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View Full Version : DLC Idea: Takedowns dont use energy, dont freeze time, optional first person



111BLACKLIGHTNING111
8th Mar 2012, 17:12
There are people out there like me that simply refuse to buy the game due to its third person attributes (or more like unnecessary annoyances). The cover system can largely be ignored (if Im not mistaken) but takedowns cannot. Takedowns are a crucial part of the game. They are the only form of melee. What I suggest is that the developers create a low cost/free DLC that does the following:

Takedowns dont use energy, but also dont freeze time: This would force players to actually use takedowns in a strategic manner rather than using them as an "I win" button. It would eliminate the absolute ludicrous annoyance of not being able to punch someone in the face when you absolutely should. The only issue with this is that some takedown animations are lengthy and would render the player very vulnerable to enemies. There are ways around this issue, such as cutting certain parts of the animations speeding up certain parts of the animations or maybe creating a few new animations or getting rid of a few animations.

Now to top this all off, you can view these takedowns in first person if you wish. For those little kiddies out there, they still have the option of third person. First person melee animations look awesome, because its like your doing it. Mirrors edge, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 are just a few of the games that feature such first person.

Now why do people like me want something like this? First person serves to make the player feel more immersed in the game. Third person lessens this (unless its like MGS). Also, freezing time and limiting how much the player can melee also serves to lessen immersion. Theres no contrary argument to those statements.

Since the third person cover system is optional (as far as I know) the following isnt necessary, but would go a long way for first person hardcores: Make the cover system optionally first person.

This DLC should be free because the actual amount development it would take would be trivial.

What does Eidos/SquareEnix have to gain from releasing this DLC? First person hardcores like me. The market for videogames is dominately for first person shooters. When your typical COD fanboy or such sees the back of the game or trailer, they assume its a third person shooter or maybe they assume its a mix or whatever, or they are like me and look into the details online and ultimately get turned off by the game.

I actually dont have a problem with third person shooters. Theres some really good ones such as Binary Domain and Resident evil 5 (and the long awaited RE6!). The problem I have with HR is that its not consistent, nor is the third person adequate. The third person was probably thrown in as some sloppily conceptualized afterthought, probably inspired by the idea that it would boost sales (which it didnt). In MGS, the symbiosis between third and first person is creative and unique. In HR, its a gimmick.

I dont have a terribly high expectation that this will actually happen, nor will I go out of my way to keep this thread alive by arguing with little children. If you agree then please comment to keep the thread going.

Zerim
8th Mar 2012, 19:41
Obviously we would all like more options to be presented for different gameplay options, but I really don't think this is going to happen, and certainly won't happen for free.

Also, these changes are actually NOT easy to implement. For instance, did you know that in HR, when you go into 3rd person cover mode, the player's "location" on the map is actually placed at the spot where the camera stands?

Adam doesn't have any animations for movement etc. that happens in 1st person. The way the AI is programmed to react to all these things- the takedowns, cover system, etc. would have to be MASSIVELY changed, and as all developers know any small change in a finished game results in TONS and tons of new bugs and issues that need fixing out of the blue.

This sort of stuff would just be WAY too much work to implement. It's DEFINITELY not going to happen.

Everyone has their own wishes about how this game could be played. Obviously the devs can't attend to everyone's specific desires. Although this is exactly why if I had the power to choose I'd choose them to release modding tools for the game than anything else. That way, we could have all kinds of play styles, levels, new augments etc. by the ton.

If you want this so bad, I recommend putting together a capable fan team to reverse engineer the game and make it moddable. DXHR deserves that effort, and I'll get to it myself eventually if no one starts before I get all my stuff together.

Romeo
8th Mar 2012, 21:13
There are people out there like me that simply refuse to buy the game due to its third person attributes (or more like unnecessary annoyances). The cover system can largely be ignored (if Im not mistaken) but takedowns cannot. Takedowns are a crucial part of the game. They are the only form of melee. What I suggest is that the developers create a low cost/free DLC that does the following:

Takedowns dont use energy, but also dont freeze time: This would force players to actually use takedowns in a strategic manner rather than using them as an "I win" button. It would eliminate the absolute ludicrous annoyance of not being able to punch someone in the face when you absolutely should. The only issue with this is that some takedown animations are lengthy and would render the player very vulnerable to enemies. There are ways around this issue, such as cutting certain parts of the animations speeding up certain parts of the animations or maybe creating a few new animations or getting rid of a few animations.
While I dislike the reliance on the awful takedown system, you're asking for a fundamental re-design of the game. That'd be like someone asking Skyrim to introduce "dlc" that put attributes back in. Would be great? Totally. Will it happen? Not a god-damned chance.

