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twoheart77
30th Aug 2011, 07:05
I just had the chance to play through the first level. I was feeling allot of anxiety about even playing this game, I loved the first two so much. My fears were realized upon starting it up and running around the office. It feels more like a movie witch could be played with a single button. the interactivity is limited to the gun, the dead bodies and a few boxes. The environment feels so detached, Bullet proof everything, cannot even open a cabinet door or blast glass apart.
These are features of the first two that made the game so involved, I have no sense of that here. While I do like the graphics, its almost like an incomplete game, were the whole physics addition to the objects in the environment were forgotten to be coded. With the nice detail on the environments it seems like a waste to not have this. I want to be able to sit there and shoot a beaker off the counter, smack a few computers around etc. Not to mention the fun I had with objects in the first two, Like throwing them at people till they get angry, or building a make shift barricade. What happened? has project management taken over to the detriment of gaming? It looks like this will go the way of another of my favorite games, red faction. Taking away some of the most fundamental features of a game is suicide, I hope there will be another and this issue will be fixed, sadly I play on.

Daedatheus
30th Aug 2011, 07:52
I just had the chance to play through the first level. I was feeling allot of anxiety about even playing this game, I loved the first two so much. My fears were realized upon starting it up and running around the office. It feels more like a movie witch could be played with a single button... Taking away some of the most fundamental features of a game is suicide, I hope there will be another and this issue will be fixed, sadly I play on.

Okay, seriously? Did you miss all the reviews and previews? Can you at least play past the very beginning of the game before forming an opinion on it?

Seriously. This is ridiculous. Are people LOOKING for excuses to hate this game?

twoheart77
30th Aug 2011, 08:33
Okay, seriously? Did you miss all the reviews and previews? Can you at least play past the very beginning of the game before forming an opinion on it?

Seriously. This is ridiculous. Are people LOOKING for excuses to hate this game?

Have you played the others? are you aware of the standards and conventions the first two put in place, and have now blatantly been omitted. I was remarking on the aspects the drew me into the series, and how they are no longer there. I am by no means looking to hate it, on the contrary I wished the world for this game. It seems there is a major flaw in development recently. Were publishers are taking games that are successful, and running them into the ground by not adhering to some basic principles to sequels. Namely retaining the feel and basic aspects to maintain its lineage. Sorry to see your jaded by all the remarks people have about this title, many of us feel strongly after playing the originals and loving them.

JCpies
30th Aug 2011, 08:42
I love the original game, the sequel not so much, but this game hammers Invisible War into the ground. We just have to accept that games are changing and that they can't cater for everybody's needs. That's what I've learnt anyway.

Have you seriously not played past the prologue? You're missing a lot.

twoheart77
30th Aug 2011, 08:53
I will be playing the rest of the game, I did buy it for PC. As well to carry on the story line and be prepared for any further iterations. I cited red faction, as I can see the same thing happening here, I hate to loose some of the most close and dear games I have played over the years. I miss throwing garbage at the npc's till they get pissed off :) as well as the other mischief I was able to get my self into.

JCpies
30th Aug 2011, 09:09
Come back when you've played at least half the game.

imported_the_guy
30th Aug 2011, 12:47
throwing garbage at the npc's till they get pissed off :) as well as the other mischief I was able to get my self into.

You can still do that, you know, after you've finished the prologue, there's stuff everywhere, like trash cans, fire extinguishers and vending machines, you'll just have to look harder.

Enraged Penguin
30th Aug 2011, 13:36
You can still do that, you know, after you've finished the prologue, there's stuff everywhere, like trash cans, fire extinguishers and vending machines, you'll just have to look harder.

Yeah there is quite a lot of things strewn around that you can interact with. Maybe not as much as the original Deus Ex (wouldn't know, haven't played it =/) but this is still one of the best games I've played in terms of being able to use random crap in the environment to your advantage.


You're probably going to want to take the heavy lifting augment to get the most out of it though. That way you can pick up things like fridges, vending machines, photocopiers e.t.c and use them as mobile cover. Or use them as projectiles to take down enemies (picking up a photocopier and launching it across a room so that it mushes someone into a wall is always fun).

Christ you can even put things like that to practical use outside of combat. You can use things like dumpsters to help you climb over high walls/fences e.t.c. There was even this one time where I wanted to break into this guy's apartment, but didn't have the hacking skill required to open his lock. So instead I broke into the apartment next door (it had a basic lock level of one), tore the fridge out of the wall, and launched it through the door of the first apartment. It took a few tries mind you, that door was HARD. But not as hard as a fridge, evidently.


