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View Full Version : Am I the only Adam/Megan fan here?



Charles_Phipps
24th Mar 2012, 23:11
I've read a lot of people feel the relationship between Adam and Megan was underdone, I felt the emotional investment was actually quite good. The opening conversation of the game between them had a lot of understated allusions which told us plenty about the pair (they used to live together, Megan was a handywoman, obviously both of them want to get back together and it tortures Adam that they didn't).

Obviously, we later find out that Megan used Adam's DNA to make super-augmentations possible but (unlike Sarif) it's torturing her with guilt. You have to wonder how she'll feel when she discovers she's directly responsible for the death of MILLIONS thanks to Darrow's perversions of her research.

The fact that Bob Page is going to use her nanotech research to make the Gray Death is even worse.

OF COURSE, Megan also will create the Dentons as a result of that research as well. Which, in it's own way, makes her the Mary/Eve figure of the setting to Adam's Adam.

I'd like to see this relationship continued, even if the potential for tragedy is extremely high.

Tverdyj
24th Mar 2012, 23:17
too bad Adam's dead then, isn't it?

Charles_Phipps
24th Mar 2012, 23:34
My response?

Eh, Deus Ex has a tradition of combining endings.

"After the Darrow Incident, some blamed it tainted chemicals and called for increased regulation. Others blamed Purity First and demanded more freedom for augments. Others believed a mysterious cabal called the Illuminati orchestrated the entire thing or blamed Darrow himself. In the end, Darrow's massive project sank into the sea with its prisoners rescued at the last minute by UN Soldiers."

That way, everyone can consider their choice at the end canon. Also, it keeps Adam from being a mass murderer of innocent people even if he felt it was for the greater good.

Tverdyj
25th Mar 2012, 00:41
My response?

Eh, Deus Ex has a tradition of combining endings.

"After the Darrow Incident, some blamed it tainted chemicals and called for increased regulation. Others blamed Purity First and demanded more freedom for augments. Others believed a mysterious cabal called the Illuminati orchestrated the entire thing or blamed Darrow himself. In the end, Darrow's massive project sank into the sea with its prisoners rescued at the last minute by UN Soldiers."

That way, everyone can consider their choice at the end canon. Also, it keeps Adam from being a mass murderer of innocent people even if he felt it was for the greater good.

lol, that "tradition" turned out sooooo well for IW.
I don't mind the ending in DXHR per se, btw. I felt it was a strong tribute to IW, actually, and very well-done, as such.
but I have reservations over how they are gonna keep the story going, since I'm quite militantly against them messing with the original.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 02:48
lol, that "tradition" turned out sooooo well for IW.

Eh, I think Invisible War was an unnecessary sequel for several reasons but they handled it as best as could reasonably be done when one of your endings had your protagonist become Cyber-God.


I don't mind the ending in DXHR per se, btw. I felt it was a strong tribute to IW, actually, and very well-done, as such but I have reservations over how they are gonna keep the story going, since I'm quite militantly against them messing with the original.

I think another prequel is the obvious solution. Something which takes place in the ensuing twenty years. Obvious hooks include:

* The project which creates Paul and JC.
* The collapse of the Illuminati and the rise of Majestic-12.
* Area 51
* UNATACO
* NFS

I could also see a genuine sequel after Invisible War. A 30 years older Adam Jensen, kept young by his Augments in a world where everyone is nano-enhanced, beautiful, and hooked to the net. It's a False Paradise though and he has to come out of retirement to do.....

[i]"It's 2060. Thanks to nanotechnology, lifespans have doubled and everyone is connected to the Net. The unification of the world has not gone without consequence, however, as governments compete to hold onto power where everyone has the power to be cyber-gods."

Zerim
25th Mar 2012, 02:58
I could also see a genuine sequel after Invisible War. A 30 years older Adam Jensen, kept young by his Augments in a world where everyone is nano-enhanced, beautiful, and hooked to the net. It's a False Paradise though and he has to come out of retirement to do....[insert whatever].

