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bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 11:54
I wanted to open a discussion and invite fan art, for the possible addition of Eve Jensen. Essentially allowing us to choose which gender to play as. I'm sure it would be some violation of canon, but it could be fun. Still it would require hiring on a new voice actor and doing character design, not to forget all the other voice actors having to redo much of their dialog. Also depending on whether or not Eidos wants to change the nature of Jensen's relationships for Eve (strait or gay, or the antagonist relationship with Pritchard), many character animations may need changing. I for one would welcome the addition, it would add a great deal of replayability.

just_dont_do_it
3rd Sep 2011, 12:40
It's a simple question of the game's development budget. Bioware can allow it. Others prefer not to.

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 13:31
It's a simple question of the game's development budget. Bioware can allow it. Others prefer not to.

I think it was expensive for Bioware to make femshep only because they shied away from a lesbian Femshep (exception being Liara). Bioware had to have two sets of decision trees because femshep only like Liara and the guys.

Reven
3rd Sep 2011, 13:58
I think they scrapped any idea of a female Jensen because of two reason, first of all what would Eve’s relationship have been to Megan?. And second it would have been nothing more than the same character with a different skin and voice.

DXM1
3rd Sep 2011, 14:41
if gender is such a big deal to you, get a sex change. this is just a video game... there are more important things to focus on rather than trivial requests.

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 14:43
I think they scrapped any idea of a female Jensen because of two reason, first of all what would Eve’s relationship have been to Megan?. And second it would have been nothing more than the same character with a different skin and voice.
This is surprising coming from a person with Motoko Kusanagi used for avatar and sig.



if gender is such a big deal to you, get a sex change. this is just a video game... there are more important things to focus on rather than trivial requests.
What gender am I that you believe I would want a sex change to feel more comfortable playing a male? I don't remember mentioning if I wanted to play Eve (sure it's implied), but I never said I wanted to play as Eve over Adam. Furthermore, what does this have to do with gender comfort? I'm quite happy being of the superior gender. Mwhahaha!

Pete278
3rd Sep 2011, 15:01
What's the point of writing a narrative where the main character's gender can be switched without much change necessary?

Tycho
3rd Sep 2011, 15:18
I have nothing against a "Eve Jensen", but I think it will not be happening, because the work they would have to put in such a DLC just for the Voice Over would be really expensive. Too expensive too be profitable I would guess. And I would rather see they put all the work/money in additional content or a new game.

In Mass Effect 1+2 there are no gay relationships regardless if your Shepard is male or female. The most expensive part for giving the option of sex will be the VO, you simple have to pay 2 voice actors for the main character and additionally the other actors must record alterations of there stuff to reflect the gender of the char.

cya
Tycho

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 15:25
What's the point of writing a narrative where the main character's gender can be switched without much change necessary?
Pete, are you talking about canon (from a book) or the game? In the game, the narrative would change a bit, I think. From the start, any time someone says Adam would need to be changed to Eve, but that is just required. One of the things I do want to discuss here is how the narrative could change for Eve. Like I mentioned, would this change Jensen's relationship with Pritchard? Would this change the relationship with the male or female characters? If Jensen's relationships were different for Eve, how do you (anyone posting here) think these relationships should change?



I have nothing against a "Eve Jensen", but I think it will not be happening, because the work they would have to put in such a DLC just for the Voice Over would be really expensive. Too expensive too be profitable I would guess. And I would rather see they put all the work/money in additional content or a new game.

In Mass Effect 1+2 there are no gay relationships regardless if your Shepard is male or female. The most expensive part for giving the option of sex will be the VO, you simple have to pay 2 voice actors for the main character and additionally the other actors must record alterations of there stuff to reflect the gender of the char.

cya
Tycho
That's a fair assessment Tycho. Even Bioware has said the development of both genders has been a burden. I would also rather Eidos focus on the easiest, fastest and cheapest ways to enhance replayability for DXHR. Still, it'd be fun to play around with the idea of Eve Jensen.

Brian175
3rd Sep 2011, 15:36
Deus Ex is a different type of game than Mass Effect. Mass Effect still has a lot of the more traditional CRPG 'sand box' elements from their older games like Baldur's Gate and KOTOR built in. Deus Ex is more action-adventure than RPG....man I miss Baldur's Gate/Torment.

AlexOfSpades
3rd Sep 2011, 15:54
if gender is such a big deal to you, get a sex change. this is just a video game... there are more important things to focus on rather than trivial requests.

Yeah, because only transgenders play with female characters.