Now to top this all off, you can view these takedowns in first person if you wish. For those little kiddies out there, they still have the option of third person. First person melee animations look awesome, because its like your doing it. Mirrors edge, Crysis 2, Battlefield 3 are just a few of the games that feature such first person.
Ok, right off the bat, if your introductory post is already calling anyone who's opinion differs from yours a "kiddy", I'm foreseeing a very short visit. It also tends to weaken your point, as it looks like it can't stand on it's own merits.

Now why do people like me want something like this? First person serves to make the player feel more immersed in the game. Third person lessens this (unless its like MGS). Also, freezing time and limiting how much the player can melee also serves to lessen immersion. Theres no contrary argument to those statements.

Since the third person cover system is optional (as far as I know) the following isnt necessary, but would go a long way for first person hardcores: Make the cover system optionally first person.
There is contrary arguments to those statements, as plenty of prior posts have proven. Personally, I don't like the third-person animation. Some people do. Anyways, as was mentioned, you aren't actually "doing" anything in first-person during takedowns. It's not a simple "here's what it would look like with the camera moved" type of deal.

This DLC should be free because the actual amount development it would take would be trivial.
No. Just... That's so wrong.

What does Eidos/SquareEnix have to gain from releasing this DLC? First person hardcores like me. The market for videogames is dominately for first person shooters. When your typical COD fanboy or such sees the back of the game or trailer, they assume its a third person shooter or maybe they assume its a mix or whatever, or they are like me and look into the details online and ultimately get turned off by the game.

I actually dont have a problem with third person shooters. Theres some really good ones such as Binary Domain and Resident evil 5 (and the long awaited RE6!). The problem I have with HR is that its not consistent, nor is the third person adequate. The third person was probably thrown in as some sloppily conceptualized afterthought, probably inspired by the idea that it would boost sales (which it didnt). In MGS, the symbiosis between third and first person is creative and unique. In HR, its a gimmick.
I think you're being a bit optimistic. Deus Ex is no longer a new game, nor does it have DLC or expansions pushing it back in to the spotlight. Releasing this would be nice to those of us who already owned it, but would likely spur no sales on it's own.

I dont have a terribly high expectation that this will actually happen, nor will I go out of my way to keep this thread alive by arguing with little children. If you agree then please comment to keep the thread going.
Let me get this straight: You came to forums - by definition, a place for discussion - hoping to post something without any discussion? Are you seriously just asking anyone with the same opinion for a pat on the back while everyone doesn't get to post?

lowenz
8th Mar 2012, 22:12
Low cost takedown? No, simple non-lethal "punch" is enough.
If you want a simple&lethal takedown go for Syndicate.

Improvements:
*takedown in first person view and with no slow-motion/invulnerability (as in Syndicate, animation is perfect)
*cover system * la Crysis 2 (click the button at the edge -> cover&shoot -> move to disangage the cover state)

SDF121
9th Mar 2012, 00:06
As much as I would love to see a first person mod. I doubt that we'll ever see one. However, if they were to make one I would be more than willing to shell out some cash for it. I think it may require more work to implement the features that the OP desires although a simpler compromise would be to reintroduce lean keys and to inlude a lethal and non lethal melee weapon. Then again, that still leaves one with 3rd person animations while climbing ladders, punching through walls, and using the icarus system... Better yet, just release the SDK through the Steam workshop and let the fans make a first person mod.

111BLACKLIGHTNING111
9th Mar 2012, 16:11
I should have known I would not be able to resist replying.


certainly won't happen for free.

No one is going to pay for an arguably small feature, as good/useful as that feature is.


these changes are actually NOT easy to implement.

Of all the intensely frustrating and redundant forum arguments, the pessimistic and ignorant idea that an idea for a game feature should be cast aside because its "too hard to code" is right there on top. I dont care if your a modder, I dont care if you went to college, none of you know anything as it applies to professional video game development. What may be difficult to a modder may be cake for a team (key word TEAM) of professional developers. Something as trivial as moving a player camera perspective from third to first as opposed to everything the devs have done in development of the game thus far is in fact trivial by definition.


did you know that in HR, when you go into 3rd person cover mode, the player's "location" on the map is actually placed at the spot where the camera stands?

