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View Full Version : 3rd Person = Great Idea



the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 14:27
I've been having a wonderful time enjoying Deus Ex: Human Evolution. I especially enjoy the bits where you're able to transition from 1st person to a 3rd person view when shifting into cover and performing take downs. I remember reading a Q&A with one of the designers and him saying they wanted to implement that because they thought Jensen looked cool and it would be impossible to see if they kept him in a 1st person perspective.

Honestly I think the game would overall benefit if they players the option to play in a 3rd person perspective much like how Bethesda did with Oblivion and Fallout 3. I feel like a lot of the time when playing I constantly feel as though I'm teased with what could've as opposed to what's actually there. I think the 1st person shooter mechanics are great and can understand why they wanted to generally keep it that way (due to the tradition of the Deus Ex franchise), but... the possibilities.

It would've really nice if all you had to was press a button and then you're in a 3rd person view and then tap it again to return to 1st person. I strongly hope that they're considering this for the sequel. It would've made the game better and diverse in terms of options.

Once again, I'm not saying to get rid of the 1st person view altogether, but at least provide a different way to play the game since as a whole its about giving you options (i.e. in conversations, interacting with people, combat, dealing with situations, etc.), therefore why not apply it to the perspective you want to play the game.

Does anyone feel the same way?

Rainhands
28th Aug 2011, 15:08
They would have to alter the game mechanics if they made it in third person. E.g. imagine picking up and moving a box in third person compared to first person. That is why the third person view is so clunky in Fallout 3. So unless they are going to spend a considerable amount of time altering the game mechanics for third person then I think your request is unrealistic.

Nyysjan
28th Aug 2011, 15:13
Does anyone feel the same way?
Great idea? :scratch:
you must be drunk. :mad2:

the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 15:19
Well it's definitely not unrealistic for them to include it in the game. It's not like you're trying to make a fish walk on earth. That my friend would be unrealistic and quite impossible for that matter.

I'm not saying I want them to come out with a patch and include an all encompassing 3rd person view for gameplay. I know that is not going to happen. More so I was suggesting that in a future Deus Ex title, it would be cool if they gave players the option to play like that. And who said they need to include the ability for lifting and carrying boxes. It's not all that exciting and doesn't add much to the game except for giving you the opportunity to see what lies under or behind something. They'll be able to remove that capability.

I think it would be great if they strongly consider adding a third-person camera for the players to move around in because the way how they portray Adam Jensen in Human Revolution definitely seemed they had an affinity for the the "out-of-body" view. From going down ladders to shooting in cover and showing Jensen during dialogue sequences, he's constantly in 3rd person. It's as though they're toying with the idea that they could've made the game completely like this.

I think it would be a cool feature to have both perspective in the game for the sequel. Plus I do not think it would be TOO much work (emphasis on the word "too") because they've already laid some great foundations. All they would need to do now is find a workable and pragmatic way to include a third person camera into the gameplay, in addition to the 1st person perspective.

I, and many other like myself, would love if they provided players the choice to switch between camera angles. Deus Ex would elevate itself beyond the level of awesome into a whole other realm.

Dark Phoenix
28th Aug 2011, 15:21
I'm going to be an AZZ and say the same thing that 3rd person fans say to me when i suggest the game like Mass Effect should have a 1st player mode.

The game is not designed to be played in 3rd person mode and it would ruin the game. It would ruin the whole Deus Ex game concept. It would ruin the immerse interaction you have as being the player inside the game. All 3rd person games suck because you are Never the player, only a disembodied half dead soul controlling someone else's body.

Furthermore Op, You Must be The Devil. I advise you to duck then run, cus I'm coming for you with my crowbar. (kidding)

knicks21
28th Aug 2011, 15:21
i actualy thought about that but im not sure how theyd do it tho

Rainhands
28th Aug 2011, 15:26
And who said they need to include the ability for lifting and carrying boxes. It's not all that exciting and doesn't add much to the game except for giving you the opportunity to see what lies under or behind something. They'll be able to remove that capability.

The box was just an example. But an important one. Because of the character designs I can't imagine a full body third person. It would probably be like Mass Effect and half a waist high view. This is for the purpose of shooting, unless you had to tap a button to get into shooting mode.

Metatron1337
28th Aug 2011, 15:33
I think the option to chose whether you play 3rd Person or 1st Person would be great.
There is no real argument opposing this idea, except for the effort required to change the game mechanics slightly to accommodate this feature. (1 extra option in the menu, 2 additional mapped keys: one for changing the perspective and one for changing the weapon hand)

Don't bs here about 3rd person breaking the immersion, switching from first to third person every time you take cover feels as natural and immersive as ice skating with glass shards glued to your feet.
This is where the devs wanted to have their cake and eat it too, you can't have a proper cover based shooter without third person, but for some reason they wanted to include the immersion of a first person game as well.

And it works fine, you get used to it and I started to like it after some time, but I think playing it in 3rd person completely or take cover in 1st person would put the game on yet a higher level of challenge/fun.