You think you're very cool to waltz inside the forums warning people that "this is just a video game", right? Do you think we're that much clueless? Of course everyone here is very aware that its "just a video game".

And we plan into keeping the discussion "about the video game".

He's not asking if he should do a sex change, he's asking about changing the character model. In case you dont know, DX:IW had that feature, so some of us expected it to go to the next game.

Naturally, i believe that its more comfortable to spend hours and hours staring at a pair of female buttocks instead of AJ's muscular male ass. Its for eye-candy. Besides, its more immersive for the female gamers, and we do have a fair share of them.

Personally, i would play with male AJ for immersion, but for more casual games such as MMO's, i seriously rather female characters.

Now, about the OP, i dont think an "Eve Jensen" will ever pop up, because the game has pre-rendered cutscenes and they would all have to be re-done to fit the female character. They would also have to make Megan's relationship either lesbian (shocking.) or change her into a male character. That would result in re-doing all the conversations, switching the "her" to "him" - and that also applies for everytime someone talks to AJ, too.

In the end, the game's sound files (which, together with textures, are the "heaviest" files) would be multiplied to fit the conversations, plus the cutscenes. That wouldnt fit for the consoles, since they have limited space for the games.

So, conclusion, no Even Jensen.

PS: Ilves made this (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7498/ver2copy.jpg).

ZakKa89
3rd Sep 2011, 16:13
It's a simple question of the game's development budget. Bioware can allow it. Others prefer not to.

nothing to do with budget.

xeoncat
3rd Sep 2011, 16:37
I wanted to open a discussion and invite fan art, for the possible addition of Eve Jensen

Challenge accepted

EricaLeeV
3rd Sep 2011, 17:02
I would rather have a solid main character than getting to have the choice of different genders. Making a female character in addition to a male just adds a whole other set of issues with dialogue, story, and other aspects of the game.

Bioware is a wonderful example of this. Choice of main character's gender seems to detract from the actual character itself. When it comes to budgets Bioware is one of the lucky ones yet they continue to create a bland main character because they have to enact their very own version of 'choice'.







He's not asking if he should do a sex change, he's asking about changing the character model. In case you dont know, DX:IW had that feature, so some of us expected it to go to the next game.

Naturally, i believe that its more comfortable to spend hours and hours staring at a pair of female buttocks instead of AJ's muscular male ass. Its for eye-candy. Besides, its more immersive for the female gamers, and we do have a fair share of them.


;) Count me as one female gamer. However, as all good game players, how attracted I was to the main was not the reason why I played this game. Far from it. If you had a hot female main that would be the draw for many shallow individuals.

I am used to playing men in video games (as there are barely any female mains in video games) so it's no big deal for me. Plus, video games tend to lack characterizing female mains well. :(



So, for me, it's a definite no to Eve Jensen

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 17:10
Challenge accepted

Now I'm all anticipation and hopeful. Fingers crossed for epicness.




I would rather have a solid main character than getting to have the choice of different genders. Making a female character in addition to a male just adds a whole other set of issues with dialogue, story, and other aspects of the game.

Bioware is a wonderful example of this. Choice of main character's gender seems to detract from the actual character itself. When it comes to budgets Bioware is one of the lucky ones yet they continue to create a bland main character because they have to enact their very own version of 'choice'.
...
;) Count me as one female gamer. However, as all good game players, how attracted I was to the main was not the reason why I played this game. Far from it. If you had a hot female main that would be the draw for many shallow individuals.

I am used to playing men in video games (as there are barely any female mains in video games) so it's no big deal for me. Plus, video games tend to lack characterizing female mains well. :(

So, for me, it's a definite no to Eve Jensen
I can see your point. Eidos did a great job with Adam's design, but some of the cut scenes seem odd, and I really didn't love the voice acting. They don't have a great rep to go into a design on Eve without first reworking Adam. This shouldn't be a discussion on Bioware and ME3, but I can't just stop it now. ME series is TPS, so we do have to see Shep lots, and yes, artistically, ME series is bland. ME series has no edginess to their art, their is no drama to their brush strokes. Bioware ME development team draws good aliens, fairly realistic humans, and did a great job pimping out Miranda Lawson/Yvonne Strahovski in a debased marketing campaign. But if you ignored Bioware's derpiness and Eidos' partial success with Adam, would you like to see an Eve Jensen?

EricaLeeV
3rd Sep 2011, 17:13
Rule 63 of the internet never fails to surprise me...

xeoncat
3rd Sep 2011, 17:18
Now I'm all anticipation and hopeful. Fingers crossed for epicness.

lol, I don't think I can achieve those expectations, but I'll give my best

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 17:33
lol, I don't think I can achieve those expectations, but I'll give my best
no worries. I might try my hand at a pic, probably modify so stock pic, but only if I can finish my chores before dark.

