PDA

View Full Version : They said you couldn't get all the augments....



SearingWind
29th Aug 2011, 04:42
They were right, but I got close.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/540651622756189257/D7F33230CC65C1837688996BC7684C149AE33354/

flipperflopper
29th Aug 2011, 06:00
lol @ decision making
absolutely nothing had consequence in this game

Black-Xero
29th Aug 2011, 06:28
You must have looked everywhere and took a non-lethal approach.

NKD
29th Aug 2011, 06:39
If you're OCD about collecting XP you can rake in a lot. I did a non-lethal, knock out every dude, explore everywhere, hack everything playthrough and ended up the same as you pretty much.

I think the way its set up, overall, is good though. You do get to unlock most augmentations, but many of those will be unlocked in the later part of the game where they seem to throw more XP at you. By that point, you can get a taste of these augmentations you skipped early on, but you've already missed a ton of gameplay where they might have been useful.

To put it another way, the first augs you get are the ones with the best return on investment.

sea
29th Aug 2011, 07:30
I think you just generally get too much XP overall. I know that Jensen's augmentations are technically all built in, so he'll eventually gain them anyway according to the story, but not being able to have to make real choices and trade-offs is something that really kills the character development. Early in the game, you'll want to get all the hacking skills and augs that provide extra exploration options to maximise those early returns, and by the time things start to get more difficult, you'll have passed the point where those fundamental skills matter, so your experience in the game is going to be less about how you've built Jensen and more about what your preference in getting through the game/LARPing is.

It's this kind of pseudo, fake role-playing that has less to do with actual gameplay and more to do with what you imagine yourself to be, and that really hurts Human Revolution. In Deus Ex, not only were augments limited by availability, they were limited by progression through the game, with certain augments only becoming available upon additional exploration and at certain points during the story. Those trade-offs always felt like genuine choices that defined your character, rather than just another step on the path to godhood. Combined with skills, Deus Ex created the sensation of moulding a character designed for a certain playstyle, rather than being given a preset character and then choosing how to use him/her (which, as I said, doesn't even really matter once you hit the middle of the game). Eidos can defend their design decisions by saying "well, it's a single-player game, so character classes, balance, steady progression, exploits, etc. don't matter", but I think that's a cheap cop-out of designing genuinely compelling mechanics that reward tough decisions and open the door to multiple play-styles.

I'm not at all kidding when I say that Human Revolution would be a lot more fun if you only got half of the XP/Praxis Points you normally do... and in fact, if there was ever an idea for a patch, an extra difficulty level increasing the augmentation point costs or XP required for level-ups would be a really simple, but effective way at providing a more compelling game. Suddenly, hacking isn't just a standard upgrade for all characters, it's something that defines play-style, just as the ability to lift heavy objects and jump over obstacles might define another character, or the ability to fire a gun effectively defines yet another. And while the smaller levels in Human Revolution do contribute to that lack of unique feeling between playthroughs, I think the accessibility of augmentations also has a major impact as well.

That said, I think the ability to "max out" Jensen and become a walking god, conceiving character advancement as non-linear progression towards a predefined end state, reducing the RPG side of the game to a player fantasy rather than a choice reinforced by game mechanics, etc. are all endemic of the mass market console games industry... considering how trendy it is for "RPGs" on the market these days to do exactly the same thing, I get the sense it's less about providing good gameplay than it is about wish fulfillment for players.

AzaIndustries
29th Aug 2011, 13:04
ALL THAT STUFF
Ditto...

Please please please pretty please with a cherry on top make a patch that add a difficulty to half XP and/or praxis points!

I registered on these forums just to say this.
I agree with everything you said. Older games always made it impossible to get as skills as games these days do, loosing what made older games so good.
Making you feel like you have a character you moulded yourself.

I haven't even finished the game yet, I'm about half way and I've run out of augmentations I want to spend points on.
This might also have something to do with the game being so easy on the hardest.. and I haven't even used take-downs with their stupid sounds and annoying cut-scenes.
Braining someone personally would be more fun..

EDIT: Oh other then that best game I've played for YEARS.
To bad about these random features that pull it down a bit.

Fox89
29th Aug 2011, 13:22
I don't think these criticisms are particularly valid. OK, if you could unlock everything by the end of Detroit, fine. But you can't, for the vast majority of the game you're having to make these choices, it's only right at the end (and even then only if you've been farming all the XP humanly possible) that you even get CLOSE to having everything unlocked. Where's the problem?

