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Ragequit
28th Aug 2011, 04:20
I just thought I'd share my personal experience with those having any problems with the 4 bosses in the game.

Difficulty - * * * * * -

Barret Lawrence - * * -
- Throwing the barrels and some grenades did the trick, just took a couple of tries to get it done fast enough so he didn't regain his footing. Not much to say as this fight is so straight forward, just a few trial and error runs to get it right.

Yelena Fedorova - * * * * * -
- First, I did NOT have emp shield aug, so having her hit those power whatevers was not an option as it killed me quickly. What I found worked for me was a large supply of all types of mines, while sticking to the outside portion of the room, and throwing mines in the middle, far enough in I wouldn't activate it myself but not too far as to have her partially behind a wall activating it. Whenever she hit a claymore (especially EMP/Concussion), I would blast her with the heavy rifle (although revolver and pistol work equally fine). Main problem with her is her melee, when it hits, it hits hard, and there is **** all you can do about it.

Jaron Namir - * * * * -
Definitely NOT as hard as Fedorova, at this point I did have the EMP shield, and the gas shield aug would've been nice but it didn't really affect any of my attempts. Again for this fight I found claymores and grenades to be exceptionally useful, especially EMP grenades, which removed him from stealth for a very substantial period of time. Aside from that, same tactics as Yelena, just stick to the outer ring of the room, and throw the claymores at the entrances to the inner circle.
Side note - Seeing Namir as a unique model in the background cutscene with Zhao was nice. Something I didn't notice my first attempt.

Zhao - * -
Honestly, after 2 ridiculously difficult bosses, this one was a joke. Easily avoiding the rotating turrets, killing 2 "zombies", then quickly rushing in and de-syncing those pods (or whatever you had to do to them) Then just using a couple EMP grenades on bots as they came out while firing at Zhao. A really phase-intensive fight, but so simple, quick and EASY, it was really a joke. In fact I spent time on the last phase wondering if I had to shoot Zhao or I just had to keep destroying bots for the next phase, after just a few quick bursts to Zhao I found my answer.

To add a little something unrelated to boss-strategies, it was very satisfying killing the remaining members of Tyrant, after reading the novel. I felt that justice had somewhat been served for the two main characters (although it would've been even better if they had been there/done it themselves, and get the novel if you haven't read it, it's a good in-depth read)


__


*Moderator Updates*



Hey guys, new forum member here. I was reading through the boss fight guides, and honestly, a lot of them are just unnecessarily complicated.

Here is the easiest way to defeat the bosses (killed them without dying at all on Give me Deus Ex mode):

Barrett: Hump the pillars and get head shots with your combat rifle. He goes down amazingly fast when you pump his head full of lead. When he turns to the corner to come around to your pillar, sprint to the other side of the room and repeat. You can also just spam your rocket launcher and kill him that way too.

Federova: This fight is a joke. As soon as she charges at you in the beginning, dodge to the left and keep firing your rocket launcher at her. You effectively stun lock her and win easy. She never hit me once and I killed her in 10 seconds. Make sure you upgrade your rocket launcher with reload speed upgrades (honestly, you only need it for the rocket launcher)

Namir: Two words: Rocket Launcher. As soon as the fight begins, shoot him with a rocket. On Deus Ex mode, he recovers too fast to spam it. Once you stun him with the launcher, sprint up to him and do 2 Typhoons and he's toast. Easy fight. After the first Typhoon, immediately do the second one. He'll be too busy firing at you to move away from it. If your augs are disabled, just keep shooting him with the rocket launcher.

Zhao: Total joke. Grab some cover, and destroy the turrets as soon as they start rotating around. Ideally you want to destroy each turret before it turns to face you. Once done, disable the pods. Afterwards, run to the top platform. You'll notice there are walls separating each section of the room. Jump on top of the wall so that you're not touching the floor. Jump on a wall that'll allow you to face Zhao. The electricity won't even touch you, nor will the bots or zombies even notice you. Eventually, the glass will open and you can roast her. Otherwise, just shoot your laser rifle at her.

Hope this helps. The rocket launcher is your friend.


So we all know eidos outsourced the PC version. Well it turns out that they also outsourced the boss fights. Seems odd to me, but what do I know. Just watch the video.

Linky (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/09/18/eidos-montreal-outsourced-deus-ex-39-s-boss-battles.aspx)


"If you panic, you are going to die."

I think the boss fights were okay. They could have done with a lot more tweaking though. I would have liked to see some sort of strategy necessary to beat them.

1. Combat - You need to stun them first before you can hurt them (weapons or CQC) Explosives will re-position them (not stun them), so that you can't just keep hitting them with explosives while they stand in one spot.
2. Stealth - If you can sneak up behind the boss you get to use a certain number of CQC to take them down. Also, sneaking up on a boss means you don't need to stun them before you can hurt them.
3. Hacking - You can hack certain consoles to have robots/turrets help you. If you sneak up/stun them you can hack their brains to shut off certain of their augments/abilities. Keep hacking their brains eventually you shut them off completely.
4. Social - You can talk them down into weakness throughout the battle-- (or if you are really really good, get them to stand aside). Basically a terrible cyberpunk version of Hannibal Lector -- (would require you to hack/find their psych profile or other information on them) CASIE aug would help you during the battle

In fact, they could split the CASIE aug up into several different upgrades. Pheromones -- psych evals (generated throughout conversation, not all at once) -- emotional levels -- mental stability

CarpeNukemXVIII
28th Aug 2011, 04:32
Barret-Run around the room, toss gas barrels, followed by explosive barrels. Frag and EMP grenades work well too.

Yelena-Run around on the outer ring until she sees you, then make her follow you to one of the 4 nodes on the wall. Wait until she gets close enough to you and the node to do her melee attack, and then run away. Do this 4 times, and if she's not dead, a few more shots from any gun will finish her.

Namir-Go to the corners, and get in cover, watching your left and right. When you see Namir either walk around the corner, or jump over the wall, shoot him a few times, and then run to a different corner of the room and wait. Remember, if you go back to the LIMB clinic in China, this fight will be harder since you won't have your augs, and HUD would is messed up.

Zhao-Either hack the computers on the desk across from each of the 3 pods, or press the button next to the pods to open them, and open fire at the woman inside. Do this 3 times, and electricity will start to cover large sections of the room. Try and keep moving and find a safe spot to stand, like on top of the security desk. Eventually robots will come out, one by one, to take you out. Toss one EMP nade their way, and after you kill 3 of them the fight will end in a few seconds.

Once you stop and think, all the fights were quite easy. Also, the Typhoon makes fights really easy, since it takes 2-4 uses to kill each boss.

Ifandbut
28th Aug 2011, 07:28
The hardest boss for me was Barret mostly because I did not expect him to toss 3 grenades for every 1 I threw at him. In the end I shot 2 rockets at him and sprayed a bit of AR fire at him.

Fedorova was the easiest. I had the mini-gun and just stood and shot her. Half way through she cloaked and it took me a bit to find her (did not have vision upgraded). Once I found her a typhoon and a bit of AR finished her off.

Namir was the same as Fedorova only easier because I had the vision upgrade and could see his cloak.

Zhao was more confusing then anything. I spent half my AR ammo trying to kill the turrets. Then I got the pods open and did not know if I had to kill the girls or save them some how. I also spent a good 5 min standing around next to Zhao wondering if I shoot her or wait for the overload to happen.

The boss fights were underwhelming. The challenge was in the minion fights leading up to them. I was playing on normal (aka "Give me a challenge"), maybe hard will be harder.

Also, the boses them selves were not characterized as much as they should have been (with the exception of Zhao). If not for reading the book I would have just thought of the Tyrants as just random bad-asses. Hell, were they Tyrants ever referred to as such in the game? I remember hearing random soldiers shout out "TYRANTS!" but that was it.

Also, what did Namir mean after you kill him. About "people like us, we never get back the ones we love". Did I miss something in the book?

NKD
28th Aug 2011, 07:45
Boss 1-4:
Spam Typhoon

Daedatheus
28th Aug 2011, 07:48
Also, the boses them selves were not characterized as much as they should have been (with the exception of Zhao). If not for reading the book I would have just thought of the Tyrants as just random bad-asses. Hell, were they Tyrants ever referred to as such in the game? I remember hearing random soldiers shout out "TYRANTS!" but that was it.

This!! I haven't read the book (didn't want to spoil the game at all) and I thought they were just some really bad-ass mercenaries who were working with very powerful people, thus able to afford all their augs and thus part of their schemes.

Black-Xero
28th Aug 2011, 08:37
Boss 1-4:
Spam Typhoon

Thanks for the tip. I'll upgrade it once I start my hard playthrough.

KingLeonShepard
28th Aug 2011, 10:40
Anyone on here defeated Barrett on the hardest difficulty? If so, how did you do it?

I'm on the Barrett level now. I'm hoping my EMPs, frags and pre-order shotgun and will do the trick.

NKD
28th Aug 2011, 10:54
Anyone on here defeated Barrett on the hardest difficulty? If so, how did you do it?

I'm on the Barrett level now. I'm hoping my EMPs, frags and pre-order shotgun and will do the trick.

Spam Typhoon on him a couple of times. If you don't have it, then stun him with an EMP right away, then go around the room counter-clockwise starting with the explosive barrel to your right and throw every object in that place at him. Explosive barrels, fire extinguishers, gas canisters, whatever. He should be staggered almost the entire time if you're quick about grabbing items and throwing them at him.

Xessive
28th Aug 2011, 11:45
I had no idea Yelena could run into those electric terminals, I defeated her in a completely different and found her not challenging at all, she never even touched me once.

I had a stun gun and a 10mm pistol. Basically I stood still with the stun gun ready in hand. When she appears (uncloaks) I hit her with the stun gun, she takes a few secs to recover, in that time I land a few pistol head-shots until she recovers and cloaks again. Rinse and repeat until she goes down.

It was the easiest boss fight by far and I was expecting a hard one especially after Barrett!

Namir was definitely the hardest since I had no augs at all and the crosshairs were flickering all over the place.

Ifandbut
28th Aug 2011, 14:28
This!! I haven't read the book (didn't want to spoil the game at all) and I thought they were just some really bad-ass mercenaries who were working with very powerful people, thus able to afford all their augs and thus part of their schemes.

It was well worth reading the book before playing the game. It gave a lot of background on the world. It mostly took place in the time around the first attack on Sarif.

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 15:25
Boss 1-4:
Spam Typhoon

Same, anyone that hates the boss fights should do this. The worst one for me was Yelena. I had not used the Typhoon yet. But afterwards I upgraded it to full and prepared for the Namir fight. As soon as it started I triggered the Typhoon two times in a row and the fight was over. I was satisfied.

I guess this wouldn't work if you got the updated biochip since apparently the augs are turned off. After watching the news and seeing it was a TYM biochip there was no way in hell I was getting it.

Pete278
28th Aug 2011, 16:19
Same, anyone that hates the boss fights should do this. The worst one for me was Yelena. I had not used the Typhoon yet. But afterwards I upgraded it to full and prepared for the Namir fight. As soon as it started I triggered the Typhoon two times in a row and the fight was over. I was satisfied.

I guess this wouldn't work if you got the updated biochip since apparently the augs are turned off. After watching the news and seeing it was a TYM biochip there was no way in hell I was getting it.
I, on the other hand, saw the emails in TYM about the chip, and decided to tempt fate and see what the game would throw at me.

I was a bit disappointed I only had to do one boss fight without augs, I was expecting MGS4 Microwave tunnel.

MissStabby
29th Aug 2011, 21:36
Well is it just me or was Zhao the easiest bosfight by far?

"look at me, i'm protected by bullet and explosive proof transparant glass"

If playing Portal2 taught me anything, it would be that you can fire lasers through glass windows, so there i went:

"IMA FIRING MA LAZOR"

srsly, i could kill her without even purging one pod or lowering the shield! :lol:

Krelokk
29th Aug 2011, 21:47
Well is it just me or was Zhao the easiest bosfight by far?

"look at me, i'm protected by bullet and explosive proof transparant glass"

If playing Portal2 taught me anything, it would be that you can fire lasers through glass windows, so there i went:

"IMA FIRING MA LAZOR"

srsly, i could kill her without even purging one pod or lowering the shield! :lol:


HAHAH, I did the exact same thing on my first play through. I first tossed a random EMP from the starting cover and one of the pods closed. I didn't want to expose myself, but after seeing her just standing there I whipped out my laser and went to town. The fight was over in about 10 seconds, if even that. I laughed a little.

Sharkey1337
29th Aug 2011, 22:23
Barrett: Used 2 Typhoons and plenty of armor piercing 10mm shots, all the while constantly dodging like crazy from his gunfire and grenades (didn't know about the side rooms until after the fight).

Yelena: Hardest fight for me, used 2 Typhoons and LOTS of magnum shots to finally put her down, all the while running like a little girl with cloaking when she ran at me with her claymore attack (I typhooned her when I could the first 2 times to stop her getting a hit on me). Definitely took me a while to figure out that no matter where I stood or did, shooting the electical hubs was bad mojo for me. If you have EMP shielding, does it really prevent you from getting shocked? Thought it was protection from EMP grenades only...?

Jaron: Easiest boss fight in the game for me as I picked up the grenade launcher from my Gamestop DLC pack. Shot 4-5 times at beginning of fight, defeated within 5 seconds. Was really looking forward to an epic fight with the guy, be he never stood a chance with that 'nade launcher. =P

Zhao: Again, the grenade launcher made it too easy for this one. One-shotted the 3 turrets, hacked the terminal with an unlocking device, then blasted away at the glass shield. Had to hop up on a ledge to avoid the electrical floors, but easy as pie.

I think on my next run through on I'll be avoiding the grenade launcher as it's basically a "WIN" button. =P

Graill
29th Aug 2011, 23:24
Hardest setting strats. (several deaths before figuring these out)

Barrett: Move to left room from start, toss concussion nade, move all the way straight up and then to right most room, toss red barrel at Barrett (still looking for you down at other room, make sure you hit him squarely) toss, it dazes him, grab two poison gas bottles, toss, one right after the other, Barret dead in 30 seconds, do happy dance.

Mantis
Use the anti zap aug for this to work, otherwise your doing the nade mine toss strat some have pointed out, personally i dont carry any nades or mines except for a frag or two. take your heavy rifle, what?! you dont have a heavy rifle? Get one. Anyway take the heavy and equip it, stand by the power station, watch for her or for the computer to warn you and destroy the powerstation, she gets fried, you unload on her while she is cooking, repeat for the last two stations, by the last station she will drop, besides, watching her cook is great. you can also do this with the stun gun and any other high damage wep to blow the stations, time your stun just before she goes to light you up. Note, this is the only hard boss fight in the whole game, regardless of difficulty.

Zhoa's attack dog. Talion.
(hope you didnt get that new biochip lol, her reaction is priceless)
Simply take your plasma rifle or laser rifle, you should have plenty of ammo and a damage upgrade or two if you explored at all, for those that didnt, your suckin. Go to a corner, have laser rifle equipped, he approaches and tosses two nades and mixes a plasma shot or two in his attacks, Note there is a plasma rifle on the ground on the straighaway in the far corner away from your initial attack. Anyway have the laser rifle up and ready, he appears, you lay into him for a couple seconds of burning red light, and then sprint out to the next corner, note, i was damaged a few times, but simply kep to the corners till full health and then repeated the laser burn. I went around almost two full times and he finally dropped, i tried the plasma rifle but i ran out of green goo., note, this is NOT the pedds wep.

