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Vasarto
25th Oct 2011, 00:18
So if Deus Ex HR is a prequal to the DX1 game. Than Figuring in what the world is like in DX1 "Not technology included"
At least when it comes to vehicles etc. Cuz we all know why the seemingly higher tech of HR exists because of the gap between games and real world tech evolving so fast etc.

Anyway, Based on the other stuff like the way the world seems to be going and all the wars and political stuff in DX and what DXHR had. What do you think DXHR's Cannon Ending to the Series would be?

We all know its about choice but no matter what the choice is when it comes to games with a timeline. One is supreme and the correct path as far as the actual story goes.

I am thinking it is the one where they limit research on Human Evolution. The Illuminati ending I think it is.
It seems that all augs in DX are limited to criminals and EX U.S military or other high end organizations.
Some have Mechanical but in DX1 I am guessing that mechanical augs are still here and there but not expanded or a normal thing if they had been unlimited by the government like what David Sarif wanted (And myself).

I am not sure about the others. I don't think he could had just blown everything up. What do you guys think?

sonicsidewinder
25th Oct 2011, 01:43
Only a sequel can really tell.

But i'm willing to believe the Illuminati ending.

I've only played through the game once, fully, and that was the ending I chose.

It felt 'right' in terms of how the story would continue into DX.

Yeah... let it be the Illuminati.

Kodaemon
25th Oct 2011, 03:36
There are no cannons in any of the endings.

drunkrussian9
25th Oct 2011, 03:41
I think a sequel will reveal that Eliza played you at the end, and the buttons were meaningless...

mad825
25th Oct 2011, 04:09
All of them are cannon ;)

Kodaemon
25th Oct 2011, 04:31
Please, people, there's really a difference between canon and cannons.

VectorM
25th Oct 2011, 04:59
You played longer than all of us, why are you the one asking this?

Zoet
25th Oct 2011, 05:25
I think a sequel will reveal that Eliza played you at the end, and the buttons were meaningless...

^This is my suspicion too.

DXeXodus
25th Oct 2011, 05:46
I think a sequel will reveal that Eliza played you at the end, and the buttons were meaningless...

That would certainly be a major slap in the face.

I'd put my money on the Illuminati ending as well, at least until we play a sequel anyway.

Romeo
25th Oct 2011, 06:18
There are no cannons in any of the endings.
Damn it, you beat me to it. To the OP, "canon" was the term you were looking for. I think the "explode absolutely everything" ending makes the most sense. Sarif and TYM aren't present in DX. Nor is Haggart. Nor Humanity Front. And while the Illumnati ending said augs would be restricted, humanity would call for restrictions on augs after the information that was released from Panchaea as well. Which ending fulfills all those requirements? Bingo - 'Splosion-Fest 2027.

PugPug
25th Oct 2011, 06:20
I would say, given that the purity movement vanished during DX1, the Sarif ending. It did return in Invisible War, but something caused it to disappear during DX1. Denton would have heard something about it.

Romeo
25th Oct 2011, 07:04
Well, with most of Humanity Front's leadership dead/gone (Haggart being dead, Sandoval being dead or disenfrachised), the Panchaea ending essentially ensures they would disappear for a while. Sarif's ending also ensures that, and by stretching the truth, you could say the Illumnati ending would eliminate Humanity Front (Once augs become strictly regulated, the need for Humanity Front becomes superfluous).

Brockxz
25th Oct 2011, 07:34
Damn it, you beat me to it. To the OP, "canon" was the term you were looking for. I think the "explode absolutely everything" ending makes the most sense. Sarif and TYM aren't present in DX. Nor is Haggart. Nor Humanity Front. And while the Illumnati ending said augs would be restricted, humanity would call for restrictions on augs after the information that was released from Panchaea as well. Which ending fulfills all those requirements? Bingo - 'Splosion-Fest 2027.

Exactly this. Only this ending really ties in with DX1 because every other ending doesn't make sense because of no information in DX1. Of course unless they make one more sequel about Sarif industries, TYM, Humanity Front etc and make more sense why no such organizations are presented in DX1. Also there is no info about Panchaea in DX1 being as a structure. Doesn't make sense not to mention if it would be still presented in 2050ties.

