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View Full Version : Eidos and IO, look at the math!!!



fisherboy111
10th Feb 2012, 01:31
Hey guys, I was just doing some quick calculations that show just how put off the fanbase is about the removal of cast/other issue. I know that you guys probably have a reason, but the community feels let down that first off, they didn't see all these changes coming, and second that there seems to be no reason other than "Don't make your judgements yet"...etc etc. seeing a petition where 3000 people signed, we can assume another 3000 will plan on not buying because of the change in cast/music. assuming only 1 out of 3 of those people follow through, that is 1800 people not buying the game. 1800 people at 60$ a person is 108,000$. If it is about money, Eidos and IO shot themselves in the foot with that decision. If I can speak for the community (which I may be wrong, so please correct me) we are not looking for super power mode or slow mo point and shoot mode, we are merely looking for an extension into the Hitman universe with decisions that don't change too much because as seen in long lasting series like Final Fantasy, status quo with new updates and slight modifications to the engine, AI, and the such are how a loyal fanbase is brought about. Do not see these complaints about the decisions as hate or rage, but merely a sense of loyalty that we feel has been taken from us and because of that we are put between a rock and a hard place, buy the series that we all have grown up around, or not buy it in a hope that our love for the series is not soiled. Also guys, read my TL;DR its actually a little different than this long paragraph

TL;DR IO/Eidos has lost at least 108,000$ by not utilizing fan favorite crews, why not utilize what the people want, ultimately that's why companies should be making games, to keep people entertained, right?

BigBoss
10th Feb 2012, 03:06
I'm guessing they lost an estimate closer to infinity trillion dollars

shobhit777777
10th Feb 2012, 05:50
Eidos and IO Don't pay attention to fan-boys judging the quality of the game based on the presence or absence of the Voice actors or the Composer.

We are GAMERS....GAME being the key here. We need to look at the gameplay FIRST and foremost as that is what makes or breaks a game. Absolution looks absolutely set in delivering the perfect 47 experience. Erstwhile missing abilities which were sorely needed (higher agility, proper sneaking mechanics, cover system, better shooting mechanics, better social stealth etc.) are being added to the already innovative and fun Hitman concept.
The Open ended murder-sandboxes are still there according to the Devs (stated at every oppurtunity they get). The new mechanics simply open up new avenues of approach.

Dear Edios and IO
Do consider the new fans Absolution will be bringing in thanks to a deeper gameplay loop and overall better polish....people who were apprehensive of the previous games due to downright mentally challenged AI...and a 47 who had the combat and stealth abilities of a geriatric barber.

fisherboy111
11th Feb 2012, 00:18
I don't agree totally shobhit7777, bloodmoney isn't meant to cater to a large audience and it pretty much has the M-rated stealth/3rd person shooter's covered so bringing in deeper gameplay and polishing it won't open it up to a new audience, it will only make the older audience see some nice addons. While I am thankful for any improvements, I as a buyer and probably many others feel betrayed, its not that the voice acting change or the different voice actors will make the game bad, which I know it won't. It is the fact that you changed a factor because of probably the price of hiring the same voice actor or some other petty reason. Also I have yet to see a response to the notion that he was unceremoniously fired. As a fan I am not only in love with the series, I am in love with everything about the series and am just surprised that you would change something that has no problems with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it! And once again in response to Shobhit its not the change that bothers me but the reason behind the change and lost loyalty i feel due to it.

Miyamoto
11th Feb 2012, 07:59
Hitman sales have dropped steadily with each succeeding title.

Silent Assassin sold about 4 million copies. Contracts about 3 and a quarter (a loss of 18%). Blood money just a little over 2 million (a loss of 25% of the remaining audience).

From a business perspective, if (as you ask) nothing were changed about the game (from the mechanics to the actors) it stands to reason that the trend would continue and they could expect to only sell between 1 to 1.5 million copies. Making changes that they believe will appeal to a larger audience is a calculated risk, one that seems like it will probably pay off.



You don't like it? Fine. You don't want to play the game? Fine, don't buy it.

But don't stand up on your soapbox pretending that one tenth of one percent of the fans signing an online petition is "the first blow" in a crusade.

shobhit777777
11th Feb 2012, 08:21
I don't agree totally shobhit7777, bloodmoney isn't meant to cater to a large audience and it pretty much has the M-rated stealth/3rd person shooter's covered so bringing in deeper gameplay and polishing it won't open it up to a new audience, it will only make the older audience see some nice addons. While I am thankful for any improvements, I as a buyer and probably many others feel betrayed, its not that the voice acting change or the different voice actors will make the game bad, which I know it won't. It is the fact that you changed a factor because of probably the price of hiring the same voice actor or some other petty reason. Also I have yet to see a response to the notion that he was unceremoniously fired. As a fan I am not only in love with the series, I am in love with everything about the series and am just surprised that you would change something that has no problems with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it! And once again in response to Shobhit its not the change that bothers me but the reason behind the change and lost loyalty i feel due to it.