You're kidding, right?

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 03:03
You're kidding, right?

Why not?

Depending on they handle it, it could be an interesting investigation into the theme established in HR.

Human revolution is all about, "The Illuminati fear augmentation will make people impossible to control."

JC Denton's plan in IW is, "give everyone augmentation so the Illuminati can't control them."

Why not actually see if it's possible to write that.

Nanotech gone wild, class divisions collapsing, civil war, and so on as all the old divisions begin to collapse.

Then you have Adam, a relic, a guy who is like Gunther - someone nanotech can't be used on because he's augmented out the gills.

Yet, he's got SKILLS and Skills is what they need.

Plus, you could have JC and Adam talk.

Tverdyj
25th Mar 2012, 03:05
Eh, I think Invisible War was an unnecessary sequel for several reasons but they handled it as best as could reasonably be done when one of your endings had your protagonist become Cyber-God.



I think another prequel is the obvious solution. Something which takes place in the ensuing twenty years. Obvious hooks include:

* The project which creates Paul and JC.
* The collapse of the Illuminati and the rise of Majestic-12.
* Area 51
* UNATACO
* NFS

I could also see a genuine sequel after Invisible War. A 30 years older Adam Jensen, kept young by his Augments in a world where everyone is nano-enhanced, beautiful, and hooked to the net. It's a False Paradise though and he has to come out of retirement to do.....

[i]"It's 2060. Thanks to nanotechnology, lifespans have doubled and everyone is connected to the Net. The unification of the world has not gone without consequence, however, as governments compete to hold onto power where everyone has the power to be cyber-gods."

huh?
DX takes place in 2050's
IW is set 20 years after DX.
if you do an IW sequel, none of its endings suggest word is a paradise, with nano-augs for all. except for the Helios ending, but there you run into a diff. set of problems.

AJ would be in his 90s though.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 03:09
Weird, I compressed the timeline in my head.

My bad.

You could still justify it, though.

Adam Jensen's Healing Factor from the first game could reduce his aging. Not make him immortal but since aging is caused by body parts wearing down, it's actually scientifically possible. He could look like he's in his sixties as opposed to being in his nineties.

I agree, though, that the Helios ending doesn't have to be a paradise and that's my thought. You could combine the endings the same way Invisible War is. With the world now all nano-teched up, Samael's guys are now bomb-throwing anarchists and the Illuminati is DESPERATELY trying to rebuild things. You could even have the Omar as trying to start an extinction-level event.

Tverdyj
25th Mar 2012, 03:23
Weird, I compressed the timeline in my head.

My bad.

You could still justify it, though.

Adam Jensen's Healing Factor from the first game could reduce his aging. Not make him immortal but since aging is caused by body parts wearing down, it's actually scientifically possible. He could look like he's in his sixties as opposed to being in his nineties.

I agree, though, that the Helios ending doesn't have to be a paradise and that's my thought. You could combine the endings the same way Invisible War is. With the world now all nano-teched up, Samael's guys are now bomb-throwing anarchists and the Illuminati is DESPERATELY trying to rebuild things. You could even have the Omar as trying to start an extinction-level event.

hrm
you see, the problem with "combining" endings for both IW and HR is that they've been designed to be mutually exclusive.

In IW, the single most important outcome of the ending (except for the Omar) is "who gains control of Space station Ophelia + the Aquinas Protocol?"

the most realistic way to "combine endings" is a base Illuminati victory, with splinters of Apostle Corp + Templars surviving.

The reason I say HR's endings are similar is because, likewise, only one message can be sent explaining the mess in Panchaea.i'm not sure how you can twist the broadcasts.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 03:27
hrm
you see, the problem with "combining" endings for both IW and HR is that they've been designed to be mutually exclusive.

You could say the same for the original 'Deus Ex.'


