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BigBoss
17th Oct 2011, 06:06
So now that we have gameplay of exactly ONE LEVEL, criticism and pessimism has now become the focus of the forum, and I'm guessing it's only going to get worse before the game comes out.

What's the general concern? It comes down to 3 basic things. The first is that this ONE LEVEL shows off what is essentially, a splinter cell conviction clone, sacrificing stealth gameplay and multiple solutions for linearity, something that this series stands against!........

accept for the first game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsCRxkSVjRI

and the second
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx2m6OAlj8w

and the third
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V4_bKc5o38

but not the FOURTH entry!......oh wait
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yulMbQA2gvg

If I pull out ONE LEVEL from each of these games, I can present to you a completely false impression that this series is all about following a specific path to reach your goal, something that anyone who gave these games a chance beyond ONE LEVEL will tell you otherwise.(I hope you see the blatant connection I'm making there by putting words in caps)

The next concern is that this series has now taken a turn for less stealth and more action! This argument really holds up.... as long as you completely disregard the trailers released for the previous games, since they all end in either massive gunfights, explosions, or gunfights that involve slow motion explosions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGUr_8d4qqU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyIIk7DPFe4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSU43H1LYGs&feature=related

Now, looking past the superficial appearance that these games advertise a shooting fest, we can look to something more credible. Developer interviews. People here are saying that it is all fast paced unavoidable killing. The lead producer of the game has responded to this:
"Eurogamer: In the gameplay demo you've shown, Hitman sneaks about a library killing many cops, before he sneaks out. Would you be able to replay that level and not kill anyone?
Hakan Abrak: Yeah...Typically, there will be three or four approaches to almost every situation in the game. You have stealth assassin achievements, so you can complete the game as a stealth assassin."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-04-hitman-absolution-returns-interview

Finally, and probably the biggest concern, is the fact that the mechanic where you press a button to reveal enemy locations and movement even through walls and on different floors which becomes more disabled the higher the difficulty you play on, has been replaced by a mechanic where you press a button to reveal enemy locations and movement, even through walls and on different floors, which becomes more disabled the higher the difficulty you play on.....:hmm:

I know that some of you are upset over the voice actor/composer switch and maybe you are the kind of people who disliked the bond series after Connery, the batman films after Keaton, or the Trekkie movies after Shatner, in which case, I have nothing to convince you. All I have are casino royale, the dark knight, and the new star trek, which all recieved terrible criticism before release but in my opinion, as well as critical and box office measurements indicate, ended up kicking major ass.

So that's it. I guess now everyone who was whining can all continue complaining about how much this game is "dumbed down" I for one, am really looking forward to it :wave:

shobhit777777
17th Oct 2011, 06:32
:thumb:

Well put, completely agree.

BigBoss
17th Oct 2011, 06:39
Thanks, man.

shobhit777777
17th Oct 2011, 06:46
No problem, I rather like the sanity in your POV ;)

it baffles me how people could respond so negatively to Absolution and make such grand assumptions.

BigBoss
17th Oct 2011, 08:49
Yeah.........oh well.

derace
17th Oct 2011, 19:20
thank you for this post, i was about to make one by myself because i was so annoyed by the ost of the people here.

i think most of the people here dont realise that this one is a tutorial level, just like "the dead of a showman" etc etc and about this new instinct stuff. just play without it.. where is the fcking problem? i'm 100% sure it will be like just every other hitman before just with some new features.

Platinumoxicity
17th Oct 2011, 20:34
Also, the level seen in the gameplay video is obviously a pre-scripted demo level, designed specifically for making a gameplay video for the public. The way the AI conveniently turn away as soon as one section has been completed, the way the different weapons are placed so that they are found exactly on the player's path, the way guards come at jsut the right times to allow the player to demonstrate the path prediction and hiding places, and lastly... the way the background music perfectly builds up to future events that the player is planning. No advanced dynamic music system can actually predict what the player is going to do in a few seconds. The whole level has been scripted for the purpose of making a video publication, just like back in the day those early E3 demos of Half-Life 2, that were leaked. They were virtually unplayable if you hadn't seen the videos, because they have to be played through in a certain predetermined way.

I'm guessing that there are lots of things different in the real version of the level. And it looks like it will be a training level of sorts. And even though it's fairly linear just like Death of a Showman, it looks like the player isn't forced to kill anyone. The player making the video only murdered some cops to show off.

Would 47 really be stupid enough to shoot the guy whos clothes he's going to steal, in the back? He snuck up on him. He could have just knocked him out. It's evident that the player just wanted to show how 47 can use the body of someone as a suppressor by pressing the barrel right against the target's back. (Not realistic but often used in movies, and it does hide the muzzle flash)

shobhit777777
17th Oct 2011, 21:02
@Platinumoxicity


Also, the level seen in the gameplay video is obviously a pre-scripted demo level, designed specifically for making a gameplay video for the public.

Precisely. As in most stage demos it was heavily scripted to show off the core mechanics and give a gist of the game.