So yeah maybe you can't throw paper cups at NPCs purely to aggravate them, but there's still a never ending list of things that you can do in this game if you're a creative thinker. Which I'm sure you will be, being a gamer. I don't care what anyone says, gaming improves lateral thinking. That's one positive thing you can take from playing too many videogames lol.

Itkovian
30th Aug 2011, 13:48
There are more things to interact with, quite frankly, than in DX1.

The difference is in DX:HR there is a LOOOT more _stuff_ placed all around the level, and 99% of it cannot be touched. So it creates the impression that nothing can be interacted with.

BUT, this is PRECISELY what makes the levels feel and look so _real_. There is REAMS of details in each and every nook and cranny of the game, with "props" placed everywhere. It feels truly lived in. If I go into someone's office, I can actually learn about the person whose office this is just by looking around. Nowhere is this better demonstrated than in Jensen's own apartment and office.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd much rather have DX:HR's cluttered environments w/ relatively few interactive items, than DX1's fully-interactive rooms with a handful of objects in total.

Itkovian

twoheart77
30th Aug 2011, 14:59
Hmmmm, I better get to playing this more. I will hope that in the next game they do bring back some of the fun elements of physics that I love. I wish those damn beakers would explode when I shoot them though, on the flip side I love the music and the textures are smooth. I get to play this on a optoma hd66 at 220 inches, looks awesome that is why I wished the environment was more interactive. Each item is pretty much real life size in terms of ratio.

Metatron1337
30th Aug 2011, 15:53
Hmmmm, I better get to playing this more. I will hope that in the next game they do bring back some of the fun elements of physics that I love. I wish those damn beakers would explode when I shoot them though, on the flip side I love the music and the textures are smooth. I get to play this on a optoma hd66 at 220 inches, looks awesome that is why I wished the environment was more interactive. Each item is pretty much real life size in terms of ratio.

I totally agree with you on most of your points, you should consider that this game has been simultaneously designed for consoles however.

The current-gen consoles run ancient hardware, nowhere near the capabilities of mid-class PC's of today, thus games like Deus Ex HR, Crysis 2, Portal 2 and Red Faction Armageddon/Guerilla have to suffer from the harsh limitations the weak hardware leashes them onto.

On a pure PC game you could fill the levels with physics activated objects, make every table and chair interactive, every bottle and picture frame and every piece of paper laying around. No problem at all.

And while this game is said to be a console game on par with PC games (and it truly is a great PC game) the level design was made to go hand in hand with both versions to save a LOT of time. So the levels were created with static objects, not with interactive ones. To ask of the devs to replace every static object with a dynamic version in every level of the game for the PC version, would boarder on insanity.
Even if it would be absolutely possible and would add a totally new level of depth to the game.

If a SDK is ever published, I bet it would be possible to pull this off in form of a mod however. (That is, if a level editor is released... else you wouldn't be able to change the structure of the level and convert all the elements you want to be interactive into physic objects.)

Sponge
30th Aug 2011, 23:50
When I saw how much clutter was actually in the game (compared to the empty desks and bare floors of Deus Ex) I actually found it a bit of a relief that I could maneuver around stealthily without worrying about knocking stuff over constantly.

Enraged Penguin
31st Aug 2011, 00:00
When I saw how much clutter was actually in the game (compared to the empty desks and bare floors of Deus Ex) I actually found it a bit of a relief that I could maneuver around stealthily without worrying about knocking stuff over constantly.

Oh I still managed to do that lol. I guess I'm just clumsy. I lost count of how many times I accidentally nudged a stack of barrels whilst trying to ninja my way through my no alarms playthrough. There was one time where I actually walked into one and it rolled into a laser grid and set off the alarm -_-

ufo8mycat
31st Aug 2011, 01:21
All I can say is I am glad I am not one of those people where small things don't ruin the game for me. Even if everything like all the clutter you see in offices were interactive, I wouldn't bother wasting my time throwing these things at people, as I will be too busy playing the game.

There was one person on another forum where Jenson having a missing shadow or something? ruined the fun factor and immersion for him. I mean seriously just because theres no shadow, immersion is ruined?


