PDA

View Full Version : I'm calling it now: DXHR sequel at E3!



oceanskie
1st Jun 2013, 03:22
I'm calling it now: DXHR sequel at E3!

No, I don't have any factual support for this but my magic 8-ball tells me it's going to be there.

Your thoughts?


Edit: Despite all the non-believers below, the prophecy cannot be denied. PRAISE BE TO 8-BALL!

https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal/status/341537040107712512



Edit 2: It is revealed with an announcement trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p1b8k469DbY

I just smashed my 8-ball to pieces. I DIDN'T ASK FOR THIS.

HERESY
1st Jun 2013, 05:22
No.

CyberP
1st Jun 2013, 07:57
My reply is no.

El_Bel
1st Jun 2013, 08:21
EM didn't show HR at E3 even after having it in development for 2 years. So no.

JCpies
1st Jun 2013, 10:39
Yeah No

Unless Square puts out a teaser similar to the heart animation thing.

FrankCSIS
1st Jun 2013, 13:16
As someone else pointed out, Square has a pretty large booth, for a company with so few upcoming games announced. Might very well be a case of "we can't take a smaller booth than Ubisoft or EA" though.

I really don't see them announcing anything like this at E3. It's not EM's M.O.

AlexOfSpades
1st Jun 2013, 15:00
Nope.

Shralla
1st Jun 2013, 17:57
I just don't see it. It's not like they have their own event. They'd have to announce it at one of the console keynotes, which would exhibit favoritism to one of the manufacturers. While a number of companies seem content to do that (Bungie, Activision), that doesn't really strike me as SE's MO, especially since their suffering financially and need all the sales they can get.

Kamikave
1st Jun 2013, 19:47
I sure hope not. Took them 4 years to finish HR, and it still has a taste of unfinished product. If they release a sequel in less than 4 years after HR, I'm simply not interested. I don't want another Dragon Age 2.

Shralla
1st Jun 2013, 23:09
To be fair, that was four years to assemble an entirely new team, get to know everybody, determine the artistic look of the game, broke down the "four pillars" of game play, and then built a massive game on an engine that pretty much nobody involved had ever used before, and was clearly a poor choice for the game in the first place.

Sequels are always easier and faster to build because most of that is out of the way.

Reven
1st Jun 2013, 23:28
The only surprise I see coming out of a Square Enix booth at E3 is final fantasy versus xiii being moved to the PS4 along with a new FF title using the agni's philosophy showcase engine.

-Neon-
3rd Jun 2013, 15:05
So uh
http://24.media.tumblr.com/adad1314c491cf81ddeaecb3dd614817/tumblr_mntojxALm31qioqtlo1_1280.png

Ashpolt
3rd Jun 2013, 15:08
OooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHH. Exciting!

-Neon-
3rd Jun 2013, 15:16
Whenever I see a mention of The Fall, I think of "And Away We Go," the song that's played when Adam launches for Panchea.

AlexOfSpades
3rd Jun 2013, 15:34
Wow. If there's a new Deus Ex released during E3, i'm going to eat my own hat.

Ashpolt
3rd Jun 2013, 16:03
Spyhopping has just reminded me that The Fall is rumoured to be a movie, not a new game. That's much less interesting.

-Neon-
3rd Jun 2013, 16:23
I thought Human Defiance was to be the movie? Unless they just left it for that disappointing April Fools joke.

Ashpolt
3rd Jun 2013, 17:07
EM's latest tweet:

"Who is Ben Saxon? #DeusEx"

Cool! Could still be a movie though, of course.

Shralla
3rd Jun 2013, 17:20
Ugh, Derrick Robertson. Literally THE WORST choice they could have made.

HERESY
3rd Jun 2013, 17:52
Considering Ben Saxon was mentioned, and how Icarus fell from the sky, I can see how this ties in together. Still don't know if it's a game or not but whatever it is I need to learn more. I see EM is hiring like crazy now (and have been for the past couple of weeks) so who knows what's going on?

Spyhopping
3rd Jun 2013, 18:06
Ohhh I do hope it's a game. It'll still be fun if it's a film but ohhhh. Game please. Really liked Ben Saxon.

Who the flip is Derrick Robertson?

Shralla
3rd Jun 2013, 18:14
I meant Scott Derrickson, my bad.

HERESY
3rd Jun 2013, 18:22
I meant Scott Derrickson, my bad.

Like I told you before, stop hating on Scott Derrickson.

Shralla
3rd Jun 2013, 18:23
I'm allowed to hate on somebody who's bad at their job.

HERESY
3rd Jun 2013, 18:28
I'm allowed to hate on somebody who's bad at their job.

I've already explained this to you in previous classic posts. His movies = profit.

68_pie
3rd Jun 2013, 18:49
Money ≠ Quality

HERESY
3rd Jun 2013, 19:03
Money ≠ Quality

Tell that to the bean counters.

CyberP
3rd Jun 2013, 19:40
Tell that to the bean counters.

:(

Ilves
3rd Jun 2013, 21:10
EM's latest tweet:

"Who is Ben Saxon? #DeusEx"



Haven't read the novel, but I gather Saxon is the mercenary type... I wonder what that implies in terms of taking the franchise into a more military oriented direction, gameplay-wise and thematically.

Shralla
3rd Jun 2013, 21:13
Why you gotta make me worry like that? =/

Ilves
3rd Jun 2013, 21:21
I live to bring the sunshine. :D

Jerion
3rd Jun 2013, 21:58
Haven't read the novel, but I gather Saxon is the mercenary type... I wonder what that implies in terms of taking the franchise into a more military oriented direction, gameplay-wise and thematically.

...You should probably read the novel if that is what you imagine. :)

lmprv
3rd Jun 2013, 22:59
I'm so confused whether to be hyped or not, lol. Is it the game or the movie or a novel? I'd be looking forward to all three to be sure, with varying degrees of excitement anyway

The timing of the tweet is just mean though haha. One week before E3, it must be a game right? But also, maybe this is just like Human Defiance again - news websites twisting social media statements and getting excited for a new game, haha.

Also, I know absolutely nothing about game development or marketing, let's be clear! But you don't announce a game and (presumably) release a trailer at the same event as your studio's other flagship game's premiere gameplay footage, do you? Maybe there's other stuff at play, maybe I'm wrong? Or maybe it's the movie and they're riding on all that tv tv tv movie movie movie next-gen hype :D

I wonder how long the Deus Ex sequel will take, anyway? DXHR - from studio openng to release, took what, over 4 1/2 years? But that was starting the studio, building the team, developing a vision / universe, etc. I wonder if the sequel will take less work - they seem to know where they're going with the franchise, story-wise anyway (Missing Link is one big foreshadowing event IMHO). Or will they take a long time again and do everything from the bottom-up again? Fall 2014 is 3 years since DXHR... food for thought

HERESY
3rd Jun 2013, 23:29
Haven't read the novel, but I gather Saxon is the mercenary type... I wonder what that implies in terms of taking the franchise into a more military oriented direction, gameplay-wise and thematically.

No. Read the novel.

