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Twinsen64
29th Aug 2011, 08:45
In the first Deus Ex game it was rather challenging to juggle most of equipment and weapons in the given limited inventory space without ammunition being an inventory item, but in the DX:HR it's almost ridiculous.

The weapon diversity is increased, grenades do not stack (mines do, though), ammo has absurdly low quantity per stack and these are more problems with inventory system that I find VERY ANNOYING. Even if I go for LTL approach to the game (Stun-gun, Tranquilizer Rifle and PEPS) my inventory is already half full and then I need a normal weapon for Boss battles and I go well over one half of inventory with 4 weapons and respective ammo, add some grenades, painkillers and energy bars, both Hack programs and I'm pretty much full. Can't even normally hold about 10 or so spaces for an additional weapon or ammo or anything (I could chuck the Stun-gun since its range is minimal, but id doesn't solve the problem). I find such inventory management very frustrating...

Possible solutions to the problem:
1. Remove ammo from inventory (Like first Deus Ex game). Make ammo as a counter value (current/max) on the weapon image in the inventory.
2. If the previous solution seems too excessive then greatly increase max ammo quantity per stack (like, assault rifle ammo should be at least 200 bullets per stack) or simply let player have only one stack per ammo type with decent max ammo amount per type.
3. Make grenades stack to at least amount of 5 or preferably 10 per stack, just like mines.
4. Remove hacking programs from inventory (Having them in inventory seems aesthetically pointless since essentially its just software and cant be used as an item).
5. Increase total amounts of painkillers (10) and energy bars (10 small, 5 medium and 3 Large) per stack.

Ludogator
29th Aug 2011, 11:00
Maybe they tried to fill the gap, which was created after not implementing hazard suit, rebreather, batteries and a lot of other stuff like that?

However it was hard for me to keep the inventory clear.
I think the best solution would be, as you mentioned, increasing stack numbers, especially for ammo, which always filled my inv quickly.

tZer
29th Aug 2011, 11:30
Mines stack? since when?

Tuttle
29th Aug 2011, 11:39
Do you ever use PEPS? I noticed I didn't and ditched it. For boss battles I just used my stun-gun and grenades (The remote detonators). They typically killed things rather easily and the stun-gun had brilliant EM potential (A nice temporary stun)

captaincoke
29th Aug 2011, 11:48
Mines of the same type (i.e. frag mines) stack to a total of 3. So do other types.

DieBySword
29th Aug 2011, 12:09
Mines take 3x1 grid and stack to 3 while granades take 1x1 without stacking - final verdict is they take the same amount of space.

But yes ammo should be counted in the current/total display while using the gun and not in the inventory or make it stack more bullets for a few types like machine/heavy/combat rifle ammo. Grenades should stack too because it make it obsolete to even have them. Nuke/stop viruses and upgrades should have they`re own place too.

Anyway the biggest flaw is the grid/weapon design. A rocket launcher take 6x3 block and needs 2 shots with a painfully long reload time to kill a big mech while 1x1 block emp grenade does the same thing quicker. The grid size is 7x14 while the sniper rifle is 2x8 so you cant have two sniper rifles horizontally and you cant even have one vertically placed in your inventory. The stun gun is as big as the pistol, while the tranq rifle is bigger than a combat rifle O.o and dont even start me on the machine gun which is 4x4 blocks (but maybe thats because machine ammo is so plenty in the game)

Griseus
29th Aug 2011, 12:10
Mines stack? since when?

Mine stacking. Mine bases no.

Piflik
29th Aug 2011, 12:15
I constantly carry a Stun Gun, Tranq Rifle, 10mm Pistol, Combat Rifle and Sniper Rifle with me, with plenty ammo for all of them, consumables and explosives...never had a problem with that...


Mines take 3x1 grid and stack to 3

Mines need 2x1...they are more space efficient than grenades and more useful...the only downside is the limited range, but they are better in every other way...

WarBaby2
29th Aug 2011, 12:58
I constantly carry a Stun Gun, Tranq Rifle, 10mm Pistol, Combat Rifle and Sniper Rifle with me, with plenty ammo for all of them, consumables and explosives...never had a problem with that.

Of course, if you put enough PRAXIS points to open up you inventory, but when you need the points elsewhere, space is pretty limited very fast.

I think it would be totally reasonable to increase the stacks for ammo (one stack per type with a max count), stack nades and handle weapon upgrades seperatly (toolbox?). For programs the should be a similar system (like a pocket PC where your programs are stored on).

In addition I'd like to see containers to store weapons and equipment in. It was pretty hard for me to choose wich weapons to take with me to Hengshan, because I didn't know what to expect. besides I would have liked to try and tacle the missions there mutliple times, with a different loadout.

Implement a weapons suitecase that travels with you and is stored in a specific location (your apartment, the hotel in china, etc.).

Nemesis296
29th Aug 2011, 13:20
I was a little disappointed when I saw that my DLC guns were *forced* into my inventory (Double Barrel Shotgun and Silenced Sniper) because they take up almost 50% of the inventory you start with!

If I drop the weapon on the ground in my office will it disappear, or will I be able to pick it up later to use it? Is there some sort of container that I can stash my inventory? Or is this simply part of the challenge of the game?