You should really try and stop worrying and try not to have little things bother you and impact your enjoyment or immersion of the game, you will enjoy gaming A LOT more. :o

twoheart77
10th Sep 2011, 09:02
All I can say is I am glad I am not one of those people where small things don't ruin the game for me. Even if everything like all the clutter you see in offices were interactive, I wouldn't bother wasting my time throwing these things at people, as I will be too busy playing the game.

There was one person on another forum where Jenson having a missing shadow or something? ruined the fun factor and immersion for him. I mean seriously just because theres no shadow, immersion is ruined?


You should really try and stop worrying and try not to have little things bother you and impact your enjoyment or immersion of the game, you will enjoy gaming A LOT more. :o

playing what though, I think what you call a game is a single track on rails one button experience. And it is not about the little things, its about the outright omission of the ORIGINAL things that made this game so fun and compelling to play an explore new ways to play it.

Fox89
10th Sep 2011, 10:37
playing what though, I think what you call a game is a single track on rails one button experience. And it is not about the little things, its about the outright omission of the ORIGINAL things that made this game so fun and compelling to play an explore new ways to play it.

Yeah... seeing as you were lauding Invisible War up there with the original, I get the impression you are being unfair on Human Revolution. Just because even if you don't rate it with the original, it is a VAST improvement on the sequel.

It seems to be your main complaint is "Why can't all these areas be mostly empty?" because that is what it would take to make everything interactive.

sjvan0
10th Sep 2011, 12:14
There are more things to interact with, quite frankly, than in DX1.

Things you can pick up and throw in DX:HR:
-Vending Machines
-Fridges
-Small cardboard boxes
-Medium cardboard boxes
-Large cardboard boxes
-Crates
-Bigger crates
-Metal crates
-Bigger metal crates
-Dumpsters
-Turrets
-Bright red explosive barrels
-Gas cannisters
-Bodies
-A Basketball

Things you could pick up and throw in DX1.
-Office chairs
-Comfy chairs
-Couches-Small pot plants
-Larger pot plants
-Cardboard boxes
-Small metal crates
-Large metal crates
-Small, explosive metal crates
-Trash cans
-Flags
-Cleaning trolleys
-Small, round vases
-Larger, longer vases
-Trophies
-Bodies
-More than 1 basketball

As you can see, DX1 has about 17 throwable objects, while DXHR has around 15 (I've probably forgotten a few on both games). Also, the items in DX1 are decidedly less focused on the theme of "rectangle".

CarpeNukemXVIII
10th Sep 2011, 12:15
Like someone else stated, I'd much rather have more decorated, but static enviroments that have a few items to interact with, to more empty enviroments that let you interact with everything.

imported_BoB_
10th Sep 2011, 12:35
Things you could pick up and throw in DX1.


Besides, you couldn't throw things in Deus Ex anyway :D

Personally, I understand completely what they tried to do, because you can get a lot of information about the characters just looking at your environment, and narrative through props, it's a pretty unique thing in a videogame. They didn't necessarly want that all their hard work (because there is a lot of work put into it, it's obvious) would blow as soon as the player started to go gun crazy on the scenery.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it was more a design decision than a technical restriction.

mad825
10th Sep 2011, 12:41
Come back when you've played at least half the game.

...And when he can at least make paragraphs.

Jel
10th Sep 2011, 12:41
Like someone else stated, I'd much rather have more decorated, but static enviroments that have a few items to interact with, to more empty enviroments that let you interact with everything.

Pretty much the same, although, with a few basic rules, like:

1)All items of certain type should either be static or interact-able, there were some cardboard-boxes that were nailed to the floor and some weren't, the same with other types of things, I can move some photocopiers and not some? Why? This doesn't work.

2) The clutter needs to have a meaning: Why exactly there is many same books in every office/apartment, I know I don't have multiple copies of books etc. And the items need to reflect the personality of the owner, as well as their placement, not everyone piles books on the floor etc.etc.

jd10013
10th Sep 2011, 13:15
playing what though, I think what you call a game is a single track on rails one button experience. And it is not about the little things, its about the outright omission of the ORIGINAL things that made this game so fun and compelling to play an explore new ways to play it.



if you think throwing flower pots and vase's at manderly so you could hear him say "grow up JC" over and over was what made DX fun and compelling then you missed what the game was really about.

sjvan0
10th Sep 2011, 13:29
Besides, you couldn't throw things in Deus Ex anyway :D

Personally, I understand completely what they tried to do, because you can get a lot of information about the characters just looking at your environment, and narrative through props, it's a pretty unique thing in a videogame. They didn't necessarly want that all their hard work (because there is a lot of work put into it, it's obvious) would blow as soon as the player started to go gun crazy on the scenery.