Brockxz
28th Aug 2011, 15:34
And who said they need to include the ability for lifting and carrying boxes. It's not all that exciting and doesn't add much to the game except for giving you the opportunity to see what lies under or behind something. They'll be able to remove that capability.

You must be joking? How about by placing boxes you can reach some high places you woudn't be able to reach or by removing boxes you reveal new pathways and many more gameplay elements involving box carrying. That's the core gameplay element since first DX game and you want it to be removed? How about removing unnecessary third person switch when you go in cover so that game would be more true to it's core (previous games)?
I really hate when people come and start to make such stupid suggestions.

the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 15:44
One of the reasons I even bring this up is because unlike the original Deus Ex, this game features a third-person cover mechanic as well as view when interacting with certain objects and performing takedowns. They've already changed the game drastically in certain aspects (i.e. cover). Let's not pretend that this is the same Deus Ex that came out years ago, which was entirely 1st person. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is not. It mixed both views in a compelling and effective way.

Therefore if they are able to accomplish that, imagine how they can take the game in the future. It's totally plausible. It's just a matter if this is something that will improve the game and what a great number of fans want. They've already changed the game from a design perspective compared to the previous titles. Who says they can't radically alter the game again.

But again, I'm NOT saying for them to remove the 1st-person camera angle altogether. I'm not saying that. I'm suggesting that it would be cool if they give the player the choice to switch between two camera views. They are a very talented team.

I think if they dedicated a lot of time and work to it, they could possibly do it better than the guys at Bethesda. Just because one team didn't do a great good in incorporating both views doesn't mean a completely different team will deliver the same output. I think it would be a good consideration for them to appease even a broader range of players. That's just my idea.

the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 15:46
One of the reasons I even bring this up is because unlike the original Deus Ex, this game features a third-person cover mechanic as well as view when interacting with certain objects and performing takedowns. They've already changed the game drastically in certain aspects (i.e. cover). Let's not pretend that this is the same Deus Ex that came out years ago, which was entirely 1st person. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is not. It mixed both views in a compelling and effective way.

Therefore if they are able to accomplish that, imagine how they can take the game in the future. It's totally plausible. It's just a matter if this is something that will improve the game and what a great number of fans want. They've already changed the game from a design perspective compared to the previous titles. Who says they can't radically alter the game again.

But again, I'm NOT saying for them to remove the 1st-person camera angle altogether. I'm not saying that. I'm suggesting that it would be cool if they give the player the choice to switch between two camera views. They are a very talented team.

I think if they dedicated a lot of time and work to it, they could possibly do it better than the guys at Bethesda. Just because one team didn't do a great good in incorporating both views doesn't mean a completely different team will deliver the same output. I think it would be a good consideration for them to appease even a broader range of players. That's just my idea.

mad825
28th Aug 2011, 16:58
Oh god, not another person. I'll say what I said before:

Get Deus Ex for PC, use command console and type in "behindview 1". Problem solved.

Either way, the game design would need to be redesigned especially the HUD. Most of the 3rd person elements within DXHR are gimmicky anyway to show-off those cool moves that Adam Jensen uses, the main and only practical use is the cover system.

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 18:10
If there was a third person view, I probably wouldn't get simulation sickness from the game. So I approve!

the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 19:35
I believe the option to Toggle on/off 3rd person in an Deus Ex game like would absolutely complement the whole experience. While playing that was the only facet of which I felt was strongly missing. I hope the Eidos Montreal are paying attention to this thread or at least considering the idea.

BTW, I'm a 23-year-old male in college, not one of these obsessive or overzealous little kids who come up with crazy ideas to be implemented in a agame. I sincerely believe it will improve the overall experience of what is already a very solid title.

the red misfit
28th Aug 2011, 19:38
I believe the option to Toggle on/off 3rd person in an Deus Ex game like would absolutely complement the whole experience. While playing that was the only facet of which I felt was strongly missing. I hope the Eidos Montreal are paying attention to this thread or at least considering the idea.

BTW, I'm a 23-year-old male in college, not one of these obsessive or overzealous little kids who come up with crazy ideas to be implemented in a game. I sincerely believe it will improve the overall experience of what is already a very solid title.

BigBoss
28th Aug 2011, 20:51
Honestly I think the game would overall benefit if they players the option to play in a 3rd person perspective much like how Bethesda did with Oblivion and Fallout 3.

exactly

Erogath
28th Aug 2011, 20:51
Considering the addition of some 3rd person elements, Eidos did a good job imho complimenting the 1st person aspects of the game. The cover system wouldn't function properly in 1st person (for an example). However, an entirely 1st person game would improve its difficulty and require a totally different style of play (smart vision would be a must-have). There's so much information you can gather by having it 3rd person (being able to camera-pan around corners without actually sticking your head out?). I appreciate the cover system, and that you can peak his head out around the corner to view, as well as shoot around corners without completely exposing yourself, definitely makes for a better stealth game. But, I assuredly would not want to play the entire game 3rd person. I've never been a huge fan of 3rd person shooters, it's not as immersive and too high a number of them have the character off-set to one side effectively making them blind on one side.