Incorrect. All of the Hitman games had serious gameplay issues which drove off potential buyers..problems which are even recognised by Hardcore fans. Unrealistic social stealth mechanics, AI which would oscillate from Paranoid lethal to downright retarded, poor animations, inability to approach the game in an old school sneaking fashion (good old MGS/SC style gameplay of sneaking about) clunky shooting, limited character abilities.
Blood Money certainly addressed the above to a certain extent...but Absolution looks set to totally rectify the problems.
I have personally seen my friends (ALL fans of the stealth genre mind you) who criticised the games for the same reasons and never really got into it.

I can agree with you that SE's handling of the 'Bateson Problem' was disastrous at best...but all we have heard is one side of the argument. We do not know what went down behind the scenes....so I'd rather not comment on it.

As a fan I focus only on the game....the voice actors and the soundtrack although tremendously important are secondary. Besides who are we to judge when we haven't seen/heard either of those.

Point is....Absolution is not only the best move in terms of gameplay it would make the most sense commercially for IO.

fisherboy111
11th Feb 2012, 20:37
I see your point and agree with most of it, however I am going back to my original arguement that loyal fans, the bulk of Hitmans fanbase see it as traitorous to change their series of games that they know of as stealthy, patient games into a fast paced, games where characters have almost superpowers.

shobhit777777
12th Feb 2012, 06:27
I see your point and agree with most of it, however I am going back to my original arguement that loyal fans, the bulk of Hitmans fanbase see it as traitorous to change their series of games that they know of as stealthy, patient games into a fast paced, games where characters have almost superpowers.

Ok. Now let me ask you a question:

Which game do you think might offer a deeper stealth experience:

Blood Money: A stupid binary AI, 47 unable to fully utilise his environment apart from a few scripted locations, poor shooting mechanics, unrealistic social stealth mechanics, absence of proper sneaking stealth gameplay due to insufficient mechanics.

or

Absolution: A smarter more dynamic AI with better awareness, Higher character agility that allows YOU to get into advantageous positions or infiltrate areas, beefed up shooting mechanics to allow players satisfying silenced pistol shots and also enabling an aggro stealth approach...no more blown stealth situations due to inaccuracy or clunky shooting, revamped social stealth with proper focus on 'Blending in', ability to sneak in a proper manner using cover and dispatching foes with the new CQC moves.

There are no changes to the formula, only additions...additions that fans should understand and appreciate.

I'll give you a real life example:
Fans of Splinter Cell detested Conviction (not all but a vocal majority) due to its emphasis on lethal takedowns and absence of stealth staples like body dragging, noise sensitivity etc.
People complained it doesn't require planning or patience or tactics. They couldn't be more wrong.
See Conviction is a FAR MORE TACTICAL STEALTH game than its predecessors!
the reasons are:

1. A Smarter AI...with massive numerical superiority. The AI shifts from stealth game to a TPS game all the while delivering an enjoyable experience. Add to that random patrol routes and variation in positions you have a fresh experience everytime.

2. Higher character agility- the player can now interact with the environment in many ways and move around to position him/herself. This opens up tonnes of new gameplay possibilities...each approach allowing you to craft your playstyle

3. A CQB system- While not a new addition to SC...the ramped up CQC abilities really add a visual punch and at the same time allow more aggressive strategies..

4. Better shooting mechanics- It is extremely important in a stealth game that you can shoot accurately and from a myriad of different positions...this allows the player to engage enemies further away or in tricky spots with confidence in his shots.

5. X-ray vision- It is imperative in a game like Conviction, with dense environments and massive amounts of AI NPCs, to have a feature which allows you to keep track of them all. It is not a cheat..it is a much needed feature which reduces the frustration and rage times. It enables you to keep an eye on the overall picture and is totally optional so that you can CHOOSE

See all of the above combines to make Conviction a game wherein I (If I choose to do so...) can sit back in the shadows....check out how many guards there are...what are their routes and routines...identify the priority targets (guys with heavy weapons or loners)...determine a kill order...and then execute my plan to perfection. This entails more patience, tactical thinking, planning and observation than the all the previous games combined.
In the previous games all you ever had were 1-3 blind guards.

tl;dr : Conviction and Absolution share similar roots, gameplay and mechanics...and Splinter Cell Conviction is MORE tactical than the previous games thanks to the mechanics that are also being incorporated in Absolution.
Have faith.

fisherboy111
12th Feb 2012, 15:35
First off, I see what you are saying and I am excited about all those except for 5, and hopefully the studio will be smart enough not to make that special power bar/skill/limited amount usage tied to other skills like instant kill. I agree that gameplay and AI will be the best, but to change what isn't broken just feels wrong. Especially if the company thinks that is a way to cut costs, i think it will end up hurting them in the longrun.

HaroldsHell
15th Feb 2012, 06:25
What I noticed is people like fisherboy and game company's that listen to the "wrong fans" make crap choices when developing the games. snobhit has it right, A mature and true fan. I loved every HITMAN game even with all the glitches and AI problems. Who really cares about voice acting and the score (Jasper Kid is still a beast). I know I want more ways to kill, a deeper story and great level design and tighter mechanics. Hitman will sell and most likely better then before. I doubt you (fisherboy) have a degree in business and you probably only played Hitman Blood Money.