Last fight.
Primary weps, laser and plasma. kill the three turrets or put them offline using hacking, kill the bots as they come out after you reset the safety purge switch, the AI is stupid in this game and the bots do not pursue after losing los, kill the three crazies as they come out (4 waves), then go smoke zhoa, i took little damage. Rooms the crazies come out of have ammo. Having the anti zap aug makes the fight easy, for a more sadistic challenge, use regular weps and no anti zap aug.

implode Panchea, Kill yourself, take everyone with you, enjoy, game over.

Nokturnalex
30th Aug 2011, 00:23
Wait so there were bots and you had to kill the clones in the Zhao fight?

When i did it all I did was kill 2 turrets then i shot Zhao with my lazer for like 2 seconds and the fight was over.

I was totally confused at first, i was like wtf is the point of these buttons? Oh well lazer h4x.

(Hardest difficulty btw, but i'm pretty sure that all difficulty changes is how much dmg you take. Cause everyone was still dying to 1 shot to the head on the hardest difficulty)

But all and all, the boss fights were very underwhelming, took little to no strategy each time I killed them. You could actually use the "Tag" aug to always know where the 2 stealth bosses were, for playing it on the hardest difficulty the boss fights were a joke. The most interesting fights in the game to me were when the guys raided the penthouse (As soon as they entered, I ran up, flashbanged them all, then knocked every single one of em out in melee combat before they could recover) and the save Malik fight. (same thing, except a lot more running around, and 1 EMP grenade for the bot)

NavalFC
30th Aug 2011, 02:01
Actually Jaron Namir is the easiest boss fight in the game. What you need is the strength augment levelled to be able to carry turrets, and good hacking skills. In the singapore facility there is a turrent in the middle of the road, and behind it it's computer. Hack the computer and set the turret to shoot enemies, and carry it into the elevator with you when you go into the inner sanctum. You can even drop the turret near enemies to have them kill them for you. Anyway, you can drag the turret all the way into the boss room. Put the turret in a good spot, and as soon as he decloaks in front of it it will mow him down in seconds.

depresso
30th Aug 2011, 02:55
Barret - run in a zap him with stun gun. wash/rinse/repeat
Yelena - when she decloaks, zap her with stun gun, wash/rinse/repeat

not upto the last boss yet, but i'm assume it'd be the same :P
not that hard really so far.

Ragequit
30th Aug 2011, 03:39
For the last boss you can disable the turrets through a code found in-game, you don't even need to hack them or de-activate them individually

Sponge
30th Aug 2011, 04:03
I, on the other hand, saw the emails in TYM about the chip, and decided to tempt fate and see what the game would throw at me.

Yep same here. Made that boss fight very frustrating for me (not to mention giving me a headache with all the flickering colours). Eventually I had to lower the difficulty to easy to get him, and even then it took me a few tries. I didn't have any heavy firepower weapons either, and very few grenades. I did notice that you could see his outline through the middle translucent barrier, even when he was cloaked, so I'd let him jump over the middle barrier, zot him with the stun gun and take a few shots at him with the combat rifle, then run around to the other side of the barrier, over and over... annoying as hell and uninteresting. The only bad part of the game for me. In fact the game could have done without the 3 mini boss fights entirely (or given some way to get around them, like the kill phrases in DX1), and the final "boss" was a little anti-climactic.

sugaki
30th Aug 2011, 08:55
Not a pro by any means, but the boss fights didn't seem that hard. The first two bosses I had absolutely no armor protection, mainly invested in hacking augs. To go over some strats I haven't seen:

Barret Lawrence:
I killed this guy mainly using my combat rifle. Was pretty easy, the key for me was to pillar-hump =P When you're low on health, just keep hugging the pillar, going around the sides by holding down the spacebar. Even if he throws a grenade it'll bounce off the pillar and blow up in front of him. Drill his head with lead.

Yelena Fedorova:
I haven't seen anybody post this, but when she's going in for a charging attack, I sprint *towards* her =P Well sprint towards her and slightly to the left or right. She passes right by me, does her EMP attack that misses. I turn around and blast her with my heavy rifle. I found the heavy rifle to be really effective on boss fights overall.

Jaron Namir:
This guy was a joke. Actually, I kinda exploited his AI. Put your back against a corner, wait for him to pop up. The best thing to do is have him firing his plasma rifle from the opposite end of the corridor. For some reason, he just kept firing (plasma rifle's not very accurate from afar), while my heavy rifle was drilling into his head. He died pretty quick that way.

Zhao:
Take out turrets, hacked terminals using nukes. EMP grenade the robots. At first I didn't know to shoot the glass. Then I took out my trusty heavy rifle again to blast the glass and kill her.

I found it ironic that I used the heavy rifle the most for the boss fights, because during the game I was all non-lethal stealth. Then come the boss battles and I pick just about the most unstealth weapon you can get, hah. Tells you something about these boss battles...

Tuttle
30th Aug 2011, 09:03
Barret: Stun gun to paralyze him, throw explosives at his feet (The remote kind or regular. Whatever you can get really)

Yelena: Stun Gun to paralyze him, throw explosives at his feet (The remove kind or regular)

Jaron: Stun Gun at the start because you can, explosives in the middle of the side corridors and "lure" him into the explosives till he dies.

Zhao: You know those auto-hack things? Yeah. Then duck out of cover and shoot the tranquilizer gun and shoot those white things twice.

Isilwen Nightfall
30th Aug 2011, 09:07
Barrett: just take cover, throw a concussion grenade and then some proximity mines in front of him. He walks to you, BOOM. He walks again, BOOM. Again, BOOM. Dead.

zorphon
31st Aug 2011, 05:17
This doesn't count those 2 'things' in the Hangar. (Trying to avoid spoilers).

Anyways, I can't beat this 2nd boss. The one you fight in the circular arena (again, trying to avoid spoilers). The boss is just too fast and too powerful and I can't beat it no matter what I do. This is like my 16th time doing it, any tips?

Frag Maniac
31st Aug 2011, 06:18
Lawrence Barrett is the first boss, Yelena Fedorova the second. She's the one with cloak capability that draws electrical energy off the tall panels of the battle area to recharge. If you have about 4 Praxis to spend, just get the skin aug that shields you from EMP and electrical attacks. She can also be taken down with two Typhoon attacks if you can't manage with standard weapons.

Don't know why you even mentioned the big bots in the hangar, they're not even close to being bosses. I snuck up the stairs into the control room and switched them to enemy status and they had a little "boss" fight with each other while I stood on the landing pad as an entertained spectator. Funny thing is, the one that started shooting first lost. LOL

Lv4
31st Aug 2011, 10:59
My way:

I used mines. Use one right in front of you and run away. When she's stunned, you can just shoot her or throw other mines/grenades. It will take five of them if I remember correctly.
You kill her in about five seconds like that.

Enraged Penguin
31st Aug 2011, 11:11
My way:

I used mines. Use one right in front of you and run away. When she's stunned, you can just shoot her or throw other mines/grenades. It will take five of them if I remember correctly.
You kill her in about five seconds like that.That's how I beat her on Give Me Deus Ex. It was still a bloody hard fight mind you. I would get her to run into a mine and then spray into her head with the Combat Rifle, then run away as fast as possible lol.


But yeah the EMP Shielding aug is an absolute life saver here. I used that on my second playthrough and the damage from her claymore was significantly reduced.

simonpm
31st Aug 2011, 11:21
Boss is a piece of cake. Didn't even have to move once on "Give Me Deus Ex" difficulty. Just stood where I was.

* Activate X-ray vision augmentation.
* 2 fully upgraded typhoon attacks when you see her approach
* Finish her off with weapon of your choice ... Revolver or Shotgun are decent if you have them

20 second fight .... at the most.

7h30n
31st Aug 2011, 11:22
I used the same 'trick' like on the first boss:

Stun with stun gun, change to upgraded shotgun, fire my whole 12 rounds magazine while stunned. Repeat till shotgun empty, use pistol/revolver instead of shotgun. Repeat till boss dead. That is on Give me Deus Ex

Kaylord
31st Aug 2011, 11:25
I did it the "classic" way: When she charges, turn 90 degrees and run some meters to be out of her typhon range. She will be standing still for some moments, that is when you do most of your damage. After three charges, she goes into stealth, but you can see her footsteps in the water. Follow her quickly, but not too close and try to hit her. If she gets a few hits like this, she will unstealth and fire her machine gun at you. This can be deadlier than her typhoon when you are not near some cover to move behind.

Key is the turn away and run trick. Once you have that timing, it is easy. If you want it faster, you practice following her footsteps in the water. She is cake after that. I played on "Give me Deus Ex" and needed about 20 tries to get the practice.

Enraged Penguin
31st Aug 2011, 11:25
Boss is a piece of cake. Didn't even have to move once on "Give Me Deus Ex" difficulty. Just stood where I was.

* Activate X-ray vision augmentation.
* 2 fully upgraded typhoon attacks when you see her approach
* Finish her off with weapon of your choice ... Revolver or Shotgun are decent if you have them

20 second fight .... at the most.You can't see her with the X-ray vision when she's cloaked.

hashi
31st Aug 2011, 11:26
absolutely incredible how gay this is. the game is fine up until this point, but having to quick switch items in the inventory is unbelievably gay. this boss is really annoying and lame. absolute crap

wasn't there a cheats thread?

WarBaby2
31st Aug 2011, 11:42
You can't see her with the X-ray vision when she's cloaked.

Nope, you can mark her with the target tracker, however.

Kaylord
31st Aug 2011, 13:28
Nope, you can mark her with the target tracker, however.

WTF, is that really true? Should be a bug or design oversight, then.

Enraged Penguin
31st Aug 2011, 13:43
Nope, you can mark her with the target tracker, however.Haha nice.

Foxpass
31st Aug 2011, 21:23
Throw EMP grenades and shoot her with whatever. This fight just hinges on whether you picked up the EMP immunity. That aug trivializes a number of situations that would otherwise be difficult.

Hitman470
31st Aug 2011, 21:36
This doesn't count those 2 'things' in the Hangar. (Trying to avoid spoilers).

Anyways, I can't beat this 2nd boss. The one you fight in the circular arena (again, trying to avoid spoilers). The boss is just too fast and too powerful and I can't beat it no matter what I do. This is like my 16th time doing it, any tips?

The first time I found Fedorova I spent an hour before killing her, because I was playing ultra-stealth so I had only stun-gun and pistol and I did't have typhoon nor emp protection :)
However if you have shotgun for example it is really easy even if playing at "give me deus ex".

Cronstintein
31st Aug 2011, 22:04
x-ray vision showed her for me (pc), but if you lose her behind an energized wall I think she can shake you somehow.

needlesurfer
31st Aug 2011, 22:14
I restarted from an older save and upgraded to typhoon level two. Since I chose stealth upgrade all the way I was unable to kill her as well, some succeeded, gratz but I couldn't.

Once you have the typhoon level2 you just have to sidestep or sprint jump over her at the very beginning of the fight, turn around and use your taser on her, she will be stunned for a long time, use the typhoon, tase her again even if she is still under the effect of the first one and typhoon again, dead.

balanced
31st Aug 2011, 22:55
Shoot out the electrical generators.

Augmented Paul
31st Aug 2011, 23:51
Hey there, I felt that the first 3 bosses were the most difficult part of the game, they were frustrating at first. The best way I found to beat them was to use the stun gun on them and then shoot them in the face with the shotgun. :whistle:

take it easy my friend

Doom972
1st Sep 2011, 00:01
Just before you enter the room where you fight her, you walk past a storage room with a heavy rifle and lots of ammo for it - HINT.

Just stand near a conduit. When Cassan says "She's coming for you Adam", run away from her. she'll attack the conduit and get temporarily zapped. At this point either shoot her with the heavy rifle from up-close or use the Typhoon if you have it. Repeat until victory (should take 2-3 times on "Give me Deus Ex").

hazard001
1st Sep 2011, 01:25
I just beat her. I really enjoy augmented jumping over her when she charges :)

JMESUn
1st Sep 2011, 14:12
hey all having trouble.. on deus ex mode fighting chick.. (on 360)... my current saves put me at the fight with her charging me as soon as it loads... my augs are whats kicking my ass.. i am max out in Stealth and one battery aug away from max.. i did wall punching and heavy lifting.. and i deck out capture hacking cameras and turrnets.. i dont have the feet aug or typhhon.. so lets starts i fight this chick stuns and what not.. but about the second emp grenade/mine the floor explodes and kills me.. i can get away sometimes and make it to the other side but with 30hp...

any tips of advice on what they did.. im doing this late at night after work and school... im tired when doinig it but dang it i really enjoy this.. and would like any help .. thanks in advance

Jason Parker
1st Sep 2011, 14:18
Stun her in return. If you got no EMP nades yourselve destroy those wallpanels she draws energy from that will stunn her aswell and then shoot your best weapon at her (most likely the rocket launcher or the heavy rifle if you packed those along.

DanB2644
1st Sep 2011, 14:52
http://www.goozernation.com/video-games/index.php/news/961-how-to-defeat-eliza-cassan-in-deus-ex-human-revolution

lockload
1st Sep 2011, 20:03
Im exactly the same loving the game doing total stealth no kills and then we get the stupid boss battles where i have no choice but go all out guns

This is what i wrote on another forum i go to (cranky gamers)


Second boss = aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

God dam i love this game but a boss fight whetre you have to do combat when ive done none (apart from the 1st boss) the whole game sucks bad

Turning it off tonight before i break my controller

Im am certainly cranky right now :-)

Frag Maniac
1st Sep 2011, 20:28
Destroying those panels she recharges with also creates more electric hazard on the ground, being as it's completely flooded with water in the whole battle area. Eliza even warns you of this. IMO they really should have made your options more versatile there. For instance what if you could at least destroy a central pillar, have it collapse, then jump onto it to get out of the water. Even if it were difficult to jump onto and stay on, at least it would be SOMETHING to keep you from having to use the EMP/Electrical resistance aug.

The only other option is to try and stay as far away as possible when she's recharging, but go in close and heavy when she's not. It's a bit of a lesson learned though. Even my first play through I always had a good variety of gear and augs to get me through just in case. By the time I got to that boss my first play through I had a variety of gear and at least four Praxis to spend, which is enough to get you the EMP immunity aug. I ended up using the Typhoon upgrade instead though, as I misread the electrical aug thinking it meant for EMPs only.

Mobius32
1st Sep 2011, 20:32
dodge, shoot, her while she recovers, cloak, get behind her and unload. If you're cloaked and shooting from behind, she doesn't even register that she's getting shot. Nades are useful too, if you have them.

JCpies
1st Sep 2011, 20:40
EMP worked on her in the novel. :)

I personally just used the typhoon twice, kind of cheap but hey.

lockload
1st Sep 2011, 23:36
Well tried again but as im stealth and dont have armour, tryphoon, emp resistsance etc etc

Ive got a heavy rifle and a few mines and no spare praxis points

Cant be bothered going back to this game at present which is a shame as i was absolutely loving it before this battle

Have the devs actually explained why they did this dumb design choice?