EricaLeeV
3rd Sep 2011, 17:37
I can see your point. Eidos did a great job with Adam's design, but some of the cut scenes seem odd, and I really didn't love the voice acting. They don't have a great rep to go into a design on Eve without first reworking Adam. This shouldn't be a discussion on Bioware and ME3, but I can't just stop it now. ME series is TPS, so we do have to see Shep lots, and yes, artistically, ME series is bland. ME series has no edginess to their art, their is no drama to their brush strokes. Bioware ME development team draws good aliens, fairly realistic humans, and did a great job pimping out Miranda Lawson/Yvonne Strahovski in a debased marketing campaign. But if you ignored Bioware's derpiness and Eidos' partial success with Adam, would you like to see an Eve Jensen?

Still no.

One of the things I really love about the Deus Ex series (save Invisible War; which is not generally well thought of) is that they are games built on a solid story of a set main character and I believe adding such a difficult (and at times controversial) choice is not worth it. Especially when they already had to cut so much content to begin with. I would rather we have a journey with a specific main character and see his relationships, past, and future trials with no character ambiguity that comes with the ability to choose different sexes.

bfett81
3rd Sep 2011, 17:37
Eve Jensen should be the protagonist in the next Deus Ex game.

Or perhaps...the antagonist.

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 17:39
...

PS: Ilves made this (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7498/ver2copy.jpg).

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7498/ver2copy.jpg
WOW! Thank You Ilves!

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 17:44
Still no.

One of the things I really love about the Deus Ex series (save Invisible War; which is not generally well thought of) is that they are games built on a solid story of a set main character and I believe adding such a difficult (and at times controversial) choice is not worth it. Especially when they already had to cut so much content to begin with. I would rather we have a journey with a specific main character and see his relationships, past, and future trials with no character ambiguity that comes with the ability to choose different sexes.

Fair. I see your point. Still, I can dream:cool:

bfett81
3rd Sep 2011, 17:47
The plot of Deus Ex HR II would be around Adam and Eve combining their DNA somehow to open the door for nano-infused augmentation technology.

The bad guys capture eve at the start...or perhaps adam....

Might be sort of ripping off the plot of DXHR but, eh...would work.

Also, the game would be set up so you get to Eve at the midpoint or something....and then you can start exploring deeper conspiracies.

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 17:55
The plot of Deus Ex HR II would be around Adam and Eve combining their DNA somehow to open the door for nano-infused augmentation technology.

The bad guys capture eve at the start...or perhaps adam....

Might be sort of ripping off the plot of DXHR but, eh...would work.

Also, the game would be set up so you get to Eve at the midpoint or something....and then you can start exploring deeper conspiracies.

Hi Bfett, I like the enthusiasm. You idea is cool. I hadn't considered Eve as a separate character from Adam, just the same person, but different gender. Maybe Eve could be a female clone of Adam, made in an effort to harvest DNA, with changes made for various reasons. Sounds like it could make good Fanfic. :cool:

JCpies
3rd Sep 2011, 18:41
I'm not against a female counterpart for the protagonist, but I'd rather have a solid game than a time consuming half-assed job on a female (or male, if the main character is intended to be female) character.

bfett81
3rd Sep 2011, 18:44
Hi Bfett, I like the enthusiasm. You idea is cool. I hadn't considered Eve as a separate character from Adam, just the same person, but different gender. Maybe Eve could be a female clone of Adam, made in an effort to harvest DNA, with changes made for various reasons. Sounds like it could make good Fanfic. :cool:

A clone...good idea.

A female clone....so they can easily produce children with the Jensen DNA....to create an army?

Hmmmm!

sea
3rd Sep 2011, 18:48
Let the fanfics begin!

In seriousness, Adam is a more established character than, say, Alex D. You would have to redesign a lot of the dialogue and plot points to include a female protagonist as an option - and indeed, one of the big complaints against Alex D was that gender had almost no effect whatsoever on gameplay save for a few lines of dialogue, so I think it'd be pretty silly to just include a female protagonist without changing the game to reflect that, especially when so much has been built with a male protagonist in mind. It's certainly out of the scope of any DLC, but I suppose for a sequel it could make sense if we get a new protagonist on board.

