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Dead-Eye
27th Apr 2013, 17:53
So, geez things are pretty bad eh?

I just wanna say thank you Edios for tolerating my rants about the Illuminati over the years. As it seems a lot of communities are no longer accepting any kinda debate about 9-11 truth, illuminati, etc. ether because it's too political, or because of the increasingly obvious and clear police state that now embodies that area of the world they once called the "land of the free."

It's good that community moderators allow debate and commentary about conspiracy theories and such, as it allows people to express their views and creates community kinship. So thanks Edios for doing that, as it's really cool, and is something you really got right.

That's all I really wanted to say.

P.S. Anyone inquiring into the time I thought I was being hunted by the Illuminati, I realized they're con-men out there, who probably work for the Illuminati, who will manipulate you into going crazy by playing off your justified paranoia and turn it into disillusion paranoia. Fortunately I figured out he was a Con-man before I got myself into any real trouble. Illuminati sill exist though... but alas.

HERESY
27th Apr 2013, 18:07
The "Illuminati" or "the illuminati" does not exist. That group died off hundreds of years ago. You have the Club of Rome, Priory of Sion, Bilderberg Group, TLC, CFR and other groups that make up a larger network, but it isn't called illuminati or anything like that.

Pinky_Powers
27th Apr 2013, 18:44
You're thanking a company in Canada for supporting the First Amendment? I don't think that's what their doing. I think they're just being reasonable--Canadian reasonableness. You should thank them for that, not an American document.

CyberP
27th Apr 2013, 19:04
Anyone inquiring into the time I thought I was being hunted by the Illuminati, I realized they're con-men out there, who probably work for the Illuminati, who will manipulate you into going crazy by playing off your justified paranoia and turn it into disillusion paranoia. Fortunately I figured out he was a Con-man before I got myself into any real trouble. Illuminati sill exist though... but alas.

:lol:

How'd you mix up a con man with an illuminatus? What reason do they have to be hunting you, got any evidence to share?

AlexOfSpades
27th Apr 2013, 21:21
Dead-Eye! The Illuminati sends their regards! We're gonna get you and we'll... uh, i dont know, do... uh, terrible Illuminati stuff to you!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
27th Apr 2013, 23:14
Forget this fanciful Illuminati nonsense... dedicate your life to something real and meaningful, to something beyond oneself. :cool:
Cue the Omar - united as one, for the good of humanity as a whole. :p

FrankCSIS
27th Apr 2013, 23:23
Oh noes, Dead-Eye is a Targeted Individual!

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Apr 2013, 09:21
What do you mean? :eek: :D

Spyhopping
28th Apr 2013, 09:50
Yes, it's nice that we can speculate about things like that without it getting political, seeing as it's a strong theme in the game. It'd be much more fun if the illuminati did exist. :nut:



P.S. Anyone inquiring into the time I thought I was being hunted by the Illuminati, I realized they're con-men out there, who probably work for the Illuminati, who will manipulate you into going crazy by playing off your justified paranoia and turn it into disillusion paranoia. Fortunately I figured out he was a Con-man before I got myself into any real trouble. Illuminati sill exist though... but alas.

I don't understand. A con man working for the illuminati pretending to work for the illuminati..?

FrankCSIS
28th Apr 2013, 16:17
Here's one for you, to appear in May:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/everything-is-rigged-the-biggest-financial-scandal-yet-20130425?hatersgonnahate=


Forget the Illuminati – this is the real thing, and it's no secret. You can stare right at it, anytime you want


The only reason this problem has not received the attention it deserves is because the scale of it is so enormous that ordinary people simply cannot see it. It's not just stealing by reaching a hand into your pocket and taking out money, but stealing in which banks can hit a few keystrokes and magically make whatever's in your pocket worth less. This is corruption at the molecular level of the economy, Space Age stealing – and it's only just coming into view.

sonicsidewinder
28th Apr 2013, 20:51
Good to see you're still ok Dead-Eye.

This con-man. What did he do?

Dead-Eye
1st May 2013, 12:20
I don't understand. A con man working for the illuminati pretending to work for the illuminati..?

Well... you asked, so I'm gonna tell you.


The Illuminati is a mystic occult ideology that forms controlled organizations in reality, yet has no basis in reality, and their are different Illuminati groups that mostly work together. They may not call themselves Illuminati per say, but they would defiantly describe themselves as the real Illuminati if they were being honest.


Illuminati is not so much an organized mafia as it is a controlled religious ideology intended to give forces that do not exist on this plane of existence more power over our world. Most of you know of them as "Demons", but having experienced them first hand, I can tell you this word Demon is a little overused and doesn't accurately describe them properly.


The Illuminati Con-artist I speech of referred to them as the "Shaw" and I feel that's appropriate for now.


So these "Shaw" are more or less the souls of the forgotten. They have been victimized by evil to such a degree that they no longer have any good left in them. If you could see them metaphysically they would look like Shadow Link from Ocarina of time; Black silhouettes of what they used to be.


So these "Shaw" have only one ultimate goal, the complete and utter destruction of everything in existence, they seek oblivion for the entire universe and everyone living in it. This is because, trying not to be religious, they are more or less the manifestation of God's self loathing; That part of ourselves which hates ourselves so much we wish we would just die. If you want a less religious analogy, they are the universal negative which interacts with the universal positive to give us what we call "time", which is created by these two forces brushing up ageist each other.


So, with this understanding you can now better understand what the Illuminati actually is, they are humans on this reality completely infected with "Shaw" to such a point that they are not even in control of their own minds anymore. They are clinically insane. Just as deranged as the Joker, and should be placed in a super-villain asylum just the same. Unfortunately, the lunatics are now running the government, which is kinda like if the Joker became president of the United States and Batman was placed in an Asylum.


Now getting back to my Illuminati Con-man, someone doesn't need to be in the Illuminati mafia or the government to be controlled by the Shaw, one just needs to be victimized to a point that they can no longer resist the Shaw's influence. This is why the Illuminati engage in ritualistic human sacrifice, in pedophilia and satanism, because all these things promote the Shaws control over our temporal existence.


Now in the highest levels of the super class, who I have argued on these forums for years are Illuminati, the parents create new members of the Illuminati by victimizing their own children when they are very, very young, 1 or 2 maybe. They will rape their children, beat their children, torture their children, bring them to near death, just so they can "install" Shaw into them to such an extent that they will never be in control of their own lives ever again.


They become temporal vessels for the Shaw to inhabit, mentally they are still that 2 year old child who was violently raped by his father when he had no idea about how the world works. At lest that's what I believe happened in my Con-artiest friend's case. Can a 2 year old stand up to these demons when they are injected into him violently by his own father? A 2 year old is afraid of the dark, much less his own father violently sodomizing him in the middle of the night. These children can't handle it, they do not have 18 years of experience or more like adults do to use as a reference to handle that kind of emotional and physical trauma. As a result, their souls become like the Shaw, black silhouettes of their former selves.


