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b1skit
15th Jun 2013, 17:02
Hi all!

As some of you may already know, last week Eidos-Montreal invited a group of community attendees from around the world to join us at E3 2013.

Generally, the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) is restricted to members of the game industry and media. However, it was important to everybody at Eidos-Montreal that it wasn't just members of the game industry elite who got to have all the fun, we wanted our most dedicated, hardworking community members to be able to meet the team and spend some time with us - and most importantly, get their hands on controls and actually PLAY the game!

These guys got full access to Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut - including interview slots with key members of the core development team, behind the scenes access plus double the hands on gameplay time that was allocated to anybody else who saw the game. We took special care to ensure that these guys got to experience everything we had to share, to ensure they would be fully equipped to answer any questions that you might have on what the world has seen so far of the game.

Now, the gang is back from the show and they’ll be visiting this thread daily to answer any questions you have about what they saw of Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut and their experience at E3. As the thread title suggest, as them anything!

Please keep this thread on topic with your questions about Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut and the E3 experience. Any off topic posts will be merged or deleted as necessary to ensure that the information contained in this thread is easily readable accessible to all.

I've also created mirrored threads for Thief (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=1927203#post1927203)and Deus Ex: The Fall (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?p=1927209#post1927209) - Check them out!

Our community attendees for E3 2013 were:

John (USA)
Forum Handle: Jerion http://forums.eidosgames.com/member.php?u=95395

Lucy (UK)
Forum Handle: Spyhopping http://forums.eidosgames.com/member.php?u=92302

Nate (USA)
Forum Handle: Master Taffer http://forums.eidosgames.com/member.php?u=124691

Andrew (UK)
Forum Handle: Ashpolt http://forums.eidosgames.com/member.php?u=113585

Sergey (RU)
Forum Handle: Acid Burn http://forums.eidosgames.com/member.php?u=92350

We’ll maintain this thread, and keep a summary of your questions and answers combined in the following post. So let’s get to it – ask them anything!

b1skit
15th Jun 2013, 17:03
(FYI - This post will be populated by the community - b1skit simply made the original post as a placeholder)


Questions Answered:

A commonly asked question is: “When will it be out and how much will it cost?”

Price, delivery method and release date for the Director’s Cut is undecided at this point. It will be coming to PC, Mac, Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii U.


There was an E3 vid where the DC showed the Wii U controller on the screen while the game was playing. Was this done for presentation purposes or does the Wii U controller actually pop up on the lower left corner and stay there?

Master Taffer:

This was just presentation purposes so you could see both screens in the E3 vid. During the actual game the controller screen remains on the controller.



How did the game look compared to the previous version?

How was the AI?

Jerion:

Shaders were improved across the board, so it looks incrementally better. Compared against the vanilla 360 and PS3 versions the Wii U edition looks better, but the resolution and AA capabilities of the Wii U don't come close to what a PC can do. When the Director's Cut hits the PC, it will be the best looking of the lot.

AI is somewhat improved to be a bit more dynamic, intelligent and in a some cases more aggressive than in the vanilla versions.


How about prerendered cutscenes? Are they still low resolution and three times darker than the rest of the game?

Jerion:

They only had the Wii U version on tap, so in terms of resolution there was little noticeable difference. The cutscenes appeared identical to the old versions, but the game actually appears to cover a wider range of light and dark thanks to the improved shaders, so it looks closer to the cutscenes now.



Did you get any sense of the Tyrants being more fleshed out? I'm not talking about the boss battles themselves - those seem vastly improved (yay!)

I'm talking about actually getting to know who they are before we duel them all to the death. I can't even remember the female Tyrant's name off the top of my head - she was that much of a non-entity in the original game. Were there any additional references/emails/conversations that would give us a better idea of exactly who it is Adam is hunting down?

Jerion:

The DC edition does not alter the story, instead focusing on other things like graphics, level design and developer commentary. So if you want more on the Tyrants, for the known future Deus Ex: The Fall is where you'll find it. That said, The Missing Link did expand on Namir a tiny bit more through emails, and it is now integrated into the base game. So if you didn't play The Missing Link, the Director’s Cut will offer something new in this regard.


So the WiiU has the controller screen, PS has the vita, and the xbox has smartglass. What does the PC use? Is there any kind of tablet or phone integration so that PC users can get the same functionality as the other systems get from attached touch screen devices?

Jerion:

All the touchscreen does on the Wii U is serve as a secondary screen where things like the hacking display, inventory and such are placed (some Wii U-specific tools are also accessed through it). In translating the Director's Cut to the PC, you won't actually be losing anything, it'll be accessible as before with a mouse.



I've heard there would be changes/improvements to the AA but wasn't sure if that was specific to consoles. The current PC options are all just post-process injections, filters that make things blurry so the aliasing is less noticeable. Will the DC have real AA on the PC?

Jerion:

I didn't get any technical details about AA implementations, but it was mentioned as a talking point for the Wii U version so I can assume that there is something new on that front.


About the boss fights: Are there changes to the fight with zhao yun ru? I've seen video of the changes to Barrett and assumed Federova and Namir would see changes as well although I guess it would be good to get a confirmation on them as well. Was any of the content in Missing Link changed?

Jerion:

That's actually a good question, one I don't think we thought to ask. Changes there would be minor- they are taking the lessons learned in TML (like the boss fight) and applying them to the rest of the game.

Far as boss fights go, the fights have all been revamped. We didn't get a look at the final fight but it has probably seen some improvements as well.


One thing I noticed playing through The Missing Link was that by the end I was still quite a bit behind in terms of unlocked augmentations compared to how much had been unlocked when I first climbed in the pod. How does the missing link 'factory reset' work now that the DLC has been integrated into the main game?

Jerion:

I'm honestly not sure about that. We didn't get a look into that portion of the game and the interview was mostly focused on The Fall, so I can't give you an answer.


Do you have a chance to discuss with devs this Namir one punch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I) strategy? Is it bug or feature? Is it still there after they revamped that boss fight?

Jerion:

The takedown trick was an exploit and has been fixed. What a shame. :(


When i was playing Deus Ex HR I noticed that almost all NPC animations (during dialogues) were looping a lot. Like if the gestures of the npc's were repeating every few seconds and was kinda awkward and breaking the immersion for me.

Did you fix this aspect in the Directors Cut and made it more realistic and less puppet-like?

Ashpolt:

While the Director's Cut has received an overall presentation upgrade, this is mainly in the shaders and textures. As far as I'm aware, the animations are still the same, except where they're introduced new animations for the expanded boss fights.


Price point is an important question. Like many others, I purchased the special edition of the game at full price on Steam and the Missing Link DLC as well. There's no way I'm paying full price for what's essentially a patch.

A few questions that pop to my head:

1. When you say the graphics have been improved, how much are we talking here? The vanilla version did not look too good, even with DX11 and maxed out settings on PC. Have the models and textures been redone to make it look like a game from this decade?

2. NPCs used to glitch and float around during cutscenes. Has this been fixed?

3. Have the FMV cutscenes been improved at all? They were very low-res in the original.

4. Has the story been extended in any way, with the exception of the DLC integration?

5. I remember the voice acting was awful, especially for the Shanghai NPCs. Any chance they've improved any of that?

6. Any new music from Michael McCann?

Ashpolt:

1. The overall look of the game isn't radically different, but the whole lot has been brought up to the level that we saw in The Missing Link. It's a noticeable upgrade, but not a radical one.

2. I can honestly say I never encountered this bug in the 65+ hours I spent on DXHR, and nor did I encounter it in the time I spent playing the Director's Cut, so...maybe?

3. I think the colour balance has improved a bit (they were really dark in the original release!) and I certainly didn't feel like they were as low res before, but that might simply be because I was playing on a 1080p screen rather than my home 2560 x 1440 monitor, so the comparative drop was less.

4. Nope. This is more of a coat of polish than an expansion.

5. We didn't get to see the Shanghai section in our demo, but the voice acting in the section we did play was identical, so I'd guess not.

6. Not as far as I'm aware, but it is confirmed that McCann has provided some new tracks for Deus Ex: The Fall if you'd like to hear some more of his work.[/QUOTE]


Will we see any of the locations added for this outing that were not included the first time around such as the Montreal city hub?

Ashpolt:

No. Other than the re-done boss fights, there is no new content in this game: it's an enhanced version rather than an expansion or remake. They've improved on Human Revolution, but not added to it.



Is it true that the Director's Cut includes all the DLCs including TML and the Explosive Mission / Tactical Enhancement?

Ashpolt:

It certainly includes The Missing Link, which is now worked into the main game rather than only being playable as an "aside". We didn't ask about the smaller DLCs - Tong's Rescue, Explose Mission / Tactical Enhancement, etc - but given that this is the "ultimate" version of DXHR, I would strongly expect they'll be in there.


Do we HAVE to have a PS Vita or a tablet to play the Director's Cut on the PS3 or PC?

Ashpolt:

No, if you don't have a Vita / tablet the game will play just fine without them, the option's just there for those who want it.



(1) They say DC has features like a better Energy Regen system. How exactly is it different from the vanilla version? Does all the batteries recharge over time?

(2) They also say there's a New Game Plus mode. Did you guys get to try it out? If you did, exactly which stats are carried over to the new game? Is the difficulty the same as before?


Ashpolt:

Are you taking this information from the audio interview that was posted on here yesterday? If so, in both cases we were talking about The Fall here rather than Director's Cut. In The Fall though, the difference with the energy system is that you can upgrade to have two batteries recharge over time instead of one, and in New Game + your weapons, augs and XP carry over. They didn't mention a change in difficulty level IIRC.


(1) Are the iron sights of the weapons still misaligned after attaching a laser sight and then aiming?

(2) Are the character models changed a little? I looked at this shot (http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/8/82063/2496813-ss7.jpg).

(3) Will the DC be available on Steam?

(4) Can you switch to third person (http://s18.postimg.org/s0pbyulyh/2496814_ss6.jpg
)?

Can you get the Plasma Rifle early in the game?

Ashpolt:

1) I don't think I picked up a laser sight in the demo I played. To be honest I never really noticed this issue in the base game either. Not saying it wasn't there, just never noticed it.

2) The character models are the same as far as I'm aware, but the lighting and various other effects have been improved, which means the overall look of everything in the game world is somewhat better.

3) Pricing and distribution of the DC is still to be confirmed, but...yeah, you can be pretty confident it'll be on Steam.

4) No more or less than you could in the base game.

5) Very unlikely. The plasma rifle is an end game weapon, and getting it early would severely unbalance the game.



Oh, and probably the biggest issue of the game, how is the inventory management now? Do grenades etc stack now, how high does everything stack etc?

Ashpolt:

As far as I'm aware the stack sizes in the inventory remain unchanged. This was a design decision intended to force you to really think about what you kept with you, and I doubt they'd want to backtrack on that.



Does the Director's Cut have any new augmentations?

Ashpolt:

Nope. It's "Human Revolution but better", rather than "Human Revolution plus more".


Can you give details on the changes to level design and enemy AI?

Spyhopping:

For my first hand experience in changes to the AI- it was limited. We played a small slice of the Director's Cut, and I attempted to avoid interactions with the enemies for most of the demo. As I approached the boss battle with Barrett I snuck past most of the guards, and they seemed to respond to my sneaky play through in a similar way in which I've become accustomed to.

After a chaotic escape from some guards after I alerted them by accidentally throwing a grenade, (yes, I know) I got to the boss fight feeling so much happier that the level design had changed. You are able to approach it from a more varied angle which certainly suits my lighter play style as I usually can't compete with a head-on assault. I launched myself up a ladder, and into a vent; although Barrett stayed on the lower floor, he didn't stop trying to shred me on the other side of some wire mesh. Boss fights were my number one gripe with HR, and I'm really glad they've sorted them out here. I'm intrigued as to how the fights with Namir and Fedorova will have changed.


So, the level design is noticeably different; as in, it's not just an extra room here or an extra corridor there, it's actually genuinely different? That's nice to know, cos as much as I love playing HR through it'd be nice to have something new to explore.

Jerion:

The level designs have apparently seen some tweaking in many places, but far and away the most drastic changes are to be found in the boss fights. The constraints here are a bit interesting; they have to make the environments match the pre-rendered cutscenes, but also expand them so that gameplay is more flexible than before. I rather like how they tackled this challenge in the Barrett fight. If you hadn't seen the vanilla version, you wouldn't think anything was amiss when going from the cutscene to the revamped version of the "arena". Yet they've doubled the amount of playable area.

68_pie
15th Jun 2013, 17:08
Will it be available for free?

HERESY
15th Jun 2013, 17:19
There was an E3 vid where the DC showed the Wii U controller on the screen while the game was playing. Was this done for presentation purposes or does the Wii U controller actually pop up on the lower left corner and stay there?

MasterTaffer
15th Jun 2013, 17:23
There was an E3 vid where the DC showed the Wii U controller on the screen while the game was playing. Was this done for presentation purposes or does the Wii U controller actually pop up on the lower left corner and stay there?

This was just presentation purposes so you could see both screens in the E3 vid. During the actual game the controller screen remains on the controller.

HERESY
15th Jun 2013, 17:32
This was just presentation purposes so you could see both screens in the E3 vid. During the actual game the controller screen remains on the controller.

Thanks! When the DC was first shown I said that was the case, however, the E3 vid had me confused because everything was in sync with Adams movements.

How did the game look compared to the previous version?

How was the AI?

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 17:34
How did the game look compared to the previous version?

How was the AI?

Shaders were improved across the board, so it looks incrementally better. Compared against the vanilla 360 and PS3 versions it looks better, but the resolution and AA capabilities of the Wii U version don't come close to what a PC can do. When the Director's Cut hits the PC, it will be the best looking of the lot.

AI is somewhat improved to be a bit more dynamic, intelligent and in a some cases more aggressive than in the vanilla versions.

HERESY
15th Jun 2013, 17:41
Shaders were improved across the board, so it looks incrementally better. Compared against the vanilla 360 and PS3 versions it looks better, but the resolution and AA capabilities of the Wii U version don't come close to what a PC can do. When the Director's Cut hits the PC, it will be the best looking of the lot.

AI is somewhat improved to be a bit more dynamic, intelligent and in a some cases more aggressive than in the vanilla versions.

:thumb:

It seems like you all had a fun time at E3 so can you shed some light about the overall experience? Also, was there anything, game or hardware, that caught you off guard at E3?

USER47
15th Jun 2013, 17:47
How about prerendered cutscenes? Are they still low resolution and three times darker than the rest of the game?

FantasticMrDix
15th Jun 2013, 18:14
Is there a release date for the Wii U version?

Will the 360/PS3 version have separate Achievements/Trophies to the original? (It appears in the Achievement/Trophy list as a different game, Arkham Asylum GOTY style)

:)

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 18:32
How about prerendered cutscenes? Are they still low resolution and three times darker than the rest of the game?

They only had the Wii U version on tap, so in terms of resolution there was little noticeable difference. The Cutscenes appeared identical to the old versions, but the game actually appears to cover a wider range of light and dark thanks to the improved shaders, so it looks closer to the cutscenes now.

Pinky_Powers
15th Jun 2013, 18:50
When the Director's Cut hits the PC, it will be the best looking of the lot.

Was there word on this being a thing that might actually happen?

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 19:03
Was there word on this being a thing that might actually happen?

Not yet, that hasn't quite been nailed down. The decision to take it to multiple platforms has made the release date uncertain.

Pillowman
15th Jun 2013, 19:29
First:

Thank you all so much! This thread is terrific. I've been crossing my fingers for a while for a director's cut. Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Second:

Did you get any sense of the Tyrants being more fleshed out? I'm not talking about the boss battles themselves - those seem vastly improved (yay!)

I'm talking about actually getting to know who they are before we duel them all to the death. I can't even remember the female Tyrant's name off the top of my head - she was that much of a non-entity in the original game. Were there any additional references/emails/conversations that would give us a better idea of exactly who it is Adam is hunting down?

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 19:38
First: Thank you all so much! This thread is terrific. I've been crossing my fingers for a while for a director's cut. Can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Second, question:

Did you get any sense of the Tyrants being more fleshed out? I'm not talking about the boss battles themselves - those seem vastly improved (yay!)

I'm talking about actually getting to know who they are before we duel them all to the death. I can't even remember the female Tyrant's name off the top of my head - she was that much of a non-entity in the original game. Were there any additional references/emails/conversations that would give us a better idea of exactly who it is Adam is hunting down?

Oh! I'm sorry, I was thinking that this was in The Fall thread. Discount my (now deleted) reply. The DC edition does not really alter the story (especially the parts with acting), instead focusing on other things like graphics, level design and developer commentary. So if you want more on the Tyrants, for the known future The Fall is where you'll find it.

That said, The Missing Link did expand on Namir a little bit more through emails, and it is now integrated into the base game. So if you didn't play The Missing Link, this will offer something new in this regard.

tetracycloide
15th Jun 2013, 19:48
So the WiiU has the controler screen, PS has the vita, and the xbox has smartglass. What does the PC use? Is there any kind of tablet or phone integration so that PC users can get the same functionality as the other systems get from attached touch screen devices?

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 19:54
So the WiiU has the controler screen, PS has the vita, and the xbox has smartglass. What does the PC use? Is there any kind of tablet or phone integration so that PC users can get the same functionality as the other systems get from attached touch screen devices?

All the touchscreen does on the Wii U is serve as a secondary screen where things like the hacking display, inventory and such are placed (some Wii U-specific tools are also accessed through it). In translating the Director's Cut to the PC, you won't actually be losing anything, it'll be accessible as before with a mouse. This is pure speculation on my part, but it could end up that there might companion apps (such as for iOS or Android) that could replicate the platform-agnostic features though.

tetracycloide
15th Jun 2013, 20:01
I know the secondary screen is just another way of presenting the same information (hacking, inventory, and such) but the idea of having the map up on a separate screen and/or device, for example, is pretty nice. I also really want a touch interface for the hacking mini-game. It seems like it was built with one in mind and navigating the nodes would be much faster than a mouse or a gamepad.