As someone said earlier, sure for the final few levels you can have everything, but for the rest of the game up until that point, you DIDN'T have everything. So to experience Detroit with, for example, the wall breaking Aug, you have to replay and do it that way. I don't see how choice and consequence are compromised at all. Yes, there are one or two balance issues, namely in regards to the sheer overpowered nature of the hacking augs, but that's better fixed with level design or removing the number of hacking augs to invest in, not by halving Praxis points.

Cypher2587
29th Aug 2011, 13:32
I don't think these criticisms are particularly valid. OK, if you could unlock everything by the end of Detroit, fine. But you can't, for the vast majority of the game you're having to make these choices, it's only right at the end (and even then only if you've been farming all the XP humanly possible) that you even get CLOSE to having everything unlocked. Where's the problem?

As someone said earlier, sure for the final few levels you can have everything, but for the rest of the game up until that point, you DIDN'T have everything. So to experience Detroit with, for example, the wall breaking Aug, you have to replay and do it that way. I don't see how choice and consequence are compromised at all. Yes, there are one or two balance issues, namely in regards to the sheer overpowered nature of the hacking augs, but that's better fixed with level design or removing the number of hacking augs to invest in, not by halving Praxis points.

I agree I've been farming XP trying to unlock augs and I still have to make decisions about what to hack and where is possible for me to go based on the augs I have.

But in a world where only some people have augs and even less have them for military purposes I think Jensen should be kind of god like when he is decked out as he is with prosthesis tech. It makes sense within the story.

dillinger88
29th Aug 2011, 14:48
Really, this is a pretty stupid argument. It makes no logical sense:

"I spent ages hacking everything, searching everywhere and using non-lethal takedowns to get as much XP as possible to unlock as many augmentations as possible... I'm really annoyed that I unlocked lots of augmentations."

You say it removes choice which is retarded because a) you have to make choices in the beginning and b) they're not making you spend the points.

You can CHOOSE to only spend every other praxis point if you really want to. Additionally, removing the option of become god-like at the end (deus? lolwut?) in fact reduces the number of choices in the game.

Those that make this argument are trying to bash the game because they have to try and validate the fact they're a "hardcore gamer".

EDIT: this post is aimed more at flipperflopper than the OP.

Cerulean Shaman
29th Aug 2011, 14:52
He's just saying that the dev's were wrong when they said you could only get about 70 of the augs on a good play through. Jeeze. Doesn't help that half of them are pretty useless though.

Lirezh
29th Aug 2011, 15:23
Only thing that comes to my mind is "fu** consoles" for driving Eidos into weakening a game where choices should have huge impact.
I had almost all I thought I could use during MID GAME!
You could jump, hack, cloak, see through walls, all with good battery/rechargement and throw/lift heavy stuff.
The game still was good but it was nothing about "choices" about your augs, that only counted for the first few hours.

Until the very end I always had several (up to 9!!!) praxis points available because I simply didn't have any real use for them once I had most stuff activated!
It hurts when I remember back on playing Deus Ex and about how great it was to spot an AUG canister somewhere, earning praxis points was not even close to that.


I'm hoping for a mod team to fix all those "casual gaming" errors.

Itkovian
29th Aug 2011, 15:29
If you're OCD about collecting XP you can rake in a lot. I did a non-lethal, knock out every dude, explore everywhere, hack everything playthrough and ended up the same as you pretty much.

I think the way its set up, overall, is good though. You do get to unlock most augmentations, but many of those will be unlocked in the later part of the game where they seem to throw more XP at you. By that point, you can get a taste of these augmentations you skipped early on, but you've already missed a ton of gameplay where they might have been useful.

To put it another way, the first augs you get are the ones with the best return on investment.

This is correct. It is not an issue you get to gain all the augmentations, because by the time you do you've already been through more than 2/3 of the game anyway. What matters is the ORDER in which you gain those augmentations, and that dictates your playstyle.

Just because I had the icarus system by the end of the game does not mean I gained the full benefit from it, for example. To do so I'd need to replay and learn it first.

Itkovian

sea
29th Aug 2011, 15:36
This is correct. It is not an issue you get to gain all the augmentations, because by the time you do you've already been through more than 2/3 of the game anyway. What matters is the ORDER in which you gain those augmentations, and that dictates your playstyle.

Just because I had the icarus system by the end of the game does not mean I gained the full benefit from it, for example. To do so I'd need to replay and learn it first.
Yet on subsequent play-throughs, or heck, even an hour into the first one, you already know which augmentations are valuable (hacking) and which ones are completely useless (rebreather), and as such you can prioritise. In Deus Ex, it wasn't a question of "I don't know what this game is like, so I'll just guess at what I need", it was "I want to play the game in X way, but I know that will mean there's some stuff I'll never see or do". In Human Revolution, it's the opposite - provided you max out those exploration skills early (and you can do that by Highland Park if you simply do the side-quests), then you have almost nothing else of value to find, and the majority of semi-useful skills can be completely maxed out by the end of Hengsha.