JMESUn
2nd Sep 2011, 00:00
thanks all for feed back.. yeah i willl try here after awhile.. dont get me wrong i like the idea of everything effecting certain things.. but when i read they said there was no one way to do something.. and now i find myself stuck because of the choices i made.. well least i killed all them terds that wanted 1000 creds or 5000 creds.. some street justice lol


seems like my main prob is when im doing good and doing good damage to her.. then all of a sudden the floor lites up.. i hit the ground and that piece of snatch is running around kicking me.. (well ill keep all posted)

and boy do i wish i had the rocket launcher.. i maxxed out my 10mil silent big clip.. spoiler-- i gave my deckedout combat rifle to that one guy..
( oh the choices we make)

EtherCore
2nd Sep 2011, 00:13
Do you have invisibility?

ranmafan
2nd Sep 2011, 02:14
Basically - when she sees you, she'll charge.

If you use invisibility to sidestep her while she's charging, you can get a free shot off at her back when she hits a wall.

I also came prepared with EMP grenades and mines (and you can find a few in the wall lockers around the room if you can find some breathing space) - you can toss one to further incapacitate her, then fill her with lead. There're lockers with heavy weapons in this room, if you need them.

What I did was:
1) At the start of the fight, cloak and dodge into the side alley.
2) Throw EMP grenade, uncloak.
3) Shoot her with crossbow.
4) Throw EMP mines at both entrances of the alley (the outer circle of corridors)
5) Prepare gas grenades and crossbow
6) Once she runs over an EMP mine (and she will), shoot her, throw gas grenade, crossbow, gas, crossbow, repeat as necessary.

Ragequit
2nd Sep 2011, 03:09
bump because people are still having trouble with bosses

Cadastra
2nd Sep 2011, 03:52
I took ages at this as well as I didn't have the EMP aug - finally did it by just stunning her over and over ie. stun her straight away then just stand next to her and stun her again before she recovers - takes 14 stun charges though.

MovezLikeJenson
2nd Sep 2011, 04:14
The bosses can actually be extremely easy even on hard and especially when going on a stealth playthrough.

You will need 1 EMP and 4-5 Frag mines depending on your aim. As soon as the boss round starts use your EMP to stun, then quickly select frag mines (the game even pauses while you do so it gives you plenty of time) then spam from a slight distance with the frag mines. It is highly effective and each boss takes less than 10seconds.

Frag Maniac
2nd Sep 2011, 04:48
...boy do i wish i had the rocket launcher.. The grenade launcher Tong gives you for saving his son is much more space efficient, but unfortunately comes later in the game. I took the rocket launcher I got in Derelict Row to the Barrett boss fight this time through but never used it. I still took him out with a mere combat rifle. Don't know why so many say he's so hard to beat.

ufo8mycat
2nd Sep 2011, 05:08
The grenade launcher Tong gives you for saving his son is much more space efficient, but unfortunately comes later in the game. I took the rocket launcher I got in Derelict Row to the Barrett boss fight this time through but never used it. I still took him out with a mere combat rifle. Don't know why so many say he's so hard to beat.

Yeah he's definitely not that difficult at all, even on GIve ME Deus Ex. Theres a simple pattern involved. WHen he fires take cover, then he stops, start shooting (throw fire extinguishers at him to blind him, then fire).

I think people are being too impatient with him, trying to outfire him and not using cover when needed *shrugs*

grl798
2nd Sep 2011, 06:03
Does anyone else have a problem with this? Specifically the Hyron Project. Specifically THOSE 3 GIRLS?

I mean, I really don't get it. The entire game has you able to make the moral choice of not killing anyone, as in letting the scumbag beltower workers live, and even lets you save numerous people.

i.e.

The hostages

Malik

Sandoval

So why would they have you in the end KILL those poor women hooked up to the Hyron machine? Even if you don't personally shoot them I know they still die. There isn't even an option to help them.

I don't know. Personally I really like the game, it is just that part kind of upsets me.

lockload
2nd Sep 2011, 07:33
Lots of approaches that i should be able to do, fingers crossed!

sojurn
2nd Sep 2011, 07:55
I personally did not enjoy that last boss fight. Having said that, I can see how from a story perspective that you are sort of powerless to save them. This isn't anything like saving Sandoval/Malik/hostages.

They weren't kidnapped and strapped to some infernal machine.

I just felt that the whole Hyron core was out of place in what otherwise was a well-told story.

~Psychotic~
2nd Sep 2011, 09:12
The first thing I said when I saw the Core was "what the ****?" because really, what the ****?

Prior to seeing it I kept thinking about what it could be. Trying to think about how bad it could possibly be to make Hugh Darrow do what he did and say that you, the player, would understand his reasoning when you see what's down there but when I finally saw it I just had more questions.

Like, "What the hell does this have to do with anything?" The implications of the machine, the sheer disgust I felt when seeing how it was run was evident, this was obvious, but I didn't see why the hell Darrow would actually need it.

After thinking about it a bit more, you have to remember Darrow was having what would be considered as "second thoughts" over the whole augmentation thing.

Hyron would've be perfect for the Illuminati (though it's honestly more like MJ12 at this point) as it would allow control over mechanically augmented people who got the biochip upgrade distributed by TYM. Zhao wanted to control these people, hence why she plugged herself in.

Consider it Human Revolution's equivalent to Bob Page and the Aquinas Hub in the original Deus Ex, but instead of connecting to the host of the entire world's networks (which is what Aquinas/Helios effectively was) Zhao was connecting to the biochips of augmented people, effectively being in control of them.

The Hyron Project alone doesn't make up the bulk of the games storyline, in my opinion, it's just one of many parts that link Human Revolution and the original Deus Ex together. The genetic framework that Reed finds in Jensen is more of the deal-breaker for me than anything else, and the moment you hear about the killswitch I was like "Oh. Snap.".

JMESUn
2nd Sep 2011, 13:46
good news all.. i did it.. ok so here is what i did.... ok in the middle the three wall panels that are near each other i basiclly hug them corners and and waited for her to charge 3 time. after that i would chase her shooting the heavy rifle at her until i realized i was losing to much time on target with its (warm up) so i got the good ole shooty.. i did this for about 30min no lie.. she was still tuff for me with no armor(upgrade) and here typhoon attack basiclly take you below half.healt . but i would stealth and recharge that.. so like i said wasnt fun or anythinhg felt kinda weak.. but if you are ahveing prob with floor liting you up i suggest this becuase the power coolant holders do not come inot play the way i did it.. well peace finally can go help this cop dude out now

lockload
2nd Sep 2011, 14:29
I did it aswell used the stun gun then mines at her feet, stun gun then mines at her feet, rinse and repeat..

Took about 1 min, glad i didnt have to upgrade armour, typhoon etc for a stupid boss fight

deusexhr
2nd Sep 2011, 14:33
I luckily had spare praxis points as i found the EMP immunity was a must for this boss.

Ragequit
2nd Sep 2011, 16:23
I actually did fedorova on normal without any combat augs, I put all my points in hacking, and one in inventory. What I ended up doing was using lots of claymores/grenades and a heavy rifle/pistol. Clever placement of claymores and you'll win the fight no prob

Frag Maniac
2nd Sep 2011, 20:41
Honestly some make too big a deal out of these bosses. My 2nd run through I handled Barrett pretty much the same as I did on Easy. I only played Easy first to get more replay, learn the layout, and find out what gear, upgrades and augs I want to use. With only 3 difficulty modes, there's not much replay if you only use 2 of them. On Normal he wasn't much harder to take down using just the combat rifle like I did before. Only difference was this time I shot the barrel near him before taking cover behind the concrete barricade you start out by. I just move around the barricade as he approaches. It protects you from his fire and explosives. When he circles around as you move to the other side of the barricade he goes near the fire extinguisher, which I shoot. It blinds him long enough to finish him off with the CR.

Fedorova I handled much differently than on Easy, where I used two Typhoons because I misread the EMP aug thinking it didn't protect from electrical hazzards in general. On Normal I still didn't use the EMP aug, but this time I attacked her immediately with the combat rifle after stunning her with a frag mine. I switched to the semi-auto shotgun before reloading the CR and placed another frag mine, which she missed. I switched back to the CR, reloaded, and after some more rounds with it she ran back to the same spot to recharge but ran right into my mine and was then dead. So it took 69 CR rounds, 4 Widowmaker rounds, and 2 frag mines. At first I thought I may have gotten lucky that she happened to run into that 2nd mine, but it was only because I kept on her that she ran back to that spot to recharge, vs going somewhere else. It was all over pretty quick really.

I've yet to take on the other two bosses on this run through, but I plan to take out the 3rd some other way than using the grenade launcher Tong gives you like I did before. The final boss I used mostly the plasma rifle the first run, don't know what I'll use this time. Too bad it takes a long ways into the game to get the plasma rifle, it's one of the cooler weapons in the game.

ajd155
3rd Sep 2011, 00:12
Having a hard time playing for more than 20 minutes at a time. (Due to stuttering that induces nausea.)

Finally made it to the first boss last night. Had a stun gun and the tranq rifle. He pinned me behind a column, so I zapped him with the stun gun once, so I could run and find weapons.

I'm creeping around trying to get the right guns while he is trying to find me, and suddenly... I've won! HE KILLED HIMSELF! Are you serious? I'm playing on Hard mode (Give me Deus Ex), and I zapped him once... and he 'naded himself for the entire rest of his life.

Honestly the first boss fight ever for me that I had to do literally nothing but hide for 1 minute and then I win. Kinda disappointed...

Frag Maniac
3rd Sep 2011, 00:28
Yeah the AI aren't exactly lights that "have burned so very, very brightly"..., despite the game clearly trying to look a bit like Blade Runner.

Zksf9T7fyp0?t=3m40s

That may not be a common occurrence with Barrett, but it's a sure sign the AI scripting is rather weak.

Knightshade
3rd Sep 2011, 00:58
During my first run, which was pretty much gun-heavy:

Barret: Fired a rocket to his face. This stunned him so I could get to the immediate cover in front of me. After he recovered from the stun, he stood on the spot and fired a clip from his gatling (Whereas, normally from start, he walks towards me as he fires). Once his clip drained, I poked out of cover and hit him with near to a clip of combat rifle to the head.

Federova: Used typhoon as she charged to me at the start of the fight. She turned her back to me (seemed to be stunned). I then drained about a third of a clip of Heavy Rifle into her, then as she turned back to attack, I used a second typhoon.

Jarod: I had my DLC grenade launcher (I had no augs for the obvious reason), and I simply kept running circles around the full perimeter of the area. I would look over every time I ran past an opening to the centre and every other time, Jarod would be there. I fired one grenade every time I saw him, and he took about 4-5 (maybe I missed once? I'm not sure)

Hyron:

1: Easiest way is to just Laser Rifle Zhao through the glass from the very beginning.

2: Hack the terminals to overide the three Hyron pods. (I haven't done this without shooting down the turrets first, where then I don't think you need to hack - hence, it's safe to run down and operate the switches by each Hyron to reveal them like that). After destroying all three turrets, a few Crazies emerge and run towards you, and I think a few more get released after you take out a couple of Hyrons? I can't remember 'when' exactly. By now, parts of the area become electrically charged so it's ideal to have the aug that nullifies EMP damage. Also, when you have all Hyrons killed, a small sentry bot emerges. Eventually, the glass around Zhao breaks, leaving her vulnerable. Her health is low, so any gun does the job - not that there's any threats to stop you now.

cartridge
3rd Sep 2011, 01:03
If you explore the area just before the fight with Barrett, you will find a rocket launcher and rockets. I just threw an EMP grenade, hit him with 3 rockets, and finished him off with a sniper round to the head, all without even leaving the initial cover. At the time I didn't know about the exploding barrel strategy. Good stuff guys.

Ronin
3rd Sep 2011, 12:47
The Bossfights are tough, until you know what to do. Because explosions totally killed the AI. Federova was a joke with the Revolver and the explosive rounds upgrade and Namir is easily killed with the grenade launcher. Simply put shots into him as soon as the fight starts.
Barret, at least, was a challenge on the hardest setting as I didn't have all the firepower you get later on and I did have to work with the barrels.

7h30n
3rd Sep 2011, 13:01
I did the following in my playthrough on Give me Deus Ex

Barret: Run up to him and stun him to paralyse him. Keep on stunning with stun gun till he drops dead (about 21 stun darts and 1 shot from any other weapon)

Yelena: Stun her to paralyse, shoot from your favourite weapon while paralysed (shotgun in my case). When stun goes away evade her typhon attack and repeat the process.

Jaron: Using Jump augment stand near a wall and jump over it when he tosses granades at you. He will jump after you where you can proceed the Yelena tactic - stun & shoot (either typhoon or weapon). After stun is complete jump over the wall because he will throw granades or smth again. By far the easiest real boss fight.

Zhao: Threw EMP at bots, turrets don't even see you when next to the wall near Zhao. Zombies "die" through electricity. So just from the wall I kept on shooting peps and tranq darts. Easy peasy.

Frag Maniac
3rd Sep 2011, 18:37
Does anyone ever bother to take cover when fighting Barrett? When you do, he's easy. That concrete barricade you start out by is far more significant than the barrels, and I've yet to see anyone mention they've used it.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 10:40
Yes, the boss battles are mandatory. Yes, they penalize stealth players and hackers. Yes, hackers and stealth players had it coming.


Why?



Maybe you havent noticed, but you're not creating a character from scratch. You play as a chief of security in a billion dollar corporation. He carries around an assault rifle while on duty. Why would you think you can hack your way through the whole game? He has that fancy arm blades installed for a reason. The developer even gives you plenty of weapons and explosives in the pre-order - TO GET YOU READY.[b]


The game relies on four gameplay pillars: stealth, combat, social and hacking. [b]Not two. Not three. Four.

Therefore, you need to take into account, that there will be at least SOME fighting involved, like, say, in Metal Gear Series. Tactical, espionage, action - remember? What? You thought you could talk your way through, as u did with Zeke? Welcome to the real life, some people cant be negotiated with.


Ok, so you're in the scenario "Oh no I'm a hacker! How can I defeat the third boss! It's impossible!" Well, let me tell you three things:

1. You fought 2 bosses already and either you're plain stupid or you just forgot to equip yourself for future 'surprises'.
2. Stealth and hacker players gain MUCH MOAR XP than combat-fancy ones. So you can spend your precious additional points on augs that will help you survive.
3. All the bosses can be defeated without[b] having a regular weapon. I saw people throwing barrels at the 1st boss. I saw people beating up the second. You just analyze the environment and get creative. All can be done. Plus, there are always weapons scattered around.



I'm wondering - why I'm not hearing direct approach players moaning about them receiving less XP than stealthy ones? That is favorizing stealth players! I cant afford newest dermal implant because of that!


[b]Let's state it clear:

The game is balanced. You can hack and snoop through all your playthrough, be given more experience points for behaving as such, but then you will have to face the consequence of your choosing and experience the boss battles in a meaner way. Alternatively, you can go guns blazing through all your playthrough, be given less points, but more weapons and ammo - as a consequence of such you will have better time killing bosses.


