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GreyMasker
24th Dec 2011, 12:25
So is there really no other way to get into Penn's computer other than hacking it? You should be able to solve any problem in a Deus Ex game with any skillset, only been playing it for a bit but I'm quite disappointed by this.

Goodfeller
25th Dec 2011, 08:58
Can't remember anything about captain Penn, but as a general rule it's best if the first 3 or 4 praxis points go into hacking because that's probably where most of your experience points in the game will come from (funnily enough). Infact the game rewards you so much for hacking that it becomes pointless using found passwords. Plus hacking locked apartments, garages etc also provides you with lots of loot.

xaduha
25th Dec 2011, 12:32
I see it as a problem...
A GEP gun. I don't know about you, but I used it primarily on locked doors.

But in DX:HR
1) There isn't enough destructible doors
2) But if they were destructible there is just too many of them, too many locked doors. And explosives are scarce*

EDIT: *I forgot about a revolver with the explosive rounds mod! Not so scarce then.

brangdon
29th Dec 2011, 16:05
You should be able to solve any problem in a Deus Ex game with any skillset, Well, no. Deus Ex is about choices and the consequences of those choices. Sometimes the consequence is that you can't do what you want with what you've now got. There are side quests that need hacking level 3 to complete.


Can't remember anything about captain Penn, but as a general rule it's best if the first 3 or 4 praxis points go into hacking because that's probably where most of your experience points in the game will come from (funnily enough).Hacking can be a praxis-point sink if you let it. The early hacks are pretty easy, or else inessential, or else have passwords available, so it may be better to put early points into other areas - such as jumping, breaking weak walls, lifting heavy objects, to name a few that are pretty fundamental. I usually get to level 3 before I leave Detroit, and there is an argument for getting to level 5 by then, but that's relatively late.

As I recall, you get 50 points for hacking a level 2 device, so you have to do it 100 times to pay back one praxis point. It's not that many points really, and if you spend all your time hacking the game can get a bit tedious.

GreyMasker
31st Dec 2011, 11:39
Well, no. Deus Ex is about choices and the consequences of those choices. Sometimes the consequence is that you can't do what you want with what you've now got. There are side quests that need hacking level 3 to complete.


Well, yes. I agree that the plot of Deus Ex is indeed about choices and from that perspective the game is excellent but from a pure gameplay standpoint Deus Ex is about being about to accomplish a task by using many different means. One solution to a problem is not acceptable.

pukster
2nd Jan 2012, 20:45
I see it as a problem...
A GEP gun. I don't know about you, but I used it primarily on locked doors.

But in DX:HR
1) There isn't enough destructible doors
2) But if they were destructible there is just too many of them, too many locked doors. And explosives are scarce*

EDIT: *I forgot about a revolver with the explosive rounds mod! Not so scarce then.

The world was not thoroughly enough tested. If it was, the developers would have balanced things out like

More explosives
More revolver ammo/rocket ammo
Less pistol ammo
More grenades
Larger environments for sniping/ blowing open doors


The environments in HR were big, but they didn't feel big. Compare the FEMA base to the Pasadena Ocean Lab (http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Pasadena_Ocean_Lab). In the former if you snipe someone, dozens of soldiers are alerted. In the latter, the base is more spread out, so it's easier to snipe soldiers on patrol when they are looking the other way (note, there is also a sniper which makes DX way cooler than HR)

pukster
2nd Jan 2012, 20:47
...Infact the game rewards you so much for hacking that it becomes pointless using found passwords...

They needed less incentives for hacking and more disincentives.

tZer
3rd Jan 2012, 13:09
Unlocking device anyone?

xaduha
3rd Jan 2012, 15:23
AUDs are a part of a problem. No comparison to DXs multitools and lockpicks at all.
And a DLC item to boot. I thought they were just not available from the start or something, but there are no AUDs or blue explosive packs in a "vanilla" version of the game. Crippled version more like it.

pukster
4th Jan 2012, 00:28
AUDs are a part of a problem. No comparison to DXs multitools and lockpicks at all.
And a DLC item to boot. I thought they were just not available from the start or something, but there are no AUDs or blue explosive packs in a "vanilla" version of the game. Crippled version more like it.