FrankCSIS
3rd Jun 2013, 23:48
The only reason I see to announce a new game at E3, and potentially overshadow Thief (oh oh oh) would be for enlisting purposes. The industry here is in perpetual dire need of fresh blood. Surely a much-covered E3 tease would rake in some CV's in the following days.

Tverdyj
4th Jun 2013, 03:40
hrrm.

Squeeenix don't strike me as E3 announcing-type. I'd say it's much more likely we'd get a DX reveal @ GDC or PAX.

This particular E3's agenda has already been set--it'll be all about answering the question of whether or not M$oft can salvage its XBone, or will they end up packing it in this gen. I don't see anyone or anything trying to upstage this angle.

FrankCSIS
4th Jun 2013, 03:46
Edit: Despite all the non-believers below, the prophecy cannot be denied. PRAISE BE TO 8-BALL!

https://twitter.com/eidosmontreal/status/341537040107712512

I am somewhat worried about people who disappear for ten long years, only to return and offer us a prophecy.

Last time you were seen was in 2003. You've got some explaining to do!

ResonanceCascade
4th Jun 2013, 04:33
The only reason I see to announce a new game at E3, and potentially overshadow Thief (oh oh oh) would be for enlisting purposes. The industry here is in perpetual dire need of fresh blood. Surely a much-covered E3 tease would rake in some CV's in the following days.

It makes perfect sense to me. Squeenix already announced that they want to get in the "frequent release" gravy train, and teasing a new Deus Ex would definitely fit that bill. Ubisoft is showing off Watch Dogs and AssCreed 3, among other things, so I don't think it's a big stretch to imagine that Square would show off two large franchises or more.

Also, it looks good to shareholders, which they need to do. "We have a huge slate of AAA products to show off at E3 this year, including a sequel to the massive hit, Deus Ex: Human Revolution."

Zoom way out on this graph and anyone who's wondering why that's important will see:

https://www.google.com/finance?cid=526087179561972

68_pie
4th Jun 2013, 10:06
Surely the big marketing push at E3 will be Thief?

SageSavage
4th Jun 2013, 10:16
Concept Art leaked:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18pqg5rx5zn7ajpg/ku-xlarge.jpg


(Ok, I lied.)

Ashpolt
4th Jun 2013, 10:27
Surely the big marketing push at E3 will be Thief?

There's room to push more than one game. After all, all of their competitors are going to be pushing games, and it doesn't make any difference to Johnny Averagegamer if Game X is made by EM or someone else, it's going to be competing with Thief for attention either way.

Spyhopping
4th Jun 2013, 10:55
If it's an announcement and a new teaser with a bunch of images then I doubt it'll steal the spotlight. It'll just sort of make it bigger.

I'm rather excited about this. EM were a brand new studio when we were hearing about HR for the first time, so the marketing will probably be structured quite differently this time around!

Fox, that is a gorgeous bit of art which I'm not recognising. Where'd that come from?

SageSavage
4th Jun 2013, 11:47
Fox, that is a gorgeous bit of art which I'm not recognising. Where'd that come from?

It's from an yet unannounced project and was created by an artist called Daniel Dociu (who is the art director of the studio Arenanet and Guild Wars 2).
http://www.awesome-robo.com/2013/06/into-pixel-2013-winners-arenanet-teases.html

oceanskie
4th Jun 2013, 13:03
Thanks to DaBuddaDa on NeoGAF for reminding us that this is unlikely to be a movie:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/03/06/deus-ex-the-fall-trademarked-while-human-defiance-points-towar/

Thread here http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=575113

Spyhopping
4th Jun 2013, 13:08
It's from an yet unannounced project and was created by an artist called Daniel Dociu (who is the art director of the studio Arenanet and Guild Wars 2).
http://www.awesome-robo.com/2013/06/into-pixel-2013-winners-arenanet-teases.html

Cheers, I'll be keeping my eyes open for what ever is going on there. Excellent atmosphere.

This post from NeoGAF is probably worth quoting.


Graphics Horse: If it's called The Fall can we expect a more orangey palette?

Pinky_Powers
4th Jun 2013, 14:45
He he.

Ilves
4th Jun 2013, 17:01
...You should probably read the novel if that is what you imagine. :)

So no mercs? Aussie landwar? No... canine warfighters? :(

Jerion
4th Jun 2013, 17:08
So no mercs? Aussie landwar? No... canine warfighters? :(

You added 2 and 2, but came up with fish. Just go read the novel. ;)

Pinky_Powers
4th Jun 2013, 17:14
You added 2 and 2, but came up with fish.

I read that Jesus did something like that.

oceanskie
5th Jun 2013, 14:10
updated my post with a link to trailer.

CyberP
5th Jun 2013, 14:44
"All-new Deus Ex game for iPhone & ipad"

"It was really important to make the game as simple to play as possible"

"Lock-on Shooting"

"we really hope you guys like it"

"It's really faithful to the Deus Ex franchise"

Yeah, RIP.

What a shame.

I never asked for this.

Square-Enix to expect massive losses within 6 months.

....and all other done to death Deus Ex jokes/memes that are highly relevant right now.

AlexOfSpades
5th Jun 2013, 16:00
Anna: Are you sure you opened the right video?

Gunther: I do not make mistakes of zat kind.

Anna: The devs might have slipped.

Gunther: NO, I VANTED PC GAME! It gave me mobile.

Anna: Eidos would not make a mistake.

Gunther: Its the Square Enix man. He knows i like PC game.

Anna: Do you think the publishers have some kind of plot?

Gunther: YES! ZEY DO IT ON PURPOZ!

Doom972
5th Jun 2013, 21:57
Anna: Are you sure you opened the right video?

Gunther: I do not make mistakes of zat kind.

Anna: The devs might have slipped.

Gunther: NO, I VANTED PC GAME! It gave me mobile.

Anna: Eidos would not make a mistake.

Gunther: Its the Square Enix man. He knows i like PC game.

Anna: Do you think the publishers have some kind of plot?

Gunther: YES! ZEY DO IT ON PURPOZ!

Instant classic! Now we just need to enact it with Gunther and Anna sock puppets.

The name of this game accurately describes its effect on the franchise. Maybe the franchise should just die until a competent developer and a sane publisher acquire it. I don't think anything good will come out of these guys. I already feel bad for the Thief fans.

Headstriker
7th Jun 2013, 12:52
It's not the devs fault, they are mere tools for Square Enix and have to follow their orders. They better announce something good on E3...

Shralla
7th Jun 2013, 19:16
Zero chance. If they had something real for this E3, they would have announced it already. They're going to be focusing on the Director's Cut and The Fall, two games that most people who played HR won't be able to play.

Spyhopping
7th Jun 2013, 19:24
Unless they work them for other platforms later, which is a very real possibility.

Doom972
8th Jun 2013, 21:27
It's not the devs fault, they are mere tools for Square Enix and have to follow their orders. They better announce something good on E3...

I used to accept that excuse in the past, but eventually I realized that the separation between developer and publisher when things like that happen is the reason why this sort of thing still happens so often.
As I see it, both are guilty: EM made the deal, they knew what they were getting into, and they went along with it anyway.