I also think it's inaccurate to say you'll be missing out if you pick Icarus later on, either, because the only times it comes in useful are well past the mid-game, same goes for the Rebreather, EMP Shielding, etc. It's just poor balance, confounded by a lack of real choice and consequence in character building (I feel this is where skills come in to help differentiate characters, but of course those have been cut because "herp derp, augmentations and the ability to use them are the same thing!".

I still love the game. I think it's the best Deus Ex game we could have asked for in this day and age... but that's exactly the problem. The standards of the current games industry dictate that game design in RPGs and RPG-likes should be less about the player making choices with gameplay ramifications, and more about making them feel like a Badass, with a capital B.

dragunz
29th Aug 2011, 15:38
Really, this is a pretty stupid argument. It makes no logical sense:

"I spent ages hacking everything, searching everywhere and using non-lethal takedowns to get as much XP as possible to unlock as many augmentations as possible... I'm really annoyed that I unlocked lots of augmentations."

You say it removes choice which is retarded because a) you have to make choices in the beginning and b) they're not making you spend the points.

You can CHOOSE to only spend every other praxis point if you really want to. Additionally, removing the option of become god-like at the end (deus? lolwut?) in fact reduces the number of choices in the game.

Those that make this argument are trying to bash the game because they have to try and validate the fact they're a "hardcore gamer".

EDIT: this post is aimed more at flipperflopper than the OP.


Touché, I totally agree. I played most of the game with at least 2 praxis pts unsued, so I can unlock an aug if I WANT to go a certain route. I decided straight at the beginning to play a stealth-hack build so I CHOOSE to augment my character that way without knowing that the hack augs are without a doubt the most useful in the game but again, in a cyberpunk world this is obvious... making the game 'Hardcore' by limiting your ability to unlocks all augs, I mean come on, I don't play a game to farm for xp, I play it to enjoy it, role-play means you play a role so focus on that instead of xp farming. The game mechanics work great, and with any project of that scope you have to make comprimises. I really enjoy the game since you can CHOOSE to go a certain route or another and the game does not punish you for not having this or that, the control is TOTALLY yours. And it fells real, I play stealth-hack so if I get detected and engaged in combat I will mostly get destroyed on the spot, just later in the game I unlock the typhoon and some combat augs so it helped me to get out tight spots. This feels rewarding and you actually evolved through the whole story.
You are supposed to be kind of an ultimate weapon for one of the world's leading cybertech corpo, ready to face the world's most dangerous cyber-mercs. if you only can hack or stealth or shoot straight the whole game then what is the point ? where IS the choice ?
Anyway, being hardcore gamer for me means you love videogames and you enjoy them over and over again. I enjoy Catherine and demon's soul as much as I enjoyed other 'non-hardcore' games.
At the end it is a matter of perspective so this is only my opinion.

Sponge
29th Aug 2011, 15:52
It's this kind of pseudo, fake role-playing that has less to do with actual gameplay and more to do with what you imagine yourself to be

Um... I think you have that reversed. "True" role-playing is all about imagining yourself in a role. When you start to pile on the game mechanics and the role you want to play becomes defined by and subservient to working the mechanics and gaming the system, that's what role-players call "roll-playing". Nearly all CRPGs are "roll-playing".

Deltaslayer
29th Aug 2011, 16:27
If you can get pretty much every aug in one playthrough, and see every ending in the same room...
the point of playing it again is...???

LeMoN_LiMe
29th Aug 2011, 16:43
I'm now coming in and solving this thread! :eek:


Random trolls here to bash the game, please leave.

Anyone who wants to have a legitimate conversation, please stay.


Problem solved. :D


P.S. Augs in this game are fine. You get half the augmentations in the original anyway, and most of the ones I didn't choose were ones I found useless. Same as this game.

Don't worry real Deus Ex fans, Haters gonna Hate. :cool:

Deltaslayer
29th Aug 2011, 17:06
"People who don't share my opinion, please leave.
Anyone who does, please stay."

The real DX fans aren't even signed in this forum...

miraa
29th Aug 2011, 17:14
I have to agree with dillinger88 here. You spent the whole game min/maxing and scrounging for XP, then complain that there's too much XP. If you didn't want that much, you could have considered simply not min/maxing your XP gains. Or, hell, if you absolutely wanted to max out your XP, you still could have just held onto the Praxis points and not spent them to retain some choice/challenge.

