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Daisah
28th Aug 2011, 11:25
DX:HR is a wonderful game, don't get me wrong...

It's just that it doesn't feel the same as the original. The original DX, the game that, to me, defined gaming.
I'd love to see a DX1 remake to today's standards and port it to console. Think of DX1's storyline and everything
that you could do in that game, all the objects that could be interacted with, all the weapons, everything. now imagine that in HD. Actually seeing the silencer on your pistol, watching your enemies rag doll as you throw them off the statue of liberty. Spying on the girl in the toilet, this time with better curves!

I'd happily pay to buy that game again.

Boradam
28th Aug 2011, 13:33
DX:HR is a wonderful game, don't get me wrong...

It's just that it doesn't feel the same as the original. The original DX, the game that, to me, defined gaming.
I'd love to see a DX1 remake to today's standards and port it to console. Think of DX1's storyline and everything
that you could do in that game, all the objects that could be interacted with, all the weapons, everything. now imagine that in HD. Actually seeing the silencer on your pistol, watching your enemies rag doll as you throw them off the statue of liberty. Spying on the girl in the toilet, this time with better curves!

I'd happily pay to buy that game again.

Deus Ex: The Conspiracy is the closest you'll get anytime soon, I'm sure Eidios has other plans right now.

Rainhands
28th Aug 2011, 13:36
Why port it to console when virtually every modern computer can play it no problem? You are on a computer right now, download it(legally) or buy the cd and play it. Enjoy!

As for graphics, there are numerous texture packs available that dramatically improve the look of the game. I don't think a complete graphic overhaul is necessary as it is the gameplay that is most important. Human Revolution looks a little dated but that is secondary to the superb game. If you need modern graphics to play the original then I doubt that you could truly appreciate the magnificence of Deus Ex.

Arksun
28th Aug 2011, 13:48
The fact that I could play the original Deus Ex today and still feel thoroughly engaged without the poor graphics even bothering me says an aweful lot about why thats such a special game.

Dresden
28th Aug 2011, 14:16
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp".

Rainhands
28th Aug 2011, 14:19
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp".

Leave them to their ignorance. But if they ever come around and decide to play it the game will always be available. I think it's better for the developers to move on to the next story.

Ashpolt
28th Aug 2011, 14:28
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp".

And for those people, Human Revolution exists. If the original were ever to be remade with the purpose of appealing to that crowd, it would require more than a simple graphics update -imagine the reactions if they updated the graphics but left the gameplay intact.

"Y NO TAKEDOWNS?"

"NO COVER SYSTEM? FAIL!"

"TEH AIMING SUXXXXX!"

...So it'd need to have Human Revolution's gameplay changes as well. And at that point, you've got a different game: it's not a remake any more. And if they're going to the extent of making a new game, they'd be better off making an actually new game. Given the choice between playing a game with a storyline I've already played through, or playing an entirely new entry in the Deus Ex franchise, I'd take the latter - wouldn't you?

If they could remake the original Deus Ex without messing with the gameplay, it'd be a bad use of time that could be better spent making a new game. And that's the best case scenario.

cartridge
28th Aug 2011, 14:28
If you love DX1 so much then go play it!

It's not EM's job to remake games, they are not glorified modders. A new DX game would be so much better.

Dr_Bob
28th Aug 2011, 14:30
Eidos Montreal should focus on producing extensions to Human Revolution and eventually a new Deus Ex game.

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 14:36
As I've said in another thread, I wouldn't mind. It will be a new experience for most people by the time it would be released. The vast majority of gamers will not have played the original. Which could be an ancient 16+ year old game by that point. DX1 is my favorite game and has been for 10 years, but I wouldn't mind at all. To experience a new 'adaptation' / reboot would be great.

MaxxQ1
28th Aug 2011, 16:16
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp".

We got one of them right here in this forum. He's been here for a couple years.

Dark Phoenix
28th Aug 2011, 16:59
You can get lots of good mods for DX 1 including DirectX 10 drivers, New Vision and the High Definition Texture Pack, that replace most textures in the game ( actually the new OpenGL driver looks way better than any DirectX 10 driver - as well as extra enhancements in an EBSN series mod

Google The Nameless Mod, it's a 7 year long in the making mod for Deus Ex that is a total conversion containing two complete games for Deus Ex, on their forums you will find links to all the mods above, bringing Deus Ex kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Another plug for Open GL, it's way better than Direct X but most devs dont write games with it cus they are all in Microsofts Windows games and X Box pocket. Go try it on these mods and you will be blown away compared to Direct X.

Lirezh
28th Aug 2011, 18:06
DX:HR is a wonderful game, don't get me wrong...

It's just that it doesn't feel the same as the original. The original DX, the game that, to me, defined gaming.
I'd love to see a DX1 remake to today's standards and port it to console. Think of DX1's storyline and everything
that you could do in that game, all the objects that could be interacted with, all the weapons, everything. now imagine that in HD. Actually seeing the silencer on your pistol, watching your enemies rag doll as you throw them off the statue of liberty. Spying on the girl in the toilet, this time with better curves!

I'd happily pay to buy that game again.

Damn it I'd pay 5 times the price if it were good ;)
Maybe we'll be lucky and the guys from Forumcity (Nameless mod!) can do something with the new DX engine from Eidos (in case it's modable..) will work one something like that.
After all I could not imagine another mod team that's able to do proper voice acting etc.
They've created something good enough to be a commercial success (if it were not on a 10+year old engine)

Daedatheus
28th Aug 2011, 18:27
I would love for a mod team to get the rights to an HD Deus Ex remake, but really I think that's the only viable way for it to happen like the fans would want - a dev team that doesn't respond to publisher pressures or media conventions etc. but rather wants to preserve the spirit of the original game at all costs, yet bring into the hands of modern tech and modern gamers.

