PDA

View Full Version : Deus Ex: Human Defiance (Upcoming Movie)



Shaikh
27th Feb 2013, 08:59
Square Enix trademarked Deus Ex: Human Defiance

http://www.abload.de/img/capture6tumd.png


Possible follow-up to Human Revolution

Square Enix has filed a trademark for Deus Ex: Human Defiance, pointing towards a possible follow up to 2011's Deus Ex: Human Revolution.

Filed on Square Enix's behalf by trademark attorneys Williams Powell, the application (http://tmview.europa.eu/tmview/basicSearch.html?ST13=EM500000011605474) was submitted on February 26. The application was spotted by a member of NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516444). A new title has yet to be announced by Square Enix.

The publisher is currently collaborating with CBS films on a Deus Ex film adaptation (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/379014/director-confirmed-for-deus-ex-human-revolution-film-adaptation/) to be directed by Scott Derrickson. The 2011 title performed well in Europe, but not so well (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/325189/deus-ex-human-revolution-sells-218-million/) in North America.


Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/393412/square-enix-files-trademark-for-deus-ex-human-defiance/)

OMG! I am too excited! Hopefully this is DX4. :D

Ashpolt
27th Feb 2013, 10:22
IT'S GOING TO BE SO CRAP THEY'RE RUINING THE FRANCHISE JUST MAKE IT LIKE THE FIRST ONE WITH BETTER GRAPHICS STOP DUMBING IT DOWN FOR CASUALS

Am I officially the first person to complain about Deus Ex 4? I hope so!

SageSavage
27th Feb 2013, 10:42
No, no, no. I did some stealth complaining long before you even showed up! Invisible bragging ftw!

68_pie
27th Feb 2013, 10:50
The name is ****.

SpecX
27th Feb 2013, 11:07
Deus Ex Human Defiance, will be the next instalment in the Deus Ex series. Date announced at the 2013 E3 conference.

Can't wait!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex_(series)

AlexOfSpades
27th Feb 2013, 12:12
IT'S GOING TO BE SO CRAP THEY'RE RUINING THE FRANCHISE JUST MAKE IT LIKE THE FIRST ONE WITH BETTER GRAPHICS STOP DUMBING IT DOWN FOR CASUALS

Am I officially the first person to complain about Deus Ex 4? I hope so!

Damn you and your fast fingers!

Well, we already complained about the game. I may as well leave the forums

68_pie
27th Feb 2013, 12:31
So I may as well stick in a list of things that this needs to be a good Deus Ex game (for me obviously):

Alternatives to fighting bosses/avoid bosses entirely
Overhaul the XP system
Bring back skills
Make augmentations mutually exclusive
Have a greater number of useful augmentations
Leaning
First person only
Shadow stealth
Bring back melee combat (takedowns can still be there but but have them as a reward for sneaking up behind someone and keep them FPP)
More choice and more meaningful consequences
Get rid of the black and gold theme
Don't use characters form the original
Mantling (HR was based on the Tomb Raider engine, how in gods' names did it not have mantling)

oh, and change the god awful name - it sounds like it's the new Red Faction or something.

*waits for MyImmortal's inevitable post saying whatever design decisions EM make the game will be amazing*

AlexOfSpades
27th Feb 2013, 12:34
So I may as well stick in a list of things that Eidos will not implement:

Alternatives to fighting bosses/avoid bosses entirely
Overhaul the XP system
Bring back skills
Make augmentations mutually exclusive
Have a greater number of useful augmentations
Leaning
First person only
Shadow stealth
Bring back melee combat (takedowns can still be there but but have them as a reward for sneaking up behind someone and keep them FPP)
More choice and more meaningful consequences
Get rid of the black and gold theme
Don't use characters form the original

Fixed that for you

Edit: Yay, unnecessarily pessimistic! We're getting the forums back on its roots.

68_pie
27th Feb 2013, 12:44
Fixed that for you

Edit: Yay, unnecessarily pessimistic! We're getting the forums back on its roots.

I paid 10 pounds for DXHR - I'd need to see some of those implemented in order for me to pay that for another EM DX game.

Shaikh
27th Feb 2013, 12:49
Deus Ex Human Defiance, will be the next instalment in the Deus Ex series. Date announced at the 2013 E3 conference.

Can't wait!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex_(series) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deus_Ex_%28series%29)

:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :o :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

Ashpolt
27th Feb 2013, 13:05
Damn you and your fast fingers!

Are you....complaining about me complaining about DX4?

Senka
27th Feb 2013, 13:58
So while it could be another dx book it sounds more likely it's going to be the next DX game - remember Eidos montreal has been working on an unannounced project.

Googling around shows this from 10 months ago:

A “major Canadian company” has various vacancies available for a “semi open-world action adventure title that responds to player choice and interaction.”

The project, according to the listing, is based upon an existing IP which is a “well known and respected action/adventure title, with elements of choice and stealth within the gameplay.”

Future iterations of the franchise also “intend to really take advantage of the new platforms coming in the next two years to provide an experience with unparralled realism, depth and consequence for player action and choice.”

Which, regardless of its actual relevance to dx, makes me wonder what platforms they will be targeting (ps4?) and what engine (unreal 4?) they'd use.

ZakKa89
27th Feb 2013, 14:15
THRILLED

EricaLeeV
27th Feb 2013, 14:31
Cautious but anticipatory.



The name is ****.

...Yeah. I feel you there.

I'm just thinking that they might really try and sell it like the it's part of the 'new Deus Ex' or maybe it is a continuation of Adam's story somehow.

:-D
27th Feb 2013, 14:40
Deus Ex: Human Defiance?

Is that a subtle reference to the ubiquitous Thief 4 NDA?

SageSavage
27th Feb 2013, 14:50
*PREMATURE RAGEQUIT!*

Jensen14
27th Feb 2013, 15:05
OH MY GOD i hope that will be e SEQUEL of human revolution, will be fantastic!! My dream.!...i don't want the porting WII-U

nomotog
27th Feb 2013, 15:07
Nice. I wonder what we will argue about first. Who knows maybe this one Will be a carting game.

JCpies
27th Feb 2013, 15:10
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_maq3pfAjdB1rsb37po4_r1_500.gif

It's coming out too soon. I'll never be able to join Eidos Montreal in time to work on it.

It must be the eagerly awaited iPad spin off.

Jensen14
27th Feb 2013, 15:24
out too soon? deus ex human revolution= out on 2011 and today is 27 february 2013.
if announced before the 2014 does not come out.

for me 3 years of waiting more than a few, the problem is that eidos montreal is developing thief4 , so it is likely that this comes out for the 2014/2015

El_Bel
27th Feb 2013, 15:25
So I may as well stick in a list of things that this needs to be a good Deus Ex game (for me obviously):

Alternatives to fighting bosses/avoid bosses entirely
Overhaul the XP system
Bring back skills
Make augmentations mutually exclusive
Have a greater number of useful augmentations
Leaning
First person only
Shadow stealth
Bring back melee combat (takedowns can still be there but but have them as a reward for sneaking up behind someone and keep them FPP)
More choice and more meaningful consequences
Get rid of the black and gold theme
Don't use characters form the original
Mantling (HR was based on the Tomb Raider engine, how in gods' names did it not have mantling)
Make boss battles more personal.
Make them harder to battle because of their augmentations, don't just give them a ton of hitpoints.
Takedowns or special moves (typhoon) don't freeze time. Seriously, wtf?
Takedowns don't eat up energy, but can only be done if enemy is unaware.
Fire Mary DeMarle. Make James Swallow lead writer.
Get rid of health regeneration and bring back localized damage system.
For the love of god, no health regeneration. Bring back localized damage system.

oh, and change the god awful name - it sounds like it's the new Red Faction or something.

*waits for MyImmortal's inevitable post saying whatever design decisions EM make the game will be amazing*

Well, that was an excelent list! Let me add some!



My gf (who does not play games, at all.. well she playes facebook games but anyway) played deus ex. She was ecstatic about the tension of being close to death. She was happy to find candy bars and soda cans. When she found a medkit or a machine that gave sodas, we had a party! Like Warren Spector said, you must give rewards to players. HR takes away a reward item! She liked so much to run around like that, that she didn't install Health regeneration augmentation. For the record, i was just watching. I didn't want to influence her gameplay at all.

Or better then James Swallow get this guy.


I had my own thoughts about how the storyline of Deus Ex: HR would play out. They didn’t turn out to be very accurate, but I’d still like to list them here. Most of my predictions were gleaned from the Deus Ex Continuity Bible, a document used to maintain consistency in the game world during that game’s development. It details the world of 2052 and the history that led up to it. Eidos Montréal used it as a springboard, as evidenced by this quote from Narrative Designer Mary DeMerle: “Not only have we heard about the Deus Ex bible, it was also required reading before we began work on the story concept for Human Revolution. After reading it, we spent several months filling in some of the blanks in its timeline and history in order to create the characters, companies, cities, and world events that exist in 2027″. As such, my predictions stemmed from combining the timeline in the Continuity Bible with the available information from various previews. I present them here:

Human Revolution’s overarching narrative thread would focus on the very beginning of the schism between the Illuminati and Majestic 12 (the latter ultimately absorbing the former’s power structures sets up the plot of Deus Ex). One passage in the Continuity Bible specifically describes MJ-12 as “the Illuminati’s technology and communications [arm]. It doles out technological advances and stores those the world is not yet ready for (or those too powerful to give to potential enemies)”. Keeping that in mind, I saw David Sarif and his company as being the most significant front for MJ-12 and the site of their most important research. It would also mean that Sarif indirectly answered to Bob Page. Largely through the Illuminati’s stewardship, MJ-12 could exert a considerable level of control over the development of augmentation technology through Neuropozyne. This is actually a similar situation to the one in Deus Ex: just replace augmentations with the Gray Death and Neuropozyne with Ambrosia.

The bible also mentions that MJ-12 was starting work on nanotechnology around the year 2023. They needed a test subject for experimentation and ended up choosing a young Paul Denton because he had “the most suitable physique and genetic makeup for the nano-augmentation project. His immune system was excellent, yet he had no allergic reactions to non-biological foreign materials in his body”. This led me to believe that Paul (who was nine years old in 2027) was in fact the “Patient X” that Megan Reed was working on. Her progress on universal augmentation acceptance would then threaten the Illuminati’s method of control through Neuropozyne, forcing them to put this development on the back burner.

The first sign of MJ-12′s secession would be David Sarif’s unwillingness to comply with the Illuminati’s directives, in part because he wanted Sarif Industries to helm this discovery, but also because he genuinely desired to make augmentations available to everyone. The attack on his company by a group of mercenaries then becomes a warning from the Illuminati. Sarif knew this and backed off, but hatched a plan of his own that centred around Adam Jensen. Severely wounded in the attack, Sarif arranged for Adam to be mechanically augmented (“I never asked for this”). He specifically went through this trouble because he knew Megan was still alive and the history between Adam and Megan; the former would relentlessly pursue the latter (“I’ll never stop looking”). Sarif also uses this opportunity to test out Megan’s research on a human subject, and this is the reason that Adam doesn’t require any Neuropozyne.