I've heard there would be changes/improvements to the AA but wasn't sure if that was specific to consoles. The current PC options are all just post-process injections, filters that make things blurry so the aliasing is less noticeable. Will the DC have real AA on the PC?

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 20:14
I didn't get any technical details about AA implementations, but it was mentioned as a talking point so I can assume that there is something new on that front.

tetracycloide
15th Jun 2013, 20:25
About the boss fights: Are there changes to the fight with zhao yun ru? I've seen video of the changes to Barrett and assumed Federova and Namir would see changes as well although I guess it would be good to get a confirmation on them as well. Was any of the content in Missing Link changed?

68_pie
15th Jun 2013, 20:26
Will it be available for free?

Was price-point discussed at all? You can say you don't know if you don't know.

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 20:37
Price point is still being decided, so there is no clear answer on that.


About the boss fights: Are there changes to the fight with zhao yun ru? I've seen video of the changes to Barrett and assumed Federova and Namir would see changes as well although I guess it would be good to get a confirmation on them as well. Was any of the content in Missing Link changed?

That's actually a good question, one I don't think we thought to ask. Changes there would be minor- they are taking the lessons learned in TML (like the boss fight) and applying them to the rest of the game.

Far as boss fights go, the fights have all been revamped. We didn't get a look at the final fight but it has probably seen some improvements as well.

tetracycloide
15th Jun 2013, 20:51
One thing I noticed playing through The Missing Link was that by the end I was still quite a bit behind in terms of unlocked augmentations compared to how much had been unlocked when I first climbed in the pod. How does the missing link 'factory reset' work now that the DLC has been integrated into the main game?

Thanks so much for all your responses Jerion!

Jerion
15th Jun 2013, 21:05
One thing I noticed playing through The Missing Link was that by the end I was still quite a bit behind in terms of unlocked augmentations compared to how much had been unlocked when I first climbed in the pod. How does the missing link 'factory reset' work now that the DLC has been integrated into the main game?

Thanks so much for all your responses Jerion!

Happy to do it!

I'm honestly not sure about that. We didn't get a look into that portion of the game and the interview was mostly focused on The Fall, so I can't give you an answer. I'll double check with Adam though, I'm sure we can get a clear answer to this. :)

Once the others have had a chance to rest, I'm sure Spyhopping will have plenty to say and you won't be able to get Ashpolt to stop talking about anything!

Spyhopping
15th Jun 2013, 21:31
Still travelling home, but will get involved here soon!

Ashpolt
15th Jun 2013, 22:06
I'm home now (at last! - for those who don't have us on Facebook or Twitter, spyhopping and I had travel issues and ended up having to stay overnight in Boston). Looks like Jerion and Master Taffer have already answered all of the questions so far, but I'll be online for the next couple of hours so fire away!

AlexOfSpades
15th Jun 2013, 23:55
I'm home now (at last! - for those who don't have us on Facebook or Twitter, spyhopping and I had travel issues and ended up having to stay overnight in Boston). Looks like Jerion and Master Taffer have already answered all of the questions so far, but I'll be online for the next couple of hours so fire away!


Did you have to sign an NDA or anything else really?
When are you becoming a mod?

Jerion
16th Jun 2013, 00:02
Did you have to sign an NDA or anything else really?
When are you becoming a mod?


No and Seven.

Ashpolt
16th Jun 2013, 00:03
Did you have to sign an NDA or anything else really?
When are you becoming a mod?


-Nope
-Probably never

Those were quick answers! Any more questions?

68_pie
16th Jun 2013, 00:04
How was E3 in general?

AlexOfSpades
16th Jun 2013, 00:11
-Nope
-Probably never

Those were quick answers! Any more questions?


Did you get to call Jerion "Jerry" ? If so, how did he react?
Did you ask JF Dugas if he has ever seen the mustache laugh gif?

Ashpolt
16th Jun 2013, 00:16
Did you get to call Jerion "Jerry" ? If so, how did he react?
Did you ask JF Dugas if he has ever seen the mustache laugh gif?


-I just called him Jerry via Skype. His response was "No, Andy. No."
-I didn't ask if he'd seen that, but did hear The Laugh itself. it's even more evil in person. Especially when he has his hands around your throat at the time.

Wintermist
16th Jun 2013, 06:53
Are the character animations when you're in dialogue fixed, as in people seeming to move and spasm too much, making it all seem very unnatural?

Here's an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwC90GMpwkw

Pillowman
16th Jun 2013, 15:39
Any word on the XP/Augmentation balancing? TML aside, does it still seem like we'll be able to (essentially) have all the augs by the end of the game? Or will we really have to choose carefully with our praxis points this time around?

Follow-up: did they fix that hacking aug that served genuinely no purpose? The one that let you see the content of a data cluster while hacking?

KenTWOu
16th Jun 2013, 16:42
Do you have a chance to discuss with devs this Namir one punch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I) strategy? Is it bug or feature? Is it still there after they revamped that boss fight?

Jerion
16th Jun 2013, 17:38
Do you have a chance to discuss with devs this Namir one punch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I) strategy? Is it bug or feature? Is it still there after they revamped that boss fight?

The takedown trick was an exploit and has been fixed. What a shame. :(

Shezmen
16th Jun 2013, 19:12
Hi, i have a question:

when i was playing Deus Ex HR i noticed that almost all NPC animations (during dialogues) where looping a lot. Like if the gestures of the npc's where repeating every few second and was kinda awkward and breaking the immersion for me.

Did you fix this aspect in the Directors Cut and made it more realistic and less puppet-like?

Thanks.

Shez

gracemillian
16th Jun 2013, 19:32
Most important question - I bought Deus EX HR on day one on Steam. Will I be able to upgrade to DC or will I have to pay the price of a new game?

furydeath
16th Jun 2013, 20:53
Think the main one for me is how will PC get it? Free, DLC, fully buy as a new game?

Other then that after speed running the game for a bit did they fix the glitches like box jumping or skiping the first part of China and going right into TYM? :P

and awww just saw the post about the Namir punch XD

Captain Mazda
16th Jun 2013, 21:01
Price point is an important question. Like many others, I purchased the special edition of the game at full price on Steam and the Missing Link DLC as well. There's no way I'm paying full price for what's essentially a patch.

A few questions that pop to my head:

1. When you say the graphics have been improved, how much are we talking here? The vanilla version did not look too good, even with DX11 and maxed out settings on PC. Have the models and textures been redone to make it look like a game from this decade?

2. NPCs used to glitch and float around during cutscenes. Has this been fixed?

3. Have the FMV cutscenes been improved at all? They were very low-res in the original.

4. Has the story been extended in any way, with the exception of the DLC integration?

5. I remember the voice acting was awful, especially for the Shanghai NPCs. Any chance they've improved any of that?

6. Any new music from Michael McCann?

And just to top it off, I *DID* ask for this. I actually cared about the story and the characters when I first played DX:HR because the writing was fantastic. It's just a shame the graphics, animations and voiceovers kept breaking the immersion and atmosphere. If the developers had been given more time to improve what was already there and ensure that most of the game's content didn't have to be cut in order to make the release date, DX:HR could've been a legendary game. I'm hoping the DC is a step in the right direction, because far too many games are castrated by publisher deadlines and end up being a shell of what they were supposed to be. (Tomb Raider Underworld anyone?)

Ashpolt
16th Jun 2013, 22:39
when i was playing Deus Ex HR i noticed that almost all NPC animations (during dialogues) where looping a lot. Like if the gestures of the npc's where repeating every few second and was kinda awkward and breaking the immersion for me.

Did you fix this aspect in the Directors Cut and made it more realistic and less puppet-like?

While the Director's Cut has received an overall presentation upgrade, this is mainly in the shaders and textures. As far as I'm aware, the animations are still the same, except where they're introduced new animations for the expanded boss fights.


Most important question - I bought Deus EX HR on day one on Steam. Will I be able to upgrade to DC or will I have to pay the price of a new game?


Think the main one for me is how will PC get it? Free, DLC, fully buy as a new game?


Price point is an important question. Like many others, I purchased the special edition of the game at full price on Steam and the Missing Link DLC as well. There's no way I'm paying full price for what's essentially a patch.

As you'll hear during our audio interview with James Wright and Jean-Francois Dugas, (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138056) the price structure is still being decided on. We all gave the feedback (outside of that interview) that we wouldn't pay full price for this, but would pay a reasonable DLC-level price, and that seemed to be what they were expecting. I would expect it'll be available in two flavours: full price, full game release for those who don't already own DXHR, and cheaper add-on for those who do.


A few questions that pop to my head:

1. When you say the graphics have been improved, how much are we talking here? The vanilla version did not look too good, even with DX11 and maxed out settings on PC. Have the models and textures been redone to make it look like a game from this decade?

2. NPCs used to glitch and float around during cutscenes. Has this been fixed?

3. Have the FMV cutscenes been improved at all? They were very low-res in the original.

4. Has the story been extended in any way, with the exception of the DLC integration?

5. I remember the voice acting was awful, especially for the Shanghai NPCs. Any chance they've improved any of that?

6. Any new music from Michael McCann?

1. The overall look of the game isn't radically different, but the whole lot has been brought up to the level that we saw in The Missing Link. It's a noticeable upgrade, but not a radical one.

2. I can honestly say I never encountered this bug in the 65+ hours I spent on DXHR, and nor did I encounter it in the time I spent playing the Director's Cut, so...maybe?

3. I think the colour balance has improved a bit (they were really dark in the original release!) and I certainly didn't feel like they were as low res before, but that might simply be because I was playing on a 1080p screen rather than my home 2560 x 1440 monitor, so the comparative drop was less.

4. Nope. This is more of a coat of polish than an expansion.

5. We didn't get to see the Shanghai section in our demo, but the voice acting in the section we did play was identical, so I'd guess not.

6. Not as far as I'm aware, but it is confirmed that McCann has provided some new tracks for Deus Ex: The Fall if you'd like to hear some more of his work.

68_pie
16th Jun 2013, 23:44
We all gave the feedback (outside of that interview) that we wouldn't pay full price for this, but would pay a reasonable DLC-level price

You might. There's plenty of us who wouldn't pay any price.

Ashpolt
16th Jun 2013, 23:46
You might. There's plenty of us who wouldn't pay any price.

Well I feel you may be disappointed then. I don't think a small-ish cost for this is unreasonable.

Jerion
16th Jun 2013, 23:53
Well I feel you may be disappointed then. I don't think a small-ish cost for this is unreasonable.

Ditto. A low price for an upgrade would be reasonable to me.

Agent Denton
16th Jun 2013, 23:55
Will we see any of the locations added for this outing that were not included the first time around such as the Montreal city hub?

HERESY
17th Jun 2013, 00:03
I'd pay up to $29.99 for it.

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2013, 00:06
Will we see any of the locations added for this outing that were not included the first time around such as the Montreal city hub?

No. Other than the re-done boss fights, there is no new content in this game: it's an enhanced version rather than an expansion or remake. They've improved on Human Revolution, but not added to it.

Agent Denton
17th Jun 2013, 00:19
No. Other than the re-done boss fights, there is no new content in this game: it's an enhanced version rather than an expansion or remake. They've improved on Human Revolution, but not added to it.

Thank you for the quick answer! :) I'm a sucker so I'll be buying either way.

MasterTaffer
17th Jun 2013, 00:36
Thank you for the quick answer! :) I'm a sucker so I'll be buying either way.

It think "passionate" would be a better descriptor for you. ;)

HERESY
17th Jun 2013, 01:20
I have another question, not really about the DC but more about your experience at E3 and what you saw from next gen consoles.

1. How would you describe your E3 experience as a whole?

2. I know it's early and companies haven't mastered the hardware yet, but are next gen graphics that far of a leap from this gen? For example, could Thief had been put on 360/ps3?

Jerion
17th Jun 2013, 01:30
I have another question, not really about the DC but more about your experience at E3 and what you saw from next gen consoles.

1. How would you describe your E3 experience as a whole?

2. I know it's early and companies haven't mastered the hardware yet, but are next gen graphics that far of a leap from this gen? For example, could Thief had been put on 360/ps3?

Steady iteration. What we in computer land have been used to in the mid-to-high end is now becoming standard for consoles.

Overall E3 was a loud, energetic, bass-heavy cacophony of smoke, lights, long queues and game trailers. Bit of an overwhelming experience, really. Our focus on the teams at EM meant that we were tied to the SE booth for a big chunk of the trip, but overall it was a terrific experience as much for seeing one another in person as for the event itself.

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2013, 01:31
1. How would you describe your E3 experience as a whole?

2. I know it's early and companies haven't mastered the hardware yet, but are next gen graphics that far of a leap from this gen? For example, could Thief had been put on 360/ps3?

1. E3 was busy, noisy, flashy, exhausting, overwhelming, but overall amazing. A constant assault on the eyeballs and eardrums, but in the best possible way.

2. So far most of the games for the next gen look only slightly better than the current gen, but the same thing happened with the leap from PS2 / Xbox to PS3 / 360: look at an early title like Perfect Dark Zero and it's nowhere near representative of what the consoles were capable of. So while the launch titles don't show a huge leap graphically from the current gen, I'm sure we'll see better soon enough. There are a few notably good looking next gen games already though, and the one that immediately springs to mind for me is Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag. That game is gorgeous.

~Psychotic~
17th Jun 2013, 03:13
You might. There's plenty of us who wouldn't pay any price.

A small cost would be fine to justify it but I don't feel it can be higher than $15-20 USD.

Other games might charge that much for what is essentially very little but I consider those complete rip-offs. As great as the new content is I just don't feel it justified paying standard DLC pricing for what is actually very little (new shaders/textures and boss fights are really the highlights here).

MasterTaffer
17th Jun 2013, 03:26
I have another question, not really about the DC but more about your experience at E3 and what you saw from next gen consoles.

1. How would you describe your E3 experience as a whole?

2. I know it's early and companies haven't mastered the hardware yet, but are next gen graphics that far of a leap from this gen? For example, could Thief had been put on 360/ps3?

1. It was a complete blast. I'm a game design student, so being able to sit down with developers and talk about game design who also happen to be psychotic Thief fans (seriously, Emanuel Garcia could put everyone on the board here to shame with his knowledge of Thief lore) was easily my favorite part of the trip. Sure, being able to attend E3, walk the floor, see presentations, and get hands on with various games was great. I also ran into a few internet celebrities like Egoraptor, Robert Khoo from Penny Arcade, and the Achievement Hunter guys.




Having the current honor of playing more Thief than anyone else in the world except the EM guys still blows my mind. But my favorite parts of the trip were easily the Q&A session, talking with Nico Cantin while we walked the floor, and the community mixer after the final day. It was about as memorable a first E3 as someone could get.


2. Thief's graphics are impressive for a Pre-Alpha. Could a current gen system handle it? Yes and no. It could display the visuals your seeing (with a little struggling), but it would lack the processing power to allow Thief's systemic AI and other processes to function alongside said graphics.

CodenameD
17th Jun 2013, 05:22
I'm an avid PC gamer and a longtime Deus Ex fan. Previously knowing the perfected Director's Cut is left out from PC I was really upset. After hearing that The Fall is mobile only I was disappointed even more.

The news of the director's cut getting released on the PC really restored my faith in Eidos Montreal and the belief they still consider PC (Deus Ex's birth platform) gamers like me, unlike many other devs/pubs out there.

I'll be getting the Director's Cut even though I have already purchased Human Revolution once. Heck I'm so happy I might even try and play The Fall.

I've questions though, is it true that the Director's Cut includes all the DLCs including TML and the Explosive Mission / Tactical Enhancement?

Also are there any words that the DC will be available as retail?

sny
17th Jun 2013, 06:24
Do we HAVE to have a PS Vita or a tablet to play the Director's Cut on the PS3 or PC?

KenTWOu
17th Jun 2013, 07:58
The takedown trick was an exploit and has been fixed. What a shame. :(
Shame, indeed :( I even consider this as a huge reason to make Director's Cut update completely optional. But knowing Steam game library and update system, this might not be the case. I really hope they will at least mention this cool exploit in their commentaries :)

kivan69
17th Jun 2013, 09:07
I like to know if DEUS EX HR Directors cut for PS3 will be compatible with normal edition Saves. Tks

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2013, 09:36
I've questions though, is it true that the Director's Cut includes all the DLCs including TML and the Explosive Mission / Tactical Enhancement?

Also are there any words that the DC will be available as retail?

-It certainly includes The Missing Link, which is now worked into the main game rather than only being playable as an "aside". We didn't ask about the smaller DLCs - Tong's Rescue, Explose Mission / Tactical Enhancement, etc - but given that this is the "ultimate" version of DXHR, I would strongly expect they'll be in there.

-The DC will obviously be available at retail for WiiU, as there's no previous version of the game on that platform to "upgrade" via DLC. For other platforms the pricing and retail plans are still to be confirmed, but I would expect there will be a boxed retail copy of the full Director's Cut, as well as a downloadable add-on for those who already own the base game.


Do we HAVE to have a PS Vita or a tablet to play the Director's Cut on the PS3 or PC?

No, if you don't have a Vita / tablet the game will play just fine without them, the option's just there for those who want it.


I like to know if DEUS EX HR Directors cut for PS3 will be compatible with normal edition Saves. Tks

I wouldn't imagine so. Now that TML is integrated into the main game, any saves from after that point would be incompatible with the Director's Cut, so it's unlikely saves from before that point will work either.

CodenameD
17th Jun 2013, 09:57
-It certainly includes The Missing Link, which is now worked into the main game rather than only being playable as an "aside". We didn't ask about the smaller DLCs - Tong's Rescue, Explose Mission / Tactical Enhancement, etc - but given that this is the "ultimate" version of DXHR, I would strongly expect they'll be in there.

