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comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 18:28
I started playing this game like I played Deus Ex back in the day and here are my problems with it:

It very quickly became impossible to complete quests without upgrading my hacking skill. The police sidequest (Motherly Ties) in Detroit is broken and neither Frezell's nor Penn's machines have passwords located anywhere in the police station. I can't say anything about the later areas because I had to google the passwords for these machines and spent my next few praxis points on hacking. - Guess I was just missing a breakable wall.

Icarus Landing System: The animation is just a huge waste of time. It feels like some artist desperately wanted to add something cool to the game. It should have just removed fall damage and left it like that. Only use the animation when drop-smashing. It was also bugged so it would trigger at the very start of any fall and that prevented me from hopping rooftops in the China levels.

Auto Hacking devices? Where? I haven't seen a single one in my entire game. Was this because I got mine off steam so I can never get one? I spent five hours in that police station before I resorted to googling and I kept seeing stuff about people just using their auto hacking device. - Not a real issue.

My biggest gripe and it's the most annoying in China is that Territory AI isn't based off territory. It's based off LoS. If they don't see you, they won't say anything at all. Then the moment they see you, they keep their eye on you and keep repeating their warning messages even if you immediately turned around and started hightailing it out of there. I've triggered their hostile ai this way plenty of times. Just to clarify, I wasn't anywhere near their "territory" when they went hostile.

Keypad UI isn't accurate with widescreen resolutions. It will, very often, still be glowing over another button even though your mouse is on top of the one you want to click. I've had to double check myself a lot before clicking.

Unconscious bodies will just randomly die. I'm not sure what causes it, but I've noticed many times that when I try to drag someone in the Detroit level and they are unconscious, it will change their sleep symbol to a skull. Not sure why, but it seemed to happen to almost every body.

Oh and energy. Energy is seriously screwed up. If takedowns were too powerful then they should have just removed them or given them their own resource. I just want to use my aug powers and the entire energy system is making it incredibly difficult. Candy and other **** are such a scarce commodity in the game. (It was so abundant in the first one it didn't matter that it didn't recharge) Because of this, the praxis points spent into extra batteries are utterly worthless and the points spent into faster regen are greatly diminished. (Here's an idea. Take out takedowns. Implement melee weapons. Tada. Just kidding, but energy is still terrible.)

Edit: Edit: I almost forgot. First weapon I asked from Sarif was the tranq rifle. I never saw ammunition for this gun again. Did the Devs just forget to add some things to the game? (Edit: Alright, I did get more ammo like four missions later. Tossed it at the end of the mission when I realized that I had only found one extra clip and I getting decently far in the game.) - Not sure if real problem or just me missing specific secrets.

Mobius32
29th Aug 2011, 18:40
I started playing this game like I played Deus Ex back in the day and here are my problems with it:


Edit: Edit: I almost forgot. First weapon I asked from Sarif was the tranq rifle. I never saw ammunition for this gun again. Did the Devs just forget to add some things to the game?

I took the tranq rifle too, and never once ran out of ammo for it. I think you just have to look harder

sinosleep
29th Aug 2011, 18:44
There's plenty of stun and tranq ammo, you can also buy some.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa459/sinosleep007/dxhr2011-08-2821-15-27-55.jpg

There's a screenshot of my character after having just beaten the 1st boss. There's 12 single battery restoring candy bars, 4 double battery restoring candy bars, I've eaten some, and I didn't even purchase the two 3 battery restoring jars available at every LIMB clinic.

If you aren't finding candy or ammo you aren't looking.

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 18:57
I took the tranq rifle too, and never once ran out of ammo for it. I think you just have to look harder

Not sure. I like to explore every nook and cranny, myself. I used up the starting ammunition on the roof in the first mission and never saw any more ammunition until probably the first China Mission. (can't remember exactly, but I ended up tossing the gun soon after realizing it was just taking up space and I hadn't used it in forever). OTOH, I do get a ton of these stun darts that don't seem to work with any weapon I have, probably the stun gun.

Went up and down all maps, explored every sewer and dead-end. The only rooms I never went were the ones with level 4 or 5 keypads that I couldn't find access codes to.

And I also don't know what's up with candy bars. I just can't seem to get a stack of them. What difficulty are you playing? 12 also doesn't seem like that much to me since I remember usually carrying about like 40+ of those things back in the original.

sinosleep
29th Aug 2011, 19:17
I'm playing on give me deus ex.

All told I've got 18 batteries worth of consumables in my inventory and I've eaten some of the ones I had. And like I said, you can buy 2 + 3 jars from the limb clinics.

hazard001
29th Aug 2011, 19:23
I got through the detroit police station with the social CASIE aug my first try, I just finished the first boss without upgrading any of my hacking.

I've already seen 2 distinctly memorable places I coulda used the landing system.