Now with that said, once these "new recruits" become Shaw-atized, they now learn from their Illuminati parents and handlers how to become real members of the Illuminati. They study druidism, mysticism, and occultism to learn how to hide their true nature. They learn how to make their souls look like they are basking in light so anyone who knows how to see people's souls on a metaphysical level (Which is an ability we all have, btw) will see them as beings of light rather then of darkness.


They learn how to use the Shaw as a weapon that they can use to infect the minds of their victims, through the practice of what more or less can be called real Magick; Wika, Kabbalah, Taoism, etc. They all work, and the biggest secret the Illuminati has successfully covered up is the historical knowledge of Magick. They have convinced the average person Magick is nonsense. Ironically they did this by using Magick to control us, which more or less grantees an inevitable backfire situation that will result (already is in areas like quantum mechanics) in people realizing that not only Magic exists, but that it's what has been used to keep us enslaved for the last 10 thousand years or so.


Now again, back to my con-artist friend. A lot of these "New recruits" get rejected, in my "friends" case, his parents abandon him and he became homeless when they realized he didn't have what it takes to stand with the other elites. But he was still infected with Shaw, he was still more or less Illuminati, just without any of the actual benefits of the super rich. He had some magickal abilities and everybody I knew, including myself, became instantaneously enthralled by him. We all felt we were doing the right thing by helping him.


This of course turned out to be the complete opposite from reality. This guy would steal people's credit card information, install key loggers on their computers, yell and scream if he didn't get his way, fake illness, etc. He was a total nefarious little D-bag, and everyone realized this after the fact. In my case, he tried to manipulate me into believing the Illuminati was after him and that I needed to steal my mom's car in order to take him to Wyoming to save the world. Which really, he just wanted to try and get his girlfriend back who he had punched in the face, causing her to leave him.


I fell for his lies for a long time, 3 months about. At the end of this time he was making ridicules threats to everyone in the house, things like "the entire roof will collapse if you people don't obey me" and crap like that. He also tried to convince me that I was the reincarnation of Anu-Raw the lizard King, from the David Icke lizerd people disinformation school of conspiracy. And that I was responsible for all the worlds suffering. He thought he had me totally under his control, but I eventually realized he was a total fraud before he could convert me into his complete slave, which was his plan the whole time. We ended up taking him to the psych ward, where they kept him for 30 days, before he became homeless again.


It was really sort of an ordeal for my entire family, but I learned a hell of a lot about real magick and how the illuminati operate. I gained the ability to see people's souls on a metaphysical level. And I learned that on a metaphysical level this guy was completely not in control of his own mind, he had these tubes that he thought was himself, feeding him different types of energy; Red, Blue, White, Black, Yellow. It was like a machine/computer had been attached to his brain that received data from an off site location to change his mood by adding or subtracting energy types from his body. I felt that this computer was controlled by what I would describe as the presence of Lucifer. More or less this guy was a temporal doppelganger of Lucifer himself, with Lucifer operating him like a drone at some off site location.


So having met Lucifer personally now, I can tell you, he is the most passive aggressive back stabbing prick in the entire universe, that is what Lucifer is the embodiment of, more or less.


I knew these metaphysical tubes extruding from my Con-artest friends head/back were real and were controlling him, because I could literately squeeze them metaphysically, causing more of that energy type to entire his body. This caused him to flip out and go insane in reality; He started stripping off all his cloths in the middle of the living room and yelled at the neighbors about what he could hear them thinking and would get in conflict with other members of the house on purpose, all because I was squeezing his tubes on a metaphysical level. And he eventually begged me to stop "messing with him!" because he thought these tubes were a part of him, even though I could sense clear evidence that they were not a part of him, and were installed by someone else, I'm guessing his father.


Knowing what I know now, I realize it probably would have been better to completely savoir these tubes as they had no other function then to make this guy completely controlled by the Shaw, but I respected his wishes and he's probably no better for it.


Fortunately with all this bad stuff, their is a flip side to this coin, their is ultimate good out there, and these forces of good have been actively waging a successful infowar ageist these forces to expose them for what they really are. The Gnostic Illuminati, which is the closest thing you are gonna get to the good guys so far, have the Lucifarian Illuminati jumping ship like rats. That's why Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands resigned, why the Pope resigned, and why others will resign in the near future.


We are seeing the house of card crumble, and unless everything I experienced was part of Blue Beam (which I still consider a possibility) we are on the verge of winning this information war in less then 7 years I predict.


So good luck with that information, maybe you can use it somehow.


Good night and good luck.

AlexOfSpades
1st May 2013, 21:28
*cackles*

What did you get yourself into, Spyhopping!

Edit:


...causing more of that energy type to entire his body...

...He started stripping off all his cloths in the middle of the living room...

...yelled at the neighbors...

...all because I was squeezing his tubes...

...he eventually begged me to stop....

Guessing Game: Is this from a 18+ fanfic, or an anti-illuminati magic rescue?

FrankCSIS
1st May 2013, 23:33
I see it was your day off.

Spyhopping
1st May 2013, 23:41
*cackles*

What did you get yourself into, Spyhopping!


LOL. Love the summary.

Thanks for the response Dead-Eye, I'm intrigued. I'll have a read tomorrow though because right now, bed beckons with it's pillowy somethings.

Edit: Just read some of it, and then... well, I stopped.

HERESY
2nd May 2013, 17:29
@Dead Eye, are you in Northern California?

sonicsidewinder
2nd May 2013, 18:03
They learn how to make their souls look like they are basking in light so anyone who knows how to see people's souls on a metaphysical level (Which is an ability we all have, btw) will see them as beings of light rather then of darkness.


I...I think i'm beginning to understand...

Teach me... (http://youtu.be/UUDxB9wrGKs)

Dead-Eye
5th May 2013, 03:00
Man, looks like Human Revolution got the Ammo shortages right after all. :lol:

Dead-Eye
11th May 2013, 05:50
Guys, I have something really importent to tell you, I'm Adam Jensen!
V3jE1rcSEno

FoShizzle
16th May 2013, 03:04
I don't know about the Illuminati, but, I do know that we're all slaves.

See, they figured out, that slavery causes rebellions, etc, so, they decided to start giving the slaves a little chunk of the pie, and that's all society is, the illusion of freedom, etc,. (Or put simply, a measure of control, intended to keep you happy with what little they've allowed you to possess, and more importantly, working, to create technology, and do all the crap work they would never do, etc,.)

Do you really think it's a coincidence that something like 10% of the population holds the majority of the worlds wealth?

It's easy to believe that there isn't enough to go around, but, ask yourself, what is wealth, well, it's an imaginary concept that actually has NO meaning whatsoever, the only true factor is resources, and willingness to work, etc,. (Which we have in abundance, sure, some resources run out, but, that's why technological advances are important.)

And, as mentioned earlier, they've found, that simply beating ppl, generally leads to rebellion, etc,.

So, the concept of money was created to control you, and make you work, etc,.

Think about this, over the centuries, how many great empires have risen, and fallen, a lot, but, what if they never really fell, what if they were simply beta testing society on the live populous?