-The DC will obviously be available at retail for WiiU, as there's no previous version of the game on that platform to "upgrade" via DLC. For other platforms the pricing and retail plans are still to be confirmed, but I would expect there will be a boxed retail copy of the full Director's Cut, as well as a downloadable add-on for those who already own the base game.



No, if you don't have a Vita / tablet the game will play just fine without them, the option's just there for those who want it.



I wouldn't imagine so. Now that TML is integrated into the main game, any saves from after that point would be incompatible with the Director's Cut, so it's unlikely saves from before that point will work either.

Thanks a ton Ashpolt! :)

Inability to port save games kinda sucks but I wouldn't mind starting over with this.

A few more questions comes to mind -

(1) They say DC has features like a better Energy Regen system. How exactly is it different from the vanilla version? Does all the batteries recharge over time?

(2) They also say there's a New Game Plus mode. Did you guys get to try it out? If you did, exactly which stats are carried over to the new game? Is the difficulty the same as before?

I'm talking about the PC version if that makes any difference from the other platform ones.

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2013, 10:10
(1) They say DC has features like a better Energy Regen system. How exactly is it different from the vanilla version? Does all the batteries recharge over time?

(2) They also say there's a New Game Plus mode. Did you guys get to try it out? If you did, exactly which stats are carried over to the new game? Is the difficulty the same as before?

Are you taking this information from the audio interview that was posted on here yesterday? If so, in both cases we were talking about The Fall here rather than Director's Cut. In The Fall though, the difference with the energy system is that you can upgrade to have two batteries recharge over time instead of one, and in New Game + your weapons, augs and XP carry over. They didn't mention a change in difficulty level IIRC.

CodenameD
17th Jun 2013, 10:32
Are you taking this information from the audio interview that was posted on here yesterday? If so, in both cases we were talking about The Fall here rather than Director's Cut. In The Fall though, the difference with the energy system is that you can upgrade to have two batteries recharge over time instead of one, and in New Game + your weapons, augs and XP carry over. They didn't mention a change in difficulty level IIRC.

Well here it says The Director's Cut (WiiU) has those features. So I was just confirming-

http://www.giantbomb.com/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut/3030-42021/

Also here-

http://tech2.in.com/news/gaming/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut-coming-to-all-platforms/876320

68_pie
17th Jun 2013, 10:34
(2) They also say there's a New Game Plus mode. Did you guys get to try it out? If you did, exactly which stats are carried over to the new game? Is the difficulty the same as before?

Pretty sure in the Gamespot stage demo they said that your augs would carry over in NG+. I don't think they mentioned difficulty.

CyberP
17th Jun 2013, 10:36
Recharging to two bars would be nice but takedowns would have to use up two battery slots to counter it, otherwise you could run through the game taking everyone down with ease.

Ashpolt
17th Jun 2013, 10:52
Well here it says The Director's Cut (WiiU) has those features. So I was just confirming-

http://www.giantbomb.com/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut/3030-42021/

Also here-

http://tech2.in.com/news/gaming/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut-coming-to-all-platforms/876320


Pretty sure in the Gamespot stage demo they said that your augs would carry over in NG+. I don't think they mentioned difficulty.

Well I stand corrected! This isn't something we spoke about during the interview, and obviously neither is it something I got to experience myself during the 45-minute-odd demo I played. It's definitely there in The Fall as well though, if that's of any interest to anyone.

CodenameD
17th Jun 2013, 10:53
Recharging to two bars would be nice but takedowns would have to use up two battery slots to counter it, otherwise you could run through the game taking everyone down with ease.

Well you could do that already, all you had to do was wait till a bar would recharge fully. Then wait for the patrolling enemy to approach you. All the more fun if you had Quicksilver Reflex Booster and scored 2 for 1.

If you want to revamp the difficulty however, you could suggest to add more guards to the patrol so that taking down enemies requires one to wait for a VERY long time patiently or move on.

I think recharging upto 2 bars would actually balance the feature. Because as far as I recall, the most energy exhausting move I used most of the time was the silent takedown.

CodenameD
17th Jun 2013, 12:21
I just remembered how the endings were kinda lame in the original human revolution. I'm guessing you guys didn't play that far. So we can't know if they fixed it or not.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/70312/deus-ex-human-revolution-endings-simplified-due-to-constraints

And they admit it, it was done wrong on their end. Just like the boss battles. So now that they got an opportunity to improve it, did they really do it?

If they do, I'd hope they go for The Nameless Mod style endings, ie - your path is chosen halfway through the game depending on your actions up until that point. I loved how accepting the firmware update at TYM caused you to glitch out later on.

But I guess they won't go that far to change all that. (Sign)

Shadowofzara
17th Jun 2013, 14:31
Well I feel you may be disappointed then. I don't think a small-ish cost for this is unreasonable.


Ditto. A low price for an upgrade would be reasonable to me.

I agree with this, paying anywhere from $10-$20 is not really unreasonable imo, but those who think it is are free to ***** and moan and not get the DC.

My main concern with all of this is the fact that generally, when you get the the missing link story area you will almost always have more praxis points than you get in the missing link, so assuming you actually get all your points back in the DC, ostensibly when you would normally in the missing link, then the dlc will become incredibly trivial content, then after doing all of the missing link, by the end of the game you will have all, or just a few short of all, the augments, then you can new game plus...I mean I'm all for being overpowered, but this is getting kind of ridiculous...

68_pie
17th Jun 2013, 16:15
I agree with this, paying anywhere from $10-$20 is not really unreasonable imo, but those who think it is are free to ***** and moan and not get the DC.

$20 is reasonable for minor graphical improvements and fixing the boss fights that shouldn't have been broken in the first place?


My main concern with all of this is the fact that generally, when you get the the missing link story area you will almost always have more praxis points than you get in the missing link, so assuming you actually get all your points back in the DC, ostensibly when you would normally in the missing link, then the dlc will become incredibly trivial content, then after doing all of the missing link, by the end of the game you will have all, or just a few short of all, the augments, then you can new game plus...I mean I'm all for being overpowered, but this is getting kind of ridiculous...

Considering there was enough XP in the vanilla game to unlock all augs, yes, it is a bit silly.

Hedby
17th Jun 2013, 18:02
Is Director's Cut going to be released on Mac?

lolwot
18th Jun 2013, 03:56
Was there any indication of when this will be released? The Wii-U release date was May 7th before it was delayed.

CyberP
18th Jun 2013, 04:40
Well you could do that already, all you had to do was wait till a bar would recharge fully. Then wait for the patrolling enemy to approach you. All the more fun if you had Quicksilver Reflex Booster and scored 2 for 1.

Exactly, only you could do it a hell of a lot easier. 2 guys with reflex becomes 4, 1 takedown at a time before having to hide and recharge becomes 2 and so on.

Doozerpindan
18th Jun 2013, 09:55
I didn't even know there was a DC coming out, but now that I do know, my main question is, can I beat the bosses without killing them? I mean, if I wanna play as a pacifist, it's kind of made moot when I'm forced to kill three people (The boss at the end doesn't count, she died from her own arrogant stupidity).

68_pie
18th Jun 2013, 10:20
I didn't even know there was a DC coming out, but now that I do know, my main question is, can I beat the bosses without killing them? I mean, if I wanna play as a pacifist, it's kind of made moot when I'm forced to kill three people (The boss at the end doesn't count, she died from her own arrogant stupidity).

They have to die but you don't have to be the one pulling the trigger seems to be the message.

Doozerpindan
18th Jun 2013, 11:16
They have to die but you don't have to be the one pulling the trigger seems to be the message.

*sigh* I suppose you're right, I mean they hardly deserve to live, though I would like it if the ending cutscene at least reflected how I killed them (like smashing Barrett in the face with a canister full of gas until it kills him, which I did rather than shoot him).

I tend not to really play the pacifist role all that much anyway, only did it once to get the achievement, and that's why the boss fights seemed so jarring.

Another question would be, are the bugs and glitches etc fixed in this version? In at least one area (in this case, the gang area in Detroit) one of the gang members spawns underground, and the only way to kill him is to lure him to the manhole so he looks through the wall and you can headshot him), and there's also (during a particular mission, it seems to stop when I finish the mission, I just don't know which mission it is, sorry) CTDs whenever I try to go past the basketball court in Detroit.

Jerion
18th Jun 2013, 20:56
Is Director's Cut going to be released on Mac?

I believe so, yes.

Doozerpindan
18th Jun 2013, 22:28
Have they fixed the fact that unconscious NPCs die if you happen to knock them by doing something like opening a drawer or picking up a box near them?

Spyhopping
18th Jun 2013, 23:20
Have they fixed the fact that unconscious NPCs die if you happen to knock them by doing something like opening a drawer or picking up a box near them?

Wow, that happens? I hadn't encountered that myself.

Interesting question though. I was- as most others were- aware of the merits of using hurtling fridges as lethal weapons in HR. In The Missing Link, I seem to recall that the ability for heavy objects to cut down enemies was toned down. By extension with TML as part of the Director's Cut, I'd imagine that this was applied everywhere else too. So possibly the short answer to your question is yes.

Doozerpindan
18th Jun 2013, 23:23
Wow, that happens? I hadn't encountered that myself.

Interesting question though. I was- as most others were- aware of the merits of using hurtling fridges as lethal weapons in HR. In The Missing Link, I seem to recall that the ability for heavy objects to cut down enemies was toned down. By extension with TML as part of the Director's Cut, I'd imagine that this was applied everywhere else too. So possibly the short answer to your question is yes.

Yes, yes it does. It's especially annoying if you're a loot whore like me and you have to check inside or underneath everything you come across.

Spyhopping
18th Jun 2013, 23:37
I might try and play around with that when I next start up HR.

I once thought I was a loot whore, but I was a disgrace to the name of loot whore in my recent play of Thief. My eyes were all on the big target.

MasterTaffer
19th Jun 2013, 00:00
I might try and play around with that when I next start up HR.

I once thought I was a loot whore, but I was a disgrace to the name of loot whore in my recent play of Thief. My eyes were all on the big target.

*Holding a metric ton of valuables*

It's true, she left a lot behind...

Spyhopping
19th Jun 2013, 00:06
*Holding a metric ton of valuables*

It's true, she left a lot behind...

BAH! By the time you got to the bridge it would have all burned down! ;)

MasterTaffer
19th Jun 2013, 00:09
BAH! By the time you got to the bridge it would have all burned down! ;)

I made it to the end of the bridge with six times the loot in tow.

Hang your head in shame, amateur footpad...

Pinky_Powers
19th Jun 2013, 00:55
Is the Missing Link revamped in the Directors Cut to make more sense mechanically? By that I mean, will you still lose all your Augs and have to upgrade them again? I understood this when it was a standalone, but weaving it back into the game will make this feel weird. Almost like a thematic hiccup.

FrankCSIS
19th Jun 2013, 02:34
*Holding a metric ton of valuables*

It's true, she left a lot behind...

Where does it fit, in the tight leather outfit? Don't tell me he's been hiding gold watches the Pulp Fiction Way :cool:

Pinky_Powers
19th Jun 2013, 02:44
Where does it fit, in the tight leather outfit? Don't tell me he's been hiding gold watches the Pulp Fiction Way :cool:

Never know when a guard's going to pat you down and take a percentage of your profits. The pigs!

Doozerpindan
19th Jun 2013, 04:33
Hah! You guys should see me in Skyrim, I will loot literally everything and give as much to my followers to carry as I can. I have made over one million gold doing every quest in the game and so on.

AlexOfSpades
19th Jun 2013, 11:19
Hah! You guys should see me in Skyrim, I will loot literally everything and give as much to my followers to carry as I can. I have made over one million gold doing every quest in the game and so on.

What for?

Doozerpindan
19th Jun 2013, 13:25
No particular reason except that I hate missing items/secrets/etc. In fact, it's why I wish you could return to places like Hyde Park (my favourite area in HR) to collect the items you will inevitably have to leave behind.

Darthassin
20th Jun 2013, 06:56
They said they rebalanced the game. What does it mean? Did they change the placement of items in maps for example?

EDIT: Did they change the locations of enemies?

SpecX
20th Jun 2013, 08:30
(1) Are the iron sights of the weapons still misaligned after attaching a laser sight and then aiming?

(2) Are the character models changed a little? I looked at this shot (http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/8/82063/2496813-ss7.jpg).

(3) Will the DC be available on Steam?

(4) Can you switch to third person (http://s18.postimg.org/s0pbyulyh/2496814_ss6.jpg
)?

(5) Can you get the Plasma Rifle early in the game?

Doozerpindan
20th Jun 2013, 09:16
Oh, and probably the biggest issue of the game, how is the inventory management now? Do grenades etc stack now, how high does everything stack etc?

lolwot
20th Jun 2013, 16:00
Does the Director's Cut have any new augmentations?

Ashpolt
20th Jun 2013, 16:15
They said they rebalanced the game. What does it mean? Did they change the placement of items in maps for example?

EDIT: Did they change the locations of enemies?

I've included your question just so you don't think you're being ignored, but I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that. Maybe if JF pops up again he'll be able to answer...


(1) Are the iron sights of the weapons still misaligned after attaching a laser sight and then aiming?

(2) Are the character models changed a little? I looked at this shot (http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/8/82063/2496813-ss7.jpg).

(3) Will the DC be available on Steam?

(4) Can you switch to third person (http://s18.postimg.org/s0pbyulyh/2496814_ss6.jpg
)?

(5) Can you get the Plasma Rifle early in the game?

1) I don't think I picked up a laser sight in the demo I played. To be honest I never really noticed this issue in the base game either. Not saying it wasn't there, just never noticed it.

2) The character models are the same as far as I'm aware, but the lighting and various other effects have been improved, which means the overall look of everything in the game world is somewhat better.

3) Pricing and distribution of the DC is still to be confirmed, but...yeah, you can be pretty confident it'll be on Steam.

4) No more or less than you could in the base game.

5) Very unlikely. The plasma rifle is an end game weapon, and getting it early would severely unbalance the game.


Oh, and probably the biggest issue of the game, how is the inventory management now? Do grenades etc stack now, how high does everything stack etc?

Can't agree that this was the biggest issue of the game. Wouldn't even put it in the top 5 personally. :rasp: But to answer your question, as far as I'm aware the stack sizes in the inventory remain unchanged. This was a design decision intended to force you to really think about what you kept with you, and I doubt they'd want to backtrack on that.


Does the Director's Cut have any new augmentations?

Nope. It's "Human Revolution but better", rather than "Human Revolution plus more".

Doozerpindan
20th Jun 2013, 17:59
Can you give details on the aforementioned changes to level design and enemy AI?

Spyhopping
20th Jun 2013, 19:19
Can you give details on the aforementioned changes to level design and enemy AI?

As for my first hand experience in changes to the AI- it was limited. We played a small slice of the Director's Cut, and I attempted to avoid interactions with the enemies for most of the demo. As I approached the boss battle with Barrett I snuck past most of the guards, and they seemed to respond to my sneaky play through in a similar way in which I've become accustomed to.

After a chaotic escape from some guards after I alerted them by accidentally throwing a grenade, (yes, I know) I got to the boss fight feeling so much happier that the level design had changed. You are able to approach it from a more varied angle which certainly suits my lighter play style as I usually can't compete with a head-on assault. I launched myself up a ladder, and into a vent; although Barrett stayed on the lower floor, he didn't stop trying to shred me on the other side of some wire mesh. Boss fights were my number one gripe with HR, and I'm really glad they've sorted them out here. I'm intrigued as to how the fights with Namir and Fedorova will have changed.

One thing that disappointed me was entirely down to the Wii U controller. It may have just been because I am not used to it, but the analogue sticks didn't feel very responsive. It's cool to have the hacking screen interface in your hands to interact with it in a more tactile manner, but the screen is also rather small. As a result, when I hacked in to a terminal, I couldn't really make out what was happening on the remote cameras. Additionally, I unlocked/opened a hatch or door in the boss fight, but because the screen was so small, I couldn't tell if one of the remote cameras could give me a clue as to what I'd opened! I may have completely overlooked the ability to zoom in on the interface screen, but even so it would have been nice for the interface to also display on the TV screen for a larger reference image.

However, generally speaking the Director's Cut is a slick sheen of polish over HR.

Doozerpindan
20th Jun 2013, 19:25
So, the level design is noticeably different; as in, it's not just an extra room here or an extra corridor there, it's actually genuinely different? That's nice to know, cos as much as I love playing HR through it'd be nice to have something new to explore.

Jerion
20th Jun 2013, 19:53
So, the level design is noticeably different; as in, it's not just an extra room here or an extra corridor there, it's actually genuinely different? That's nice to know, cos as much as I love playing HR through it'd be nice to have something new to explore.

The level designs have apparently seen some tweaking in many places, but far and away the most drastic changes are to be found in the boss fights. The constraints here are a bit interesting; they have to make the environments match the pre-rendered cutscenes, but also expand them so that gameplay is more flexible than before. I rather like how they tackled this challenge in the Barrett fight. If you hadn't seen the vanilla version, you wouldn't think anything was amiss when going from the cutscene to the revamped version of the "arena". Yet they've doubled the amount of playable area.



One thing that disappointed me was entirely down to the Wii U controller. It may have just been because I am not used to it, but the analogue sticks didn't feel very responsive. It's cool to have the hacking screen interface in your hands to interact with it in a more tactile manner, but the screen is also rather small. As a result, when I hacked in to a terminal, I couldn't really make out what was happening on the remote cameras. Additionally, I unlocked/opened a hatch or door in the boss fight, but because the screen was so small, I couldn't tell if one of the remote cameras could give me a clue as to what I'd opened! I may have completely overlooked the ability to zoom in on the interface screen, but even so it would have been nice for the interface to also display on the TV screen for a larger reference image.

No kidding. The ideas they've gone with for using the Wii U's touchscreen are good, but the controller itself left quite a bit to be desired. I don't know how much abuse the controllers we used had taken, but the analog sticks were half-dead by the time we got to them and the touchscreen itself was not pleasant to use.