To cite the Merovingian classic: "Action, reaction. Cause and effect."





PS. A real life comparison - when a weak hacker is caught in the dark alley with thugs - can he "hack" his way through? I'd rather doubt that. When a combat specialist is caught in the dark alley - can he bust all the attackers? Probably yes. But can he hack a computer from one of them? Probably not.

jtr7
4th Sep 2011, 10:52
Why is this not worthy of complaining, again? You pretty much described a lot of the reasons for the complaining.

Yeah, I get the ex-SWAT character and odd choice of built-in brutality, but a lot of players never asked for this.

Lebowski2000
4th Sep 2011, 11:03
Boss fights? You call it boss fights lol. They are just too easy to be called "bosses".

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 11:04
I don't hate the boss battles with passion, but Deus Ex is about choice. Even if the original game didn't recognise it all of the time, you could run or sneak past bosses or have alternate means of killing based on the information you discovered through social or hacking.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 11:13
I don't hate the boss battles with passion, but Deus Ex is about choice. Even if the original game didn't recognise it all of the time, you could run or sneak past bosses or have alternate means of killing based on the information you discovered through social or hacking.

yea, you got the point, but i Think that the games was constructed in a way this would seem hardly possible.


My whole point is that the game is about fighting as well and sometimes you're forced to do something. In DX1 you could skip some of the boss battles by running away but the bosses themselves would still vanish from the story. This doesnt make much sense.


So ok, say you can run away from Barrett and the game accounts for that. He then wont just vanish and still be in the Belltower's commando group after some time. So he still will oppose a threat. You dont kill barrett the first time, but later you will have to fight him and fedorova at the same time. Or worse, him and namir. What about that?

Doom972
4th Sep 2011, 11:14
I agree with the OP. In proper rolepaying you should always have something extra in case your set of skills won't be adequate.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 11:19
So ok, say you can run away from Barrett and the game accounts for that. He then wont just vanish and still be in the Belltower's commando group after some time. So he still will oppose a threat.

Yeah, that's my argument against going non-lethal against the bosses. To be honest, I'm not saying that you should be able to knock them out, just that it should offer different means of killing them or advancing the story.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 11:20
yea, you got the point, but i Think that the games was constructed in a way this would seem hardly possible.


My whole point is that the game is about fighting as well and sometimes you're forced to do something. In DX1 you could skip some of the boss battles by running away but the bosses themselves would still vanish from the story. This doesnt make much sense.


So ok, say you can run away from Barrett and the game accounts for that. He then wont just vanish and still be in the Belltower's commando group after some time. So he still will oppose a threat. You dont kill barrett the first time, but later you will have to fight him and fedorova at the same time. Or worse, him and namir. What about that?

Than later + the muscle guy, lol

same with DX1

sure u can sneak by anna, but soon our science pal want us to kill her. Since we can't KO here anyway.

Gunther will hunt u down country to country till u kill him

Simon, well forgot why u had to kill him, lol
was the place lock?

Maggie? she just needs to shut up...
even if u can spare her, bet the explosions will kill her. :D

Bob? can't kill him even if u want to. He's stuck in that bubble. :D





But i agree, should have different approaches to "kill" the boss.
like throwing barrels at them. :D

the girl dun have anything like that. but with all that water, one might think u can electrocute her. :D

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 11:30
My whole point is that the game is about fighting as well and sometimes you're forced to do something.

Your whole point is the quintessential reason the boss battles in this game suck. In Deus Ex, you are never 'forced' to do something beyond 'accomplish your objective somehow'. And if you are being forced, then it's doing Deus Ex wrong.

These boss fight make it impossible to do an entirely non-lethal run. They punish players who prefer a particular playstyle (Which the rest of the game actively encourages), so they are poorly balanced. You don't even have a run and hide option, or the chance to kill them prematurely a-la Lebedev's jet. They're just uninspired, tedious, and stand in stark contrast to everything else in the game, which is superb.

By the standards of any other game, they'd merely be mediocre. By the standards of this, they're a travesty. Can you imagine a game like Civilization pulling that? "Well, we know you're focusing on your economy and diplomacy, but now you're twenty years into the game time, you are going to be forced to go to war with France, which can only end when one of you is destroyed". It's very complaint worthy.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 11:31
the girl dun have anything like that. but with all that water, one might think u can electrocute her. :D

You can, I think Namir was the only boss that didn't have non-weapon resources to help you kill him.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 11:40
These boss fight make it impossible to do an entirely non-lethal run. They punish players who prefer a particular playstyle (Which the rest of the game actively encourages), so they are poorly balanced. You don't even have a run and hide option
How do u suggest we "not kill them"?
4 times. Because we'll be heading to 4 major locations where they can pop up again.
Each one of them.

In the end, we'll have 1 with a rocket to shoot malik down
Jammer to block comm. for help
Grenades of EMP, gas, Frag throwing everywhere to block every entrances, maybe mines too.
& a cloak girl chasing us down everywhere we run. How do u suppose we get pass all that?

Darrow's signal won't work on them, as they aren't having the new thingamagic with them. So too bad for that idea. :D


or the chance to kill them prematurely a-la Lebedev's jet.
problem with that is, Anna was an ally, who won't shoot u when u meet in a non-hostile environment.
& those guys got their own business to deal with, always moving, no chance to bump into Adam, except during the boss fight time. :D

Anna is just a manakin waiting around to be shot at, in almost every level.

In a way, the bosses in DX:HR is just like Lebedev, u only meet him when ur going to kill or spare him, no "pre-encounters"

auric
4th Sep 2011, 11:45
You can.

How the heck do u do that???
lol

Is it the equipments around?
I activate my vision, they are glowing, didn't bother shooting it though. So is it???
lol

or shoot the tazer on the floor, lol

auric
4th Sep 2011, 11:56
Here's Namir's special way to kill him. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvgNhsJEFM0

but I got a quiker way, less than 58 seconds I think, lol

dun even need that big thing.

All i need to use a frag & a machine pistol

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 11:58
How the heck do u do that???
lol

Is it the equipments around?
I activate my vision, they are glowing, didn't bother shooting it though. So is it???
lol

Shoot the machinery that's attatched to the wall. It will explode, the explosion may damage her but I believe it also electrocutes the area around it.

Wait? The turret doesn't disappear in the Namir fight after all? I gotta try this again.

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 12:13
How do u suggest we "not kill them"?
4 times. Because we'll be heading to 4 major locations where they can pop up again.
Each one of them.

Which would be interesting and kind of Deus Ex-y. You know, running away from the first battle, only for that to have consequences later in the game when, because of your mercy, Malik gets shot down by Barrett or something. That sound's pretty good to me. Even if you did have to kill them eventually, that would at least still do it in a fashion befitting the rest of the game and indeed the franchise.

So you're kind of defeating your own point there, by pointing out just how much better it would be if the boss battles were done differently.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 12:22
Which would be interesting and kind of Deus Ex-y. You know, running away from the first battle, only for that to have consequences later in the game when, because of your mercy, Malik gets shot down by Barrett or something. That sound's pretty good to me. Even if you did have to kill them eventually, that would at least still do it in a fashion befitting the rest of the game and indeed the franchise.

So you're kind of defeating your own point there, by pointing out just how much better it would be if the boss battles were done differently.

I'm not defeating any point.

I'm all for different approach & consequence
What did u think JCpie & I was talking about?

I'm asking you, how to "escape" from them.

Tell me a story for each boss location, for I'm still hearing nothing...

1. Barret, how to escape him & still make it out alive with Malik
2. How to get out of that locked room with the machine
3. How to get out from that garden with a locked door

4. will be where all that troops shoot at Malik. :D

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 12:29
2. How to get out of that locked room with the machine

I dunno. I would have designed it differently from the start. So...the encounter didn't take place in a small locked room. I would make it so instead it took place in an area with multiple levels and places to explore. Maybe the Picus newsroom, for example. At the very least, I would make it possible to tranquilize them somehow, so you can subdue them indefinitely without actually killing them.

Asking me to come up with a scenario for the encounters as they were already designed is pointless, as they were specifically designed to prevent any kind of interesting 'escape'/'subdue'/'creative' tactics. They would have to be re-imagined from scratch.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 12:29
but Fox - you're forgetting how hard it would be to design the game with bosses returning in a meaningful way. Barrett shooting down malik sounds nice, but that is all? He's a major player in Jensen's story.

The only alternative way of sorting out boss battles would be capturing a boss to be taken into custody. But you could only do this with barrett as the rest happens in tai-young facilities. I cant think of any other similar idea with elena and namir.

Therefore, the only thing eidos really could have done is making it possible to deal with bosses by tranqulizing them. Dunno why it isnt possible. Plus, the fights could have been designed in a more comples way, rather than plain shootouts (especially the one with barrett)

Ha! I just realized that one nice boss fight could occur while malik's down. But on the other hand, the other option is to sneak away... Hmm! But! What if you dont kill barrett the first time and then HAVE to encounter him when malik is down? Then you DONT have the option to run past the enemies. I thinkt hats a really neat idea, dont you think?

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 12:37
The other alternative would have been to not include them in the first place in a way that means you can't deal with them creatively. If they've written themselves into a corner in regards to the design, with one-dimensional mercenaries whose only care in the world is 'kill or be killed', then maybe the solution to that is to do something different. Maybe have some characters who are a bit more ambiguous, who you can kill or capture or talk around to your side.

Think more along the lines of Sandoval, except if he were a more major player in the overall conspiracy.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 12:57
but there were some civilian major players and commando soldiers to help them. The soldier is thought to obey so they kind of fit. Besides I think there is more to Namir and others than it is in the game in the icarus effect or comics maybe. Havent gotten through them yet.

We have this super-dangerous augmented commando unit that stands in your way so anything different than killing them or imprisoning seems implausible. The fights just could have been resolved a little better with more approaches to explore.

But on the other hand it's hard to ask an enemy to approach you in an open area. Two of four battles take you by surprise (in case with barrett you take them by surprise. Well, kind of at least ;D). The fight with namir was the best, cause he concealed himself in the room full of those weird statues. Elena fight was climatic but the barret one kind of uninspired - they could have made the room tad differend at least to make the fight more interesting.

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 13:21
We have this super-dangerous augmented commando unit that stands in your way so anything different than killing them or imprisoning seems implausible.

So maybe there shouldn't have been one? Problem solved. It's all very well saying "They did pretty much the best with what they had", but what if they had designed it differently? How about instead of a merciless augmented commando unit, you had an elite augmented agent (not unlike Jensen) who was conflicted about the orders he was following? That would have allowed for alternative options to be more, as you put it, "plausible".

ricardosamuel1961
4th Sep 2011, 13:21
The boss fights in Deus Ex HR simply demonstrate the superiority of the original Deus Ex.

In the original Deus Ex

you could defeat Gunther and Anna Navarra in a number of ways. For example, by finding the pass codes that would "self destruct" them, or you could gun them down in a number of ways.

In Deus Ex HR the bosses are the same kinds of bosses you'll find in a myriad of other games: there is a cut scene and then you have to defeat the boss, who has some sort of super human weaponry at his disposal. This usually is a chore and adds nothing of value to the game.

Besides, I don't find the bosses in Deus Ex HR particularly challenging. The first boss, for example, can be defeated easily, simply by throwing canisters at him and typhooning him a couple of times. By this time in the game you should have plenty of praxis points to easily afford installing the typhoon aug.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 13:30
So maybe there shouldn't have been one? Problem solved. It's all very well saying "They did pretty much the best with what they had", but what if they had designed it differently? How about instead of a merciless augmented commando unit, you had an elite augmented agent (not unlike Jensen) who was conflicted about the orders he was following? That would have allowed for alternative options to be more, as you put it, "plausible".

They have enough conflicted people already.
We need one who's committed against us, we already got 1 committed against them in the sewers.
:D

I'd say the girl is the conflicted one, sadly she's mute. :)

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 13:33
They have enough conflicted people already.

They have enough non-conflicted people as well. How many soldiers patrolling the hallways were there, whose only goal was to destroy you on sight? At least them with them you always had the choice of, at an absolute minimum: lethal, non-lethal, or leave them alone. Removing two of those three options whilst adding no more, makes boss battles less interesting then dealing with a single normal enemy soldier.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 13:33
In Deus Ex HR the bosses are the same kinds of bosses you'll find in a myriad of other games: there is a cut scene and then you have to defeat the boss, who has some sort of super human weaponry at his disposal. This usually is a chore and adds nothing of value to the game.

Besides, I don't find the bosses in Deus Ex HR particularly challenging. The first boss, for example, can be defeated easily, simply by throwing canisters at him and typhooning him a couple of times. By this time in the game you should have plenty of praxis points to easily afford installing the typhoon aug.

I would say the canister is the alternative.

Boss 1 - Canisters
Boss 2 - Electrocution
Boss 3 - Turret :D

There are your alternatives.

Killswitches won't work, cause they don't have 1. When they dun have it, u gotta find other methods.

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 13:38
I just really didn't like how we knew little to nothing about these 'bosses' when we fought them. In the original the protagonist had met and talked to the 'bosses' a couple of times beforehand and you had a general understanding of why they fought you and had some sort of relationship with them.


In this game the bosses are merely roadblocks. One of them actually moves the story along but the others are just...there. In a game about story and choice you not only do you not know a thing about these people (though perhaps they were meant to be mysterious by design) but you have no choice but to fight AND kill them.


I'm just lucky that I read the Icarus Effect and have a little more knowledge of these characters, but it still left much to be desired and I hoped that the game would fill in the blanks. Suffice to say it didn't.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 13:38
They have enough non-conflicted people as well. How many soldiers patrolling the hallways were there, whose only goal was to destroy you on sight? At least them with them you always had the choice of, at an absolute minimum: lethal, non-lethal, or leave them alone. Removing two of those three options whilst adding no more, makes boss battles less interesting then dealing with a single normal enemy soldier.

Those r foot soldiers, talking about people who can intelligently talk back.
9/10 of them are conflicted people.

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 13:45
Those r foot soldiers, talking about people who can intelligently talk back.
9/10 of them are conflicted people.

Because the bosses intelligently talk back? Only Barrett and Namir ever say a word, and even then it's not exactly Shakespeare. I got vastly more useful plot information from the weapons dealer outside the FEMA facility.

The last boss is interesting enough, but that doesn't count in the 'rubbish boss fight' category as it was done in a vaguely more DX way. You could hack stuff, blow stuff up, use a bit of stealth. Still wasn't perfect but it's nowhere near as objectionable.

unbeatableDX
4th Sep 2011, 13:45
does no one realise you can shoot through the gaps in the wall in the namir fight.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:08
I just really didn't like how we knew little to nothing about these 'bosses' when we fought them. In the original the protagonist had met and talked to the 'bosses' a couple of times beforehand and you had a general understanding of why they fought you and had some sort of relationship with them.


In this game the bosses are merely roadblocks. One of them actually moves the story along but the others are just...there. In a game about story and choice you not only do you not know a thing about these people (though perhaps they were meant to be mysterious by choice) but you have no choice but to fight AND kill them.


I'm just lucky that I read the Icarus Effect and have a little more knowledge on their characters, but it still left much to be desired and I would hope that the game would fill in the blanks. Suffice to say it didn't.