As for the 'Shoot-Body-in-back-twice' takedown..it has nothing to do with noise/flash suppression. It is simply an extremely effective way of taking a dude down. It's also used in Conviction (the only other game to utilize it) as part of the Krav Maga moves. Also it is a SOP sentry utilisation technique by the armed forces..wherein, if you have access, to a silenced firearm (a handgun in most cases) you sneak up as close as you can to the victim and fire.


Would 47 really be stupid enough to shoot the guy whos clothes he's going to steal, in the back? He snuck up on him. He could have just knocked him out

Which is what bothers me. IMO a kill with a knife or a gun should render the disguise useless. It really kills immersion for me when I pump a guard with .45 ACP (Big rounds mind you) and then take his clothes without any evidence of the violence.

BTW if you look at one of the screens of Absolution where this takedown is pictured you'll notice 47 aims directly at the heart.

BigBoss
17th Oct 2011, 21:03
@Platinumoxicity Yeah, I could have gone on and on pointing out the hypocrisy of how this game is being judged, but I figured 3 points were enough and that others would take the torch. Thanks for further proving what I was trying to get across.

Nogarda
17th Oct 2011, 22:47
Don't worry yourself over whiners, I hope IOI aren't. Hitman fans are gonna get this, the trailers that will be eventually released around launch will be so badass I'm hoping any male with a pulse will want the game, and if the trailer is connected with the avengers movie release on the ads, I think it will get tons of sales.

itsonyourhead
18th Oct 2011, 02:37
Anathema is anything but a linear mission. You have no idea how many different ways I've completed it. It's basically a sandbox. Saying Anathema is linear is like calling Call of Duty a goddam point.

Entry
1. Mailman (my favorite)
2. Delivery boy
3. Security
4. Shoot'em'up
5. Sneak through side door

Assassination
1. Sniper rifle --> Balcony
2. House --> stairs (either) --> office, room, or hallway
3. Backyard --> ladder to roof --> office (my favorite)

Escape:
1. Out through the gate
2. Out through the side door by the garage
3. Out through the delivery door
4. Out by car (get the keys from the mob guys)

-------

The first level of the first game was the tutorial.
The third game's beginning was only linear to the extent that it offered the reverse of the last level of the first game. After escaping from the labs, you get three levels for the building with many many rooms and multiple exit points.
The fourth game's first level was a glorified tutorial that has been denounced by everyone who has ever played the game.

What do we know about what we've seen?

1. Not a tutorial.
-- No tutorial messages.
-- Picks up in the middle of the story.

2. IO decided to show this level (rather than a more open one)
-- If they had better levels, why wouldn't they have shown them?

3. The level was really really ******* linear.
-- God forbid the player misses the pre-scripted action sequences or dialogue sections...
-- Through library, up stairs, across plank (oooh, so tensely cinematic), through maintenance, across roof, through apartment, through hallway, down elevator, through hallway, out through door to crowds.

BigBoss
18th Oct 2011, 03:17
^ This fails in so many ways it's not even worth going into why. Read The rest of what I said, as well as post #7.

BigBoss
18th Oct 2011, 03:57
They didn't have an original released level walkthrough to compare, but the point was more to try and show how the demo uses action as the selling point, like the trailers(which did consist of gameplay). I'm sure if level walkthroughs existed for the previous games, it would be something like this much like what was described in post #7

Not trying to change the internet, just making observations and posting them.

shobhit777777
18th Oct 2011, 04:44
@itsonyourhead

Reading Comprehension...you're doing it wrong :mad2:

Big Boss makes a comparison of the "linearity" between the previous games and Absolution and thus makes a point that the game is as sandbox as the previous ones.
The point is that all the videos were WALKTHROUGHS where in the player knew exactly where to go and what to do. If you were to watch ANY of the videos the impression would that Hitman is a linear scripted game....but if you observe carefully all the environments have different approaches...JUST like in Absolution's demo level.

Yours is a typical reaction.....inability to understand the other's POV and simply jumping on one little thing. Try to get some peripheral vision in bro.

@Big Boss
Not trying to change the internet, just making observations and posting them.

Which is an extremely important thing. Regardless of the impact on forum behaviour, there needs to be some semblance of rationality on the forums for us to be taken seriously by the developers. Communities often can affect change on certain design aspects of the game...Eg: Deus Ex HR and Ghpst Recon Future Soldier.

BigBoss
23rd Oct 2011, 08:53
I'm glad I'm getting through to nobody

big_hitman_fan
23rd Oct 2011, 21:41
I think I agree with the original post, and I'm also not clear why people are calling this the end of the series. The released playthrough felt like an early level in the game (maybe the makes of a tutorial level), and it will be very narrow in terms of options on how to complete.

The instinct mode is a more interesting choice that the mini-map - I always felt like the mini-map in BM was strange - instinct mode appears to give you a peak at your immediate surroundings, instead of showing you where your target is somewhere else in the level.

Later levels still have the opportunity to disappoint, but I'm impressed so far.

BigBoss
24th Oct 2011, 00:33
According to itsonyourhead, the chance that it's a tutorial is an impossibility because it doesn't blatantly announce THIS IS A TUTORIAL somewhere, which is funny because he accuses the game of hand holding.

big_hitman_fan
24th Oct 2011, 01:07
It wouldn't surprise me if this becomes the tutorial level - with a release date in 2012, the development team will likely put that in before launch. If it's not the tutorial level, then it would be one of the first.

