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Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 03:52
ITT: Forum Regulars discuss everything and anything about DX:HR

Being a FORUM REGULAR: That means you've been on these forums for an extended period of time BEFORE RELEASE, and posted more or less regularly.

It never fails that as soon as you ask someone not to do something, they do it. This is not about being elitist. And I'm not saying visitors and newbs can't post in this thread, because you are capable of it. What I am doing is asking you politely not to, please. This is about the community that built up before release. The reason I'd rather visit a forum like this than the boards at 4chan is because of the identities that exist here. It's not a stream of thousands of different anonymous people, but rather people I recognize, people I have talked to before, and people I've gotten to know (limited albeit) and respect.

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I'll start things off with a brief overview. When I have time to write a full review I'll post it later.

Grading: C is average, B is above average, A is nearing perfection, D is below average, F is unacceptable

Final Verdict: SO CLOSE!!!! It's painful.
Grading as...
Modern cyber-punk RPG/FPS: B+
Worthy Sequel to Deus Ex: D+

Human Revolution’s “Deus Ex quality” story, settings, and (superior) visuals strike a soul-rending discord when packaged with painfully inadequate game “play and design” and narrative delivery. The former brings to mind the Deus Ex experience, only to be dashed violently upon the latter. Human Revolution begs for the whole Deus Ex package, which has been violently ripped from it by poor design decisions: most notably, cutting out original Deus Ex mechanics and ignoring the design philosophy that gave rise to the remarkable experiences of the original.

For Dugas: “Never was it a good idea to take things out or “simplify” a game design for a sequel; as it could have been any one of, or all together, the game mechanics and design philosophy of the original which made it great for any particular player. Game design does not mean you have to control every aspect of the player’s experience. In fact, it is one of the virtues and strengths of video-games that the player can interact with the medium in personal and unique ways, while the game design itself creates the means and world in which this happens. Designing hard-core games for the casual-gamer is a mistake. A casual gamer will not play hard-core games, and diluting the experience for the audience who will play the game in an attempt to attract an audience that will never play the game only subtracts value from the world. Designing a game by what everyone else in the industry is doing is likewise a mistake: prominence is only achieved by leaving the crowd behind.”

Was the Paul scene there? Yes, there was Malik. Was the bathroom scene there? Yes, there was Pritchard. But they mean nothing because they are only throw-backs to the original.

Ask yourself this, would these elements have been in DX:HR had they not been in the original? No. Whereas Paul’s apartment scene arose as a consequence of Deus Ex’s design philosophy, EM’s approach to DX:HR would have precluded its existence.

This is why Dishonored is likely to be Deus Ex’s true spiritual successor. During DX:HR’s development, Dugas and Anfossi were pleased to announce that one of their players “threw boxes at mines”… thus proving the emergent qualities of DX:HR. Colantino and Harvey were pleased to announce that one of their players “stopped time, possessed a guard, walked him in front of his own bullet, and resumed time”, thus proving the emergent qualities of Dishonored. One of these games demonstrates what Deus Ex could have been like now, 10 years later, one of them does not.

Story: B+
-- Main Arc Plot: A (Philosophy, conspiracy, ties to original, cyber-punk) -- A little too predictable and obvious - no subtlety here.
-- Character Design: B (Inconsistent)
-- Narrative Implementation: C (suffers from lack of original design philosophy -- choices in dialoguical structure -- characters appear once and disappear forever -- choices leave no lasting mark nor come back to affect Jensen later)
-- Sub plots: C+ (Side-narratives too frayed and shallow)
What I would have liked to see:
Better pacing
More characterization and exploration of supporting characters -- better integration with main arc
Organic player-directed narrative growth in consistent “simulation” -- as opposed to cut-scene heavy linear designer-dictated paths

Graphics: A
-- Visual Design: A+ (Black and gold cyber renaissance really works for me)
---- Environmental Design: A+ (Oh my god, that convention center needs to be a real place, and walking through Heng Sha blew my mind)
---- Character Design: A (I love the character design, memorable and unique, some of the characters didn’t translate to 3d models as well as could have been hoped)
-- Animations: D (While the idiosyncratic robotic dialogue animations grow on you, smoother more defined animations would have worked wonders with the visual design.)
What I would have liked to see:
Better animations

Game-play: C-
-- Level design (mutli-path: hacking/stealth/combat/social): C (Too many corridors and clearly-designed paths create a dissonant world-player relationship, this world has been crafted for the player, rather than having an objective and challenges to overcome organically, the player simply has an objective and may choose different pre-set paths to get to it: genuine player exploration and creative limit-pushing is discouraged if not right out prohibited. However, the city hubs approached true Deus Ex quality by nature. I think the level design was still too confined (one of the major flaws of DX:IW). An open and spacious level design often hides the crafted element.)
---- Stealth: C+ (Smooth stealth, great aug choices complement stealth gameplay... often way too easy -- over-reliant on visual information)
---- Hacking: C- (as mini-games go... not bad--it's EVERYWHERE though and over-incentivized)
---- Combat: B- (Combat is good... difficult and well-balanced... tiered enemies and above-average AI - skills missing though)
---- Social: B+ (I really loved this addition to the Deus Ex formula (the only thing they actually added))
-- “Quest” design: C (Linear journal tracked quests rather than a reactive world simulation – EM copped out and used artificial states and barriers to shoe-horn the player into a “mediocre” experience of their design, rather than creating a world and letting the player write his own story by exploring and interacting with it himself)
-- Game mechanic diversity: F (Every mechanic (augmentation, weapon, device) has a clear purpose, and each purpose has a clear mechanic, and each purpose-mechanic has clear application for the designers to put in a level and check off their list)
-- Experience mechanic: C (Unbalanced. Certain activities are over-incentivized)
-- AI: B+ (The AI is excellent: not perfect, but excellent).
What I would have liked to see:
Everything from the original + more:
Skills
Utility devices (lock-picks, re-breathers (swimming), multi-tools, therm-optic camo, etc.)
Melee combat (energy-independent stealth take-down)
CASIE-independent persuasion outside of boss-battles
Organic, open level design
Immersive sim design principles
Less frequent, more difficult, and heavier consequence hacking (an example would be a single hack gives player access to different levels of control of entire building/level)
Over-lapping applications


Role-play: C
-- Augmentations: C- (Limited)
-- Skills: F (Non-existent)
-- Mechanical choices for play-style: D- (One way to tackle each pre-designed path)
-- Immersive setting: B+ (Nailed cyber-punk right on the head, suffers from game-play and quest design mediocrity)
What I would have liked to see:
More and varied augmentations – optionally installed in LIMB clinics
Skills – all from original + more
Over-lapping applications
Better “side-quest” design

Sound: C
-- Music: C (McCann scores bland, repetitive, unmemorable tracks—still works with game)
-- Sound Design: C (Sounds seem okay and where they should be. Nothing remarkable.)
What I would have liked to hear:
Melodic ambience: subtle and numerous motif integration

Other:
--Gun design: C
What I would have liked to see:
Higher-tech weaponry – more and varied modability – ammo types – removable mods – skill based specialization


I don't think I'll ever be able to play DX:HR again.
Not because the game is bad at all... it's a decent game by modern standards... if it were farther away from Deus Ex I might be able to enjoy it... but it's so close to achieving the truly remarkable experience of Deus Ex that I cannot play it without a little piece of my soul dying in disappointment.

