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saladinos
29th Dec 2011, 12:48
guys, this has probably been posted so sorry if i was making the same thread again.

i thought of something and the minute i did i registered to this site to share my idea with everyone. What if there was an online Deus Ex mmo rpg ? like matrix ? with all the features of DX 1 such as skills ec.... and the graphics of DX human revolution wouldn't it be amazing ? please share your opinion and i apologize again if this has already been previously discussed.

sonicsidewinder
29th Dec 2011, 15:05
You just went were no man should go...

saladinos
29th Dec 2011, 18:17
You just went were no man should go...

is that bad ?

Darthassin
29th Dec 2011, 19:06
is that bad ?

Short answer: yes.

saladinos
29th Dec 2011, 19:09
why lol ?

Zoet
29th Dec 2011, 19:37
why lol ?
The devs actually answered this very same question recently, here (http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/EMP-Minisode6).
For myself as a single-player fan, the very idea of a multiplayer, or even co-op focussed DX:HR sequel or spin-off is a bit scary. Basically I don't want to see this series that I have become a massive fan of to turn to what is for me the 'dark side'.:p I guess many others around here also think that the series should remain single player, as changing that could mean changing the essence of the series.
However, if I was an MMO fan, I imagine that a DX or cyberpunk themed one would be something that I would really, really want. Listen to the mini podcast I linked. Do you, as an MMO player agree with the dev's given answer?

Tverdyj
29th Dec 2011, 20:35
I'm sure to be biased, since I don't play MMOs.

however, the basic impression I get is that the essence of MMOs is grinding. and killing stuff.

on a purely mechanics level, I don't see how you can adapt DX (esp the original, with its rigid emphasis on multi-pathing that did not require combat) towards a grind-based genre.

saladinos
29th Dec 2011, 20:51
well it could be an MMO based on DX with all the augmentations and skills stuff, besides if we manage to somehow make it a combination of both matrix online and APB and everyone would choose their playing style, be it solo or collaborate with other players, i think it would become a huge success if they were to create something like that.

lowenz
29th Dec 2011, 23:02
Way
Too
Dangerous

For the brand :D

68_pie
30th Dec 2011, 00:53
guys, this has probably been posted so sorry if i was making the same thread again.

i thought of something and the minute i did i registered to this site to share my idea with everyone. What if there was an online Deus Ex mmo rpg ? like matrix ? with all the features of DX 1 such as skills ec.... and the graphics of DX human revolution wouldn't it be amazing ? please share your opinion and i apologize again if this has already been previously discussed.

That sounds about as horrific as Transformers 2.

MaxxQ1
30th Dec 2011, 00:56
I also admit to bias, as I don't do online play of anything.

That said, I agree with what everyone here has said.

I love the series as a whole, even if I like to pretend InvisiWar doesn't exist, and I'd hate to see it cheapened by making it an MMO, or even co-op game. I could offer reasons, but it would be pretty insulting to those that *do* enjoy MMOs and co-ops.

JCpies
30th Dec 2011, 11:53
I don't think it would work very well. It would be hard to balance all the qualities of a Deus Ex game with the qualities of an MMO, and attract the hardcore MMO crowd.

I can understand the appeal for a Deus Ex game where you can interact with real people but I don't think it could work on a massive scale.

ColBashar
30th Dec 2011, 16:20
Listening to the podcast I don't really buy the answer that a Deus Ex title inherently has to be driven by its story. It just sounds like they wanted to make a particular game, an MMO wasn't it and I can respect that. To answer the question at hand, though, I place a greater emphasis on the gameplay mechanics. In Deus Ex's case I think these could be translated to an online environment. Being a tactical shooter-***-RPG there wouldn't be much of a stretch in terms of interface and viscereal experience since most MMOs are either shooters or RPGs. Also, one thing that Deus Ex and MMOs in general have in common is a strong emphasis on exploration.

I think that there's a very heavy bias for people to interpret "MMO" as "WoW". So if we're talking about adapting Deus Ex into a World of Warcraft clone then, yeah, I agree with everyone who has already stated that it would cheapen the brand. But if we're talking about a multiplayer tactical shooter set in a fully or semi persistent world then I think the idea of setting it in the Deus Ex universe is intriguing.

I don't know if anybody here is familiar with Starsiege Tribes. It wasn't an MMO but it was a multiplayer-only tactical shooter. The reason I bring it up is that I remember a mod that introduced a persistent experience system that would carry over between maps which was tied to a series of unlocks allowing players to diversity their character. Tribes doesn't have Deus Ex's story but it did give credence to the notion that a shooter with RPG elements in a multiplayer environment can work.