In IW, the single most important outcome of the ending (except for the Omar) is "who gains control of Space station Ophelia + the Aquinas Protocol?"

Very true.


the most realistic way to "combine endings" is a base Illuminati victory, with splinters of Apostle Corp + Templars surviving.

A lot of people seem to agree the Illuminati ending is the easiest to make canon. I have a soft spot for JC and his dreams, however.


The reason I say HR's endings are similar is because, likewise, only one message can be sent explaining the mess in Panchaea.i'm not sure how you can twist the broadcasts.

Yeah, but it's actually the easiest one to handle because it doesn't matter WHICH ending is canon because all of them end up the same.

I.e. Deus Ex.

The only difference is whether David, Taggert, and Jensen survive. Which, like the Omar and Templar endings, is the only really out there one.

Tverdyj
25th Mar 2012, 03:41
You could say the same for the original 'Deus Ex.'



Very true.



A lot of people seem to agree the Illuminati ending is the easiest to make canon. I have a soft spot for JC and his dreams, however.



Yeah, but it's actually the easiest one to handle because it doesn't matter WHICH ending is canon because all of them end up the same.

I.e. Deus Ex.

The only difference is whether David, Taggert, and Jensen survive. Which, like the Omar and Templar endings, is the only really out there one.

See, I disagree. the endings in DX weren't nearly as mutually exclusive.

I could disable all 4 generators, feeding power to Bob Page, open the uplink Locks for Helios, flush the coolant and disengage the safeties for the reactors and start overloading them. There was nothing preventing me from destroying the facility after the merger, except for the game over screen. in fact, that is exactly how it supposedly unfolded: JC merged, this triggered the destruction of A51, and then illuminati picked up the pieces while JC was out of it.As much as possible, they've made the endings work.
the key feature of this being--the endings weren't predicated on elimination of all other factions (with the exception of Page). Both HR and IW, otoh, make the player choose the ending that will result in physical elimination of all others.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 03:48
See, I disagree. the endings in DX weren't nearly as mutually exclusive.

I could disable all 4 generators, feeding power to Bob Page, open the uplink Locks for Helios, flush the coolant and disengage the safeties for the reactors and start overloading them. There was nothing preventing me from destroying the facility after the merger, except for the game over screen. in fact, that is exactly how it supposedly unfolded: JC merged, this triggered the destruction of A51, and then illuminati picked up the pieces while JC was out of it.As much as possible, they've made the endings work.
the key feature of this being--the endings weren't predicated on elimination of all other factions (with the exception of Page). Both HR and IW, otoh, make the player choose the ending that will result in physical elimination of all others.

Yeah, but that's EXTREMELY unlikely since the philosophical underpinnings are Anarchy, Control, and Ascension.

Likewise, in HR, whatever message gets out isn't going to change much because canonically all roads lead to Rome.

Or, in this case, Bob Page creating M-12 and JC.

In all endings but the Destruction one, Sarif and Taggert live as do Jensen.

Tverdyj
25th Mar 2012, 04:43
Yeah, but that's EXTREMELY unlikely since the philosophical underpinnings are Anarchy, Control, and Ascension.

Likewise, in HR, whatever message gets out isn't going to change much because canonically all roads lead to Rome.

Or, in this case, Bob Page creating M-12 and JC.

In all endings but the Destruction one, Sarif and Taggert live as do Jensen.

well, that's the catch-22 of being a prequel, ain't it?
Also, I want next DX game to have Lagos as one of its hubs.

Mustapha Mond
25th Mar 2012, 05:38
Heh, well OT, I was kinda "meh" about the whole Adam/Megan thing at first. I really didn't think there was a place for anything resembling a love story in DX, but it did make Adam's cybernetic transformation a little more jarring. I do agree that it could have been fleshed out more for emotive purposes, but it didn't detract from the overall story.