As a personal note it always pisses the CRAP outta me when people say "I can't stand the graphics" and don't play the game. It's such a MONUMENTALLY STUPID position to take.

- "Hey man, this movie is recognized as the greatest of all time!"
- "Sorry dude, I'm going to pass on a potentially incredible experience because I don't watch black and white movies. No colour, no watch."

I mean these very same people played games back in 2001, and never complained about the graphics then. If they were able to have fun, immersive and engaging experiences with those graphics, it's not as if the ability to do that simply vanished because new games look better. Sure modern graphics tech has a stronger potential to pull you into the game world, but one day it will look silly too, and we're enjoying it right now. Any intelligent person knows the strength of a game is not in its graphical prowess anyway. What a stupid position to take, and what a way to cheat oneself out of a potentially excellent experience.

I played DX1 for the first time in 2007, actually, and it was instantly my favourite game ever. Graphics didn't matter. On the other hand I still think the art direction and level design was pretty bland...

Vasarto
28th Aug 2011, 21:22
If they redid the game. As in DX1 but with HR Graphics and sound. Here is what I want seen done.

1. All Graphics done to what Human Revolution has but with Blue instead of yellow because Blue was the big thing in DX1.

2. Get the Cast back and redo all the voice overs in todays audio.

3. Same music but higher quallity and maybe remixed a little bit to sound even better

4.New Levels. At least 12 hours of Extra Gameplay added onto the game in story and gameplay that fits much better into the game and timeline. After all after just two or three missions your already betraying the Unatco HQ?! WTF?! You should had at least a few more missions and stuff in the game before doing that.

5. The ability to tell Jock where you want to go. So if you want to go back to New York when your in Paris for some reason you can Radio him with your info link and talk to him.

6.The ability to talk to people with your Info link on a whim instead of it being Just story that does it for you.

7.Social Boss fights like the ones in HR

8. Much much MUCH more people and side quests to do

9. More places to explore

10. Keep all the same old maps but expand them a little bit so there is more to them.

11. Redo all the augs. Make them much more powerful than Jensens and the useless ones from DX1 gone! Like the one that makes your aug a higher level lol. A Hell of a lot more gas and Water travel and swimming to make the aqualung and other augs more useful and needed so the choice between them and the other is not so easy to make.

Bloodwolf806
28th Aug 2011, 21:29
No. Deus Ex is fine as it is. Eidos Montreal should begin working on an entirely new DX game.

Fox89
28th Aug 2011, 21:31
This is gonna be the new Final Fantasy VII remake argument. For me, I would love the original Deus Ex remastered and re-imagined to incorporate and improve upon the Human Revolution mechanics and story. Like Konami did with MGS: The Twin Snakes.

I would want original voice actors for the major characters or at least VERY good sound-a-likes, but yeah. I would love it. Although the original DX still has a bit more sophistication than Human Revolution, the gameplay mechanics are a vast improvement on the original. I think Deus Ex is a very strong contender for a remake. But I'm not exactly going to get my hopes up, I just hope Eidos Montreal do another Deus Ex game. If it's a remake, great. If it's a sequel, great. If it's an entirely new canon following similar plot and gameplay themes, great!

Ludogator
28th Aug 2011, 22:12
Leave them to their ignorance. But if they ever come around and decide to play it the game will always be available. I think it's better for the developers to move on to the next story.

If I was a developer, and had all the rights to the series, I would release a new version of the first game with updated graphics if HR will sell well. First game had a unique story, and being a sequel to the new game, it can be a great seller.

I, beeing a fan of System Shock series, was forcing myself to try the first deus ex game for a long time. I did it about a year ago, and since then it is the second best game I've ever played. It took its second place from Half Life 1 :] (btw, I'm happy it took me so long, so I could play an awesome game when it is hard to find any)



I would want original voice actors for the major characters or at least VERY good sound-a-likes (...)

I would keep them original

Varasalvi
28th Aug 2011, 23:32
DX:HR is a wonderful game, don't get me wrong...

It's just that it doesn't feel the same as the original. The original DX, the game that, to me, defined gaming.
I'd love to see a DX1 remake to today's standards and port it to console. Think of DX1's storyline and everything
that you could do in that game, all the objects that could be interacted with, all the weapons, everything. now imagine that in HD. Actually seeing the silencer on your pistol, watching your enemies rag doll as you throw them off the statue of liberty. Spying on the girl in the toilet, this time with better curves!

I'd happily pay to buy that game again.


You may have a point... but i do not agree. Human Revolution did a fantastic job of keeping the spirit of the first game. Very few succeed in doing so.

njtp
1st Jul 2012, 13:24
I don't think the desire for updated graphics and physics means you don't appreciate the brilliance of a game. I still play Team Fortress Classic and I don't want the graphics or physics improved because of nostalgia, however I also really like the remade version on the updated engine. For that game the immersion isn't story it's game play; but I never played the original DX beyond the training level so I don't have that nostalgia for it and my point of reference is DX:HR.

I've begun playing DX despite the ancient graphics and physics. My impression so far (I'm still right at the beginning) is that it's mind-blowingly revolutionary, already it's demonstrated many of the wonderful things I enjoyed in HR and to think it did all that a decade before! However I would like to play it updated to modern standards graphically and there's nothing wrong with that - a remake doesn't make the old original disappear! It's still there for the people who want it.