That's the difference between an enemy & an ally turn enemy.

You can't have the same luxury on both sides.

It's like asking, why I know more about a friend who turn bad & join a gang than a group of terrorists who crash a plane.
By ur view shouldn't I know both of them just the same?

I know these 3 bosses well enough without behind the scenes help.
Lawrence Barrett:
A good soldier heavily augmented, taking the frontal attack.
Surprisingly calm, intelligent & well mannered compared to other soldiers, get ticked off when someone beat them to the morgue.

Yelena Fedorova:
If ur good at names, may figure her nationality.
Augmented legs, covert person, highly agile, hit & run, probably mute.
Not much of a type with personal goals, merciless & to the point.

Jaron Namir:
Leader of Belltower & the 3 of them.
Deeply augmented after a severe incident.
if ur good at accents & names, may figure his nationality

Quite loyal, unknown reasons. Agile & quick, keeps his distance

slap Adam's girl & the reason Adam's the way he is now.

:)

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 14:12
I know these 3 bosses well enough without behind the scenes help.

Yeah, really interesting characters you just listed there...

You want a good boss battle? Go play MGS3 and fight The End. The come back and tell me the Human Revolution ones are good :)

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:13
Because the bosses intelligently talk back? Only Barrett and Namir ever say a word, and even then it's not exactly Shakespeare. I got vastly more useful plot information from the weapons dealer outside the FEMA facility.

The last boss is interesting enough, but that doesn't count in the 'rubbish boss fight' category as it was done in a vaguely more DX way. You could hack stuff, blow stuff up, use a bit of stealth. Still wasn't perfect but it's nowhere near as objectionable.

Intelligent people dun need to prove they are.
They're intelligent enough & chose not to speak much, hence they're not conflicted.
Jabbers who aren't conflicted are just talkative, not necessary intelligent


does no one realise you can shoot through the gaps in the wall in the namir fight.

dunno, but didn't need to. :)

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:18
Yeah, really interesting characters you just listed there...

You want a good boss battle? Go play MGS3 and fight The End. The come back and tell me the Human Revolution ones are good :)

Different universe, no point comparing.

So yes, DX:HR bosses are good. :)
Dun need to be spoon fed to understand someone/something.

Have same discussion on Star Trek boards, people say they're not being explained properly, but I could answer every question of theirs based on mere observations of events, circumstances, past events, body languages, etc. even though most of it may not be planned :D

There are more ways to tell a tale.

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 14:19
That's the difference between an enemy & an ally turn enemy.

You can't have the same luxury on both sides.

It's like asking, why I know more about a friend who turn bad & join a gang than a group of terrorists who crash a plane.
By ur view shouldn't I know both of them just the same?

I know these 3 bosses well enough without behind the scenes help.
Lawrence Barrett:
A good soldier heavily augmented, taking the frontal attack.
Surprisingly calm, intelligent & well mannered compared to other soldiers, get ticked off when someone beat them to the morgue.

Yelena Fedorova:
If ur good at names, may figure her nationality.
Augmented legs, covert person, highly agile, hit & run, probably mute.
Not much of a type with personal goals, merciless & to the point.

Jaron Namir:
Leader of Belltower & the 3 of them.
Deeply augmented after a severe incident.
if ur good at accents & names, may figure his nationality

Quite loyal, unknown reasons. Agile & quick, keeps his distance

slap Adam's girl & the reason Adam's the way he is now.

:)

Thats...not really what I was saying at all. What you just stated were merely facts about the characters. Very vague facts. Very generic facts that make them generic bad guy characters. They really could have been so much more if we had known some of their reasoning for why they were doing what they were doing or any backstory to them at all. They may have just as well be compared to Metal Gear Solid villains...except those villains were actually interesting to fight and their boss battles were something new and fun to the game that people looked forward to. Some of the time the villains in MGS were fleshed out as well. DXHR villains are, again, roadblocks. Heck, in one part it a supporting character was blatanly saying one of the villains WAS a roadblock. Eliza was saying how she wanted to tell Adam more but she couldn't because 'She' was there. She might as well have said "Sorry Adam the story can't progress unless you get rid of that thing there".

In the original Deus Ex two of the bosses could be seen as 'allies turned enemies' but in truth most of them were just doing what they always were ordered to and you, the protagonist, was the one who changed sides. Walton Simons will always be one of my favorites because you had a couple of good conversations with him and got to know the kind of man he was by reading many emails, seeing many transmissions by him, and even seeing his medical chart.

If you are not going to give the player a choice to kill these bosses in a game about CHOICE then at least make the characters interesting for me.



Yeah, really interesting characters you just listed there...

You want a good boss battle? Go play MGS3 and fight The End. The come back and tell me the Human Revolution ones are good :)

Thank you!

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:27
Thats...not really what I was saying at all. What you just stated were merely facts about the characters. Very vague facts. Very generic facts that make them generic bad guy characters. They really could have been so much more if we had known some of their reasoning for why they were doing what they were doing or any backstory. They may have just as well be compared to Metal Gear Solid villains...except those villains were actually interesting to fight and their boss battles were something new and fun to the game that people looked forward to. DXHR villains are, again, roadblocks. Heck, in one part it a supporting character was blatanly saying one of the villains WAS a roadblock.

That's what u get from frontal encounter & lack of details lying around.
Which indicates they're good at keeping their shoes clean.

People like Anna & Gunther are both nuts leaving tons of stuff around for u to dig up, especially their killphrase.
Why the heck they have it in their pc???

they should format it.

so, DX:HR bosses are smarter than DX:TC bosses
also good at their work.

I don't see any DX:TC bosses do anything worth while but sit behind desks, blab, get thrown into prison by mere non-aug terrorists, come underwater to be blown up, stuck himself in a bubble, ....

EDITED
1 good example, Manderley
he's from DX1, hence we get to read tons about him on hacked PCs DX:HR. cause he's dumb.
That's why JC got the better of him & shot him behind his desk.

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 14:33
That's what u get from frontal encounter & lack of details lying around.
Which indicates they're good at keeping their shoes clean.

People like Anna & Gunther are both nuts leaving tons of stuff around for u to dig up, especially their killphrase.
Why the heck they have it in their pc???

they should format it.

so, DX:HR bosses are smarter than DX:TC bosses
also good at their work.

I don't see any DX:TC bosses do anything worth while but sit behind desks, blab, get thrown into prison by mere non-aug terrorists, come underwater to be blown up, stuck himself in a bubble, ....

Again, not my point, Anna and Gunther were MUCH more fleshed out than these characters. You had a few conversations with them or overheard their conversations and got a good feel for what these characters were and why they wanted to kill JC later. They could have implemented this in DXHR by having accidental 'close encounters' with these bad guys or overhear more conversations by them. The Tyrants were not 'keeping their shoes clean' by any circumstances as I found an email by each and every member of the Tyrants at least once in the game.


...Actually I'm having a really hard time understanding what you are saying at that last part there...??


1 good example, Manderley
he's from DX1, hence we get to read tons about him on hacked PCs DX:HR. cause he's dumb.
That's why JC got the better of him & shot him behind his desk.

Your reasoning is just...I mean Manderley shouldn't even be considered a boss character. Even then you didn't HAVE to do any of that; you didn't have to kill nor confront him.

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:35
Again, not my point, Anna and Gunther were MUCH more fleshed out than these characters. You had a few conversations with them or overheard their conversations and got a good feel for what these characters were and why they wanted to kill JC later. They could have implemented this in DXHR by having accidental 'close encounters' with these bad guys or overhear more conversations by them. The Tyrants were not 'keeping their shoes clean' by any circumstances as I found an email by each and every member of the Tyrants at least once in the game.


...Actually I'm having a really hard time understanding what you are saying at that last part there...??

I know ur point & my point is, it won't work here.

You can't know an enemy as well as a friend. Friends like them anyway, some friends are more quiet than enemies.

Locutus of BORG
4th Sep 2011, 14:37
Boss fights? You call it boss fights lol. They are just too easy to be called "bosses".

This. The boss fights require progressively less creative strategies/tactics to deal with as the game goes on because Adam gets so damn powerful while the bosses stay the same. Stealth/Hacker PTs aren't really penalized, since the game gives so much Praxis that you'll almost invariably have at least some combat augs like the Typhoon or whatever saved up for the bosses. There just aren't that many stealth augs actual stealth players would sink points into that would prevent them from being good at combat as well.

OTOH, Hyron is nice because at least its more obstensibly a puzzle than an actual fight... that is, unless you have a laser.

As a noob my complaint isn't so much boss difficulty, but that if boss fights 2-3 had more to them than just your typical arena fight, they'd be more fun, even if they still turned out to be easy as hell. Boss 1 was alright for me - I was at a low enough level and was inept enough at the controls for him to be a good challenge... Come boss 2, she was dead on her first charge (and I was playing a stealth character).

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 14:38
I know ur point & my point is, it won't work here.

You can't know an enemy as well as a friend. Friends like them anyway, some friends are more quiet than enemies.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this then, because I believe EM could have done a MUCH better job of making these into interesting, compelling villains, but they failed to do so in this installment. Maybe next time; because I am certainly not the only one dissatisfied with the bosses (on both a gameplay level and character level).

auric
4th Sep 2011, 14:42
The Tyrants were not 'keeping their shoes clean' by any circumstances as I found an email by each and every member of the Tyrants at least once in the game.
1 email throughout the game each? So that's what? 3?

& those in DX1, dozens of emails, gossips, conversations, anger towards a vending machine, ...

So, ya. DX:HR are keeping their shoes clean.

DX:HR = 3 dirts
DX:TC = 100 dirts


Your reasoning is just...I mean Manderley shouldn't even be considered a boss character. Even then you didn't HAVE to do any of that; you didn't have to kill nor confront him.
I didn't consider him a boss, I consider him a DX1 character, that's why we get to him more than others in DX:HR.
He leaves tons of trails & claim to be keeping it clean.

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 14:46
1 email throughout the game each? So that's what? 3?

& those in DX1, dozens of emails, gossips, conversations, anger towards a vending machine, ...

So, ya. DX:HR are keeping their shoes clean.

DX:HR = 3 dirts
DX:TC = 100 dirts


I didn't consider him a boss, I consider him a DX1 character, that's why we get to him more than others in DX:HR.
He leaves tons of trails & claim to be keeping it clean.

100 dirts? I said at least one each that doesn't mean it's an accurate count. I am not going to go back in the game just to count emails.

If you don't consider Manderley a boss, why mention him? This is about the depth of the bosses, no one else.

Fox89
4th Sep 2011, 14:57
EricaLeeVee: I'd recommend not continuing this discussion. You're up against somebody who chooses to interpret the fact that the boss characters are not developed in game as evidence of how well they are developed in game. You just can't fight logic like that.

Seriously. I mean, the argument you're dealing with here is akin to something like: "The fact that nobody ever sees Santa Claus coming down the chimney is not evidence that he does not exist. Rather, it is proof that he is a ninja".

EricaLeeV
4th Sep 2011, 14:59
EricaLeeVee: I'd recommend not continuing this discussion. You're up against somebody who chooses to interpret the fact that the boss characters are not developed in game as evidence of how well they are developed in game. You just can't fight logic like that.

Seriously. I mean, the argument you're dealing with here is akin to something like: "The fact that nobody ever sees Santa Claus coming down the chimney is not evidence that he does not exist. Rather, it is proof that he is a ninja".

Hahaha, yeah I suppose you're right. ;) Funny analogy there.

doctor_atomic
4th Sep 2011, 15:48
whine, whine, cry, whine, cry

When you grow up you may learn that your opinion is one tiny, almost inaudible voice in the universe and that other people will probably not agree with you.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 16:04
Why manderley isnt a boss? A chief of evil UNATCO seems pretty much like a boss. So what he doesnt fight back?

If youre taking the classic conception of boss characters then Barret is moar of a boss than Gunther cause he's more mysterious, more simple-minded (as it seems) and more evil. He also only wants to fight you which fits perfectly in the boss' shoes in the tradition of gaming.

What people was asking was to make the fights themselves more interesting here, not so shooter-oriented. We here, on the other hand, went into "the bosses are too one-dimensional characters" ;D


So, lets finish the original intention of this thread as a tie (or in slight favor of more complex approach) :>



So, we have 3 types of bosses in DXHR.

1. Tyrants (namir, Elena, Barret and some others that werent in the game)
2. Dragon Queen (the fourth boss)
3. Social Bosses, like Zeke or Sandoval

You tend to forgot the third category! THere you go Foxie! You got the complex boss characters you've been asking for. And when it comes to zeke you can kill him or talk his situation through. This category can be even expanded further, with inclusion of minor "bosses" like Haas.

So, as I am saying right from the beginning, you got people who you just cant converse in a meaningful way, like Barrett, and those "more complex", like Zeke or Sandoval.

In DX1 you couldn't talk your way past Gunther could you? In my opinion the only thing they did wrong was making the Barrett and Fedorova fights a little bit dull and straightforward (I found Namir fight very interesting with all those statues and stuff) and Zhao fight a little uninspired.

Some of you say they werent bosses, because they were fairly easy. Well, that may be the point (I didnt have much trouble), but still, many others had and have some pretty big difficulties defeating them, especially Namir.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 16:14
Bosses in Deus Ex (1) shouldn't even be called bosses. They're people who can't be killed until a certain point, when you face of with them they're practically normal enemies just with better weapons and augmentations.

Odysseyalien
4th Sep 2011, 16:19
Hold it a minute...let me grab some popcorn. :)

MonkeyLungs
4th Sep 2011, 16:19
Save grenades for boss fights. Spend 3 points on Typhoon. Kill bosses easily.

My first playthrough was non-lethal, sneaky guy, no Typhoon and the boss fights were harder but none of them took me more than 4 tries on GMDE difficulty.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 16:20
Bosses in Deus Ex (1) shouldn't even be called bosses. They're people who can't be killed until a certain point, when you face of with them they're practically normal enemies just with better weapons and augmentations.


you're joking, right?



EDIT:

Lol guys, look what I found regarding the peculiar AI in DX game :D (http://www.cdn.actiontrip.com/images/comics/at_comic446.jpg)

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 16:43
you're joking, right?

Joking about what exactly?

Esoterick
4th Sep 2011, 17:01
I was really poorly setup for the last boss fight, my character was setup to be a hacker with no combat skills and barely any ammo for each of the guns I was carrying

The way I did this fight was:
Destroy turrets with plasma gun
Hack terminals or alternately just press then 3 buttons in the centre of the room
Hack the panel in the centre of the room which has the same effect as killing the women.
I then jumped up on one of the ridges at the sides of the highest platform, from here I could not be electrocuted and only one bot spawned but did not register I was there. I waited around two minutes till the glass around Zhao broke then shot her 4 times with the plasma gun.

Seems a bit bugged that this approach worked but I did not have enough weaponry to take out all the robots

Esoterick
4th Sep 2011, 17:03
Does anyone ever bother to take cover when fighting Barrett? When you do, he's easy. That concrete barricade you start out by is far more significant than the barrels, and I've yet to see anyone mention they've used it.

I tried it but he just started moving around it, also he throws loads of grenades if you camp a spot.