PugPug
25th Oct 2011, 07:34
Eh, I don't think their deaths would have swayed public opinion, though. They certainly stoked the flames, but the embers of intolerance were already there. Something had to make speaking out against augmentation unpopular or politically incorrect.

Romeo
25th Oct 2011, 07:40
Eh, I don't think their deaths would have swayed public opinion, though. They certainly stoked the flames, but the embers of intolerance were already there. Something had to make speaking out against augmentation unpopular or politically incorrect.
Without a champion to lead them, most causes tend to die, not with a bang, but a whimper. With the command structure of Humanity Front just "gone", most would eventually just forget about it. Especially considering Haggart's charisma is responsible for much of his following, arguably moreso than his ideals.

avenging_teabag
25th Oct 2011, 08:13
Exactly this. Only this ending really ties in with DX1 because every other ending doesn't make sense because of no information in DX1. Of course unless they make one more sequel about Sarif industries, TYM, Humanity Front etc and make more sense why no such organizations are presented in DX1. Also there is no info about Panchaea in DX1 being as a structure. Doesn't make sense not to mention if it would be still presented in 2050ties.
The reason for all that not being mentioned that is that HR was made 10 years after DX.;)

I think any of the endings can be spun in such a way as to lead to the DX canon (with Sarif's probably being the least likely). There's still 25 years to the events of DX - that's A LOT of time, especially considering the turbulent times that the DEHR world is entering.

Romeo
25th Oct 2011, 09:02
The reason for all that not being mentioned that is that HR was made 10 years after DX.;)

I think any of the endings can be spun in such a way as to lead to the DX canon (with Sarif's probably being the least likely). There's still 25 years to the events of DX - that's A LOT of time, especially considering the turbulent times that the DEHR world is entering.
Aye, that's a good point. HR seems to be based upon the same idea as IW: Make it so everything makes sense, regardless of chosen ending.

imported_BoB_
25th Oct 2011, 14:43
There are no cannons in any of the endings.

:D


I think a sequel will reveal that Eliza played you at the end, and the buttons were meaningless...

Well yeah, that's kind of obvious.


Damn it, you beat me to it. To the OP, "canon" was the term you were looking for. I think the "explode absolutely everything" ending makes the most sense. Sarif and TYM aren't present in DX. Nor is Haggart. Nor Humanity Front. And while the Illumnati ending said augs would be restricted, humanity would call for restrictions on augs after the information that was released from Panchaea as well. Which ending fulfills all those requirements? Bingo - 'Splosion-Fest 2027.

I don't think you're right. First, with any endings, Panchaea explodes and Zhao dies. So TYM dies (if it's not enough, Illuminatis probably blame TYM for the bad chip that they give for free and show documents about the true Zhao)
In any endings, mech augs takes a huge drawback. First, Darrow probably goes down with his ship and died, so without research and explanations from his part, you could see how mech augs research would be crippled. Second, with augmented people going mad and provoking chaos all over the world for several hours, public opinion aren't probably favorable on mech augs research (well, worst than during the game anyway) from now on, and Megan is officially dead and goes to Page, so Sarif is left with nothing of her research.
So even if you don't take what Eliza said for a fact, you could see how everything turns quite similar no matter the ending.

Fluffis
25th Oct 2011, 15:53
Which one is Cannon? Well, I'm Dyan to know

Itkovian
25th Oct 2011, 16:18
I don't think there needs to be a canon ending: all of them can work equally well for DX1 to fit in.

Remember, there is still 25 years between those games, and that's plenty of time for the world to adjust to the status quo established by DX1.

This status quo in relation to the main theme of DXHR is simple: augmentations are no longer widespread, with only a few mech augs seen in the game. We also get hints of them being seen as having given up part of their humanity for it. The Illuminati are still up and running, but their plan to control augs directly was indeed foiled, and they've moved on to other plans (including the creation of Unatco).