This setup then leads into the game proper. Adam follows a couple of leads and eventually uncovers (part of) the truth. When he confronts Sarif with his discoveries, the latter reveals that a contingency was installed during Adam’s augmentation procedures: a killphrase. An example of how that exchange could go:

DAVID SARIF
I knew you’d go after her with everything you have, Adam. But everything you have is everything we gave you.
ADAM JENSEN
Including a killphrase.
Realising that Sarif has leverage over him, Adam is coerced into following his orders and continuing the search for Megan and her team. Now Adam might be more susceptible to other factions who play on the fact that he had two fundamental choices taken away from him. As JC Denton needed Tracer Tong to disable his killswitch, so must Adam seek out help to free him from Sarif’s grasp. Eventually, the ultimate plot twist would be Bob Page’s own agenda. While initially siding with Sarif against the Illuminati, his final goal is the one that Deus Ex plays out: becoming a living god. He is already making preparations for that by co-opting MJ-12′s work, and the research around Paul Denton and nano-augmentation is a first step to what he requires.

As a whole, this speculative storyline is debunked right out of the gate by Human Revolution’s intro sequence. It turns out that Jensen is Patient X, and several sidequests in the game merely allude to the fact that he was one of the genetic experiments in MJ-12′s research. Human Revolution never runs with this, and the questions about Jensen’s past are never cleared up in full. The main storyline is more important because it has potential to stand on its own. Eidos Montréal cleverly keep the more congruous links to the Deus Ex canon in the background. You can remove all traces of the Illuminati and relegate the conflict to corporations, and the story would still gel.

http://playthroughline.com/2011/09/18/short-script-deus-ex-human-revolution/

nomotog
27th Feb 2013, 15:33
Oh god it's going to be health regeneration again. I'll get the mop.

68_pie
27th Feb 2013, 15:44
Let me add some!

I can't believe I forgot health regen and localised damage. Please forgive me.

xaduha2
27th Feb 2013, 15:48
Yay, the good old days are returning! Speculation, whining and 0.01 of actual information! And let it brew! 3-5 years is about right.

JCpies
27th Feb 2013, 16:03
I knew the forum would be back to full health in no time.

El_Bel
27th Feb 2013, 16:11
So I may as well stick in a list of things that this needs to be a good Deus Ex game (for me obviously):

Alternatives to fighting bosses/avoid bosses entirely
Overhaul the XP system
Bring back skills
Make augmentations mutually exclusive
Have a greater number of useful augmentations
Leaning
First person only
Shadow stealth
Bring back melee combat (takedowns can still be there but but have them as a reward for sneaking up behind someone and keep them FPP)
More choice and more meaningful consequences
Get rid of the black and gold theme
Don't use characters form the original
Mantling (HR was based on the Tomb Raider engine, how in gods' names did it not have mantling)
oh, and change the god awful name - it sounds like it's the new Red Faction or something.
Make boss battles more personal.
Make them harder to battle because of their augmentations, don't just give them a ton of hitpoints.
Takedowns or special moves (typhoon) don't freeze time. Seriously, wtf?
Takedowns don't eat up energy, but can only be done if enemy is unaware.
Fire Mary DeMarle. Make James Swallow lead writer.
Get rid of health regeneration and bring back localized damage system.
For the love of god, no health regeneration. Bring back localized damage system.
Or better then James Swallow get this guy.
http://playthroughline.com/2011/09/18/short-script-deus-ex-human-revolution/
Stephen Shellen must come back, or no buy.


Added one more thing.

68_pie
27th Feb 2013, 16:25
Added one more thing.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one. I found Sarif's voice intensely annoying. :rasp:

I think someone needs to make a poll on the odds of the tentacle aug making an appearance.

JCpies
27th Feb 2013, 16:29
https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/79d8df153f681c397cf7c6fcf1e6751b/tumblr_mfzh2bMUz91rwqjwso1_r1_500.gif

Haters about.

ZakKa89
27th Feb 2013, 16:49
Defiance:

1. The act or an example of defying; bold resistance to an opposing force or authority.
2. Intentionally contemptuous behavior or attitude; readiness to contend or resist.

OH, oh! We will fight against the illuminati? MJ12? Let the speculation begin! :naughty:

JCpies
27th Feb 2013, 17:04
Well considering the fiasco on Panchaea, my first thought was 'humanity defying' augmentations.

ZakKa89
27th Feb 2013, 17:16
Let's over-analyse as much as possible. :D

Confirmed for Wii U with hacking minigame integrated into the controller? Or minimap?

HERESY
27th Feb 2013, 19:21
If this is a game, we should have the option of playing in third person. Also, keep Warren Spector away from the project as there is no need for his services, advice, suggestions, opinions, etc. This is your game. Keep it in the "spirit" of DX:HR and do NOT attempt to remake the relics of the past. Not too many people of importance care about the two relics so stay away from those.

ETA: Joystiq just posted an article and this could be related to the Wii U. However, EM had no comment.

ZakKa89
27th Feb 2013, 19:32
If this is a game, we should have the option of playing in third person.

xSLlZh9yelk

HERESY
27th Feb 2013, 19:39
xSLlZh9yelk

There is nothing wrong with an option. With my own hands I've proven why the option is a good thing, wouldn't take away from resources, creates a sense of "immersion", etc. Just click on my name and read all of my classic posts related to the topic and you'll see this. See, I'm asking for an option. People such as yourself don't want me to have the option yet you guys go on and on about player choice and the option to do this or that.

Shralla
27th Feb 2013, 19:47
There is nothing wrong with an option.

Except when that option is a detriment to the rest of the game. Which a perspective switch inherently is.

HERESY
27th Feb 2013, 19:51
Except when that option is a detriment to the rest of the game. Which a perspective switch inherently is.

The option isn't a detriment to the rest of the game. I've already explained this in my classic posts. Do yourself a favor and read them because every argument/premise the "first person only" crowd has cried for has been shot down in flames.

The proof is there, man.

SageSavage
27th Feb 2013, 20:34
Copypasta-thread to the rescue!

Spyhopping
27th Feb 2013, 21:12
Woooho fantastic!! DX:HD? I suppose this means it'll look good. :nut:

First thing that came to mind.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/Defianceposter08.jpg/220px-Defianceposter08.jpg

Spyhopping
27th Feb 2013, 21:51
Great, I missed coming here to read passive aggressive rants about almost nothing :P

EricaLeeV
27th Feb 2013, 22:34
Great, I missed coming here to read passive aggressive rants about almost nothing :P

It's one of the great joys of life.


And congrats Spy on making the first, of what I'm sure are the many to come, HD jokes. You are a trendsetter! :D

HERESY
27th Feb 2013, 22:47
And no MP. Keep that out of the game.

Snake04
27th Feb 2013, 23:55
If this is DX 4 I hope its in first person only I mean I loved HR but that camera swap.... Annoyed me. Also health regen wasn't bad in HR but I would love a system similar to Dx1 and first person cover and leaning I got HR on PS3 and but I have a proper pc now.
Come on baby please be dx4 please I'm gonna cry give me a moment....

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 00:18
A bunch of posts deleted because they violate the ToU.
You all know the rules by now. Take personal arguments off the board and to PMs.

Saerain
28th Feb 2013, 00:44
I don't see that multiplayer is necessarily bad. It's great to share entertainment with friends. The problem I see is that the multiplayer experience tends to try to be its own separate game, rather than an alternative way of experiencing the same game. I understand why: it's not easy to develop a multiplayer campaign with multiplayer dialogue and a multiplayer story. I'm just saying that I think it's not hard to imagine a good Deus Ex multiplayer experience. Just may cost more zots than it's worth.

Anyway, my #1 hope for a sequel is, petty as it may seem, that it's 100% first-person. I thought I understood the reasoning for the out-of-body experiences in HR before release, but once playing through the game I actually didn't feel that it added anything. Also, I'd prefer to stay in my head while playing DX:HD with the Oculus Rift. :naughty:

I would also say that I hope EM not necessarily funneling the setting down to being consistent with the original Deus Ex. I'd rather they consider HR a reboot than a prequel doomed to lead to... that.

FrankCSIS
28th Feb 2013, 00:46
Woooho fantastic!! DX:HD? I suppose this means it'll look good. :nut:

First thing that came to mind.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5e/Defianceposter08.jpg/220px-Defianceposter08.jpg

The one movie where Craig fully channeled Steve McQueen, all the way to the poster.

If it means we'll be forced into exile, hunting and picking our enemies in the dark, and be forced to take hard decisions and turn on our own brothers, then Defiance can be their inspiration anytime!

sonicsidewinder
28th Feb 2013, 01:18
Yay, the good old days are returning! Speculation, whining and 0.01 of actual information! And let it brew! 3-5 years is about right.


I knew the forum would be back to full health in no time.


Like old times! (http://youtu.be/n9eiC07tc7c?t=8m22s)

"Deus Ex" - Check.

"Human" - Continuity Check.

"Defiance" - Buzz-word Check.

And so begins the very long wait.

Battling corporate PR to get game development info.

The truth hidden behind lies and proxies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTpt0zsPYwc).

Bring it. :D

Jensen14
28th Feb 2013, 01:27
-I do not want the multiplayer is the bane of many brands
-I want a single campaign even more longevity of HR with location more extensive and more sub quests
-the first-person view that changes in coverage in the third-person, I really liked it and would not change
- the boss battle is the ugliest thing in the game, I did not like at all, and at odds with the context of the game.

I hope all the rest remains as it is, and I hope NOT, simplify and maintain the structure. of the HR.

Jerion
28th Feb 2013, 02:21
The name doesn't roll off the tongue quite as nicely, but it is growing on me. Slightly.


Are you....complaining about me complaining about DX4?

CopyPasta Power, ACTIVATE!


https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_maq3pfAjdB1rsb37po4_r1_500.gif

It's coming out too soon. I'll never be able to join Eidos Montreal in time to work on it.

It must be the eagerly awaited iPad spin off.

You'll make it in time for DX5. Or you could just throw your belongings in a sack, cross the ocean and get an entry job in QA there. For science!


Yay, the good old days are returning! Speculation, whining and 0.01 of actual information! And let it brew! 3-5 years is about right.

DYB5vLzEHvI

-Neon-
28th Feb 2013, 04:34
In the original Deus Ex, weren't all the civilians seemingly normal humans? Very few NPCS had augs, be it mechanical or nano.
Is it possible that the world ended up outlawing unnecessary (read: reserved for government officials and those in need of prosthetics) augmentation?

DXeXodus
28th Feb 2013, 05:16
Well I certainly didn't expect this. It really is great news though and I wait with eager anticipation to see what, if anything, gets revealed in the months ahead.

Excited! :D

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 08:19
Well I certainly didn't expect this. It really is great news though and I wait with eager anticipation to see what, if anything, gets revealed in the months ahead.

Excited! :D



Same here. Very excited indeed. :cool:

68_pie
28th Feb 2013, 09:46
Very excited indeed. :cool:

Called it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 11:05
Hope the story continues further and further and eventually takes us to Russia.
I want to know more about the origins of the Omar. :cool:

DXeXodus
28th Feb 2013, 11:40
I'm very interested to see where they go with the story. Also, now with next-gen consoles around the corner I hope to see something great done with the art direction of the game.

Ashpolt
28th Feb 2013, 11:41
I knew the forum would be back to full health in no time.