Ludogator
28th Aug 2011, 21:49
To be honest, I'm against 3rd person perspective in games like DX, and if there was a possibility, i would disable it, so i wouldn't see it even in takedowns and covering.

However if it was an option, I would support the idea of switching between 1st and 3rd person perspective.

"However, an entirely 1st person game would improve its difficulty and require a totally different style of play (smart vision would be a must-have)"

keeping it "as is" wouldn't ruin peaking your head around a corner (same steering, same "extending" when pressing the direction key while next to the corner). It would be just more difficult, because you could actually see, what Adam can.

teddydeath7
28th Aug 2011, 23:17
Guys I want point you to Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2. The games used the same game play mechanics as Deus Ex. First person view and then third person view for cover and climbing ladders as well as sliding down ropes. Check youtube so you can see with your on eyes its possible to enable third person. When the game is designed to switch like that. They have too include all the animations of the characters movement or the moves wouldn't be in sink with the third person moves. Have you notice when Adam runs you see his hands move as well. Go see the RB Six Vegas footage. The designers have a console option to pull back the cameras to check their work and swing the camera all kind of ways. They have codes that use for the different cameras angles. For PC games as well as consoles. Like in the Rainbow Six Vegas game had a console code. You enabled the code by pressing a sequence of bottoms on your controller. You all know how that works. By the way, most rpg games that are first person have the option to switch to third person. Fallout 3 , Fallout Vegas, Elder Scrolls Oblivion and others. Its just not done very well. Thats for all you RPG purist.

jtr7
28th Aug 2011, 23:42
There will be threads like this for many years to come. :(

the red misfit
29th Aug 2011, 04:14
Considering the addition of some 3rd person elements, Eidos did a good job imho complimenting the 1st person aspects of the game. The cover system wouldn't function properly in 1st person (for an example). However, an entirely 1st person game would improve its difficulty and require a totally different style of play (smart vision would be a must-have). There's so much information you can gather by having it 3rd person (being able to camera-pan around corners without actually sticking your head out?). I appreciate the cover system, and that you can peak his head out around the corner to view, as well as shoot around corners without completely exposing yourself, definitely makes for a better stealth game. But, I assuredly would not want to play the entire game 3rd person. I've never been a huge fan of 3rd person shooters, it's not as immersive and too high a number of them have the character off-set to one side effectively making them blind on one side.

Well there are certain things you said that I agree with and others I don't. For instance I definitely agree that Eidos did a fantastic and intelligent job in incorporating the 3rd person camera in the game during sections where it mattered. The game probably would suffer with what it was trying to accomplish by being entirely in 1st or 3rd person.

The part that I'm not on the same page with is your disdain with third-person shooters and your claim of how non-immersive those games are. Since you're not a fan then I would take that you haven't played such incredible games as Red Dead Redemption, Grand Theft Auto IV or any entry from the Mass Effect trilogy. Those aforementioned titles are deeply immersive in different ways. I would strongly suggest you pick one up to see what I'm talking about. Oh, and I can't forget Batman: Arkham Asylum... Exceptional. Plus it's very awesome to see your character interact with the world and know you're not just a walking camera.

The positive attributes you stated about what the third-person brings to Deus Ex is enough evidence for why it can potentially work throughout the whole experience. Although it probably wouldn't happen because of the dedicated and long-time fans, in conjunction with the established 1st-person structure it already contains.

I just thought it would be cool if they gave people from both sides a chance to play the game the way they want it by toggling the viewpoint. The way they built the game, Eidos gives an almost equal amount of love to 1st person and 3rd person fans. It would be cool in the future they gave even a little more focus to the latter in a more prominent way, but of course, not categorically do away with 1st person.

L0neWolf
30th Aug 2011, 11:33
@thread starter
a cyberpunk rpg with Tps elements? Sign me up!
I mean i'd love it but playing from 3d person perspective would be boring since dehr is meant to be played on consoles, hence pads. And pads suck like hell regarding free targeting system (luckily for dev's since they are not working on something ground breaking regarding shooter elements). No wonder so many fps's exists: not so agressive ai, low fov, iron sight meant to slow down both player and target while making enemies huge, tunnel-like designed maps, huge hit boxes...
It'd be so easy and fun to play this with k&m
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM1c06svY4U
but because of killswitch and gow now all tps's feel like fps's since movements are limited from cover system (which creates a linear path and most of the times doesn't allow players to jump, Gow is not that different from RE) and linear and/or slow movements. Not to mention irking camera angles, takes...
Long story short, it'd be amazing to play a good tps but since pad suck deus ex should be played as fps even though it may bore people like hell. Sure, something with an autotargeting system like an augmented assassin's creed game + cover systems would be amazing but fans would be pissed and destroying a fanbase is not that smart.
If you are playing the pc version of this game just download a trainer to get all aug's and freeze the energy barr. DEHR will be much more "fun" this way. I mean, ai is so stupid there's no point challenging it