I did my first playthrough of HR without a single point in hacking, because I didn't want to be a hacker. Even when the Praxis points were flooding in toward the end, I still didn't get any hacking augs because it was my wish to be a non-hacker.

It's a single player game. No one is forcing you to play a certain way but yourself. If you feel there isn't enough challenge, why wait for an "official" patch to limit your XP gains? Just spend less of your Praxis points. Same conclusion...

Now, if you wanted something like health regen removed, then yeah, I can agree, I'd like to see that as something we could optionally turn off. XP/Praxis though? You control how fast that comes in and what you spend it on, not Eidos.

Brian175
29th Aug 2011, 17:19
Only thing that comes to my mind is "fu** consoles" for driving Eidos into weakening a game where choices should have huge impact.
I had almost all I thought I could use during MID GAME!
You could jump, hack, cloak, see through walls, all with good battery/rechargement and throw/lift heavy stuff.
The game still was good but it was nothing about "choices" about your augs, that only counted for the first few hours.
I'm hoping for a mod team to fix all those "casual gaming" errors.

You're an idiot. How is this consoles fault? Or how does this make it for 'casual gamers?' Some of you elitist nerds or whatever the **** you are should really consider what statements you make.

Deltaslayer
29th Aug 2011, 17:39
You sound unhappy.

LeMoN_LiMe
29th Aug 2011, 18:08
You sound unhappy.

You sound as if you're trolling.............:scratch:

Deltaslayer
29th Aug 2011, 18:13
Last time I checked, calling someone a "troll" get you banned, and you did it twice.

Enemy242
29th Aug 2011, 18:42
it's so ridiculous for people who are farming xp to claim that there's too much, OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE TOO MUCH IF YOU TRY TO GET EVERY LAST PIECE. it makes sense because if when you farm xp and try to get every last little point, and you don't even get close to having everything, then what about the people who play the game normally? and aren't obsessively trying to get every single xp point? by that logic then someone who hacks a fair amount of stuff, does a lethal but silent play will only get like 5 augs because on your farming playthrough you only got half of them.

on my first time through i farmed for xp to the max; i hacked everything, did silent takedowns (doubles if possible for the bonus) as much as possible or did silent nonlethal headshots, i won all the social battles, i'd get bonuses like ghost and smooth operator and then GO BACK and take down all the previous enemies as well etc and i managed to get all the augs except for about 5 or 6 upgrades i believe. that seems pretty perfectly balanced to me considering i explored every possible inch of the game for xp/praxis points, took the approach that gives you the most xp and even cheated by going back after a bonus and taking out everyone just for the xp. it's safe to assume normal people won't hack EVERY SINGLE THING in the game or use a vent to get into a secret room and get the bonus, then go back out of the room through the vent, and then hack the door to get in to get the hacking xp instead of just exiting the room and auto-unlocking the door from opening it from the inside.

the game popping up has seriously brought out some people who have no extrapolation/critical thinking skills at all and just take things on face value. it baffles me and i'm glad i'm not the developer, because i would be highly bothered by people being so outrageously ignorant in every aspect of the game.

Deltaslayer
29th Aug 2011, 19:55
"it's so ridiculous for people who are farming xp to claim that there's too much, OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE TOO MUCH IF YOU TRY TO GET EVERY LAST PIECE."

Not in the best game ever, where you had to choose what aug for each limb, instead of having it all but unupgraded (this word exist?), and was about actual choices, but oh well...

There will never be a game as good as Deus Ex /sadfrog

leviathan12052003
6th Sep 2011, 23:38
I have Basically Mastered this game - the good and the bad - on my 4th and final playthrough I came out with 205955 xp - Non-Lethal takedown of every xp generating person in the game. I figure I missed the "Ghost" or "Smooth" bonus several times

at 205k xp I am 7 Praxis points from total completion which could only come from xp as I have every collectable one.

so that's an extra 35k xp to get all Augs - my best guess is that you could get another 15k xp or 220k xp as I am sure I missed a few hacking nodes and took down maybe 50 guys with the stun gun/gas mine (30 xp vs 50)

I guess only one of the designers could answer that fully - 205k was good enough for me - overkill in fact as may of the aug upgrades are useless

Spoiler** for a LOT of xp right near the begining - hack your own office computer (lv 3) will give you 575xp! and make sure to hack every lv 5 safe/door there is - they give at least 300+ xp every time - in fact there is only 1 spot in the whole game where I used a code/password - to deactivate the gas security system in the Detroit Basketball court locker - I think it sets the gas system off if you try to hack it.

imported_BoB_
6th Sep 2011, 23:54
On my first playthrough, I finish with 208 430 XP, and I missed one social battle (Sandoval, no dialog) and finish some quest "too early" (I think that if you don't accept the O'Malley's bribe, you win more XP but I am not 100% sure), I had to knock out Haas because there wasn't any dialog and I missed the first security computer/XP book/45 XP for the turret.
And I didn't manage to knock out the guys on the ground floor during the Alice Pod ambush (I wanted to do only takedowns and I didn't want any alarmed status)
Also, I hadn't activated the DLC yet.