For me the immersion would be improved because I don't have nostalgia for it - I still think TFC is better than TF2 but I know that it isn't really better, there were only 3 realistic class options, it was completely unbalanced in that regard, yet it was one of the first PC games I ever played and nostalgia trumps reality every time because your brain is already wired (literally) to think it's great. I'd have thought fans of a cyberpunk game like DX and HR would have considered the neuroscience of perception and immersion... But I guess my emotional dampening implant allows me to be more objective than you non-augs ;P

Seriously though, at the very least a higher fidelity soundtrack would be a great mod for the original DX right? A remastered soundtrack and a little graphical modification is well within the scope of the modder community if we only get in contact with some musical people from outside of our little bubble of fandom :D

I suggest the HL2 engine given the incredible flexibility it seems to allow; anyone whose seen/played with Gary's Mod will know what I mean.

JCpies
1st Jul 2012, 15:44
Seriously though, at the very least a higher fidelity soundtrack would be a great mod for the original DX right? A remastered soundtrack and a little graphical modification is well within the scope of the modder community if we only get in contact with some musical people from outside of our little bubble of fandom :D

Why do we need musical people from outside our bubble of fandom, when Jerion is doing almost exactly what you describe.

There are also a few graphics mods available already as well as Deus Ex: Revision which revamps, expands and upgrades the original game, and there are so many more that I have not mentioned. Go to ModDB.

Shralla
1st Jul 2012, 17:21
11. Redo all the augs. Make them much more powerful than Jensens and the useless ones from DX1 gone! Like the one that makes your aug a higher level lol.

Uh.... How is that useless?

El_Bel
1st Jul 2012, 20:34
By using the synthetic heart, if you find all the aug upgrades, you can come close to having every augmentation at level 4. (You will be 4 upgrades sort)

FakePersonality
12th Aug 2012, 17:51
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp
Tried to play the first game thousands of time but I get physically sick (nausea, headaches) when I do - I get it with other games, probly something with refresh rates. I tried everything to fix it, but no-go, so I can't play.
Lots of people won't give a game older than 3 years a try tho, so I see where you're coming from


I think it's better for the developers to move on to the next story.
So do I. We need some bethesda-like modding tools from deus ex so we can make it o.o

LaputanMachine
5th Sep 2012, 20:30
While I think the original is perfectly fine as is, I would absolutely love a remake, even if they did it in the current HR engine.

As long as they didn't chop up the existing story/characters, I would be ok with it. So what if they added ADS and a different combat system? That's not the reason we all love DX 1... of course some of the mechanics were great, but for me, it was all about the excellent story, characters, music, replayability, scenery, and of course consequence of choice.

As long as all that was kept pure, merely updated with a new engine, I think it would do well. I'd sure as hell play it. I still play the classic like mad.

Shralla
6th Sep 2012, 03:25
Actually seeing the silencer on your pistol

You can't put a silencer on your pistol, noob. That's what the stealth pistol is for.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Sep 2012, 06:46
The fact that I could play the original Deus Ex today and still feel thoroughly engaged without the poor graphics even bothering me says an aweful lot about why thats such a special game.

Agreed. It's also the same with the original two Thief games. :thumb:

nomotog
6th Sep 2012, 06:46
It might be neat to see a remake with some of the stuff they had to cut.


... They should do that with HR too....

no149
6th Sep 2012, 17:45
As a personal note it always pisses the CRAP outta me when people say "I can't stand the graphics" and don't play the game. It's such a MONUMENTALLY STUPID position to take.

- "Hey man, this movie is recognized as the greatest of all time!"
- "Sorry dude, I'm going to pass on a potentially incredible experience because I don't watch black and white movies. No colour, no watch."



I CAN play the original and disregard the dated graphics and I'll be enjoying the game nonetheless, it'sa freaking game after all. But I doubt I will feel for the characters, as I did with HR.

And please don't compare black and white movies with games like that. Movies are still movies with real characters, real people playing roles, no matter colorful or otherwise. It can still deliver the exact feelings to the watcher. Same can't be said about a bunch of -in this case- dated pixels, in which you are also a character, not simply an outsider.

Also I really can't stand some attitude of some people.

The very first game I played was the first Hitman game and I feel almost the same level of nostalgia about it as some holy people here do with regards to DX:Original. But I won't go to the Hitman forums and call the Hitman newcomers ignorant for not appereciating the original game as much as I do. Same goes for any alike GTA newcomers who don't appreciate Vice City for instance (though I doubt there are many).

Brains don't think or function alike all the time, accept it.

EricaLeeV
6th Sep 2012, 17:49
I CAN play the original and disregard the dated graphics and I'll be enjoying the game nonetheless, it'sa freaking game after all. But I doubt I will feel for the characters, as I did with HR.

And please don't compare black and white movies with games like that. Movies are still movies with real characters, real people playing roles, no matter colorful or otherwise. It can still deliver the exact feelings to the watcher. Same can't be said about a bunch of -in this case- dated pixels, in which you are also a character, not simply an outsider.

Also I really can't stand some attitude of some people.

The very first game I played was the first Hitman game and I feel almost the same level of nostalgia about it as some holy people here do with regards to DX:Original. But I won't go to the Hitman forums and call the Hitman newcomers ignorant for not appereciating the original game as much as I do. Same goes for any alike GTA newcomers who don't appreciate Vice City for instance (though I doubt there are many).

Brains don't think or function alike all the time, accept it.

I doubt graphics will have much of an impact on how you will see these characters.

Have you never played old games and gotten attached to the characters? Read a book with no images but still care about the people that the text made you picture?


Imagination, my good fellow. You have it, so I wouldn't worry about that if I were you.

no149
6th Sep 2012, 18:28
I doubt graphics will have much of an impact on how you will see these characters.