Daedatheus
30th Aug 2011, 05:18
Cool story bro. Let's see some of the games you've made.

Are there games or movies you don't like? BRO BRO BRO LET'S SEE SOME OF THE MOVIES YOU'VE MADE BRO
Perhaps you don't like to eat peanuts. LET'S SEE SOME OF THE PEANUTS YOU'VE MADE



Sound: C
-- Music: C (McCann scores bland, repetitive, unmemorable tracks—still works with game)
-- Sound Design: C- (Sounds seem okay and where they should be. Nothing remarkable. Sometimes feels very low-budget.)
What I would have liked to hear:
Melodic ambience: subtle and numerous motif integration

I honestly thought the sound design was quite good. I agree that the score could have been so much more. Sadly, that wouldn't have just made the score itself better, but truly elevated the rest of the experience.

But yeah, GREAT weapon sounds, movement sounds, etc. You don't feel like a walking tank, but you also don't feel like a skittering man in high heels. (DX1 anyone?) Augs sound great, environments sound right, etc.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 06:48
Are there games or movies you don't like? BRO BRO BRO LET'S SEE SOME OF THE MOVIES YOU'VE MADE BRO
Perhaps you don't like to eat peanuts. LET'S SEE SOME OF THE PEANUTS YOU'VE MADE



I honestly thought the sound design was quite good. I agree that the score could have been so much more. Sadly, that wouldn't have just made the score itself better, but truly elevated the rest of the experience.

But yeah, GREAT weapon sounds, movement sounds, etc. You don't feel like a walking tank, but you also don't feel like a skittering man in high heels. (DX1 anyone?) Augs sound great, environments sound right, etc.

I suppose you're right. I'm not big on sound design in video games. Either it works and I don't pay much attention to it, or it doesn't and then I do. When it's truly remarkable in some way, that's when I'd give it a higher than average score: when it's important to both game-play and atmosphere. The last game whose sound design stood out to me had to have been Amnesia the Dark Descent, which had great atmosphere and incorporated sound extremely well into the horror and stealth aspects. And before that would probably have been Bioshock which used it well in the under-water city.

Random
30th Aug 2011, 06:54
Because no matter what we'd never get the same "HOLY CRAP" experience we all got from the original Deus Ex while steadfastly maintaining that a game must have X criteria in order to be a Deus Ex game.

You might be right that we wouldn't get quite the same experience, but I do think Eidos could have tried harder instead of allowing inappropriate inspirations like Metal Gear Solid and other Cool, Emotional, Cinematic rubbish to infest the game. This isn't just about expectations, it's about fundamental and identifiable design differences.

I agree with much of Rindill says, though I'm probably less positive about it overall.

I also agree that Dishonored will be a better spiritual successor to the Deus Ex and Looking Glass legacy, at least in intent. Whether it succeeds as a package, we'll see.

I've posted my thoughts about HR here: http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1666440&postcount=14

Daedatheus
30th Aug 2011, 06:56
The last game whose sound design stood out to me had to have been Amnesia the Dark Descent, which had great atmosphere and incorporated sound extremely well into the horror and stealth aspects. And before that would probably have been Bioshock which used it well in the under-water city.

I pay a lot of attention to the smaller and more subtle sounds. I find these really add a lot of the richness of immersion for me, being an audio-focused guy career-wise. After all, sight and sound are the only two sense that current videogames can really take advantage of, and sound is sooo important to making things "feel" right, just as important as the visuals for many aspects, but people tend not to notice that reality. Imagine if the boxguards made little piddly noises when walking around, they wouldn't feel heavy and menacing as they should. Or if the same concrete footstep sounds were made on carpets, vents, metal, etc., constantly reminding you that you don't actually have feet and there is no ground, and that sound files are being triggered by code in a game engine repeatedly - and probably the same 3 or 4 footstep sounds over and over again.

Amnesia had great sound design and you really did rely on it in dark environments to figure out what you were doing. You also had to pay attention to how much sound you made, and it added to lots of scares, so it was indeed incorporated into the gameplay. Bioshock had a lot of great SOUNDS I think, but the overall DESIGN was almost too much in your face. Long lines of dialogue trail on simultaneously with gunshots, explosions, in-game objects playing music and the symphonic score also playing. It felt messy, but individually very rich.

As an overall soundscape DXHR satisfied me very much, without sacrificing the punch of augmentation sounds or the subtlety of picking up an item. I found it impressive that the lead sound designer had only worked on portable game sound before.

There's an issue with the volumes though, at their defaults the dialogue seems way too loud in some parts and the music is set too low. Thankfully we can fix that in the options menu.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 07:32
There's an issue with the volumes though, at their defaults the dialogue seems way too loud in some parts and the music is set too low. Thankfully we can fix that in the options menu.

I think I'm beginning to see what you mean. The music did seem low and the dialogue was quite loud now that I think about it.

The box-guards are one of my favorite things from the game. They made them way too weak to EMP attacks though. A single EMP grenade taking out an entire box-guard is WAY too easy. The augmented boss fights took more damage than a box-guard could. I'd love to see them beefed up a bit in a patch or what-not.

The sound did work well with the game though.

If you had to give the sound a grade, what would it be?

JCpies
30th Aug 2011, 08:47
"OMG DAT GUYS A FORUM REGULAR ELITIST!!111!"

I don't mean to be a "forum nazi" but there's already a lot of review threads, and I wouldn't mind having a discussion without random newbies like "knicks21" and "gjvah" spamming. I think we should have a memory thread for the old times, like when K2 was around and the speculation and hype before any gameplay was shown.

ngen
30th Aug 2011, 08:48
Oh my god, I only have 2(!) posts on the forums, and I still have the nerve to post in this thread. Im such a rebel!
Anyways, aside from OP making an ass out of himself in the first section of his post, he has some valid arguments.

