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View Full Version : Instinct mode: Good or Bad?



hitman flava47
21st Sep 2011, 10:56
I have just researched what info we have on instinct mode, and its nothing new, I have seen it before first in perfect dark zero, imo a very good stealth game if you dig deep enough. Then in Batman Arkham Asylum possibly the best game yet for me this gen. (Not because of the stealth but because of the zelda/metroid blueprint underneath.)
The thing that worries me slightly is the loss of trial and error gameplay, however perfect dark zero used xray vision and there were still plenty of "ok lets do that one more time just to perfect that last part" action going on. Having said that if I had to find fault with Batman AA it was the over use of detective mode.
Trial and error play in hitman games often revolved around the "accidents". If we are to lose trial and error play does this also mean we are to lose the "accidents"? I hope not.

Tungbui
16th Oct 2011, 11:41
The way I see it in the demo, 47 always had a clear view from above before entering any area. So from that point, he can imagine every position of the NPC. Of course, for us it's a little hard to do that bue hey, he's such a bad ass assassin right? About knowing where the NPC would go, I saw him could only predict the NPC's path when he gets some info or hints that indicate that. For example, the first time he use his instint, I could hear a guy said: CHECK OVER THERE. And naturaly, even without the instinct, I can predict that a cop would go to that position and I have to hide. The second time, when he shut off the power, of course some one will have to go to the fuse and fix that. So that's not super power.

Platinumoxicity
16th Oct 2011, 13:25
I think the path prediction is unnecessary, and frankly I think it insults the intelligence of even the dumbest of players. I'm not saying that I want it removed just because I'm not going to use it. I just can't see why anyone else would need it either. To me it sounds like a "stairs can be used for reaching higher levels in buildings" -tip playing each time you see stairs. The entire game is not one big training level, is it? The path prediction should be used in practice mode to teach new players how to act around the AI NPCs. It shouldn't be just a cheat to remove the player's learning experience.

The x-ray vision can be a cheap alternative to developing proper sound propagation system. It's easier to create a special shader model that shows people through walls, than it is to create a realistic sound system that supports gameplay by giving the player accurate information about the distance and direction of sounds. But it's still kinda redundant because the game is already in 3rd person. You already aren't required to expose yourself to see your enemies.

So in short: I can't see who would benefit from the path prediction, and the x-ray vision is redundant because you can already see behind solid cover with the 3rd person camera.

Addonexuz
16th Oct 2011, 21:04
well,i'm a long time fan of the assassin genre of games (the hitman series being at the VERY TOP of my list) and from first glance,i would compare this new instinct feature to eagle vision from assassin's creed.
is this bad? i don't think so,i don't plan on using this feature and i know in my heart a lot of other hardcore hitman fans won't either. i don't really care that the feature is there,i just hope that there is a difficulty or a game option to disable it for a harder challenge.new players that are un-familiar with the series may appreciate this more than older ones which i believe is what its intended for.

Nogarda
16th Oct 2011, 21:34
It is neither good or bad. As a hitman fan of all the previous games I find it unnecessary and will be turning it off as priorty one. I want to learn from the environment where enemies are stationed, not from a see through walls feature.

But that's what I love about the feature, it lets the n00bs and Assassin's Creed fans have a tool to help them through. The only times I even used eagle vision now I think about it was when the game prompted me during the story, otherwise it's only use was for spoting hidden collectibles much easier.

I can do without this rip-off feature in hitman games.

CBow
17th Oct 2011, 02:52
People are going to be like Batman: AA and abuse it. Then in reviews they are going to say that the game relies to heavy on it and everybody will push it aside.

shobhit777777
17th Oct 2011, 05:09
@Platinumoxicity

I think the path prediction is unnecessary, and frankly I think it insults the intelligence of even the dumbest of players. I'm not saying that I want it removed just because I'm not going to use it. I just can't see why anyone else would need it either. To me it sounds like a "stairs can be used for reaching higher levels in buildings" -tip playing each time you see stairs. The entire game is not one big training level, is it? The path prediction should be used in practice mode to teach new players how to act around the AI NPCs. It shouldn't be just a cheat to remove the player's learning experience.

The x-ray vision can be a cheap alternative to developing proper sound propagation system. It's easier to create a special shader model that shows people through walls, than it is to create a realistic sound system that supports gameplay by giving the player accurate information about the distance and direction of sounds. But it's still kinda redundant because the game is already in 3rd person. You already aren't required to expose yourself to see your enemies.

So in short: I can't see who would benefit from the path prediction, and the x-ray vision is redundant because you can already see behind solid cover with the 3rd person camera.