As for a Deus Ex themed MMO, I wouldn't mind a game where players adopted the role of mercenaries who would accept missions from various in game factions (UNATCO, NSF, MJ12, Silhouette, etc) for experience and cash to upgrade skills and buy equipment and augmentations. These missions would basically model the Deus Ex style but with the exception of being a little bigger, a little more complex, and a little more difficult to account for the fact that there will be multiple players working jointly as a team. Basically "instances" to use WoW-speak but designed with an emphasis on stealth and tactical planning instead of killing and healing.

For people interested in PvP there might be a large no-mans-land map where players would fight for control of territory/resources on behalf of their faction or guild. This kind of gameplay not beyond the realm of possibility for a Deus Ex title when you take into account that the GOTY edition of the original game included multiplayer arena maps. I never played on them myself but from what I hear they were pretty good. And, again, I don't think story need be the driving force of the game so long as it remains true to the Deus Ex world.

You could even have specialised missions where one person plays the role of their character, an augmented agent, while five or so other players assume the role of NPC guards trying to stop him from infiltrating their base. Perhaps the role of guard doesn't appeal to everyone but for my part I think it would be interesting trying to work as a team with other players to find and terminate a super agent by following his trail of bodies, disabled cameras, objects moved out of place and other clues. The sort of intuitive thinking required for that kind of mission, an almost counter-DX, is difficult to integrate in an AI.

So I think there is a lot of opportunity for Deus Ex to branch into multiplayer gaming, regardless of whether Eidos Montreal is interested in pursuing them. As to whether you could make a good Deus Ex MMO, though, I see three major challenges:

1) Size. A lot more effort goes into building a Deus Ex map than a World of Warcraft map. Even if you recycle instances, making the challenges dynamic depending on the number and strength of players participating in it, there would still be a tremendous amount of work needed to build a Deus Ex MMO. And as stated in the podcast, the work would never really end, though I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

2) Economy. Deus Ex's economy was never really sophisticated but it never really needed to be. One thing that it always emphasized, though, was scarcity. How do you maintain that scarcity while still rewarding players for achieving goals? In Deus Ex this isn't a problem because after 40 hours you start over from scratch. When you have players on an MMO who have been active upwards of 40 days, you're going to start to see a stark disparity in players' wealth.

3) Death. In Deus Ex, player death is easy to deal with: you just reload your last save. Care would have to go in to determining how to deal with death in a matter that is both realistic enough to fit in Deus Ex's gritty theme while maintaining the players' enjoyment. If death is too restrictive it makes the game unrewarding, if it's too lenient then it forces the player to suspend disbelief.

I think it's possible to make an MMO worthy of the Deus Ex name but it would require a lot of consideration of how to fit all the pieces together. Moreover, as has already been mentioned by another poster, it probably wouldn't generate the same kind of income as a WoW clone. Short of a Howard Hughes personality, I don't see anybody investing the kind of money required to make it work when there are more profitable ventures available.

post script:
Oh for goodness sakes! "***" is -Latin- and you're censoring it on me?! Even in its vernacular is it really that offensive?

Olgerth Heidern
30th Dec 2011, 16:55
No, no, no, no, no.

The greatest way to ruin a good single player franchise is to make it into an MMO.

Tverdyj
30th Dec 2011, 21:20
Listening to the podcast I don't really buy the answer that a Deus Ex title inherently has to be driven by its story. It just sounds like they wanted to make a particular game, an MMO wasn't it and I can respect that. To answer the question at hand, though, I place a greater emphasis on the gameplay mechanics. In Deus Ex's case I think these could be translated to an online environment. Being a tactical shooter-***-RPG there wouldn't be much of a stretch in terms of interface and viscereal experience since most MMOs are either shooters or RPGs. Also, one thing that Deus Ex and MMOs in general have in common is a strong emphasis on exploration.

I think that there's a very heavy bias for people to interpret "MMO" as "WoW". So if we're talking about adapting Deus Ex into a World of Warcraft clone then, yeah, I agree with everyone who has already stated that it would cheapen the brand. But if we're talking about a multiplayer tactical shooter set in a fully or semi persistent world then I think the idea of setting it in the Deus Ex universe is intriguing.

I don't know if anybody here is familiar with Starsiege Tribes. It wasn't an MMO but it was a multiplayer-only tactical shooter. The reason I bring it up is that I remember a mod that introduced a persistent experience system that would carry over between maps which was tied to a series of unlocks allowing players to diversity their character. Tribes doesn't have Deus Ex's story but it did give credence to the notion that a shooter with RPG elements in a multiplayer environment can work.