I love the ambient and score in DX:HR. Usually the first thing I do in a game that is designed to resemble reality is to turn down music, because for me it ruins the immersion. But in this game I actually turned it up again, because it added a nice dimension to the game. The only thing that annoyed me was in some of the longer chapters, the short riffs start to get annoying to listen to on repeat.

Another thing I've noticed on the forums is that people are complaining about the graphics - and I honestly dont understand. Yes, there are a few cutscenes and in-game places where it seems that textures are below par. But honestly, the story and the game itself is enough for me to barely notice things like this. The atmosphere surrounding the various places in the game is superb imo.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 15:44
OP edited.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Aug 2011, 15:52
"OMG DAT GUYS A FORUM REGULAR ELITIST!!111!"

I don't mean to be a "forum nazi" but there's already a lot of review threads, and I wouldn't mind having a discussion without random newbies like "knicks21" and "gjvah" spamming. I think we should have a memory thread for the old times, like when K2 was around and the speculation and hype before any gameplay was shown.

I left these forums for almost a year because of this nonsense. I too would like somewhere where the so-called "elitist, old sch00l, bla bla bla" posters could talk about this game, quite frankly because I'm still very on the fence about buying it. I never thought I'd get to that point with a Deus Ex game (obviously, I worship the series). But I haven't been convinced by anything Eidos Montreal has shown me, and the early reviews from sources I trust (namely, older, more mature gamers who are fans of the original like Rindill) aren't positive.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Aug 2011, 16:11
Suggestion, Why don't you just re-title this the "Pity party venting thread, only for those that will agree with my dramatic rants about why this game destroyed my hopes and dreams"

If you need a sandbox where only the opinions you deem admissible based on your own set of criteria are allowed, well, then lets just say I question your motives. Perhaps that was already evident though based on my subtle rearrangement of your thread title.

You know, I only see one side of this argument making asses out of themselves. (HINT: It's not the old-schoolers).

Fox89
30th Aug 2011, 16:15
Shame you didn't like it Rindhill. I'm not gonna repost my review from the other thread, but I gave it an A+ myself. I think some of the criticisms such as the level design where you mark Human Revolution down when you wouldn't mark the original down in the same way are a bit unfair. The 'freedom of exploration' in the original is always exaggerated in hindsight, I was playing it the day before Human Revolution and most of that game was a choice of pre-defined paths as well.

That's not to say your criticisms aren't valid. But I do think the original Deus Ex often finds itself elevated in comparison to HR far more than it deserves.

Fox89
30th Aug 2011, 16:44
You cannot exclude people from participating in a thread in this forum, and there are good reasons for that.
I for one can imagine to have played more Deus Ex, IW and by now HR than you, and am probably by far more entitled to formulate an opinion on this game with a hindsight on the previous two games than you are.
Just because I haven't spent months getting 1k+ posts on this forum doesn't mean my opinion and review-ability is any less valid than yours

No, but he wants to discuss his opinion with people he knows and has been anticipating this game with. People who already know his preferences. People who have already argued with him and know how to conduct themselves in order to have an intelligent conversation with him. People who know not to make that stupid point about how 3rd person is actually optional, because they know that the discussion about the pros and cons of that system has already been had a thousand times.

Would you sit at a stranger's table in a cafe? And when they said "Would you mind leaving my friends and I alone?" would you reply with "You can't stop me. It's a free country. And I overheard you talking about politics and I happened to WORK in politics for a number of years, so my opinion is just as valid as yours?" If somebody did that to YOU what would you think of them?

Not a great way to make friends. So if somebody makes a polite request like "Please only post if you anticipated this game on the forums with me", the polite thing to do is respect that. No, you don't have to, it's just the considerate thing to do. For a fellow human being. Or has the art of being decent to your fellow man been rendered void because you are on the internet?

WildcatPhoenix
30th Aug 2011, 16:45
What criteria are you defining yourself as an "old schooler" by in particular.

I'm 34 years old and have been gaming since the day's of the atari 2600. My first real PC was a 386 and my first real PC game was X-wing.

I think I qualify just fine for any old school title you may be laying claim to.

I'm not referring to your age. Hell, I'm not even referring to you specifically ("Old schooler" seems to be the derogative nom du jour around these boards).

If you have to know, oddly enough, my first real PC game was also X-Wing (great game, let's talk about that instead, eh?) My point is, those of us who are routinely pigeonholed into the category of "old schooler" are the people who have been expressing their misgivings about the game for years on these particular boards. It's not a statement of quality, it's just a statement of fact. Some people have been around here for a long time, and in this particular argument, it's not this group of people who are being insulting or demeaning toward others.



On this note I really feel sorry for you. You've been blinded by love, love for a game released 12 years ago.
And while I probably hate the evolution of gaming as much as you do, I moved on and accepted the fact that games will never again reach the quality they had back in the day. Publishers and developers need money, and the generation of games who loved quality games is slowly decreasing, the general public and todays youth is mostly stupid, and appealing to this kind of consumers requires games to be simple, straight, and short. But at the same time corners can be cut, in music, dialogue and visual design.


So you just want to give up, eh? Just concede that gaming sucks and will always suck from now on. Just accept things for the way they are, no use putting up a fight.

Quite honestly, that's pretty weak, comrade.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 17:11
Shame you didn't like it Rindhill. I'm not gonna repost my review from the other thread, but I gave it an A+ myself. I think some of the criticisms such as the level design where you mark Human Revolution down when you wouldn't mark the original down in the same way are a bit unfair. The 'freedom of exploration' in the original is always exaggerated in hindsight, I was playing it the day before Human Revolution and most of that game was a choice of pre-defined paths as well.

That's not to say your criticisms aren't valid. But I do think the original Deus Ex often finds itself elevated in comparison to HR far more than it deserves.

I'm a hard grader... I realize. For me, a C means average. You wouldn't want to see my reviews of other games because I believe holding gaming to a higher standard is the only way to improve the gaming community and what the devs are producing.

To me, A+ is reserved for a game that is truly truly exceptional, ground-breaking or so near perfection that there is almost no way to improve it. DX:HR is not that. There are numerous ways the game could be improved, and it isn't ground-breaking at all, rather it takes a few steps back from the original. I would give Deus Ex (original) an A because though it was ground-breaking and extraordinary, it could also have been improved in several ways.

I understand the original after all I've played it many many times. And I understand how DX:HR is very similar to Deus Ex. But DX:HR is coming out 10 years after the original. What worked then does not work now. Yet they've kept the design decisions made for 10 year old hardware, and actually cut out much of the capabilities of interaction that made the original a gestalt experience. As for the levels, Deus Ex (original)'s levels were much more open, which helped to hide the designed aspect of the experience.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Aug 2011, 17:19
Here's the thing. I don't think gaming specifically does just "suck these days" at all. There is certainly a lot of crap out there in the vein of Call of Duty, but the rose colored glasses are very deceiving I've found.