Obviously, such an undertaking is bound to have "bugs", and you can't exactly call a do over, as the people will rebel once you cross the line, etc,. (There is a lot more to this point, but, it would cloud the real discussion to go there. Needless to say, societies fall for numerous reasons, it's hard to get it right.)

So, it's obvious, you appear to fall, then rise again under a new name, in a new place, with your next version of society. (Of course, the true rulers always hide behind false leaders who are paid quite well to keep their involvement a secret.)

I imagine that only a handful of ppl even know of their existence, and most are just following orders from the top, and believe the lies, just like the majority of the population does. (I also believe it suits them to allow society to operate on it's own for the most part, they simply lay a framework which benefits them, and only intervene when necessary.)

It may sound unworkable, but, it's not, if you control the men, who control the world, then, you can in fact control the world with relative ease. (ie, A strong chain of command keeps the burden to a minimum.)

Why do I believe this, well, looking at "legacies", and "kings" and how power\wealth is passed on, it occurred to me, some of these rich families have been amassing for thousands of years, and passing that on to their children, etc,.

How could they NOT have the resources, and the connections, if they've (relatively speaking) always been rich, and keep getting richer, and keep creating connections, etc,.

It's the obvious outcome, you WILL win the world. (Which is WAY better than winning the internetz, imho.)

I believe several people have had this idea over time, thus, the 10% of the population that controls the worlds wealth, and power, etc,. (Though, it's possible they're all offspring, from different marriages, etc,.)

Think of it like, the mythology of Zeus, and all the drama they had amongst themselves, and with people too. (In fact, this mythology may be a commentary on the very individuals I speak of. A hidden message to those who would listen, from a time when speaking truths such as these was, less tolerated.)

Consider yourselves, enlightened. ;)

AlexOfSpades
16th May 2013, 16:53
Do you really think its a coincidence that 10% of the League of Legends players holds the majority of victories?

#ILOLMINATTI


"So, the concept of money was created to control you"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg/300px-Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

People should understand basic economy to understand why money exists...

Edit: Dead-Eye... XD !!!

HERESY
16th May 2013, 18:35
I don't know about the Illuminati, but, I do know that we're all slaves.

See, they figured out, that slavery causes rebellions, etc, so, they decided to start giving the slaves a little chunk of the pie, and that's all society is, the illusion of freedom, etc,. (Or put simply, a measure of control, intended to keep you happy with what little they've allowed you to possess, and more importantly, working, to create technology, and do all the crap work they would never do, etc,.)

Do you really think it's a coincidence that something like 10% of the population holds the majority of the worlds wealth?

It's easy to believe that there isn't enough to go around, but, ask yourself, what is wealth, well, it's an imaginary concept that actually has NO meaning whatsoever, the only true factor is resources, and willingness to work, etc,. (Which we have in abundance, sure, some resources run out, but, that's why technological advances are important.)

And, as mentioned earlier, they've found, that simply beating ppl, generally leads to rebellion, etc,.

So, the concept of money was created to control you, and make you work, etc,.

Think about this, over the centuries, how many great empires have risen, and fallen, a lot, but, what if they never really fell, what if they were simply beta testing society on the live populous?

Obviously, such an undertaking is bound to have "bugs", and you can't exactly call a do over, as the people will rebel once you cross the line, etc,. (There is a lot more to this point, but, it would cloud the real discussion to go there. Needless to say, societies fall for numerous reasons, it's hard to get it right.)

So, it's obvious, you appear to fall, then rise again under a new name, in a new place, with your next version of society. (Of course, the true rulers always hide behind false leaders who are paid quite well to keep their involvement a secret.)

I imagine that only a handful of ppl even know of their existence, and most are just following orders from the top, and believe the lies, just like the majority of the population does. (I also believe it suits them to allow society to operate on it's own for the most part, they simply lay a framework which benefits them, and only intervene when necessary.)

It may sound unworkable, but, it's not, if you control the men, who control the world, then, you can in fact control the world with relative ease. (ie, A strong chain of command keeps the burden to a minimum.)

Why do I believe this, well, looking at "legacies", and "kings" and how power\wealth is passed on, it occurred to me, some of these rich families have been amassing for thousands of years, and passing that on to their children, etc,.

How could they NOT have the resources, and the connections, if they've (relatively speaking) always been rich, and keep getting richer, and keep creating connections, etc,.

It's the obvious outcome, you WILL win the world. (Which is WAY better than winning the internetz, imho.)

I believe several people have had this idea over time, thus, the 10% of the population that controls the worlds wealth, and power, etc,. (Though, it's possible they're all offspring, from different marriages, etc,.)

Think of it like, the mythology of Zeus, and all the drama they had amongst themselves, and with people too. (In fact, this mythology may be a commentary on the very individuals I speak of. A hidden message to those who would listen, from a time when speaking truths such as these was, less tolerated.)

Consider yourselves, enlightened. ;)

I don't disagree with much of this.

FrankCSIS
16th May 2013, 20:21
I'm reminded of this one college philosophy class. We're having another of those fruitless debates, when this girl just rises up, screams "we're all batteries anyway!" at the top of her lungs and storms out of the room mumbling and sobbing.

Those were the days, mang.


Do you really think it's a coincidence that something like 10% of the population holds the majority of the worlds wealth

You don't really need a legacy of Zeus offsprings to explain this reality. Two magnificent Nobel prize winners have already demonstrated how flawed the market model is. Essentially, it is a mathematical reality that over the course of time, all of the resources inevitably end up in the hands of the offer. Any and all simulations point to this outcome, regardless of claims made by market theory. Which also means the capitalist approach of concentrating the means and infrastructures of the offer to ensure mass production economies for the public will, by default, concentrate further more the resources in the hands of an ever-limited offer.

As to exclusivity, an elite is exclusive by default. The only interesting message coming out of the very average In Time flick is the idea that wealth and power does not like it when a man makes it from the streets to riches and tries to invest their circles. Contrary to the pop culture idea of self-made men, old or institutionalized money does not like new money, and rarely welcomes it with open arms. It's only when you become too large to ignore that doors open for you, and the path inside is infinitely more treacherous than the previous ascension to the so-called top.

FoShizzle
16th May 2013, 21:00
People should understand basic economy to understand why money exists...


Wink:

A wink is an informal mode of non-verbal communication usually signaling shared hidden knowledge or INTENT. -Wikipedia.com

Anyways, while my post was OBVIOUSLY, taking the idea up to "11" for laughs(mostly my own, I'd imagine..), it's not 100% BS, either, and it's main intention was getting people to think about the subject of wealth, and classes, etc, etc,.

And as for the 10%, I believe Selina Kyle said it best.



There's a storm coming, Mr. Wayne. You and your friends better batten down the hatches, because when it hits, you're all gonna wonder how you ever thought you could live so large and leave so little for the rest of us. -Selina Kyle


----

@FrankCSIS, nice post, this was the kind of stuff I was hoping to see come from my own. :)

HERESY
16th May 2013, 21:21
I'm reminded of this one college philosophy class. We're having another of those fruitless debates, when this girl just rises up, screams "we're all batteries anyway!" at the top of her lungs and storms out of the room mumbling and sobbing.