Kamikave
10th Jun 2013, 16:15
They better announce something good on E3...
Careful there. They might want to announce Deus Ex : The Rise on Blackberry if you ask for a game. :whistle:

-Neon-
11th Jun 2013, 04:54
Leaked E3 announcement list has DX:HR2 on it. We can only hope. [If it does end up being legit, I'm also hoping we don't see some indefinite release time. It'll seem like they only did it to counteract the backlash from The Fall]

CyberP
11th Jun 2013, 05:31
Source?

-Neon-
11th Jun 2013, 05:58
http://www.heavy.com/games/2013/06/e3-2013-top-ten-rumors-you-need-to-know/
Scroll to the bottom.
Forgot to emphasize that it's just rumored to be leaked instead of being someone's fantasy list.

CyberP
11th Jun 2013, 14:33
Hope it's true, they also have Fallout in there! Though I don't know why I anticipate it if it's being developed by Bethesda.

Reven
11th Jun 2013, 14:54
Final Fantasy Versus XIII changes into Final Fantasy XV

Very likely and I stand by my statement that it will be a PS4 game. As for the rest of the list ?....Bullshazbot. I don't see a Resi 7 coming until they get feedback from Resi Revelations and I don't see saints row 5 before 4 is even out.

Tverdyj
11th Jun 2013, 19:49
http://www.heavy.com/games/2013/06/e3-2013-top-ten-rumors-you-need-to-know/
Scroll to the bottom.
Forgot to emphasize that it's just rumored to be leaked instead of being someone's fantasy list.

This list spelled "Legacy of Kain" wrong.

Also, Ubi did not unveil BG&E2, sadly, and its creator is hard at work on Rayman: Legends.

As for Prey 2... we can still hope.

Kamikave
11th Jun 2013, 20:16
http://www.heavy.com/games/2013/06/e3-2013-top-ten-rumors-you-need-to-know/
Scroll to the bottom.
Forgot to emphasize that it's just rumored to be leaked instead of being someone's fantasy list.

Sounds bogus. Like I said, 2 years to develop a new Deus Ex can only mean another Invisible War (or Dragon Age 2). Even if it's true, I don't even want to see it.

Shralla
11th Jun 2013, 20:19
Sounds bogus. Like I said, 2 years to develop a new Deus Ex can only mean another Invisible War (or Dragon Age 2). Even if it's true, I don't even want to see it.

So if they announced it at e3 that means it would launch the day after? I don't get it. Human Revolution didn't launch for over a year after they first showed it at E3.

Kamikave
11th Jun 2013, 20:33
Look at the link, it's rumored to be released in 2015 >_> HR was released 4 years after being announced.

-Neon-
11th Jun 2013, 20:37
Watching the GameSpot interview thats live atm. Host said there was a never before heard announcement, and JF and (Neil?) just revealed that Directors Cut is coming out on the other current gen consoles.
Question is, do I have to buy it, or is it a patch?
Is there another secret they'd like to unveil today?

Kamikave
11th Jun 2013, 20:44
Question is, do I have to buy it, or is it a patch?
Is there another secret they'd like to unveil today?

Good question. I'll have the answer when I get paid next month :rolleyes:

Shralla
11th Jun 2013, 20:45
Look at the link, it's rumored to be released in 2015 >_> HR was released 4 years after being announced.

We already know that EM's development was slow as dirt, and of course they announced it early because everybody thought the franchise was dead. Do you think the Deus Ex team has just been jerking off this whole time? Like you really truly believe that they've been doing NOTHING for two years since Human Revolution came out? That's completely ridiculous. They're obviously working on a next-gen Deus Ex, and have been for over a year. 2015 would give it the same four years of development time that Human Revolution had, but I don't even see why it would need to be that long now that they have the team together and they've all worked on games together before. Remember that a lot of that time was spent organizing the team and managing workflow. All that is pretty much done now.

-Neon-
11th Jun 2013, 20:54
"Be patient . . . [The Fall] is not the only thing we have been working on." -JF on GameSpot interview, in response to the interviewer asking for hints on a PC/console sequel

Tverdyj
11th Jun 2013, 20:56
Watching the GameSpot interview thats live atm. Host said there was a never before heard announcement, and JF and (Neil?) just revealed that Directors Cut is coming out on the other current gen consoles.
Question is, do I have to buy it, or is it a patch?
Is there another secret they'd like to unveil today?

What about PC?

-Neon-
11th Jun 2013, 20:57
What about PC?

Yes, sorry.

HERESY
11th Jun 2013, 21:02
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut-coming-to-360-ps3-and-pc-6409843/

I told you guys to stop worrying about it, going crazy and behaving like savages and children.

Shralla
11th Jun 2013, 21:17
If it isn't free then it's still crap and I'm still mad at them.

HERESY
11th Jun 2013, 21:21
If it isn't free then it's still crap and I'm still mad at them.

It shouldn't be free. It isn't crap and not too many people care if you're mad at them.

You aren't entitled to free content. It took them many work hours, a lot of time away from their loved ones to make this content. Games, add-ons, fixes, etc just don't magically appear.

And this interview pretty much confirms what I've said in my many classic posts devoted to the topic and make your points null and void:

http://www.mcvpacific.com/news/read/interview-tom-crago-talks-about-the-aussie-developed-deus-ex-wii-u/0116790

Tverdyj
11th Jun 2013, 21:29
It shouldn't be free. It isn't crap and not too many people care if you're mad at them.

You aren't entitled to free content. It took them many work hours, a lot of time away from their loved ones to make this content. Games, add-ons, fixes, etc just don't magically appear.

And this interview pretty much confirms what I've said in my many classic posts devoted to the topic and make your points null and void:

http://www.mcvpacific.com/news/read/interview-tom-crago-talks-about-the-aussie-developed-deus-ex-wii-u/0116790

CDPRED made Witcher Enhanced Edition a free update.

ergo, as far as consumers are concerned, free updates are something that's possible. When devs choose not to make them free, they aren't the best offering in town.

I'm not passing judgement on EM for this, but there's reasons for such reactions.

ZakKa89
11th Jun 2013, 22:04
It should be 10 euro maximum. Will buy. Gamers expecting free stuff, not everybody is CDPROJECT RED. Also, CDPROJECT has financial security because of GOG.COM. Valve can bring out free dlc all the time because they are rich as well. Don't expect everybody giving you free DLC.

It's a little bit more than just a patch/update... Of course it won't be free.

ResonanceCascade
11th Jun 2013, 22:09
I don't expect it to be free. CD Projekt and Valve are awesome for providing massive updates after the fact, but I consider it more of a perk than a right.

I am more than happy to pay for the update. I'm just glad Eidos is bringing it out on all platforms now. :D

hyperion86
11th Jun 2013, 22:11
It's great news! Don't mind if its a paid update, the Directors Cut DLC will definitely improve DXHR!! :)

Parias
11th Jun 2013, 22:25
All is officially forgiven with this announcement. Your clever plot to make me continue paying for a game I've already played has succeeded - I will gladly fork over money for this.