Yardwaste
29th Aug 2011, 19:24
Doing the later stages of the game now and have yet to come across the Auto hacker that was supposedly part of the Augmented PC Edition that I pre-ordered and bought (hard copy not digital).

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 19:25
I'm playing on give me deus ex.

All told I've got 18 batteries worth of consumables in my inventory and I've eaten some of the ones I had. And like I said, you can buy 2 + 3 jars from the limb clinics.

I probably got the same amount as you if you've been stocking them up. I pretty much devour them the moment I get them. I auged out my stealth and silence so that I could actually use them. Even maxed out, they eat a whole battery in nothing flat. The gameplay is annoying when I'm constantly balancing between not eating into that next battery and trying to get to a safe spot.

It's just annoying.



I got through the detroit police station with the social CASIE aug my first try, I just finished the first boss without upgrading any of my hacking.

I've already seen 2 distinctly memorable places I coulda used the landing system.

Yeah, I forgot to mention it was the sidequest to get into Penn's computer for Rachel's mother. I got all the way into Frezzel's office, but it just kinda stopped there. I couldn't find any leads anywhere in that entire station to unlock his level 2 pc.
I even surrounded myself with boxes and hacked all the pcs on the main floor with the guards all around to see if it was on them. :/

Also, I like to jump off the rooftop a lot now that I have the aug. The animation playing every time I jump is just a bit over the top. Maybe it'd be alright if I used the falling takedown, but not when I just want to fall safely.

sinosleep
29th Aug 2011, 19:41
I probably got the same amount as you if you've been stocking them up. I pretty much devour them the moment I get them. I auged out my stealth and silence so that I could actually use them. Even maxed out, they eat a whole battery in nothing flat. The gameplay is annoying when I'm constantly balancing between not eating into that next battery and trying to get to a safe spot.

It's just annoying.
/

If you could actually maintain silent movement and cloak for large portions of the game it wouldn't it be a game any more. I used it a few times when I was being lazy and didn't feel like using regular ol cover stealth and it's a free pass to just sprint across entire sections of the game without any real effort. I'm glad you can't maintain that and have to save it for portions of levels instead of running through entire levels like that.

The hacking though I agree with you that it's a bit overboard. Even my rambo style character has lvl 3 hacking. You miss out on way too much stuff without it.

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 20:01
If you could actually maintain silent movement and cloak for large portions of the game it wouldn't it be a game any more. I used it a few times when I was being lazy and didn't feel like using regular ol cover stealth and it's a free pass to just sprint across entire sections of the game without any real effort. I'm glad you can't maintain that and have to save it for portions of levels instead of running through entire levels like that.

The hacking though I agree with you that it's a bit overboard. Even my rambo style character has lvl 3 hacking. You miss out on way too much stuff without it.

Yeah, the worst part about the hacking though is that it literally felt like a dead end to me. I discovered my way up into this guy's office and then bam, no more pda's. no more e-mails. no more notes. I think I spent a good half hour reading stick-it notes trying out the numbers written on them -_-.

And about the energy, you're not getting it. I never once asked for infinite invisibility.
What I said was that the current system is terrible. Fully upgraded invisibility with one energy bar is near worthless. Even more when you mix it with the no sound aug. Praxis upgrades for energy are worthless. 20 or so candy bars in the whole game is just silly. I didn't drop 8? praxis points into stealth and energy for them to be worthless. With all of this investment, I expect to have them available to me for most encounters and give me at LEAST enough time to knock a guy and retreat back to cover. Or enough time to hack a pc for that matter.

The investment to reward ratio is just broken. Why would I even bother using that bar of energy for less than seven seconds of invisibility when I can just wait for a guy to walk my direction and then use a takedown on him?

hazard001
29th Aug 2011, 20:14
I probably got the same amount as you if you've been stocking them up. I pretty much devour them the moment I get them. I auged out my stealth and silence so that I could actually use them. Even maxed out, they eat a whole battery in nothing flat. The gameplay is annoying when I'm constantly balancing between not eating into that next battery and trying to get to a safe spot.

It's just annoying.




Yeah, I forgot to mention it was the sidequest to get into Penn's computer for Rachel's mother. I got all the way into Frezzel's office, but it just kinda stopped there. I couldn't find any leads anywhere in that entire station to unlock his level 2 pc.
I even surrounded myself with boxes and hacked all the pcs on the main floor with the guards all around to see if it was on them. :/

I could be wrong (not a stealther) but isn't it designed so you use cover most the time and only pop invisibility when it's a must?

I used the social thing for the capn

sinosleep
29th Aug 2011, 20:20
I don't think it's broken at all.