I might've appreciated it more had I been younger. I remember playing FFX and being really captivated by the romance between Tidus and Yuna, but I was in my early teens. I'm just not a huge romance person anymore, partly because I'm older and have lost that naivete that comes with lack of relationship experience. I'm not trying to sound like an overly-cynical curmudgeon. Maybe my indifference toward romance right now is partly due to the fact that I'm currently in a relationship that is...underwhelming.

Romance in video games is a bit tricky, and I don't think it was done badly in HR.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 06:17
In addition to the jarring effect, it also provides Adam with a nice motivation I really got motivated in. Adam doesn't really care about the Illuminati, world-wide conspiracies, or even his Boss' welfare. He's after his the woman he loves who has been stolen from him.

It's the oldest motivation of video games.

If they do a sequel with Adam, I'd love to see his past with Megan fleshed out. It was nicely handled in the Darkness 2.

Mustapha Mond
25th Mar 2012, 10:49
In addition to the jarring effect, it also provides Adam with a nice motivation I really got motivated in. Adam doesn't really care about the Illuminati, world-wide conspiracies, or even his Boss' welfare. He's after his the woman he loves who has been stolen from him.

It's the oldest motivation of video games.

If they do a sequel with Adam, I'd love to see his past with Megan fleshed out. It was nicely handled in the Darkness 2.

Therein lies the disconnect, though; Adam's motivations were completely different from my motivations. Having played the original DX, I know what will inevitably become of the future, and I want to know how it got to that point. Megan felt like a tertiary character to me during my first playthrough, but the second time was a little better because I knew how her role would tie into the larger picture.

You could argue that it wasn't all that fundamentally different from the JC/Paul situation in DX1 -- aside from the romance, obviously -- but I felt that relationship was better established from the get-go.

Charles_Phipps
25th Mar 2012, 11:28
Therein lies the disconnect, though; Adam's motivations were completely different from my motivations. Having played the original DX, I know what will inevitably become of the future, and I want to know how it got to that point. Megan felt like a tertiary character to me during my first playthrough, but the second time was a little better because I knew how her role would tie into the larger picture.

You could argue that it wasn't all that fundamentally different from the JC/Paul situation in DX1 -- aside from the romance, obviously -- but I felt that relationship was better established from the get-go.

Interesting.

In my case, the Megan motivation worked for me BECAUSE I knew that (ultimately) Adam's actions were going to be pointless on a global scale. JC Denton's story is already set in stone and so is the Illuminati's so everything from this point will have to be about the people Adam knows and loves.

While I don't mind Adam being connected to the larger picture as the "Father" of Augmentation - I did think him being genetically engineered by Versalife was sort of stupid. I would have preferred Adam to be just a guy with a random genetic mutation that was noticed by one of the scientists.

Charles_Phipps
26th Mar 2012, 07:25
Oh btw, I had a theory about Megan and Adam's relationship:

The desperation that Megan displays about the whole testing business shows that simultaneously:

1. Megan obviously wasn't in the relationship just for the DNA since she obviously feels guilty about it.
2. Megan obviously felt it was something that would open up a serious can of worms with Adam.

Here's my suggestion:

Megan and Adam start dating. Adam gets fired because he refuses to shoot the 15 year old augmented kid in Mexicotown. Megan decides to ask her boss to take Adam on as the chief of security.David Sarif runs an expansive background check and finds out Adam was created by the Illuminati in a laboratory.

Megan realizes there's something special about his DNA and tests it. She realizes she can use it to complete her work and does so, feeling guilty about it the entire time. She can't bring it up with him because it would open the can of worms of David investigating him and what she's doing - she can't risk him saying no with MILLIONS of lives likely to be improved by it.

So their relationship falls apart. Adam doesn't know WHY!

Which leads us to the present.

kalms
27th Mar 2012, 19:45
I'm right there with you. Was quite bummed that the Adam/Megan thing wasn't properly resolved. Not fair against Adam ;)

Reven
27th Mar 2012, 20:22
We should start a shipping war on this forum...where are the young ladies when you need them? They always bring the best ship to ship combat.