No...within 6 months.


my classic posts

Request "that's classic HERESY!" be added to the copypasta thread, even though it's brand new and I may be the first person to say it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 13:40
Request "that's classic HERESY!" be added to the copypasta thread

Did HERESY use that term first? I don't believe so... I think credit must go to some other good chap. :D

Sotsiak91
28th Feb 2013, 14:27
I hope they keep the health regeneration because I hate backtracking for medkits.

And maybe improve the typhoon, it felt too slow and with a limited range.

Keep the cover system, but put more boxes and stuff so I have more places to hide.

I'm so excited about this, I wonder what kind of cool DLCs they'll make. :)

El_Bel
28th Feb 2013, 14:40
Why backtrack for medkits? You just find them and carry them with you all the time. If you are out of medkits and you are low on health, you don't have to be bored and backtrack for medkits. You just use the tools and options you have (this is deus ex after all, you have millions of them) to push forword, until you find a medical bay/bot. And any time you find a medkit in your way, it will make you feel infinate times more rewarded, after all you've been through, than sucking your finger for 15 seconds while your health regenerates.

Now maybe some people don't like that. So make regeneration an augmentation like in the original. An augmentation that uses up too much of the energy.

68_pie
28th Feb 2013, 15:15
I hate backtracking for medkits.

I'll take "Things no-one ever had to do" for $500 please Alex.


And maybe improve the typhoon, it felt too slow and with a limited range.

"The game is too difficult make, it easier for me to explode people!!!!111!. You can't go wrong with Cool ****TM


Keep the cover system, but put more boxes and stuff so I have more places to hide

"Make stealth easier!"

EDIT - I feel like I've been trolled...

El_Bel
28th Feb 2013, 15:29
Well, the i'm excited for DLC's gave that away... But good troll.

68_pie
28th Feb 2013, 15:39
Well, the i'm excited for DLC's gave that away... But good troll.

People like TML I guess...

El_Bel
28th Feb 2013, 16:00
Me too! I loved it. But it would be better if the whole game was as good as TML?

chabbles
28th Feb 2013, 17:37
Great news!

HR is my favorite game this gen easily, only next to MGS1 when it comes to best games of all time =]]
more of the same please, with deeper inter tangling side quests and upgrades.

vallux
28th Feb 2013, 18:02
They better have more Jensen - if only as some underground resistance leader or other.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 18:42
Adam is the star of the show... he's the brand, surely. :cool:

ROCK STARTIST
28th Feb 2013, 19:47
This is DX4 sounds cool, but I am more excited about the Deus Ex Film adaptation, unfortunately its not going to be directed by Ridley Scott, but this Scott Derickson director sounds like he knows what he's talking about (played the games, wants to make it a cyberpunk FILM vs a video game MOVIE).

sonicsidewinder
28th Feb 2013, 20:06
Do away with third person to create some neat new fps mechanics.

If anything, make Third Person an aug. (getting déj* vu here)

Include TrackIR functionality.

Shralla
28th Feb 2013, 21:38
but this Scott Derickson director sounds like he knows what he's talking about

I can tell by the way that he's never made anything except crappy horror movies.

ROCK STARTIST
28th Feb 2013, 21:58
Originally Posted by ROCK STARTIST View Post
but this Scott Derickson director sounds like he knows what he's talking about
I can tell by the way that he's never made anything except crappy horror movies.

True, it better not be a zombie movie, even though I thought the last stage of HR was unique approach of the Deus Ex.

Ashpolt
28th Feb 2013, 22:13
Adam is the star of the show... he's the brand, surely. :cool:

*augmented facepalm*

FreedomForever
28th Feb 2013, 22:16
Screw Jensen.

It pisses me off, he gets all the attn because he came out when video games were more mainstream.


JC Denton/Deus Ex are way better but sadly since they came out when video games weren't super mainstream, nobody cares.


Dump Jensen and focus on the real badass JC Denton.

Im sure the masses would love JC Denton/Deus Ex more if they knew about it.

lmprv
28th Feb 2013, 22:37
great!! now only, what, 2 1/2 years of waiting / mindless speculation / entitled opinion-thrusting / etc etc, haha.

knowing the title is very exciting. "human revolution" - the game and the title - was about human augmentation. what does "human defiance" suggest? could it be more about inequality and hierarchies, with some contemporary 1vs99% commentary, with you as a member of some resistance group (NSF, Juggernaut, etc?) ? or is the emphasis on human defiance - will it focus on the human vs artificial intelligence themes that were strongly foreshadowed in the missing link? i'm really really excited to learn more about janus, honestly (genius character on their part... I love trying to fill in all the gaps!). Edit: Also curious about the mood of the game now, too - defiance is a strong word, suggests the world will be a more gloomy, darker place in the sequel (which is also stated in Janus's vision in the Icarus Effect book now that I think about it) [OK really am speculating hard now LOL]

Spyhopping
28th Feb 2013, 22:38
JC has all the personality of a dried prune on the floor, but he was more quietly badass. AJ has the moves and the looks and an interesting story, but I'd still like to see a new protagonist.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 23:11
*augmented facepalm*

And your point is.... ? :D


JC has all the personality of a dried prune on the floor, but he was more quietly badass. AJ has the moves and the looks and an interesting story, but I'd still like to see a new protagonist.

Kind of agree a new protagonist would be cool... but Adam Jensen is now a Fictional Icon of the Bionic Age, imo. :cool:

Psychomorph
28th Feb 2013, 23:18
Aaaand the wait begins anew. I'm tired of this, wish there was a way to create games faster.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
28th Feb 2013, 23:53
Aaaand the wait begins anew. I'm tired of this, wish there was a way to create games faster.

I would like EM to finish Thief 4 first. :whistle:

FreedomForever
28th Feb 2013, 23:57
JC has all the personality of a dried prune on the floor, but he was more quietly badass. AJ has the moves and the looks and an interesting story, but I'd still like to see a new protagonist.

I love his badass one liners....His smartass comments....his sarcasm.


Something Jensen lacks, I think.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Mar 2013, 00:02
I love his badass one liners....His smartass comments....his sarcasm.

Something Jensen lacks, I think.

He definitely has some... just not enough. :D

Psychomorph
1st Mar 2013, 00:15
JC has all the personality of a dried prune on the floor, but he was more quietly badass. AJ has the moves and the looks and an interesting story, but I'd still like to see a new protagonist.

Would be cool to play in a time line several decades in the future as a new character and read information and see videos (archives) of Adam Jensen, perhaps dated in time after the events of Human Revolution, so that way you'd have more light shad at him and the information in question would actually influence the events of the present and the character that you are.
Adam is not like Garrett from Thief, who is a must have. I'd like to see Adam again, but wouldn't care much if not.



I would like EM to finish Thief 4 first. :whistle:

Thief 4 is a myth. :D

68_pie
1st Mar 2013, 01:14
AJ won't be the protagonist of the next game - he's already fully upgraded which would screw up the whole advancement element of the game. Plus he was really boring and I didn't care about the preformed backstory that was thrust upon us. We (the player) had zero reason to care about Megan but her disappearance was supposed to be a major driving force of the PC. Compare that to Malik, who by the time you come to have the opportunity of saving her, you've actually developed an emotional connection with her it makes a huge difference.

Plus when they have to declare which ending from DXHR is canon you'll have all the people coming out of the woodwork saying "Well that's not the ending I chose".

Assuming the game is a sequel to DXHR, whether it be set immediately in the aftermath or further into the future I wouldn't be surprised to see reference to Adam - could be by name or deed, direct or indirect.

HERESY
1st Mar 2013, 01:27
Did HERESY use that term first? I don't believe so... I think credit must go to some other good chap. :D


No...within 6 months.



Request "that's classic HERESY!" be added to the copypasta thread, even though it's brand new and I may be the first person to say it.

Classic lines, statements and utterings should be attributed to HERESY as he only provides quality product. So yes, I grant you permission to continue etching "The Name" in stone.

Shaikh
1st Mar 2013, 04:47
If this is DX4, then I hope Adam's voice actor will be changed, if he's int he game.

ZakKa89
1st Mar 2013, 06:54
If this is DX4, then I hope Adam's voice actor will be changed, if he's int he game.

Waiit what why

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Mar 2013, 07:50
Classic lines, statements and utterings should be attributed to HERESY as he only provides quality product. So yes, I grant you permission to continue etching "The Name" in stone.

Fair enough. :D

DXeXodus
1st Mar 2013, 08:27
If this is DX4, then I hope Adam's voice actor will be changed, if he's int he game.

That is odd. I mean, while I respect your opinion, I personally felt that Elias Toufexis was a superb voice actor in DX:HR and did an outstanding job voicing Jensen. I'm hoping that they manage to acquire his talents again should Jensen make a return in this possible new DX game.

Jerion
1st Mar 2013, 08:28
Yeah. Toufexis is Jensen. I can't see him in anything without first associating his voice with AJ.

avenging_teabag
1st Mar 2013, 09:23
YAY EXCITING NEWS! Let's hope Human Defiance is indeed what everyone thinks it is.

Now for early wishes:

1. Continue with Jensen, and I think they will. Like it or not, he's now the face of the franchise, the prospective movie is about him, and they would be idiots to throw him away after just one game.
2. First or third person does not matter to me. I was okay with HR POV switch mechanics, and I would be okay with first-person only. Hell, I would be okay with third--person only, just to watch a massive butthurt it will cause here.
3. Get rid of the romance. Not because I have anything against the romantic plots in general, but really, the writers are not good enough to execute them correctly.
4. The less cutscenes, the better.
5. Don't fudge up the endings.
6. Multiplayer might be fine. Coop story missions or PvP, depending on the plot particulars. I don't get the multiplayer hate, I think it might be very good for the game, as long as it's not the main focus.

El_Bel
1st Mar 2013, 10:11
6. Multiplayer might be fine. Coop story missions or PvP, depending on the plot particulars. I don't get the multiplayer hate, I think it might be very good for the game, as long as it's not the main focus.

Eats up resources that could be spent making the single player better.

avenging_teabag
1st Mar 2013, 10:28
Eats up resources that could be spent making the single player better.It doesn't work like that. For most titles (that I know of) SP ad MP are made by separate teams on separate budgets, if you scrap one it wouldn't mean the money going to the other. Most likely, they would go to another project entirely.

EricaLeeV
1st Mar 2013, 15:36
JC has all the personality of a dried prune on the floor, but he was more quietly badass. AJ has the moves and the looks and an interesting story, but I'd still like to see a new protagonist.

...Prunes are good sometimes.

Jensen has a nice sarcastic air about him. Love JC for his sassyness AND sarcasm. That's right, sassyness.



As I said before, the Human part of this title has me worried it's going to be a continuation of Jensen's story and while I could stand it I'd prefer it be about someone new. Be careful with that character design...I don't know if coincidental trenchcoat and sunglasses are going to fly again for a third protagonist.

ZakKa89
1st Mar 2013, 16:13
It doesn't work like that. For most titles (that I know of) SP ad MP are made by separate teams on separate budgets, if you scrap one it wouldn't mean the money going to the other. Most likely, they would go to another project entirely.

You say it yourself: Seperate budget. Money that's sent and invested on making the multiplayer could be used to make the sp even better. I don't mind MP at all but I don't need it.

Sotsiak91
1st Mar 2013, 17:42
Btw could this be just a new DLC or a movie or a book or something like that instead of a new game?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
1st Mar 2013, 18:07
Btw could this be just a new DLC or a movie or a book or something like that instead of a new game?