Maybe I'm wrong but I think it was more a design decision than a technical restriction. Heck, the player wouldn't even need to go gun crazy, just accidentally bumping into it would be enough to mess up the place. I certainly wouldn't want to have to deal with books flying around in Jensen's apartment just because I walked a bit too quickly, for example. It *would* have made stealth a bit more interesting, though. Instead of having to worry about knocking over just that stack of crates, you'd also have to worry about the coffee cup on the desk you're crawling on, that pile of books on the coffee table over there, the chair you accidentally bumped into coming off the desk, etc.


Besides, you couldn't throw things in Deus Ex anyway :D

...yes you could? Pretty sure you just left-clicked to throw them, same as DXHR. Maybe my memory's off, though, but I pretty distinctly remember throwing the basketball, TNT crates, etc, a fair distance.

imported_BoB_
10th Sep 2011, 16:16
Well, you didn't really throw things. You barely put them down a little further. Not at all like in Invisible War or Human Revolution.

I mean, if you "threw" a TNT crate in front of you without moving, you pretty much died right there, it was that far ^^
Even the tiniest objects, except the basketball. It was the Unreal Engine after all, so it required special rewriting of the code I suppose.

MaxxQ1
10th Sep 2011, 20:19
Things you can pick up and throw in DX:HR:
-Vending Machines
-Fridges
-Small cardboard boxes
-Medium cardboard boxes
-Large cardboard boxes
-Crates
-Bigger crates
-Metal crates
-Bigger metal crates
-Dumpsters
-Turrets
-Bright red explosive barrels
-Gas cannisters
-Bodies
-A Basketball
-Photocopiers

Things you could pick up and throw in DX1.
-Office chairs
-Comfy chairs
-Couches-Small pot plants
-Larger pot plants
-Cardboard boxes
-Small metal crates
-Large metal crates
-Small, explosive metal crates
-Trash cans
-Flags
-Cleaning trolleys
-Small, round vases
-Larger, longer vases
-Trophies
-Bodies
-More than 1 basketball
-Microscopes (I think)
-Any item from your inventory (HR only allows you to drop inventory items except grenades and mines)

As you can see, DX1 has about 17 throwable objects, while DXHR has around 15 (I've probably forgotten a few on both games). Also, the items in DX1 are decidedly less focused on the theme of "rectangle".

Amended.

jd10013
10th Sep 2011, 20:42
I don't think you could throw things from your inventory. you could drop them, but that wasn't the same. the reason you couldn't throw them is cause you couldn't hold them.

exmachinad
10th Sep 2011, 23:18
the interactivity is limited to the gun, the dead bodies and a few boxes

I do miss interactivity as well. I turned off the "object highlight" at first, but not long after I turned it on again, since so few things are interactive and I had to keep guessing what I could move / pick and what I coud not.

I was amazed with Half-Life 2 in 2004 and with Oblivion in 2006 by the sheer amount of interactivity. Why can't a 2011 game have this? As pointed out, for its time the first DX did it so much better.


It seems to be your main complaint is "Why can't all these areas be mostly empty?" because that is what it would take to make everything interactive.


I'd much rather have more decorated, but static enviroments that have a few items to interact with, to more empty enviroments that let you interact with everything.

I point (again) the examples of Half-Life 2 and Oblivion. They did it. Amazingly well. YEARS ago. And it is not as if HR has that much of "decoration" anyway.


Just because even if you don't rate it with the original, it is a VAST improvement on the sequel.

Just because you (or even the 'majority') have the opinion that HR is a VAST improvement on the sequel, it doesn't mean that every single being agrees with it. It was said some (several?) times around the internet, and I agree that, overall, as game in itself, HR is (probably) better than IW, but as a Deus Ex game, IW is better.


I don't think you could throw things from your inventory. you could drop them, but that wasn't the same. the reason you couldn't throw them is cause you couldn't hold them.

You are talking about DX1? Yes you could. Items like cigars, wine and such, for example. You could HOLD any item from your inventory, using the EQUIP, and then use the button to throw it.

I suggest people replay the first DX instead of affirming things that they are not certain of or that just don't remember correctly at all.