Beucause it is an interactive medium made of pixels, it does for me.



Have you never played old games and gotten attached to the characters?

I'm not a hardcore gamer by any means, but yeah Max Payne 1 had such an impact on me, more so with the second game. I played it many years ago and it did feel right at the time and , my memory may not be serving me well, but it felt better graphics-wise than the first Deus Ex. Maybe something more than GFX was the stimulus though.


Read a book with no images but still care about the people that the text made you picture?

Sure, cause there were no visuals to transmit the picture through my eyes so my brain can interpret it readily.


Imagination, my good fellow. You have it, so I wouldn't worry about that if I were you.

I see what you mean. Press my brain with notably different background in this case compared to yours to interpret an interactive medium with sound and vision namely the original Deus Ex differently. Thanks.

EricaLeeV
6th Sep 2012, 18:57
I...am not sure you got what I was trying to say.


What I am saying is just leave your preconceived notions behind and just play the thing with as open as a mind as possible. Think what you will about it.

nomotog
6th Sep 2012, 19:09
Any problems with the game have nothing to do with pixels. Graphics have a miniscule effect on play. If your having a hard time connecting with the characters in DX1, It's got more to do with the story.

no149
6th Sep 2012, 19:12
Yeah yeah, I certainly understand your position. Let's just say it is difficult given my experience with the series which I'm sure you can understand, as I can understand you too. Nostalgia my friend, it is the driving factor here, as my feeling about the first Hitman was identical to your Deus Ex feeling, and I can only imagine how deep a nostalgia you have for the game because of all the open setting and fanciful gameplay.

EricaLeeV
6th Sep 2012, 19:21
:I If you are talking to me No, I doubt it's 'nostalgia' when you just played the original for the first time a little less than two years ago...which I did.


Incidentally, I also have a kid sister who played the thing and loves it to death. She also has an appreciation for good graphics in more recent games,too.

no149
6th Sep 2012, 19:21
Any problems with the game have nothing to do with pixels. Graphics have a miniscule effect on play. If your having a hard time connecting with the characters in DX1, It's got more to do with the story.

Is any sort of love story involved in DX1? Because, well, out of the few games I have played so far, the ones that hurt my feeling to the point of crying have been Max Payne and DX:HR. In the opening scenes of both games, a love story is unveiled. That might explain a lack of deep feeling toward DX1 in my heart; It could be the principal reason.



:I If you are talking to me No, I doubt it's 'nostalgia' when you just played the original for the first time a little less than two years ago...which I did.


Well then, I'm not sure what it is exactly that's preventing me to connect to it. Whatever it is, I can't force myself into loving something, it has to pull me inward instead.

nomotog
6th Sep 2012, 19:49
Is any sort of love story involved in DX1? Because, well, out of the few games I have played so far, the ones that hurt my feeling to the point of crying have been Max Payne and DX:HR. In the opening scenes of both games, a love story is unveiled. That might explain a lack of deep feeling toward DX1 in my heart; It could be the principal reason.


DX shouldn't invoke deep feelings, or really any feelings. Most characters are rather wooden and exist mainly to drive the plot or talk about how this or that form of government is flawed.

I was never all that impressed with the story. Of coarse, I don't play it for the story.

EricaLeeV
6th Sep 2012, 20:00
DX shouldn't invoke deep feelings, or really any feelings. Most characters are rather wooden and exist mainly to drive the plot or talk about how this or that form of government is flawed.

Now there is where you are wrong Nomotog.


It is the charming love story of one machine's crush on a man who acts just as robotic.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2725/heliosdesu.png

"I hope JC senpai will notice me!"


Will it ever find love?


Yeah, the voice acting can leave something to be desired if that's a deal breaker for you.

no149
6th Sep 2012, 20:49
Now there is where you are wrong Nomotog.


It is the charming love story of one machine's crush on a man who acts just as robotic.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2725/heliosdesu.png

"I hope JC senpai will notice me!"


Will it ever find love?


Yeah, the voice acting can leave something to be desired if that's a deal breaker for you.

Was that a sarcasm? If yes, that's exactly where we part ways in how we perceive the games. For me the first game seems to be all about robots and machines (though admittedly I haven't played the game as much to give a verdict like this, but the first two levels simply don't raise any deep feeling in me), but in HR even the females attached to the Hyron evoke deep feelings in me; The hobos that beg for money and sleeping on the dirty streets which smack of tyranny, their words and style tell me something worth a story in itself. The whole setting and not just the graphics, make me feel the cruelty that is running through the veins of cities.
If you can't see what I'm saying. then this is it, no more arguing is needed really, my perception is different that yours. Simple.

EricaLeeV
6th Sep 2012, 21:03
Was that a sarcasm? If yes, that's exactly where we part ways in how we perceive the games. For me the first game seems to be all about robots and machines (though admittedly I haven't played the game as much to give a verdict like this, but the first two levels simply don't raise any deep feeling in me), but in HR even the females attached to the Hyron evoke deep feelings in me; The hobos that beg for money and sleeping on the dirty streets which smack of tyranny, their words and style tell me something worth a story in itself. The whole setting and not just the graphics, make me feel the cruelty that is running through the veins of cities.
If you can't see what I'm saying. then this is it, no more arguing is needed really, my perception is different that yours. Simple.

.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHCzFslhiik&t=0m54s)

68_pie
6th Sep 2012, 21:35
Now there is where you are wrong Nomotog.


It is the charming love story of one machine's crush on a man who acts just as robotic.

I thought JC always had a thing for Maggie.

Characters in DX were more there to drive plot and to help you to ruminate on the themes.