It could indeed, yes.

Jerion
1st Mar 2013, 18:24
Another novel, I like. A movie? We shall see. A game? More likely.

ZakKa89
1st Mar 2013, 18:59
http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/03/01/what-we-want-to-see-from-a-new-deus-ex/

:)

sonicsidewinder
1st Mar 2013, 19:29
I hope there's a tentacle aug.

JCpies
1st Mar 2013, 19:56
If there's one thin Human Revolution let me down on, it was character evolution and customisation.

Square Enix know they have a winner on their hands if they implement the tentacle aug.

Like how boosting the popularity of Wolverine in Japan would come down to replacing his claws with tentacles.

Jerion
1st Mar 2013, 20:33
If there's one thin Human Revolution let me down on, it was character evolution and customisation.

Square Enix know they have a winner on their hands if they implement the tentacle aug.

Like how boosting the popularity of Wolverine in Japan would come down to replacing his claws with tentacles.

Let. It. Die.

ZakKa89
1st Mar 2013, 21:16
I hope there's a tentacle aug.

I concur. And rollerblade augs.

Snake04
1st Mar 2013, 23:17
Seriously roller blade aug.......No just no.

FrankCSIS
1st Mar 2013, 23:28
I'd be content with a Fast Walk aug. Walking in games is always awkwardly slow, and running in city hubs just feels wrong.

Geralt z Rivii
2nd Mar 2013, 00:00
Btw could this be just a new DLC or a movie or a book or something like that instead of a new game?
Most likely: http://whois.domaintools.com/deusexhumandefiancefilm.com

CyberP
2nd Mar 2013, 04:58
It's probably the movie, but there will most likely be a Deus Ex 4....

I played Human Revolution again the other week, it is a very good game, best of 2011 alongside the console game Dark Souls. I want to see/play more of Eidos Montreal's take on Deus Ex, but with refinement. The studio now have the experience, and hopefully the passion still.

Instead of pointing out it's flaws compared to the original (Which have already been pointed out, and rightfully so), i'll post what I thought about it as a standalone game as I played it the other week.

Hacking- This is a tough one, the mini-game is incredibly good, and made even more fun by the rewards, but that is the problem, conflicting- don't reward cash and XP for successful hacks, as it encourages the player to hack everything in sight. Only reward info (emails, scouting with cameras), offensive (Turret control) and exploration (open some locked doors). Only stop worms and nuke viruses should be rewarded directly from the mini game itself.
Playstyles should be solely down to the player, no direct gameplay encouragement.

Whch leads to...

XP- The best way I have seen XP implemented in any game was the original Deus Ex...I know I said I wouldn't compare, but it's called for as it is a perfect example of masterful design in my opinion: XP rewards for Primary & secondary objectives only, as well as minor exploration/accomplishment/character interaction bonuses. This does influence your playstyle, but only for exploration. In all three Deus Ex's you pretty much HAVE to explore (And if one does not then why even play the game?), so this is the way forward. It also completely eliminates "grinding", which is the bane of any good RPG.

Inventory- The inventory was brilliant, worked great on consoles too*, the inventory systems had detailed info on the items if you examined them. Just a few minor flaws- The stacking of items. Machine pistol and Combat Rifle ammo only stacked to 50, the exact same value as the revolver. The stacking values for ammo as a whole were not balanced very well at all.

*whoever says consoles are responsible for dumb gameplay are uniformed.

Lifts/elevators- There are many, many long lifts in HR. I understand why it was done- for uninterrupted conversations/plot points. It wouldn't look right Jensen having having a gunfight whilst having a conversation. Still, the amount of these needs to be cut down. There are tons of ways to tell the story in a Deus Ex style game, in the original most of it was optional, even the main plot. Speaking of main plot- in Deus Ex every main character had their forced dialogue to progress, but all of them had tons of optional dialogue if the player decided to keep talking to them. A good compromise is less lift scenes and instead tell the story through other means such as this.

Level Design- More missions to break up the hub visits, less copy & paste, more freedom. It appears the "four pillars" of gameplay was essential in the development of Human Revolution's level design, a respectable approach, but it comes off forced. There needs to be more gameplay systems that interact- Breaking doors, multitools/lockpicks, hacking to open doors, Door Keys and so on. You could break some doors in Human Revolution, but how about an HUD aug that displays door info (Breakable True/False, health bar, Number of Lockpicks needed or whether it is an electronic lock etc). Multiple solutions to one problem- Don't have the hacking skill to open the door? Use a lockpick if you have one. No lockpicks? Blow the door. No explosives? Find the key. No key? Tough luck. Hacking in Human Revolution is not only dominant because of rewards, but SO many places required high hacking aug. Even if you had the door code there is no point inputting it because of hacking rewards. Whilst all these places required hacking, very few needed EMP shield, poison gas protection, door codes, social aug CASIE and so on. With there being a lack of options compared to Deus Ex it is rather grating, especially since all the missions are close quarters except the hubs. Even the huge open hubs are a damn hack-fest.

NPCs- Too much work went into the visuals of this game, not enough on the story and gameplay. It seems pointless typing this out, do devs ever listen to fans?
Meh.

- "NOT with the gat, my man". Way too many NPCs refused to speak with you unless your weapon was holstered. This is good in most cases, but not when you are off doing a prostitutes "dirty work", return to speak with her and she screams in a panic about your gun being drawn, acting as if she does not know who you are.

- There were not enough interesting NPCs. Again, a comparison to DX1. More interesting and varied NPCs make exploring a hub and even missions much more interesting, are essential even, if you have hubs in a game. For missions: Storming Picus for example, how about a man who was in the toilets when the alarm went off, slipped and banged his head, woke up and everybody was gone? A maintenance man stuck in the air vents? A naughty worker who snuck a quick nap in the janitors closet? An infiltrator with a separate agenda?
Anything... There is one good NPC event in a mission I can think of in Human Revolution- The man stuck in the TYM maintenance room with the gas leak who begs you for help. Helping him is optional at least, discovering him was not. Too linear missions.

-Rewards- Player can have all augs in one playthrough, player has more credits than he ever needs. There needed to be more varied resources/rewards as in Deus Ex 1, that way you can reward a player with a multitool instead of credits and a ton of XP once again. for example. At least you could not carry all weapons and upgrade them all though, that was good.

-Weapons: there is an Iron Sights alignment offset for the magnum. All weapons with laser sight attached gain an iron sights offset too. Crosshair should be invisible when in cover....I know the cover system will return, please refine it at least. It makes stealth and combat too easy and made many augmentations near useless- Radar, see through walls, mark & track, other stealth enhancing augs. If the game was strictly in first person perspective except conversations and cutscenes there would have been many benefits.

Tbh, I don't need to point anything out. Deus Ex 1 done nearly everything perfectly, if one can look past ugly graphics and poor combat AI it becomes clear over time.

Whether things get better or not Deus Ex 4 is a day 1 buy for me as Human Revolution was a fantastic game, albeit with many, many flaws.
Good luck to the team.
It's great that Eidos Montreal studios are kept intentionally smaller for tight-knit team work. Please do not expand, The left hand needs to talk to the right, and everyone else in-between.

-A nagging fan



EDIT: To ever said to scrap Mary De Marle, to sweep her away into the junk pile- NO. I am going to defend her, even though I am not particularly a fan of DX:HR's story.

-She now has experience with writing for a game like Deus Ex.
-She read the Deus Ex "Bible".
-Some of DX:HRs content was cut that it desperately needed.
-Whilst the writing was not as good as DX1's it did not assume you were a retard.
-She said in the end, gameplay is more important than story in a game. I 110% agree. That doesn't mean she won't give it the best she has got for DX4.

Not particularly a good defense, but she is great in comparison to many other vid game writers, and done her homework. I expect much better from her and her team, but I was still very impressed.


Eats up resources that could be spent making the single player better.

Agreed.


That is odd. I mean, while I respect your opinion, I personally felt that Elias Toufexis was a superb voice actor in DX:HR and did an outstanding job voicing Jensen. I'm hoping that they manage to acquire his talents again should Jensen make a return in this possible new DX game.

Agreed.


I would like EM to finish Thief 4 first. :whistle:

Screw Thief :rasp:

Deus Ex is far better. Or an Ultima Underworld 3 would be cool, although I don't think Eidos own the rights...

Thief is only appreciated by me because Warren Spector was frustrated with it and it inspired him to make a much better game, and because it's engine was used for System Shock 2. I don't really understand the appeal with Thief tbh, other than the superior stealth and oppressive atmosphere.

As for Warren S and Thief: http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/01/27/spector-created-deus-ex-out-of-thief-frustrations/

“One of my goals for Deus Ex was – and I used to think about it this way – ‘I want to shame developers; I want to shame my peers and force them to make different kinds of games’”.

This is ironic & iconic. Iconic because he did shame some developers. Ironic because the games industry has gone mostly downhill since Deus Ex. Well, since 2006 or so probably.

HERESY
2nd Mar 2013, 06:27
He should be ashamed of Epic Mickey. He should be ashamed and pondering the very fabric of his existence with Epic Mickey 2.

El_Bel
2nd Mar 2013, 06:29
*whoever says consoles are responsible for dumb gameplay are uniformed.

Lifts/elevators- There are many, many long lifts in HR. I understand why it was done- for uninterrupted conversations/plot points. It wouldn't look right Jensen having having a gunfight whilst having a conversation. Still, the amount of these needs to be cut down. There are tons of ways to tell the story in a Deus Ex style game, in the original most of it was optional, even the main plot. Speaking of main plot- in Deus Ex every main character had their forced dialogue to progress, but all of them had tons of optional dialogue if the player decided to keep talking to them. A good compromise is less lift scenes and instead tell the story through other means such as this.

NPCs- Too much work went into the visuals of this game, not enough on the story and gameplay. It seems pointless typing this out, do devs ever listen to fans?
Meh.

Oh, to ever said to fire Mary De Marle. NO. I am going to defend her, even though I am not particularly a fan of DX:HR's story.

-She now has experience with writing for a game like Deus Ex.
-She read the Deus Ex "Bible".
-Some of DX:HRs content was cut that it desperately needed.
-Whilst the writing was not as good as DX1's it did not assume you were a retard.
-She said in the end, gameplay is more important than story in a game. I 110% agree. That doesn't mean she won't give it the best she has got for DX4.

Not particularly a good defense, but she is great in comparison to many other vid game writers, and done her homework. I expect much better from her and her team, but I was still very impressed.

I'll keep this short.

Consoles are responsible for dumbing down the gameplay. The elimination of strafing, cover based shooting and regenerative health are a direct effect from designing a game that has to be played without the speed of the keyboard/mouse combo.

Lifts are put in the game to hide the loading of new areas, not to have uninterrupted conversations/plot points.

No they don't listen. At all. Also i would like to say that i liked that one npc in HR, Michael Zelazny, the warrior priest. Too bad we only see him for like 2 minutes.

As for De Marle let's see.

Wrote a story that made no sense.
The story was more focused on finding your ex-gf than uncovering conspirecies.
Read the DX bible, but ignored it.
Augmented zombies in Panachea.
Seriously, agumented zombies? Is that the best climax she could think off? Well, i guess if you spend 9/10 of the game hunting down your ex, it could be hard to think a good way to rise the stakes once you find her.

James Swallow did an infinate better job with the DX book. This guy got Deus Ex.