As for a Deus Ex themed MMO, I wouldn't mind a game where players adopted the role of mercenaries who would accept missions from various in game factions (UNATCO, NSF, MJ12, Silhouette, etc) for experience and cash to upgrade skills and buy equipment and augmentations. These missions would basically model the Deus Ex style but with the exception of being a little bigger, a little more complex, and a little more difficult to account for the fact that there will be multiple players working jointly as a team. Basically "instances" to use WoW-speak but designed with an emphasis on stealth and tactical planning instead of killing and healing.

For people interested in PvP there might be a large no-mans-land map where players would fight for control of territory/resources on behalf of their faction or guild. This kind of gameplay not beyond the realm of possibility for a Deus Ex title when you take into account that the GOTY edition of the original game included multiplayer arena maps. I never played on them myself but from what I hear they were pretty good. And, again, I don't think story need be the driving force of the game so long as it remains true to the Deus Ex world.

You could even have specialised missions where one person plays the role of their character, an augmented agent, while five or so other players assume the role of NPC guards trying to stop him from infiltrating their base. Perhaps the role of guard doesn't appeal to everyone but for my part I think it would be interesting trying to work as a team with other players to find and terminate a super agent by following his trail of bodies, disabled cameras, objects moved out of place and other clues. The sort of intuitive thinking required for that kind of mission, an almost counter-DX, is difficult to integrate in an AI.

So I think there is a lot of opportunity for Deus Ex to branch into multiplayer gaming, regardless of whether Eidos Montreal is interested in pursuing them. As to whether you could make a good Deus Ex MMO, though, I see three major challenges:

1) Size. A lot more effort goes into building a Deus Ex map than a World of Warcraft map. Even if you recycle instances, making the challenges dynamic depending on the number and strength of players participating in it, there would still be a tremendous amount of work needed to build a Deus Ex MMO. And as stated in the podcast, the work would never really end, though I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

2) Economy. Deus Ex's economy was never really sophisticated but it never really needed to be. One thing that it always emphasized, though, was scarcity. How do you maintain that scarcity while still rewarding players for achieving goals? In Deus Ex this isn't a problem because after 40 hours you start over from scratch. When you have players on an MMO who have been active upwards of 40 days, you're going to start to see a stark disparity in players' wealth.

3) Death. In Deus Ex, player death is easy to deal with: you just reload your last save. Care would have to go in to determining how to deal with death in a matter that is both realistic enough to fit in Deus Ex's gritty theme while maintaining the players' enjoyment. If death is too restrictive it makes the game unrewarding, if it's too lenient then it forces the player to suspend disbelief.

I think it's possible to make an MMO worthy of the Deus Ex name but it would require a lot of consideration of how to fit all the pieces together. Moreover, as has already been mentioned by another poster, it probably wouldn't generate the same kind of income as a WoW clone. Short of a Howard Hughes personality, I don't see anybody investing the kind of money required to make it work when there are more profitable ventures available.

post script:
Oh for goodness sakes! "***" is -Latin- and you're censoring it on me?! Even in its vernacular is it really that offensive?

this is a good argument.
however

it misses the point. The OP wanted to incorporate original DX mechanics.
one of the biggest things about the original, one of the things that set it apart from almost every game out there. Was the fact that you could play the entire game without violent confrontation.

turning the game into an MMO tactical shooter would pretty much scrap that aspect of DX. Sure if you want a tactical shooter where people can use augs, then sure. DX multiplayer is all about that, if i'm not mistaken.

but really, you're delving more into System Shock/Bioshock and less of DX with that line of thinking.

nomotog
31st Dec 2011, 16:16
Listening to the podcast I don't really buy the answer that a Deus Ex title inherently has to be driven by its story. It just sounds like they wanted to make a particular game, an MMO wasn't it and I can respect that. To answer the question at hand, though, I place a greater emphasis on the gameplay mechanics. In Deus Ex's case I think these could be translated to an online environment. Being a tactical shooter-***-RPG there wouldn't be much of a stretch in terms of interface and viscereal experience since most MMOs are either shooters or RPGs. Also, one thing that Deus Ex and MMOs in general have in common is a strong emphasis on exploration.

I think that there's a very heavy bias for people to interpret "MMO" as "WoW". So if we're talking about adapting Deus Ex into a World of Warcraft clone then, yeah, I agree with everyone who has already stated that it would cheapen the brand. But if we're talking about a multiplayer tactical shooter set in a fully or semi persistent world then I think the idea of setting it in the Deus Ex universe is intriguing.

I don't know if anybody here is familiar with Starsiege Tribes. It wasn't an MMO but it was a multiplayer-only tactical shooter. The reason I bring it up is that I remember a mod that introduced a persistent experience system that would carry over between maps which was tied to a series of unlocks allowing players to diversity their character. Tribes doesn't have Deus Ex's story but it did give credence to the notion that a shooter with RPG elements in a multiplayer environment can work.