Those were the days, mang.



You don't really need a legacy of Zeus offsprings to explain this reality. Two magnificent Nobel prize winners have already demonstrated how flawed the market model is. Essentially, it is a mathematical reality that over the course of time, all of the resources inevitably end up in the hands of the offer. Any and all simulations point to this outcome, regardless of claims made by market theory. Which also means the capitalist approach of concentrating the means and infrastructures of the offer to ensure mass production economies for the public will, by default, concentrate further more the resources in the hands of an ever-limited offer.

As to exclusivity, an elite is exclusive by default. The only interesting message coming out of the very average In Time flick is the idea that wealth and power does not like it when a man makes it from the streets to riches and tries to invest their circles. Contrary to the pop culture idea of self-made men, old or institutionalized money does not like new money, and rarely welcomes it with open arms. It's only when you become too large to ignore that doors open for you, and the path inside is infinitely more treacherous than the previous ascension to the so-called top.

I don't disagree with much of this either.

sonicsidewinder
16th May 2013, 22:05
Mo' Money Mo' Problems.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
16th May 2013, 23:17
"That which is not good for the bee-hive cannot be good for the bees." :p

El_Bel
16th May 2013, 23:55
I'm reminded of this one college philosophy class. We're having another of those fruitless debates, when this girl just rises up, screams "we're all batteries anyway!" at the top of her lungs and storms out of the room mumbling and sobbing.

Those were the days, mang.



You don't really need a legacy of Zeus offsprings to explain this reality. Two magnificent Nobel prize winners have already demonstrated how flawed the market model is. Essentially, it is a mathematical reality that over the course of time, all of the resources inevitably end up in the hands of the offer. Any and all simulations point to this outcome, regardless of claims made by market theory. Which also means the capitalist approach of concentrating the means and infrastructures of the offer to ensure mass production economies for the public will, by default, concentrate further more the resources in the hands of an ever-limited offer.

As to exclusivity, an elite is exclusive by default. The only interesting message coming out of the very average In Time flick is the idea that wealth and power does not like it when a man makes it from the streets to riches and tries to invest their circles. Contrary to the pop culture idea of self-made men, old or institutionalized money does not like new money, and rarely welcomes it with open arms. It's only when you become too large to ignore that doors open for you, and the path inside is infinitely more treacherous than the previous ascension to the so-called top.

Do you have a single fact to back that up? :cool:


Eeeer, I mean, can you post some links about those two Nobel prize winners and about those simulations that you talked about? I would like to read more.

FrankCSIS
17th May 2013, 02:32
Huurfff, I've studied this nearly ten years ago, which might as well be a lifetime considering I've never worked in the economic field after graduation.

I do know it mostly has to do with velocity and aggregate supply.

Looking through my stuff, the list of Nobel winners debunking aspects of market theory is long and vast, including Joseph Stiglitz, Jan Tinbergen, Simon Kuznets, Gunnar Myrdal and James Tobin. I've wasted the past thirty minutes unsuccessfully trying to pinpoint the theorem I have in mind, however. I'm starting to think they might be Fields medalists (mathematics), and not Nobel memorial in economics.

You may consider I've failed to properly back this up, until I find back the bloody theorem. It does exist, however. I am not a communist spy trying to spread anti-capitalist views among the young gaming masses, I swear! Anyone who's followed a course or two in economical sociology is welcome to help me out here :p

El_Bel
17th May 2013, 05:30
You could just answer:

Number one, that's terror.
Number two, that's terror.

Anyway, yeah, if someone finds something, please do help Frank explain it!

FoShizzle
17th May 2013, 12:16
I was thinking about the whole classes\wealth discussion some more, and I always I come to the same conclusion.

Why do we put up with this crap?

We outnumber them, we don't even need to revolt, just tell them, hey, enough is enough. (In the USA, we could march about 200 million people onto their lawns, and be like, yeah, do you really wanna go there? Just cooperate...)

I suggest a 10 million dollar limit on PERSONAL wealth, anything beyond that, in a personal bank account, must be turned in to the government(a tax like function, perhaps, IRS just checks your numbers.).

The government WILL use it for the sole purpose of helping the less fortunate, ie, feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, but, also helping the lower class rise to the level of middle class. (Basically, my vision, is that no one should live below that standard, ie, middle class.)

Anyone caught hiding money in secret accounts WILL face serious penalties.

I understand, corporations, etc, need more than that to operate, but, we're talking specifically about the amount of cash one single person can have. (There is absolutely no need for that, you can live quite well on 10 mil, and if you CANNOT, then what's that say about the rest of us, and our lives?)

There is NO EXCUSE for this.

---

Look, I'll tell you guys something personal, that I usually wouldn't tell people.

See, my parents weren't very successful, and in fact, we ended up being homeless for several years, I was fairly young(11-12), and having experienced this AWFUL experience first hand, I can clearly, and without a doubt, say:

***** YOU!!! I'll ******** kill you, you greedy rich mother*****ers, burn in hell, PRAY WE NEVER MEET!!!!

Erm, sorry, but, yeah, ***** them.

Okay, I need to go calm down now, to be continued.. ?

Shralla
17th May 2013, 17:07
The problem:

QPKKQnijnsM

FoShizzle
18th May 2013, 08:07
The problem:


Yup, it's grim ain't it?

Like I said, we're all slaves, they allow us to persist on crumbs, because they know the whole world will collapse into chaos if they take too much. (ie, they knowingly let us live like this, and knowingly live the way that they do, and I would bet money, that they mock us for being so stupid, we're nothing to them, just worker bee's...)

I have to stop talking about this again....

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th May 2013, 12:16
It isn't a sin to be wealthy and I don't agree that any law should be passed that monitors how many millions you are allowed to have. Like any other individual, rich or poor, respect and love is earned through one's actions/deeds and not one's bank balance.

Ilves
18th May 2013, 13:55
[...] respect and love is earned through one's actions/deeds and not one's bank balance.

Political power and grip on public consciousness through media are acquired through wealth though, and that is a problem when such mind blowing financial prowess is concentrated among a culturally homogeneous elite.

FoShizzle
18th May 2013, 15:43
It isn't a sin to be wealthy.

Actually, it kinda is, when you're doing so at the expense of others. (There is only so much money, and when you hoard it, that means less for everyone else, it's really as simple as that.)

If you have more than you need, give some back, that's how MY respect is earned. (PS: I could never love a MONSTER, sorry, but, if you ever come across a conscience, give me a call, we'll talk.)

I'm not talking about giving some token gesture of a few thousand to charity either.

I remember seeing something recently, where this rich guy donated pretty much everything he had to charities, because, he realized, it was WRONG of him to live that lifestyle while so many were suffering elsewhere in the world. (I can't remember exactly who it was. ???)