There is too much of a hard headed mentality in a lot of PC gamers. Unwillingness to accept change. So much so that a great game like Human Revolution comes out and some people are still looking for a million and one ways to hate it or call it console crap.


But that's not what people like Rindill and I are saying. My primary gaming platform is the X-box 360. I haven't been able to keep up with the constant hardware upgrades required for PC gaming. Haven't been able to afford it for years. My PC is an ancient Dell Dimension (gift from the ex-wife, ugh) and can barely run the original Deus Ex smoothly.

I know plenty of console gamers who genuinely care about the progress of game design. That's not the issue here at all. Maybe I can illustrate this differently:

Games used to be a specialty niche market, designed by nerds, for nerds. But the proliferation of gaming consoles such as the X-box (and games like Halo, which I love) changed this. Games became popular, and popularity breeds profit. Now you can go in to any college dorm room and find twenty guys gathered around the TV playing video games. All types: nerds, jocks, fratboys, goths, gay/straight, all races/colors. That side of it is positive- I love being able to go up to just about anybody and have a discussion about video games without being made to feel like some kind of loser.

But the negative side is that there has been a dilution of quality. Not saying DX:HR is continuing this trend. I think DX:HR is a step back toward the right direction. But a lot of us wanted DX:HR to propel gaming forward from where we were in 2000.

To use a crappy, over-simplified scale:

(DUMB, SIMPLISTIC GARBAGE) <<9 <<8<<7<<6<<5>>4>>3>>2>>1>> (GAMING'S ULTIMATE POTENTIAL)

I'd say the original Deus pushed us from a 5 to a 4 on that scale. Gaming, as a whole, has slid backward to the 6 or 7 range. DX:HR then, has brought us back to where we started. Those of us who are complaining are impatient to get to 3 or 2.

Geez, that's really dumb. Oh well. I gave it a shot.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 17:37
To use a crappy, over-simplified scale:

(DUMB, SIMPLISTIC GARBAGE) <<9 <<8<<7<<6<<5>>4>>3>>2>>1>> (GAMING'S ULTIMATE POTENTIAL)

I'd say the original Deus pushed us from a 5 to a 4 on that scale. Gaming, as a whole, has slid backward to the 6 or 7 range. DX:HR then, has brought us back to where we started. Those of us who are complaining are impatient to get to 3 or 2.

Geez, that's really dumb. Oh well. I gave it a shot.

Exactly. Though I have to say that DX:HR didn't really bring us back to the 4 Deus Ex brought us to. It achieved maybe a 5 simply because it was copying a diluted analysis of Deus Ex's parts.

I suggest playing it, if you liked Deus Ex. Like I said, it's a B+ game by modern standards. If you don't expect too much and can look past the disappointment you'll really enjoy the game.

WildcatPhoenix
30th Aug 2011, 17:53
Exactly. Though I have to say that DX:HR didn't really bring us back to the 4 Deus Ex brought us to. It achieved maybe a 5 simply because it was copying a diluted analysis of Deus Ex's parts.

That's what I meant. Even with smarter, more inspired games like Mass Effect (say what you want about BioWare, they put effort and creativity in to their products) and Deus Ex: Human Revolution coming out, the gaming industry in general is still less advanced than where it was more than 10 years ago.

Think about that. Deus Ex came out ELEVEN YEARS AGO.

"Now hold on!" you might say. "Games have advanced way past that crappy old Unreal engine, with its hilariously bad character animations and ugly textures and wonky lighting."

So maybe there is a philosophical question here: what constitutes a "video game?" Because I'm a huge fan of simulators. I expect gaming to be progressing toward a virtual reality. That's one thing I adored about the original Deus Ex: there were real world locations, real places you can actually go to and take pictures of (anybody seen that Liberty Island walkthrough vid on YouTube with the Deus music?).

I wanted to see DX:HR pushing the limits of what was started in Deus Ex. I wanted to see an interactive world full of items I could use to creatively solve puzzles/problems. I wanted to see 5, 6, 7, or even 10 solutions to challenges. I wanted to see just how flexible the writers could be with characters dying/not dying. Don't put me in a world, tell me I can do "anything," but then force me to walk straight in to a room (in a cutscene, no less!) and fight some big hulking goober with a chaingun. That sequence is straight out of 1995 gaming, not 2011.


I suggest playing it, if you liked Deus Ex. Like I said, it's a B+ game by modern standards. If you don't expect too much and can look past the disappointment you'll really enjoy the game.

I think I'll wait until I can pick up a used copy on PC. I'm marrying in to a better computer in January (hehehe, the other day she told me "you just love me for my computer, don't you?") so I'll be able to run it.

Maybe there will be an SDK by then? (oh please, please, god!)

Fox89
30th Aug 2011, 17:55
Like I said, it's a B+ game by modern standards

Quick question: are there any modern(ish) games that you would give an A?

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 18:00
The game is great. Not perfect, but great. Anyone who was a fan of the original and says otherwise simply has some unrealistic expectation that DX:HR was going to give new meaning and purpose to their life. Of course the game didn't live up to such high expectations BECAUSE IT'S JUST A GAME. Games are for recreation and relaxation, which are important for maintaining sanity, but they are not going to give your life new meaning, joy, and happiness. If you want to offer your criticisms on how to make the sequel even better, great, but giving it a D+ compared to the first game just reeks of nostalgic delusion.

A D+ is below average. A C would be average. I'd rate DX:HR a C in comparison to the original if it brought to the table the same things as Deus Ex. It didn't. I rated it a D+ instead of a D because it brought social aspects, persuasion, and the social boss battles.

In terms of what Deus Ex was trying to accomplish, yes, DX:HR failed horribly by not even trying. DX:HR has the story, the setting, and great visuals. It fails in game-design implementation.

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 18:09
Quick question: are there any modern(ish) games that you would give an A?

That depends on how I'm grading it. I want to hold DX:HR to the standards set by Deus Ex, so I'm grading it according to those standards.

I might give Battlefield 3 an A if it really nails what it was trying to accomplish: the most amazing multiplayer straight-FPS experience.

For me, an A game would be very hard to find fault with, or would be ground-breaking in some way. I'm really good at finding fault. And making flawless video games is really really hard.

I hold out hope that one day I'll find a game worthy of an A.

The Witcher 2 might have gotten an A-, but there is enough fault to shift it down to a B+. Perhaps the Enhanced Edition will fix this.