I don't think any of this contradicts any of the endings. Regardless of what you choose, it is clear that augmentations will fall out of favour. Having hundreds of thousands of people suddenly turn into raving lunatics will do that, even if the truth is not revealed. After that debacle people will be wary of augmentations, and it will likely become the domain of a few hardcore devotees and the military, as well no doubt as amputees and the likes. But either way, people will no longer be clamoring for augmentations as the way to transcend their limitations, not after the trauma the public received at Darrow's hand (regardless how it is explained).

Now, that doesn't mean your choice is necessarily meaningless. Even if augmentations fall out of flavour from the public, there is still a lot of leeway as to the future of augmentations and augmentation research depending on your choice.

Here are my thoughts on the results of each choices:

- If you choose Darrow's route, augmentation research will be practically banned and become the domain of government/corporate black projects (like Area 51's nano aug research). Sarif Industries will go under, as will TYM and other augmentation firms. The humanity front will triumph and augs will be oppressed and discriminated against greatly, though in time this will mellow to what we see in DX1. The Illuminati will have to do damage control, but they're masters at surviving that and will simply go to ground and shutdown exposed projects. Neuropozyne is still needed, but augs in DX1 are so rare we don't really hear about it, though the research is naturally instrumental in the nano-aug project.

- If you choose Taggart's route, augmentation research will be regulated as the Illuminati wanted. Sarif Industries will go under due to those regulations, and TYM might survive in some form. The Humanity Front slowly fades away as it has served its purpose. Neuropozyne is still needed, but augs in DX1 are so rare we don't really hear about it, though the research is naturally instrumental in the nano-aug project.

- If you choose Sarif's route, augmentation research remains unregulated, but there is still a significant backlash against augmentations. Sarif Industries probably the storm, mostly due to its ample military contracts. TYM goes under due to their part in the debacle (Sarif will _certainly_ play that angle to the max). The Humanity Front goes bust as everyone turns against them for their terrorist actions. But still, people are wary of augmentations now and the idea of augmenting yourself for reasons other than handicap/military dies off. Illuminati naturally stay active, but the backlash augmentations still suits them and they move on to other plans. Sarif no doubt releases the augmentation rejection cure, and neuropozyne is no longer needed (and this likely helps SI stay afloat).

- If you choose to destroy Panchea, things go much like the Darrow option, except the Illuminati don't even need to hide. Everyone rejects augmentations, SI and TYM go under, the Humanity Front is vindicated (Taggart making a great martyr, no less). Eventually things calm down, and as before augmentations become the domain of black ops or for handicaps. Illuminati thrive in their continue obscurity. Neuropozyne is still needed, but augs in DX1 are so rare we don't really hear about it, though the research is naturally instrumental in the nano-aug project. Oh, and hundreds of innocents on Panchea die. This really is the worst ending. :)

So, to me, I think all endings are canon, except maybe the "kill everyone" ending. After all, I hope we get to see more of Adam Jensen, and him dying would be a problem.

THAT SAID, it's entirely possible they could pull a sequel out of it and account for each ending. The choices and impacts are not really on a personal level and affect long-term events. So I could definitely see a sequel where the consequences of your choices are revealed in news articles and certain comments by people, but does not affect the main story. Heck, it's entirely possible Jensen escaped Panchea as well (and Sarif certainly could, considering he's got a submarine with him *grin*).

But personally, I think the Darrow, Taggart, and Sarif endings could equally work as canon, with the kill-everyone being less likely if EM wants a sequel with Adam Jensen (and I hope they do).

Thank you.

Itkovian

Romeo
26th Oct 2011, 10:38
I don't think you're right. First, with any endings, Panchaea explodes and Zhao dies. So TYM dies (if it's not enough, Illuminatis probably blame TYM for the bad chip that they give for free and show documents about the true Zhao)
In any endings, mech augs takes a huge drawback. First, Darrow probably goes down with his ship and died, so without research and explanations from his part, you could see how mech augs research would be crippled. Second, with augmented people going mad and provoking chaos all over the world for several hours, public opinion aren't probably favorable on mech augs research (well, worst than during the game anyway) from now on, and Megan is officially dead and goes to Page, so Sarif is left with nothing of her research.
So even if you don't take what Eliza said for a fact, you could see how everything turns quite similar no matter the ending.
And that's fine, I suspect there will be flaws in any argument. Frankly I'm playing Devil's Advocate anyways, as I picked the Illumnati's ending. Now, for the rest of the points.