There's exactly ONE augment I feel isn't worth the points, and that's investing heavily into extra batteries. Getting the one upgrade to make full use of +3 consumables but past there they're not worth having since the consumables work instantly making it so that there's no difference if you go into battle starting with 1 battery or 5. All the other augs are fine.

As for when would you stealth instead of waiting? How about when you don't want to wait? I've had several rooms that had stairwells and cameras that made it a pain to track both guards on the stairwells that could see you while tracking the guards down stairs and the cameras. I'd just pop cloak and silent movement and run past everything to a security room so I could turn off the cameras/turrets and just deal with the guards. There's plenty of other opportunities to do similar things. Sometimes you get two guards looking at each other that will see you sneaking towards them when you really want to perform a double take down. A couple seconds of cloak is more than enough to do the job at that point.

If you expected to be able to sit at a terminal hacking for 30 seconds at a time that's a you problem.



I could be wrong (not a stealther) but isn't it designed so you use cover most the time and only pop invisibility when it's a must?

I used the social thing for the capn

That's exactly how it works. It's meant as an oh **** button, not a primary form of play. Hell most of the time you don't even need silent movement to accompany cloak. Yeah, guards will become suspicious, but so long as you make it to cover before cloak runs out they still own't know where you are right away. Using both is just away to get by COMPLETELY unnoticed.

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 20:26
I could be wrong (not a stealther) but isn't it designed so you use cover most the time and only pop invisibility when it's a must?

I used the social thing for the capn
Pretty much. Yeah, that's the only way you can really play it in DX3. I honestly think takedowns are the reason for this. It feels like the one battery recharge thing was something they put in last minute.

Personally, I like to play aggressive stealth. The amount of praxis kits required for every recharge, battery upgrade, cloak, sprint, no sound, icarus upgrade is ridiculous for the amount of use I actually get out of them. I had to stop using no sound altogether and cloak barely lasts me long enough to get behind cover.

How did you socialize your way into Penn's pc? Getting into the morgue was no big deal, but I got hung up on the Motherly Ties quest.

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 20:34
I don't think it's broken at all.

There's exactly ONE augment I feel isn't worth the points, and that's investing heavily into extra batteries. Getting the one upgrade to make full use of +3 consumables but past there they're not worth having since the consumables work instantly making it so that there's no difference if you go into battle starting with 1 battery or 5. All the other augs are fine.

As for when would you stealth instead of waiting? How about when you don't want to wait? I've had several rooms that had stairwells and cameras that made it a pain to track both guards on the stairwells that could see you while tracking the guards down stairs and the cameras. I'd just pop cloak and silent movement and run past everything to a security room so I could turn off the cameras/turrets and just deal with the guards. There's plenty of other opportunities to do similar things. Sometimes you get two guards looking at each other that will see you sneaking towards them when you really want to perform a double take down. A couple seconds of cloak is more than enough to do the job at that point.

If you expected to be able to sit at a terminal hacking for 30 seconds at a time that's a you problem.




That's exactly how it works. It's meant as an oh **** button, not a primary form of play. Hell most of the time you don't even need silent movement to accompany cloak. Yeah, guards will become suspicious, but so long as you make it to cover before cloak runs out they still own't know where you are right away. Using both is just away to get by COMPLETELY unnoticed.

That's the thing. You, obviously, don't care about cloaking. You use it when you get discovered. I, on the other hand, invested into it expecting it to incorporate it into my play. (just as I did with the original DX1). My point is, it doesn't last long enough with all the praxis kits to be worthwhile. It's just not worth investing all of this into it. It barely changes gameplay at all. It's a get out of fight free card. That's all it is. The one battery recharge feels like a tacky solution to fix takedowns and the barebone amount of candy bars in the game feels like they were added in at the last second. They honestly should have just removed regen completely, added more candy bars and just made the augment increase the amount obtained per bar.

On that note though, that's not why I made this post and everyone has their opinions. You play the way you want. I play the way I want. I'll edit my first post later if I remember any other bugs/glitches I've discovered, but for now I'm done discussing energy regen.

sinosleep
29th Aug 2011, 20:41
I don't use it when I get discovered, I just explained I use it in situations where regular stealth would be harder than I feel like dealing with so I just cloak to the security room and get rid of the cameras/turrets so I only have to deal with guards.

subtlesnake
29th Aug 2011, 20:46
The investment to reward ratio is just broken. Why would I even bother using that bar of energy for less than seven seconds of invisibility when I can just wait for a guy to walk my direction and then use a takedown on him?
I think seven seconds of invisibility is a pretty long time. It enables you to escape nearly any situation, cross any open space, and evade security cameras and lasers. Any longer, and 'stealth' would be in danger of becoming trivially easy.

If you want to run up to someone while invisible and knock him out then you need two bars of energy, because the takedown uses up a bar on its own. However, you can use the stun gun instead of a takedown, and I've found it's often possible to stun the first person, and use a takedown on the second.