That's why I couldn't find them. I was also pissed that I had to pay to get the silencer for the sniper rifle. They should just sell a blank CD and then you can pay them for individual textures and .cpp files. I think the gaming industry's utopia would be gamers paying them for the privilege of coding their game for them.

Goodfeller
4th Jan 2012, 08:58
More explosives
More revolver ammo/rocket ammo
Less pistol ammo
More grenades
Larger environments for sniping/ blowing open doors



Couldn't agree more.

There's a scarcity of mines and grenades which I find pretty annoying. Probably only about a dozen of each can be bought, recovered or looted throughout the entire game.

Also why do the traders and arms dealers have to be such a one shot deal ? You buy everything you need and they never re-stock after that.

pukster
4th Jan 2012, 10:06
Couldn't agree more.

There's a scarcity of mines and grenades which I find pretty annoying. Probably only about a dozen of each can be bought, recovered or looted throughout the entire game.

Also why do the traders and arms dealers have to be such a one shot deal ? You buy everything you need and they never re-stock after that.

I think it's the fact that games are so much more taxing to make now. They can no longer make a level, test it, and redesign it. Instead they make it the best they can, then they are stuck with it. They probably had that restocking option for arms traders, then there was too much money, and they just didn't have time to tweak it.

I also miss all the cool ways you got ammo in DX: killing people, taking it from engineers, clearing sentries, paying someone for the location of an arms dealer...In HR it's like "oh look, three brothers standing around in an abandoned parking lot. I wonder what they are doing".

68_pie
4th Jan 2012, 14:40
You should be able to solve any problem in a Deus Ex game with any skillset, only been playing it for a bit but I'm quite disappointed by this.

No, you should be able to solve any main objective with any skill set. It absolutely makes sense that some of the rewards should be limited to particular skills and augs. There were plenty of tangible and experience based rewards that were dependant on having extra jump height, increased strength and, yes, hacking not to mention others. This has been the case in all Deus Ex games.


There's a scarcity of mines and grenades which I find pretty annoying. Probably only about a dozen of each can be bought, recovered or looted throughout the entire game.

Also why do the traders and arms dealers have to be such a one shot deal ? You buy everything you need and they never re-stock after that.

I finished the game absolutely swimming in grenades, typhoon ammo, energy bars and health packs (kept saving them in case they were needed but not really). I found them pretty well balanced.

And as to traders I would say balance and realism.

pukster
5th Jan 2012, 00:33
I finished the game absolutely swimming in grenades, typhoon ammo, energy bars and health packs (kept saving them in case they were needed but not really). I found them pretty well balanced.

And as to traders I would say balance and realism.

There are health packs in the game?

The batteries suck because only one recharges so I never saw the point of charging the others, and your health recharges too so I never saw the point of pain killers or what not. I just stop caring and used them as soon as I got them just so they wouldn't use up inventory space. The typhoon system drove me up the wall with that ridonculous cut scene every time so I never used it. But I still felt like DX gave more explosives and provided you with situations to use it to, for example, blast down doors without being caught.

68_pie
5th Jan 2012, 02:33
There are health packs in the game?

The batteries suck because only one recharges so I never saw the point of charging the others, and your health recharges too so I never saw the point of pain killers or what not. I just stop caring and used them as soon as I got them just so they wouldn't use up inventory space. The typhoon system drove me up the wall with that ridonculous cut scene every time so I never used it. But I still felt like DX gave more explosives and provided you with situations to use it to, for example, blast down doors without being caught.

Don't be obtuse, you know I meant painkillers.

The devs said ages ago that in an early build all the cells recharged but playtesters just spammed takedowns so the batteries were nerfed.