Tverdyj
11th Jun 2013, 22:38
It should be 10 euro maximum. Will buy. Gamers expecting free stuff, not everybody is CDPROJECT RED. Also, CDPROJECT has financial security because of GOG.COM. Valve can bring out free dlc all the time because they are rich as well. Don't expect everybody giving you free DLC.

It's a little bit more than just a patch/update... Of course it won't be free.

And Sqeeenix has all of Japan's money, because of Final Fantasy. I really don't see how we can even compare the resources of Sqeeenix v CDP.

The argument can be made both ways. Yeah, it's their business decision, and I'm not gonna blame 'em for it, but I will point out that there are people who do things better. Which is what consumers should demand from everyone, really.

CyberP
11th Jun 2013, 22:44
I will not be getting it. Pissed all over a masterpiece. And it would take more than improved boss fights and new game+ (which is all kinds of wrong) to "fix" Human Revolution.

And it won't be DLC or a patch, it will be a full game with a standard retail price tag most likely.

I am an angry fan/customer, I am entitled to forever hate EM/SE.....but still hold some admiration for HR/EM, no matter how small.

-Fix hacking/XP/Playstyle conflicts.
-Restore the simulation design.
-Fix half of the augs
-release an SDK
-Fix the last few levels of the game.
-Announce Deus Ex HR 2/DX4
-Make a hardcore difficulty mode.
-Remove all the electronic locks for the worst of the poor districts (Detroit apartment Blocks? Hengsha various?) and add lockpicking to replace.
-Add a skill system.
-Add a locational health system.
-Add a melee system.
-Add the option to play first person only.
-Add lean.

Yes I am being totally unreasonable right now, douchebag levels. One of these demands would be nice though!
I know I said something about dignity but....EM, you hold something very dear to me, and you are beating it into the ground.

Shralla
11th Jun 2013, 23:02
You aren't entitled to free content. It took them many work hours, a lot of time away from their loved ones to make this content.

Which was paid for by the money that I gave them on launch day.

Jordasm
11th Jun 2013, 23:08
I already own the game, and The Missing Link, so I don't really wanna bother with this - I'm not paying even more just to get a few bug fixes and improved AI/bossfights. Hell, that's something that should be in a patch.

68_pie
11th Jun 2013, 23:17
At this point, it's not like I'm going to play DXHR again, so I couldn't really give a ****. But FWIW, they're fixing what they ****ed up in the first place so it should be free.

Brodoggins
11th Jun 2013, 23:40
I look through this thread, and I see lots and lots of hate. I, for one, am looking forward to the DC edition of Human Revolution, but I hope it's a patch so I don't have to spend any money :P I also hope EM seriously reconsiders the "only releasing <> on the <>" attitude, because The Fall actually looked somewhat interesting.

CyberP
11th Jun 2013, 23:55
Which was paid for by the money that I gave them on launch day.

Illogical. They (SE/EM) spent their money and time developing HR. Yes we consider it unsatisfactory but it's certainly worth a measly £40/$60. Anyway they provided their product, we bought it, transaction over, the game is playable and somewhat entertaining. Done deal. That money is no longer ours, it's theirs. They deserved it. But Deus Ex deserved better than what they had to offer.


At this point, it's not like I'm going to play DXHR again, so I couldn't really give a ****. But FWIW, they're fixing what they ****ed up in the first place so it should be free.

See above. If EM put their hands up and said, "yes, HR is lacking, a bit sloppy in areas, and we want to perfect it and make it true to Deus Ex", then I would happily buy it. Honoring the franchise and perfecting the product. But what they have actually done is added new game+ and immersion breaking social features, so no deal for me this time around. Either way they have the right to release this version for some cash, giving it out for free would be madness. However, as DLC would be the preferred method, likely worth the price, but it WILL be a retail release to get the gullible fans to buy the full product again with minor tweaks.

Hasn't every product ever made titled "director's cut" been a full release.......

Shralla
12th Jun 2013, 00:07
I don't see what's wrong with expecting what used to be standard practice to still hold true. What they're showing is lack of support for their game. If you ship a product that you deem to be broken, which they clearly do since they're "fixing" it, then you provide the customers who already bought it with a fix.

CyberP
12th Jun 2013, 00:12
I don't see what's wrong with expecting what used to be standard practice to still hold true. What they're showing is lack of support for their game. If you ship a product that you deem to be broken, which they clearly do since they're "fixing" it, then you provide the customers who already bought it with a fix.

Costs waaaay too much money. Not just changing some scripts.

I'm still waiting for some actual script fixes though, such as the laser sight bug. Should be a simple if/else statement for each weapon class.

FrankCSIS
12th Jun 2013, 00:16
I'm very curious now to see if this is released as a full game, as Cyber suggests. I always expected they would charge for a port upgrade, but I did not contemplate this possibility before. Yet it seems very likely, when you think about it.

One thing is certain, if it is a full re-release, I am not buying a game twice, let alone this one. I enjoyed it for what it is, sure, but the list of games I would buy again is extremely limited, no matter the list of improvements.

Time and price tag will tell if I upgrade my current version to the director's cut. I am glad they considered the port, however. It's just a shame they never took a single minute to talk about it. As usual, communication is abysmal with this company.

Jace_Auditore
12th Jun 2013, 01:02
And Sqeeenix has all of Japan's money, because of Final Fantasy.

They sure do... (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/26/square-enix-president-yoichi-wada-steps-down)

CyberP
12th Jun 2013, 01:04
They sure do... (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/03/26/square-enix-president-yoichi-wada-steps-down)

YEah, I was a bit confused by that claim too. Maybe if they still made good Final Fantasy games they would...or good games in general!

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 01:43
Which was paid for by the money that I gave them on launch day.

No it wasn't. Your money paid for the game that you purchased. Your money did not pay for revamped boss battles, better lighting and effects, revamped levels, improved AI, etc.


CDPRED made Witcher Enhanced Edition a free update.

And? McDonalds charges $1 for all sodas. Burger King charges $1.99 for a small soda. What exactly is your point? That because CDPRED provided a free update that EM should?


ergo, as far as consumers are concerned, free updates are something that's possible. When devs choose not to make them free, they aren't the best offering in town.

Then don't buy the game. It's as simple as that. However, the entitlement mentality that fans such as yourself have is part of the problem. If company A gives you free content, it's because they can afford to give you free content or they see the content as an incentive for you to do business with them again. If company B can't give you content, it doesn't mean they don't want your business, it means they may not be able to provide because there is a cost factor associated with it that they probably can't recoup when they need to recoup it.


I'm not passing judgement on EM for this, but there's reasons for such reactions.

So what exactly are you doing?

Count D
12th Jun 2013, 04:39
And? McDonalds charges $1 for all sodas. Burger King charges $1.99 for a small soda. What exactly is your point? That because CDPRED provided a free update that EM should?Yup. That's exactly how it goes. They should provide what's basically a glorified patch for free.
Then don't buy the game. It's as simple as that. However, the entitlement mentality that fans such as yourself have is part of the problem. If company A gives you free content, it's because they can afford to give you free content or they see the content as an incentive for you to do business with them again. If company B can't give you content, it doesn't mean they don't want your business, it means they may not be able to provide because there is a cost factor associated with it that they probably can't recoup when they need to recoup it.Yeah, right. But look at this: CDP is a small Polish publisher while Square Enix is a huge multi-national corporation. I think that possibly Square Enix might actually have more money to spare than CD Projekt. And Square Enix has a lot of sins to atone for as of late, namely DX: THe Fall and Nosgoth. If they do that, they'll make me into a more loyal customer. It they don't, I won't be as loyal. And they do need the loyalty and good will of their customers much, much more than those customers need the revamped boss battles.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 04:53
Yup. That's exactly how it goes. They should provide what's basically a glorified patch for free.