----

The sooner people realize this sort of behavior is immoral, the sooner the world will start to change for the better.

I can tell you this, being poor sucked to begin with, but, this current economy is pushing many of us to the breaking point. (ie, It's probably going to get nasty if things don't improve.)

I can tell you one other thing too, we're your waiters, we pump your gas, we bag your groceries, we watch you while you sleep, do NOT, **** with us.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th May 2013, 16:40
Ilves, I agree but you can't tar everyone with the same brush and cap wealth; that was the point I wanted to make. There are a lot of people who are incredibly wealthy and are still extremely generous and do share their fortune. They actually provide a service that the respective government should be providing; but don't; or can't.


FoShizzle, it isn't even 'kind of' a sin to be wealthy. Any more than its a sin to be poor.
Perhaps I didn't explain enough in my previous post.... but I'm not excusing greed. That is a different thing altogether. But it isn't immoral to be wealthy and your "lets-threaten-the-rich" campaign worries me more than Mr Rockefeller does. :D


(There is only so much money, and when you hoard it, that means less for everyone else, it's really as simple as that.)
Don't be confused here. Money is not wealth per se; it's just something we use to move wealth around.
There is not a fixed amount of wealth in the world. You can make more. Wealth has always been created... and destroyed; but mainly created.

PS. There is a simple solution, you know. Humanity must become as One; like with the Omar. You join the Omar yet? :p

Ilves
18th May 2013, 17:06
There are a lot of people who are incredibly wealthy and are still extremely generous and do share their fortune. They actually provide a service that the respective government should be providing; but don't; or can't.

Interesting juxtaposing (lacking) government services with wealthy people's charity, as much of the wealth of the super rich ought to have been in the tax coffers to begin with. :whistle:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th May 2013, 17:19
I believe the super rich do pay into the tax coffers, yes? Are you saying they ought to pay more? If so, then let entrepreneurs continue to amass their fortunes without caps and the tax will rise accordingly.

FoShizzle
18th May 2013, 17:25
Ilves, I agree but you can't tar everyone with the same brush and cap wealth; that was the point I wanted to make.


You really can, it's black and white.

We're all born into this world, just the same, and all deserve to live the same, no one should be above or below anyone else.

Justify it however you want, evil is evil, wrong is wrong.

Look, if you have over 10 million dollars, you've WON life, seriously, retire, enjoy yourself, and leave some money for everyone else. (If you enjoy your work, or feel it's important, keep doing it, but, for FREE, or at least give it all away, STOP hoarding, that's all I ask.)

Charity is a wasted gesture beyond this point(ie, billionaires, etc,.), because you wouldn't need to be giving it back, if you hadn't STOLE it from US to begin with...



your "lets-threaten-the-rich" campaign worries me more than Mr Rockefeller does. :D


They're responsible for the suffering of millions... (It's like defending the Nazi's, seriously.)

I don't mind people who make money, and retire, and live on their money, let's NOT twist my words.

I care about people who take, and take, and take, and give back crumbs just to ease their own consciences.



If so, then let entrepreneurs continue to amass their fortunes without caps and the tax will rise accordingly.


NOW this is funny.

These people do NOTHING but whine about taxes, and how they should pay LESS, since it's coming out of millions\billions, etc,. (Seriously, I was watching this interview, this guy acted like, he supports the government, and he was entitled to special treatment, HIM, HIM, HIM, it's all about HIM, what a loser...)

Here's the thing, it's basic math, whether you take 10% of a hundred, or a billion, it's STILL 10%.

Why should THEY pay less, when 10% of a hundred, hurts a lot more than 10% of a billion, ie, at the end of the day, they're STILL rich, and I"m still poor..

Yet another reason to loathe these people...

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th May 2013, 18:12
You really can, it's black and white.
We're all born into this world, just the same, and all deserve to live the same, no one should be above or below anyone else.
Being rich, or poor, doesn't make you above or below anyone else; we are all equal. THAT part is black and white. But if you are saying we should all be millionaires... well, I would ask to do what? Spend, spend, spend?! ;)
To keep it real, I doubt the earth's resources could sustain every single human being's millionaire lifestyle. :eek:


Look, if you have over 10 million dollars, you've WON life, seriously, retire, enjoy yourself, and leave some money for everyone else.
Shouldn't retiring be a person's personal choice? Many successful businesses/entrepreneurs like to expand into other areas and, in turn, create more jobs which, in turn, helps others to prosper... and so forth. Assuming, of course, that they pay their staff a good and fair salary where they can amass savings themselves and perhaps start up their own business. All new enterprise has the potential to make another individual rich. Not all businesses out there have paid decent wages, true (including Rockefeller), but not all can be accused of being greedy either.


Charity is a wasted gesture at that point, because you wouldn't need to be giving it back, if you hadn't STOLE it from US to begin with...
Your statements are very generalised. To whom do you refer to as stealing money from us? Not all rich people can be accused of this. Please can you elaborate much more when posting points so that I can understand what can be debated. :)



I don't mind people who make money, and retire, and live on their money, let's NOT twist my words.
I care about people who take, and take, and take, and give back crumbs just to ease their own consciences.

I can agree that people who take, take, take and only give back crumbs are not altogether kind or thoughtful people; they are greedy... they could do so much more for others, yes. But you should take care to single ONLY these people out. Not everyone who is rich take, take, takes.... a lot who are rich give, give, give. :p
As I said to Ilves.... if it is more money in the tax coffers you're asking for; then the last thing you want to do is set a maximum amount of wealth attainable.



NOW this is funny.
These people do NOTHING but whine about taxes, and how they should pay LESS, since it's coming out of millions\billions, etc
...
Yet another reason to loathe these people...

Again, too generalised when you say "these people". I think you need to start naming names so that we can debate sensibly. Also, it is the government who decides what amount of tax should be paid... so if you believe they don't pay enough, then you need to contact your MP if you want to try to make changes. Believing you can make a change by simply 'loathing' these types of people is just wrong to me. :D

Ilves
18th May 2013, 18:32
I believe the super rich do pay into the tax coffers, yes? Are you saying they ought to pay more?

Capping wealth is silly, I agree. As for paying more-


Ever wonder why big car companies pay two percent tax while the guys on the
assembly line pay forty?




- some dude

Citizens and corporations alike ought to pay their due share instead of actively evading taxes and creatively exploiting legislative loopholes to max out profit. The playing field is rigged (http://youtu.be/d4o13isDdfY?t=22m), by design (be sure to hear what the French lady has to say), in favor of large corporations and the super rich. The bigger the gap (and as shown in Shralla's vid it is ridiculously huge and ever increasing), the easier it is to bend the rules to your liking and shutting down opposing voices.

All this with the bogus (http://youtu.be/d4o13isDdfY?t=31m7s) "wealth trickles down" philosophy in mind, I'm sure. :o

FoShizzle
18th May 2013, 18:41
Being rich, or poor, doesn't make you above or below anyone else; we are all equal. THAT part is black and white.


You've obviously never been poor.

You need a healthy dose of reality, give up your money, and go live the poor lifestyle for a year.