First off, Panchaea doesn't explode unless you physically interrupt the pressure regulating system. It becomes very obvious that Zhao isn't keeping Panchaea's pressure regulated by simply following the gameplay: Even after executing every member within the device, and Zhao herself, the structure is totally stable. And yet, when you hit the button to shut down that system, the structure instantly begin moaning, taking on water and small implosions can be heard. So, I think it's safe to say Panchaea does not explode in three of the four endings (At least, not from your involvement). This leaves TYM free to rebuild and hopefully repay the Illumnati. Of course, you're right in saying that the Illumnati could simply wipe them out if that better suited their needs.

Now, Darrow was dead in my "canon" playthrough, as I executed him after his confession. That being said, if the player chose to let him live, Panchaea wouldn't drag him to the waters below (See above). While I don't respect Darrow enough to assume he'd have repented for his actions and help augs finally achieve a fair level, I also don't feel he's particularly relevent any more either. In fact, I suspect he'd be completely obsolete within a few years. After all, the aug industry has grown up. =P

In Sarif's ending people actually appeared to want to push augmentations further, perhaps out of a hope for a certain "M.A.D." deterrent. Regardless, I do agree with you in the assessment that augmentations will be more regulated in any ending, but having picked the Illumnati ending, I obvious don't mind that.

There is plenty of proof of Megan being alive: You, three of her co-workers and Malik/pilot all saw her when you rescued her. And while I don't think she'd collaborate with Sarif on the project any more, remember that she wasn't alone in that research, her co-workers may be able to finish off what she laid out the groundwork for.

Lastly, I know alot of people didn't trust Eliza, but I totally did. She routinely tried to observe you, and even helped you directly in one circumstance. Frankly I think Eliza cares for Adam, as Adam is in many ways similar to her. He's evidence that she isn't totally alone in her unique situation.

imported_BoB_
26th Oct 2011, 13:58
And that's fine, I suspect there will be flaws in any argument. Frankly I'm playing Devil's Advocate anyways, as I picked the Illumnati's ending. Now, for the rest of the points.

First off, Panchaea doesn't explode unless you physically interrupt the pressure regulating system. It becomes very obvious that Zhao isn't keeping Panchaea's pressure regulated by simply following the gameplay: Even after executing every member within the device, and Zhao herself, the structure is totally stable. And yet, when you hit the button to shut down that system, the structure instantly begin moaning, taking on water and small implosions can be heard. So, I think it's safe to say Panchaea does not explode in three of the four endings (At least, not from your involvement). This leaves TYM free to rebuild and hopefully repay the Illumnati. Of course, you're right in saying that the Illumnati could simply wipe them out if that better suited their needs.

Now, Darrow was dead in my "canon" playthrough, as I executed him after his confession. That being said, if the player chose to let him live, Panchaea wouldn't drag him to the waters below (See above). While I don't respect Darrow enough to assume he'd have repented for his actions and help augs finally achieve a fair level, I also don't feel he's particularly relevent any more either. In fact, I suspect he'd be completely obsolete within a few years. After all, the aug industry has grown up. =P


Maybe it doesn't explode. But we know that it's the Hyron Project that keep the structure under pressure. And when you killed Zhao even without killing the women, the objective "defeat the Hyron Project" is cleared so it would seem that they died when Zhao is killed and then Panchaea is destroyed because there isn't the computer/human hybrid to monitore and regulate the pressure because Panchaaa is under water.
Even Darrow during an interview says that it was only augmented people that were able to work in Panchaea, again, because of the pressure.
(I know we learned more about that in The Missing Link but I haven't played it)



There is plenty of proof of Megan being alive: You, three of her co-workers and Malik/pilot all saw her when you rescued her. And while I don't think she'd collaborate with Sarif on the project any more, remember that she wasn't alone in that research, her co-workers may be able to finish off what she laid out the groundwork for.