Overall it seems fairly balanced to me, but I agree with your point about the game giving you an upgrade path that isn't viable. Probably they should have cut that path off.

mattlistener
29th Aug 2011, 20:49
No game element is supposed to be able to dominate all others. If you try to tranq every opponent, you'll run out. If you use your judgment and only tranq opponents you can't safely stun, takedown, or avoid, you'll have ammo to spare. Cloak will solve certain stealth problems, such as diving between cover across an LOS cone, but not most stealth problems.

Hacking is higher utility than it should be, yes. You can get by without Hacking but it requires a ton of exploration and obsessive reading. Bear in mind picking up a Personal Secretary / hacking a PC doesn't automatically reward you with the passwords therein, you have to actually open the entry/email the code is in.

Also note, the first point in Hacking:Capture is probably a higher incremental value than all other Hacking-related augs. Reason #1: there are a ton of level-2 devices in the world. Reason #2: A lot of passwords and codes for higher-level devices can be found by hacking lower-level devices. So even in a largely hackless game consider spending just that one point.

mattlistener
29th Aug 2011, 20:54
No game element is supposed to be able to dominate all others. If you try to tranq every opponent, you'll run out. If you use your judgment and only tranq opponents you can't safely stun, takedown, or avoid, you'll have ammo to spare. Cloak will solve certain stealth problems, such as diving between cover across an LOS cone, but not most stealth problems.

Hacking is higher utility than it should be, yes. You can get by without Hacking but it requires a ton of exploration and obsessive reading. You won't see all content, but that's true of several other augs as well. Bear in mind picking up a Personal Secretary / hacking a PC doesn't automatically reward you with the passwords therein, you have to actually open the entry/email the code is in.

Also note, the first point in Hacking:Capture is probably a higher incremental value than all other Hacking-related augs. Reason #1: there are a ton of level-2 devices in the world. Reason #2: A lot of passwords and codes for higher-level devices can be found by hacking lower-level devices. So even in a largely hackless game consider spending just that one point.

Agent Denton
29th Aug 2011, 21:02
My only complaint is that it is about to end or me....... the game that is.......

comradesean
29th Aug 2011, 21:02
No game element is supposed to be able to dominate all others. If you try to tranq every opponent, you'll run out. If you use your judgment and only tranq opponents you can't safely stun, takedown, or avoid, you'll have ammo to spare. Cloak will solve certain stealth problems, such as diving between cover across an LOS cone, but not most stealth problems.

Hacking is higher utility than it should be, yes. You can get by without Hacking but it requires a ton of exploration and obsessive reading. Bear in mind picking up a Personal Secretary / hacking a PC doesn't automatically reward you with the passwords therein, you have to actually open the entry/email the code is in.

Also note, the first point in Hacking:Capture is probably a higher incremental value than all other Hacking-related augs. Reason #1: there are a ton of level-2 devices in the world. Reason #2: A lot of passwords and codes for higher-level devices can be found by hacking lower-level devices. So even in a largely hackless game consider spending just that one point.
Notice: Energy is the real problem with cloaking. Not the duration. That's all I'm going to say about that.

On hacking, I don't have a problem with hacking. My problem is that I hit a dead end in the police station (EDIT: w/Motherly Ties quest). It felt like i was being led all the way to Fezell's office and then it just cut me off. You CAN get by with exploration and obsessive reading, but ONLY if the password is somewhere in the game world. If you can tell me exactly where I can find either password for Fezell's machine or Penn's machine then please do. I spent nearly half a day in that damned place searching. And like I said, I can't say about anything else further on in the story, because I immediately spent points into hacking and never wasted my time like that again.

Grunthex
29th Aug 2011, 23:59
There is a broken wall in the sewers under the police station. You can either punch through this wall (with the aug), or repeatedly shoot at it until it breaks. Inside is a datapad with all of the police logins.

Nokturnalex
30th Aug 2011, 00:49
There is a broken wall in the sewers under the police station. You can either punch through this wall (with the aug), or repeatedly shoot at it until it breaks. Inside is a datapad with all of the police logins.

^

There's actually a lot of these secret walls in the game that net you either 400 pathfinding xp or 100 exploring xp.

comradesean
30th Aug 2011, 01:27
There is a broken wall in the sewers under the police station. You can either punch through this wall (with the aug), or repeatedly shoot at it until it breaks. Inside is a datapad with all of the police logins.

Urgh. Thanks. At that point, I didn't even know breakable walls made it into the game. Not to mention that I figured it would actually be inside the station like everything else. -_- Oh well

Also on another note, I just found out the hacking devices aren't even in your game at all if you didn't get the DLC. I wonder how much Gamestop paid them off for that bull****. Anyway, not the place to complain about that.

Thanks again for that info.