Doozerpindan
20th Jun 2013, 20:26
Nice to hear (about the boss fights and such) and I hope you washed your hands after using the controller *shudder*

I have never gone to a convention, but I think if I ever decide I wanna be launched from the UK to America in a flying metal tube of death in order to get to PAX or E3 then a hazmat suit will be worn at all times.

"Are you cosplaying?" "Uh, yeah, sure, I'm a, uh, a scientist from half-life..."

lolwot
20th Jun 2013, 22:32
Was there any indication that there might be tweaks to certain RPG aspects of the game? I.E. Fewer Praxis kits or higher cost for augmentations?

tetracycloide
21st Jun 2013, 17:09
Was there any indication that there might be tweaks to certain RPG aspects of the game? I.E. Fewer Praxis kits or higher cost for augmentations?

If the missing link still resets you to 0 and gives the same number of upgrades it did before then that's a pretty big tweak to the RPG aspects. There will be more praxis kits/points but you won't be able to max out everything by the end of the game like you could before. Looking back through the previous posts I don't think there was ever a definitive answer on how the missing link's 'factory reset' would integrate into the game proper but if it's just a straight reset and you start over from that point final progression will be significantly curtailed.

Doozerpindan
21st Jun 2013, 17:32
Will there be cheats available for the DC (maybe even the dev console)? Also, do you think that Eidos would be willing to open up the game to modders and such, cos the assets of the game would make for some amazing user-created levels.

merrick97
21st Jun 2013, 17:32
Thanks for making this thread.

If it turns out that the DE:HR DC ends up being a separate product I do very much hope that it will have its own separate achievement/trophy lists.

I just have a hard time seeing that they can simply "patch" the DC into the main game.

Thanks.

Doozerpindan
22nd Jun 2013, 07:51
Here's a thought, on the subject of useless augments, has anything been done to make the ability to stun enemies while falling even remotely necessary? I've played through HR at least a dozen times and not once have I found a situation where this ability would be in any way useful or convenient.

The Icarus feature itself is useful (save for that bloody cutscene every time), but there are no situations where you're dropping down into a crowd of enemies, which makes the stun feature of that ability utterly pointless.

Darthassin
22nd Jun 2013, 15:47
The most important answers have not been given yet. When? How? How much?

Ashpolt
22nd Jun 2013, 17:13
The most important answers have not been given yet. When? How? How much?

The reason those answers haven't been given yet is because they haven't been decided on yet. EM/SE will no doubt announce something soon, so hold on to your hat. :)

hybridex
26th Jun 2013, 18:44
So this is when the soon-to-be infamous JF's please be patient quote comes into play.. too bad they didn't overhaul the ending as well..

b1skit
27th Jun 2013, 16:42
-It certainly includes The Missing Link, which is now worked into the main game rather than only being playable as an "aside". We didn't ask about the smaller DLCs - Tong's Rescue, Explose Mission / Tactical Enhancement, etc - but given that this is the "ultimate" version of DXHR, I would strongly expect they'll be in there.

I can chime in here and confirm, that yes, these are in there - all of the DXHR content ever made is in there - bonus missions, weapons etc in addition to the Missing Link DLC. This is the ULTIMATE version of DXHR :)

b1skit
27th Jun 2013, 17:19
Happy to do it!

I'm honestly not sure about that. We didn't get a look into that portion of the game and the interview was mostly focused on The Fall, so I can't give you an answer. I'll double check with Adam though, I'm sure we can get a clear answer to this. :)


The Missing Link is integrated directly into the main story arch of Human Revolution. You'll remember that Adam's locked augmentations were explained in the story, so the actual integration of TML is seamless in the complete story arch as you would expect.

Shralla
27th Jun 2013, 17:58
It never explained how he got them BACK, however.

68_pie
27th Jun 2013, 19:35
I can chime in here and confirm, that yes, these are in there - all of the DXHR content ever made is in there - bonus missions, weapons etc in addition to the Missing Link DLC. This is the ULTIMATE version of DXHR :)

So now, when I start the game my inventory will be completely full. Great...

b1skit
27th Jun 2013, 19:47
It never explained how he got them BACK, however.

Good question Shralla - I actually had to consult Émile Pedneault (DXHR Director's Cut Designer) for this one!

You actually continue on through the remainder of the DXHR story arch with the same specs that you finish The Missing Link with - the story continues on as you would expect. Your augmentations only actually get reset once (at the start of The Missing Link).

Coincidentally, at the end of The Missing Link Quinn supplies Adam with equipment and supplies which ensures that he has the same number of possible augmentations/praxis points as you would have on a default, vanilla DXHR play through. This ensures both story continuity and game balance.

b1skit
27th Jun 2013, 19:48
So now, when I start the game my inventory will be completely full. Great...

Life is indeed cruel, sir.

68_pie
27th Jun 2013, 20:06
Life is indeed cruel, sir.

Just seems kinda pointless and unbalanced. True, I can drop everything straight away but the devs putting them in gives the implication that the game is designed with these items in mind. A menu option to turn it off would be better.

Edit:


Coincidentally, at the end of The Missing Link Quinn supplies Adam with equipment and supplies which ensures that he has the same number of possible augmentations/praxis points as you would have on a default, vanilla DXHR play through. This ensures both story continuity and game balance.

To be clear, is that a set value for everyone or does it match what you specifically had before you started TML?


Also, you know there's a multi-quote button, right?

CodenameD
28th Jun 2013, 06:36
Good question Shralla - I actually had to consult Émile Pedneault (DXHR Director's Cut Designer) for this one!

You actually continue on through the remainder of the DXHR story arch with the same specs that you finish The Missing Link with - the story continues on as you would expect. Your augmentations only actually get reset once (at the start of The Missing Link).

Coincidentally, at the end of The Missing Link Quinn supplies Adam with equipment and supplies which ensures that he has the same number of possible augmentations/praxis points as you would have on a default, vanilla DXHR play through. This ensures both story continuity and game balance.

Ok so say I've been stupid and payed no heed to all those little extra praxis you earn from NL Takedowns and Hacking. And by the end of TML section, I end up like the guy who redid same areas over and over and left no hackable system untouched to make sure he had every possible Praxis at all times? :)

Basically this means whatever I do with praxis up until Hengsha has no effect on my final character in the end?

I'm kinda disappointed here. Although it is a good thing that a single character build screwup is pardoned, I wish we had a more strict "choices and concequences" system here.

Here's my suggestion (SPOILERS)-


Maybe if we opted for the "Firmware Upgrade" at hengsha our Augs will glitch out and shut down and THEN we get to start over. And if we didn't, we'd carry on with our augs and just get less / no praxis on our way through the TML area.


Or even better... if the devs balanced the XP distribution through the entire game evenly so that what we get at TML blends in with the rest of the game perfectly.

hybridex
29th Jun 2013, 19:05
The Icarus feature itself is useful (save for that bloody cutscene every time), but there are no situations where you're dropping down into a crowd of enemies, which makes the stun feature of that ability utterly pointless.

One cool place is at Panchea when Adam does one of his longest fall of the game when you can jump into the, what the heck you call that tunnel thing and drops into those zombies dude down below and can use the stun.

TazmanianD
3rd Jul 2013, 01:56
Good question Shralla - I actually had to consult Émile Pedneault (DXHR Director's Cut Designer) for this one!

You actually continue on through the remainder of the DXHR story arch with the same specs that you finish The Missing Link with - the story continues on as you would expect. Your augmentations only actually get reset once (at the start of The Missing Link).

Coincidentally, at the end of The Missing Link Quinn supplies Adam with equipment and supplies which ensures that he has the same number of possible augmentations/praxis points as you would have on a default, vanilla DXHR play through. This ensures both story continuity and game balance.

I thought I had read somewhere that it was A) optional to play TML with a reset and B) you get back everything you might have lost when you start the TML content. If B is true that seems like it would unbalanced the last few chapters of the game. I actually really liked the fact that if you worked really really hard you could just barely earn every augmentation in the vanilla game. If you end up with all your XP from when you start TML plus all the XP you earn during TML, by the time you finish TML you'd have way more than enough XPs for every augmentation which would make earning more XPs pointless in the last couple of chapters.

TazmanianD
3rd Jul 2013, 01:59
A question I don't think I saw asked: since they're pulling in enhancements from TML into the regular game, there was one very minor tweak in TML that I hated. The NPCs in TML seemed to have a very slight glow about them. It wasn't that glaring annoying interaction highlighting that you can turn off (which I've never even tried turning on); this was more subtle. Can you guys tell me if you noticed any extra glow around the NPCs than there was before? I saw this an the PC versions; I don't know if the other versions were different.

Doozerpindan
4th Jul 2013, 17:36
I'm curious about things like "Map Editing" and such, what exactly does that mean, and what is this neural hub thing?

Pinky_Powers
4th Jul 2013, 20:45
Good question Shralla - I actually had to consult Émile Pedneault (DXHR Director's Cut Designer) for this one!

You actually continue on through the remainder of the DXHR story arch with the same specs that you finish The Missing Link with - the story continues on as you would expect. Your augmentations only actually get reset once (at the start of The Missing Link).

Coincidentally, at the end of The Missing Link Quinn supplies Adam with equipment and supplies which ensures that he has the same number of possible augmentations/praxis points as you would have on a default, vanilla DXHR play through. This ensures both story continuity and game balance.

http://houseofgeekery.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/thoughtful-monkey.jpg

Hmm... I'm okay with this.

Might provide a nice moment to rethink your build and maybe spec out differently for the remainder.

Doozerpindan
6th Jul 2013, 13:45
I'm curious about things like "Map Editing" and such, what exactly does that mean, and what is this neural hub thing?

*bump*

C'mon, guys, I wanna know this stuff! >_<

CodenameD
8th Jul 2013, 06:27
*bump*

C'mon, guys, I wanna know this stuff! >_<

The Director's Cut on the Wii U uses the gamepad for a whole new aug called the "Neural Hub" and a feature called "Map Editing". I'm not exactly sure how these are used or how (if at all) they will be introduced to the PC version of the game.

Apparently it takes advantage of Wii U's second screen. Obviously that can't be emulated so well on a PC. I'm curious to find out how they will implement a feature like that on other platforms.

Maybe a mod can tell you more.

Doozerpindan
8th Jul 2013, 10:43
Well, I was hoping a mod would answer ;)

And I did wonder if it was meant to be for the WiiU only, which kinda sucks cos it looks really interesting, and I would say if anything needed update it would be the maps for the game cos they are really unhelpful.

Ashpolt
8th Jul 2013, 11:08
I'm afraid I didn't use either the Neural Hub or Map Editing features during my playtime with DXHR: DC. Regarding how it works on other formats though, we know that the PS3 version will use Vita and the 360 version will use SmartGlass, so it's safe to assume the PC version will have some form of tablet connectivity for those who want it, and that this connectivity will mirror the WiiU's gamepad features.

Doozerpindan
8th Jul 2013, 11:25
Hmmm... I have a Kindle Fire HD Tablet if that helps...

CyberP
8th Jul 2013, 14:03
I'm afraid I didn't use either the Neural Hub or Map Editing features during my playtime with DXHR: DC. Regarding how it works on other formats though, we know that the PS3 version will use Vita and the 360 version will use SmartGlass, so it's safe to assume the PC version will have some form of tablet connectivity for those who want it, and that this connectivity will mirror the WiiU's gamepad features.

Map editing is leaving notes and custom markers on the map as far as I am aware, maybe more. Something that we wouldn't be interested in using then being vets, especially if it uses ******* 4th wall breaking apps.

merrick97
10th Jul 2013, 13:59
Still want to know if this will feature an all new achievement/trophy set.

I personally have a hard time believing that they can release a simple patch/DLC to make current owners game the directors cut.

Doozerpindan
10th Jul 2013, 15:16
Still want to know if this will feature an all new achievement/trophy set.

I personally have a hard time believing that they can release a simple patch/DLC to make current owners game the directors cut.

Of course they can, Blizzard did it to WoW with Cataclysm. It is all just code after all.

Acid_Burn
10th Jul 2013, 15:52
It's not that simple.
DC is not just DLC included into the main game. There are loads of improvements, texture fixes, some areas are changed, etc.

68_pie
10th Jul 2013, 16:53
It's not that simple.
DC is not just DLC included into the main game. There are loads of improvements, texture fixes, some areas are changed, etc.

Hardly unusual for patches to include all of the things you have mentioned.

merrick97
10th Jul 2013, 17:57
Hardly unusual for patches to include all of the things you have mentioned.

On PC, yes.

On consoles? Not so much.

Darthassin
11th Jul 2013, 06:08
Question: Did they fix the zombies?

68_pie
11th Jul 2013, 07:21
On PC, yes.

On consoles? Not so much.

Why would I care about consoles?

merrick97
11th Jul 2013, 15:47
Why would I care about consoles?

I dont care what you care about.

I care what I care about.

And I care about consoles.

So there.

HERESY
11th Jul 2013, 16:06
@merrick97 don't feed into it. A lot of the PC players suffer from meglomania, refer to themselves as "elite" and, in some cases, actually worship their PC. Pay these people no mind and continue to enjoy what you enjoy.

merrick97
11th Jul 2013, 17:39
@merrick97 don't feed into it. A lot of the PC players suffer from meglomania, refer to themselves as "elite" and, in some cases, actually worship their PC. Pay these people no mind and continue to enjoy what you enjoy.

I have an awesome PC, too and I love PC. But I love trophies and achievements too.

I typically buy my games on console first, get the achievements and/or trophies then sell it.

Once it goes on sale I pick it up on a steam sale.

Shralla
11th Jul 2013, 18:11
Question: Did they fix the zombies?

As in the problem with none of them attacking you as soon as you throw a single grenade of any type?

El_Bel
11th Jul 2013, 19:23
As in replacing the whole stupid level and remaking the endings?

Shralla, I have no idea what you are talking about. Please, can you post a video of it?

Shralla
11th Jul 2013, 19:29
As in replacing the whole stupid level and remaking the endings?

Shralla, I have no idea what you are talking about. Please, can you post a video of it?

...not sure if serious, but whatever.

0YyQtv9vWk0

68_pie
11th Jul 2013, 19:41
I love trophies and achievements too.

I typically buy my games on console first, get the achievements and/or trophies then sell it.

Once it goes on sale I pick it up on a steam sale.

Sounds like the definition of pointlessness and waste of money but whatever floats your boat.

Pinky_Powers
11th Jul 2013, 19:44
But I love trophies and achievements too.

And worse graphics and gameplay, apparently.

There. I've met my "elitist" quota for the day.

CyberP
11th Jul 2013, 19:47
...not sure if serious, but whatever.

[youtube]0YyQtv9vWk0/youtube]

:lol:

Shralla
11th Jul 2013, 19:56
I can see how it would be easy to miss that bug. One the register as hostile to you, it's not exactly your inclination to let them get close to you. So even if you did throw a grenade and the bug happened, you might not even notice because you just shoot them before they get too close or sneak by them.

Darthassin
12th Jul 2013, 05:20
Maybe, just maybe, it is not a bug.

AlexOfSpades
12th Jul 2013, 14:38
Why would I care about consoles?

You dont work for EM so you dont have to care, but they do since they're responsible for delivering a good experience for all platforms. Xbox Live policies explicitly forbid games to have updates and extensions that are not paid (free DLC), which is the reason for example Dungeon Defender's expansions are free on Steam while they're paid on the consoles (And they often dont even get approved by the XBL policies, so the console guys dont get even half of the PC content).

Eidos knows that if they try to pull the same move and make it free for us, they wont be able to make it free for the console guys (And will also offend the publishers, who want it paid coz moneh). If they make it free on PC and paid on consoles, console fans will be butthurt because "herp derp PC elitism". Its a delicate situation, man.

68_pie
12th Jul 2013, 15:21
Eidos knows that if they try to pull the same move and make it free for us, they wont be able to make it free for the console guys (And will also offend the publishers, who want it paid coz moneh). If they make it free on PC and paid on consoles, console fans will be butthurt because "herp derp PC elitism". Its a delicate situation, man.

So they are punishing us in order to mollify the console crowd? Great...

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 15:47
The console version outsold the PC version by a HUGE margin so it doesn't make sense to charge console owners and not PC. It's business 101 and EM played this one right.

Doozerpindan
12th Jul 2013, 17:22
So they are punishing us in order to mollify the console crowd? Great...

As a fellow PC gamer, I'd like to suggest shutting the **** up whinging.

EM put their time and effort into making the game, and then put even more time and effort into remaking the whole damn thing and making it better in perhaps every respect, and you're crying because you have to pay for it? **** you.

Devs deserve to be paid for their time and hard work, especially when they're doing something as a sign of their love for and dedication to their fans. Reworking games into better versions of themselves is a good thing, and more companies should do it, especially with games from previous console generations that fans would love to play on newer consoles.

If this is the beginning of a new trend, or if this has the potential to become one, then it's one I am more than happy to support with my wallet.

merrick97
12th Jul 2013, 17:25
Sounds like the definition of pointlessness and waste of money but whatever floats your boat.

It does float my boat and my day has been made knowing that I have your approval.

If its a good game, I love playing it multiple times on different systems.

Doozerpindan
12th Jul 2013, 17:34
It does float my boat and my day has been made knowing that I have your approval.

Iknowright? >_>

I personally love getting peoples approval on things I was gonna do anyway, especially if it's something that has nothing to do with them and doesn't affect them in any way.

I've played Human Revolution and Missing Link each more than a dozen times, I love the games and I loved the soundtrack/book/comics as well.

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 18:11
:thumb:@Doozerpindan and merrick97.

merrick97
12th Jul 2013, 18:30
Iknowright? >_>

I personally love getting peoples approval on things I was gonna do anyway, especially if it's something that has nothing to do with them and doesn't affect them in any way.