I'm hoping Dishonored brings the **** to the table.

Fox89
30th Aug 2011, 18:34
That's the fundamental difference in the way you and I judge games. I don't think faultless games are realistic, and more importantly I don't think there's anything wrong with a flawed game. Depending on how those flaws affect the experience. Take L.A Noire, the flaws in the were very glaring, and ruined the experience for me. So I judged it harshly. But all the things I didn't like about Batman: AA on the other hand did nothing to really break me out of the game world and the enjoyment I was taking from it.

With Human Revolution, I imagine if I was going through the entire game analyzing everything that was said, every mechanic and every piece of level design with the attitude "But how does that compare to the original?" then maybe I would have been more scathing in my evaluation. But I don't think it's all that fair to judge a game like that. Of course, comparisons are unavoidable, but a game needs to be judged on its own merits. And where it falls down in some areas compared to the game you know, maybe it makes up for in others.

I felt Human Revolution did, and when playing the game without worrying about what it did or did not do just like or better than Deus Ex, it earned it's spot on my very very short list of "A+" games.

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
30th Aug 2011, 18:40
ITT: Forum Regulars discuss everything and anything about DX:HR

Being a FORUM REGULAR: That means you've been on these forums for an extended period of time BEFORE RELEASE, and posted more or less regularly.

It never fails that as soon as you ask someone not to do something, they do it. This is not about being elitist. And I'm not saying visitors and newbs can't post in this thread, because you are capable of it. What I am doing is asking you politely not to, please. This is about the community that built up before release. The reason I'd rather visit a forum like this than the boards at 4chan is because of the identities that exist here. It's not a stream of thousands of different anonymous people, but rather people I recognize, people I have talked to before, and people I've gotten to know (limited albeit) and respect.

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I'll start things off with a brief overview. When I have time to write a full review I'll post it later.

Grading: C is average, B is above average, A is nearing perfection, D is below average, F is unacceptable

Final Verdict: SO CLOSE!!!! It's painful.
Grading as...
Modern cyber-punk RPG/FPS: B+
Worthy Sequel to Deus Ex: D+

Human Revolution’s “Deus Ex quality” story, settings, and (superior) visuals strike a soul-rending discord when packaged with painfully inadequate game “play and design” and narrative delivery. The former brings to mind the Deus Ex experience, only to be dashed violently upon the latter. Human Revolution begs for the whole Deus Ex package, which has been violently ripped from it by poor design decisions: most notably, cutting out original Deus Ex mechanics and ignoring the design philosophy that gave rise to the remarkable experiences of the original.

For Dugas: “Never was it a good idea to take things out or “simplify” a game design for a sequel; as it could have been any one of, or all together, the game mechanics and design philosophy of the original which made it great for any particular player. Game design does not mean you have to control every aspect of the player’s experience. In fact, it is one of the virtues and strengths of video-games that the player can interact with the medium in personal and unique ways, while the game design itself creates the means and world in which this happens. Designing hard-core games for the casual-gamer is a mistake. A casual gamer will not play hard-core games, and diluting the experience for the audience who will play the game in an attempt to attract an audience that will never play the game only subtracts value from the world. Designing a game by what everyone else in the industry is doing is likewise a mistake: prominence is only achieved by leaving the crowd behind.”

Was the Paul scene there? Yes, there was Malik. Was the bathroom scene there? Yes, there was Pritchard. But they mean nothing because they are only throw-backs to the original.

Ask yourself this, would these elements have been in DX:HR had they not been in the original? No. Whereas Paul’s apartment scene arose as a consequence of Deus Ex’s design philosophy, EM’s approach to DX:HR would have precluded its existence.

This is why Dishonored is likely to be Deus Ex’s true spiritual successor. During DX:HR’s development, Dugas and Anfossi were pleased to announce that one of their players “threw boxes at mines”… thus proving the emergent qualities of DX:HR. Colantino and Harvey were pleased to announce that one of their players “stopped time, possessed a guard, walked him in front of his own bullet, and resumed time”, thus proving the emergent qualities of Dishonored. One of these games demonstrates what Deus Ex could have been like now, 10 years later, one of them does not.

Story: B+
-- Main Arc Plot: A (Philosophy, conspiracy, ties to original, cyber-punk) -- A little too predictable and obvious - no subtlety here.
-- Character Design: B (Inconsistent)
-- Narrative Implementation: C (suffers from lack of original design philosophy -- choices in dialoguical structure -- characters appear once and disappear forever -- choices leave no lasting mark nor come back to affect Jensen later)
-- Sub plots: C+ (Side-narratives too frayed and shallow)
What I would have liked to see:
Better pacing
More characterization and exploration of supporting characters -- better integration with main arc
Organic player-directed narrative growth in consistent “simulation” -- as opposed to cut-scene heavy linear designer-dictated paths

Graphics: A
-- Visual Design: A+ (Black and gold cyber renaissance really works for me)
---- Environmental Design: A+ (Oh my god, that convention center needs to be a real place, and walking through Heng Sha blew my mind)
---- Character Design: A (I love the character design, memorable and unique, some of the characters didn’t translate to 3d models as well as could have been hoped)
-- Animations: D (While the idiosyncratic robotic dialogue animations grow on you, smoother more defined animations would have worked wonders with the visual design.)
What I would have liked to see:
Better animations

Game-play: C-
-- Level design (mutli-path: hacking/stealth/combat/social): C (Too many corridors and clearly-designed paths create a dissonant world-player relationship, this world has been crafted for the player, rather than having an objective and challenges to overcome organically, the player simply has an objective and may choose different pre-set paths to get to it: genuine player exploration and creative limit-pushing is discouraged if not right out prohibited. However, the city hubs approached true Deus Ex quality by nature.)
---- Stealth: C+ (Smooth stealth, great aug choices complement stealth gameplay... often way too easy -- over-reliant on visual information)
---- Hacking: C- (as mini-games go... not bad--it's EVERYWHERE though and over-incentivized)
---- Combat: B- (Combat is good... difficult and well-balanced... tiered enemies and above-average AI - skills missing though)
---- Social: B+ (I really loved this addition to the Deus Ex formula (the only thing they actually added))
-- “Quest” design: C (Linear journal tracked quests rather than a reactive world simulation – EM copped out and used artificial states and barriers to shoe-horn the player into a “mediocre” experience of their design, rather than creating a world and letting the player write his own story by exploring and interacting with it himself)
-- Game mechanic diversity: F (Every mechanic (augmentation, weapon, device) has a clear purpose, and each purpose has a clear mechanic, and each purpose-mechanic has clear application for the designers to put in a level and check off their list)
-- Experience mechanic: C (Unbalanced. Certain activities are over-incentivized)
-- AI: B+ (The AI is excellent: not perfect, but excellent).
What I would have liked to see:
Everything from the original + more:
Skills
Utility devices (lock-picks, re-breathers (swimming), multi-tools, therm-optic camo, etc.)
Melee combat (energy-independent stealth take-down)
CASIE-independent persuasion outside of boss-battles
Organic level design
Immersive sim design principles
Less frequent, more difficult, and heavier consequence hacking (an example would be a single hack gives player access to different levels of control of entire building/level)
Over-lapping applications