Jerion
6th Sep 2012, 21:41
If you're wondering whether or not that was a joke, I think your sarcasm meter needs to be re-calibrated.

One element that might be getting in the way of you enjoying DX, is that DX:HR has a very strong sense of identity and direction, which DX 1 lacks. Instead, where HR sets you on a somewhat curving and evolving journey, DX 1 sets you on a more...angular path, turning in different directions, bringing in new characters, expanding the worldview and telling different stories as the plot develops across several different chapters. It doesn't really pick up and start revealing its true nature until around the time you make your first globe-trotting trip. Is the story told as effectively or as with as much sophistication, or for that matter with the level of emotion that HR brings? For the most part, no. The production value, where the voice acting and storytelling is concerned simply doesn't compare between the two games. But the story is also told differently. I can best describe the difference as this: DX is a smart game. DX:HR, honestly, not quite as smart (exception: The Missing Link). But unlike the original, it is also a smartly told game, and for people who really connect on a narrative level, that makes a big difference.

ColBashar
6th Sep 2012, 23:43
I -really- didn't want to bring this up but since this topic has managed to span two threads in as many weeks, may as well I bring out the psychology. What I see here is a divergence of the Jungian cognitive functions of Sensing and Intuition. Now while everybody is sensitive and intuitive to various degrees, we all tend to respond better to one over the other.

In brief, sensing is an appreciation of physical properties while intuition is an appreciation of abstract thoughts. If a person favours the sensory cognitive function then they are more apt to pick up and respond to visual stimuli, from the obvious like colours and shapes, to the more subtle like mannerisms and body language. The significance of these nuances is more likely to be lost by a person who favours intuition, who takes greater appreciation in ideas and are better at separating or compartmentalizing physical objects from the abstract concepts with which we imbue them.

So from where I'm sitting, the Great Divide between Deus Ex and Human Revolution where graphics and story are concerned (I'm leaving gameplay mechanics out of this) may stem in large part from our inner personalities. Human Revolution provides a sumptuous feast of visual and auditory driven -atmosphere- that Sensory people can sink their teeth in while Deus Ex is chock full of -ideas- to tickle the mind of any Intuitive.

JCpies
7th Sep 2012, 12:21
I suppose you make a valid point, though I don't know how prominent it is, if at all.

It may apply to the characters, especially since Deus Ex is quite character driven.

Maye an SF dominated person would look at Jaime Reyes as a 'pixelated box man' while an NT for example may see focus more on his qualities as a character rather than his low-res character model and basic expressions.

Zerim
7th Sep 2012, 13:43
Now there is where you are wrong Nomotog.


It is the charming love story of one machine's crush on a man who acts just as robotic.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2725/heliosdesu.png

"I hope JC senpai will notice me!"


Will it ever find love?


I am so tempted to make that pic my new avatar.

I laughed at it for like a full minute.

EricaLeeV
7th Sep 2012, 14:43
I am so tempted to make that pic my new avatar.

I laughed at it for like a full minute.

Do it.


If you really want to, I mean. And thank you. :J

Zerim
8th Sep 2012, 05:46
Done! I'm like a new man! Fresh out the package.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
3rd Oct 2012, 02:35
If you're wondering whether or not that was a joke, I think your sarcasm meter needs to be re-calibrated.

One element that might be getting in the way of you enjoying DX, is that DX:HR has a very strong sense of identity and direction, which DX 1 lacks. Instead, where HR sets you on a somewhat curving and evolving journey, DX 1 sets you on a more...angular path, turning in different directions, bringing in new characters, expanding the worldview and telling different stories as the plot develops across several different chapters. It doesn't really pick up and start revealing its true nature until around the time you make your first globe-trotting trip. Is the story told as effectively or as with as much sophistication, or for that matter with the level of emotion that HR brings? For the most part, no. The production value, where the voice acting and storytelling is concerned simply doesn't compare between the two games. But the story is also told differently. I can best describe the difference as this: DX is a smart game. DX:HR, honestly, not quite as smart (exception: The Missing Link). But unlike the original, it is also a smartly told game, and for people who really connect on a narrative level, that makes a big difference.

This is the problem with any remake of DX1. DX1 was planned to allow players to play as UNATCO on arrival in Hong Kong or to play as NSF, depending on interaction with Paul of course.
Also the Salvagers, the passenger liner in space, the Texas NSF breakout and the female AI on the moon are huge aspects the story missing, that contribute to the disjointed and rushed/linear feel somewhere during Paris. It's even part of the plot when you reach the Gas Station, if you chose a certain path, you'll meet Sandra Renton, reminiscing about the earlier part of the game. An accurate remake of DX1 still leaves you with these issues.

I can't wait to see what EM do next, I'm glad it will be something new.

There's a million threads on the community remaking DX1 and in fact a UDK project was underway some time ago.
There's always hopes and dreams of getting to rework the source code, but I think the future for DX1 besides new single player customers, will be online co-op based RPG and a small "classic" DX crowd. Human Revolution is just the beginning of the new era of DX games and I can't wait to see what's next. It's nice to think about a crystal SDK being a reality one day too.

jc_denton02
28th Oct 2012, 21:59
please eidos/square do a remake of the legendary classic deus ex the conspriracy and release it on xbla/psn.it would be proper baad using todays tech you only have to update the graphics and just add few new things.i would pre order it or dl it from xbla as soon as it were to release totally loved de1...and i rate dehr about 9.7/10.also please could you release a new dlc for dehr some new missions people are asking for it.....

nsf001
29th Oct 2012, 14:29
If an remake is possible,I hope they use Cry engine 3...