It is of no surprise of course. She was the one to write the ****iest Myst stories after all. I wonder how she got to work in the industry.

CyberP
2nd Mar 2013, 07:04
He should be ashamed of Epic Mickey. He should be ashamed and pondering the very fabric of his existence with Epic Mickey 2.

Warren Spector is a legend. If he has a soft spot for mickey mouse and want to make games about him then he can go ahead. He already has given 20+ years of awesome service to the industry.

....Although from what I hear Epic Mickey is a bad game regardless, which is a shame. He should have evolved the design of the Disney games from the early 90's. They were HARD! I would have totally played those style games with RPG elements and options for Stealth or Lethal :D

CyberP
2nd Mar 2013, 07:09
Consoles are responsible for dumbing down the gameplay. The elimination of strafing, cover based shooting and regenerative health are a direct effect from designing a game that has to be played without the speed of the keyboard/mouse combo.

Uninformed nonsense. You realise that pretty much every console shooter before 2006 had strafing, no regen health, no cover shooting etc? with one or two exceptions. The gameplay mechanics of a console game is determined by the designers, not hardware restrictions. Deus Ex was on the PS2 for goodness sake. The only reason some gameplay mechanics were dumbed down was because that was what the designers decided. Human Revolution, Morrowind, Fallout: New Vegas, Deus Ex, Arx Fatalis, Half-Life and many others all have been on consoles.

What does PC shooters do better than consoles when it comes to gameplay mechanics? Nothing. Every mechanic done on PC has been done on consoles, even *****ty quicksave.

According to you the slightly lesser precision of the right analog stick is responsible for a ton of crappy gameplay mechanics. I'll tell you who is responsible- mostly PC-centric devs moving to console development and ******* with the balance of things.
EPiC Games, Bungie, Gearbox & Irrational Games... It was these guys and more who came along and popularized all the ****ty mechanics and easy gameplay. Before this current gen consoles were doing perfectly fine with plenty of fantastic games developed, shooters or otherwise. Most of the challenging games I have ever played were console games, not PC. If you did not restrict yourself to PC only you would understand.
As for keyboard- see all those keys? They can be emulated on a console pad- On hold, on press, double tap...there are three times the amount of functions that can be assigned to a console pad minimum, but designers just decide to never use them. Human Revolution can be used as an example- Press Y= Holster weapon. Hold Y=Toolbar/quick inventory. Or Dishonored- Hold Y then press left or right for lean left or right.

As for "Speed of Keyboard"- No, why do you think super-fast action games are more common on consoles, games such as God Of War, Devil May Cry, Onimusha, Ninja Gaiden. It's because you have all the control ready at your finger tips. Keyboard is less precise, most notably WASD vs Left analog stick. Mouse is certainly more precise though, although not all that much. Every console shooter I play I disable aim assist. If there is no option I get pissed.
Sure you get some talented people that can play those type of action games effectively with M+K, but it's a rare occurrence.


Lifts are put in the game to hide the loading of new areas, not to have uninterrupted conversations/plot points.

Most likely both. Allthough I doubt the small areas split up by lift scenes of HR needed really long loading times. 2mins in the Picus Funicular for example... It was most likely done primarily for the plot.



Wrote a story that made no sense.
The story was more focused on finding your ex-gf than uncovering conspirecies.
Read the DX bible, but ignored it.
Augmented zombies in Panachea.
Seriously, agumented zombies? Is that the best climax she could think off? Well, i guess if you spend 9/10 of the game hunting down your ex, it could be hard to think a good way to rise the stakes once you find her.

James Swallow did an infinate better job with the DX book. This guy got Deus Ex.

It is of no surprise of course. She was the one to write the ****iest Myst stories after all. I wonder how she got to work in the industry.

Bit harsh...

"Augmented zombies" was a good message. It ****ed with the gameplay (although could have easily been done better even with augmented zombies) and could have been better, but don't write off the writing as a whole.

The story was not all about finding Megan. It was about corporate wars (which comes under conspiracies in the case of HR), technology in the future and how it will affect our way of life, a broken man with nothing to lose...Sure, like I said, it's no Deus Ex 1, but it was still above average.

Don't underestimate the use of having a love interest as motivation to travel around the world.

The endings sucked, but it could have just been a forced happy ending, you find megan and fly off into the sunset type of ending. DX:HR has much educational & entertainment value, even if it was executed poorly. The writing overall was above average.

And what did you not understand about the story?

JCpies
2nd Mar 2013, 08:10
He should be ashamed of Epic Mickey. He should be ashamed and pondering the very fabric of his existence with Epic Mickey 2.

That was totes relevant to this conversation brah

keep it up

ZakKa89
2nd Mar 2013, 09:08
Seriously roller blade aug.......No just no.

Dude why not


I knew the forum would be back to full health in no time.

I'll never stop posting


Oh and for me, Defiance is much easier to say than Revolution. I sometimes have trouble with the english R. Worlrlrrlrrlrld

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Mar 2013, 09:32
Screw Thief :rasp:

Deus Ex is far better..

Both games are my faves of all time; so there is no 'better' for me; they are equally good. :p

Shaikh
2nd Mar 2013, 13:25
Deus Ex: Human Defiance Is Not A Game, It’s The New Movie


Believe me when I say this but I do feel your pain while reading the title of this news article. Unfortunately everyone, the new Deus Ex trademark that was spotted a few days ago is not about a new game, but about the new movie that will be based on this game. Yeap, Deus Ex: Human Defiance is – most probably – the name of that film according to the following whois information.

Spotted by NeoGAF (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516444&page=7) member ’EatChildren’, this information (http://whois.domaintools.com/deusexhumandefiancefilm.com) reveals the proper domain of Deus Ex: Human Defiance. According to the whois information, Human Defianec is a film based on Deus Ex. Our guess is that this is the movie everyone has been talking about lately. Not only that, but as we can see the domain was registered the same day we got word that Square Enix trademarked Deus Ex: Human Defiance, so that can’t be a mere coincidence. In other news, no new game, no incoming game-related announcement.


http://www.dsogaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Whois-DeusExHumanDefiance.jpg (http://www.dsogaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Whois-DeusExHumanDefiance.jpg)

That’s a really disappointing turn of events as Human Revolution was a stunning video game. And even though it met critical success and won a lot of awards, Square Enix seems to be holding back on it. Hell, the company has not revealed yet whether we’ll get a sequel or not.

So, will Human Revolution be a one-hit success or will Square Enix take advantage of it? That remains to be seen.


Source (http://www.dsogaming.com/news/deus-ex-human-defiance-is-not-a-game-its-the-new-movie)

DXeXodus
2nd Mar 2013, 15:17
Oh, well that's a bit of a disappointment for me. But, I'm looking forward to the movie as well.

ZakKa89
2nd Mar 2013, 15:26
Hypetrain derailed

http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/65619iAEBA7D9DA48E847B/image-size/original?v=mpbl-1&px=-1

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Mar 2013, 16:49
Hehe. Oh well... the excitement was fun while it lasted.
Thread title updated to help spread the word.

Snake04
2nd Mar 2013, 18:44
I'm depressed now leave me to cry in peace :(

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Mar 2013, 20:24
Life is too short to EVER let yourself feel depressed. :flowers:

Snake04
2nd Mar 2013, 21:17
Life is too short to EVER let yourself feel depressed. :flowers:

True.... :)

Zerim
3rd Mar 2013, 09:13
I'm coming back to this forum after like 6 months just to defend Mary DeMarle.

I think she's one of the best writers in the industry. The only problem I can find with DXHR is, as someone else already pointed out; that we're supposed to care about Megan because Jensen does, but we as the player really aren't given enough of a reason to care.

Other than that, I think everything was written really well. The augmented zombie was a GREAT idea because it symbolized what can go wrong with augmentation technology.

The entirety of DXHR was about questioning transhumanism and cybernetics; giving the player all aspects of the issue and letting them decide. "Augmented zombies" is a concept that very well could be a possibility: I mean if you got brain implants and they got screwed up by some corporate scheme or a flaw in their design, these things very well could happen; and DXHR did a pretty exciting presentation of it all.

As a huge fan of the original, I still have to say DXHR is my favorite game of all time. 2nd favorite is Deus Ex. I know this is pretty much blasphemy to say in these parts, but it is how I feel.

DXHR had amazing design choices, music, story, characters and so on. Everything that would make a nice movie perhaps, but it's gameplay is not that great. Very casual, too easy even on the highest difficulty, badly balanced, consolized.

DX had the best gameplay of all time; it is to me the definition of what a "video game" should be; or rather "immersive sim" as we call it. Sure it had it's shortcomings but the gameplay is just stellar.

What I would like to see is a perfect combination of these two. The amazing and huge gameplay of DX, combined with the style and narrative aspects of HR; I believe would make the ULTIMATE game.

FrankCSIS
3rd Mar 2013, 15:06
I'm coming back to this forum after like 6 months just to defend Mary DeMarle.

And Hell followed with him!

DX's story in and by itself wasn't exactly extraordinary. I'd say it's quite amazing they managed to make something so interesting and engaging by merging a hundred conspiracy theories into one story line.

The real feat though, and the reason it surpasses HR, was the way it was told, or rather, played. It has the single most intelligent narrative technique ever designed for a game. Apart from the bare minimum, the bulk of the story unraveled only as much as you would find out, as the player, through your actions, even mundane. Narrative-based choices were minimal at best, and yet it is the most interactive game/story ever made. Herein lies its genius.

For everything it did well, DXHR did not understand the "playing the story" concept. And so DeMarle's story fell flat, because it was just thrown at us, like every other game in the universe. (And what was thrown was not enough to counter the bland narrative). Games come from books, not movies. And books are still the most interactive medium out there. Once developers wrap their heads around those two ideas, the way the gang did with DX, game storytelling will make a quantum leap, again, hopefully forever, this time.

Edit, because I can.


Don't underestimate the use of having a love interest as motivation to travel around the world.

Grim Fandango did this so very well that everyone else attempting it looks like a fool. The game has you chasing a woman for 3/4 of its narrative, and yet the main protagonist continually denies it, to a point where you barely realise that's what you are doing. Mercedes appeared to be a MacGuffin, even for Manny, up until the very end. They played on this idea again and again with every chance they got, generating one of the most classic lines written for a game, when Manny is directly challenged about it; "Love? Love is for the living, Sal". Coupled with a truly great friendship story, and an amazing bitter-sweet ending, it makes every other game script in the universe look like a high school play. And that, kids, is how you pull off a love interest story :p

xaduha2
3rd Mar 2013, 16:08
@Zerim
Oh come on, they can do better than that, I'm sure.

DX was full of surprises, big and small. But believe me - augmented zombies isn't a kind of surprise that makes me chuckle and say 'well played, EM'.

The whole Panchea area was sort of salvaged, wasn't it? Unlike Montreal.
Enormous megastructure, the infamous 'Hole in the ocean' and that's the only thing that comes to mind?!
Great writing? Nope, just loose ends tied up.

Jerion
3rd Mar 2013, 16:39
As long as we're going in a different direction from the thread title, I have to say that Missing Link was a strong example of writing that was surprisingly vibrant. It involved Adam, but had very little to do with his tale (it even lampshaded his pursuit of Megan rather nicely at one point). Instead, much like the storytelling that involved JC, Adam had agency and was integral to progression, but his investment in the plot occurred at the same rate as the player's, rather than already existing before the start of the game. If that makes any sense.