Role-play: C
-- Augmentations: C- (Limited)
-- Skills: F (Non-existent)
-- Mechanical choices for play-style: D- (One way to tackle each pre-designed path)
-- Immersive setting: B+ (Nailed cyber-punk right on the head, suffers from game-play and quest design mediocrity)
What I would have liked to see:
More and varied augmentations – optionally installed in LIMB clinics
Skills – all from original + more
Over-lapping applications
Better “side-quest” design

Sound: C
-- Music: C (McCann scores bland, repetitive, unmemorable tracks—still works with game)
-- Sound Design: C (Sounds seem okay and where they should be. Nothing remarkable.)
What I would have liked to hear:
Melodic ambience: subtle and numerous motif integration

Other:
--Gun design: C
What I would have liked to see:
Higher-tech weaponry – more and varied modability – ammo types – removable mods – skill based specialization


I don't think I'll ever be able to play DX:HR again.
Not because the game is bad at all... it's a decent game by modern standards... if it were farther away from Deus Ex I might be able to enjoy it... but it's so close to achieving the truly remarkable experience of Deus Ex that I cannot play it without a little piece of my soul dying in disappointment.

Tl;dr.

You lost credibility the moment you said you would "never play this game again".

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 19:41
Tl;dr.

You lost credibility the moment you said you would "never play this game again".

o'rly? I've only ever played Invisible War once.

remmus
30th Aug 2011, 20:10
personally I love the game, sure it´s no revolution like the first was, but it is a solid built game that in my mind captured the core of what a Deus Ex game should be, a game where you can play it pretty much the way you want. A few minor comment points

* vastly better none lethal then the first game, Deus Ex 1 none lethal was atrocious and HR makes a good job making it viable, frankly only grief I have is the lack of mid range none lethal options, a bit annoying consider I came up with ways to make 2 of the 3 none lethal weapons in the game viable for mid range in 2 seconds flat

*stealth is also vastly improved, the first games stealth was bare bone and relied more on half blind and stupid guards then your own skill, here you really have to rely on your skills, your smarts, and one or two good augs.

* lots of freedom how to tackle a area just like the good old first game, if I have to give this game a minus it tend to be to promoting tho of stealth, with big exp bonuses, but hey, as I personally like to play the ninja hacker I dont mind.

overall in my mind a game worthy of carrying the name Deus Ex, lets just hope Eidos don´t do a Invisible War fiasco with a future sequel.

Spyhopping
30th Aug 2011, 20:42
The traffic is a bit daunting and makes me want to take a step back from the place, BUT it is exactly what I want to see happening. I love seeing the place heaving and full of enthusiasm.

lukeman3000
30th Aug 2011, 23:21
This is bar none the best cross platform game I have ever seen

I have to disagree with you on that one. In my humble opinion, Half Life 2 (The Orange Box) was the best cross-platform game I have ever seen. The reason it succeeded was because it was developed on and for the PC first and foremost, and was later ported to consoles. The PC version obviously felt right, and the team did an excellent job with the ports.

Man, that makes me remember back to the good old days when there weren't so many freaking bugs in games and you could just pop it in and play and your machine gun was delayed half a second..

lukeman3000
30th Aug 2011, 23:24
The traffic is a bit daunting and makes me want to take a step back from the place, BUT it is exactly what I want to see happening. I love seeing the place heaving and full of enthusiasm.

That's what she said

ArchangelX
31st Aug 2011, 01:22
I'm a pretty big fan of the original Deus Ex, and thus far I'm pretty damn satisfied with this game. It's beautiful, even with the engine limiations, the voice acting is great and varied...talking to the civs is actually worth it and rarely are there any repeats, the weapons are quite enjoyable to use (love the cannon!), and although the AI is kinda dumb on medium setting, the overall game is exciting and tense...just like the original.

Personally, I am enjoying the enemies way more than in the original Deus Ex...they're not as dumb as a box of rocks, and you actually have to work for your stealth by using your augs. The only caveat is the fact that you can take out someone that's fairly in close proximity and if they're not watching, they can't hear you.

I'm fully expecting some epic hardcore stuff to come out sooner or later though.

I think the original poster should go back to the first game if he hates this one so much. See ya later, homie!

Rindill the Red
31st Aug 2011, 02:23
OP is a MUG.
Let me guess as the 'regulars' are mainly PC gamers i will guess their 'reviews' have been overly critical and its all 'console kiddies' fault. Threads like these are why we hate you PC gamers.

Rude and ignorant. An unfortunate combination to say the least. You don't know what you are missing. I pity you.

WildcatPhoenix
31st Aug 2011, 04:03
Rude and ignorant. An unfortunate combination to say the least. You don't know what you are missing. I pity you.

I repeat, it's not the PC/old-school/elitist/whatever crowd making complete asses out of themselves in this thread.

Guys (or girls?) like Fox89 and NapalmLemon have given their positive impressions of the game in a reasonable and respectful tone. Why can't some of the rest of you do the same?

Whatever, let's move on. I'm interested to hear what Ashpolt thinks of DX:HR.

jtr7
31st Aug 2011, 04:04
The nostalgic delusion levels are extreme for most games we love. I have found this on several occasions where I went back and played games I thought the world of and found out some of my memories were highly exaggerated, to flat out being false.

Is it nostalgia if people have played the game more than once a year since the first time they played it and also play the latest games? Most of the time people bring up the nostalgia delusion argument, they assume years have passed since it was played and think it's been built up in memory, prone to confabulation.









Anyone who wasn't here for at least several months simply has no history with this community, and there's been no posting history ranging from heated debate to bonding over excitement for the possibilities, personal concerns as a gamer and Deus Ex/DX:IW fan; no unfolding of revelation and surprise and relief and offense, none of that shared perspective evolved or stubbornly maintained over time, which is what this thread was intended to compare and relate without having to establish one's stance from scratch. There is currently no other place to organize such a panel of discussion, but maybe someone could help with that and share the results back here.