BigBoss
24th Oct 2011, 06:24
and/or demo

I hope this game comes out in the April-early July window, there are NEVER any games out around that time, which really sucks because summer is when I'm able to play the most.

big_hitman_fan
25th Oct 2011, 02:58
Yeah, that would be an excellent release time frame. GTA IV did that a few years back, and it seemed to work out well for them.

BigBoss
8th Apr 2012, 23:49
It seems that we have come full circle once again, and people are complaining about the same old things. For those who are upset, read this threads op

sgg847
9th Apr 2012, 09:57
The sarcasm of the title of this topic is obvious to me. But...
You say about similarity, I say about advantage of the new features.
However, I am going to tell something about "linearity" of the story. Judge by the last interview of the devs I think that the new type of mission will be similar to the style of Freedom Fighters where the main purpose can be achieved only through completion several others and the order these "completions" will depend on your choice.

SilentGuy
10th Apr 2012, 18:41
Well said, BigBoss. This has been my opinion ever since the title was released and we started getting a small amount of info on the game. There will always be people who rant the game down because of the little amount of information. It is easy to spot all the things which are not like the good old Codename 47, but there are a lot more features that I think can make an interresting aproach to "the new" hitman. It's so easy to judge at such an early state of game-development and I think we should give the guys at IO a chance. They have delivered a series of great games so far - why should they screw it all up? They know what the hardcore fans want, and turning it into an action-game would be to ruin the franchise. Which I do not think is in any of the dev's minds.
All I can say is... Wait till we see the final outcome. Then we can start to rant, judge and critisize the game all that we want to. I have my faith in IO, and I think they will deliver an amazing game in the end.

BigBoss
11th Apr 2012, 20:39
The sarcasm of the title of this topic is obvious to me. But...
You say about similarity, I say about advantage of the new features.
However, I am going to tell something about "linearity" of the story. Judge by the last interview of the devs I think that the new type of mission will be similar to the style of Freedom Fighters where the main purpose can be achieved only through completion several others and the order these "completions" will depend on your choice.

Link to the interview that gave you that opinion

tbcdlad
17th May 2012, 03:11
I'm glad I'm getting through to nobody

No, you make some good points, although I always knew the game was linear just because of the prescripted gameplay. I thought I was the only person who felt the way you do at first and it's good to know that someone actually understands the point of a gameplay demo...to show off the game rather than show you all of the ways to complete the game, that would be bad for business. I've studied that video very closely and I've seen quite a few ways to go through with the level, so I get what you're saying.

BigBoss
30th May 2012, 16:01
It would be really helpful if the devs would just tell us what it is

imported_Hitman_fan
31st May 2012, 07:33
Just want to thank you for opening this thread hope will show the "skeptics" that hitman absolution will be no different then previous hitman titles.

I myself am sick of all these whiners that judged a game after a demo that was released more then an year ago, and was clearly ment to show us the new game mechanics nothing else.

I've told them this from the first time I saw it, but nothing could convince them, because those are stubborn as mules.

You clearly stated your opinion with solid arguments. Now who wants to believe you will, others that don't can not buy the game, I don't care anymore, it doesn't worth it.

The ones who weren't ignorant enough and watch the latest interview(the ones at PAX) know this will be at least as good as previous hitman games.And there is nothing to worry about.

sgg847
31st May 2012, 11:23
a demo that was released more then an year ago...
....this will be at least as good as previous hitman games.

Better have a game as linear as the demo than as good as previous hitman games.

Agent_47@ICA
1st Jun 2012, 04:17
First off I just have to say that I agree with you, I could care less that they switched the voice actor or composer as long as they sound good and from what i have heard of the music from the demo and the sniper challenge the music sounds awesome, I understand that some things have to change in order to keep some titles alive, without change games would never make any kind of advance anyone who doesn't understand this are close minded and immature.

As for the new features I am looking forward to using them. Just because the fans want something doesn't mean the Dev's need to do what the fans want, yes the Dev's are more likely to listen to the fans to some extent but it is ultimately up to the Dev's to make the game the way they think that will be the most enjoyable to the biggest part of the consumer.

That being said we have all trusted IOI is the past, so IMO allthe people who have doubts about the game need to relax take a breath and give the Dev's a chance, they are all working very hard to give the fans the best experience that they can, If you are truly troubled about the way the game is going to turn out you can always wait until the game comes out to see the finished product then go buy it, I for have pre ordered my copy and do not plan on canceling it for any reason.

Shadow47
1st Jun 2012, 13:09
I reserved mine as well. The Hitman series has always been amazing to me and never disappointed me. I see no reason for why this game will. I trust that this will be an amazing game and I think others should too.

People need to stop stepping on every piece of content that the developers let out. Just because you saw a video a certain way doesn't mean the game will be like that. Something the Hitman series is well known for is Player Choice. You will have the option of action or stealth.

I think we all need to relax about this an wait for the game to come out. And if you still doubt the game after it's released you have the option of just not buying it.