How is it a glorified patch when, with the exception of the tong mission and tml, everything was built from the ground up? In several of my classic posts I told people the boss fights, the improved AI, TML at the proper point was all because it was being developed from the ground up on the wii u. EM has confirmed this yet people still lie to themselves and think it's as easy as providing a patch. Also, how are they supposed to recoup the cost of PAYING the guys who made the DC? Remember, the job was OUTSOURCED to another company. They didn't just make the wii u pad stuff, they developed the boss battles, improved the AI and put TML where it needed to go--EM didn't do it. They told them what they needed/wanted done and let them do it. And again, how are they supposed to recoup the money they shelled out to make this "glorified patch" (which is erroneous to say the least) if they don't sell it?


Yeah, right.

It's not "yeah right" it's business 101.


But look at this: CDP is a small Polish publisher while Square Enix is a huge multi-national corporation.

So?


I think that possibly Square Enix might actually have more money to spare than CD Projekt.

Is CD Projekt a company that answers to shareholders? Is CD Projekt a company that, at any given time, has two or more projects on the table?


And Square Enix has a lot of sins to atone for as of late, namely DX: THe Fall and Nosgoth.

Sins? You're acting as if they pulled a Bethesda. They have committed no sins and the games aren't event released yet, lol.


If they do that, they'll make me into a more loyal customer. It they don't, I won't be as loyal. And they do need the loyalty and good will of their customers much, much more than those customers need the revamped boss battles

Huh?

CyberP
12th Jun 2013, 05:42
Is CD Projekt a company that answers to shareholders? Is CD Projekt a company that, at any given time, has two or more projects on the table?


CD Projeckt only had to worry about 1 platform at the time also, if I am not mistaken. Not Microsoft demanding $25.000 for them to certify and release the patch on xbox. Wtf is that all about, seriously.


Sins? You're acting as if they pulled a Bethesda. They have committed no sins and the games aren't event released yet, lol.

Sins indeed. I will never forgive them for butchering some of my most beloved franchises, masterpieces, art.

-Neon-
12th Jun 2013, 05:56
EfxdbXb8GZo#t=7s
thisthread.avi

Count D
12th Jun 2013, 06:13
How is it a glorified patch when, with the exception of the tong mission and tml, everything was built from the ground up? In several of my classic posts I told people the boss fights, the improved AI, TML at the proper point was all because it was being developed from the ground up on the wii u. EM has confirmed this yet people still lie to themselves and think it's as easy as providing a patch. Also, how are they supposed to recoup the cost of PAYING the guys who made the DC? Remember, the job was OUTSOURCED to another company. They didn't just make the wii u pad stuff, they developed the boss battles, improved the AI and put TML where it needed to go--EM didn't do it. They told them what they needed/wanted done and let them do it. And again, how are they supposed to recoup the money they shelled out to make this "glorified patch" (which is erroneous to say the least) if they don't sell it?Sorry, what? How was everything built from the ground up if it's the exact same game, just with a few tweaks? Building from the ground up is getting new engine, new sound, new graphic assets, new levels, new EVERYTHING. That's what building from the ground up is. Not changing a couple of levels and tweaking the AI. As for how they are supposed to recoup it... why should I care? They made mistakes, they corrected them. Why should I pay them for correcting those mistakes?


Quote: I think that possibly Square Enix might actually have more money to spare than CD Projekt.

Is CD Projekt a company that answers to shareholders? Is CD Projekt a company that, at any given time, has two or more projects on the table?Yeah and yeah. Namely, the Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077. And they have their own store, GOG.com.
Sins? You're acting as if they pulled a Bethesda. They have committed no sins and the games aren't event released yet, lol.Pulled a Bethesda? The hell does that mean? Released awesome games with no stupid needless tacked-on features in them, supported modding with all their hearts and listened to the community? Nope, they didn't. The sins are: making a DX game for platforms that DX fans don't game on and making a multiplayer game in a franchise that should have nothing to do with multiplayer (Nosgoth to Legacy of Kain). While I can ignore the former, the latter, the betrayal of the best videogame series ever, Legacy of Kain is downright insulting.

Tverdyj
12th Jun 2013, 06:29
Heresy's pissed off at Beth for releasing Skyrim on PS4 with backwards-flying dragons (and other assorted bugs).

EM told us that TML was using different tech, which is why it was unplayable in the main game--they used 2 diff. versions of the engine, with TML using a more advanced version.

I don't know how they fixed this for WiiU DC--they may have scrapped TML features like advanced rain mechanics, since WiiU is weak graphics-wise, and just re-did the whole thing in the engine of the original.
If so, I'm willing to sacrifice the realistic rain in TML for the sake of having it inside the main story.

As for new boss battles, they are basically separate levels. All EM needs to do is replace those levels with the ones offering multi-path solutions.

I mean, it's not like the 360 or PS3 version of DC will include an aug that works only with the WiiU controller, either. We're not looking for new, WiiU-specific augs, just give us proper DX boss battles and TML integration. This could be done in a free patch. Hell, Blizzard, for all that I despise them, dish out gigabytes worth of patches for their games over their life cycle. That's another example, this one from a big publisher, if you dislike CDPRED that much.

Count D
12th Jun 2013, 06:47
Heresy's pissed off at Beth for releasing Skyrim on PS4 with backwards-flying dragons (and other assorted bugs).Oh yeah. A bug that they eventually fixed and didn't ask money for. Yeah, EM won't pull a Bethesda if they want money for the patch.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 06:48
"As for how they are supposed to recoup it... why should I care?"

This statement is proof of your entitlement mentality and proof that further exchanges are futile. Anyway, ask the PS3 users how they feel about Skyrim.

@kud, EM didn't fix anything. The job was outsourced. How do any of you expect them to patch it when they used two different engines? It costs MORE money to actually replicate and manufacture tangibles so don't you people think that if it were as simple as a patch that they would have done it? Or at least patched TML from the start?

The kids here need to grow the **** up. I wanted TML, I didn't cry and complain like a brat. I said I wouldn't purchase and moved on. Thats the same thing these entitled princesses should do.

Count D
12th Jun 2013, 06:50
"As for how they are supposed to recoup it... why should I care?"