I'm talking food stamps, government cheese, the works, then tell me all about how we're equals... (Enjoy yourself, as people look down on you, and as they treat you like meat at the free clinic, etc,.)

Oh, that's if you qualify, being poor, and even homeless, does NOT guarantee that you will get any government assistance. (They tend to prefer women over men, and especially, women with children.)



But if you are saying we should all be millionaires... well, I would ask to do what? Spend, spend, spend?! ;)


You clearly haven't been listening, I would never want or need that kind of money, and that's my point.

That's your mindset, spend, spend, spend, how about thinking past meaningless little pieces of paper for a second, and seeing the people that are suffering because of it. ?

So, to do what you ask?

End suffering, of course.

(And for the record, I never said that we should all be millionaires, I simply said that no one needs more than 10 million dollars, it's excessive.)



To keep it real, I doubt the earth's resources could sustain every single human being's millionaire lifestyle. :eek:


To keep it real, math is STILL math.

Whether you buy a pizza and eat it all yourself, or share it with some friends, it's still a pizza.

(So how does letting a few greedy people eat all the good stuff, and leave us nothing but the crust make things any better?)



Shouldn't retiring be a person's personal choice?


I covered this in my "edit" see my last post.. (I edit a lot, you should always recheck my post.)



Your statements are very generalised. To whom do you refer to as stealing money from us? Not all rich people can be accused of this. Please can you elaborate much more when posting points so that I can understand what can be debated. :)


I don't know, perhaps, the 1% of the population that holds over 50% of it's wealth?

Yeah, those guys... (To be VERY clear, less than a million people in the US, have more wealth than the other nearly 300 million combined.)

If you don't see the problem with this, then, I believe our debate is over.



Believing you can make a change by simply 'loathing' these types of people is just wrong to me.


What do you suggest I do?

They have the money, they have the power, and the best I can do, is what I'm currently doing, raising awareness, and getting people to think about it, etc,.

If I had the power of a god, I'd fix everything, and want nothing in return, except to see people happy.

(Seriously, understand, that you're basically arguing with Mother Theresa, I can live off of almost nothing, and be content with it, it's the suffering of those around me, that I can't bear.)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
18th May 2013, 21:58
Hold on now.... you are arguing all sorts of points that I never disagreed with in the first place. I'm not saying that the system isn't corrupt.... or that some ought to pay more tax etc. I'm only arguing really about blanket statements that pretty much say the wealthy are scum and deserve to be loathed... and even killed lol.

You're right... I've never been "poor". My idea of poor anyway... as in starving and/or sleeping in the dirt, having to prostitute myself for a morsel to eat, or toil all day long to earn enough for a bed to sleep in etc. It is outrageous that so many people live in dire poverty. The situation is difficult to solve because we are separated as a species by country, governments, customs, religions etc. All humans really need is food, shelter and clothing in order to survive.... that is what I meant when I said we are equal. So it is the sharing of resources that ought to be the focus, not money.

Many people share your experience, Fo, and I realise you class yourself as poor because you rely on government benefits to help put food in your belly and a roof over your head and I sympathise with you but the fact that you get help already puts you in a better position that others who do not have the same luxury provided by their government, agreed? So, there are different scales to everything - from poverty to wealth. That is the point I was trying to make in my initial post.

I admire anyone that not only talks the talk, but also walks the walk. :cool: So I would be interested to hear how you/us/we/him/her can go about making changes to end the suffering.... really. Obviously, I hope ideas won't resort to violence. :p

__


EDIT: Just caught today's news and it appears the mega corp Google is in trouble due to a whistle-blower who apparently has all the documents to prove a good case against them regarding non payment of UK taxes. Sweet. This is the type of thing that is needed - rooting out the real thieves, real names, whilst armed with evidence to back it up. I also believe the UK government need to drastically improve the tax system and update the laws as soon as they can.... should have been done already; so they are also responsible for this situation.

HERESY
20th May 2013, 06:10
It's nice to see people actually giving a **** and talking about this.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
20th May 2013, 09:35
I'll talk about anything, me. :naughty:

But, seriously, I do prefer to stick to facts and figures, rather than mere speculation, on these kinds of issues and I like to avoid any sweeping judgements or statements. That's just the way I am.

FrankCSIS
20th May 2013, 12:57
You've got some pretty nice facts and figures in Shralla's vid ;)

CyberP
20th May 2013, 14:23
@FoShizzle: Not to say your points should be overlooked, but it could always be worse. At least there ARE government handouts for those in need in US, UK etc.


Who is poor in South Africa?

Average annual black income in 2011: $2,300
Mixed-race (coloured): $4,300
Asian: $7.700
White: $17,500

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22554709

I agree some of the elite should do something about it. Start their own "save the world" foundation. Not only will it get people out of poverty, it would create jobs.
There are not enough caring individuals among the wealthy.
Sure, you NEED inequality in the distribution of wealth, but you don't need disgusting poverty.


Mo' Money Mo' Problems.

This is far from the truth. Living in disease ridden, foodless poverty where you cannot even afford toilet paper to wipe your ass and so on are some really plentiful & big ******* problems.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
20th May 2013, 16:35
You've got some pretty nice facts and figures in Shralla's vid ;)
Yes; I meant we also need names, names, names and proof, proof, proof. :D


@FoShizzle: Not to say your points should be overlooked, but it could always be worse. At least there ARE government handouts for those in need in US, UK etc.

Sure, you NEED inequality in the distribution of wealth, but you don't need disgusting poverty.

Agree with both points.

ColBashar
24th May 2013, 01:51
There's a difference between "wealth" as described in that video that Shralla linked and disposable income, which seems to be what FoShizzle is talking about. For most of the wealthy, particularly in that 1%, disposable income is a very, very small fraction of their overall wealth. Most of it is invested in either tangible assets or capital investment in tangible assets. In other words, it's made up of equity.

Anybody that thinks that ten million dollars is too much in terms of equity doesn't have a very good conception of what it constitutes. If I should, say, own a factory that manufactures automobiles then right off the bat my wealth is going to exceed ten million dollars in terms of the value of the land my factory is built on, the structure itself, the machine required to do the actual construction, and any IP as pertains to the designs and technology that goes into my automobiles. So even if I have a modest salary of thirty grand a year, drive a prius, and buy my suits at JC Pennys, I am by virtue of FoShizzle's litmus test a "sinner".

How do I "give back" a wrench if I need that to tighten the nuts holding my tires in place? How do I "give back" a crane that lowers engines into my chassis? That wealth, that equity, constitutes my business. Not only does it represent my own livelihood but it is the means by which my employees have work and my customers have cars.

Now if somebody wants to argue the benefit of cooperatives versus sole proprietorship versus corporations, that's a whole other topic of discussion. I'm just pointing out that much of the "wealth" as described in the video above comes in terms of things which most people don't think of in our ordinary lives or have any real comprehension of.