MaxxQ1
11th Sep 2011, 00:01
I don't think you could throw things from your inventory. you could drop them, but that wasn't the same. the reason you couldn't throw them is cause you couldn't hold them.

I was referring to DX, in which you *can* hold any item from your inventory by equipping it from inside the inventory (or from the tool belt), and then you can throw the item by clicking the "use" key (RMB for me). For instance, you can equip a multitool from the inventory or toolbelt, then right click to throw it at Maggie Chow (or you could point it at a camera or control box and left click to use it for what it's intended for).

6Yhky437kqA

jd10013
11th Sep 2011, 00:12
looks to me like they're just being dropped on her head. but I get what your saying. equipping and pressing tab did the same thing. I still don't know if I'd call it throwing, but I guess I see where you could.

MaxxQ1
11th Sep 2011, 00:17
looks to me like they're just being dropped on her head. but I get what your saying. equipping and pressing tab did the same thing. I still don't know if I'd call it throwing, but I guess I see where you could.

Maybe thrown objects don't go as far in DX as they do in HR (which I thought had thrown objects going *too* far - at one point today, during my second playthrough of the hostage mission, I threw a cardboard box all the way across the frikkin' warehouse - I did *not* have the strength aug yet), but they most definitely go farther than just dropping them.

jd10013
11th Sep 2011, 01:13
I suggest people replay the first DX instead of affirming things that they are not certain of or that just don't remember correctly at all.

pretentious much?

Random
11th Sep 2011, 01:25
It's not just about the things you can pick up and throw either. Interactivity extends to things like turning TVs on and off (in HR), turning light switches on and off (in DX1), turning on taps and flushing toilets (both games). DX1 tended to have more of these interactive objects in the world.

More importantly, in DX1 almost everything that was placed in the world could be interacted with in some way, and so it was a consistent world. HR has some things you can interact with -- but also a huge amount of stuff that is totally static, and so the world is inconsistent. Obviously HR has more objects in the world and it requires a lot of resources to make things interactive -- but they also had a much larger team, more money and more time.

MaxxQ1
11th Sep 2011, 01:40
It's not just about the things you can pick up and throw either. Interactivity extends to things like turning TVs on and off (in HR), turning light switches on and off (in DX1), turning on taps and flushing toilets (both games). DX1 tended to have more of these interactive objects in the world.

Agreed. Something like the water fountains in DX are a good example of useful interactivity - you could actually gain health by using them. Of course, with HR, there was no need for that, since it has regen health, but then you have to wonder what was the point of having them work to begin with?


More importantly, in DX1 almost everything that was placed in the world could be interacted with in some way, and so it was a consistent world. HR has some things you can interact with -- but also a huge amount of stuff that is totally static, and so the world is inconsistent. Obviously HR has more objects in the world and it requires a lot of resources to make things interactive -- but they also had a much larger team, more money and more time.

A good example here are the labs in DX - almost every one of them have some sort of cabinet where you could open or close the glass fronts on them.

I think my biggest issue with interactivity in HR is that it's completely inconsistent. Why is one cardboard box in a room able to be interacted with, but the one it's sitting on isn't? Why are some crates moveable, and the exact same crate on the other side of the room isn't? If it weren't for this sort of inconsistency, we wouldn't need highlighting - we would find out in the earlier missions what objects can be used and which ones cannot, and take it from there. As it is now, you *need* the highlighting to figure out what can and can't be moved.

ocstew
11th Sep 2011, 02:13
OK twohearts, if you're such a veteran at looking at detail, did you notice the objects in the first office that you could interact with and get dialogue from, with Megan? Like the racing car, the book and the computer? I didn't think so.

ocstew
11th Sep 2011, 02:18
Also, as I remember, Half Life 2 was bare, Deus Ex was bare too. All they had were environments with a few tidbits of moveable items, a far cry from the more static but believable HR.

unbeatableDX
11th Sep 2011, 04:14
All I can say is I am glad I am not one of those people where small things don't ruin the game for me. :o

i would feel the same too. however its not just interaction there is plenty of things missing in this game from dx1

LordWeasel
11th Sep 2011, 04:20
OK twohearts, if you're such a veteran at looking at detail, did you notice the objects in the first office that you could interact with and get dialogue from, with Megan? Like the racing car, the book and the computer? I didn't think so.