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 17:08
"Enemies with better weapons and augmentations (which mean the are much stronger)" fall perfectly into boss category. What? They arent sized enough? Or theyre not robots? ;)

And I think social battles should count as boss battles the same, only we use words instead of guns or physical force to state our point. Well, we cant actually die, but we certainly can loose (by not achieveing something we want) or not like the outcome of our behavior.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 17:19
"Enemies with better weapons and augmentations (which mean the are much stronger)" fall perfectly into boss category. What? They arent sized enough? Or theyre not robots? ;)

I can Kill Gunther with Dragon's Tooth sword to the face, I could kill and MJ12 troop with one Dragon's Tooth sword to the face.

I can knock out anyone (who is not "immortal") in the game with the stun gun in one shot, I can't kill Barrett, Fedorova or Namir with one shot from the stun gun.

MoreDread
4th Sep 2011, 17:24
haha nice.. check out this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-tggXMhGm4

Lawtonn22
4th Sep 2011, 17:48
Barrett was dealt with using the stun gun to knock out his aug's + the handgun to pop him in the head.

Federova was put to rest with the stun gun & the assault rifle (same method as Barrett).

Namir fell in around 16 seconds using 1 emp & 4 rounds from the Linebacker.

I was very disappointed with these three, especially after having read the DX novel before I played the game, all three are described/portrayed as really,really hard bastards in that story but the reality is they're ******* in the game.
As for Zhao, I simply hacked the 3 terminals, used 2 of my magnum's explosive rounds on each gun turret, hacked/ turned off the drones life support & then shot Zhao in the head, emp's took care of the robots & the electric floor took care of the crazies.

All in all, four very underwhelming fights.:(

Jordasm
4th Sep 2011, 18:06
After reading all the reviews and player reviews, I hope EM will have learnt that including unavoidable bossfights was one of the stupidest decisions they ever made.

just_dont_do_it
4th Sep 2011, 18:29
I can't kill Barrett, Fedorova or Namir with one shot from the stun gun.
So?

On middle difficulty, bosses' health is fairly consistent of that would be expected from a heavily augmented human, namely Jensen himself. They can stand heavy gunfire just a tad longer than our hero (with armor upgrades activated, of course).

rwhit85
4th Sep 2011, 18:34
I have to agree with the OP. Expecting to have multiple avenues of dealing with a situation in a game like Deus Ex - that's ridiculous. Deux Es is and always has been about railroading your character into taking specific actions.

I especially like the part during the second boss where

You're told (in a cutscene) that you have a chance to save her, but you're short on time. Adam decides on his own NOT to save her, then has time to listen to the story, and run around the room collecting ammo if you wish. You can even AFK in the room for a half hour if you want. Where's the rush?

I mean really, I think it's silly that players would expect to have an option. Options are for chumps.

GamerSam
4th Sep 2011, 19:03
She hard to kill, it took me a day and i still can't get pass her. I'm on a break from the game because of it.

Tumbler 360
4th Sep 2011, 19:21
You guys should really stop moaning about boss battles.

The boss battles don't fit with the rest of the game. In just about every other part of the game you can jump between combat and stealth with ease. You can also use the environment to your advantage by throwing things, laying mines, hacking turrets and robots, etc.

The boss battles are so boring by comparison. I don't want to spoil anything so I'll say that I wish they built the boss battles like they did the rest of the game with options for sneaking around, laying traps, hacking security terminals and using those tools to kill them instead of needing to shoot them yourself. I loved how you could jump between combat/stealth during the game if you got tired of playing one way or the other.

I'd love to see them patch in a few tunnels and security bots during the boss fights so that you can kill the Boss's in other ways.

just_dont_do_it
4th Sep 2011, 19:26
The boss battles don't fit with the rest of the game. In just about every other part of the game you can jump between combat and stealth with ease. You can also use the environment to your advantage by throwing things, laying mines, hacking turrets and robots, etc.
You can do that on bosses too.

And there's a ton of examples right in this thread.

LkMax
4th Sep 2011, 19:59
Actually I liked the boss battles... There was a moment I was getting bored with all my stealth approaches. =P hehehe

MightySavagE
4th Sep 2011, 20:47
You can do that on bosses too.

And there's a ton of examples right in this thread.


yup. After all, you CAN sneak up on Barrett and leave mines for him but this requires much skill. I am not sure if cou can sneak up on fedorova - I never bought myself the stealth camo aug. If you use it with x-ray vision then in theory you could easily sneak up on her and do bad things to her ;) But I didnt test this - anyone? The same tactic could apply to Namir, but as I stated - I am not sure.

I now realized that maybe you cant use tranq darts on them because of their dermal implants that prevent penetration of darts? Or maybe they just have an anti-tranqulity aug that prevents them from getting asleep? :D

And hah, I forgot about Eliza saying that fedorova could be saved. Interesting.


So I think that there is a room for improvement in most of the regular boss battles, but given the context they work out rather well : )



And I remember Gunther being fairly resilient to most of my attacks. I also remember dragon tooth being a special weapon. Besides, it makes sense that you cant repel a energy sword but you can bullets and explosives with dermal upgrade. But we can refer to those encounters as "Battles with evil, powerful and story important people" from now on if you want to :D






haha nice.. check out this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-tggXMhGm4


lol, what an idea! xD

Lawtonn22
4th Sep 2011, 22:04
After reading all the reviews and player reviews, I hope EM will have learnt that including unavoidable bossfights was one of the stupidest decisions they ever made.

I'd at least hope that they'd have a different view of how the boss fights assist the story, I for one feel that all 4 added bugger all to Jensens tale, this and the fact that they also add nothing to the game must surely make EM wish they could've done a better job on these fights.

xDerivative
4th Sep 2011, 23:10
So when I went to save Megan I figured I might as well take a hacked turret with me (Heavy Augmetns Aug) to take down all those guards that were talked about earlier. Turns out, the guard was the third boss and I could take the turret with me into the boss battle! I hope you all enjoy the video as much as I enjoyed watching Namir get taken out by a turret.

2IdcxcjPa1A

knicks21
4th Sep 2011, 23:27
i didnt know you could do that! awesome! welcome to the forums as well!

daviareias
4th Sep 2011, 23:34
That's cool, never tested myself but I guess that if you have patience you can do it with barret and fedorova too.
There's a turret in the funicular room, maybe you can drag it all the way over to fedorova.

xDerivative
4th Sep 2011, 23:42
i didnt know you could do that! awesome! welcome to the forums as well!

Thanks for the welcome! I've found a few other interesting things in the game as well I suppose so if you check out my channel you'll see all of it there.


That's cool, never tested myself but I guess that if you have patience you can do it with barret and fedorova too.
There's a turret in the funicular room, maybe you can drag it all the way over to fedorova.

Surprisingly it didn't require much patience at all. The turret was useful to take out the three spec ops guards that charge out at you as soon as you activate the GPLs.. Then, it wasn't that long of a walk to the elevator... You just have to remember to take it out of the elevator, as the doors close (that would suck!)

As for Fedorova and Barret, I already did *real* guides for those two, but the Deus Ex Wikia asked if I could do a full walkthrough for them so I'm doing a second stealth + pacifist playthrough. Just because I placed the turret there doesn't mean I killed the guards. :P

Ashpolt
4th Sep 2011, 23:52
That's cool, never tested myself but I guess that if you have patience you can do it with barret and fedorova too.

You can't do it with Barrett, because you have to put the turret down to open the door, and as soon as you press the door button the cutscene starts and the door locks behind you. I was pretty disappointed in that one.

Glad to hear you can do it with Namir though - for me, this kind of stuff is what defines Deus Ex.

mad825
4th Sep 2011, 23:57
I've done this before although it never really helped for me.

xDerivative
5th Sep 2011, 00:11
You can't do it with Barrett, because you have to put the turret down to open the door, and as soon as you press the door button the cutscene starts and the door locks behind you. I was pretty disappointed in that one.

Glad to hear you can do it with Namir though - for me, this kind of stuff is what defines Deus Ex.

That's unfortunate. Would have made for a fun video.


I've done this before although it never really helped for me.

Ah, then hopefully the video properly conveys how it can help for others.

Zenithtb
5th Sep 2011, 00:18
I did this. Which was lucky, as I'd taken the 'new, shiny' augmentation, and could not see sh1t. I tried to stay alive while my new friend did the rest ;-)

xDerivative
5th Sep 2011, 00:22
I did this. Which was lucky, as I'd taken the 'new, shiny' augmentation, and could not see sh1t. I tried to stay alive while my new friend did the rest ;-)

Just like having some kickass ally on your team.. Since I didn't take the aug I didn't realize it, but it must help tons more when you're disabled.

INSTG8R
5th Sep 2011, 00:37
I did this. Which was lucky, as I'd taken the 'new, shiny' augmentation, and could not see sh1t. I tried to stay alive while my new friend did the rest ;-)

Yeah I ended up in the same boat too I was glad to have my extra buddy cuz with no Augs and your HUD goin nuts it was not fun trying to fight him.

reincarn
5th Sep 2011, 01:29
Lol, yes I did the same with a turret on this boss fight.

mm, Turrets and robots were my best friends.
The only reason I didn't want to set off the alarms on my psycho run-through as I didn't want to have to destroy them before I hacked them.

xDerivative
5th Sep 2011, 01:46
Speaking of hacking turrets and bots, do you guys know if the kills they get you are counted against the not killing people achievement?

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2011, 01:59
How come your eye-aug allows you to see Namir when he's cloaked, but not Federova?

PS. "You never get back the ones you love" is in reference to Namir's sister. Read the Icarus Effect. Tis goodly. :)

auric
5th Sep 2011, 02:01
EricaLeeVee: I'd recommend not continuing this discussion. You're up against somebody who chooses to interpret the fact that the boss characters are not developed in game as evidence of how well they are developed in game. You just can't fight logic like that.

Seriously. I mean, the argument you're dealing with here is akin to something like: "The fact that nobody ever sees Santa Claus coming down the chimney is not evidence that he does not exist. Rather, it is proof that he is a ninja".

Nah, the better analogy would be
"A robber sued the house owner they came to rob because the house owner's roof is badly maintained & he fell off."

Because this is logic vs logic. Santa is logic vs fantasy or altered logic (because it was based on a real event, changed for kids).

Both our arguments are logical, hence there's no end.
so like EricaLeeVee said, agree to disagree. :)

xDerivative
5th Sep 2011, 02:16
How come your eye-aug allows you to see Namir when he's cloaked, but not Federova?

PS. "You never get back the ones you love" is in reference to Namir's sister. Read the Icarus Effect. Tis goodly. :)

Yeah, I read about that on the wiki afterwards... But I guess I can check out the Icarus Effect also. :P

Kivan
5th Sep 2011, 02:36
I don't think this is supposed to be possible....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I&feature=related

xDerivative
5th Sep 2011, 02:39
I don't think this is supposed to be possible....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I&feature=related

Well no it's not. It's a glitch.

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2011, 03:00
Totally should be, though. :)

hulde gran
5th Sep 2011, 03:05
I don't think this is supposed to be possible....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I&feature=related

I will try that next time i fight him.

TheYouthCounselor
5th Sep 2011, 04:01
I did something kind of like this:

fWF24OGMYvs

Pinky_Powers
5th Sep 2011, 04:16
^... Very clever! I like! :thumb:

JCpies
5th Sep 2011, 07:10
I did this, but I thought the turret disappeared since you just drop it by the elevator.

rubiomhs
5th Sep 2011, 07:36
federova is a transexual.

Tycho
5th Sep 2011, 07:53
I did:

Berret: trow EMP grenade, get near him and shoot him with the Stun Gun till he is down (need >20 darts)
Federova: Shoot her with the Stun Gun till she is down (also >20 darts)
Namir: 1 mag of the grenade launcher (DLC, Stun Gun don't work because unlike the other two, he recovers quicker than you can reload)

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 18:40
whilst i agree an what most people say about the bosses, i enjoy the challenge. but it certainly is not DX1 style.

my alternatives & thoughts

they should of had bosses that justify them taking tons of bullets and given them a greater challenge-
1. a big mech boss fight.
2. a magnetic field similar to fortune's in MGS2
3. an boss in full body armour. including the head (barret could of simply had a retractable helmet)
4. a boss fight where the boss takes the same amount of bullets as the heavy brutes, but stays in a bulletproof room operating turrets & laser cannons until you disable them, whilst standard enemies are spawning in aswell.

and obviously the option to run away on SOME bosses(1 or 2), just for freedom/variety/immersive sim reasons and to continue the dx1 legacy.

the cutscenes were ok but they should of had Jensen always entering rooms more cautiosly, as anyone would when battling/sneaking through tons of soldiers in real life. augged or not

although the bosses are ok a little more thought into them would have been cool. and more character development for SOME of the bosses (i liked that yelena F didnt talk, and Zhao should have been a mute, hated that character)

ricardosamuel1961
7th Sep 2011, 18:44
The boss battles are easily the weakest part of Human Revolution. They are pointless and meaningless and do nothing to advance the story in any meaningful way.

It's actually a step behind the first Deus Ex.

That said, if you just don't waste precious resources on them, max out your typhoon aug -and, bingo!, problem solved.

DanB2644
7th Sep 2011, 18:50
yeah, really seemed out of place, especially if you take the stealth approach.

Seems like they threw them in just because so many games have boss battles. Hopefully they'll reconsider that decision for the next release. I wonder what the play testers commented about the boss battles, especially Deus Ex players.

sumoftwosins
7th Sep 2011, 19:01
As a Deus Ex player.... the boss battles were like the ones from the first game. Not too many complaints from me. Granted a lot didn't make sense, but it is a game. If games made sense, then there wouldn't be much to them.

Jordasm
7th Sep 2011, 19:03
Kinda sucked. Zhao being the worst/easiest of them. Panchaea in general was quite a let down.

JCpies
7th Sep 2011, 19:05
I don't hate the boss battles, I just wish that they were more creative.

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 19:05
As a Deus Ex player.... the boss battles were like the ones from the first game. Not too many complaints from me. Granted a lot didn't make sense, but it is a game. If games made sense, then there wouldn't be much to them.

DX1 made sense, mostly. there is a reason why its called an immersive sim. (even though i always play guns blazing, it sure as hell is immersive and realistic in a sense)

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 19:10
Kinda sucked. Zhao being the worst/easiest of them. Panchaea in general was quite a let down.

i pray for a patch to have proper enemies in panchaea, in fact i would PAY to have this.

Jordasm
7th Sep 2011, 19:23
i pray for a patch to have proper enemies in panchaea, in fact i would PAY to have this.

I'd pay for a last level that isn't ****. Augmented zombies? C'mon... Singapore felt more like last level material to me than Panchaea did. I'd like a different bossfight too, Namir would have been a much better final boss than Zhao, who was just a poor mans Maggie Chow, and I didn't really care about her, just found her annoying.
Panchaea was basically corridor after corridor. Infact HR was largely that, but with hubs in between. I mean in the original you had Area 51, Vandenberg, blowing up that boat, etc.

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 19:33
I'd pay for a last level that isn't ****. Augmented zombies? C'mon... Singapore felt more like last level material to me than Panchaea did. I'd like a different bossfight too, Namir would have been a much better final boss than Zhao, who was just a poor mans Maggie Chow, and I didn't really care about her, just found her annoying.
Panchaea was basically corridor after corridor. Infact HR was largely that, but with hubs in between. I mean in the original you had Area 51, Vandenberg, blowing up that boat, etc.

i completely agree, post your thoughts in my "Devs listen up, cash to be made" thread. lets get their attention.