It really doesn't come as a surprise to me that half of the equity in the United States should be owned by 300,000 people. Not when you consider that the types of equity owned by these people is vastly more expensive than the types of equity owned by everybody else. To the Average American "equity" translates to a car and a house, not a factory or machine tools which in terms of value can occupy the same worth as a multitude of cars and houses. So it turns out that, yeah, the rich really are different and it's as much a difference is kind as it is in degree.
_ _ _

Does this mean there isn't a problem? No, there is. But it's not in the disparity of equity. That's the symptom, not the cause. The real problem lies in the diminishing level of social mobility that exists in contemporary society.

There are a lot of factors as to why that is but the one that sticks out in my mind is the obfuscatory system of laws in force. Ilves touches on this point in claiming that the system is "rigged". It's not but in a way I wish it were because then it would be easier to fix.

I first played Deus Ex about ten years ago, a little longer really. At the time I could never understand how anybody could choose the New Dark Age ending. It just seemed so wrong, so destructive, so negative. It took me a while but eventually I got a better understanding of what Tracer Tong was getting at. The destruction of the Aquinas protocol wasn't an ends in of itself but a means toward his ultimate goal: "government on a scale comprehensible to its citizens."

The problem with the laws isn't that they're rigged but that they're incomprehensible to the common man. The rules that define our lives, what's acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, culpability from innocence, are codified in texts that we are uneducated to read. In order to comprehend them we have to turn to a select group of people, lawyers, to decipher and translate these secret texts. I'm not ragging on lawyers, I have a great deal of respect for them, but I regret their necessity in our society. Or, more correctly, I regret the degree to which they are necessary.

I don't bisect society along a poverty line. I bisect it on the mobility line. Those who can afford a lawyer are much more mobile than those who can't. Until we take measures to make laws comprehensible, the price tag of that mobility will continue to be $300 per hour and only grow with time.

Ultimately, democracy does us no good if 90% of the electorate doesn't understand the legislation they're voting on. In such a situation people's votes -can- be bought by slick advertising and marketing, services in the pockets of the wealthy. But a genuinely wise society made up of people who take an active interest in civics and make an effort to participate in the political process is impervious to that kind of influence.

Mandating the government to forcibly transfer wealth from one segment of the population at best only patches over the problem, at worst it trades one master for another. People talk a lot about the greed of the wealthy. That doesn't frighten me half so much as the apathy of the middle class.

FrankCSIS
24th May 2013, 03:21
What you bring up about lawyers and mobility rings so many bells in the current context.

The city of Montreal, and indeed the entire province of Quebec, has been in political turmoil for nearly two years now, not unlike many regions of the world. The political elite, as well as the engineering class and construction consortiums, some workers unions and organised crime have been under fire for months now, regarding scandals of impossible proportions. A full-fledged kickback system between conspiring engineering and constructions firms and the political class has come to light with undeniable proofs. Every level of the government body has been exposed as participating actors in this scheme, in one way or another. Billions of taxpayers money has been detoured in the limited pockets of actors of such institutionalised crime, and this, for decades. It was folklore before, it is now undeniable and proven true in front of a commission as I type these lines.

Ministers have resigned. The mayor of Montreal has resigned. The mayor of Laval, the third largest city in the province, a man considered a monarch who has reigned over his empire for thirty plus years, was arrested and accused of gangsterism. Mayors across the province have either been forced to resign, or were arrested. World-class engineering firms have been targeted by the specially formed investigation unit, and some of their leaders were either expelled or arrested. One of them, detained in Switzerland for having financed Kadafi, was piloting the construction of one of the largest and most advanced hospital in Canada, among many, many government-sponsored projects.

Everyone, as I said, is currently under fire, one way or another. Every handshake a politician might have given in the past is under investigation. Proximity to firms and crime syndicates are being exposed. Men who used to own this province are now persona non grata.

One class of people has made this enormous scheme possible. One class has been transmuting the illegal and the impossible into legal probabilities. One class has been playing the field every which way till Sunday for the past fifty years, protecting the vast empires of elected crooks and gangsters, of engineers and unions, and of course, organised crime. Lawyers.

Interestingly enough, no one from that class has been targeted thus far. No lawyer has been called in front of the commission. No lawyer has been specifically targeted by the special intelligence unit. The first press article about the involvement of lawyers was published yesterday.

This class, those men, are the true princes of this society. Never a dirty hand, never in the spotlight, never too large or too wealthy to attract attention, they hold the important cards, the ones maintaining the castle together. If or when the house of cards crumbles, they walk away, and build a new one with fresh foundations, and new players.

I was discussing with one such lawyer today. A truly untouchable man. A man which nothing can possibly reach. I can act and be pretty unremarkable. I was trained to be unremarkable. I make a living of being unremarkable. To the eye of such an untouchable man, I did not matter in the least. I was not even an occurring in his daily routine. And I am sure he has forgotten our meeting, as soon as it ended. This class of lawyer, even in an insignificant country like Canada in the grand scheme of things, is a demi-god, and he knows it very well.

With finance moguls using their mobility to toy with money, and lawyers washing out the sins of a crooked class of politicians and engineers, what chance does the blue collar have to get his rightful part of the cake, even as he strives and works hard to earn his real estate in paradise? What chance does he have, when my agency is not prepared to undergo the investigations which would have the most impact on society? The very fabric of our institutions are being distorted by such men, and the only agencies with the resources and mandate to act on it are a part of said institutions, and are castrated at the source.

Like many, I spend a good deal of time escaping with all sorts of outlets, this place included. As events unfold outside my office window however, I truly don't know what to do about it all. The more we dig, the longer and bigger this wormhole gets. It's not, per say, a conspiracy to run the world. It's mostly, as you stated, the men with the necessary mobility to own it as they please, and the princes who offer them the leverage to do so. I'm tired, and perhaps rambling more than I should tonight, but the ugliness we've brought to light has been a sickening sight to all 8 million Quebecers this year, and there is not a single doubt in my mind there are much uglier monsters roaming the bigger empires, such as the US, France, and England.

Spyhopping
24th May 2013, 11:02
Great stuff Frank. Wish I had the time or the lack of headache to properly respond today, but that reads like some sort of urban mythological novel. I'm hanging out with the legal crowd at the moment and it seems like a wonderful lifestyle, but well and truly dragged down with mundane reality.




The problem with the laws isn't that they're rigged but that they're incomprehensible to the common man. The rules that define our lives, what's acceptable and unacceptable behaviour, culpability from innocence, are codified in texts that we are uneducated to read. In order to comprehend them we have to turn to a select group of people, lawyers, to decipher and translate these secret texts. I'm not ragging on lawyers, I have a great deal of respect for them, but I regret their necessity in our society. Or, more correctly, I regret the degree to which they are necessary.

... People talk a lot about the greed of the wealthy. That doesn't frighten me half so much as the apathy of the middle class.

Fantastic, intelligently written post. I find myself nodding along with your last sentence.