I just used the Typhoon to remove the annoyance of bosses.

pukster
5th Jan 2012, 05:34
Don't be obtuse, you know I meant painkillers.
I wasn't trying to be, err... obtuse. I just haven't played it in a few months so I forgot.


The devs said ages ago that in an early build all the cells recharged but playtesters just spammed takedowns so the batteries were nerfed.

I can understand that, but it's still their fault for making that awful takedown in the first place.


I just used the Typhoon to remove the annoyance of bosses.
It's not really a weapon you use regularly (like the machine gun), so I would forget about it. It's good to use when your inventory is full of typhoon ammo, and you are out of space, and you just use it 15 times in a row =P

Goodfeller
6th Jan 2012, 00:48
Hacking can be a praxis-point sink if you let it.

Not really. You can upgrade to level 5 and still have jumping, breaking walls and heavy lifting by the time you've finished detroit. It all depends on what order you apply the upgrades in. If you restrict yourself to level 3 hacking by the time you've completed detroit, you'll miss out on a free Praxis kit you can get with a level 5 hacking skill. Not to mention a handful of other goodies which would otherwise remain unavailable to you early game. Of course that still leaves you with a Praxis point deficit, but it's still worth it IMO.

Goodfeller
6th Jan 2012, 01:10
I finished the game absolutely swimming in grenades,

Same here. But that's just because I kept hoarding the stuff because I knew if I used them up I was going to find it difficult to get my hands on any more.

pukster
6th Jan 2012, 06:49
Same here. But that's just because I kept hoarding the stuff because I knew if I used them up I was going to find it difficult to get my hands on any more.

In video games it's very hard to encourage ppl to use their items. Half Life 1 for example health stations were few and far between so I would reload a fight a dozen times to minimize damage. To my knowledge only one game has perfected this art, and that's F.E.A.R. 1 b/c they had so many health packs that you use them all the time, but the firefights are so intense that you have to use them (9 med pack limits). Also, they got rid of ammo and just had weapons, so you don't lug around weapons for the entire game then find ammo for it IMMEDIATELY after you toss the gun. In F.E.A.R. when you are out of ammo, you just drop it and pick up something else.

xaduha
6th Jan 2012, 11:14
Yep, there are melee weapons, for scrooges like us :lol:
In other games >:[
Or just infinite/no ammo weapon(s).

brangdon
7th Jan 2012, 15:58
Not really. You can upgrade to level 5 and still have jumping, breaking walls and heavy lifting by the time you've finished detroit. It all depends on what order you apply the upgrades in.Yes, that's what I said. That there is an argument for getting level 5 before leaving Detroit. However, even if you do use four points that way, they shouldn't be the first four points you spend. I'd go for jumping etc earlier. And even after those, there are other augs worth having. (Eg EMP resistance, which is essential later and useful in Detroit.)

And you can spend a lot more than four points on hacking. There's Fortify and Stealth, both of which help, not to mention the one that tells you what the nodes contain, which I've never got but would sometimes be useful when deciding whether its worth it.


There's a scarcity of mines and grenades which I find pretty annoying. Probably only about a dozen of each can be bought, recovered or looted throughout the entire game.Much depends on play style. Generally I prefer stealth, and that usually means I have more explosives than I know what to do with.

One time I decided to avoid petty theft. I'd only steal money from bad guys, not from my co-workers or police or shops. Why should having augs negate basic morality? I found money got so scarce that I couldn't afford to buy the the Limb praxis kits, and was having to farm weapons.


The batteries suck because only one recharges so I never saw the point of charging the others, and your health recharges too so I never saw the point of pain killers or what not. I just stop caring and used them as soon as I got them just so they wouldn't use up inventory space.Again, it's a matter of play style. The armour aug reduces damage by nearly 50%, and painkillers can increase your health to 200%, so you can go into a fight and take nearly 4 times as much damage. I'd like more combat-related augs, but the game does offer some options.