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View Full Version : NPCs can see through walls?



Carver
21st Nov 2012, 16:29
Hey there!

So I've completed the game and discovered a really really annoying bug. The thing is that npc crowds (all those dozens of npcs, who are non-interactive) sometimes can see you through the walls. Literally.
Just to try it out, you can load the Vixen Club level and try to subdue guard at the restroom or guard near the private dance stalls. As soon as you grab the guard, you can hear crowd behind the wall going nuts and screaming. When you come back to the main hall, crowd npcs will be kinda afraid of you, saying that you're a sick bastard and things like that, even though guards and other interactive npcs seem not to be paying any attention to the crowd and do not suspect you. But this prevents you from getting Silent Assassin rating and also prevents you from getting "Do not be spotted" tick when creating a contract. It makes creating interesting contracts impossible!

Also, am I being "spotted" when I pick a knife or a cleaver? Am I being "spotted" if somebody finds the blood pool? There's no indication of it whatsoever.

Also, sometimes npcs can see a hidden body through the crate its lying in.

I made a video. It proves that NPCs are bugged or something.
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFC-F_ip7Y&feature=plcp)

Should we expect patches? Will this be fixed?

umadsadbadbro
21st Nov 2012, 18:53
I also noticed this in contracts mode. Not just walls either, also when you hide in crates/garbage cans etc. I had to kill the "King" by way of "accident" with dealer disguise, so I went to the little garbage area and hid behind the can at first in hopes of cutting him off and dropping the crates above him on his skull before he started to take a leak but instead he stopped in front of the gate asking me for some "candy".

So I tried hiding INSIDE the garbage can, same thing. This definitely requires a patch. AI should not have a wall hack, only player.

omega77
21st Nov 2012, 20:05
I had the same problem on king of china town I dressed as the dealer and lead the king down to where the dealer stores his drugs, then I shot him and proceeded to put his body in the bin. as I was doing this the king was still talking even tho he was dead lol. it was like a ventriloquist dummy talking in its case hahaha.

Carver
22nd Nov 2012, 08:21
Bump

Rekalty
22nd Nov 2012, 09:47
Why are you bumping this...

Carver
22nd Nov 2012, 09:53
Why are you bumping this...

Because I want this to be noticed and fixed, Sherlock.

Carver
22nd Nov 2012, 10:18
I made a video. It proves that NPCs are bugged or something.
Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFC-F_ip7Y&feature=plcp)

Orosian
22nd Nov 2012, 11:47
In Barbershop I shot one of the targets as he was relieving himself from a window up high. Nobody else was in view. Immediately after I shot him I concealed my weapon and then walked away. They went hostile towards me! I span around and there was nobody in sight. (On my next playthrough I did it with a knife and crouched before moving away and didn't get spotted)

Yeti1
22nd Nov 2012, 14:34
I seen this too, some guard tried to arrest me in the first new hope level, he had his gun coming through the wall and was talking to me as if he could see me, they can definitely see through the walls in some cases. I was going to make a post about it but i'll just clarify it in here so they can fix it.

gyron
22nd Nov 2012, 20:18
I think it happens because of the sound guards make when you subdue them -- at least in the video example Carver posted. Sound travels through walls and that's what alerts the nearby civilians. Although the fact that they immediately know who took out the guard is kind lame.

Carver
22nd Nov 2012, 20:32
I think it happens because of the sound guards make when you subdue them -- at least in the video example Carver posted. Sound travels through walls and that's what alerts the nearby civilians. Although the fact that they immediately know who took out the guard is kind lame.

Guard right behind the wall didn't hear it, dancer near the private stalls didn't hear it and yet civilians somehow started screaming as soon as I grabbed the guard. I'm pretty sure they see me somehow.

P4NCH0theD0G
22nd Nov 2012, 20:47
Xbox 360, installed on HDD, Day-One Title Update, connected to Live.

Well, I can tell you now after some extensive testing on Chinatown Square on Hard, some parts of Contracts mode are completely broken. Namely "Only Kill Targets" and "Don't get spotted".

I will upload a video later that will show you about 30 minutes of ridiculous AI behavior and broken game play mechanics. This really needs to be fixed.

In short, every melee attack or subdual (yes, that really is the noun to subdue) will get you instantly spotted - i.e. No "Don't get spotted" bonus/checkmark.

It doesn't matter where you do it or if people are close that could possibly see you, apparently the person you confront counts as the one spotting you - which kinda makes sense, since he's not dead and even if choked from behind later could say: "Hey, someone knocked me out before all the crap went down..." but it still sucks. In that spirit, should you silently kill the person, you will not be spotted and not lose your bonus even if everything else is exactly the same.

Taken to the extreme is that when it comes to Civilians. In about 15 different attempts, I killed many, many civilians, but not once did I get "spotted" for that, no matter how many people were around. I could take a human shield, then kill a few people, knock out the hostage and was still not spotted. But should I, without anything done before and out of sight of enemies or witnesses, walk up to a civilian and melee him, I instantly get spotted and lose my bonus. (another funny thing I found out here is that Civilians do not count against "Only Kill Targets" - of the 15 attempts and about 40 civilian kills only once did I lose my bonus for that)

As to the NPCs seeing through walls, that's another funny thing. They do, but only partially.
First, again that only happens with a non-lethal melee takedown (snapping of necks not included). If you leave the body and just walk back out into the open, people will be scared of you (despite not possibly having seen you do anything - something optimistic souls might attribute to a "Two went in, one came out" mentality, but that's really pushing it). If you drag the body somewhere and take his clothes as a disguise, then go out into the open, the crowd will not be scared of you. I even once had the crowd scared of me for a few seconds, then just stop being scared, look around and that was that.

"Only Kill Targets" is sadly broken, no matter which way you look at it. As I said before, I killed many civilians, and not only did I not get spotted when I used my gun, only once out of 40 kills did it count as a Kill that voided "Only Kill Targets". Also, after a while the crowd will calm down, just mill around the dead body, and even enemies will just walk past it taking no notice. To get a reaction I had to kill lots of people or kill someone where an enemy could see.

Very sad this is. Very angry am I. Pretty embarrassing...

I'll upload the video later, give you something to marvel at...

Carver
22nd Nov 2012, 21:01
Great post, thank you. Can't wait to watch your video. We need developers to notice these problems and fix'em.

P4NCH0theD0G
22nd Nov 2012, 22:34
Here's the video:

http://youtu.be/tJzp7GpcMWw

Some time indications:

00:00-23:00 Experimentation with Civilians: Kills and being Spotted, also later showcasing some weird AI behavior and "Near Body" Alerts nobody understands.

23:00-28:00 Experimentation with Enemy NPCs and being Spotted, and some Civilian Reactions

28:00-34:30 Longer Experimentation showcasing how being spotted is dependent on melee attacks/subduals as opposed to shooting civilians from the same spot.

36:00-43:30 Some more Experimentation with Enemy NPCs being knocked out out of sight and the player being spotted and crowd reaction, as opposed to the player silently killing the same NPC in the same setting without being spotted and no crowd reaction (38:30).

43:30 - end: Some more experimentation with Enemy NPCs, being spotted and crowd reaction, with at the very end the crowd being first scared then suddenly not anymore


Almost 50 minutes long. I thought about cutting it down, but I don't really have the equipment or the nerve, and if some devs really look at it, I thought they might appreciate looking at it with no cuts, time jumps or anything. One-take, all the way. Quality might not be the best, but it's the best I have.