I actually missed them because of the highlight system (was looking for highlighted objects, instead of just... objects), and it annoys the the crap out of me :(.

And closing in on 30 dangerously fast, I do consider myself an "old-school" gamer.

unbeatableDX
11th Sep 2011, 04:45
Amended.

there is much more interaction in dx1 to be had than just throwing things, like random said.

pinball machines, water coolers, hidden switches that open up secret areas, cups, sofas, chairs, draws and cabinets actually open as opposed to DX:HR loot menu, rats(shoot em, stamp on em) and all the other animals, then this list-
Things you could pick up and throw in DX1.
-Office chairs
-Comfy chairs
-Couches-Small pot plants
-Larger pot plants
-Cardboard boxes
-Small metal crates
-Large metal crates
-Small, explosive metal crates
-Trash cans
-Flags
-Cleaning trolleys
-Small, round vases
-Larger, longer vases
-Trophies
-Bodies
-More than 1 basketball
-Microscopes (I think)
-Any item from your inventory (HR only allows you to drop inventory items except grenades and mines

and then theres there is many more usable objects- rebreathers, armour, hazard suit, camo suit, tech goggles, fire extinguisher, soda, zyme, candybar, noodles, multitools, lockpicks, medkits, biocells, wine, forty, cigarettes, flares, nanokeys, weapon mods, books, datacubes, news bulletins, ammo, weapons, grenades, melee weapons, computers, keypads, faucets, doors, toilets, lightswitches, hologram projectors, valves, vent gratings and newspapers.

interaction is one of MANY things that deus ex human revolution is lacking in compared to deus ex 1. deus ex 1 will always be the king, hence the name unbeatableDX

Grimesy
11th Sep 2011, 05:12
In my opinion, compared to the games the grownup-industry pumps out nowadays,
DX:HR is *exactly* like the original, with DX compared to its own generation of games.

DX had a lot of interactivity for its days, but you cannot compare that to DX:HR, you'll have to
compare HR with today's games, CoD:MW anyone? If you do, you'll have to admit
DX:HR is very interactive

(Darn industry is just like my kids, I don't want it/them to grow up:mad2:)

unbeatableDX
11th Sep 2011, 05:18
(Darn industry is just like my kids, I don't want it/them to grow up:mad2:)
LOL. life sucks indeed. the video game industry has lost its innocence, it now does shady deals(DLC) hangs around with girls(ign,sqeenix) has acne(severe gameplay and other faults) and answers back (i used a AUD on a computer today in DX:HR, then i tried using another AUD on it cos my hand slipped, it told me to "be patient, the device is unlocking")

tet5uo
11th Sep 2011, 17:49
It's the consoles man.

If they designed games without this limit in mind we could easily have whole levels full of stuff to interact with. Everythig you see could be an object that has physics.

But since the toasters have to run this game too, they need to tone it down a LOT form what could be possible.

The levels could have been massive too instead of these little collections of hallways and vents with a few rooms.

jd10013
11th Sep 2011, 17:58
I thought the level size was fine. they were at least as big as what was in the original

hazard001
11th Sep 2011, 18:47
I actually missed them because of the highlight system (was looking for highlighted objects, instead of just... objects), and it annoys the the crap out of me :(.

And closing in on 30 dangerously fast, I do consider myself an "old-school" gamer.

I found the computer and something else. Don't think I found this racecar and I was really trying to find stuff my first time in that office...

With it all said and done, I prefer the highlighting on in this game.

jd10013
11th Sep 2011, 20:20
highlighting takes the fun out of exploring, and often times makes it unnecessary.

markchapman
5th Oct 2011, 15:29
I'm not sure to what extent technical possibilities verses game play are responsible for object interactivity but I expect that if you have played games halflife 1998, through halflife2/Doom3 in 2004, Crysis 2007 you expect the features of each to accumulate rather than being selected between in the most recent games. For example - more destructible environments such as Red faction and Crysis, individual faces such as in the Chronicles of Riddick Butcher bay, better facial animation like Half life2, better physics and object interactivity, vehicles like halo, Crysis, Far Cry, cooperative bits like halflife2, left4dead etc. And I would like to have seen more animals and creatures such as cats, dogs, birds, greasels etc.