This statement is proof of your entitlement mentality and proof that further exchanges are futile. Anyway, ask the PS3 users how they feel about Skyrim.Yeah, my completely justified and utterly right mentality. Awesome, as of late, given that the memory issues were fixed.
The kids here need to grow the up. I wanted TML, I didn't cry and complain like a brat. I said I wouldn't purchase and moved on. Thats the same thing these entitled princesses should do.And how old are you, sonny boy?
The thing is, nobody noticed you. If you want to be noticed, you need to be loud. Boycotts don't do jack. Petitions, rants and rage get the job done. Ask Mass Effect 3 players.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 06:55
Oh yeah. A bug that they eventually fixed and didn't ask money for. Yeah, EM won't pull a Bethesda if they want money for the patch.

http://www.gamesradar.com/high-horse-broken-ps3-skyrim-was-inevitable-inexcusable-and-may-be-your-fault/

The company admitted to releasing the PS3 version even though they knew it was broken. Read the link, the game was UNPLAYABLE.

Count D
12th Jun 2013, 06:57
http://www.gamesradar.com/high-horse-broken-ps3-skyrim-was-inevitable-inexcusable-and-may-be-your-fault/

The company admitted to releasing the PS3 version even though they knew it was broken. Read the link, the game was UNPLAYABLE.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-skyrim-lag-fixed
Which they promptly fixed. But it required a lot of fiddling around with memory.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 07:07
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-skyrim-lag-fixed
Which they promptly fixed. But it required a lot of fiddling around with memory.

Look at the date of the article. You call fixing something 2 weeks shy a year after released "promptly?" LOL!


Yeah, my completely justified and utterly right mentality. Awesome, as of late, given that the memory issues were fixed.And how old are you, sonny boy?

As of late? The game was released in 2011. They're still patching. The problem is they KNOWINGLY released the game when they knew what the end result would be. As for my age, if I answer I'll be infracted.


The thing is, nobody noticed you. If you want to be noticed, you need to be loud. Boycotts don't do jack. Petitions, rants and rage get the job done. Ask Mass Effect 3 players.
One of the most idiotic claims ever posted here and, believe me, I've read some idiotic stuff here. Never typed it,

CyberP
12th Jun 2013, 07:09
One of the most idiotic claims ever posted here and, believe me, I've read some idiotic stuff here. Never typed it,

Oh, Heresy. You're always typing some nonsense :D

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 07:14
Oh, Heresy. You're always typing classics :D

Fixed again.

BTW, as of April 2013 Skyrim is still in need of patches, lol.

CyberP
12th Jun 2013, 07:31
Are you really pretending to be under the age of 16? Or is it 13 for these forums? Either way, you have revealed in previous posts your approximate age. Another contradictory post. This is your last CyberP-issued infraction before you get purged.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 08:52
Are you really pretending to be under the age of 16? Or is it 13 for these forums? Either way, you have revealed in previous posts your approximate age. Another contradictory post. This is your last CyberP-issued infraction before you get purged.

Not worthy.

rhalibus
12th Jun 2013, 09:44
On a more relevant note, Cam Robinson from Gamespot interviewed Jean-Francois Dugas (DX:HR Game Director) about The Fall, and managed to get him to comment about the mobile platform backlash--When will there be a new current gen or next gen Deus Ex game?

Jean-Francois's response? "Be patient".

Sooo, Deus Ex may have not been completely killed yet...:rolleyes:

besyuziki
12th Jun 2013, 11:07
Why contain it? Let it spill over into the phones and tablets, let the negative reviews pile up in App Store and Play Store. In the end, they'll beg us to save them.


http://www.gamespot.com/e3/deus-ex-human-revolution-directors-cut-coming-to-360-ps3-and-pc-6409843/

I told you guys to stop worrying about it, going crazy and behaving like savages and children.

Sweet.

At this point, expecting the Director's Cut content to be a free upgrade would be a tad unrealistic, but I hope it will at least be a reasonable priced DLC for us with Human Revolution, instead of being only available standalone for premium price. It would be absurd to expect people to buy the same thing twice for about a handful of improvements.

Tverdyj
12th Jun 2013, 14:16
"As for how they are supposed to recoup it... why should I care?"

This statement is proof of your entitlement mentality and proof that further exchanges are futile. Anyway, ask the PS3 users how they feel about Skyrim.

@kud, EM didn't fix anything. The job was outsourced. How do any of you expect them to patch it when they used two different engines? It costs MORE money to actually replicate and manufacture tangibles so don't you people think that if it were as simple as a patch that they would have done it? Or at least patched TML from the start?

The kids here need to grow the **** up. I wanted TML, I didn't cry and complain like a brat. I said I wouldn't purchase and moved on. Thats the same thing these entitled princesses should do.

We've been over this: as consumers, it is not our job to worry about how the industry will recoup its precious money. Consumer's job is to be short-sighted and always want the best for the consumer--regardless of the consequences to the devs (or publishers, in this case, since EM isn't an independent outfit, and all of their decisions are curated by Squeeenix).

if they outsourced it to another team--fine, now they have that code. And I already said that I don't care about the graphical pretties that made TML use a diff engine--put those levels up in original's engine and integrate them with the game, update the 4 boss battle level maps and put them in instead of the ones we have now--and yes, replacing /adding maps CAN be a patch, not everyone is CoD and charges for each map pack.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 17:33
We've been over this: as consumers, it is not our job to worry about how the industry will recoup its precious money.

We've been over this and you were shown to lack a proper understanding of business. Why do we have kickstarters and angels? It is your job, as a consumer, to be aware of your purchasing power and what it gives you. It is your job, as a consumer, to know what is within the realm of consumer rights and what isn't. It is your job, as a consumer, to know that if you DON'T support the company that you claim to love and/or endorse, that they won't be able to provide you with future products.

Your greedy mentality is part of the reasons why companies go belly up. Companies who attempt to cater to people like you, cyberP, countD, Shralla, 58 pie and some of the other kids here go belly up and never see the light of day. Want proof? Ion Storm. Want more? THQ.


Consumer's job is to be short-sighted and always want the best for the consumer--regardless of the consequences to the devs (or publishers, in this case, since EM isn't an independent outfit, and all of their decisions are curated by Squeeenix).

What is best for the consumer is to get quality product when needed, as needed and for a price that allows them to make the purchase. Listen man, in my classic posts I gave you key words and links to understanding basic business and commerce so take the time to read them. You guys (everyone I mentioned and some of the johnny come latelies) aren't informed consumers, aren't as loyal to the DX brand as you've portrayed yourself and are the reasons why companies go belly up.

If you make unreasonable demands and have unreasonable expectations, and a company foolishly obliges but fails to recoup from such idiocy, then if they recover, you'll see longer wait periods and will undoubtedly see an increase in the next offering. This is business 101, son.


if they outsourced it to another team--fine, now they have that code.

They outsourced it to another team, which I was saying when they first announced it, yet all of you kept questioning it even though EM openly stated they outsourced. So now that they have the code everything is like Lucky Charms? It's just magically delicious and they're just supposed to code the stuff for THREE different platforms now and offer it for FREE?


And I already said that I don't care about the graphical pretties that made TML use a diff engine--put those levels up in original's engine and integrate them with the game

SMH. It's not as simple as "put those levels up in the original engine." For all you know, they may not even be able to import/open any of the new files in the original engine. Not all programs are backwards compatible like that.


update the 4 boss battle level maps and put them in instead of the ones we have now--and yes, replacing /adding maps CAN be a patch, not everyone is CoD and charges for each map pack.