3rdmillhouse
29th Oct 2012, 19:13
You can't put a silencer on your pistol, noob. That's what the stealth pistol is for.

You know what he means.

Galaxus
17th Dec 2012, 04:43
Yes they should remake Deus Ex (1) with the latest tech and Warren Spector.

nsf001
17th Dec 2012, 14:20
http://www.moddb.com/mods/deus-ex-revision

rasha magdi
6th Dec 2013, 02:27
It would be good for newcomers. You'd be surprised how many people won't play the original because "the graphics are too old hurp derp".

sure, graphic is important element, they should observe the graphic as the same degree of importance of the game itself.

Jito463
6th Dec 2013, 05:13
While a well done remake could be an incredible experience, I have significant doubts that any remake would be nearly as great as the original. I'm not talking about nostalgia, I'm talking about actual skill-based gameplay.

For just one example, in the original, you could play through the entire game using just the baton and the riot prod. However, you couldn't just go whacking things randomly, you actually had to target specific sections of the body (for most people, it was the head, for MIB's and MJ12 armored troopers, it was the middle of the back). It actually required skill and precision, or you'd just injure/alarm the enemy, instead of knocking them out. Human Revolution, on the other hand, just requires you get near an enemy and press a button. No skill required, to coin a phrase, just "press a button, and awesome happens (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFMtF-w-o_M)".

That's not to say that I don't find HR enjoyable, but it's still a pale imitation of the original. It's a far sight better than IW, but that's not really saying much.

besyuziki
8th Dec 2013, 10:04
Remaking the original for HOW DO I WIN? people would be a waste of time and money. People who find Deus Ex "dated" or "unplayable" don't deserve a remake with compromises, because what made it so special in the first place was being uncompromising. You don't even need a high-end PC, the game runs on my Casio digital watch and there are many quality of life improvements and facelifts handy. If one still finds Deus Ex unplayable at that state, one obviously doesn't appreciate it.

"But... but... I want to learn about the story... ;_;"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDF_pIaRzTQ

HERESY
9th Dec 2013, 19:50
Yes they should remake Deus Ex (1) with the latest tech and Warren Spector.

lol

JCpies
9th Dec 2013, 21:44
If Warren Spector merged back with Harvey and the Dishonored crew, had a high budget and little to no corporate interference...

My god. They could make one hell of a game.

HERESY
10th Dec 2013, 02:48
If Warren Spector merged back with Harvey and the Dishonored crew, had a high budget and little to no corporate interference...

My god. They could make one hell of a game.

lolol

Shralla
10th Dec 2013, 03:31
If Warren Spector merged back with Harvey and the Dishonored crew, had a high budget and little to no corporate interference...

My god. They could make one hell of a game.

I don't think Warren Spector is as integral to the formula as most people think. Raphael Colantonio did a fantastic job on Dishonored, and I expect great things from any potential sequel or anything else coming from Arkane.

CyberP
10th Dec 2013, 07:34
I don't think Warren Spector is as integral to the formula as most people think. Raphael Colantonio did a fantastic job on Dishonored, and I expect great things from any potential sequel or anything else coming from Arkane.

Deus Ex was Warren Spector's imagining. John Romero approached him and said "go, make the game of your dreams". Said game that was his concept since 1994, when it was titled "troubleshooter". He was also the producer of System Shock, a game of similar principles. As integral as it gets, though his team obviously were vital to it's conceptualization also. Spector's Deus Ex post-mortem or design document shows just how integral he was, really.

And Dishonored is lacklustre....but I'm not starting that again.

Shralla
10th Dec 2013, 08:39
There is definitely a ton of room for improvement in Dishonored. The narrative is clearly the most blatant area that it is lacking in. And while I would assume you have issues with the player empowerment side of things, Dishonored is a different game than Deus Ex was in a lot of ways and is clearly designed for a more modern audience from the ground up.

I expect good things from the sequel because from what I saw in Dishonored, they made good use of the resources they were given and I assume that with the success of Dishonored and the DLCs, their budget for the second one will be more impressive. I am optimistic that they will put it to good use, and if they were to design a Deus Ex game, I think it would turn out much more like the classic Deus Ex we know and love than Human Revolution did.

CyberP
10th Dec 2013, 08:41
There is definitely a ton of room for improvement in Dishonored. The narrative is clearly the most blatant area that it is lacking in. And while I would assume you have issues with the player empowerment side of things, Dishonored is a different game than Deus Ex was in a lot of ways and is clearly designed for a more modern audience from the ground up.

I expect good things from the sequel because from what I saw in Dishonored, they made good use of the resources they were given and I assume that with the success of Dishonored and the DLCs, their budget for the second one will be more impressive. I am optimistic that they will put it to good use, and if they were to design a Deus Ex game, I think it would turn out much more like the classic Deus Ex we know and love than Human Revolution did.

Acknowledged and agreed with all.

But this is the problem:


clearly designed for a more modern audience from the ground up.

I know such a thing was not necessary, and art suffered because of it. And that upsets me.

ColBashar
10th Dec 2013, 19:56
There's no denying that I'm a big Warren Spector fan. He was the catalyst for bringing Deus Ex to fruition in 2000 and his design principles had a direct influence in forming my own. Having said that, I'm not sure I'd want him leading the development team for a new Deus Ex game in the same way I don't want George Lucas involved in any more Star Wars movies. To be fair, I'm pretty certain Spector wouldn't be interested in the job if it were offered to him. Time changes people and Spector's preferences as a developer today are different from what was needed to make Deus Ex a reality a decade ago.