FrankCSIS
3rd Mar 2013, 16:53
Makes a ton of sense. It helps recenter the character and the player as the protagonist, instead of a mere vessel to a predefined and intangible story. It's one of the many elements of interactivity.

WildcatPhoenix
3rd Mar 2013, 18:45
A few thoughts:

1. DXHR actually works better for me as a movie than as an FPS/RPG hybrid videogame. Almost every element which bothered me in the game (third person camera, stupid cutscenes, the "find out what happened to your girlfriend" plotline, etc) would work more effectively as a film. We've all spilled gallons of digital ink over the "games are not movies" debate, but if Eidos is bound and determined to make this story more cinematic, then a feature film is the correct medium for that story.

2. Terrible title, but it may change before the film is released.

3. Nothing on the writer/director's resume (or the producers', for that matter) gives me any confidence this will turn out to be anything more than the usual garbage most videogame adaptations devolve into these days. The one comment that gives me hope is the "let's not make a good videogame movie, let's make a good cyberpunk movie."

That's the correct attitude to take. Make a film which stands on its own merit, a film which deserves its own place in the history of cinema, not just some half-***ed translation of the same narrative beats and character names we've already seen in the game.

I'm far from optimistic (of course, I'm biased because I'm much, much more attached to the original story and characters than anything from DXHR), but who knows? Maybe if we go in with low expectations we might wind up being pleasantly surprised?

Jensen14
4th Mar 2013, 08:40
deus ex human defiance PROBABLY porting WII-U!

bad news for me!!

Shralla
4th Mar 2013, 09:32
What?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
4th Mar 2013, 14:36
True.... :)

Yes, but only for this current time.
For extended life, Omar can help with this. :cool:

3rdmillhouse
4th Mar 2013, 18:23
The hell with this movie, it will most surely suck like all game adaptations do. I'm more interested in a sequel to Human Revolution and I'm hoping that they will use a top-tier engine this time around.

Jerion
4th Mar 2013, 18:43
The hell with this movie, it will most surely suck like all game adaptations do. I'm more interested in a sequel to Human Revolution and I'm hoping that they will use a top-tier engine this time around.

I hope they use the Luminous engine next time around. That way they can say with a straight face that they went with the Luminous Path.

DXeXodus
5th Mar 2013, 05:52
I hope they use the Luminous engine next time around. That way they can say with a straight face that they went with the Luminous Path.

Ba-dum-tish!

Nice :D

singularity
5th Mar 2013, 11:04
It was mentioned on page 5, but I'll post a little linky here:
http://www.ign.com/videos/2013/03/04/ign-daily-fix-030413

The short of it is this: evidence points to a "modified" version of DXHR coming to the Wii U soon.
Depending on the level of modification, I wouldn't be surprised if our "Human Defiance" is actually a Wii U port.

Look at it from a marketing standpoint. Why would the movie have a subtitle? It already has a name that most of the audience will have difficulty pronouncing, isn't a sequel, and the last thing it wants is for people to think it is a sequel to a film they didn't see previously (because then they definitely won't see this one). My money is on the film having no subtitle at all.

Here's the real question -- let's humor ourselves and say that Human Defiance is the "next gen" port for DXHR. Will it also come out for PS4/ NextBox? PC? If so, what has been "modified"?

Could we be looking at something like the The Witcher: Enhanced Edition (please, God... let it be)?
Or something more like the Resident Evil 4 port on the Wii?

Jake Denton
5th Mar 2013, 12:52
I hope they keep the health regeneration because I hate backtracking for medkits.

And maybe improve the typhoon, it felt too slow and with a limited range.

Keep the cover system, but put more boxes and stuff so I have more places to hide.

I'm so excited about this, I wonder what kind of cool DLCs they'll make. :)

No, no no, and no. Backtrack for medkits? You've never played the original Deus Ex. Improve the typhoon? It's already overpowered as is. More boxes? Are you kidding me bro? As if there isn't enough cover in the game :mad2:

Geralt z Rivii
5th Mar 2013, 20:46
Deus Ex: The Fall domain registrations pop up online

Deus Ex domain registrations have popped up for something called Deus Ex: The Fall. Variants for the UK, France, Italy, Germany and your standard .com and .net are listed. As usual, the lot was found by Superannuation. Over the weekend, it was confirmed that the Deus Ex: Human Defiance trademark which popped up last week were for the movie based on the franchise and not a new game in the series after a domain registration filed by CBS Films was discovered. Is it a new game in the series? We’re not even going to try and guess what it is for at this point, but we’ll still send a mail.
http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/05/deus-ex-the-fall-domain-registrations-pop-up-online/

68_pie
5th Mar 2013, 23:35
It's a marginally better name than Human Defiance.

So it's going to be about the collapse of society between HR and DX then?

CyberP
5th Mar 2013, 23:43
The hell with this movie, it will most surely suck like all game adaptations do. I'm more interested in a sequel to Human Revolution and I'm hoping that they will use a top-tier engine this time around.

No new engine.

The re-written Crystal engine used for Human Revolution was perfectly fine.
Now they have the assets and are comfortable with it they may be able to make the perfect game. Starting anew on a different engine would hinder any attempt to make an outstanding Deus Ex game, especially considering how insane game budgets are these days.

No gold filter & more varied colors would be nice though. The gold filter worked great in some areas, but it should have been used sparingly in my opinion.


No, no no, and no. Backtrack for medkits? You've never played the original Deus Ex. Improve the typhoon? It's already overpowered as is. More boxes? Are you kidding me bro? As if there isn't enough cover in the game :mad2:

Agreed, smash face into the wall worthy. Self restraint is needed though, you'll give yourself brain damage :nut:

-Neon-
5th Mar 2013, 23:53
It's a marginally better name than Human Defiance.

So it's going to be about the collapse of society between HR and DX then?

Sounds like it would indeed take place between HR and DX.
Personally, I think "The Fall" would refer to:
A. the fall (or rather, the suppression) of the Illuminati due to MJ12
B. the fall of mechanical/widespread augmentation, see as how very few civilians had augs in DX1.

68_pie
6th Mar 2013, 00:54
Sounds like it would indeed take place between HR and DX.
Personally, I think "The Fall" would refer to:
A. the fall (or rather, the suppression) of the Illuminati due to MJ12
B. the fall of mechanical/widespread augmentation, see as how very few civilians had augs in DX1.

I was thinking more how we go from electronic locks to mechanical locks :p

Shralla
6th Mar 2013, 02:10
No new engine.

The re-written Crystal engine used for Human Revolution was perfectly fine.

Pfffffaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You think that piece of crap is "perfectly fine" for a game that will be an exclusively next-gen title? Or even a game that's expected to compete in the mainstream PC market these days? There was nothing GOOD about that engine, really. It's "okay" in pretty much all aspects.

I would be completely offended and not buy the game on principle if it comes out four years after HR and uses the same engine. That's seriously laughable.

lmprv
6th Mar 2013, 03:35
Sounds like it would indeed take place between HR and DX.
Personally, I think "The Fall" would refer to:
A. the fall (or rather, the suppression) of the Illuminati due to MJ12
B. the fall of mechanical/widespread augmentation, see as how very few civilians had augs in DX1.

Probably also refers to the Fall of Icarus, too. Maybe referencing Adam at the immediate end of HR, and what happens to him next?

I agree with you, I reckon it's meant to mean all of the above :)

Title kind of makes sense for next DX game, too. Two things we know. One, it will almost certainly be related to the Missing Link (Janus, Adam and other stuff), so it will take place soon after HR. Two, in the Icarus Effect book, Janus gives his "model of potentials", which outlines the world during the biochip activation, and after - it's very bleak. So the next game broadly being about collapse / disintegration kind of makes sense.

I'd be most interested in what kind of "big themes" it would be about though. DXHR had the pros and cons of human augmentations, and also covered consumerism and technology, how individuals are trapped in hierarchies, etc. What could The Fall be about? They could do something really subversive if the game is broadly about the ascent of power of bad people, and the failure of technology... people amusing themselves with smartphones while the world burns, etc... hmmm.... :D

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 09:15
Pfffffaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
.
Laugh it up Denton. Starting anew will hinder development time & eat up resources.
I couldn't give a **** If Deus Ex 4 was on UED1 to be honest. What matters is that it's good. You just want justification for spending a ridiculous amount of money on your high end PC.

There was nothing wrong with HR's engine. The notable flaws were in the games design.

Fallout 3 was released in 2008. Fallout: New Vegas was released in 2011 with the same engine but superior design by far. Fallout 3 I doubt will ever be played by me again. New Vegas is timeless.

vallux
6th Mar 2013, 09:22
The only gripe I had with Human Revolution was that it looked pretty dated. The engine is the same used in Tomb Raider Legend I think. That game came out in 2006. There is only so much you can do with the art style and tweaking.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 09:28
I'll tell you what looks dated- Deus Ex. Is it a timeless classic? Sure is. Human Revolution looked beautiful. But I couldn't touch that beauty without feeling disappointed.
Girls don't usually look so good without their makeup, what matters then is personality.

vallux
6th Mar 2013, 09:35
Don't get me wrong, I wanted to make that point too. I absolutely loved Human Revolution, but darn.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 09:42
Don't get me wrong, I wanted to make that point too. I absolutely loved Human Revolution, but darn.
But darn it was beautiful. The best thing about the game was it's graphics imo. Everything else was lacking- Gameplay, Level Design, Story....

If every game made till I die had this current gens graphics I'd be perfectly fine with that. I'm more interested in everything else. The stuff that made me a gamer when there were no super sharp graphics. The stuff that gets ignored most of the time.

Shralla
6th Mar 2013, 10:09
Starting anew will hinder development time & eat up resources.

Only if they were planning on recycling resources from HR, which is a terrible idea. The only way "starting anew" would hinder development time is if we're assuming they began development of the sequel on the Crystal engine in the first place, and are now/have at some point recently scrapped development and started on a new engine. These are professional game designers we're talking about, not hobbyists.

68_pie
6th Mar 2013, 10:40
But darn it was beautiful. The best thing about the game was it's graphics imo. Everything else was lacking- Gameplay, Level Design, Story....

I think you are confusing graphics with art direction.

Why would you want to recycle that awful CD engine rather than use UE4 or CryEngine 3 or even another proprietary engine that Square Enix might have?

And bringing up GameBryo is hardly a good example. It was ****ty when it was used in Oblivion and it was ****ty in Failout 3 and NV. I'm not saying you can't make a good game in bad engine, but Obsidian had to struggle all the way when using it to developing NV. There was so much stuff that they tried to implement but had to cut because of the engine.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 12:59
I think you are confusing graphics with art direction.

Nope. The graphics were more than satisfactory. It may not have been the latest and greatest, but I really don't care. It was better looking than Deus Ex, and that is good enough for me.

As for the art direction; 50-50 like/dislike. Gold filter throughout the whole game, more futuristic style (unrealistic too for 2027) in some areas than Deus Ex 1 and how many color pallets used? But everything else was mostly great.