Explain how this is relevant to this discussion.


you're asking for a fundamental re-design of the game.

No, but asking for attributes in Skyrim, as you mentioned, is.


Are you seriously just asking anyone with the same opinion for a pat on the back while everyone doesn't get to post?

Wow... that was a hard strawman


I think you're being a bit optimistic. Deus Ex is no longer a new game, nor does it have DLC or expansions pushing it back in to the spotlight. Releasing this would be nice to those of us who already owned it, but would likely spur no sales on it's own.

This is about the only valid point you have.

Zerim
9th Mar 2012, 17:24
Even on the tiny possibility that you're actually not trolling, I'm just not going to discuss anything with you because of your ignorant and dismissive tone. Go learn a thing or two about how such changes are made in game development, and most importantly, about how to talk to people without sounding like a jackass on roid rage.

111BLACKLIGHTNING111
9th Mar 2012, 21:08
So because I structured logical counters to all the main arguements on this page, Im a troll-jackass on roid rage... ok bro.

Romeo
9th Mar 2012, 23:34
I should have known I would not be able to resist replying.



No one is going to pay for an arguably small feature, as good/useful as that feature is.



Of all the intensely frustrating and redundant forum arguments, the pessimistic and ignorant idea that an idea for a game feature should be cast aside because its "too hard to code" is right there on top. I dont care if your a modder, I dont care if you went to college, none of you know anything as it applies to professional video game development. What may be difficult to a modder may be cake for a team (key word TEAM) of professional developers. Something as trivial as moving a player camera perspective from third to first as opposed to everything the devs have done in development of the game thus far is in fact trivial by definition.



Explain how this is relevant to this discussion.



No, but asking for attributes in Skyrim, as you mentioned, is.



Wow... that was a hard strawman



This is about the only valid point you have.
Because again, it isn't a "small" feature as you think it is. If it were that easy to do - someone would've made a mod for it already.

As to your second bullet, we've more than one person in here who are professionals. More importantly though, even as a team, do you know what that "team" takes? WAGES! Even if a team of forty programmers could rattle it off in two working days, that's still sixteen hours of pay on forty employees - or 640 hours worth of wages. Plus Q&A work. Plus artists to do new animations. Plus fees to make it available for download. Plus bandwidth. Long story short, it isn't this "fix a small thing" as you seem convinced it is.

No, as has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, it isn't a simple flick of the wrist and presto - everything now works in first-person.

It wasn't a strawman in the slightest. That's pretty much what you said.

So because I structured logical counters to all the main arguements on this page, Im a troll-jackass on roid rage... ok bro.
Considering you've already called everyone with a differing opinion "kiddies" and said "not to bother arguing this point", yeah, he's spot on.

OMGITSJASON
11th Mar 2012, 00:30
So basically you want a Killzone 3 brutal melee system? I get it and you do raise some good ideas but IMO Deus Ex Human Revolution is fine the way it is.

OMGITSJASON
11th Mar 2012, 00:36
Because again, it isn't a "small" feature as you think it is. If it were that easy to do - someone would've made a mod for it already.

As to your second bullet, we've more than one person in here who are professionals. More importantly though, even as a team, do you know what that "team" takes? WAGES! Even if a team of forty programmers could rattle it off in two working days, that's still sixteen hours of pay on forty employees - or 640 hours worth of wages. Plus Q&A work. Plus artists to do new animations. Plus fees to make it available for download. Plus bandwidth. Long story short, it isn't this "fix a small thing" as you seem convinced it is.

No, as has been pointed out to you on multiple occasions, it isn't a simple flick of the wrist and presto - everything now works in first-person.

It wasn't a strawman in the slightest. That's pretty much what you said.

Considering you've already called everyone with a differing opinion "kiddies" and said "not to bother arguing this point", yeah, he's spot on.

I'm a gamer 30 years now and recently video game blogger. Gamers have to understand patches cost money. I seen totals of an average of $25,000 some devs pay for patches. As a gamer its easy to cry and complain about games but understand its money and people's lives involved in these decisions. Act accordingly gamers.