Yeah, I know that. But besides that, it's really difficult to prove that you're alive if you're officially dead. It's like when someone steals your identity from you and use it to commit things. It's really difficult to prove that you're yourself. I know it seems weird, but it's how the laws work and I was talking about that (maybe it's not the same in America though, I don't know but here, it's because the laws didn't seem to adapt to weird scenario like that)
And without Malik, there isn't any pilot, it's on autopilot I think.
And about the others, I don't know but it seems to me that she was pretty much the head researcher, and the others were just doing what she told them to do. If they were that brilliant, maybe they would have worked for a bigger company like TYM :D (but yeah, you're right, we don't know)

PhoenixFiring
26th Oct 2011, 16:47
Why would you include multiple endings if they really meant only one was correct? I know this isn't Mass Effect, but still. What was in the game seems like a slap in the face if only one means anything.

der jester
26th Oct 2011, 17:47
I think regardless of your choice they could all be canon endings, here's why:
The three message endings:
If you upload the raw video, it could be doctored to benefit pro-augs or anti-augs, just like Serif and Taggart suggest. If you choose to upload a doctored video, it could be exposed as a fraud, and the unedited video uncovered. No matter which you choose a message could be shaped by pro-augs or anti-augs after the video is presented. Darrow went insane because he craved augmentation, which means augs corrupt and should be banned. Alternately, Darrow went mad because without augs, his life was so much less than it could be and aug ultimately can enrich lives and prevent disaster.
Also, sooner or later Panchea would be destroyed. Either by anti-aug terrorists, or due to a mechanical failure or a hyron failure. Or it could correct global warming and be dismantled, or left to fall into disrepair. 25 years is a long time to forget a world saving project, especially if it worked. Even if Adam destroyed Panchea, he could have escaped. It's also possible for Serif or Taggart to escape as well. None of the endings offer anything authoritative as far as what happens after Adam makes his decision.

Kenshiro3
26th Oct 2011, 18:02
All of them are cannon ;)

this most Likely as the Bob Page Ending after the Credits Reveals that the Complex WAS destroyed indicating that at least the suicide ending is cannon but Given the precedent set by the first game its likely ALL 4 are and are what lead to the REAL Ending, The Bob Page Ending.

jeyeichkey
26th Oct 2011, 18:17
Just as avenging_teabag and Itkovian points out. There is a lot of time between HR and DX. It might be quite possible for Adam to continue after Panachea. I remember that Sarif were hiding in a room with a mini-sub. That might be a possible escape for him to do more story after HR. And being Adam... well, he will probably manage to get out in time in one way or another. This Quinn, togheter with what sounded like Darrow, hinted that Adam might be useful for further operations.. if he survive. Of course, he could just die at Panachea, but developing a new augmented star might not be possible, unless the player should be playing a little kid in action. Would be hilaroius... or not That is, if there would be a sequel of some sort in between 2027 and 2050.

erionfin
26th Oct 2011, 19:06
That would certainly be a major slap in the face.

I'd put my money on the Illuminati ending as well, at least until we play a sequel anyway.

I don't think the Illuminati ending is the one they're gonna choose for a sequel. I think most likely one is the Sarif ending. It kind of has most ties to the original game, you know... not-necessarily-so-dynamic duo of Jensen and David Sarif will not be a getting a direct victory but they'll be getting a fighting chance and are gonna keep doing work together. Sarif wasn't the most innocent guy out there, but I think all his shady stuff had reasonable motives and he never really was a bad guy. Also Sarif was one of the deepest characters IMO in the game so they're probably want him to hang around in next game also.

Itkovian
26th Oct 2011, 19:29
I don't think the Illuminati ending is the one they're gonna choose for a sequel. I think most likely one is the Sarif ending. It kind of has most ties to the original game, you know... not-necessarily-so-dynamic duo of Jensen and David Sarif will not be a getting a direct victory but they'll be getting a fighting chance and are gonna keep doing work together. Sarif wasn't the most innocent guy out there, but I think all his shady stuff had reasonable motives and he never really was a bad guy. Also Sarif was one of the deepest characters IMO in the game so they're probably want him to hang around in next game also.