And bringing up GameBryo is hardly a good example. It was ****ty when it was used in Oblivion and it was ****ty in Failout 3 and NV. I'm not saying you can't make a good game in bad engine
It was a good example. They used FO3 assets and engine and expanded, making a far better game. Focusing on everything other than graphics.
I really don't care whether GameBryo is considered "****ty". I know full well Crystal is considered ****ty, but by my standards its more than enough.
It handled everything it needed to for a Deus Ex style game, therefore it is perfectly fine.


, but Obsidian had to struggle all the way when using it to developing NV. There was so much stuff that they tried to implement but had to cut because of the engine.

Such as what? Regardless, it hardly makes a difference, New Vegas is fantastic. I really don't care if it took ages to load some areas or everything about it is dated by 2011's standards. It supported a good game because the designers had their priorities right.

68_pie
6th Mar 2013, 20:21
Nope. The graphics were more than satisfactory. It may not have been the latest and greatest, but I really don't care. It was better looking than Deus Ex, and that is good enough for me.

I found them pretty horrific TBH, so I guess we'll agree to disagree.


It was a good example. They used FO3 assets and engine and expanded, making a far better game. Focusing on everything other than graphics.

They used the engine because a) Bethesda didn't give them a choice and b) they had less than 18 months between the start of development and the ship date.


It handled everything it needed to for a Deus Ex style game, therefore it is perfectly fine.

Well if "fine" is good enough for you then I don't know what to say. I'd rather have the best available.


Such as what? Regardless, it hardly makes a difference, New Vegas is fantastic. I really don't care if it took ages to load some areas or everything about it is dated by 2011's standards. It supported a good game because the designers had their priorities right.

Scripting, animations, patching, DLC etc. Take a read of Josh Sawyer's formspring and you'll see plenty about the issues they had. GameBryo is dated by 2007 standards let alone 2011.

Somehow I imagine EM have a longer dev cycle than less than 18 months for a new DX and more people working on the game than Obsidian. Surely it would make sense to use the best and most efficient engine available? Especially as the game will be coming out on the next console generation.

Shralla
6th Mar 2013, 21:42
A game running on that engine and launching in 2014 or later will never sell to a mass audience. Sure, we might buy it. All what? Twenty of us? But nobody is going to buy a game that looks like HR on next-gen consoles.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 22:15
Sure it will sell.

Top selling games of all time:

Xbox360
Kinect Adventures- 24 million copies sold (Because of Kinect/Gimmick)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3- 14.23 million sold (same engine for how many years?)

PC
The Sims 2- 20 million copies (not exactly known for having top-tier graphics)
Minecraft- 9.531 million (1992 graphics?)

According to these statistics the audience disagrees with you and do not care about graphics either???



a) Bethesda didn't give them a choice
Source?



Well if "fine" is good enough for you then I don't know what to say. I'd rather have the best available.
I'd rather have the best game available.



Scripting, animations, patching, DLC etc. Take a read of Josh Sawyer's formspring and you'll see plenty about the issues they had. GameBryo is dated by 2007 standards let alone 2011.
Maybe i'll take a look sometime. And maybe it is the source I asked for above.


Somehow I imagine EM have a longer dev cycle than less than 18 months for a new DX and more people working on the game than Obsidian. Surely it would make sense to use the best and most efficient engine available? Especially as the game will be coming out on the next console generation.

If they have the time, passion and resources then sure it makes sense.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 22:24
Dbl post.

EricaLeeV
6th Mar 2013, 22:41
Sure it will sell.

Top selling games of all time:

Xbox360
Kinect Adventures- 24 million copies sold (Because of Kinect/Gimmick)
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3- 14.23 million sold (same engine for how many years?)

PC
The Sims 2- 20 million copies (not exactly known for having top-tier graphics)
Minecraft- 9.531 million (1992 graphics?)

According to these statistics the audience disagrees with you and do not care about graphics either???

I don't think those are fair comparisons. Those games are much more accessible to an audience at large.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 22:52
They aren't? What was so inaccessible about Deus Ex: Human Revolution? It had objective markers and highlighting. Why do people not get lost in Minecraft? Or lost in the vast customization options of The Sims 2?
Shooting terrorists in the face in Call of Duty: Modern warfare 3 is something I doubt that many females do?
Minecraft probably put off many graphics whores?

I can understand that Deus Ex 1 was inaccessible, but Human Revolution had everything covered when it came to ensuring accessibility. Although tbh the hacking mini-game probably put off some, and the tutorials were not forced.

EricaLeeV
6th Mar 2013, 22:56
I disagree with a lot of what you typed there, but I'll leave it at that.

CyberP
6th Mar 2013, 23:04
Ok then, to finalize- http://www.ggsgamer.com/2010/11/08/bethesda-announce-record-sales-figures-for-fallout-new-vegas/


The follow-up to 2008′s Game of the Year Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas has exceeded all expectations, shifting an incredible five million retail copies at launch.

The sales figures are most likely much higher to date.
FO:NV is even more inaccessible than Human Revolution, and less visually appealing.

HERESY
7th Mar 2013, 04:14
I'll tell you what looks dated- Deus Ex. Is it a timeless classic? Sure is. Human Revolution looked beautiful. But I couldn't touch that beauty without feeling disappointed.
Girls don't usually look so good without their makeup, what matters then is personality.

That's part of the reason why I don't play ED or it's sequel. I'm sorry, but the games are relics and I don't have time for them.

Shralla
7th Mar 2013, 08:53
What part of BRAND POWER do you not understand? The part where Deus Ex has none?

CyberP
7th Mar 2013, 10:04
What part of BRAND POWER do you not understand? The part where Deus Ex has none?

Oh yeah? If that is the case then why is there three games, an upcoming movie, a couple of books & comics and obsessive fans?

That's hardly "none".

I believe anything can be popular with the masses, it only needs an agressive marketing campaign and some kind of gimmick to get fools talking. Just because it's smart doesn't mean it cannot be popular.
Anyway this argument is getting boring.


That's part of the reason why I don't play ED or it's sequel. I'm sorry, but the games are relics and I don't have time for them.

ED? And you are a relic. You have time for socializing on a forum, or playing "non-relic" games, then you have time for older games.

vallux
7th Mar 2013, 14:18
ED? And you are a relic. You have time for socializing on a forum, or playing "non-relic" games, then you have time for older games.
Not really sure how this works.

SageSavage
7th Mar 2013, 14:42
On the DX movie, and Human Revolution as a TV series...
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/07/deus-ex-3s-producer-on-hollywood-videogames/

El_Bel
7th Mar 2013, 15:39
It’s a criticism [and a satire] of today’s society and the prejudice of power and lies of the authorities in the [supposed] name of our security... That said, this element was not our main focus

So... EM got what made Deus Ex great and decided to do something else... Are you ******* kidding me?


we were more interested in questions about our nature as humans, how technology is affecting what we are. Those are themes that affect us all and are very current.

I'm gonna quote Yahtzee on this one.


Deus Ex: Human Revolution centralizes the debate surrounding transhuman augmentation. "Would you," it asks, "supplement your body with machinery?"
What do you mean, would I? I already wear spectacles and a wristwatch, and I always carry a phone, which I'm currently in the process of duct-taping to the side of my head. Anyone who talks about technological development being "unnatural" deserves to be abandoned in the wilderness wearing nothing but a fig leaf.

So no EM, this is what made the games story so weak. The Icarus Effect followed the formula, and was much better than the game.

CyberP
7th Mar 2013, 18:35
On the DX movie, and Human Revolution as a TV series...
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/07/deus-ex-3s-producer-on-hollywood-videogames/

I was disgusted by what I read.

Shralla
7th Mar 2013, 18:53
The transhumanist discussion is nowhere near as cut and dry as you're pretending it is with that yahtzee quote. You can look in the comments section of any video or article about cybernetics and see that for yourself. It's a relevant topic and one that was approached very well in Human Revolution.

-Neon-
7th Mar 2013, 21:15
I was disgusted by what I read.

How so?

Zoet
7th Mar 2013, 21:31
The transhumanist discussion is nowhere near as cut and dry as you're pretending it is with that yahtzee quote. You can look in the comments section of any video or article about cybernetics and see that for yourself. It's a relevant topic and one that was approached very well in Human Revolution.

Very true. Also, I do think that the question of technology invading our lives is a very interesting one. For example, my brother is basically addicted to Facebook, and I think that sometimes it distorts his view of relity. You could look at such a dilemma as a transhumanist issue, seeing as it deals with voluntarily living life through a technological filter. Is doing such a thing bad or not? Is it something that has the potential to change the way we function as a society if done on a population-wide level? Does it even matter? Obviously, these are hyperbolic questions for my given example, but I think that the point still stands.
I don't agree with everything that mr Anfossi said, but you do have to admire that it seems like he really has a passion for what he does. Also, he agrees with me that TV and books are the best storytelling mediums out there.

FrankCSIS
7th Mar 2013, 21:46
On the DX movie, and Human Revolution as a TV series...
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/07/deus-ex-3s-producer-on-hollywood-videogames/

Mr Anfonsi is a good guy and a competent producer, but if the quotes truly represent the bulk of the exchange, I don't see anything relevant here. Merging the minds of the devs with those of the director does not ensure a good adaptation, least of all a good movie.

Phil K Dick kept away from Blade Runner, up until he was shown an advanced screening of some work in progress. While never being consulted, or refusing to consult, he declared being amazed at how well they had understood and depicted the world he had built in his mind. Yet the movie and the book have little in common in terms of story and narrative. If anything, it proved you don't need to reproduce a single action or narrative from the book to successfully adapt it.

As far as I know, Peter Jackson and crew did not use a Ouija board to consort with Tolkien, either.

It's also a sad state of affair when you think it's impossible to provide excellent character development in a 2-hour format. I know tv is all rage now (as if X Files and Dr Who never proved in the past that quality television could be amazing), but giving up on movies is ridiculous. The only real trouble is that films have not upped their game in the past decade, or reaffirmed their status as a true, self-contained experience. Too many movies look like two-hour episodes of a good tv show.

And finally, I repeat that in order to properly adapt a game, the studio simply needs to understand that games come primarily from books, and adaptations should be treated as such, instead of focusing on easily recognizable visual or narrative features. I've said it before, but Payback and Max Payne (game) are identical in almost every possible ways, despite having nothing to do with one another. Yet the Max Payne adaptation is a complete clusterfck of visual cues and strange conceptions.

As a parting gift, see also the Blade Runner game adaptation. Very interesting case study for cross-media adaptations and franchises. It was a masterpiece of book-to-movie-to-game adaptation, and a rare gem at that. While it took heavily from the movie and some from the book, it never denied being a game, and did not attempt to pose as anything else.

CyberP
8th Mar 2013, 00:51
How so?
My disgust was more due to the direction the franchise has been taken in as a whole. So much they have done with it is the exact opposite of Looking Glass', Ion Storm's and Warren Spector's vision.

Using the words video games and cinematic in the same sentence pisses me off a ton, especially when the topic is Deus Ex. "Cinematic" would not bother me AT ALL, if it were ever done ******* right. Developers attempts are consistently pathetic. There is one game I would consider a successful cinematic game- Red Dead Redemption.
The story was presented well in a cinematic style and most importantly not to the detriment of the gameplay. The original Metal Gear Solid I would consider too for the same reasons as red dead, though the gameplay could have been better, but it was satisfactory for the time. The games in the series made after are a mixed bag though.
Anyway, cinematic: it's rarely done right and usually gets in the way of gameplay. Just look at DX:HR's cutscenes, Or the takedowns. The conversation battles were done quite well though, ill give them that.