I've played Human Revolution and Missing Link each more than a dozen times, I love the games and I loved the soundtrack/book/comics as well.

68_pie says its a waste of money, though! He clearly knows best. :rasp:

68_pie
12th Jul 2013, 18:38
EM put their time and effort into making the game

Which was a huge letdown. And farming out boss fights to another company really speaks of effort and attention to detail.


and then put even more time and effort into remaking the whole damn thing and making it better in perhaps every respect

The hyperbole in this phrase is delicious.


and you're crying because you have to pay for it? **** you.

CDPR


Devs deserve to be paid for their time and hard work, especially when they're doing something as a sign of their love for and dedication to their fans. Reworking games into better versions of themselves is a good thing, and more companies should do it, especially with games from previous console generations that fans would love to play on newer consoles.

CDPR


If this is the beginning of a new trend, or if this has the potential to become one, then it's one I am more than happy to support with my wallet.

Paying for a patch certainly is a new trend.

Itkovian
12th Jul 2013, 18:50
CDPR is not an argument. It's an example of devs who did some stuff for free, but it does not mean that other devs should be doing work for free either.

Never mind that "CDPR" did not simply make an Editor's Cut, they were actually releasing the game on console for the first time, and so could reasonably expect to make plenty of profit from their efforts (since the console market is much larger than PC gaming). So let's not make it sounds like CDPR were being magnanimous and doing the new Witcher 2 edition out of sheer generosity.

DXHR has already been released for console, and the only new market they're breaking into is a Next Gen console. That's orders of magnitude different than waht CDPR did with The Witcher 2. To expect them to do that work for free is unrealistic.

As for DXHR being a huge letdown, that's entirely subjective. A lot of people disagree, and some of those can be expected to be willing to pay money to get the Director's Cut. If that wasn't the case, there wouldn't have BEEN a director's cut in the first place (at least not beyond the Wii-U).

Itkovian

Doozerpindan
12th Jul 2013, 18:56
68_pie says its a waste of money, though! He clearly knows best. :rasp:

True. I mean, if I need anything in life it's some obnoxious git on the internet telling me how to spend my leisure time.

AlexOfSpades
12th Jul 2013, 18:57
Meanwhile we see companies such as CD Projekt releasing huge expansions for The Witcher all for free... and it makes you wonder if a millionaire company such as Eidos really needs to charge for a patch.

*Sigh*

Remember back in the Unreal Tournament days where we got the Bonus Packs, with dozens of new maps and characters for free - as a "thank you" from the company for buying the game? Now its the other way around, with them thinking buying the game is simply not enough to satisfy their greed. And there are people in this thread right here right now protecting this. You guys are gamers too! They're slapping the gamers' faces to see if they drop a few more pennies and you guys are liking it...!

Wow, it makes Alex very sad.

Itkovian
12th Jul 2013, 19:06
Meanwhile we see companies such as CD Projekt releasing huge expansions for The Witcher all for free... and it makes you wonder if a millionaire company such as Eidos really needs to charge for a patch.

*Sigh*

Again, they did not do that. They released the PC content for free... because at the same time they were releasing the GAME itself to the console market.

It's an important distinction. CDPR weren't doing this for free, they were releasing into the Console market, which which they could expect much more profit than they did from the PC release. Given that, they decided they could score points by giving their PC fans the improvements for free.

EM has already released the game for consoles. This is a re-release, that only gets new users from the Wii-U market (which is far more limited than the whole console market).

Never mind that CDPR made The Witcher 2 for PC FIRST, so adding that content to the PC version was probably far simpler. DXHR, however, was made for consoles primarily and ported to PC by a third party (which did an awesome job, mind you).

It might look like the same situation, but you're actually comparing apples and oranges.

Itkovian

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 19:31
@Itkovian:thumb:

Shralla
12th Jul 2013, 20:25
If this is the beginning of a new trend, or if this has the potential to become one, then it's one I am more than happy to support with my wallet.

Yeah, let's totally encourage devs to release unfinished, broken games by telling them that we're completely willing to bend over and buy a "fixed" version for full price two years later. That sounds great.


Again, they did not do that. They released the PC content for free... because at the same time they were releasing the GAME itself to the console market.

Except that they did exactly the same thing with the first one, which never came to consoles. They've already said that they'll be releasing free additional content for The Witcher 3.

AlexOfSpades
12th Jul 2013, 20:29
Again, they did not do that. They released the PC content for free... because at the same time they were releasing the GAME itself to the console market.

It's an important distinction. CDPR weren't doing this for free, they were releasing into the Console market, which which they could expect much more profit than they did from the PC release. Given that, they decided they could score points by giving their PC fans the improvements for free.

That still doesnt explain all the other games that give DLC for free. (UT and UT2004 with the bonuspacks, Dungeon Defenders and its crapload of free DLC for steam users, Unreal 2 and its multiplayer expansion entirely for free, the list goes on and on). All i do is wonder - how did Trendy Entertainment survive with free DLC being such a small company, and yet Eidos (backed by Squeenix) needs to charge for patches? Is it need or is it greed?

Still, i'm not surprised. Everyone saw this coming - we all know this is how most of the industry works. Games with free updates are minority - the trend now is to milk the customers to death with zero respect. "The industry has grown up".



DXHR, however, was made for consoles primarily and ported to PC by a third party (which did an awesome job, mind you).


:lol: What that has to do with anything? You're making me think you're on their payroll, throwing unnecessary compliments here and there. Wouldnt be surprised - after Microsoft's "reputation management" scandal over Reddit...

Nevertheless, it wasnt an "awesome job!". It was an "okay job". Loading screens were still ridiculously long and the game ran with poor performance on most computers mysteriously. My rig can run most games maxxed with very high FPS, and DXHR felt clunky and slow even with its poor graphics. But well, that's my opinion.



@Itkovian

Please refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to the discussion, it floods the thread. Thank you.

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 20:52
Please refrain from making posts that contribute nothing to the discussion, it floods the thread. Thank you.

Uh, who the hell are you a mod/admin? No? Well refrain from telling me what to do. :thumb:

The discussion? Well the title of the thread is "We PLAYED Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut at E3 – Ask us anything!" but I don't think you asked any of those who have played the DC a single question. I mean we know for a fact I DID because my questions are the first ones addressed in the thread. Yours? Do you even have any? Now who's really off topic and not contributing?

I'm in agreement with them (the people who I acknowledged) and much of what they've said I've already stated in many classic posts in this very forum. Stop begging for free goods and let go of the entitlement mentality.


Yeah, let's totally encourage devs to release unfinished, broken games by telling them that we're completely willing to bend over and buy a "fixed" version for full price two years later. That sounds great.

Skyrim. I didn't see you complaining about it. DX:HR wasn't unfinished or broken. Questionable design choices? Yes. Unfinished and broken? Those who gave it numerous awards and the majority of the 2+ million purchasers, most of them console players, would disagree with you.


Except that they did exactly the same thing with the first one, which never came to consoles.

So if it never came to consoles why are you talking about it?


They've already said that they'll be releasing free additional content for The Witcher 3.

And? That's their business model. EM has a different business model.

Shralla
12th Jul 2013, 21:18
Skyrim. I didn't see you complaining about it.

lol, that's because you weren't even (ACTIVELY) around when that game came out. I have never purchased an Elder Scrolls game.


So if it never came to consoles why are you talking about it?

Because his argument was that CDPR only release a big free update because they were making the port to consoles around that time and wanted improvements to sell the game on consoles. But they released the same kind of big free updates for the first Witcher game, so that point falls through.


And? That's their business model. EM has a different business model.

One that is worse for consumers, which is the only thing any of us are saying.

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 21:53
lol, that's because you weren't even (ACTIVELY) around when that game came out. I have never purchased an Elder Scrolls game.

I haven't either and, because of their business practices, don't intend to. If I don't like what a company does I vote with my wallet.


Because his argument was that CDPR only release a big free update because they were making the port to consoles around that time and wanted improvements to sell the game on consoles. But they released the same kind of big free updates for the first Witcher game, so that point falls through.

Yes and this goes back to their business model.


One that is worse for consumers, which is the only thing any of us are saying.

It's your opinion that it is worse for consumers.

AlexOfSpades
12th Jul 2013, 22:30
Oh, speaking of which, Minecraft has sold probably ten times more than DX:HR on all platforms and all of its updates are free. It is pretty much updated monthly, by the way, and the amount of content added is fantastic. Certainly having such a close contact with their fanbase and releasing free updates is what keeps the game selling ludicrously well (over 20 million units sold). A lesson to be learned, certainly.

FrankCSIS
12th Jul 2013, 23:17
I feel they've orchestrated their own catch 22, which I'm willing to blame on the lack of experience as a studio. The same lack of foresight which has allowed this funky jailbreak business.

When the opportunity came to release it on a Nintendo platform, I'm not inclined to believe there were ill intentions behind the idea to revisit some of the content and mechanic which was flagged as problematic.

Seeing how things have since unveiled, and the somewhat cryptic yet revealing nature of the events and statements which followed, I truly don't think they expected people to ask so loudly for the same update to come to PC and other consoles in the first place. I don't think I'm mistaken when I say they had no plans to release the same content on other platforms, because they expected people had since moved on, and were focusing on those who had not yet played the game, or were looking for a solid title on an otherwise catastrophic console (so far anyway).

Still speculating here, this lack of foresight has forced their hand into releasing the content on other platforms. Considering the Wii U version quite possibly benefited from Nintendo subsidies, justifying its dedicated budget in the first place, it's easy to imagine this unexpected pc/console update will be forked out of their own pocket, with no money in the budget lined for it in the first place. IF there was a deal with Nintendo, there might be some legal ramifications behind it as well.

One might say, of course, that those features were flagged as problematic, here and elsewhere, DURING the development process, and could have been solved before release. It seems the big playtest facility and the varied focus group lacked the insight to flag something which the internet has immediately identified as undesirable. It's a shame no one listened, and so it is.

Like so many people in every workplace out there, I don't think anyone stopped to think of the likely ramifications of their decision, in this case a Director's Cut as a Wii U exclusive. People were probably excited to revisit the title with new features, not imagining the inevitable backlash. Once again, I'm putting this on lack of experience, a lot more than malicious intents. There is no simple solution now, for this self-appointed problem. Lesson learned, one would hope.

HERESY
12th Jul 2013, 23:38
Oh, speaking of which, Minecraft has sold probably ten times more than DX:HR on all platforms and all of its updates are free. It is pretty much updated monthly, by the way, and the amount of content added is fantastic. Certainly having such a close contact with their fanbase and releasing free updates is what keeps the game selling ludicrously well (over 20 million units sold). A lesson to be learned, certainly.

And how much did it cost to develop and market Minecraft?

Stop begging for free content.

68_pie
12th Jul 2013, 23:48
Yeah, let's totally encourage devs to release unfinished, broken games by telling them that we're completely willing to bend over and buy a "fixed" version for full price two years later. That sounds great.

Except that they did exactly the same thing with the first one, which never came to consoles. They've already said that they'll be releasing free additional content for The Witcher 3.

QFT


It's your opinion that it is worse for consumers.

"Offer huge updates and overhauls for free, free DLC, years of post release support and expansion"

vs

"Don't fix bugs, charge for DLC, charge for a patch to fix elements that shouldn't have been broken in the first place"


The first one is better for the consumer. Also, it engenders a great deal of goodwill from me to the company and makes me more likely to pay full price for their games in the future. My respect for CDPR is the reason that The Witcher 2 is the only game that I have ever preordered.

TazmanianD
12th Jul 2013, 23:56
Again, they did not do that. They released the PC content for free... because at the same time they were releasing the GAME itself to the console market.

That's true and it does make the circumstances a little different. On the other hand, the changes offered free to PC users was pretty significant whereas from everything I've read here the changes in the DXDC are relatively minimal. If you already own the game and all the DLC, it seems like it would engender a great deal of good will to offer a free upgrade for an amount of content that I suspect most gamers wouldn't pay for. CDPR gave away a lot more than DXDC would be giving away.

CyberP
13th Jul 2013, 00:07
One might say, of course, that those features were flagged as problematic, here and elsewhere, DURING the development process, and could have been solved before release. It seems the big playtest facility and the varied focus group lacked the insight to flag something which the internet has immediately identified as undesirable. It's a shame no one listened, and so it is.

Like so many people in every workplace out there, I don't think anyone stopped to think of the likely ramifications of their decision, in this case a Director's Cut as a Wii U exclusive. People were probably excited to revisit the title with new features, not imagining the inevitable backlash. Once again, I'm putting this on lack of experience, a lot more than malicious intents. There is no simple solution now, for this self-appointed problem. Lesson learned, one would hope.

If the internet had any sway over Eidos Montreal/SE's decisions then the Fall wouldn't exist.

Within 1 month. Within 1 month you will have enhanced Deus Ex for free offered by yours truly.

HERESY
13th Jul 2013, 00:16
"Offer huge updates and overhauls for free, free DLC, years of post release support and expansion"

vs

"Don't fix bugs, charge for DLC, charge for a patch to fix elements that shouldn't have been broken in the first place"



There is nothing wrong with charging for DLC. They are not charging to patch and fix elements that shouldn't have been broken in the first place. Please stop exaggerating. As for bug fixes, that is something that they should support for free and I've always stated that but reworked boss fights, TML (which was developed after the game was released), etc? No. You aren't entitled to that. BTW, when CDPR did the content for Witcher 2 did they have to outsource the job? An even more important question is did they use a different engine for the new content?


The first one is better for the consumer.

Now ask yourself the following question, "Could it be possible that company B is not able to utilize the same business model as company A because it isn't economically feasible to do so?"



Also, it engenders a great deal of goodwill from me to the company and makes me more likely to pay full price for their games in the future. My respect for CDPR is the reason that The Witcher 2 is the only game that I have ever preordered.

So vote with your wallet! If you don't want to support EM you don't have to but to beg for free goods and promote this entitlement mentality is wrong. You don't see wii owners going crazy over what just happened with Muramasa do you? No. Same with this game. EM delivered the goods, the majority of fans agree and the industry agrees as well. Just suck it up and pay for the goods or don't play them.

CyberP
13th Jul 2013, 02:58
So vote with your wallet! If you don't want to support EM you don't have to but to beg for free goods and promote this entitlement mentality is wrong. You don't see wii owners going crazy over what just happened with Muramasa do you? No. Same with this game. EM delivered the goods, the majority of fans agree and the industry agrees as well. Just suck it up and pay for the goods or don't play them.

I agree with HERESY for this one instance. What business works hard on a product only to release it for free. It's ok for modders to do so or devs with small or vital patches but EM spend bundles of CAD (to waste) "upgrading" the game. Maybe they can adapt the principles of a charity organisation once people start making donations.
If only I were interested in their product I'd throw what little money I have at them, and do what it takes to get & throw more. I may not agree with what they are doing at all and don't believe it's worth my time or money but I don't see them giving anything significantly costly to produce away for free, that's insane talk; Directors cut is not compatible to a patch, check out the feature list.
Be happy with your free Deus Ex: HR ringtones :lol:

I just want Deus Ex-quality products from them which ain't happening any time soon apparently so I vote with my non-existent wallet and have a good rant here :).

merrick97
13th Jul 2013, 19:10
Remember back in the Unreal Tournament days where we got the Bonus Packs, with dozens of new maps and characters for free - as a "thank you" from the company for buying the game? Now its the other way around, with them thinking buying the game is simply not enough to satisfy their greed. And there are people in this thread right here right now protecting this. You guys are gamers too! They're slapping the gamers' faces to see if they drop a few more pennies and you guys are liking it...!

Wow, it makes Alex very sad.

This argument is not a very good example.

First thing you need to realize is that most of those UT mappacks were made by players and Epic released them as a community pack. Very few of those free maps were actually made by Epic.

Secondly, the cost of making individual maps back then was SIGNIFICANTLY lower and required much less manpower. Many times those maps were made by a small group of 1 or 2 people. This day and age I am guessing DLC requires 20-30 people to work on and produce.

While we are talking about Epic, if you recall they released Unreal Tournament 2003 which was not well received and was criticized for having much less features than the original Unreal Tournament. Epics response was to release Unreal Tournament 2004, which you had to buy even if you bought Unreal Tournament 2003.

Really brings things into perspective doesn't it?


Yeah, let's totally encourage devs to release unfinished, broken games by telling them that we're completely willing to bend over and buy a "fixed" version for full price two years later. That sounds great.



Except that they did exactly the same thing with the first one, which never came to consoles. They've already said that they'll be releasing free additional content for The Witcher 3.

I agree completely that we should NEVER encourage developers to release incomplete games.

But here is where your argument fails:

Deus Ex HR was a complete playable game. It was not unfinished or broken. I have played several games (Killzone 3, Mass Effect 3 and Rage) in which it felt like they weren't quite finished and had some content missing. Once I got done with Deus Ex HR I did not feel this way. I felt like the small parts could have been done better, but I felt that DE HR was pretty close to being the game they wanted to deliver.

For all the criticisms of the boss battles they were not impossible to get through playing as a pacifist on hard. I got through them. Where they badly designed? Absolutely, but almost every game has sections that are badly designed. Most of those game developers don't get the opportunity to go back and fix their mistakes. EIdos Montreal is doing that. Is it a trend I want to see? Not necessarily, but I am glad it is happening in this instance. Mass Effect 3 is another game I would love to see a directors cut for.

They are just releasing a better version which you DO NOT have to buy. Its not like the original (which was VERY highly praised) will no longer work if you choose not to buy the new version.

Ill take what Eidos Montreal is doing over what other companies are doing in which they cut out content to sale as DLC that should have been in the main game on Day 1 like EA did with Mass Effect 3.


Oh, speaking of which, Minecraft has sold probably ten times more than DX:HR on all platforms and all of its updates are free. It is pretty much updated monthly, by the way, and the amount of content added is fantastic. Certainly having such a close contact with their fanbase and releasing free updates is what keeps the game selling ludicrously well (over 20 million units sold). A lesson to be learned, certainly.