Now with the glitch thing, it doesn't really matter because anyone can finish the game with maxed out XP though.

sea
7th Sep 2011, 00:11
Um... I think you have that reversed. "True" role-playing is all about imagining yourself in a role. When you start to pile on the game mechanics and the role you want to play becomes defined by and subservient to working the mechanics and gaming the system, that's what role-players call "roll-playing". Nearly all CRPGs are "roll-playing".
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/EricSchwarz/20110824/8281/The_selfmade_irrelevance_of_the_RPG.php

Obviously we have very different opinions on what constitutes an RPG.


I have to agree with dillinger88 here. You spent the whole game min/maxing and scrounging for XP, then complain that there's too much XP. If you didn't want that much, you could have considered simply not min/maxing your XP gains. Or, hell, if you absolutely wanted to max out your XP, you still could have just held onto the Praxis points and not spent them to retain some choice/challenge.

I did my first playthrough of HR without a single point in hacking, because I didn't want to be a hacker. Even when the Praxis points were flooding in toward the end, I still didn't get any hacking augs because it was my wish to be a non-hacker.

It's a single player game. No one is forcing you to play a certain way but yourself. If you feel there isn't enough challenge, why wait for an "official" patch to limit your XP gains? Just spend less of your Praxis points. Same conclusion...

Now, if you wanted something like health regen removed, then yeah, I can agree, I'd like to see that as something we could optionally turn off. XP/Praxis though? You control how fast that comes in and what you spend it on, not Eidos.
So a game with a broken mechanic is not flawed? Hint: exploration is not "grinding", and neither is playing stealthy. One legitimate playstyle is clearly prioritised over others with regards to XP gain. That means only one thing: poor game balance. Compare to the original Deus Ex or Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, where XP is distributed very evenly across all characters regardless of play-style (you'd only lose out on significant XP due to avoiding side-quests), and I think it's quite clear that the system is flawed. And no, just because other games also allow for grinding, overly-effective min/maxing etc. doesn't mean that it excuses the flaws in other games.

exmachinad
7th Sep 2011, 05:36
It's this kind of pseudo, fake role-playing that has less to do with actual gameplay and more to do with what you imagine yourself to be, and that really hurts Human Revolution. In Deus Ex, not only were augments limited by availability, they were limited by progression through the game, with certain augments only becoming available upon additional exploration and at certain points during the story. Those trade-offs always felt like genuine choices that defined your character, rather than just another step on the path to godhood.
Agree completely. DX1 did this system pretty well.

Even with all its flaws (and the "respec" option, if you so choose) Invisible War offered / forced more choices to players.


it's so ridiculous for people who are farming xp to claim that there's too much, OF COURSE THERE'S GOING TO BE TOO MUCH IF YOU TRY TO GET EVERY LAST PIECE

I'm not trying to get the last piece of XP. I'm trying to see every last piece of content the game has to offer. So it means exploring everywhere, talking to everyone and doing all side quest. Incidentally, I'm swimming in Praxis.

Plus, there's a number of Augs that I never felt the need to spent points on, since they are not that useful or fun at all.

It is not my fault Eidos Montreal put XP everywhere because probably they thought the "average gamer" would not get that much XP on a "average" playtrough.


One legitimate playstyle is clearly prioritised over others with regards to XP gain. That means only one thing: poor game balance.

True and true. The famous "right" way to play.

L0neWolf
7th Sep 2011, 06:39
how to get all aug maxed on pc: download trainer, enjoy.

ufo8mycat
7th Sep 2011, 06:49
Getting close to unlocking all the AUGS. I am up to the Picas level. Sounds like I am near the end of the game :hmm: Don't want it to end!

I am doing a second play through at the same time. Going full on GUNS. I must say it's not as fun compared to stealth or a mixture of both and yeah I noticed you don't get rewarded as much XP, but to be honest it's not really a big deal to me, as you get enough XP points for run and gun playstyle anyway.

The game definitely is prioritiesed for stealth playstyle through, but just because you get less XP with run & gun style, it doesn't stop you from playing this way. You still have the choice to play it this way and like I said you get enough XP run & gun style anyway.