Charles_Phipps
27th Mar 2012, 23:03
Yeah, Adam does read like the stereotypical Woobie for girls.

Angsty brooding guy who secretly pines for his Twue Wuv as his biggest motivation.

Of course, I'm sure there'd be people who like Eliza/Adam more.

Though, I'm pretty sure that's canon.

TrickyVein
28th Mar 2012, 00:21
'Woobie?' What is this woobie...? *Checks internet*

Awwww! AJ is like a TEDDY BEAR!!!

That's better than Meagan, who's so skinny it'd probably hurt trying to hug her and avoid her bones (http://ia600507.us.archive.org/8/items/LouisPrimaOrch-01-20/LouisPrimaOrchVkeelySmith-TheCloserToTheBoneTheSweeterTheMeat.mp3)...

Ilves
28th Mar 2012, 16:02
Fun fact: Prima was married and divorced x5. Something about that song compelled me to look that up. :lol:

TrickyVein
28th Mar 2012, 17:28
Oh, chauvinism. You were enjoyed. :D

Did you know that he provided the voice for 'King Louie' in the Jungle Book?

Ilves
28th Mar 2012, 17:38
Could've sworn that was Satchmo, but you're right. Ooh, and I stand corrected, married x5, divorced x4.

ravien
6th Apr 2012, 17:58
Adam doesn't really care about the Illuminati, world-wide conspiracies, or even his Boss' welfare. He's after his the woman he loves who has been stolen from him.

It's the oldest motivation of video games.

Seems more of a projection to me. I did not once get that vibe when I played, and frankly I would've hated it because it is as you say--an old plot device that has been done to death. There's no doubt he cares for her but I felt his biggest motivation was figuring out the reason for the attack on Sarif Industries and why it was covered up, which in turn leads him to believe she might still be alive. Of course he would want to find her for that reason, but revenge is probably a big factor too. Namir and company cost Adam a lot more than his love life.

But I guess that's the point of DXHR, everyone reads into it however they want and the view differs from person to person.


Yeah, Adam does read like the stereotypical Woobie for girls.

Angsty brooding guy who secretly pines for his Twue Wuv as his biggest motivation.

No, he reads as woobie because he has had everything taken from him--his limbs, people he cares about, the capacity to live the way he once had. The appeal of a woobie is about relieving the character's pain, not unrequited romance.

One of the things I liked most about the writing is that his brooding isn't over the top unless you deliberately make that choice yourself. Besides, you can discover so much about him as a character without him saying a word. Why else would his apartment be such a popular fan favorite? Subtlety is key.

lastpawn
8th Apr 2012, 01:58
Seems more of a projection to me. I did not once get that vibe when I played, and frankly I would've hated it because it is as you say--an old plot device that has been done to death. There's no doubt he cares for her but I felt his biggest motivation was figuring out the reason for the attack on Sarif Industries and why it was covered up, which in turn leads him to believe she might still be alive. Of course he would want to find her for that reason, but revenge is probably a big factor too. Namir and company cost Adam a lot more than his love life.

But I guess that's the point of DXHR, everyone reads into it however they want and the view differs from person to person.

...

No, he reads as woobie because he has had everything taken from him--his limbs, people he cares about, the capacity to live the way he once had. The appeal of a woobie is about relieving the character's pain, not unrequited romance.

One of the things I liked most about the writing is that his brooding isn't over the top unless you deliberately make that choice yourself. Besides, you can discover so much about him as a character without him saying a word. Why else would his apartment be such a popular fan favorite? Subtlety is key.

Hear, hear. I was about to make a comment and realized you already said everything I meant to say. Adam's feelings made sense to me. He lost his limbs, eyes, etc. (not to mention pride, woman, etc.) without his choice, in a world where augmentations are still not the norm. And his bitterness and anger were subtle and well done unless you choose the more angsty responses.