Again. Minecraft content does not cost anywhere NEAR what it would cost to produce DLC for a single player game like DE:HR.


I feel they've orchestrated their own catch 22, which I'm willing to blame on the lack of experience as a studio. The same lack of foresight which has allowed this funky jailbreak business.

When the opportunity came to release it on a Nintendo platform, I'm not inclined to believe there were ill intentions behind the idea to revisit some of the content and mechanic which was flagged as problematic.

Seeing how things have since unveiled, and the somewhat cryptic yet revealing nature of the events and statements which followed, I truly don't think they expected people to ask so loudly for the same update to come to PC and other consoles in the first place. I don't think I'm mistaken when I say they had no plans to release the same content on other platforms, because they expected people had since moved on, and were focusing on those who had not yet played the game, or were looking for a solid title on an otherwise catastrophic console (so far anyway).

Still speculating here, this lack of foresight has forced their hand into releasing the content on other platforms. Considering the Wii U version quite possibly benefited from Nintendo subsidies, justifying its dedicated budget in the first place, it's easy to imagine this unexpected pc/console update will be forked out of their own pocket, with no money in the budget lined for it in the first place. IF there was a deal with Nintendo, there might be some legal ramifications behind it as well.

One might say, of course, that those features were flagged as problematic, here and elsewhere, DURING the development process, and could have been solved before release. It seems the big playtest facility and the varied focus group lacked the insight to flag something which the internet has immediately identified as undesirable. It's a shame no one listened, and so it is.

Like so many people in every workplace out there, I don't think anyone stopped to think of the likely ramifications of their decision, in this case a Director's Cut as a Wii U exclusive. People were probably excited to revisit the title with new features, not imagining the inevitable backlash. Once again, I'm putting this on lack of experience, a lot more than malicious intents. There is no simple solution now, for this self-appointed problem. Lesson learned, one would hope.

Id say that this post sums it up quite nicely. EM probably never did intend to revisit DE:HR after it came out. They probably made a note of the criticisms so they could make sure those criticisms were addressed when they make their next game.

But for whatever reason they decided to release the game on Wii U and saw they had an opportunity to make the game better and they did. They probably did not expect people would want the same content on PC, 360 or PS3.

Itkovian
16th Jul 2013, 20:16
That still doesnt explain all the other games that give DLC for free. (UT and UT2004 with the bonuspacks, Dungeon Defenders and its crapload of free DLC for steam users, Unreal 2 and its multiplayer expansion entirely for free, the list goes on and on). All i do is wonder - how did Trendy Entertainment survive with free DLC being such a small company, and yet Eidos (backed by Square Enix) needs to charge for patches? Is it need or is it greed?

Still, i'm not surprised. Everyone saw this coming - we all know this is how most of the industry works. Games with free updates are minority - the trend now is to milk the customers to death with zero respect. "The industry has grown up".


Hum, while there are games that release SOME DLC for free, most AAA titles do not. That is because making DLC costs money, and it is perfectly reasonable for people to expect return from their investment. It's hardly a novel concept.

Just because these are no longer physical expansion packs doesn't mean they're free to produce.

As for why some do free DLC, I would imagine it is because they expect their free DLC to increase the number of people who purchase and play the full game. Or, as in the case of CDPR's The Witcher 2, because the new content is actually only free for a small portion of the player base, and they are expecting major returns from the rest of the release.

Just remember, this is not a PATCH, fixing some bugs. It's NEW CONTENT, with other improvements to the game. It is far from normal for games to offer new content for free.

Remember, adding stuff to a game costs the developer money. Sometimes they like to make the money back. The price you paid for the original game and the missing link DLC was paying for the production of those products. Now we will be paying for the new content.

If you feel the new content isn't worth the money, then don't buy it. That's your right as consumer.



:lol: What that has to do with anything? You're making me think you're on their payroll, throwing unnecessary compliments here and there. Wouldnt be surprised - after Microsoft's "reputation management" scandal over Reddit...

Nevertheless, it wasnt an "awesome job!". It was an "okay job". Loading screens were still ridiculously long and the game ran with poor performance on most computers mysteriously. My rig can run most games maxxed with very high FPS, and DXHR felt clunky and slow even with its poor graphics. But well, that's my opinion.


It has EVERYTHING to do with what I was saying. Adding PC content to The Witcher 2 was probably easier for CDPR because the game itself had been developed for PC first, and the new edition (whose content we got for free) was a port to console. That possibly made it easier to decide to release the PC content for free, alongside the fact they knew they'd gain massive profit from breaking into the console market.

DXHR, meanwhile, was designed primarily for console and ported over to PC by a 3rd party. This implies that adding this new content to the PC version is non-trivial. I pointed this out since some people were saying PC users should get the patch for free.

And yes, I do think that Nexxis did a great job compared to most PC ports. The controls were excellent for PC, with MAJOR GUI differences between PC and console versions (we get a nice quickbar, no weapons wheel, and so forth), and keyboard/mouse support is excellent. This is a major improvement over many console-to-PC ports I've seen through the years.

And finally, I know this is a Deus Ex forum, but not everything is a conspiracy, and not every satisfied customer is a Square Enix sockpuppet. :)

Darthassin
20th Jul 2013, 17:33
Just give me the damn game already. I don't give **** about price.

harry747
17th Aug 2013, 19:35
So the WiiU has the controler screen, PS has the vita, and the xbox has smartglass. What does the PC use? Is there any kind of tablet or phone integration so that PC users can get the same functionality as the other systems get from attached touch screen devices?

i wonder if i can use an iphone or ipad with my mac. that would be COOL!

chabbles
18th Aug 2013, 05:14
It would be cool if they offered an update for a fiver through stream/psn/xbl, so long as you owned/installed HR and the missing link.

deadlygun
27th Sep 2013, 10:54
What has been done in the Boss fights to improve them ?

CodenameD
2nd Oct 2013, 16:38
What has been done in the Boss fights to improve them ?

From what I've read so far, all bosses can now be killed indirectly or without getting confined in a tightly enclosed "boss-room". Deus Ex style.

A major improvement in my book. However I wish I they don't fix the glitch where you can 1 HIT KO Namir. Because that felt really good and surprisingly realistic even for Human Revolution.

CodenameD
2nd Oct 2013, 16:40
What I would like to know is will there be a Retail version for the DC on PC ?

HERESY
2nd Oct 2013, 18:49
What I would like to know is will there be a Retail version for the DC on PC ?

I don't know if there will be a boxed version but it is going to be released on the PC. Straight from the horses mouth, "...we have confirmed a ship date for Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Director's Cut. We will be releasing the game on October 22 (25 in PAL regions) on the Wii U, PS3, Xbox 360 and PC. Over the last 18 months, the team has been working very hard on the development of the Director’s Cut."

Pixieking
2nd Oct 2013, 19:25
What I would like to know is will there be a Retail version for the DC on PC ?

Certainly in the UK there is:

http://www.shopto.net/video%20games/pc/PCDE57-deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut

and

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00FB3UPB0/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now, what I want to know is, is it confirmed that the Director's Cut will use Steamworks. I assume it will, since the original release of HR did. But I don't want to buy the retail disc and find it doesn't register on Steam.

merrick97
2nd Oct 2013, 20:26
All I want to know is if it has its own separate trophy/achievement list.

TazmanianD
5th Oct 2013, 04:14
All I want to know is if it has its own separate trophy/achievement list.

Is that because you want to earn them again? If so, there are unofficial ways of resetting your achievements.

TheAugmentedBox
7th Oct 2013, 15:01
The plasma rifle you get after defeating Namir... you get it at the very end of the game and are unable to upgrade the weapon to the fullest. With the new Game+ modr, will you be able to use that weapon in the beginning of the game and upgrade it then?

CyberP
7th Oct 2013, 15:04
The plasma rifle you get after defeating Namir... you get it at the very end of the game and are unable to upgrade the weapon to the fullest. With the new Game+ modr, will you be able to use that weapon in the beginning of the game and upgrade it then?

The only real benefit of NG+.

However they could just make it obtainable earlier in the game, TYM maybe, if they can make up reason for an experimental prototype plasma weapon to be there (that's easy, and there is already a rocket launcher lying about).

Darthassin
7th Oct 2013, 15:23
In my opinion every weapon and every item (even the most powerful) in games likd DX should be possible to get no further than in point indicating half of the game. Than player have second half of the game to play with it.

dece74
10th Oct 2013, 04:00
1. Will the 360/PS3 show any graphics or performance improvements over the original game or will it look the same?

2. Will save files/profiles from the original game carry over and work with the Directors Cut?

3. Will _bought and paid for_ DLC content from the original such as preorder unlockables be compatible with the Directors Cut or will our money go to waste???

4. Any more DLC planned for the future?

Doozerpindan
10th Oct 2013, 04:11
1. Will the 360/PS3 show any graphics or performance improvements over the original game or will it look the same?

2. Will save files/profiles from the original game carry over and work with the Directors Cut?

3. Will _bought and paid for_ DLC content from the original such as preorder unlockables be compatible with the Directors Cut or will our money go to waste???

4. Any more DLC planned for the future?

1) Isn't that kind of the point of the DC, along with ai upgrades and such?

2) Doubtful, due to the answer below.

3) All DLC will be included in the main game, so the DC will have the missing link, the weapons and the mission.

4) I would like that, but I think I'd rather they focus on the next game in the series.

dece74
10th Oct 2013, 06:14
1) Isn't that kind of the point of the DC, along with ai upgrades and such?




Well we've heard them say that the WiiU version has visual improvements but we, as far as I know, haven't seen or heard anything about what the PS3/Xbox version will look like by comparison. Any leads? Hopefully there will be reviews when the game drops.

Doozerpindan
10th Oct 2013, 07:29
Eh, true enough. I personally can't wait, I wanna see these supposed new level designs and boss fights etc.

Captain Mazda
11th Oct 2013, 13:20
Eh, true enough. I personally can't wait, I wanna see these supposed new level designs and boss fights etc.

I saw video of the "new" Barret fight, it looks pretty awful.

Jerion
11th Oct 2013, 13:23
I saw video of the "new" Barret fight, it looks pretty awful.

So an improvement then. ;)

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 13:25
So an improvement then. ;)

Hahaha! XD

Yeah, I saw that vid too, the level looks no different, the boss ai looks no different, and the fight itself is no less contrived or forced than it was before even with the alternate method.

Jerion
11th Oct 2013, 13:44
The level has about twice as much playable area and different options for tackling Barrett with things like hackable turrets and space to hide where he can't follow, but the basic appearance of the central area hasn't changed. Also I'm pretty sure he's weaker now, which happily makes the fight shorter. It's still forced on you though, and it's still more or less the only reason for the FEMA mission.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 14:06
The level has about twice as much playable area and different options for tackling Barrett with things like hackable turrets and space to hide where he can't follow, but the basic appearance of the central area hasn't changed. Also I'm pretty sure he's weaker now, which happily makes the fight shorter. It's still forced on you though, and it's still more or less the only reason for the FEMA mission.

Well, the vid showed only a few small bits of the level and it looked no different. I'm glad it's bigger cos it's my fav level in the game and it's the only level of any game I've played that's ever made me want to play a multiplayer version of it, if that makes sense.

Hopefully all the bosses are weaker, they're the main reason I used cheats. I hate boss fights in any game tbh, unless they're RPGs (specifically turn-based ones).

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 14:26
So you must really hate the Spider Mastermind and the Cyberdemon in Doom then?

I love boss fights, and whilst I enjoyed that DX:HR's offered a challenge, they are nowhere near as hard as some make out even when going stealth. They are terribly designed overall though.

Jerion
11th Oct 2013, 14:29
Well, the vid showed only a few small bits of the level and it looked no different. I'm glad it's bigger cos it's my fav level in the game and it's the only level of any game I've played that's ever made me want to play a multiplayer version of it, if that makes sense.

Hopefully all the bosses are weaker, they're the main reason I used cheats. I hate boss fights in any game tbh, unless they're RPGs (specifically turn-based ones).

When I say the level, I mean the boss fight arena's level design. The FEMA mission itself hasn't been notably changed.

I don't really like boss fights in general; they seem to be an arbitrary remnant of older, simpler games with much weaker narrative focus. The bullet-sponge boss is the least interesting option though, so the default Barrett fight is easily my least favorite moment in the game. The Burke fight, now that was the right way to do things.

With some redesign, the FEMA mission could potentially be interesting as a PvP multiplayer map, but I've always been interested in a DX game (or style of game) with co-op. I often look for things that I could play together with my girlfriend, and that would do nicely.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 14:33
I don't really like boss fights in general; they seem to be an arbitrary remnant of older, simpler games with much weaker narrative focus. The bullet-sponge boss is the least interesting option though, so the default Barrett fight is easily my least favorite moment in the game. The Burke fight, now that was the right way to do things.

Horrible opinion ;)

Every game with guns or melee combat needs a bossfight, whether it being optional as in DX1 or not, or even something larger, for example Area51 itself can be seen as the bossfight, the hardest point in the game where it is a test of all the player has learnt.

I can understand you not liking the embarrassing forced arena bossfights in DX:HR, they were terrible, but games like Dark souls and even Fallout: New Vegas or Metal Gear Solid need bossfights, latter two being narrative-heavy games.

Gameplay is unique to games, and what puts games above other mediums as they can do everything that the other mediums can + make it interactive. I wish more people valued gameplay as much as I, especially most modern developers. Alien. The queen has to be a boss fight. Die Hard. Hans Gruber has to be a boss fight. Boss fights are a good thing, not remnants of older games in need of removal.

JCpies
11th Oct 2013, 14:46
I must be the only person who enjoyed fighting Barrett.

After sneaking around and doing silent take outs, it was fun to let loose with the loud guns and explosives.

I think there should be non-boss soldiers like Fedorova. We already have titular opponents and opponents that stealth, so imagine facing off against a stealth sprinter that can "hop" over certain obstacles, flank you quickly and pursue you through the streets.

Jerion
11th Oct 2013, 14:50
Horrible opinion ;)

Every game with guns or melee combat needs a bossfight, whether it being optional as in DX1 or not, or even something larger, for example Area51 itself can be seen as the bossfight, the hardest point in the game where it is a test of all the player has learnt.

I can understand you not liking the embarrassing forced arena bossfights in DX:HR, they were terrible, but games like Dark souls and even Fallout: New Vegas or Metal Gear Solid need bossfights, latter two being narrative-heavy games.

The traditional model of boss fight, where a VIP enemy has ten times normal HP and a powerful gun, is one of the lazier, more dissonant ideas possible in narrative-driven games that take that same aspect seriously. A climax is necessary, I agree (that's how many great things in life work, yes? ;) ), and having a final or penultimate level be that climax is a much better, more satisfying, more coherent solution. I wouldn't call Area 51 or Omega Ranch boss fights though.

Kill Bill is a great example of this in film. Bill doesn't have superpowers, he isn't a hulk, and meeting him is nowhere near as grind-heavy as the big fight in the first movie. Yet confronting him and winning is absolutely a test of everything the protagonist has learned and gained since the adventure started.

Also, on the topic of DX:HR: As Omega Ranch is really the climax of the main plot thread, Panacea might have worked better if it had ended with a bigger-than-ever-before conversation battle.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 14:58
The traditional model of boss fight, where the enemy has ten time normal HP and a powerful gun, is one of the lazier, more dissonant ideas possible in narrative-driven games that take that same aspect seriously. A climax is necessary, I agree (that's how many great things in life work, yes? ;) ), and having a final or penultimate level be that climax is a much better, more satisfying, more coherent solution. I wouldn't call Area 51 or Omega Ranch boss fights though.

Bullet sponges are good too. There is no climax if you headshot the boss as soon as you begin and it's all over. In my latest playthrough of System Shock 2 I dropped down, fired 2 EMP shots at SHODAN and it was game over. That in combination with the horrible cutscenes that follow is about as anti-climatic as it gets. A terrible ending to an amazing game.

But yes, if you are having bullet sponges and the game is meant to be immersive then they need full head to toe body armor of sorts (Syphon Filter 2 did this well, actually it did all boss fights well by giving them full body armour, a helicopter, a squad of elite soldiers to battle through etc, but when you get them unarmoured they go down in a headshot) or to be large all-powerful types. DX:HR's Hyron Core had potential to be a great boss fight, but alas it was over quicker than the Tyrants which only had dermal armour...

Also I like how you mentioned Omega Ranch, not Panchaea. ;)

I don't get why Barret didn't wear a reinforced full-head helmet thingy, such a small change would have made the boss fight much better (but still bad).
Sure, he is meant to have dermal armour but emptying sniper mags and revolver rounds into his head for 2 minutes is very immersion breaking.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 15:05
Some games lend themselves well to boss fights. Games like Dark Souls and pretty much any turn-based RPG especially, but FPS games like Deus Ex don't need it (especially story-driven FPS).

I mean, the Burke fight feels less like a boss fight and more like that final hurdle between you and your goal. Bullet spongey crap does my head in, I've never enjoyed that kind of stuff and wish devs would just do away with the notion of boss fights entirely, unless the situation calls for it of course.

Also, I used cheats in Doom, and absolutely loved those games, but **** doing the bosses without godmode activated >_>

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 15:09
Some games lend themselves well to boss fights. Games like Dark Souls and pretty much any turn-based RPG especially, but FPS games like Deus Ex don't need it (especially story-driven FPS).

I mean, the Burke fight feels less like a boss fight and more like that final hurdle between you and your goal. Bullet spongey crap does my head in, I've never enjoyed that kind of stuff and wish devs would just do away with the notion of boss fights entirely, unless the situation calls for it of course.

Also, I used cheats in Doom, and absolutely loved those games, but **** doing the bosses without godmode activated >_>

Noob ;)

I was going to recommend Brutal Doom to you, a very fun gameplay-enhancing mod, but the AI is tougher so...(Cyberdemon gets a stomp attack and Spider Mastermind has explosive chain gun, for two).