See above.


Why contain it? Let it spill over into the phones and tablets, let the negative reviews pile up in App Store and Play Store. In the end, they'll beg us to save them.



Sweet.

At this point, expecting the Director's Cut content to be a free upgrade would be a tad unrealistic, but I hope it will at least be a reasonable priced DLC for us with Human Revolution, instead of being only available standalone for premium price. It would be absurd to expect people to buy the same thing twice for about a handful of improvements.

You're reasonable. Thanks for looking at this in a realistic fashion.

Tverdyj
12th Jun 2013, 18:57
We have Kickcstarters, because Devs go to the consumers with ideas for projects. if consumers like it, they pledge, in hopes of getting the product. Kickstarter isn't a contract. It's patronage--I gave HareBrained Schemes money, because I like Shadowrun, and want to see isometric RPGs with X-com style combat set in the Shadowrun world, instead of a multiplayer shooter (which is what M$oft did with the IP). At no point in this transaction are there any guarantees what my money will go to--that's the risk. I take that risk, because I like the idea the devs have.

I am an informed consumer. I am also driven (subjectivelly, naturally, by nostalgia)-- i want the DX experience. this is what I, as a consumer want. There is no axiom that consumers' desires need to be rational--the BS tripe about "capitalism is when everyone makes informed decisions all the time, to their own best interest" is just that--BS. 95% of all decisions people make are made without taking the time to think about them. There is no 100% informed consumers, it's a hypothetical that doesn't apply to real life. Companies that want consumer money have to deal with irrational purchasers. In this case, they have the DX fanbase--which is irrational in its desire for a DX experience. I can't speak for all of the people you have singled out, but I am not nearly as attached to the DX setting (its "Brand"), as I am to DX-type gameplay--a game that offers me real choices in how I play. I could not care less what they call it, as long as it plays like DX. Hell, I didn't like Adam Jenses as a character--I chose the "blow up everyhting" ending and hope it's canon and we get a new character in the next game.

but I veered off topic. The point is, consumers do not have to be "rational". It's a fallacy to expect them to be "rational". This is not about "entitlement". This is about improving consumer standards. Stop thinking that liking the brand or the developer automatically means "putting their interests above our own". Like i said, I like DX, I like EM, but I don't like them so much as to settle for lower standard of quality.

And THQ is a poor example. THQ blew its money on uDraw--a peripheral gimmick that was a huge disaster it never recevered from. A shame, because i'd have loved more Darksiders games. THQ were also the company with "8 months of paid DLC" plans for Saints Row 3, so I wouldn't say they are a shining example of handing out freebies to the company's detriment.

xaduha2
12th Jun 2013, 19:17
At this point, expecting the Director's Cut content to be a free upgrade would be a tad unrealistic, but I hope it will at least be a reasonable priced DLC for us with Human Revolution, instead of being only available standalone for premium price. It would be absurd to expect people to buy the same thing twice for about a handful of improvements.

There are some problems with DLC route also.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/201280/
TML is standalone, doesn't require HR to be purchased and played, right? But DC edition contains TML. So DC price ≥ TML price.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 19:56
We have Kickcstarters, because Devs go to the consumers with ideas for projects. if consumers like it, they pledge, in hopes of getting the product. Kickstarter isn't a contract. It's patronage--I gave HareBrained Schemes money, because I like Shadowrun, and want to see isometric RPGs with X-com style combat set in the Shadowrun world, instead of a multiplayer shooter (which is what M$oft did with the IP). At no point in this transaction are there any guarantees what my money will go to--that's the risk. I take that risk, because I like the idea the devs have.

We also have kickstarters because companies listened to customers that had no idea what they were talking about or requesting, died, and now need help. We also have them because companies went belly up as a result of not being able to recoup. Your mentality is counter productive to a businesses longevity. If a consumer is aware, and understands where his or her money is going to, they won't say the things you said because they know if they don't pay, the company can't stay in business and provide them with the goods they want. It's business 101.


I am an informed consumer.

I doubt this. You're a customer with an entitlement mentality and don't care if the company suffers trying to fulfill your requests. You already admitted this.


I am also driven (subjectivelly, naturally, by nostalgia)-- i want the DX experience. this is what I, as a consumer want. There is no axiom that consumers' desires need to be rational--the BS tripe about "capitalism is when everyone makes informed decisions all the time, to their own best interest" is just that--BS. 95% of all decisions people make are made without taking the time to think about them.

Desires need to fit within the company culture and what the company is actually capable of providing to the consumer. Everything needs to be aligned and the numbers need to match up or else they can't create the request. Why don't you comprehend this?


There is no 100% informed consumers, it's a hypothetical that doesn't apply to real life.

This is incorrect on so many levels, too many to go into.


Companies that want consumer money have to deal with irrational purchasers.

They don't have to cater to them. In fact, they would do best to not even focus on them and continue on with the brand loyalist as they're the ones keeping the company alive.


In this case, they have the DX fanbase--which is irrational in its desire for a DX experience. I can't speak for all of the people you have singled out, but I am not nearly as attached to the DX setting (its "Brand"), as I am to DX-type gameplay--a game that offers me real choices in how I play.

No game offers you "real choices" in how you play. That's a cop out and the word "choice" has now become a catch phrase and marketing tool used to uphold the illusion that these games offer some sort of free will, they don't.


but I veered off topic. The point is, consumers do not have to be "rational". It's a fallacy to expect them to be "rational".

The point is consumers do need to be rational. PAY YOUR MONEY. There is a COST associated with the production/manufacturing of goods. Money doesn't grow on trees and not all companies can give away free goods.


This is not about "entitlement". This is about improving consumer standards. Stop thinking that liking the brand or the developer automatically means "putting their interests above our own". Like i said, I like DX, I like EM, but I don't like them so much as to settle for lower standard of quality.

Lower standard of quality? This is subjective. And contrary to what you've stated, this is about entitlement. No one here is entitled to free goods. We paid for DXHR, we got that. If they want to create additions, fixes and there is a cost factor associated with it, and it gets passed on to us, so be it. You either pay or you don't. Vote with your wallet.

Do you people think those who purchased a 2013 Camero are entitled to the upgrades found in the 2014 model? Do you think those who have the last gen iPhone are entitled to the latest and greatest iPhone? How about clothing? Those who purchased last years nikes are entitled to this years nikes?


And THQ is a poor example. THQ blew its money on uDraw--a peripheral gimmick that was a huge disaster it never recevered from. A shame, because i'd have loved more Darksiders games. THQ were also the company with "8 months of paid DLC" plans for Saints Row 3, so I wouldn't say they are a shining example of handing out freebies to the company's detriment.

THQ is a great example. Yes, uDraw was crap (actually before it's time but would have been perfect for todays market if it could be used as a controller), however, they listened to the fans when it came to the games and the games didn't do as well as they liked. A prime example is Darksiders 2. I was on the forums, I kept telling the fans to stop begging for MP, stop asking for all these wacky changes, but they kept on and on. They released the game, it was everything the fans asked for (aside from mp) and it failed. I went back to the board and said "I told you so." Now THQ is dead. SE should be cautious when listening to the likes of you all.