Romeo
31st Aug 2011, 07:31
I'm sure there's going to be a massive uprising, but I deleted all "new" posters (Anyone from about the last 4-5 months).

Keep it on topic, this ain't another PC vs Console thread. Not done the game yet, so I wont issue a verdict of my own just yet. So far I'm fairly split. Some things pleasently surprised me. But other things that I thought I would dislike I ended up hating even worse.

numinous
31st Aug 2011, 07:44
Loved

- Atmosphere
- The attempt at the Deus Ex experience
- That it wasn't as short as I expected
- The many nods to the series' roots
- Some of the combat moments when you face large amounts of enemies
- The heart and soul and passion of the development team
- The "sim-like" experience where you mostly have control over everything in the game. I didn't expect them to keep such things in
- Conversation system was hit and miss but mostly very immersive
- Physics and ragdoll animations
- Ending movies

Hated

- Boss fights
- Lack of character development
- Not much feedback or consequences for your actions
- Augs being way too powerful and not compensated for throughout the game
- Weapon balance, 10MM pistol being the only really useful weapon in the game on PC
- Takedowns. Nice in theory, but really is nothing but a detriment to the game.
- Music was unmemorable and boring. I was humming DX1 tunes during the whole game instead
- DLC etc
- Third person. We'd debated it to death and it turns out everyone was a bit right. It's not as purely immersion breaking as expected, but it's definitely unnecessary.
- Seemed like after half way through the game there would be more cities to explore but instead they inexplicably drop you back into the first two. That'd be fine if there were more repercussion for your previous actions but there were maybe one or two of these and nothing else. I'm sure they cut content there and I really felt it.
- Felt like the game was replicating what they THOUGHT DX1 gameplay was about, rather than inventing or expanding on it. A large portion of the game is semi-sneaking around and reading pointless emails, then every single Pocket-whatever gives a code for something. Truly felt arbitrary in that regard.

Overall I enjoyed DXHR MUCH more than I expected to. However, everything forum regulars such as the posters here and myself warned the developers about over the past three years truly did affect the game for the worse. I feel like DXHR is a great game, but it's not the game I'd have made if I was in charge.

I'm currently replaying DX1 and IW and listening to DX OST's all day so, mission accomplished for getting the whole Deus Ex vibe revived, though I really wish there was more to DXHR that I could champion.

vallux
31st Aug 2011, 09:26
Dat color!

You do have a lot of good points though.

I personally don't really have any major issues with the game. The takedowns could use a little more work with the "context sensitivity" and all. And the animations might be off, but the game is damn good.

Also, I apparently avoided the delete button by a few months.

Ashpolt
31st Aug 2011, 10:01
I'm interested to hear what Ashpolt thinks of DX:HR.

Not sure why my opinion warrants particular note, but I'm proud to be picked out! :D

I'm holding off writing my opinions in any detail until I've completed it - which is likely to be tonight (which should tell you something in itself!) Needless to say, expect a wall o'text when I've done with it.

numinous
31st Aug 2011, 11:12
I keep trying to ask him on Steam but the sneaky bugger is using Offline mode :P

Ashpolt
31st Aug 2011, 11:39
I keep trying to ask him on Steam but the sneaky bugger is using Offline mode :P

There's a bug with the latest AMD drivers and Crossfire which makes the Steam overlay flicker madly, so I play in offline mode to avoid having a flickery popup every time one of my friends logs on or off. Besides, it's a single player game, I don't like being disturbed. :P

(This bug also means I can't take screenshots using Steam's built in tool - they just come out black - which is deeply, deeply irritating.)

Ilves
31st Aug 2011, 11:54
After just finishing I'm just baffled with how the game

practically suicides itself in the final act in every department-- gameplay, leveldesign, soundtrack, story. What the hell, EM?

AlexOfSpades
31st Aug 2011, 12:29
I still havent finished the game, in fact i dont even have it yet, so i guess i cant review it.

But its nice to see a forum veteran thread. The forum became a little confusing now that we have so many new members.

I'm also waiting for Pinky to come out of his Forum Quarantine and give us his view on the game. But according to his reactions on Facebook, i guess he's enjoying it a lot!!

WildcatPhoenix
31st Aug 2011, 13:22
Not sure why my opinion warrants particular note, but I'm proud to be picked out! :D

I'm holding off writing my opinions in any detail until I've completed it - which is likely to be tonight (which should tell you something in itself!) Needless to say, expect a wall o'text when I've done with it.

Lol, well, you and I both have been posting on this board for several years now, and it seems like we have very similar opinions about the strengths and weaknesses of the original game. I haven't decided whether or not to buy DX:HR (right now I'm leaning towards "wait until I can pick up a used copy a few months from now").




I'm also waiting for Pinky to come out of his Forum Quarantine and give us his view on the game. But according to his reactions on Facebook, i guess he's enjoying it a lot!!

Oh yeah, I forgot about Pink. Yeah, hopefully he'll hop on here and share his impressions as well.

NapalmLemon
31st Aug 2011, 13:30
I'm sure there's going to be a massive uprising, but I deleted all "new" posters (Anyone from about the last 4-5 months).

Keep it on topic, this ain't another PC vs Console thread. Not done the game yet, so I wont issue a verdict of my own just yet. So far I'm fairly split. Some things pleasently surprised me. But other things that I thought I would dislike I ended up hating even worse.

And with that I bid this forum farewell. As I find little merit in an environment where manipulation of the conversation is necessary to maintain ego's.

I posted what I felt were some useful contributions to the conversation as did others. If you honestly feel it is valid to judge someones point of view based on their joined on date then I have little regard for your thought process on the matter.

My sincere best wishes on your exclusive little club you've formed here, where "newcomers" opinions bear less weight than that of your own.

WildcatPhoenix
31st Aug 2011, 13:38
And with that I bid this forum farewell. As I find little merit in an environment where manipulation of the conversation is necessary to maintain ego's.

I posted what I felt were some useful contributions to the conversation as did others. If you honestly feel it is valid to judge someones point of view based on their joined on date then I have little regard for your thought process on the matter.

My sincere best wishes on your exclusive little club you've formed here, where "newcomers" opinions bear less weight than that of your own.

This is one thread out of hundreds, not the whole forum. :hmm:

Ashpolt
31st Aug 2011, 13:55
And with that I bid this forum farewell. As I find little merit in an environment where manipulation of the conversation is necessary to maintain ego's.

I posted what I felt were some useful contributions to the conversation as did others. If you honestly feel it is valid to judge someones point of view based on their joined on date then I have little regard for your thought process on the matter.

My sincere best wishes on your exclusive little club you've formed here, where "newcomers" opinions bear less weight than that of your own.