Bullet sponges are in DX1. Simons and the mechs are bullet sponges, but are given believable reasons for it- dermal armor, ballistic protection or whatever. Also even standard enemies in DX1 are bullet sponges, you can headshot enemies and they do not go down if your skill level/gun damage isn't high enough, especially with the assault gun.

Bossfights & bulletsponges very much belong in shooters, even story driven ones. Just if you are trying to be a sim/realistic, then give reason for it. Fallout: New vegas,the game that currently holds the record for most dialogue in a game ever, has bullet sponges everywhere you look. Unfortunately no believable reason is given for it, one of FO:NV's few flaws. But there was no reason they could give, as it is meant to be a wasteland with little resources, but gameplay wins, hence bullet sponges with no explanation. If I could pop the heads of all human characters in one shot in FO:NV with any weapon, it just wouldn't be a challenge.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 15:18
Haven't played DX1 or 2, heard 2 is terribad but meh, I prefer to judge for myself.

Not played new vegas, the fallout series has just never interested me. Love the TES series, though I did only start due to Skyrim.

And bullet sponges annoy me because, as far as I am concerned, a headshot is a headshot is a headshot. If my aim sucks, but by pure chance I hit you in the heat, the bullet isn't gonna tear through your cranium and brain matter any less because I'm unskilled with that particular weapon.

It's why I hate those massive heavy rifle guys in HR, I hit them in their unprotected head with a sniper rifle round and it doesn't kill them. It's stupid. I can understand their huge armoured suits taking a massive beating, but all they have on their heads is those thin skin-tight masks.

JCpies
11th Oct 2013, 15:24
WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THE FORUMS????

GO AND PLAY DEUS EX!!!!

Seriously, there's no time to waste.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 15:28
Haven't played DX1 or 2, heard 2 is terribad but meh, I prefer to judge for myself.

Not played new vegas, the fallout series has just never interested me. Love the TES series, though I did only start due to Skyrim.

And bullet sponges annoy me because, as far as I am concerned, a headshot is a headshot is a headshot. If my aim sucks, but by pure chance I hit you in the heat, the bullet isn't gonna tear through your cranium and brain matter any less because I'm unskilled with that particular weapon.

It's why I hate those massive heavy rifle guys in HR, I hit them in their unprotected head with a sniper rifle round and it doesn't kill them. It's stupid. I can understand their huge armoured suits taking a massive beating, but all they have on their heads is those thin skin-tight masks.

At the end of the day, gameplay>realism.

You like Doom and you cannot even perform headshots in that game. Heck the spiders are brains with mech legs yet are bullet sponges.
You like elder Scrolls and there isn't even a multiplier for headshots with arrows at all (maybe, but if I'm wrong then it works the same as every other game, just a multiplier not guaranteed instant death).

Btw Fallout series is the ****, and has objectively better design overall than Elder Scrolls. I used to like Elder Scrolls, but then I took a...I mean Skyrim and Oblivion happened. Still a Morrowind fan but even it's a very flawed game in design. I haven't replayed it in about 6 years which also says a lot, but it is still a classic.

The Brutal Doom mod adds headshot hitboxes for most enemies btw, but again, it's just a multiplier like almost every other game, no guarantee to instakill, and for good reason.

Edit: and I'm not saying EVERY game should have bullet sponges, it is nice when human enemies behave realistically when a game is trying to be realistic, but bullet sponges shouldn't be something looked down on, they have their place.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 15:43
First off, if you're playing Doom for any kind of Realism or taking that game seriously in any way, then you are most assuredly doing it wrong.

No, it's not instant death for headshots in Skyrim, but the combat is so very far from being one of the games strong points anyway that it doesn't really matter.

I like some things to be believable if not realistic, if that makes any sense. And I mean believable within the context of the world the game is set in, not necessarily believable within the context of real life.

Jerion
11th Oct 2013, 15:51
I agree on the Fallout > TES thing, though for very shallow reasons. Point of interest, I remember New Vegas having climactic moments, but outside of Deathclaws I don't recall it having many bullet sponges, let alone traditional boss fights.

Thing is...I value gameplay quite a lot. Yet I've been playing FPS games since the genre was invented, starting with Wolfenstein 3D. GMDX in HR is a bit satisfying, but it isn't that challenging IMO. I dislike bullet sponge enemies not because they offer a challenge, but because they're a grind, a slog. Gameplay is important to me but fighting isn't what draws me in any more. I'm there for the full experience, gameplay, narrative and all; being forced into drawn-out fighting just frustrates me. That's why I still haven't finished Borderlands 2: It just keeps throwing more and more mindless enemies at me, inevitably capped off by bosses/badasses. The loop of "aim, headshot, strafe, reload, jump/crouch, repeat" is a nice side dish, but it's just lacking as a main entree. This is a big part of the reason why I leave most pure FPS games behind and enjoy the hybrid games like Dishonored, Fallout NV and Deus Ex.

And I'm back to food metaphors again.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 16:02
remember New Vegas having climactic moments, but outside of Deathclaws I don't recall it having many bullet sponges, let alone traditional boss fights.

9mm pistol vs Veteran Legionnaire= probably about 200 headshots to kill as you will not be breaking his damage threshold. Enemy hp values do scale with difficulty but even on easy if you are not breaking the DT you wont be instakilling them.


Gameplay is important to me but fighting isn't what draws me in any more. I'm there for the full experience, gameplay, narrative and all; being forced into drawn-out fighting just frustrates me.

I'm there for the full experience too, but the fighting is probably my favourite aspect.


That's why I still haven't finished Borderlands 2: It just keeps throwing more and more mindless enemies at me, inevitably capped off by bosses/badasses. The loop of "aim, headshot, strafe, reload, jump/crouch, repeat" is a nice side dish, but it's just lacking as a main entree. This is a big part of the reason why I leave most pure FPS games behind and enjoy the hybrid games like Dishonored, Fallout NV and Deus Ex.

Borderlands isn't a particularly great couple of games anyway, but at least they are somewhat unique.

Yeah, pure FPS has gone stale too but I blame the developers for designing them terribly these days.

"Side dish"? What is the main for you then in regards to gameplay? The experience as a whole, yes, but Deus Ex without stealth or combat, that would be a laugh, right? Sure, would still be a great game, but it needs that chunk, the meat of the dish. (or Soya for the veggies here).


And I'm back to food metaphors again.

Food is great. It's use as a metaphor for gameplay is a good one :).

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 16:12
First off, if you're playing Doom for any kind of Realism or taking that game seriously in any way, then you are most assuredly doing it wrong.

No, it's not instant death for headshots in Skyrim, but the combat is so very far from being one of the games strong points anyway that it doesn't really matter.

I like some things to be believable if not realistic, if that makes any sense. And I mean believable within the context of the world the game is set in, not necessarily believable within the context of real life.

Exactly, so bullet sponges do have their place in FPS. Even if a game is trying to be realistic, you can still have them by giving reason for it's existence (dermal armour, all-powerful type enemy, full body armour etc).

Even if there is no reason given, meh, it's not a big deal. Sure it can break immersion but gameplay>realism/immersion. Again though, if you can give reason for it then you should.

One thing I do not understand in Metal Gear Solid. This game series probably has the most believable human AI ever, highly reactive, always go down in a headshot, relentlessly hunt you down etc....but then the bossfights completely contradict all of that, just give them full body armour next time, Hideo, and I can believe shooting Revolver Ocelot in the head repeatedly wont kill him...

One time the Gameplay>realism excuse wont work here, as they have done so darn well with the standard AI enemy types and the game does try to be very realistic outside some wacky elements.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 16:15
Yeah, but I'm talking specifically about headshots, especially with high powered sniper rifles and the like. Skeletal armour may be a thing in the DX universe, but that's still a metal object smashing into your skull at several hundred miles an hour. Armour or not, you're going down.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 16:31
Yeah, but I'm talking specifically about headshots, especially with high powered sniper rifles and the like. Skeletal armour may be a thing in the DX universe, but that's still a metal object smashing into your skull at several hundred miles an hour. Armour or not, you're going down.

Sure, it's a valid complaint for games that try to be realistic, it's Immersion killing, but it's not something worthy of hate. Overall though if I had to choose bullet Sponge Barret or Barret who died in a headshot I'd pick the former, because bosses should be a challenge, but my true choice would be give him armour for his damn head so he is a plausible bullet sponge (as well as other options to defeat him since it's Deus Ex).

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 16:41
Another problem I have with Barett, other than him being an annoying bullet sponge and the whole fight being obnoxiously forced and contrived, is that I defeated him without firing a shot, and yet he's riddled with bullets in the cutscene that plays after the fight ends. It really shows how silly the fight is when you beat him by chucking explosive barrels at him, yet the cutscene never changes.

CyberP
11th Oct 2013, 17:30
Another problem I have with Barett, other than him being an annoying bullet sponge and the whole fight being obnoxiously forced and contrived, is that I defeated him without firing a shot, and yet he's riddled with bullets in the cutscene that plays after the fight ends. It really shows how silly the fight is when you beat him by chucking explosive barrels at him, yet the cutscene never changes.

Yep, that's shiny cutscenes for ya. Too costly to vary based on player actions. There should have been no cutscene here or no barrels, but no barrels is even further limiting to playstyles. This is one of many things DX:HR got wrong, DX1 was a simulation in design (whilst never sacrificing fun), it attempted to react believably to players actions. For example, there is a "boss fight" halfway through the game, the "boss" is blocking the exit, whom once she sees the player, attempts to have a banter before fighting honourably to the death, but if the player just blows here up before she gets close, BOOM, no conversation, game continues. If you blow her up even earlier, more impressively is that the dialogue from quite a few characters changes, reacting to the kill that, at that point in time in the plot, was not an obvious thing to do. This was mind blowing back in the day, well, and now really as not many games reach Deus Ex's depth and reactivity at all. It's not consistent, as the game doesn't react to everything, of course, but it does react to quite a lot. I do wish the devs spent a little more time on the game, adding even more reactions and little details but it's still arguably the greatest game of all time and very in-depth, even today.

Only Fallout: New Vegas surpasses DX1's overall depth whilst still being a very good game, genius design. Skyrim, that game arguably surpasses DX1's overall depth, but it's a lacklustre game.

DX:HR, well, not so genius design, greater depth of very few things, mostly graphics detail (naturally) and AI behaviour in combat. Still a cool game though, how could it not be since it takes some things from DX.

Wait, I am wasting my time talking to you, Prototype, Skyrim, what's next, Gears of War and Assassin's Creed? :rolleyes:

Modern devs ruined this industry!

/Gamer Snob Rant

Edit: One more thing. For me, there are lots of little things about DX:HR that tell a story. They outsourced the bossfights, that's fair enough, time & manpower is an issue, but you can be sure as **** I would have given strict instructions/rules for them to follow. It's as if they handed the role over to them and said "do whatever the **** you want"..almost. Sure, there would have been some guidelines given but clearly there was miscommunication here and somebody who didn't have a damn clue designed them.

Doozerpindan
11th Oct 2013, 23:31
Hey, Prototype's a good game! Assassin's Creed can go fall off a cliff, so can gears of war for that matter. I've put over 3k hours into Skyrim and I feel exactly no shame.

I was blown away when I walked into Adam's apartment, just the atmosphere there is amazing. Not a single word is spoken and yet you learn so much about Adam just by looking around.

The lack of decorations, the unpacked boxes, the table with the solitary work projects going on, and most importantly, the smashed mirror in the bathroom. These all tell you that Adam Jensen is a lonely and tortured man who is having great trouble accepting who, and most importantly what he has become. He hates himself so much he can't even bear to look at himself, so much he cannot bear to be around others and hides away in his home with his projects rather than interacting with and getting close to people.

That is what I play games for, those moments where the game just stops you and all but forces you to look around and see what's there, telling you a story without uttering a word. Can't think of many games that have tugged at my heart strings and made me genuinely care for a character and wish for happiness for them quite like that.

CyberP
12th Oct 2013, 05:59
I was blown away when I walked into Adam's apartment, just the atmosphere there is amazing. Not a single word is spoken and yet you learn so much about Adam just by looking around.

The lack of decorations, the unpacked boxes, the table with the solitary work projects going on, and most importantly, the smashed mirror in the bathroom. These all tell you that Adam Jensen is a lonely and tortured man who is having great trouble accepting who, and most importantly what he has become. He hates himself so much he can't even bear to look at himself, so much he cannot bear to be around others and hides away in his home with his projects rather than interacting with and getting close to people.

That is what I play games for, those moments where the game just stops you and all but forces you to look around and see what's there, telling you a story without uttering a word. Can't think of many games that have tugged at my heart strings and made me genuinely care for a character and wish for happiness for them quite like that.

Stick around, EM deserves your praise as counter to mine and others moaning. :whistle: We need balance up in here, more mobile gamers, Skyrim fans & HERESY's! :wave:

Doozerpindan
12th Oct 2013, 06:08
Hah, no, I'm a Bioware fanboy already, EM's on their own :p

But yeah, I've played HR through at least a dozen times, I love the game and can't wait for the DC to come out. I may even do an LP of it and stick it on YT, depends if I can work up the nerve.

CyberP
12th Oct 2013, 06:09
I'm a Bioware fanboy already

Even worse :D


I may even do an LP of it and stick it on YT, depends if I can work up the nerve.

Why not. Do it. Nothing to lose, right?

Doozerpindan
12th Oct 2013, 06:15
Even worse :D

Hey, I resemble that remark! *shakes fist*

Seriously though, I love Bioware, but I certainly don't love all of their games. The Mass Effect series doesn't interest me in the slightest but I am in love with the Dragon Age games, for example.


Why not. Do it. Nothing to lose, right?

True enough, I mean, you don't know if you don't try.

CyberP
12th Oct 2013, 06:28
The Mass Effect series doesn't interest me in the slightest but I am in love with the Dragon Age games, for example.

Even more worse :D

Seems you like mythical, slightly Tolkien-inspired worlds. Try Arx Fatalis, that's my favourite of the bunch, but not an exceptional game by any means, just really damn good. The challenge (mostly the puzzles) may put you off though.

Doozerpindan
12th Oct 2013, 06:40
I don't mind puzzles so long as they're not obnoxious like the ones in Soul Reaver 2 (fantastic game, but good god were the puzzles annoying).

I've not read any Tolkien Books, those are the ones about the wizard living in the room under the stairs, right? ;)

In all seriousness though, there are people who claim LOTR is a rip-off of Harry Potter.

Captain Mazda
12th Oct 2013, 16:50
I must be the only person who enjoyed fighting Barrett.

After sneaking around and doing silent take outs, it was fun to let loose with the loud guns and explosives.

I think there should be non-boss soldiers like Fedorova. We already have titular opponents and opponents that stealth, so imagine facing off against a stealth sprinter that can "hop" over certain obstacles, flank you quickly and pursue you through the streets.

Mirror's Edge had that towards the end of the game when you had to evade free-running super-cops that could perform all of your moves and take you down instantly if you stumbled.

Captain Mazda
12th Oct 2013, 16:56
The lack of decorations, the unpacked boxes, the table with the solitary work projects going on, and most importantly, the smashed mirror in the bathroom. These all tell you that Adam Jensen is a lonely and tortured man who is having great trouble accepting who, and most importantly what he has become. He hates himself so much he can't even bear to look at himself, so much he cannot bear to be around others and hides away in his home with his projects rather than interacting with and getting close to people.

That is what I play games for, those moments where the game just stops you and all but forces you to look around and see what's there, telling you a story without uttering a word. Can't think of many games that have tugged at my heart strings and made me genuinely care for a character and wish for happiness for them quite like that.

The story was the best part of DX:HR. I cared about Jensen and his mission, but the immersion was constantly ruined by bad AI, awful voice acting, less-than-stellar graphics, and overall a game that felt rushed and neutered, topped off with a contrived ending. It had so much potential (just like Mass Effect) but this is how games are these days. Prematurely-ejaculated offspring of a great concept left on the cutting room floor.

Doozerpindan
12th Oct 2013, 18:04
The story was the best part of DX:HR. I cared about Jensen and his mission, but the immersion was constantly ruined by bad AI, awful voice acting, less-than-stellar graphics, and overall a game that felt rushed and neutered, topped off with a contrived ending. It had so much potential (just like Mass Effect) but this is how games are these days. Prematurely-ejaculated offspring of a great concept left on the cutting room floor.

The AI is kinda terrible, but it could be worse, it could be Skyrim.

I didn't think the voice acting or the dialogue was bad at all, though it's certainly not the best I have ever heard. If you want truly bad dialogue & voice acting then play Enchanted Arms. Actually, don't, nobody deserves that.

I loved the graphics and the aesthetic of the game, but graphics are never much of a selling point for me considering I am a fan of older games. What I didn't like was the animations, the way NPCs cycle through a short set of movements all throughout any conversation, it looks utterly ridiculous at times.

The ending was a massive disappointment, I'll give you that. Thirty hours of gameplay (thirty hours when you've played it through a dozen times and know where everything is) and a truly amazing story and fantastic characters, and the final choice is literally pressing a button (I knocked out Hugh, shot Taggart and sided with Sarif). Tbh I was hoping Malik and Jensen would hook up, they seemed to develop feelings for each other as the game went on.

CyberP
12th Oct 2013, 18:22
The AI is kinda terrible, but it could be worse, it could be Skyrim.

The AI is pretty good. Name one game that has stealth, combat, loads of different states and player actions to take into account etc where the AI is exceptional. I'd say Metal Gear Solid is the only one, but it too has it's flaws and the game is lacking in other areas instead.


I didn't think the voice acting or the dialogue was bad at all, though it's certainly not the best I have ever heard. If you want truly bad dialogue & voice acting then play Enchanted Arms. Actually, don't, nobody deserves that.

Voice acting too was pretty good, especially for the main characters.