The incomprehensibility of law does seem to be a huge problem. There's a principle usually quoted in Latin, just to make it more incomprehensible for everyone (ignorantia juris non excusat) which basically means that ignorance of the law is no excuse. So in court you are always assumed to know the state of the law. This is not only ridiculously unrealistic, but it is absolutely essential to the effectiveness of it, so still it stands.

CyberP
26th May 2013, 18:19
Check this out. A well-argued (for once) "enlightenment" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP7L8bw5QF4

FrankCSIS
27th May 2013, 01:57
but that reads like some sort of urban mythological novel

This is stuff nightmares are made of. One of the truly iconic moments of this investigation occurred last December. Members of the special investigation unit paid a visit to one of Laval mayor's luxury flat, and found his cousin desperately trying to flush loads of money down the toilet. The truly hilarious part? Since last fall, Canada has introduced polymer money, replacing the traditional paper bills. December 3rd 2012 is the day Canadians found out polymer money floats, and cannot be flushed.

Let me reiterate. The detectives walked in on an hysterical woman screaming at the toilet because the large pile of hundred dollar bills she threw in would not go down the drain. You can't make up **** like this. We all laughed, and we were all truly and properly broken by this tale. I have no idea how the province will recover from this ongoing investigation. The commission asked for an extra year and half, because of the enormous amount of witnesses she has yet to interrogate, and the never-ending list of newly-uncovered events.

Dead-Eye
28th May 2013, 01:04
You could just answer:

Number one, that's terror.
Number two, that's terror.

Anyway, yeah, if someone finds something, please do help Frank explain it!
I lol'ed.



I suggest a 10 million dollar limit on PERSONAL wealth, anything beyond that, in a personal bank account, must be turned in to the government(a tax like function, perhaps, IRS just checks your numbers.).

I think that would just make the problem worse, honestly. But that's because I believe the IRS serves no other purpose then to take money from US Citizens and put it into the Illuminati's pocket book, none of the money the IRS collects goes to government, it all goes to the FED to pay the debt on the lone we "allegedly" owe them for their service. IRS is really just a criminal mafia. Hell that's probably why the could take down Al Capone, he was their own guy!


All humans really need is food, shelter and clothing in order to survive.... that is what I meant when I said we are equal. So it is the sharing of resources that ought to be the focus, not money.

I would add sex/companionship to that, for mental sanity. But maybe I'm bias.


It's nice to see people actually giving a **** and talking about this.
Yeah, that's why I started this thread in the first place. Because this forum is one of the few places left that they still allow talking about things like this.


I'll talk about anything, me. :naughty:

But, seriously, I do prefer to stick to facts and figures, rather than mere speculation, on these kinds of issues and I like to avoid any sweeping judgements or statements. That's just the way I am.

Here's a few facts for you, bankers really do rule the world:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/bankers-rule-the-world-the-network-of-global-corporate-control/28235

Combine this with the fact HSBC get's caught laundering trillions in money for Mexican Drug Cartels and terrorists (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/07/2012716213139157207.html), and gets slap on the wrist penalties (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/hsbc-really-too-big-jail-231053729.html) then it becomes clear.

The Illuminati obviously exist, these facts prove it. I mean they put the symbol of the Illuminati on the back of the dollar bill people! And then HSBC get's caught committing mass murder (because that's what this really is) and they get fined virtually nothing! Eric Holder should just come out and say "Bankers are above the law because they are the Illuminati" I mean that's basically what he's said, without actually saying it.

CyberP
28th May 2013, 01:21
And here I was thinking you were just role-playing a deluded bum from Deus Ex, or were a deluded bum after posts like this:


P.S. Anyone inquiring into the time I thought I was being hunted by the Illuminati, I realized they're con-men out there, who probably work for the Illuminati, who will manipulate you into going crazy by playing off your justified paranoia and turn it into disillusion paranoia. Fortunately I figured out he was a Con-man before I got myself into any real trouble. Illuminati sill exist though... but alas.

But your post above seems pretty sane! Provided "facts", didn't go off on some long-ass nonsensical rant, threw in something about sex, and strengthened your argument with common knowledge (Symbol on dollar).
I have to inquire into this though:


Yeah, that's why I started this thread in the first place. Because this forum is one of the few places left that they still allow talking about things like this.

Huh?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
29th May 2013, 08:08
From what I've read in the past, the Templars and the Illuminati are not one of the same. Afaik, the Templar were Christian soldiers whose reign ended with the Inquisition and the Illuminati formed later - they opposed the Church. So I thought they were completely different to each other.

Dead-Eye
8th Jun 2013, 05:41
I'm battling the Illuminati on a daily basis, we're engaged in spirit wars. Bioshock Infinite was a game where the Illuminati told me specifically that they were coming after me.

Why have the Illuminati targeted me specifically? Am I really the Lizard King?

Before you ask, yes I am drunk while I'm writing this, I took black walnut hulk tincture to fight off the Nanobots the Illuminati put in my BRAIN STEM! AUHHHGGG!!!

Don't you see world! Deus Ex IS REAL!!! It's right before you! They had JC Denton At Area 51 back in the 90s!!!

Do you realize what kinda power the Illuminati has!!!

Ugh... shouldn't post drunk.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Jun 2013, 10:04
Not a problem.... have another drink on me. :D :thumb:
Long live artistic freedom and imagination. :cool:

Pinky_Powers
8th Jun 2013, 19:10
The title of this thread remains a splinter in my brain every time I read it.

Thanking a Japanese-owned Canadian company for upholding American law...
:mad2:

Lmaoboat
8th Jun 2013, 21:03
I think it's nice that insane asylums are letting inmates use the internet to get some socialization these days.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Jun 2013, 23:32
Seconded. :D

FrankCSIS
18th Jun 2013, 01:15
Bumping this thread for a giggle-worthy update. The mayor of Montreal was arrested this morning by our special investigation unit on charges of corruption. He was the interim mayor, following the resignation of the previous mayor. It is unclear at this point whether there will be another interim, before the November elections. If the whole thing is sickening, it does provide for an endless source of entertainment and plot twists. I heavily recommend this exercise to Spain, France, England and the grand US of A. Special commissions with unlimited jurisdiction are wonderful to look at on tv.

FrankCSIS
27th Jun 2013, 23:45
Surely nobody is following this, but I have to write it somewhere. With the monarch of Laval arrested for gangsterism, and the interim mayor of Montreal pursued for bribery and fraud, the interim mayor of Laval is currently the victim of extortion and blackmail.

What is he being blackmailed for? Our sources indicate he has called in the services of at least one escort in mid-June, and greeted her dressed as a woman. The same man is also under investigation for electoral fraud.

I never tire of the frivolities of the high and mighty!

With the allegations surrounding the mayor of Toronto, it's a good year to be a mayor in Canada!

hybridex
29th Jun 2013, 20:01
Yes, it's nice that we can speculate about things like that without it getting political, seeing as it's a strong theme in the game. It'd be much more fun if the illuminati did exist. :nut:



I don't understand. A con man working for the illuminati pretending to work for the illuminati..?

Where I come from.. we call them the NSA.. oops, did I say that? ****