Like I previously wrote, I think they all could work, though my favourite is the Sarif ending.

Sarif himself was indeed a complex character, and I loved the guy. I totally expected him to be Illuminati from the start, but they actually threw us the perfect Deus Ex curveball: beneath all his secrecy, David Sarif actually is who he said he was and truly believes in what he was preaching (about transhumanism and so forth).

In the Pantheon of Deus Ex characters, that makes David Sarif the God of Honesty. :)

Itkovian

erionfin
26th Oct 2011, 19:42
Like I previously wrote, I think they all could work, though my favourite is the Sarif ending.

Sarif himself was indeed a complex character, and I loved the guy. I totally expected him to be Illuminati from the start, but they actually threw us the perfect Deus Ex curveball: beneath all his secrecy, David Sarif actually is who he said he was and truly believes in what he was preaching (about transhumanism and so forth).

In the Pantheon of Deus Ex characters, that makes David Sarif the God of Honesty. :)

Itkovian

I agree. However, your earlier post seemed to be written from the perspective that which of the endings (or if all of them) could bridge DX:HR to Deus Ex 1. As you logically explained, almost any of them works.

However, when we're thinking Deus Ex 4, a game that will most likely be set in between DX:HR and DX1 in timeline, I think Eidos Montreal definitely has to make a choice of the endings and decide which one is canon in order to be able to design a game. Those endings would just result in such a different premises for a game that one game couldn't handle all of those, in some cases, circumstantially completely different beginnings.

Of course they could choose to make the sequel so remote to DX:HR that this wouldn't be an issue. Meaning that there would be a minimum of 10-year time in between DX3 and DX4 in game universe's timeline and most likely any of the characters in DX3 wouldn't be able to appear in DX4. Because if they did, there would need to be a one decided ending for DX3 that would give DX3 characters logical and believable attitudes, dialogue lines, positions in the world etc.

Zoet
26th Oct 2011, 21:12
As Eliza herself said: 'remember Adam, everyone lies' .... I think that there is a strong possibility that in fact pressing any button leads to self destruct, meaning that Adam has to flee the facility no matter what choice he makes.
If the story is continued in DLC, or if any sequel starts off immediately after the decision, I think that an 'all options lead to self destruct' outcome could be likely. If it takes place a while after - say a sew months to a few years later - then I could imagine a gruff intro monologue from Adam about how he thought that he was making a choice that mattered, but how it all tuned out badly anyway, and how he was a fool for thinking he could ever make a difference. If you had a different intro for each ending, all endings could then be canon, even the self destruct: he could just say something about miraculously surviving and Sarif escaping in a submarine or something...
As you can probably tell, I very much want any future games to star Adam Jensen!

And also: the majority of the events of DX:HR took place over what, a week? a fortnight? so there is plenty of scope for change regarding how the story leads into the original game.
/end rampant speculation

erionfin
26th Oct 2011, 21:29
But differentiating all the endings in a sequel just with different intros would be really lame. Definitely the world itself should be different in each of the cases. Some people gained power, others lost it. Public opinion of augmentation and world versus augments -situation would differ. Even the fact that how NPC's would refer to the augmentation glitching and mindless augments that were roaming the streets in past would have to be different.

Of course they could write all new ending that somehow takes into account all of those things. But then it wouldn't be exactly any of the endings in DXHR, it would by something similar, that fits together and stays coherent.

And of course that Eliza lying -scenario could also change things. But as there were no clues to that even in the afterword-styled outros, I don't think that's the case.

jeyeichkey
26th Oct 2011, 22:21
I heard that Mass Effect (which I have missed..) is connected between 1 and 2 by the choices the player do in the first game, that will have effect in the second (if save files are still there). That seems very interesting.

imported_BoB_
26th Oct 2011, 23:33
Yeah very interesting. Particularly when they released the second one on PS3, and the first one has not been released ever.
And I don't think the next Deus Ex will be released on this generation on consoles so...

