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View Full Version : What do the guys from Ion Storm think?



Aetius
12th Sep 2011, 02:33
Have any of the original Deus Ex developers posted their thoughts on DE3? I just finished the game and this thought occurred to me.

Spoiler!!! I loved the '4th' ending by the way - blow up Panchea. I chose this as my first, original ending because I couldn't decide between any of the other three. I think Adam's narration and what he said was really touching and thought provoking. Loved the sombre vibe as well. I think it was fitting that he died as a selfless hero and also, killing him ensured there would be no speculation that he was still alive in Deus Ex 1 - if this was meant to be the true ending of course (which I think it was - Bob Paige).

Anyway, loved the game (except it was too easy even on the hardest difficulty) and would like to know what the original devs think too.

unbeatableDX
12th Sep 2011, 02:40
yeah id like to know too. id also like them to get back together and make a new game. would be awesome.

MaxxQ1
12th Sep 2011, 03:44
Awhile back, Warren Spector got a good look at HR and gave it his thumbs up. Of course, the people who've been here for the past 4 years took what he said with a large grain of salt, since what (little) we had been hearing about the game was... disturbing, to say the least.

Other than that, I don't know if anyone else has seen or played it.

Here's the thread: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=115171&highlight=Warren+Spector

Kodaemon
12th Sep 2011, 05:26
he died as a selfless hero

Out of curiosity, you think suicide bombers are selfless heroes too?

Aetius
12th Sep 2011, 07:33
Out of curiosity, you think suicide bombers are selfless heroes too?

Lol what? Did you listen to what he said in his self oratory? He said he had no right to make choices for humanity because he'd be no better than the people he was fighting. Therefore, suicide was the only selfless option you could choose in the game. I think the destruction of the plant was mostly for dramatic effect though but also served as a means of closure for the game. The definitive end to Jensen, Dowd, Sarif, Taggart and seemingly the Hyron project (but which we know Paige salvaged in the end, great tie in to DE1). But yeah, this ending makes sure that none of these characters are speculated to be alive in DE1 and also shrouds what happened at Panchea in mystery in true Deus Ex conspiracy style.

Kodaemon
12th Sep 2011, 08:00
He said he had no right to make choices for humanity because he'd be no better than the people he was fighting.

So instead he decides to run away from everything by blowing himself up, taking dozens of mostly innocent lives with him. Sure, that makes him so much better!

Anesthetics
12th Sep 2011, 08:04
Out of curiosity, you think suicide bombers are selfless heroes too?

Potentially, they are. It depends on what the target is. If its a bunch of innocent civilians, then no.

Romeo
12th Sep 2011, 08:11
Most of the dozens of innocents you list would've gone on to realize they were unintentional murderers, which would've been a horrid fate. Which leaves a few Illumnati, a few injured Sarif employees and Sarif himself, and Darrow. The man responsible for a lot more casualties that day.

The first group would probably prefer death to living with that kind of guilt. The second need to be eliminated to prevent interference. The third is only five people and David, who wants you to spin the tragedy in to something marketable. And then Darrow, who at that point in the game deserves to be buried at the bottom of the ocean.

Five innocents versus giving humanity a second chance? Sounds completely justifiable to me.

MaxxQ1
12th Sep 2011, 08:12
Potentially, they are. It depends on what the target is. If its a bunch of innocent civilians, then no.

Actually, whether they're selfless heroes or not has more to do with your viewpoint on their actions/politics/causes/whatever than anything else. If you disagree with what they're dying and killing others for, then they're nothing but scumbags. If you agree with them, then yeah, they're selfless heroes giving everything for the cause, whatever it might be.

Anesthetics
12th Sep 2011, 08:39
Actually, whether they're selfless heroes or not has more to do with your viewpoint on their actions/politics/causes/whatever than anything else. If you disagree with what they're dying and killing others for, then they're nothing but scumbags. If you agree with them, then yeah, they're selfless heroes giving everything for the cause, whatever it might be.

Right, but even in a world with no absolutes (like ours), where everything is relative. A majority can agree that some actions are just not heroic. Like killing civilians. Its ironic that religious people who deal in absolutes, are the minority preventing something from being considered absolutely immoral.