I loved the graphics and the aesthetic of the game, but graphics are never much of a selling point for me considering I am a fan of older games. What I didn't like was the animations, the way NPCs cycle through a short set of movements all throughout any conversation, it looks utterly ridiculous at times.

Graphics were fine, I'm not fussy there too, as graphics are the least important aspect to a game (but still important). Aesthetic was repetitive and not suitable for DX, though still deserves some recognition, and has good points (weapons are one).
Repetitive NPC conversation anims were immersion breaking too, but it's minor.


The ending was a massive disappointment, I'll give you that. Thirty hours of gameplay (thirty hours when you've played it through a dozen times and know where everything is) and a truly amazing story and fantastic characters, and the final choice is literally pressing a button (I knocked out Hugh, shot Taggart and sided with Sarif). Tbh I was hoping Malik and Jensen would hook up, they seemed to develop feelings for each other as the game went on.

Not a truly amazing story, but not terrible either. Some fantastic characters in there, yes. Crappy ending, yes, but the journey matters so much more than the destination. Still should have been better though.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 00:59
The AI is pretty good. Name one game that has stealth, combat, loads of different states and player actions to take into account etc where the AI is exceptional. I'd say Metal Gear Solid is the only one, but it too has it's flaws and the game is lacking in other areas instead.

Yeah, was thinking after I posted that the ai wasn't that bad actually. Don't the NPCs change their patrols if you get found? I noticed that a bunch of times.

The kind of AI I hate is where enemies are magnetically drawn to you (as in Skyrim and any GTA game), meaning it's near impossible to hide.


Voice acting too was pretty good, especially for the main characters.

Yes, I quite liked the voice acting, the only laughable bit is when you're in the elevator for the hyde park/fema mission and David Sarif says a line about their stuff being government issue or something like that, and he genuinely sounds drunk. Not sure why the voice actor fumbled the line like that, but it's the only badly delivered line I can think of.


Graphics were fine, I'm not fussy there too, as graphics are the least important aspect to a game (but still important). Aesthetic was repetitive and not suitable for DX, though still deserves some recognition, and has good points (weapons are one).

Repetitive NPC conversation anims were immersion breaking too, but it's minor.

Yes, they become amusing as much as immersion breaking after a while.


Not a truly amazing story, but not terrible either. Some fantastic characters in there, yes. Crappy ending, yes, but the journey matters so much more than the destination. Still should have been better though.

I love the story (though my vote for story of the year goes to Bioshock Infinite, that game blow Human Revolution out of the water in all areas except combat and exploration. I loved being able to sneak around in HR and approach objectives in different ways etc, and you can't do that kind of stuff in Infinite), and really hope they make a HR 2.

The kind of game I'm hoping for is one where you're playing as Adam again, only now he's qorking with Quinn, Janus, Ben Saxon and Anna Kelso. Perhaps Adam's also let Malik, Pritchard and Haas in on it and they're all helping him out too.

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 01:42
I love the story (though my vote for story of the year goes to Bioshock Infinite, that game blow Human Revolution out of the water in all areas except combat and exploration.

Sorry, but BS:I didn't blow a damn thing out of the water. Not a damn thing. Flaw after flaw and what is good there is merely a shadow of System Shock 2. About the only credits I can give are:

-Art Style & graphics overall.
-Actually offered a challenge (a poorly designed challenge), whilst the original Bioshock games did not offer a challenge at all.

What I am not qualified to have an opinion on as I gave up about 70% through in disappointment: Story, but the storytelling was glorified Call of Duty techniques with a bit of System Shock fragments in there. They totally failed, in my opinion, but everybody was riding the hype train as per norm.

If you are a fan of Irrational, and enjoy old games, then definitely check out System Shock 2. It's just that much more smarter, I barely believe it was designed and written by the same guy (Ken Levine, Lead Designer and Lead Writer).

So maybe BS:I's story was good in the end, but that is the only thing I cannot judge, I know the gameplay doesn't get any better that's for sure and from what I do know I'll take DX:HR over it, even though it's nothing special either, but at least it has half-decent gameplay and the storytelling techniques don't make me want to bang my head on a wall.

I am exaggerating some, there was good moments in BS:I storytelling, but overall it's a failure imo. They tried to make Elizabeth believable and even failed there except in the overused, forcefully take-the-control-away-from-the-player scenes. Outside those scenes she is totally unbelievable. Resident Evil 4 did a escort the female through a mad world game better, even if Ashley was annoying as **** and the plot is fail, at least she never breaks character, reacts to events and player actions appropriately and is believable.

Where is Frank? I'd like to know what he has to say about it, he's the man to talk to when it comes to all things story.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 01:58
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then, I love Infinite, though it does have its flaws.

HR's cover system & combat were far superior to Infinite, while Infinite had better loot management.

As for System Shock, I've never played it. I've played Bioshock 1 recently for the first time, gave up after getting all the way to the second to last level before encountering an unavoidable game breaking bug, and there's no way I'm going through all that again when there's no way to actively avoid the bug. Infinite has a better story than the first Bioshock, also has better characters and is just a better game, though I did quite like B1's big reveal halfway through the game.

I'll check out System Shock though, might be fun.

EDIT: I'm not sure what's unbelievable, really. Would you rather the whole game be like an escort quest from WoW instead, cos **** that.

Also, who's Frank?

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 02:19
HR's cover system & combat were far superior to Infinite, while Infinite had better loot management.

:/


I'll check out System Shock though, might be fun.

System Shock 2. System Shock 1 is for the truly dedicated.


EDIT: I'm not sure what's unbelievable, really. Would you rather the whole game be like an escort quest from WoW instead, cos **** that.

Not played WoW, MMO is about the only genre I don't have a damn clue about (but I do know it features annoying real-life humans, lol), but if the characters you are forced to escort behave believably, then yes.


Also, who's Frank?

FrankCSIS, International Man of Mystery.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 02:29
:/

It's true, I couldn't stick to the wall and peer around corners in Infinite and I had to deal with the bizarre stacking system etc in HR which is just irritating as hell.


System Shock 2. System Shock 1 is for the truly dedicated.

Just saw the trailer, looks like a "Half Life 1 Meets Deus Ex 1" kind of game.


Not played WoW, but if the characters you are forced to escort behave believably, then yes.

Hahahahahaha!!! No, no they really don't... >_>


FrankCSIS, International Man of Mystery.

Means nothing to me, sorry.

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 02:42
It's true, I couldn't stick to the wall and peer around corners in Infinite and I had to deal with the bizarre stacking system etc in HR which is just irritating as hell.

Leaning (if it were to be implemented as it should have been in the first place in both BS:I and DX:HR) solves the first issue without breaking immersion or being overpowered, inventory auto-sort option in HR solves the second "issue". *shakes fist*


Just saw the trailer, looks like a "Half Life 1 Meets Deus Ex 1" kind of game

Something like that. I prefer "Bioshock but 10x smarter and 10x more fun". Also, trailers are a bad choice to form an opinion, often times they are terribly misleading. System Shock 2's old one makes it look like a FPS with a few RPG elements, the new GOG one makes it look like a horror game when it is actually a First Person Role-playing Survival Horror Immersive Sim. And what a genre blender it is.

If you found DX:HR's inventory system "terribly irritating" and think Doom's bosses require god mode then I retract my recommendation, actually.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 02:48
Oh, I know trailers are terrible. The Human Revolution trailers didn't interest me at all, then I saw Jesse Cox's LP of the game and had to get it myself.

It was the same thing back when DS9 first came out. The trailer for some reason gave me the idea I would hate the series, but after watching it I have to say it fast became my fav Star Trek series.

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 03:28
Here you go, check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsG2sLc7dk
All genius improvements except the third person takedowns and silly taunts, but those truly are optional.

Doom more than holds up with this mod, believe it or not.

We need more gameplay mods like this, good gameplay mods are so rare.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 03:52
Here you go, check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzsG2sLc7dk
All genius improvements except the third person takedowns and silly taunts, but those truly are optional.

Doom more than holds up with this mod, believe it or not.

We need more gameplay mods like this, good gameplay mods are so rare.

Nice mod, though the gore gets really old really fast (and yes, the taunts and takedowns are kinda silly/pointless). The reviewer's pretty good too, so I subbed, even though they've not uploaded a vid in nine months.

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 04:02
It's not about the gore, all about the gameplay.

Doozerpindan
13th Oct 2013, 04:16
I know, excessive gore bores me is all; be it games, tv shows/films, books or whatever.

Having blood and body parts splatered everywhere has the "Ew gross!" factor, sure, but it doesn't beat the psychological impact of (this is a made up example) seeing a trail of blood that suggests a body was dragged, and following that trail to a closed door, you open the door and behind it is a perfectly organised child's bedroom with not a drop of blood anywhere. It's a thing that leaves you wondering what happened, and what's going to happen. It has an even greater effect if there's no jump scare upon entering or leaving the room, because the expectation that something will happen is far more effective and long-lasting than "Oh, look, more blood."

CyberP
13th Oct 2013, 06:48
I know, excessive gore bores me is all; be it games, tv shows/films, books or whatever.

Having blood and body parts splatered everywhere has the "Ew gross!" factor, sure, but it doesn't beat the psychological impact of (this is a made up example) seeing a trail of blood that suggests a body was dragged, and following that trail to a closed door, you open the door and behind it is a perfectly organised child's bedroom with not a drop of blood anywhere. It's a thing that leaves you wondering what happened, and what's going to happen. It has an even greater effect if there's no jump scare upon entering or leaving the room, because the expectation that something will happen is far more effective and long-lasting than "Oh, look, more blood."

Depends on the story attempting to be told/genre. If it's a psychological horror, that works great, if it's a brutal action movie or whatever, gore can be a shock...though I wouldn't be watching an action movie for the gore but for the meat of the dish, the action (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LV4shsn5EQ).

As you like psychological horror, then I again recommend System Shock 2, as that's another thing it does very well.

Shralla
13th Oct 2013, 07:44
Violence is important and like all other things should be used in moderation. Drive would not have been the movie it was without the handful of violent scenes. And to spawn off that, Hotline Miami would not have been the neon nightmare that it came out to be if the violence had been toned down.

Darthassin
13th Oct 2013, 10:18
I personaly hated Drive. But carry on.

Captain Mazda
14th Oct 2013, 07:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xL4-BDbjA

Galatele
14th Oct 2013, 11:42
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen from the Eidos forums:wave:

I have several questions to you about the upcoming Director's Cut Version for Deus ex Human Revolution on PC.

First question: There are new features like grenade throwback, smart vision plus which allows you to analyse your enemies and the ability to move the camera after hacking it, will we get those features also on PC or is it gamepad/smartglass etc. exclusive?

Second Question: About The missing link and the items you collect there, do we still have those items after beating The missing link or do they disappear?

Please help me finding answer for those questions because i really love Human Revolution and with those new features,i'm sure it will be the best version of Deus ex,but i only own a PC.

CyberP
14th Oct 2013, 13:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xL4-BDbjA

You should see Deus Ex 1's.

All of the complex games have AI issues. The reason a game like FEAR or Halo does not is because they are terribly linear, have simple gameplay and level design, not many player actions to take into account, easy to script for.

Jerion
14th Oct 2013, 14:07
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen from the Eidos forums:wave:

I have several questions to you about the upcoming Director's Cut Version for Deus ex Human Revolution on PC.

First question: There are new features like grenade throwback, smart vision plus which allows you to analyse your enemies and the ability to move the camera after hacking it, will we get those features also on PC or is it gamepad/smartglass etc. exclusive?

Second Question: About The missing link and the items you collect there, do we still have those items after beating The missing link or do they disappear?

Please help me finding answer for those questions because i really love Human Revolution and with those new features,i'm sure it will be the best version of Deus ex,but i only own a PC.

I don't entirely know the answer to your first question, though more likely than not features will have been translated as comprehensively as possible.

As The Missing Link episode has been seamlessly integrated into the central game, presumably any items and choices you acquire and make in TML will carry over into the following levels.

Personally I'm more interested in TML integration for how it fleshes out the story in the last act of the game. I think its particular narrative focus adds a necessary bit of context and support for the very last major plot points in Panacea.

CyberP
14th Oct 2013, 14:10
As The Missing Link episode has been seamlessly integrated into the central game, presumably any items and choices you acquire and make in TML will carry over into the following levels.

What about old equipment and augs? Hopefully you get your equipment back but not all those praxis.

Jerion
14th Oct 2013, 14:15
What about old equipment and augs? Hopefully you get your equipment back but not all those praxis.

I have to guess that in terms of augs you essentially get reset to zero after leaving Hengsha, and have to respec for the last act of the game during TML. I hope but simply don't know for certain that players will be able to recover personalized equipment. It would make sense to me that one or two previously upgraded weapons might be dropped in with the other stashed supplies on the cargo ship, perhaps determined by the player's lethal/non-lethal choices or weapon favoritism (pretty sure they track those stats).

Galatele
14th Oct 2013, 14:31
I don't entirely know the answer to your first question, though more likely than not features will have been translated as comprehensively as possible.

As The Missing Link episode has been seamlessly integrated into the central game, presumably any items and choices you acquire and make in TML will carry over into the following levels.

Personally I'm more interested in TML integration for how it fleshes out the story in the last act of the game. I think its particular narrative focus adds a necessary bit of context and support for the very last major plot points in Panacea.

WOW thank you very much Jerion:) I'm very happy to see people who are really investing their time into the community. As for those new features i really hope they implemented that because the new Augmentation (Smart Vision Plus) is a very neat addition same goes for grenade throwback and moving the camera after hacking the computer. The ability to move the camera after hacking it reminds me of Deus ex 1 so it will be a good thing. I noticed it in the FEMA camp Walkthrough.

Captain Mazda
3rd Nov 2013, 05:38
It's nice that they didn't bother fixing the Chet Wagner bug that prevents you from completing the Motherly Ties mission. Waste of time.

pirate1802
3rd Nov 2013, 09:03
Sorry, but BS:I didn't blow a damn thing out of the water. Not a damn thing. Flaw after flaw and what is good there is merely a shadow of System Shock 2. About the only credits I can give are:

-Art Style & graphics overall.
-Actually offered a challenge (a poorly designed challenge), whilst the original Bioshock games did not offer a challenge at all.

What I am not qualified to have an opinion on as I gave up about 70% through in disappointment: Story, but the storytelling was glorified Call of Duty techniques with a bit of System Shock fragments in there. They totally failed, in my opinion, but everybody was riding the hype train as per norm.

If you are a fan of Irrational, and enjoy old games, then definitely check out System Shock 2. It's just that much more smarter, I barely believe it was designed and written by the same guy (Ken Levine, Lead Designer and Lead Writer).

So maybe BS:I's story was good in the end, but that is the only thing I cannot judge, I know the gameplay doesn't get any better that's for sure and from what I do know I'll take DX:HR over it, even though it's nothing special either, but at least it has half-decent gameplay and the storytelling techniques don't make me want to bang my head on a wall.

I am exaggerating some, there was good moments in BS:I storytelling, but overall it's a failure imo. They tried to make Elizabeth believable and even failed there except in the overused, forcefully take-the-control-away-from-the-player scenes. Outside those scenes she is totally unbelievable. Resident Evil 4 did a escort the female through a mad world game better, even if Ashley was annoying as **** and the plot is fail, at least she never breaks character, reacts to events and player actions appropriately and is believable.

Where is Frank? I'd like to know what he has to say about it, he's the man to talk to when it comes to all things story.

:O Someone who doesn't like BS:I's story/telling! That's rare. I thought I was the only one. I too thought that while its story was very good, it was handicapped by poor call of duty-style storytelling as you put it and pacing problems which include putting too many set pieces to pad out the length of your game. In the end what you have is still, imo, a very good game, but not the epic storytelling masterpiece people told me it was, before I played it. Sorry for being offtopic, I just wanted to add this when I saw your post. Carry on people. :D

Captain Mazda
5th Nov 2013, 01:31
You should see Deus Ex 1's.

All of the complex games have AI issues. The reason a game like FEAR or Halo does not is because they are terribly linear, have simple gameplay and level design, not many player actions to take into account, easy to script for.

So we should be happy with the status quo of games over 8 years old? Are you ok with buying a lemon car because there are some cars out there from 10 years ago that have the same problems?

CyberP
5th Nov 2013, 04:33
So we should be happy with the status quo of games over 8 years old? Are you ok with buying a lemon car because there are some cars out there from 10 years ago that have the same problems?

The AI in Human Revolution was satisfactory. Sure it could be better but it's a matter of priorities and if anything should be better it's things like the RPG systems, better level design and so on. If they have the manpower and budget for better AI afterwards then great, expand, but as is I'd be perfectly happy if the AI behaviour in DX4 was copy n pasted from DX:HR, as long as everything else was satisfactory.
In short, Human Revolution has much bigger problems, but your complaint is not invalid.

That said, I think there are individual roles for "AI programmer" these days. If that was the case and one man did the AI then yes, should be better, but I don't think that was the case.

Hmm, the lemon car analogy...the video game industry has always been this way, no game is perfect, and it is complex work, also the price of games doesn't even come close to automobiles, so I think that is invalid.
I am accepting of imperfection, I just moan because the quality of gaming has dropped. The status quo from 8 years ago still being the status quo now would be great, it really would.


:O Someone who doesn't like BS:I's story/telling! That's rare. I thought I was the only one. I too thought that while its story was very good, it was handicapped by poor call of duty-style storytelling as you put it and pacing problems which include putting too many set pieces to pad out the length of your game. In the end what you have is still, imo, a very good game, but not the epic storytelling masterpiece people told me it was, before I played it. Sorry for being offtopic, I just wanted to add this when I saw your post. Carry on people. :D

Don't you worry there is more people out there that see it for what it really is. Mostly people who understand the medium's true potential.
BS:I is a failure, but a commercial success. Too many casual gamers out there.
I'm exaggerating again. The game truly is art (mostly visually), but far from an overall masterpiece.