JCpies
7th Sep 2011, 19:41
i completely agree, post your thoughts in my "Devs listen up, cash to be made" thread. lets get their attention.

There have been countless threads like that. They're not going to magically listen to you.

We can just hope that they take everything they've learnt and create a better sequel.

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 19:47
There have been countless threads like that. They're not going to magically listen to you.

We can just hope that they take everything they've learnt and create a better sequel.

its worth a try

exmachinad
7th Sep 2011, 21:28
I will just copy and paste my post from the other thread since I think boss fights shoud be eliminate from the face of teh earth:

Seems a lot of peope are defending the 'one way boss fights' just for the sake of... "Nostalgia!"
"Nostalgia" from the games from the 80's that were all about boss fights.

Yeah, I used that word. If one can't argue that the first DX (that is eleven years old) is better overall than HR without having the word "nostalgia!" thrown at him, what to say for those who defend a 'game mechaninc' so old that is here with us since... the begining, which was, like what, 30 years ago?

"Nostalgia!" thrown at boss lovers! :D" The industry as a whole has grown up" , has it not, Eidos Montreal? ;)

unbeatableDX
7th Sep 2011, 21:32
and i shall copy & paste my response to you
Seems a lot of peope are defending the 'one way boss fights' just for the sake of... "Nostalgia!"
"Nostalgia" from the games from the 80's that were all about boss fights.

Yeah, I used that word. If one can't argue that the first DX (that is eleven years old) is better overall than HR without having the word "nostalgia!" thrown at him, what to say for those who defend a 'game mechaninc' so old that is here with us since... the begining, which was, like what, 30 years ago?

"Nostalgia!" thrown at boss lovers! :D "The industry as a whole has grown up" , has it not, Eidos Montreal? ;)

agreed, but a couple of forced boss fights aswell as multi solution ones would be great. best of both game worlds

MonkeyLungs
7th Sep 2011, 22:13
Typhoon + Candy bars = No worry on bosses.

On my first playthrough I had no typhoon, played a pacifist on GMDE difficulty, and yes the fights were much harder than my 2 subsequent playthroughs. They weren't impossible though and I didn't even take dermal armor until after I beat Fedorava. I would have liked a way to avoid them and it was a bit gamey that each boss had an arena type place to fight them in.

BlackFox
7th Sep 2011, 22:30
I liked the set up's to the Fedorova and Namir fights and their settings its just the Typhoon and Grenade launcher just made them feel a bit of a one sided affair with Adam a walking bomb. Although it did make you feel extremely bad-ass which I guess is the aim of the game!!

In fact if the game had ended on Namirs "Men like us never get back the things we love" line I would have been more than happy with this ending!!

Still the last boss was was the only one I would say I disliked, at least the other three had strong meaning from the story point of view.

Even if those poor suckers never stood a chance against AJ's might!!

Jason Parker
7th Sep 2011, 23:47
I've seen this question arise here various times already mostly people asume takedowns aren't possible. But I just did the Boss Fight against Namir again this time walking straight up to him and using typhoons. The first one he dodged by jumping over the wall the second one he jumped straight into. Then just as I hit the F2 key again to finish him with a third shot I saw the takedown icons appear. Leading me to the question: Though not immediatly possible, are takedowns available on stunned/weakened bosses?

Sulix
7th Sep 2011, 23:56
Leading me to the question: Though not immediatly possible, are takedowns available on stunned/weakened bosses?

At least against Fedorova it didn't work out quite well. In fact, while she was stunned, she simply countered my nonlethal takedown, hurting ME to death. Well THAT was unexpected...

imported_BoB_
7th Sep 2011, 23:58
The icon appears on them like a normal enemy, but Federova has a special attack that instantly kills you if you tried to takedown her. Namir can be knock out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1X5F0d58I) though, but it's probably a bug.

robalp
8th Sep 2011, 02:23
This might be old news by now, but this phenomenon has confused me too much to stay silent!

Why do so many people have a problem with the bosses? In most discussions I've seen, the HR wiki page and so on I've seen countless comments on the unreasonable difficulty and disappointing nature of the fights.

I played for the first time on the hardest difficulty - I'm not about to deny how many times I died, but I don't consider any of the encounters to be beyond anyone's ability to handle, even with rockbottom augmentations.

The first boss can be killed with barrels. Its hardly a intellectual stretch. The second boss can be relentlessly chased and worn down after shes run out of charges. The third boss can be dealt with using clever maneuvering, or if you don't feel like it, the laser rifle. And yeah, I had the biochip that stripped me of abilities. In fact I'm glad I did. Oh damn, do they kill you too quickly? When I managed to kill them, it didn't exactly take long either. 2-3 grenades and a couple of clips should deal with any one of them.

One thing I will admit if that if you literally have no explosives, ammo or pertinent augmentations, well then its a bit more difficult. Except equipment is laid out for you anyway.

I'm perfectly aware that there are many who don't agree with much of what I say... But I'm surprised people find it in them to be petty enough to form a harsh complaint about something they would rather struggle with than think about.

duran_ii
8th Sep 2011, 03:10
Hey guys, new forum member here. I was reading through the boss fight guides, and honestly, a lot of them are just unnecessarily complicated.

Here is the easiest way to defeat the bosses (killed them without dying at all on Give me Deus Ex mode):

Barrett: Hump the pillars and get head shots with your combat rifle. He goes down amazingly fast when you pump his head full of lead. When he turns to the corner to come around to your pillar, sprint to the other side of the room and repeat. You can also just spam your rocket launcher and kill him that way too.

Federova: This fight is a joke. As soon as she charges at you in the beginning, dodge to the left and keep firing your rocket launcher at her. You effectively stun lock her and win easy. She never hit me once and I killed her in 10 seconds. Make sure you upgrade your rocket launcher with reload speed upgrades (honestly, you only need it for the rocket launcher)

Namir: Two words: Rocket Launcher. As soon as the fight begins, shoot him with a rocket. On Deus Ex mode, he recovers too fast to spam it. Once you stun him with the launcher, sprint up to him and do 2 Typhoons and he's toast. Easy fight. After the first Typhoon, immediately do the second one. He'll be too busy firing at you to move away from it. If your augs are disabled, just keep shooting him with the rocket launcher.

Zhao: Total joke. Grab some cover, and destroy the turrets as soon as they start rotating around. Ideally you want to destroy each turret before it turns to face you. Once done, disable the pods. Afterwards, run to the top platform. You'll notice there are walls separating each section of the room. Jump on top of the wall so that you're not touching the floor. Jump on a wall that'll allow you to face Zhao. The electricity won't even touch you, nor will the bots or zombies even notice you. Eventually, the glass will open and you can roast her. Otherwise, just shoot your laser rifle at her.

Hope this helps. The rocket launcher is your friend.

Pinky_Powers
8th Sep 2011, 03:40
And if your play-style doesn't happen to support rocket-launchers?

By the way, fighting Barrette is hard not because of how much damage he takes (which is a lot) but his goddamn grenades! Your strategy doesn't address that. His ability to spam grenades makes him unbearably frustrating for me.

unbeatableDX
8th Sep 2011, 04:09
And if your play-style doesn't happen to support rocket-launchers?.
LOL indeed. dont see the point of using rocket launchers, its overkill. and dont know why this guy would make a thread about it. same as typhoon. basically cheating.


By the way, fighting Barrette is hard not because of how much damage he takes (which is a lot) but his goddamn grenades! Your strategy doesn't address that. His ability to spam grenades makes him unbearably frustrating for me.

barret aint that hard really. none of the bosses are. use barrels or keep on the move and use cover and headshots.

duran_ii
8th Sep 2011, 04:28
Well, technically you can say that about any of the boss guides in terms of "what if my play style doesn't support this?" I'm just posting about the easiest way to take the bosses down by being resourceful and using specific weapons for specific purposes. In my playthrough, I saved all my rockets for bosses, I never used them in standard play. To me, the rocket launcher was my "boss weapon." and unlike the heavy/plasma/laser rifle, it's available early in the game.

There's been quite a few people who complain that boss fights force you to fight when otherwise you would have used stealth or diplomatic options. Why would using Typhoons or a Rocket Launcher be considered overkill or cheap? You're using the right tool for the situation. It's no different than using a stun gun against Ogres. Would throwing the barrels at Barrett also be cheating? There's many ways to beat a boss, I'm just sharing mine. Since you're "forced" to fight, why not use the best method to get it over with?

As for Barrett, sometimes his grenade bounces off the pillar, but obviously you'll want to use common sense. If he's across the room and tosses a grenade that would hurt you, run to the other side (i.e. you're on the right side of the room, so you'd run to the left side of the room). The key is to use the pillars as cover. Obviously spamming the rocket launcher is the easiest way to beat him, but like I mentioned, a Combat Rifle with the laser targeting upgrade translates to easy head shots. In fact, if you unload on his head at full auto, you should be able to kill him before he tosses too many grenades at you.

The other strategy for Barrett is to toss an EMP grenade at him, that will weaken him to allow you to better shoot him in the head. The beauty of grenades is that you don't have to expose yourself to fire when tossing it, making them very effective in providing suppressive fire. The fundamental strategy (no matter what weapon you use) is to NOT get out of cover until he compromises your position by either getting too close or when he's about to flush you out with a grenade. If he gets too close, wait until he finishes unloading his ammo, then sprint down the room to the other pillar, otherwise he'll fill your ass with lead. You want to maintain a large distance from him. He's a bit slow to get to you, especially when he's firing.

As soon as the fight with Barrett starts, you want to quickly shoot the barrel next to him to stun him long enough to get into position.

It is also very helpful to stack up on hypostims and painkillers. Not only can you heal yourself fully, but it helps to have 200 health before a boss fight in case things get tough.

unbeatableDX
8th Sep 2011, 04:36
There's been quite a few people who complain that boss fights force you to fight when otherwise you would have used stealth or diplomatic options. Why would using Typhoons or a Rocket Launcher be considered overkill or cheap? .

you have a point. its just i always take the combat route and like to challenge myself. in dx1 i used the gep gun on gunther and walked away feeling very unsatisfied, so i reloaded and killed him with my normal guns. but if you can run away, hack turrets, or persuade as other means of victory against bosses in dx1 then i dont see why your rocket launcher tactic shouldnt be accepted in DX:HR. apologies, carry on.

Tobikage
8th Sep 2011, 04:36
all you need to do for Barret is emp him step out an unload a full clip of the assault rifle the barrel has the same effect he tosses grenades just pillar hump sprint to the next one rinse repeat federova is even easier if you have typhoon just let her run at you when u see her slide hit f2 the animation overrides any damage to you i think it takes 3 you can use this tactic on namir also the only problem that everyone has is that there is no alternate method other than killing em but its no issue to me been playing mgs for a lifetime n tranquilising the bosses with the m9 or mk22 only to have them die in the cutscene btw i can understand that this is a letdown for most people that played the original but still i dont see why this would stop anyone from playing it the gameplay itself is amazing for me it succeeds even mgs in terms of gameplay and thats the game i hold with the most regard.

unbeatableDX
8th Sep 2011, 04:38
the bosses are easy/medium even with standard guns. people just fail.

3nails4you
8th Sep 2011, 05:11
Lol even on non-lethal, I just keep 5 Typhoon ammo on me at all times and use my praxis to upgrade that by the time I get to Fedorova, then just spam that and eat a couple candy bars, they go down without you even taking any damage. With Barrett, just hit him with an explosion or the stun gun, then run around throwing explosive barrels at him. I didn't really find any of the boss fights very challenging, even without doing this (although Namir gave me a little run for my money because I was just out of almost everything).

Romeo
8th Sep 2011, 06:01
I don't know why you're all making Federova's fight so hard... If you have the EMP Aug, you can bait her in to the power cores without consequence. She'll kill herself quickly without you firing a single round.

I found the easiest solution for Namir was to use the slits in the walls to shoot at him when he was stealthed. The plasma rifle rounds are too bulky for him to return fire.

And Zhao is a total joke to kill. I had the laser rifle (Was my first time using it). Quickly destroyed the ring of turrets, then walked down and killed all three drones before anything was released quick enough to stop me. Took out the insane people then shot Zhao for a couple seconds and it was done. I'd estimate the first lasted less than a minute, and I took almost no damage (Got hit by a turret once or twice).



In fact, throughout the game, the only boss that was even slightly frustrating to me was Barrett, and that had alot to do with the fact I had invested exclusively in non-combat augs (Hacking, mostly). Even still, without following a special strategy, I ended up beating him through attrition (Wait in a corner until you have a good opening, then concussion grenade and run!)

imported_BoB_
8th Sep 2011, 06:19
Well, the EMP way is the right way because they're augmented people. I don't even understand how players of Deus Ex could complain about the difficulty of the bosses in Human Revolution to be honest.

You know they're augmented people in the intro, you know you're in a Deus Ex game, so you stack EMP grenades, it's just common sense.

Romeo
8th Sep 2011, 06:41
Well, the EMP way is the right way because they're augmented people. I don't even understand how players of Deus Ex could complain about the difficulty of the bosses in Human Revolution to be honest.

You know they're augmented people in the intro, you know you're in a Deus Ex game, so you stack EMP grenades, it's just common sense.
Nah, I didn't stack EMP grenades. Because the bosses all shamble/run towards you at all times, I found the mines more useful.

Jordasm
8th Sep 2011, 08:05
I think it's just because they feel really out of place, break the flow of the game, and they're easy as ****. That and you don't particularly care about the bosses at all, I mean in DX you had Gunther, Anna, Walton Simons. Those people you grew to hate slightly because you'd actually spoken to them all before they became enemies, but with Namir, Fedorova, and Barrett, you don't know ANYTHING about them, they're just people, getting in your way.

daemonjax
9th Sep 2011, 07:03
Anyone on here defeated Barrett on the hardest difficulty? If so, how did you do it?

I'm on the Barrett level now. I'm hoping my EMPs, frags and pre-order shotgun and will do the trick.

I threw 2 concussion grenades, 1 frag grenade, 1 gas grenade, 1 emp grenade, and 2 explosive barrels at him... I also shot an explosive barrel he was standing near, and then finished him off with the combat rifle. I don't really use grenades in normal play (except EMP for those big bots).

EDIT: Having 200 health from drinking all the alcoholic beverages laying around helped, too.

Romeo
9th Sep 2011, 07:23
Daemon, you raise an interesting point... This game finally addresses something we Irish have known for years: If you down multiple bottles of whisky in rapid succession, you double your lifespan. It's just science.

Vozlov
9th Sep 2011, 09:41
My tactics are all on the HARDEST difficulty.

Boss 1. All I used were a few concussion grenades, a couple of frag grenades and an un-upgraded revolver I had just found. Simple tactics, grenade-shoot-cover, move when he gets too close/throws a grenade. Repeat.

Boss 2. The most difficult. I didn't have an EMP aug, so important not to let the electricity go off. Using an upgraded revolver ( explosive bullets ) and vision aug I turned the battle back on her whenever I could. Running when she attacked, but hunting her the second she ran.