I'm also skeptical of entrusting the job to Arkane Studios so long as it's in the fold of Bethesda. As much I enjoyed Dishonored (which I regard as three parts Thief, two parts System Shock, and one part Deus Ex) I think the studio would be facing the same pressures that Eidos Montreal did in making Human Revolution accessible. What it comes down to is money. For a publisher to invest the millions of dollars needed to produce a "AAA" game, the game has to promise sales to match. I really don't think a remake of DX1 with improved cosmetics is really going to be as popularly successful as some of the hard core fans believe. Again, times change and the AAA game of yesterday is the niche title of today.

I think the only way to get a sequel to Deus Ex, spiritual or otherwise, is to produce it as a mid-ranged title. Make it a project smaller than anything the Big publishers like Square and EA would be interested in. My recipe would be as follows:

1) Concentrate on the essentials. Put the focus on the mechanics, the narrative, and perhaps most importantly, the map design. Cosmetic attributes like graphics should be made to be "good enough", as they can be easily updated after the fact.

2) Ensure longevity. One of the reasons AAA games are often criticized for innovation is because they're so focused on reaping maximum profit in the first year of publication. For a modest budget niche title, it's the long game that's important. To make a Deus Ex remake or sequel successful it would be ideal to make the engine moddable and the development tools intuitive enough to be packaged into an SDK and used by non-professionals. Don't just build a game, built a platform. As long as both are done right, a large chunk of development can be outsourced to modders for free.

3) Continue development after publication. One mistake I think Ion Storm made back in the day was to switch gears to making Invisible War rather than build an expansion pack. Once the game's shipped out the door, use the resources at hand to keep constructing new gameplay experiences. More maps, campaigns, challenge modes, new and expanded storylines. I know there's a lot of animosity toward DLC but I don't think anybody has a problem with paying extra for Dishonored's Daud campaign.

4) Don't compromise. In terms of mechanics, this is obvious; that's why I'm calling it a niche title. But in terms of price it's very easy for lesser known titles to feel pressured into the bargain bin after the first earnings reports come in. As long as points 1 and 2 are observed, the publisher should pick a price point that's fair and stick to it. I think an initial price point of $40 to be fair with a gradual settling to $20, only dropping to $10 once a sequel is in production.

A company that's been good at observing these standards has been Stardock. Galactic Civilizations II was released seven years ago and is still commands respect in its genre. It took three iterations before Elemental became good, transitioning to Fallen Enchantress until finally settling on Legendary Heroes. The point is that they followed through on their investment, looking for a long term return rather than focus on quarterly earnings. They've done a good enough job of it that now their games are starting to look good in addition to playing well.

Now, obviously, Stardock makes strategy games, not ARPGs. I'm not suggesting them as a developer, but I think that in today's market that their publishing model is what would be required to make a modern Deus Ex game that holds true to the principles of the original. An Arkane-Stardock-Kickstarter combo could do the trick.

CyberP
10th Dec 2013, 20:55
I really don't think a remake of DX1 with improved cosmetics is really going to be as popularly successful as some of the hard core fans believe. Again, times change and the AAA game of yesterday is the niche title of today.

So Dark Souls and Fallout: New Vegas are niche?

Dark Souls being as hardcore as it gets and New Vegas having similar principles to Deus Ex.

Giving Deus Ex visual appeal, good meshes, animations, and everything else (where necessary), it could easily be a big hit today. FP/RPGs are very popular today and Deus Ex up-scaled faithfully and tactfully could put those lesser games in their place.


I think the only way to get a sequel to Deus Ex, spiritual or otherwise, is to produce it as a mid-ranged title.

Would probably be for the best.


4) Don't compromise. In terms of mechanics, this is obvious; that's why I'm calling it a niche title. But in terms of price it's very easy for lesser known titles to feel pressured into the bargain bin after the first earnings reports come in. As long as points 1 and 2 are observed, the publisher should pick a price point that's fair and stick to it. I think an initial price point of $40 to be fair with a gradual settling to $20, only dropping to $10 once a sequel is in production.

It's not hard to code in some optional objective markers and place them in the maps and such. I would welcome them as long as the game/plot/progression was designed without considering them, as in NPC's still give you directions, satellite images etc. A little bit more effort than coding an easy difficulty mode, not really a problem.

There can be additional fairly easy to implement optional afterthoughts such as passwords/passcodes displayed automatically as in Human Revolution, disable localized health and in place is a health bar and so on. As long as they are added towards the end of development and are implemented in such a way that it doesn't compromise everything else, which again is easy because bools. Of course they would still be a small drain of resources, but it may be necessary, and if it brings in some extra profits for the developer/publisher who does everything right then it should be.

Jito463
11th Dec 2013, 15:00
New Vegas having similar principles to Deus Ex.

Huh? Would you care to elaborate on what you mean by that?

ColBashar
11th Dec 2013, 16:30
ARPGs certainly aren't niche but Looking Glass style "ImSims" are. Why do you think Dishonored gets so much attention in spite of being, as you put it, "lacklustre"? I wrote a post a while back explaining a whole mess of things I didn't like about the game but I still love it because it's the nearest thing to something Looking Glass might have made but with -good- graphics, animations, etc.

As for FNV, bear in mind that it's essentially a stand alone expansion to Fallout 3. It was Bethesda that put the resources into building a AAA game engine. Part of the reason that F3/NV has such a lasting appeal is because they followed steps 2 and 3 on my plan to rebuild Deus Ex. They built the engine to be moddable and published a powerful SDK to that effect and they contracted Obsidian to continue producing content after they moved on to work on Skyrim. In my opinion it took Josh Sawyer and a host of modders before F3/NV got "hard core".