(Paul was alive in Invisible War, and I don't think anybody cared that much about the possible inconsistency)

itsonyourhead
26th Oct 2011, 23:35
I heard that Mass Effect (which I have missed..) is connected between 1 and 2 by the choices the player do in the first game, that will have effect in the second (if save files are still there). That seems very interesting.

No the problems there are that either they make the ending inconsequential, or they make 4 different games for the 4 different endings.

The first option sucks, and the second is unfeasible.

Therefore the third option (set sequel far enough away (either in terms of location and people, or time), such that the ending is locally inconsequential) is the best.

--OR--

Start working in a parallel universe.

Obviously, another "option" is to pick an ending as "cannon". But that is really really stupid. Why have a suckass 3 button ending if the dev's are just going to pick one anyway?

joelfinch
27th Oct 2011, 00:21
As Eliza herself said: 'remember Adam, everyone lies' .... I think that there is a strong possibility that in fact pressing any button leads to self destruct, meaning that Adam has to flee the facility no matter what choice he makes.

If I followed the story correctly, Adam killed the mega-brain which was responsible for doing the calculations needed to maintain Panchea against the awesome power of the sea, so unless someone gets out there and installs a new brain double-quick (unlikely given the scale of the damage), the facility is going down whether Adam blows it all to bits or not...

The buttons were about the release and spin on the information, not about Panchea's survival.

Romeo
27th Oct 2011, 00:53
If I followed the story correctly, Adam killed the mega-brain which was responsible for doing the calculations needed to maintain Panchea against the awesome power of the sea, so unless someone gets out there and installs a new brain double-quick (unlikely given the scale of the damage), the facility is going down whether Adam blows it all to bits or not...

The buttons were about the release and spin on the information, not about Panchea's survival.
Again, if you press the button to interrupt Panchaea's pressure control system, it IMMEDIATELY begins collapsing. Based on that fact alone, I'd say Hyron was designed for something other than pressure control. Further evidence of this is because pressure control isn't actually all that difficult to maintain. Submarine's, aircraft and cars do it with rudimentary computers, and sometimes without electronics at all. So, in three out of four instances, I'd say you're pretty much safe. Neglect may eventually let Panchaea sink, but it wont immediately start capsizing without Hyron - which we've seen.

Zoet
27th Oct 2011, 02:01
If I followed the story correctly, Adam killed the mega-brain which was responsible for doing the calculations needed to maintain Panchea against the awesome power of the sea, so unless someone gets out there and installs a new brain double-quick (unlikely given the scale of the damage), the facility is going down whether Adam blows it all to bits or not...

The buttons were about the release and spin on the information, not about Panchea's survival.

Yeah I got that from the story too, but as Romeo points out, it won't necessarily sink immediately. I was, I suppose, thinking more along the lines of what form a convergence of the four endings could take. The self-destruct ending maintains status quo: the Illuminati are still at large, the truth has not been revealed in any way, and there is still plenty of room for conspiracy, and it allows for an ideology-neutral (not inherently pro or anti augmentation) interpretation of Adam in any further games. The only problem is that Adam is seemingly dead in a self-destruct scenario, which is less than ideal...

TheYouthCounselor
27th Oct 2011, 07:06
I would say, given that the purity movement vanished during DX1, the Sarif ending. It did return in Invisible War, but something caused it to disappear during DX1. Denton would have heard something about it.

I wouldn't say it vanished at all, but it's just less prominent or in plain view. Early in the game NSF operatives rail against augmentations and how soon we'll all be judged just by "performance" instead of our humanity. Joe Greene of the Midnight Sun wrote several anti-aug articles particularly targeting nano augmentation because at least we could see that the mechs are freaks from far away whereas these even more dangerous nano augmented assassins for the government can blend in and spy on us.

kelticfury
27th Oct 2011, 15:15
I wouldn't say it vanished at all, but it's just less prominent or in plain view. Early in the game NSF operatives rail against augmentations and how soon we'll all be judged just by "performance" instead of our humanity. Joe Greene of the Midnight Sun wrote several anti-aug articles particularly targeting nano augmentation because at least we could see that the mechs are freaks from far away whereas these even more dangerous nano augmented assassins for the government can blend in and spy on us.