Piflik
29th Aug 2011, 14:14
Of course, if you put enough PRAXIS points to open up you inventory, but when you need the points elsewhere, space is pretty limited very fast.

There are more than enough Praxis Points in the game for you to upgrade the inventory...

Kibou
30th Aug 2011, 09:25
Inventory management is an important part of Deus Ex - not being able to carry everything at once forces you to make decisions on what items you want to have at your disposal, and which you can do without. Thus, I wouldn't appreciate making it too easy (e.g. by removing ammo from the inventory).

I wouldn't mind a slightly increased stack size here and there, though, especially for grenades. Let's say three instead of just one. I think inventory management should be more about planning ahead than constant re-organization, and that's hard to do if you don't know whether you'll need one slot or five in order to carry some kind of grenade.

Also, I agree with Nemesis on the DLC issue: cramming all that stuff into your small, un-augmentend inventory at the start of the first mission is a bit bothersome. I think it would be better to place one of those two stacks of remote-detonator explosives and that really big Sniper Rifle in your apartment instead - there you can leave it for some time without losing it entirely.

mad825
30th Aug 2011, 09:42
If I drop the weapon on the ground in my office will it disappear, or will I be able to pick it up later to use it? Is there some sort of container that I can stash my inventory? Or is this simply part of the challenge of the game?

The weapons/items that you drop...or any by NPC will remain there so long as you can access that area again. That's what happens for the PC version at least.

The inventory is fine. It prevents the player from being armed to the teeth and going gung-ho with everything, this is a stealth orientated game. Deal with it!

demonbox
30th Aug 2011, 09:44
I think it would be better to place one of those two stacks of remote-detonator explosives and that really big Sniper Rifle in your apartment instead - there you can leave it for some time without losing it entirely.

yup confirming this, you can easily drop stuff at yr apartment, it will remain there

WarBaby2
30th Aug 2011, 09:47
Inventory management is an important part of Deus Ex - not being able to carry everything at once forces you to make decisions on what items you want to have at your disposal, and which you can do without. Thus, I wouldn't appreciate making it too easy (e.g. by removing ammo from the inventory).

True, but providing a space where additional equipment can be stored, that you can choose from before each mission would not break this mechanic. It would, however remove the need to find/buy everything again you could not take with you when moving to a new location.

That wouldn't bee an issue if you could return to the same hub area after each mission, but the game is not desinged in this way.

@Piflik
I am nearing the end of Hengsha the first time and had no spare points for inventory upgrades until now. Maybe my own fault, but that has nothing to do with the overall designmechanics that are discussed here.

rubberchimp
30th Aug 2011, 11:50
I've been trying to collect the handy-dandy (useless I hear..) sniper rifle in Detroit and the game keeps telling me that I don't have enough space for it... is there any way ingame to tell what configuration of space it requires in my inventory?

Given how tight the inventory space is at the start, I would've expected the UI to have some way of showing the space requirements for an item. Is there really no such thing ingame?

I mean, it's not enough to know that I don't have enough space.. would be nice to know I need an 8x2 space.

Dr_Bob
30th Aug 2011, 12:12
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/559791921164096364/4169DA3D405E9FEFBBD777C9D7F7869F37782C14/

Problem?

Itkovian
30th Aug 2011, 13:35
I disagree.

The system is limiting, yes. That's the point.

It is another layer of resource management, just like the limited ammo and limited energy for takedowns.

Of course, these are all things some people want fixed, but they won't. This is Deus Ex, not an action shooter. These are deliberate restrictions placed on the players to force them to put some thought in how they play the game.

So, no, this is not a problem at all. It simply means you cannot be a pack mule, and must make decisions as to what you carry around. Want a rocket launcher? Want to hoard tons of ammo? Then you'll need to give something up. It's that simple.

Itkovian

EepĀ²
26th Jul 2013, 21:37
What a bunch of malarky. If the developers didn't want to accomodate the casual non-hardcore inventory management gamer, they would not have included a damn difficulty setting in the first place. Inventory design should also be configurable and made easier for gamers who don't feel like dealing with a badly designed inventory system that's merely a throwback to the 1980s adventure games anyway. Sheesh...

Shralla
27th Jul 2013, 02:48
Of course, these are all things some people want fixed, but they won't. This is Deus Ex, not an action shooter. These are deliberate restrictions placed on the players to force them to put some thought in how they play the game.

First of all, Deus Ex is an action game. Secondly, nobody wants it turned into more of an "action shooter." If you actually read the opening post, you'd notice that most of the changes he's asking for would make the game more in line with the original Deus Ex. The "restrictions" you're talking about are mostly inherently poor design choice (takedowns) covered up with more poor design choices (energy system). This is true of the inventory management as well.

EepĀ²
27th Jul 2013, 06:50
First of all, Deus Ex is an action game. Secondly, nobody wants it turned into more of an "action shooter."
Deus Ex is more of an action-adventure-RPG.

besyuziki
6th Aug 2013, 10:53
Keeping ammo in the inventory wasn't a bad design decision IMO. In the first game, when JC was in the cell without any weapons but 20 rockets was a real immersion breaker, and I hate saying "immersion breaker".

Increasing stacks of ammo and consumables sounds okay though, there are several inconsistencies in Human Revolution when it comes to inventory size and stack limit of some items.