The Deus Ex movie can go **** itself as far as I am concerned, or rather whoever schemed up the plan to produce it.


”For example, the world of DXHR could easily give birth to a TV series of 12 episodes that would fully support the points mentioned and allow viewers to have a complete and satisfying experience. It would be, in my opinion, the best way to share the world we created. Maybe one day.”


“What I’m trying to say is that the game industry has remained [ingrained with] old principles and did not see coming the advent of high-quality TV series. And it is a general lack in our industry, of staying in a bubble without looking at what is happening outside.



His ultimate, personal goal, he adds, is to create “a meta-narrative with all different mediums supporting a same story at different levels. For example we could imagine a movie introducing the story of the PC game while mobile games could extend the story of characters of the PC game, and graphic novels giving an idea of what comes after the PC game, etc…”

These quotes in particular stood out to me. I won't go into why, i'll just say I strongly disagree and leave it at that (Deja vu).

Shralla
8th Mar 2013, 06:02
What's wrong with the idea of a Deus Ex TV show? It's far preferable to a movie. And what's wrong with thinking outside the box?

The only issue I see is meta-narrative, but ultimately as long as it's just side-story stuff in the non-game content, I'm fine with it.

Dentrick
8th Mar 2013, 06:36
I am so happy to see all the arguments that boil down to, "Things that I might not like should never be created."

We do not need to force another person's fiction into our brain.

CyberP
8th Mar 2013, 08:43
I am so happy to see all the arguments that boil down to, "Things that I might not like should never be created."


Only because I refused to make any points about the quotes. Also being angry about them pissing all over Ion Storm's IP is not exactly "Things that I might not like should never be created."

And Shralla, thinking out side the box? Of course there is nothing wrong with it, I'll drop you one of the reasons why I quoted that- Many video games reference literature, many games are influenced by movies, comics & books. Games developers often take note of the ways of the other mediums. What is this whole striving to be cinematic bull**** I was just going on about, or he was going on about? It's been going on for years. The reason I quoted his words there is because I think he is talking out of his ass.

That's all i'll say, but you are way off the mark with: "What's wrong with the idea of a Deus Ex TV show? It's far preferable to a movie".
I agree, but that is not why I quoted those particular words in the first place.

-Neon-
8th Mar 2013, 19:37
My disgust was more due to the direction the franchise has been taken in as a whole. So much they have done with it is the exact opposite of Looking Glass', Ion Storm's and Warren Spector's vision.


How has it taken a different direction? Warren Spector was disgusted with the way he let Invisible War be released, and despite some design choices in HR, he stated it was a good title in the Deus Ex series. I've heard from a lot of people that Icarus Effect was well written in regards to more backstory on the Tyrants.
Isn't there "must-read" Deus Ex bible that all of these people had to take to? You have to keep in mind that the original Deus Ex shipped a little over decade ago, and that people have to integrate what we have today into that universe.


Using the words video games and cinematic in the same sentence pisses me off a ton, especially when the topic is Deus Ex. "Cinematic" would not bother me AT ALL, if it were ever done ******* right. Developers attempts are consistently pathetic. . .
Anyway, cinematic: it's rarely done right and usually gets in the way of gameplay. Just look at DX:HR's cutscenes, Or the takedowns. The conversation battles were done quite well though, ill give them that.

The Deus Ex movie can go **** itself as far as I am concerned, or rather whoever schemed up the plan to produce it.
Outside of the time-stopping takedowns (which were well done themselves, but were sort of out of place), the cinematics in Deus Ex: Human Revolution were great. They set a mood, and while the character models themselves weren't all that great compared to some games, everything else in was really good eye-candy.

We can never get a good video game-based movie unless people are willing to try and learn from the mistakes of predecessors. Small-time game titles are not going to produce movies, so unfortunately, it's up to the bigger names in the gaming industry to push their products into what may end up being a slaughterhouse.

68_pie
8th Mar 2013, 21:14
the cinematics in Deus Ex: Human Revolution were great. They set a mood, and while the character models themselves weren't all that great compared to some games, everything else in was really good eye-candy.

They were immersion killing and far more numerous than we were told they would be.

CyberP
8th Mar 2013, 22:13
They were immersion killing and far more numerous than we were told they would be.

Gameplay killing too in the case of takedowns. Laughs to be had for all in the case of the cutscenes.

WildcatPhoenix
11th Mar 2013, 23:38
Using the words video games and cinematic in the same sentence pisses me off a ton, especially when the topic is Deus Ex.


Agreed, which is one of the fundamental problems with adapting Deus Ex into a movie or TV series. It's completely antithetical to the vision of the franchise (another word I despise, but oh well).

Deus Ex had plenty of dramatic moments (the standoff with Lebedev and Anna on the 747, the shootout in Paul's apartment, the milbot battle at Vandenberg, the fight with Simons in the Ocean Lab, etc), but almost all of them took place in a manner of the player's own choosing. And all of them took place in first person, maintaining immersion and connection with your character.

The current game design focus on making games more "cinematic" depresses the hell outta me. We've argued about this a thousand times on this board and others, but there is a major difference between telling me a story and giving me the tools to tell my own story.

HERESY
12th Mar 2013, 20:44
ED? And you are a relic. You have time for socializing on a forum, or playing "non-relic" games, then you have time for older games.

It was a typo but for now on I will refer to the "original" as "ED."

No, I don't have time for older games. I'm going to try Thief when I build a new system because someone here reeeeeeeeeeeally suggested I play it. As for ED? No dice. I tried it and it didn't work. I simply don't have time for relics. I have like 20 or so games I'm backlogged with, current gen titles, I can't devote hours on hand to them so I can't devote time to relics.


I am so happy to see all the arguments that boil down to, "Things that I might not like should never be created."

We do not need to force another person's fiction into our brain.

That's EXACTLY what it boils down to. You read my classic posts about third person perspective and/or the movie and you'll see I mentioned this as well.

FrankCSIS
13th Mar 2013, 00:02
Well, to be fair, that's only one side of the coin. It's not so much that things I don't like should never be created, and a lot more about things that I do like not being created (anymore).

2013 is looking to be slightly different, because Kickstarter has directly challenged the hegemony situation, but the past five years are certainly not a staple of diversity.

El_Bel
13th Mar 2013, 01:06
Why do you guys keep on feeding this troll, is beyond me.

HERESY
13th Mar 2013, 02:49
Well, to be fair, that's only one side of the coin. It's not so much that things I don't like should never be created, and a lot more about things that I do like not being created (anymore).

Then you need to start voting with your wallet. If you don't like what a company is doing or how they treat their customers you don't support them. I didn't support Bethesda when they knowingly released a broken version of Skyrim. I own 360 and ps3 and I didn't spend any money on the game because I felt the way the company handled it was wrong. However, I did purchase Dishonored and that purchase came at $25 and when the Skyrim issue was declared fixed.


2013 is looking to be slightly different, because Kickstarter has directly challenged the hegemony situation, but the past five years are certainly not a staple of diversity.

Well that actually depends on how you define "diversity." Concerning Kickstart, yes it has created a different ecosystem but the more it happens the more it's going to change and I don't see it changing for the good.

FrankCSIS
13th Mar 2013, 03:04
I don't profoundly disagree. For argument's sake however, I'd say voting with your wallet has the same flaw as voting in any election. I may make a choice or even get actively involved, but at the end of the day I still only get to pick from what's on the ballot.

Worse, if a good chunk of the crowd is wowed by something or someone I'm not, I will get more of the same the next time around. What happens in the end is I'm gradually excluded from the process.

I'm being cynical though, because in all fairness there is still a very good deal I enjoy. All I'm saying, I guess, is voting has its limits. And then the only solution left is to make it myself, and I will humbly say I don't believe I have what it takes to accomplish that much, in that field anyway. I've been there, and no good came out of it.

Kickstarter is a short-lived thing, but I'm going to enjoy it while it's good. Then we will just wait and see what new fad comes out of this unstructured and uncivilised industry in 3-5 years.

HERESY
13th Mar 2013, 03:09
Some of you aren't looking at it from a business or creative perspective so let's look at this from that perspective. You have an IP that has a solid fanbase. It isn't the largest fanbase but it is solid. You have a gazillion and one platforms and delivery mechanisms/devices out there that can be exploited to create more revenue streams. Why not do it? Look at The Walking Dead. It's transmedia at it's finest and it's generating revenue each and everyday. Mass Effect? Same thing. Halo? You bet.

Companies must be diverse and must be forward thinking if not they go belly up. If companies stay one dimensional and don't properly plan for growth they go belly up. If companies stay doing the same thing over and over, without giving there customers something new and compelling, they go belly up. Seriously, how long do you guys think SE/EM is going to keep pumping resources into this IP if it doesn't grow? Not too long. You think they can just keep pumping out a game every 3 or 4 years and keep the IP alive? Nope. Why? The numbers aren't there.



I don't profoundly disagree. For argument's sake however, I'd say voting with your wallet has the same flaw as voting in any election. I may make a choice or even get actively involved, but at the end of the day I still only get to pick from what's on the ballot.

Let me start off by saying I don't vote period. It's a sham. The global elite are not going to allow the common man to decide the leadership of the most industrious country on the face of the planet. It's like letting the janitor sit in at a fortune 500 company and have voting power. Nope, it ain't gonna happen.

However, with money it's a different thing because you can spend your money on something else. You aren't limited to what you can do with it or how you use it. So if you don't want to support game company X, you can take your money and say to hell with the games and spend it on food. Or how about clothing? Or how about a book? Or how about just donating it to cancer research?


Worse, if a good chunk of the crowd is wowed by something or someone I'm not, I will get more of the same the next time around. What happens in the end is I'm gradually excluded from the process.


I'm being cynical though, because in all fairness there is still a very good deal I enjoy. All I'm saying, I guess, is voting has its limits. And then the only solution left is to make it myself, and I will humbly say I don't believe I have what it takes to accomplish that much, in that field anyway. I've been there, and no good came out of it.

I hate seeing talk like this. I really do. You DO have what it takes! You have a working brain right? You have two hands right? Funding is the hardest thing to come by, trust me I'm speaking from experience here, but business savy, innovation and compelling content trumps all. You have to look at the ecosystem, see something that needs changing and change it. That's what you do. You get the right TEAM involved, you work your ass off, you forsake everything else and you BELIEVE in your product. How do I know? Because I've been there. I've had doors closed in my face, have had people drop the ball BIG TIME and cost us financing and I had the pick up the pieces. Right plan, right creative spark, right company culture, wrong people executing. Now? Things are completely different and everything is flowing as it should.

Have you ever watched Troy? There is a scene where a kid talks to Achilles about fighting a giant. You should watch that scene. That scene alone is worth a billion.


Kickstarter is a short-lived thing, but I'm going to enjoy it while it's good. Then we will just wait and see what new fad comes out of this unstructured and uncivilised industry in 3-5 years.

Someone will develop a new business model and things will go from there.

Focus on business models.

Shaikh
18th Mar 2013, 11:59
So who's going to play Adam Jensen? Mark Wahlberg?

Shralla
18th Mar 2013, 19:08
I like Mark Wahlberg (even if he is the poor man's Matt Damon), but I know you were joking, as he would probably not make a very good Adam Jensen.