As for a Deus Ex themed MMO, I wouldn't mind a game where players adopted the role of mercenaries who would accept missions from various in game factions (UNATCO, NSF, MJ12, Silhouette, etc) for experience and cash to upgrade skills and buy equipment and augmentations. These missions would basically model the Deus Ex style but with the exception of being a little bigger, a little more complex, and a little more difficult to account for the fact that there will be multiple players working jointly as a team. Basically "instances" to use WoW-speak but designed with an emphasis on stealth and tactical planning instead of killing and healing.

For people interested in PvP there might be a large no-mans-land map where players would fight for control of territory/resources on behalf of their faction or guild. This kind of gameplay not beyond the realm of possibility for a Deus Ex title when you take into account that the GOTY edition of the original game included multiplayer arena maps. I never played on them myself but from what I hear they were pretty good. And, again, I don't think story need be the driving force of the game so long as it remains true to the Deus Ex world.

You could even have specialised missions where one person plays the role of their character, an augmented agent, while five or so other players assume the role of NPC guards trying to stop him from infiltrating their base. Perhaps the role of guard doesn't appeal to everyone but for my part I think it would be interesting trying to work as a team with other players to find and terminate a super agent by following his trail of bodies, disabled cameras, objects moved out of place and other clues. The sort of intuitive thinking required for that kind of mission, an almost counter-DX, is difficult to integrate in an AI.

So I think there is a lot of opportunity for Deus Ex to branch into multiplayer gaming, regardless of whether Eidos Montreal is interested in pursuing them. As to whether you could make a good Deus Ex MMO, though, I see three major challenges:

1) Size. A lot more effort goes into building a Deus Ex map than a World of Warcraft map. Even if you recycle instances, making the challenges dynamic depending on the number and strength of players participating in it, there would still be a tremendous amount of work needed to build a Deus Ex MMO. And as stated in the podcast, the work would never really end, though I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

2) Economy. Deus Ex's economy was never really sophisticated but it never really needed to be. One thing that it always emphasized, though, was scarcity. How do you maintain that scarcity while still rewarding players for achieving goals? In Deus Ex this isn't a problem because after 40 hours you start over from scratch. When you have players on an MMO who have been active upwards of 40 days, you're going to start to see a stark disparity in players' wealth.

3) Death. In Deus Ex, player death is easy to deal with: you just reload your last save. Care would have to go in to determining how to deal with death in a matter that is both realistic enough to fit in Deus Ex's gritty theme while maintaining the players' enjoyment. If death is too restrictive it makes the game unrewarding, if it's too lenient then it forces the player to suspend disbelief.

I think it's possible to make an MMO worthy of the Deus Ex name but it would require a lot of consideration of how to fit all the pieces together. Moreover, as has already been mentioned by another poster, it probably wouldn't generate the same kind of income as a WoW clone. Short of a Howard Hughes personality, I don't see anybody investing the kind of money required to make it work when there are more profitable ventures available.

post script:
Oh for goodness sakes! "***" is -Latin- and you're censoring it on me?! Even in its vernacular is it really that offensive?

I had more or less the same sentiment last time this topic jumped up. You don't want to just re-skin Wow with cyborgs. You want to take the essence of DX ,the handle it how you want attitude, and throw that into a online persistent world.

Saerain
1st Jan 2012, 09:59
I dearly wish for a co-op RPG or MMO in the vein of Deus Ex, but I'd rather it not be Deus Ex, simply because there's a certain flavor to the gameplay of this franchise that would be lost without the solitude.

You should instead join me in evangelizing for an Eclipse Phase (http://eclipsephase.com/) MMO. :naughty:

nomotog
1st Jan 2012, 23:00
The agency could have made a nice DX mmo. They had stealth combat and social gameplay all mixing together, but the publisher killed it.

Saerain
3rd Jan 2012, 02:58
For the better, I think. SOE's resources were being spread too thin to do The Agency and PlanetSide 2 and the next EverQuest.

nomotog
3rd Jan 2012, 05:58
For the better, I think. SOE's resources were being spread too thin to do The Agency and PlanetSide 2 and the next EverQuest.

Ya I guess. If you look closely, the game never had a chance. It actually looked like they where planing on lunching with something like 10 missions. Still it would have been the most original mmo they ever made.

thedosbox
9th Jan 2012, 22:50
I could offer reasons, but it would be pretty insulting to those that *do* enjoy MMOs and co-ops.

LOL - you mean monetization of obsessive compulsive disorder? :p

MaxxQ1
10th Jan 2012, 06:44
LOL - you mean monetization of obsessive compulsive disorder? :p

I hadn't thought of that.

I actually had more written here, but no matter how I couched it, I would have still come across as insulting, so I'll just leave things as they are and keep my fingers still.