Maybe they were keeping a low profile and posing as just groupless activists during that time.

quixotic_mage
7th Nov 2011, 10:45
I think a sequel will reveal that Eliza played you at the end, and the buttons were meaningless...

if this happens, then that's a real "deus ex machina" move on behalf of the writers :))

jd10013
7th Nov 2011, 17:37
it would obviously be the humanity first ending. DX, and even IW had a distinct lack of augmented people running around. Simions himself said that Herman (after Anna was killed) was the last of the mechs. and being as you, Paul, and Simon were the only ones with the new nano tech..........augmentation was obviously abandoned at some point.

Romeo
7th Nov 2011, 20:52
if this happens, then that's a real "deus ex machina" move on behalf of the writers :))
OH HO HO! I see what ya did thar.

it would obviously be the humanity first ending. DX, and even IW had a distinct lack of augmented people running around. Simions himself said that Herman (after Anna was killed) was the last of the mechs. and being as you, Paul, and Simon were the only ones with the new nano tech..........augmentation was obviously abandoned at some point.
Well, yes and no. There was both the Illumnati/Humanity Front that said strictly controlled augs, and there was the Darrow ending which also would've all but weeded out most augs. One could also argue that after the pandamonium Darrow unleashed, blowing up Panchaea would've also resulted in a mass uprising against augmented individuals. Really, the only ending that would've had mass augmentations is Sarif's, and I'm sure there's some reason we could've had as to why his ideals never came to fruition.

ilweran
8th Nov 2011, 17:26
Gunther wasn't the last of the mechs though - maybe the last in active service? There was the owner if the bar in Hells Kitchen, Jordan Shea.

Sarif's ending can still fit. Whatever excuse was given for what happened, I imagine public opinion would still swing against augmentation.

2kool4u
11th Nov 2011, 22:46
Please, people, there's really a difference between canon and cannons.

Hahaha XDDDD :lol: :lol: Indeed. I have no idear which one it may be! I chose the high route though..

Odyseeos
3rd Oct 2012, 15:34
post mortem meditatio

I know that all roads lead to the Denton brothers, so choices have to do with the present. There are five choices.

Trapped in Panchaea. I Looks arounds. The door locks. I'm spooked by the feelings of Soldier. Is Eliza Cassan early avatar for SHODAN? Intimates-- I thimmk-- early she's Illuminati computer with second thought emergent.

Night alone. Night on fire. Where's the grimenal when you need him?

Each of three factions is-- I thimmk-- implicated subsidiary of Illuminati. Is there internal dissension? Makes sense. Augustus couldn't control his own family, Truman his own mouth. Are the Illuminati united in not caring what way leads to Dentons? Is Eliza new, loose variable, very old one?

Why?!! I turned off the dinbusted transmitter. the suffering's stopped. I don't have a dog in the fight!

If you choose this path, Adam, it will go to a bad result.

Reminds me of a a Skinner box. Zut!

Is this your choice, Adam?

Ah's needs think. :flowers:

Jerion
6th Oct 2012, 01:04
Gunther wasn't the last of the mechs though - maybe the last in active service? There was the owner if the bar in Hells Kitchen, Jordan Shea.

Sarif's ending can still fit. Whatever excuse was given for what happened, I imagine public opinion would still swing against augmentation.

He was the last of the Mech agents in MJ12-controlled service, I think, is what Simons was implying. He's definitely the obsolete version by the time JC arrives on the scene, but I can't imagine that simply because a handful of nano-aug agents are running around the world, all the existing mechs in all the PMCs, special forces, construction, IT and corporate security groups not lucky enough to be handed a MIB/WIB deployment are suddenly going to quit their jobs.

Given Shea's hardened attitude about it and the abrasive attitude shown mechs by purists (as represented by that one NSF fellow on Liberty Island), it's pretty safe to say that no matter what, by the time the 2040s roll around public opinion is largely against augmentation, regardless of whatever happens at Panchea. Any decision made there is largely irrelevant 20 years after the fact, but the immediate future, at least, would be pretty drastically changed (e.g. going with Sarif would shake up the Illuminati, giving Everett the opportunity to usurp power from DeBeers).