Unfortunately my opinion doesn't pay the bills. I just did a quick google search for "fo3 vs fnv" and the first result was this (http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/fallout-3-vs-fallout-new-vegas.206592656/) thread on the IGN boards. The majority consensus was that Fallout 3 was the superior of the two games. Certainly not a consensus I'm a part of but bear in mind that to the publisher, all customers are the same. The person who pays $60 and plays for 20 hours is just as important as the one who pays $60 and plays for 200 hours. The person who pays $60 and loves earning achievements is just as important as the one who pays $60 and enjoys making hard choices.

I used to think that Bethesda was made up of bad designers. Eventually I realized that they're really made up of good publishers. Fallout 3 and even New Vegas' "casual" elements are what brought in the money to allow the production of a Dishonored. But in general the more expensive your production the wider an audience you have to cater to and that includes a huge host of people who don't post on these forums. That's why I believe that the only way to make a true Deus Ex game is with a modest budget. It's the only, short of Howard Hughes stepping in, means to ensure the integrity of the mechanics.

Slight tangent, I found this set of videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw) on youtube demonstrating what Doom would have looked like if id software had followed modern FPS conventions. It was actually more amusing than I expected it to be.

Agreed on customizability, though. The more ownership you give the player over the game the better. I don't know why System Shock 1's difficulty sliders never caught on.

CyberP
11th Dec 2013, 17:11
ARPGs certainly aren't niche but Looking Glass style "ImSims" are.

Why? I consider FO:NV vanilla an "ImSim". The design is all there, it's just open world. FO3 lead designer was a LGS dev, for one, then Obsidian made the RPG elements more old school in addition to other great touches and there it is, a modern Immersive Sim that actually consists of good design and is popular.



Why do you think Dishonored gets so much attention in spite of being, as you put it, "lacklustre"?

Marketing & Bethesda's tag on the lid, as well as it being an amazing game by modern standards, but a lacklustre one by ours.


As for FNV, bear in mind that it's essentially a stand alone expansion to Fallout 3. It was Bethesda that put the resources into building a AAA game engine.


I consider it a game in it's own right, despite recycling half a million assets. But yes, without FO3 there would be no New Vegas, or if it did exist it would have cost Obsidian/their publisher a lot of money.


Unfortunately my opinion doesn't pay the bills. I just did a quick google search for "fo3 vs fnv" and the first result was this (http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/fallout-3-vs-fallout-new-vegas.206592656/) thread on the IGN boards. The majority consensus was that Fallout 3 was the superior of the two games. Certainly not a consensus I'm a part of but bear in mind that to the publisher, all customers are the same. The person who pays $60 and plays for 20 hours is just as important as the one who pays $60 and plays for 200 hours. The person who pays $60 and loves earning achievements is just as important as the one who pays $60 and enjoys making hard choices.

Yes. I encounter this opinion all the time, another one that gets me irritated, but not quite so much because FO3 is still quite a good game. It's always the same reason given as well, that FO3 had better atmosphere/setting, which is fair enough, there is no science behind "oh I prefer DC to a desert" (despite NV only being ~5% desert), entirely in one's head. These people don't study/compare/value game mechanics and such obviously, if that is the only reason they can give.


Fallout 3 and even New Vegas' "casual" elements are what brought in the money to allow the production of a Dishonored.

What, objective markers and fast travel? I wouldn't exactly call them casual, not for an open world game. Sure I'd prefer if they didn't exist and NPC directions, maps, and compasses were necessary instead but Objective markers and fast travel in an open world game I wouldn't call casual.
And even then I mentioned that such handholders can be implemented in Deus Ex relatively easily without compromising the experience much for newcomers/at all for us.


But in general the more expensive your production the wider an audience you have to cater to and that includes a huge host of people who don't post on these forums. That's why I believe that the only way to make a true Deus Ex game is with a modest budget. It's the only, short of Howard Hughes stepping in, means to ensure the integrity of the mechanics.

I'm not convinced, not entirely. You are probably right but if Dark Souls and FO:NV can be more than successful then so can a 'AAA' DX remake. It's all about marketing anyway


Slight tangent, I found this set of videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4yIxUOWrtw) on youtube demonstrating what Doom would have looked like if id software had followed modern FPS conventions. It was actually more amusing than I expected it to be.

Let me guess, "if Doom was made today"? yeah, hilarious and saddening.


Agreed on customizability, though. The more ownership you give the player over the game the better. I don't know why System Shock 1's difficulty sliders never caught on.

Well, I am mixed on that, actually. As I mentioned before in your mod thread, I believe some things should be forced on the player. For example when I first played DX years ago it was a real turn off, I cannot remember the specifics except ugly graphics, but there was likely more to it than that because I've never really been a graphics whore even as a kid, but then I tried again and loved it, the game didn't give in, it forced me to play it as it should be played, genius design and all.
But then there should be some things that are customizable- neccessary personal preferences such as Invert aim, sensitivity, crouch toggle. I only mention optional objective markers as a necessary evil for sales, but if money was not an issue then there should be no objective markers, people should be forced to play the true way or not at all.
And then there are Japanese hardcore console titles such as Dark Souls that force you to play their way, their masterfully designed challenge.
But other than the above, yes options are great as long as they are for the appropriate things. I don't believe the more customization the better if said options compromise design.


Huh? Would you care to elaborate on what you mean by that?

The only major difference is that it is open world, the principles are mostly the same. First Person, Role Playing. Simulation. Multiple solutions to one problem more often than not. prioritizes FPP. Similar approach to RPG systems. Exploration is a major focus, highly interactive and reactive world, graphics fidelity as close to the bottom of the budget allocation list as can be and so on.