markchapman
25th Sep 2012, 20:26
I did enjoy playing Deus ex human revolution but I was wondering about a few points:
1. It seemed to me that there was a great increment in computer graphics, animation and physics with the introduction of half-life 2. I guess the quality of graphic detail has improved since then but seems only incremental when compared with the leap from 1998 to 2004. Deus ex HR’s design looks very nice - Heng Sha was particularly interesting but the environments seem rather static, for example, items on desk in the main did not move and could not be interacted with. Some glass panels, boxed and NPGs were affected by weapons. Greater interactivity though not relevant to the plot gives and artificial environments vitality – it brings it to life, otherwise it looks pretty but is otherwise flat.
2. When you see an item in the environment you would like to go there and take a look. For example, in Detroit there was a transit system but you could not use it. In Heng Sha there was the Pangu but there was no access apart from the TYM tower.
3. With the advent of left 4 dead, assassin’s creed and GTA IV, game developers introduced a large number of NPGs on the screen at the same time. In the cityscapes of AC and GTA the larger number of NPGs brought the places to life creating a real sense of bustle. Heng Sha actually seem quite flat even though it was supposed to be a place noir of illicit activities for Pangu dwellers (where are the drunken partiers, the brawling men, the giggling office drones?).
4. With the recent games AC, GTA and the like large seamless maps are presented with no obvious load sections (I think AC would load when entering a building). Deus ex maps still seemed a bit tight.
5. Game play – all the NPGs are either suicidal or incredibly ‘brave’. They don’t seem able to either to be just wounded or give up and run away.
6. In the original Deus ex there were some great animal animations – I don’t think I saw any animals at all.
7. Boss fights – I can’t stand being looked into an arena with a boss and the only way to advance the game is to defeat them. Boss fights are usually wars of attrition; there must be smarter option to defeat bosses – e.g. the kill switch in the original Deus ex. i.e. defeating a boss is a simple puzzle not just an endurance test. The bosses where presumably based on a slightly older technology than Jensen yet were a hell of a lot tougher – that was an odd disparity.
8. The game ending – kill 4 prostrate/crucified women to advance the game. There should be an option to rescue – isn’t Deus ex about options?
9. It seemed as though Deus Ex rather than the trend setting game of the early 00’s give the impression of being behind the times. I was wondering the reason for this was that the developer, though I’m sure could have accomplished all those things, perhaps did not have the time and budget to do so.
10. Other games now have coop NPGs.
11. A feature which should be in the future of RPG gaming are game characters that you could actually hold a improvised conversation with. Sentence parsers for adventure games have been around for 30 years and even the oldest one I have seen seem to be able to make a fair guess about what you are asking. Ideally, rather than text, emotive speech synthesis based on a captured voice artist provide improvised speech, speech recognition for input (sounds technically complex, resource hungry).

Sermon ends…

Shralla
26th Sep 2012, 00:07
What the hell is an NPG?

Senka
26th Sep 2012, 02:03
Non-Playable Goober?

CodenameD
25th Oct 2012, 06:37
It's the limitation of the Consoles like someone said. Even if EM wanted to make DXHR like the original DX (yet maintaining all modern features) they couldn't. Square Enix or whoever is funding the whole project does not want it to be that way.

DX had all that freedom, customization and interactivity because the devs were free to add as many things they could based on the PC hardware limitations of that time. What else console came out then? PS2? Yeah, we've all seen how much they were forced to chop the levels in DX:The Conspiracy.

Now if the devs of DXHR would have went hell-bent to go on a PC first, console later strategy they'd been surefire fired. SE runs the show now. All modern publishers/devs want to go the console first strategy because it saves them time and money. It's good for business; screw whatever happens to gameplay (not implying that HR gameplay was bad by any means).

Example? DX:IW. HR is definitely a step up from DX:IW but like IW, HR is a good game in its own right. Like IW, it was console first (thank god they've made the smarter decision to use Crystal Engine. Although I think Unreal Engine 3 would have been just fine for large maps). Both are nowhere near as complex as the original. But HR has overall better execution and "closer-to-DX" gameplay than IW ever was.

In the end, the original is original and the only game/mod/total-conversion that actually tried to recreate the original DX experience was The Nameless Mod (hats off to Off Topic Productions). And it appeared pretty successful to me. I love HR as much as i love IW. Both are not absolutely like the original. But both are great games on their own.

antisouless
25th Oct 2012, 13:21
Not only do I agree whore-heatedly. I'll raise the complaint to lighting effects.
Deus Ex 2 had some AMAZING lighting effects for the time. Also...stuffing bodies into lockers lmao.