OK, you say you've left so you presumably won't read this, but I'm going to reply anyway.

It's not about elitism, nor is it about saying anyone's opinion is any less worthwhile than anyone else's. It's simply that many of us have been on this forum discussing this game for years now, and have got to know each other in that time - I don't know if I'd go as far as to say we're "friends" as such, because a) it's the internet, b) half of the time we don't even get on, and and c) ROFL NO HOMO, BRAH, but it's as good a word as any. So this thread is really just intended as a place for people who already knew each other prior to the game to discuss it. Every other thread in the entire rest of the forum is open to everyone, so you can't exactly call the place an "exclusive little club" due to one thread which exists solely for the purpose of its exclusivity.

What I mean is that the sole point of this thread, the entire reason it was created, was as one corner for "the regulars" to discuss the game amongst themselves - nothing beyond that. Everything being discussed in here - everything - is also being discussed in other threads which everyone is free to post in, the only point in being here is if you're a "regular" and want to discuss it directly with other "regulars." If you want to post your opinions about the game in general, there's the reviews thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=118921) - and lots more people will read your opinions and discuss them with you there than here. If you've got tech troubles, visit the tech forum. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=298) Want to talk about the ongoing ARG? That's covered too. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=120594)

That being the case, why are you so hung up on posting in this thread when, by very definition, the thread can't possibly interest you? Is it just a case of "I want it because I can't have it"?

WildcatPhoenix
31st Aug 2011, 14:05
Not to mention, some of us "regulars" would like a place to post opinions/impressions without being forced to rehash the same arguments we've been battling over for years. I.e.:

1. Is 1st/3rd person "immersion breaking?"
2. Do you guys just want the original game with shinier graphics or something???
3. Are cutscenes necessary?
4. PC vs console
5. DLC
6. No skill system
7. Melee weapons vs. takedowns

Ad infinitum.

We've been down those roads a million times, and obviously at this stage of the game (no pun intended), there is nothing we can do to influence the development of DX:HR. So we've all come to a relative truce.

So come one, guys. Allow us "pretentious old men" to continue playing at running the world...

hazard001
31st Aug 2011, 14:06
I'm sure there's going to be a massive uprising, but I deleted all "new" posters (Anyone from about the last 4-5 months).

Keep it on topic, this ain't another PC vs Console thread. Not done the game yet, so I wont issue a verdict of my own just yet. So far I'm fairly split. Some things pleasently surprised me. But other things that I thought I would dislike I ended up hating even worse.

Wow, didn't think this would actually get moderator support to discriminate against "new" posters.

Random
31st Aug 2011, 14:11
Don't be so precious, it's one thread. Rindill is specifically asking for opinions from people he's been posting with for a long time and made a thread for convenience instead of trying to search through dozens of others.

There's another thread asking for opinions from fans of the original game. I would expect people who haven't played the original game to respectfully refrain from posting in that thread because it's not addressed to them. Same situation here.

deusexhr
31st Aug 2011, 14:34
And this thread goes to show why i hate PC gamers. They are so pretentious and self-entitled. Listen guys this little exclusive club has been going on much longer than since the game came out. These ignorant elitists have the support of moderators too as the moderators are PC gamers too. This is by and far the most disgusting forum i have ever seen with the discrimination 'new' posters get. It is such a shame aswell because Deus Ex is such a great franchise. It is a shame the fanbase are a bunch of morons. Hopefully these ''regulars'' are alot older as they portray themselves as such so hopefully they will be ravaged with disease and illness sooner than us and they will die and they shall truly get the commupance they deserve.

Ashpolt
31st Aug 2011, 14:37
And this thread goes to show why i hate PC gamers. They are so pretentious and self-entitled. Listen guys this little exclusive club has been going on much longer than since the game came out. These ignorant elitists have the support of moderators too as the moderators are PC gamers too. This is by and far the most disgusting forum i have ever seen with the discrimination 'new' posters get. It is such a shame aswell because Deus Ex is such a great franchise. It is a shame the fanbase are a bunch of morons. Hopefully these ''regulars'' are alot older as they portray themselves as such so hopefully they will be ravaged with disease and illness sooner than us and they will die and they shall truly get the commupance they deserve.

A number of the "regulars", including Romeo, the moderator who cleaned up this thread, are console gamers / have DXHR on console. Despite what you might be trying to make it, this isn't a PC / console discussion in the slightest.

But don't let that get in the way of your agenda.

[EDIT] Would this thread be getting such hate if it was called "Rindill's friends thread"? I don't think so. Can't blame a guy for wanting to have a discussion with his friends, can you? Well, that's basically what this thread is - a discussion for a group of friends, or near enough.

numinous
31st Aug 2011, 14:42
Oh geez. As much as I'd like to get back on track I have to respond.

This is Deus Ex. Deus Ex was the hallmark of PC gaming for over a decade. Only an idiot would expect there to be no banner-bearers and camaraderie among DX fans. With your post there all you've done is shown yourself as someone incapable of learning and incapable of improving yourself as a person. Intelligent people don't suffer from jealousy, they only seek to improve themselves. You really shouldn't be upset that there are people more educated on Deus Ex than you that want to talk amongst other like-minded people on the OFFICIAL DEUS EX FORUMS, ya dig? Instead you should be happy people like that exist so you may learn from them or even, in time, become one of them.

Regardless what you said is wrong. The mods here are anything but elitist or supportive of elitists. In fact, they'd have probably sided with you and closed the thread had you not called them out. How do I know this? Because I've been perma-banned by overzealous mods here more times than you have posts for being outspoken about console games and gamers like you.

I pulled an Ashpolt and posted way more than I intended to. Make sure it doesn't go to waste, okay deusexhr?

Driber
31st Aug 2011, 14:45
Temporarily closed.

Driber
2nd Sep 2011, 07:15
The staff decided to keep this thread closed permanently.

I would like to stress that we do not condone discrimination (for the lack of a better word) of new members. Every member may post in any thread, unless the staff instructs otherwise (for reasons unrelated to this issue). Members are not to take it upon themselves to choose who may and may not post somewhere.

I understand the reasons of the OP for making this thread and I'll take his word that he didn't mean for this thread to be about elitism, but in all practical sense, it was. Therefore it will not be allowed to continue in its current form.

If the OP wants to continue his review thread, he may contact me through PM and we can discuss the possibility of creating a new one with a more appropriate set of rules and tone.

A reminder of our TOU for everyone: If this thread is re-created without my explicit consent, it will be a violation of rule #16 (http://forums.eidosgames.com/announcement.php?a=50#rule16) and appropriate actions will be taken.