Boss 3. Frag and EMP grenades as well as mines. Upgraded revolver, vision aug. Same principle as the second boss, but using more cover.

Krankor
9th Sep 2011, 12:57
I was REALLY disappointed with the 'Final Boss'.
(Especially if you convinced Darrow 30 minutes ago)

I was expecting more of a challenge, I thought the electrical bursts were going to kill me, (then I forgot my EMP aug protected me!)

Krankor
9th Sep 2011, 14:00
I don't hate the boss battles, I just wish that they were more creative.

I was thinking the same thing... Nearly all of them are the same, (hide in cover, shoot when you have an opening, Grenades when ready)

I wanted the boss areas to be MUCH larger. For example; with the Barret fight you could fight him in a warehouse and finally beat him by dropping large cargo crates on him (the trick being getting him under one).

The second fight should have been based on 'out sneaking' her; where you'd need to sneak up behind her and use take-downs only (not instant death, but several required).

Krankor
9th Sep 2011, 14:18
I.. have a confession...

I beat her when she got hung up on the corner of one of the computer towers... She was running in place and I just unloaded my Machine Gun into her face....

I'm sorry. :(

Romeo
9th Sep 2011, 15:42
As people have mentioned, EMP Shielding makes this fight winnable without firing a round, should you so desire. Simply bait her in to the power nodes when she charges.

If you lack EMP shielding, you can attempt the same tactic if you have upgraded jumping. Bait her in to the towers, and when she blows them up, jump as much and as often as possible. You'll take heavy damage, but will survive with about 10 health remaining. Allow it to recharge, and repeat as necessary.


I have seen a suggestion to use the Heavy Rifle... I would advise against that. Because she is such a small, nimble target, the Heavy Rifle's spool up time and gross inaccuracy makes it all-but-useless in the fight. Mines and an automatic will also work, as does the apparently boss-friendly tactic of stunning and using the Typhoon.

Romeo
9th Sep 2011, 15:52
...You wanted MORE takedowns in the game? Are you serious? TERRIBLE IDEA.

I do agree that the boss-fights felt slightly uninspired, but in the original Deus Ex they were even less complex... People seem to keep forgetting. There they were simply stronger combat units, no special tactics at all.

Krankor
9th Sep 2011, 17:34
...You wanted MORE takedowns in the game? Are you serious? TERRIBLE IDEA.

Let me clarify what I'm thinking of with the Federova Boss fight. I thought it should be a big game of cat and mouse stealth.

She would try to sneak up on you and shoot you, if you try to do a take-down on her while facing her front, she would counter. If you started to return fire she would go into cover or throw emp grenades at you.

The win would be at least three successful 'take-downs' used with her back facing you. (NO INSTANT KILL).
Eliza's comments would help to make it tense.

Maybe some quick time events? I don't know about that though, some people don't really like it. But that would have been cool to have a transition in the fight or a finisher; Adam runs up to boss for takedown and instead it starts a quicktime where you have to beat them to win...

Oh well, generally the bosses were all kinda like normal enemies with ten times more HP with bigger guns... and names!:lol:

DeanEH
9th Sep 2011, 19:52
When fighting the third boss has anyone taken the turrent with them and found out that the turrent had some how been damaged it didn't work? My turrent was broken. It took only a couple of seconds I was dead and my turrent was destroyed.:eek:

RastaTings
9th Sep 2011, 20:38
My Strats were super simple and worked well on all fights in GDE mode.

Barrett: EMP grenade right off the start, run around the room and throw barrels at him ftw.

Federova: 2 properly timed Typhoons (while she was running at me) and a couple blasts with a shotgun. Typhoon is fully upgraded

Namir: Throw and EMP as he throws the gas grenades. Took cover near a corner, he fired plasma at me and I got him with the laser rifle. Didn't even need to typhoon at all

Zhao: Used code from Darrow to turn off turrets and kill drones, used an EMP on each of the bots and a typhoon on each of the groups of soldiers. Didn't have EMP protection upgrade, so I either avoided the electric current or just stood on top of a ledge which was fine. Blasted Zhao with laser rifle for about 2 secs once the glass broke.

Destroyed Panchea as it seemed like the ending that would fit most logically with DX1. Great game

auric
9th Sep 2011, 22:24
Namir:
All I need is a Frag grenade & Machine pistol to beat him in less then a minute. No need to hide, well except to avoid the blast of the frag grenade

No Augs required, as proof I got the new chip ;)

Tolthir
10th Sep 2011, 06:07
As a stealth player I found the boss fights to be a bit of a nuisance, so I spent some time trying to figure out an easy way to beat each one. Here are the easiest ways I could come up with (on "Give Me Deus Ex" difficulty):

Barrett: Stun him 15 times with the stun gun. He's completely incapacitated while stunned and can't fight back.

Federova: Stun her once with the stun gun as she charges you, then back up and throw 4 or 5 frag grenades/mines at her. Or you can stun her about 30 times with the stun gun.

Namir: The cutscene doesn't start until you leave the elevator, so you can actually set a trap for him by throwing a bunch of mines over the wall in front of you and to the right. When the battle starts, run to the right, and he will follow you straight into the mines. This ends the battle in a few seconds. (Thanks to Youtube for this one).

Zhao: Take cover from the turrets and shoot Zhao through the glass with the laser rifle.

Cronicler
10th Sep 2011, 20:52
Here is a very quick and dirty strategy to breeze through the 3 Augmented Mercenary fights

To skip these bothersome events under 5 seconds, you need 1 loaded StunGun and 2 stacks of Frag-Mines (6 of them)
Before entering the battle zone, equip your StunGun and Frag-Mines.
When the battle starts, hit the boss with a stun then spam 5 frag mines. Be sure to hit him with the mines.
Move away and the battle is done.

Or alternatively equip your heaviest dps weapon (upgraded pistol is surprisingly effective for this, only heavy rifle or rocket launcher are faster) and EMP grenade.
When the fight starts, immediately hit the boss with an emp grenade and start filling the person of questionable parentage's face with lead.

Kodaemon
11th Sep 2011, 06:19
Last time I fought Barrett, I stockpiled stun gun ammo beforehand and just cattle-prodded the Bull 'til he was down.

unbeatableDX
11th Sep 2011, 06:21
whats the point. id rather shoot him up normally for the challenge. but i understand if you are a steath gamer. never had trouble with the bosses myself.

Agent Denton
11th Sep 2011, 06:26
TyPHOON!!!!

Kodaemon
11th Sep 2011, 06:33
Why the heck would someone who's playing stealthy non-lethal get the typhoon, especially as early as FEMA?

mrvwbug
11th Sep 2011, 09:18
For barret, chuck gas cylinder at him, then chuck an explosive barrel, pop off a few shots while hes stunned, do this twice and hes dead on "challenge" difficulty

Dan Phillips
11th Sep 2011, 10:03
I used one frag grenade instantly on Barret, followed by a combat rifle clip. When he drew close I let him follow me round the corner and put a frag mine down a I went. Sprinted to cover and the explosion killed him. Done! Took maybe 15 seconds.

xD3S1x
11th Sep 2011, 23:56
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CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 03:13
Ok, I've arrived at the Yelena boss with upgrades not particularly suited for this fight, and very low on ammo of all kinds. I've tried and tried and tried, but I just can't beat this biatch. Am I screwed? is there a cheat I could use to get past her? Need the info! Sorely tempted to just walk away from the game entirely otherwise.

imported_BoB_
14th Sep 2011, 04:12
You don't have any grenades/mines? Because for the bosses, it's the best way to beat them easily.

If you don't have any weapons, just pick the machine gun in the room before entering and do this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXtOwz7EiU).

It seems very long, but possible if you follow the instructions so...

CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 04:21
Problem is she just takes one shot at me and I'm dead. I'm not even having fun at this point.

Kamikave
14th Sep 2011, 04:25
I had the same problem than you. I ended up restarting the game with more fighting augs (like dermal armor to be immune to electricity) and killed her very easily. Unless you can do as the video says, yes you're screwed ^^'

bfett81
14th Sep 2011, 04:31
You don't have Typhoon?

CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 04:33
No typhoon. I have the lowest dermal armor but that doesn't appear to do much. She takes one shot at me and I'm done.

Kamikave
14th Sep 2011, 04:35
You'd have to fully upgrade the dermal armor to see any difference, plus the upgrade for EMP / electricity immunity. And even then, you'd gain 2 seconds, at best.

Tverdyj
14th Sep 2011, 04:54
I think I just waited fro her to charge, and then used the minigun(heavy rifle), untill she ran away.

rinse, repeat. on the third try, she died.

mind you, this was on normal difficulty, with dermal armour maxed. I think I took some hypostims first, too to survive teh initial attack.

CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 05:18
There's got to be a cheat! Just for this one boss fight.

xaduha
14th Sep 2011, 05:24
What do you have? Do you have a stun gun?
You must have a save before a fight, surely.

Darthassin
14th Sep 2011, 05:41
You're not screwed.

In the room there are lockers with ammo and granades - it should be enought to take her down.

I beat the whole game without any augs so its possible.

Just at the begining try avoid her tayphoon buy running and hideing behind walls, when she uses it 2 or 3 times she runs away to rechage her batteries.

CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 05:48
>>>In the room there are lockers with ammo and granades - it should be enought to take her down.

In what room? The one we're fighting in?

rokstrombo
14th Sep 2011, 06:12
The Smart Vision aug is very useful against cloaked enemies, in case you haven't tried it yet. EMP grenades are very useful against augmented enemies as well. If you wait for her to uncloak before launching her attack, you can drop a EMP grenade at your feet and run away. This can buy you a few seconds to attack her without fear of being shot. There is a lot of ammo lying around the edges of the room.

rokstrombo
14th Sep 2011, 06:13
>>>In the room there are lockers with ammo and granades - it should be enought to take her down.

In what room? The one we're fighting in?

In the room immediately to the left of the entrance to the arena where you fight Federova. If you're already fighting Federova, then you've come too far.

Darthassin
14th Sep 2011, 06:25
On this arena where you fight her there are at least 4 lockers with ammo and stuff.

MaxxQ1
14th Sep 2011, 06:25
There are also lockers in the room you fight in with ammo and weapons. Also, I think on either side of the entrance to the fighting room, there are generators on the wall you can destroy that will electrify the water she runs through. Of course, you'll *also* get zapped unless you have the EMP aug.

Kodaemon
14th Sep 2011, 06:26
Actually, there are weapon lockers lining the walls in the room the fight takes place in. There's a stun gun and ammo, some mines etc. Should be enough.

DisaFear
14th Sep 2011, 06:29
Interesting, never knew there were lockers in the arena

Jason Parker
14th Sep 2011, 07:45
@OP: It'd be helpful to know what Augs you have: There is no way at that point to not have anything useful for the fight.

As already said there's enough stuff in the arena itself to stock up.

Otherwise her tactic is pretty much to run up close to you and use her typhoon. If you lure her to run in front of those recharging stations at the wall and manage to get away quick enough (which is doable by sprinting) she'll destroy those wall-panels and thus stun herself plus destroy her means of recharging. When she's stunned simply throw frag-nades at her or shoot for her head.

You could also destroy the pannels yourselfes as she recharges if you manage to dodge her long enough for her to do so. And then again attack her. Pretty much stun-guns and EMP-Nades paired with anything doing damage is an easy kill on a boss.

Fluffis
14th Sep 2011, 09:56
Zhao: Take cover from the turrets and shoot Zhao through the glass with the laser rifle.

This. Or, if you don't have the laser rifle, use some form of explosives (grenade launcher if pre-ordered, or rocket launcher) and break the glass. Multiple rounds needed.

CommanderShephard
14th Sep 2011, 22:47
Got the filthy bytch. Using heavy rifle and shotgun. What a nightmare. Augmenting to Typhoon asap.

Pinky_Powers
14th Sep 2011, 23:04
I just took out Barrette on HARD with only three EMPs and a number of DiamondBack rounds to his head... and maybe a grenade. ;)

I'm psyched because this was the first time I've beaten any of the Bosses on HARD. Up til now I've had to lower the settings in order to win against 'em.

Painman
14th Sep 2011, 23:21
I just used stungun + frag mines + combat rifle on him this time around. I didn't figure out how to disarm mines until fairly late into my last playthrough. :o

I'll probably give Federova some similar treatment. Still in TYM right now. Probably an incredible waste of time, but Ive hauled all 9 of the poison gas bottles from the lab area up to the penthouse level for the ambush there. But, that's the screwy kind of stuff I love to do in Deus Ex.

chickensnack
15th Sep 2011, 01:43
So apparently you can use a takedown on Namir. If you try to do it normally on the ground after stunning him he'll just jump over you and push you off. But if you catch Namir as hes trying to climb over the wall you can just 1 HKO him with a takedown. I prefer to use the lethal takedown since he dies anyways :)

tZer
15th Sep 2011, 03:38
Wow, the bosses are not hard at all, even on hard I beat every single one of them under a minute (if not under 30 or 20 seconds...), A single explosion (mine or grenade) plus some revolver rounds to the head and it's over...

nomotog
18th Sep 2011, 20:50
So we all know eidos outsourced the PC version. Well it turns out that they also outsourced the boss fights. Seems odd to me, but what do I know. Just watch the video.

Linky (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/09/18/eidos-montreal-outsourced-deus-ex-39-s-boss-battles.aspx)

VectorM
18th Sep 2011, 20:53
This is new and interesting.

imported_BoB_
18th Sep 2011, 21:03
It's not really new (http://www.metafilter.com/107183/Deus-Ex-HR-the-bosses)...

Ilves
18th Sep 2011, 21:09
More fun, less nodes! :p

Funny how easily you take the programming side of gaming for granted... Must be frustrating for the tech guys.
Too bad a design as cool as Federova┬┤s got so little screen time, really.

Thanks for linking!

JulianP
18th Sep 2011, 21:17
But... why? Why would they outsource something like that? It seems more and more that they had to cut content at such a late stage that they couldn't adequately patch it up. If, say, they had originally planned for multiple ways to deal with the bosses, but then ran out of time, couldn't implement them, and ended up having to hire extra help to make at least something work short of cutting the characters altogether. Or something.

sonicsidewinder
18th Sep 2011, 22:05
After watching them talk up their bosses like that, i'm feeling like maybe I missed something while playing them.

Did I play it wrong or something or were they really that bad?

I will say that when fighting Namir, I died, many, many times.

Due to deciding after the 1st boss to get the typhoon solely for bosses, Yelena was a piss-take, but as soon as i hit Namir, **** hit the fan. No Typhoon. No guns either due to the mind-set of 'okay I will use the typhoon for bosses cus they are a piss take - I don't need guns.'

I left the game for like 4 days out of anger. On coming back though, I couldn't help but feel a sense of genuine challenge...I don't know. Then I got angry again and just brought the turret with me.

I wanna know what these guys have to say about their 'awesome' bosses now.

Romeo
18th Sep 2011, 22:19
Personally... I didn't mind the bossfights. Didn't seem all to different from Gunther and Anna to me. They were a combat-only enemy who could take a beating (I recognize that Gunther and Anna could be avoided, but the actual fighting had only one option available, being direct combat).

I saw this before though, it was on the Electric Playground.