Ashpolt
12th Sep 2011, 09:08
So instead he decides to run away from everything by blowing himself up, taking dozens of mostly innocent lives with him. Sure, that makes him so much better!

On my second playthrough, when it came time to choose at the end there was no one except Adam left alive on Panchea anyway. Blowing up the place would've only sacrificed him. :rasp:

duckydy
12th Sep 2011, 11:57
Hahaha. I wondered about that. Was thinking of doing a playthrough where I killed everyone in sight including civilians in the hopes that Jensen would say something different at the end.


On my second playthrough, when it came time to choose at the end there was no one except Adam left alive on Panchea anyway. Blowing up the place would've only sacrificed him. :rasp:

Kodaemon
12th Sep 2011, 12:10
Well, I haven't done a Jensen The Homicidal Maniac playthrough yet, but I'm sure I'll get to it eventually :P

Jerion
12th Sep 2011, 12:11
Well, I haven't done a Jensen The Homicidal Maniac playthrough yet, but I'm sure I'll get to it eventually :P

Remember that you're a maintenance man and every fridge in the city is full of orange soda.

Ashpolt
12th Sep 2011, 12:18
Remember that you're a maintenance man and every fridge in the city is full of orange soda.

Remember, a fridge is the most effective way to make a silent takedown. Prod with the fridge.

jd10013
12th Sep 2011, 12:54
Awhile back, Warren Spector got a good look at HR and gave it his thumbs up. Of course, the people who've been here for the past 4 years took what he said with a large grain of salt, since what (little) we had been hearing about the game was... disturbing, to say the least.



and he did sign of on everything Harvey was doing with IW.

MaxxQ1
12th Sep 2011, 16:04
and he did sign of on everything Harvey was doing with IW.

Yeah... there's that.

Which is kinda why I'm wondering why a lot of folks here seem to be anticipating Dishonored, considering Smith is one of the project leads/supervisors/bosses/whatever.

The game *does* sound interesting, but I have that little nagging voice in the back of my mind saying, "Remember Invisible War." Let's hope Harvey remembers it, as well as his and Warren's IW post-mortem.

jd10013
12th Sep 2011, 17:18
I think everyone is hoping he learned from his mistakes. and IW wasn't all his fault either. it was definitely rushed, and definitely suffered from co development with the console. but a lot of those decisions were made by the publisher. I think the biggest gaffe's Harvey made were focusing too much on the technical aspects of the game. they always seemed to me to be far to concerned about the lighting, physics and graphics. not that those aren't important, but they became too important in the grad scheme of the game. and the other enormous gaffe would of course be the universal ammo. I guess that came about because the tiny maps didn't really allow for the placing of a dozen ammo types, but it totally unbalanced the weapons and made most of them useless. launch 6 rockets and you weren't just out of rockets, you couldn't use weapons anymore.

mad825
12th Sep 2011, 17:24
Right, but even in a world with no absolutes (like ours), where everything is relative. A majority can agree that some actions are just not heroic. Like killing civilians. Its ironic that religious people who deal in absolutes, are the minority preventing something from being considered absolutely immoral.

The majority of opinions do not mean anything and in fact they could be wrong.

This is where Consequentialism/Utilitarianism comes-in and creates a never ending paradox to achieve a particular goal.

JulianP
13th Sep 2011, 02:59
Most of the dozens of innocents you list would've gone on to realize they were unintentional murderers, which would've been a horrid fate. Which leaves a few Illumnati, a few injured Sarif employees and Sarif himself, and Darrow. The man responsible for a lot more casualties that day.

The first group would probably prefer death to living with that kind of guilt. The second need to be eliminated to prevent interference. The third is only five people and David, who wants you to spin the tragedy in to something marketable. And then Darrow, who at that point in the game deserves to be buried at the bottom of the ocean.

Five innocents versus giving humanity a second chance? Sounds completely justifiable to me.
Eh, really? Not in control of one's actions = not responsible, if you ask me. I wouldn't feel the slightest bit guilty. Darrow and others who were involved and aware of what they were doing are responsible. Not to mention it's utterly immoral to make that choice for them. Your logic seems twisted to me.

Regarding Harvey Smith... Remember that IW isn't the only project he's been in charge of that ended up being poo. I'm not at all convined that he's learned anything.