The path prediction is basically a quick way to find out the end-zone of the NPC. Suppose you are sneaking around and you see a guard walking about, instead of waiting for him to finish his patrol and find out where does he stop, the layer uses 'Instinct' to immediately get a handle on the guards position, so you know that OK this guard will go and stop near that door there...then you can plan accordingly.
It's basically for increasing the pace. Cuts out that waiting time.
As for intelligence....Is waiting and watching a guard (whether from a corner or on a map) to find out his 'end zone'/patrol route an inherently intelligent act?
We need to understand the difference between mechanics which require patience and those which require intelligence. There is a large gap.

As for the X-ray vision. Considering the game would have more NPC characters, it MIGHT become a necessity in planning your avenue of approach and keeping tabs on the AI. It's there to approximate 47's environmental awareness...which we are obviously disconnected with. You're right about the sound though...sound simulation is a major pain and were the game to rely on it as the main mechanic (that is IF they could pull off the simulation) to detect proximity...not all the players might have the hardware to fully utilize it. 3rd person is great way to simulate peripheral vision which FPV games lack.

big_hitman_fan
24th Oct 2011, 02:46
I think its a good change from the mini-map of old. The "paths" shown are more obvious on what they mean, versus interpreting dots on a floor plan. (I used to explain the mini-map away, thinking 47 got all the schematics for the area before a mission... )

For silent assassins, I'd imagine it becomes unavailable at the highest difficulties. So in the end the feature isn't as relevant as some suggest.

semajmarc87
25th Oct 2011, 02:23
As long as the "instinct mode" can be turned off I really don't care about it because I won't be using it.

shobhit777777
25th Oct 2011, 19:59
IMO 'Instinct' vision can be more than 47's version of Detective vision.
Instinct is supposed to simulate 47's near superhuman perception of his environment. So this would entail 47 being able to observe Humans (AI) and at a glance be able to identify their threat level, the way they would behave in a certain situation and predict their behavior to an extent. Here's how it might work-


1. Using Instinct while observing specific NPCs, the player will be able to ID their weak spots, much like the new Sherlock Holmes. A broken limb which hasn't quite healed (shown as a visual filter-glowing left leg maybe and a slight limp in the animation) allowing 47 to overpower these targets much more easily or disabling them...would facilitate taking human shields. Maybe using Instinct he can identify breathing ailments (Coughing, wheezing etc.) allowing him to take it into consideration (a bit of poison in the medicine bottle?)
Identifying a person with a metallic prosthetic, slipping a weapon into his trouser pockets and allowing him to carry your weapon past a metal detector.

2. Behavioral patterns could also be gleaned through Instinct. Activate it, and 47 is able to focus on tiny details like a slight swagger in the walk (indicating the target's propensity towards drinking). An NPC fiddling with his lighter constantly indicating a smoker, which allows the player to wait, follow the target as he goes for the inevitable smoke and kill him.

3. Threat levels could be assessed by 47. A confident walk would indicate the target. A cautious walk with the head swiveling around, looking alert would indicate guards. Combat patterns could be predicted. Find out which guard/NPC could be easily coerced into cooperation and which NPC would put up the most fight. Suppose 47 is in a bustling crowd, under close surveillance...he could use instinct to ID his pursuers.

4. Assess the level of suspicion and who might blow their cover. A detailed look on the facial animations would give us all the information we need.
An alert face, scanning all the faces in the crowd would imply someone who would recognize you while a bored face, yawning and casually looking around would imply a lax security guard


5. Why limit it to the visual? Maybe have a way to indicate smells as well....visually represented as a coloured vapour. So 47 can identify where people have been or where they might go again

[Focussing on a specific character would enhance the particular animations which provide clues...like an exaggerated walk to give the players a better clue...glowing objects/limbs..vapours representing smells etc.]


The above is not a freebie as the player will have to decide which NPC to focus on based on observation..and in return be able to utilise 47's surgical deductive skills. It won't give you information on a platter...it won't spell it out in bold letters "TARGET LIKES TO DRINK IN THE KITCHEN". It will only play out a more detailed animation/clue and the inference will have to be made by the player...."what does that limp suggest? what can I do with it?" "I just saw that guy again." You use focus to get a close up on his earpiece and the small radio controller between his thumb and forefinger.
It rewards your observational skills with extra info from which YOU have to extrapolate what that means and HOW you use it to your advantage.