Tverdyj
12th Jun 2013, 20:22
Didn't know that abot Darksiders. Otoh, Ion Storm failed because of IW. which did a lot of things fans told them NOT to do.

We also seem to be misunderstanding each other. You talk of DC as if it's a brand new game (i'm just following up on all your car, phone/etc analogies). I don't see it as a brand new game. Similar to the case of The Witcher, i see it as extra content for the game I already bought. They don't have to offer it to me for free. But if developers consider something (in this case, boss battles) a mistake, and re-work it, then, yes, i feel it could be made a free patch. The Witcher 2 was released, and people complained about the combat difficulty. CDPRED released several patches, including one that added a combat tutorial, for free. In the Enhanced edition, they added extra content to the game's last act, because they felt it was too short--also for free.

I see this case as being similar, wrt to boss battles being an omission of EM (they were outsourced, to people who've only ever made FPSs--which qualifies as a "mistake" in my books). DC fixes this mistake. They can charge me for it. Or they can do what CDPRED did and give it out for free (no one TOLD CDPRED they have to dot hat btw. It was their choice that ended them a LOT of goodwill, same as their anti-DRM stance). Obviously, the choice is EM's (or, rather, that of Squeeenix). But I do know what would be better for me as a consumer.

Shralla
12th Jun 2013, 20:26
A prime example is Darksiders 2. I was on the forums, I kept telling the fans to stop begging for MP, stop asking for all these wacky changes, but they kept on and on. They released the game, it was everything the fans asked for (aside from mp) and it failed. I went back to the board and said "I told you so." Now THQ is dead. SE should be cautious when listening to the likes of you all.

You're seriously delusional if you think the performance of Darksiders 2 had ANYTHING to do with the dissolution of THQ.

HERESY
12th Jun 2013, 20:35
Didn't know that abot Darksiders. Otoh, Ion Storm failed because of IW. which did a lot of things fans told them NOT to do.

It's true about Darksiders 2. They were banking on that game to keep them afloat but it didn't.


We also seem to be misunderstanding each other. You talk of DC as if it's a brand new game (i'm just following up on all your car, phone/etc analogies). I don't see it as a brand new game.

What part of there being a cost associated with the production of goods do you not understand?


Similar to the case of The Witcher, i see it as extra content for the game I already bought. They don't have to offer it to me for free. But if developers consider something (in this case, boss battles) a mistake, and re-work it, then, yes, i feel it could be made a free patch.

See above. Just because company A can eat the costs of free goods doesn't mean company B can do the same thing. Why do you not comprehend this?


The Witcher 2 was released, and people complained about the combat difficulty. CDPRED released several patches, including one that added a combat tutorial, for free. In the Enhanced edition, they added extra content to the game's last act, because they felt it was too short--also for free.

See above.


I see this case as being similar, wrt to boss battles being an omission of EM (they were outsourced, to people who've only ever made FPSs--which qualifies as a "mistake" in my books). DC fixes this mistake. They can charge me for it. Or they can do what CDPRED did and give it out for free (no one TOLD CDPRED they have to dot hat btw.

Stop. Who did the corrections for CDPRED? Were the corrections done internally or did they outsource the job to another company?


It was their choice that ended them a LOT of goodwill, same as their anti-DRM stance). Obviously, the choice is EM's (or, rather, that of Squeeenix). But I do know what would be better for me as a consumer.

I've already addressed this entitlement mentality.


You're seriously delusional if you think the performance of Darksiders 2 had ANYTHING to do with the dissolution of THQ.

And you're delusional period yet you don't see me constantly pointing this out.

Anyway, it was the nail in the coffin.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/06/thq-shares-drop-by-almost-50-amid-bankruptcy-fears/
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/06/us-thq-shares-idUSBRE8A50YT20121106

Doom972
12th Jun 2013, 20:43
We've been over this: as consumers, it is not our job to worry about how the industry will recoup its precious money. Consumer's job is to be short-sighted and always want the best for the consumer--regardless of the consequences to the devs (or publishers, in this case, since EM isn't an independent outfit, and all of their decisions are curated by Squeeenix).

if they outsourced it to another team--fine, now they have that code. And I already said that I don't care about the graphical pretties that made TML use a diff engine--put those levels up in original's engine and integrate them with the game, update the 4 boss battle level maps and put them in instead of the ones we have now--and yes, replacing /adding maps CAN be a patch, not everyone is CoD and charges for each map pack.

It's nice to see others who think like this. Many gamers usually think about the poor little developer enslaved by the big bad publisher who will have to close if you don't buy his overpriced game/DLC, and completely ignore their own consumer right to vote with their wallet.

Count D
13th Jun 2013, 04:45
Stop. Who did the corrections for CDPRED? Were the corrections done internally or did they outsource the job to another company?Ahem. Even if they did them internally, it still costs money. Shocking, isn't it? You still gotta pay the people for doing that and while they are doing that, they won't be able to do stuff for new games, which means they'll have to do that later, which means, it costs extra money to develop updates and patches. Add to that the money they'll have to pay for power and the internet during all that time.
See above. Just because company A can eat the costs of free goods doesn't mean company B can do the same thing. Why do you not comprehend this?Company B in question is much, much bigger and richer than company A. They most certainly CAN.
I've already addressed this entitlement mentality.Yeah, you already stated that you'd better be corporate sheep than a self-aware customer.
One of the most idiotic claims ever posted here and, believe me, I've read some idiotic stuff here. Never typed it,Oh really? I think you mixed up "typed" and "read". Yep, you most certainly did.
And who noticed you? How many devs noticed your "mature" boycott?
As of late? The game was released in 2011. They're still patching. The problem is they KNOWINGLY released the game when they knew what the end result would be. As for my age, if I answer I'll be infracted.Actually they stopped patching recently. And patches were not all about the bugs, but also about adding new features, such as mounted combat, killcams for magic and bows and Legendary difficulty.

HERESY
13th Jun 2013, 08:01
I'll address three things now and, depending on how I feel, may address the rest tomorrow.

1. I meant exactly what I typed.

2. The latest Skyrim patch was released in April but we all know how wacky your sense of time is so whatever. No one said the patch was all about bugs so why say it?

3. The company knowingly released a broken game and thats different than a company releasing a game with questionable design choices.

Count D
13th Jun 2013, 10:08
2. The latest Skyrim patch was released in April but we all know how wacky your sense of time is so whatever. No one said the patch was all about bugs so why say it?The Legendary Edition was released. Bethsoft always releases editions like this when they consider they are done with the game.
3. The company knowingly released a broken game and thats different than a company releasing a game with questionable design choices.Yeah. Broken games are more easily fixed.

HERESY
13th Jun 2013, 16:56
The Legendary Edition was released. Bethsoft always releases editions like this when they consider they are done with the game.Yeah. Broken games are more easily fixed.

Released over a year and a half later. LOL@when they consider they are done with the game! And Beth CHARGES you for that legendary edition right?

Broken games are more easily fixed? Tell that to PS3 users who, as of April of 2013, are still downloading patches to fix the game (along with adding other features.) The fact that the game was released in a broken state is the problem.