That said, I don't really care that much about gender in a Deus Ex game - I'm playing as JC Denton, or Adam Jensen, or Alex D (I went female due to the less-annoying voice acting), not myself. I'd much rather have a more developed world and more mechanically sound and developed gameplay than what are largely aesthetic LARPing choices.

RKB287
3rd Sep 2011, 19:23
Hi Bfett, I like the enthusiasm. You idea is cool. I hadn't considered Eve as a separate character from Adam, just the same person, but different gender. Maybe Eve could be a female clone of Adam, made in an effort to harvest DNA, with changes made for various reasons. Sounds like it could make good Fanfic. :cool:

This is a pretty awesome idea. Shame that it would be too similar to the JC Denton/Alex Denton mechanic.

bucyrus5000
3rd Sep 2011, 19:27
A clone...good idea.

A female clone....so they can easily produce children with the Jensen DNA....to create an army?

Hmmmm!

Actually, if a lab were to clone a human for DNA, they would naturally prefer a female to a male to better protect their intellectual property, the DNA (particularly the sex cells). Spermatozoa (spunk) is easy to harvest and preserve in a freezer or fridge. Ovum (eggs) requires surgery to harvest and can only be kept for a short time and can not be frozen, also, without drugs, females only produce one egg a month. Another fact is, while DNA can be mapped from blood, skin, saliva, or mucus, it is often incomplete. For a complete and viable DNA sample for experimenting or reproduction, labs want sex cells. Female cells are often the preferred, mainly because (in this case) it is possible to trick eggs into reproduction using it's own DNA, without a spermatozoan. So if some lab has a human, who's DNA is worth protecting from theft and they want to experiment or create clones, the best situation is to have a female.

xeoncat
3rd Sep 2011, 21:32
It would be difficult and probably unnecessary to implement a female Jensen not only because of the technical difficulties, but because Jensen is an independent character from the player, he has a personality of his own. he's almost on par with Mass Effect's Shepard, although Shepard has much less development. Jensen is almost the opposite of the protagonist of Bethesda games like Elder Scrolls or Fallout where the main character doesn't even speak, because the avatar of the player is supposed to be the player himself/herself.

But I understand what a gamer girl might feel when playing Jensen. When I figured the main character of Portal was a woman I was like "omg dude! I'm a woman!" it feels strange, at least for me. I dunno if anyone else have had the same uncanny experience.

Anyway, I came up with a rule 63 of Jensen for fun ^^; hope you like it bucyrus5000

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/666005/evejensen.jpg

and a few doodles
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/666005/evedoodle.jpg

EricaLeeV
3rd Sep 2011, 21:39
But I understand what a gamer girl might feel when playing Jensen. When I figured the main character of Portal was a woman I was like "omg dude! I'm a woman!" it feels strange, at least for me. I dunno if anyone else have had the same uncanny experience.


No, I don't think it's weird to play as the opposite gender at all. Again, MOST all protagonists in games are males so I suppose I am just so used to it. Besides you shouldn't focus on the gender of the character so much; as the character qualities he or she possesses are far more important.


Oh yeah and nice drawing. ;)

unbeatableDX
3rd Sep 2011, 21:44
I would rather have a solid main character than getting to have the choice of different genders. Making a female character in addition to a male just adds a whole other set of issues with dialogue, story, and other aspects of the game.


indeed. waste of time.

Messire
3rd Sep 2011, 22:01
How can you peeps even compare Deus Ex with Mass effect? That's not very kind for the devs! I mean Bioware (or Elizabeth and Abraham maybe) ruined that game to the core!!! And that's a pretty cool and charismatic redhead bully female Shepard talking!

Loved that comment about missing Baldur's Gate...

xeoncat
3rd Sep 2011, 22:36
No, I don't think it's weird to play as the opposite gender at all. Again, MOST all protagonists in games are males so I suppose I am just so used to it. Besides you shouldn't focus on the gender of the character so much; as the character qualities he or she possesses are far more important.

I didn't mean that I focused on that, it just startled me for a while. For example when I played Mirror's Edge I didn't have that weird feeling, and that game is very immersive.



Oh yeah and nice drawing. ;)
Thank you ;)

sadmachine
3rd Sep 2011, 23:16
I love the idea of being able to play as either gender and seeing the way that changes the story and the way other characters treat you, but I hate the idea of losing content just to make room for additional voice-over work. The dearth of female main characters does suck, though; if Eidos was to do something wacky like put out an expansion (or expansion-sized DLC) where you play a bunch of side-missions as Malik I'd buy that in a heartbeat.

bucyrus5000
4th Sep 2011, 01:20
That's awesome Xeoncat! I like the detailing, very much in sync with the game.