Please let me know what you think and do add in your own suggestions and ideas

big_hitman_fan
26th Oct 2011, 02:32
@shobhit - Agree with a lot of your insights. Definitely encourages figuring out paths tactically, instead of just watching symbols on a map.

shobhit777777
26th Oct 2011, 09:31
@shobhit - Agree with a lot of your insights. Definitely encourages figuring out paths tactically, instead of just watching symbols on a map.

Exactly. It rewards my observational skills with extra information and tactical information which is really useful, realistic and does not give away too much...leaving the player to draw the inference himself.

BTW why was the thread moved? This thread is a debate regarding the good vs bad of Instinct mode...my thread was an idea and discussion thread..:(

big_hitman_fan
29th Oct 2011, 01:09
looks like this came back - good discussion. need more of these on this forum.

Odinsreaver
5th Nov 2011, 05:40
As long as the "instinct mode" can be turned off I really don't care about it because I won't be using it.

Agreed.

bat_brain
8th Nov 2011, 07:40
will it be like detective mode in the batman arkham games in which you need to use it to succeed, or can you get away w/o it?

facial recognition, similar to that of LA noire, would be neat. IDK how they could incorporate that into a hitman game however.

so am i mistaken, or will there still be the iconic, real time mini map from previous games?

from what i read above it seems this mechanic wil take the place of the map? yes? so that means we will indeed need to use it in order to know where the hell we are going then? at least on the first few playthroughs?

i do hope there are in-game saves..ones that can actually be loaded from exiting the game for a change.

john1993
30th Nov 2011, 10:12
it's fine or at least they should give you an option to remove it for the more hardcore players

i will use it by the way

BigBoss
30th Nov 2011, 15:54
it's fine or at least they should give you an option to remove it for the more hardcore players

i will use it by the way

Do you want to know how to disable that option?......Don't press the button that initiates it, herp derp.

lol
2nd Dec 2011, 05:02
Wow!!no notification and my thread vanished!!

I was discussing about this and how is it different from conviction of BAA.It really isn't as far I can see.

My last hope of a stealth game now-Thief 4.

Shadow47
2nd Dec 2011, 10:24
I don't really mind that it's there. They will supposedly be having extreme difficulties for the hardcore fans. I'm sure as difficulty goes up the instinct will go down. This tool can be something for the beginners. I as well intend to use it though.

I would predict the option of "no instinct" will be there somewhere as well.

FrederikBlom
6th Dec 2011, 22:40
A real hardcore Hitman-gamer don't use that...

Travis_IO
9th Dec 2011, 09:50
I don't really mind that it's there. They will supposedly be having extreme difficulties for the hardcore fans. I'm sure as difficulty goes up the instinct will go down. This tool can be something for the beginners. I as well intend to use it though.

I would predict the option of "no instinct" will be there somewhere as well.

You can hear it from the developers themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8909F4GI7Y#t=3m0s

Rhamka
12th Dec 2011, 00:21
Im a fan of Hitman series since the first game was released (my first year in the Uni) so i think it is insulting for hardcore and old fans to add that thing, anyway there are many teenagers over there that expect the same copy of other games.... but ¡this is Hitman! It doesnt have to be easy. After all u can finnish the game slauthering or as a silent assassin.

So well, I think IOI dont want to lose both different kind of customers, make it an option and give a better score for not using, or some kind of reward for not using, possibly dont make it available for hard difficulty. That would be enough for me.

Travis_IO
13th Dec 2011, 10:51
If you play on the higher difficulty levels, you will have less instinct.

I don't know how you care for Joystiq, but they put it like this:

Hitman Absolution has Hardcore Mode for Masochists (http://www.joystiq.com/2011/10/07/hitman-absolution-has-hardcore-mode-for-masochists/)

Nogarda
13th Dec 2011, 12:22
Masochists. behave! blood money was at its best on professional. and you could still come out with 5 minute SA ranks on the faster levels. The fact AI's have patrol tracks will make it very simple to adjust too eventually. CN47 has the hardest level in videogame history, so unless players have to use a shadowing patrols bug to even get past AI like in CN47 Absolution by comparison will be way easier.

mattnexus
16th Dec 2011, 04:28
I;m looking forward to having the instinct mode. I really like the idea of having more control over the environment. In some ways this reminds me of what Ubisoft did with Splinter cell (please don't rage anyone)

Originally I loved the series and the stealth, but you had to be ultra-stealty or you would be killed instantly, this made for frustrating trial and error at some points. Then conviction came out and the stealth aspects were still there, but as a player you really felt like you controlled the environment.

It reminds me of absolution in that these new features give the player more control and options over the gaming environment