PDA

View Full Version : *spoilers* I finished the game. Story questions!



jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 00:16
So why did the Illuminati kidnap the Sarif scientists? I get that Megan Reed was about to reveal her research that would allow "super compatible" augmentations.
But why did the Illuminati want to stop that? And what did they end up having the scientists work on instead in Singapore? The kill switch technology? Did the "Jensen DNA" based technology ever get worked on?

Also, Hugh Darrow, Bill Taggart, and Zhao were all members of the Illuminati, is that right? Is Taggart actually against augmentations, or is he just for government regulation of the industry, so that the Illuminati can more easily control it?

Hugh Darrow was a member, but he betrayed them, right? He manipulated the kill switch technology towards his anti-augmentation goals.

Was Zhao basically on Taggart's side? I never met Taggart on the Panchea, so I never heard what he had to say...

Piflik
28th Aug 2011, 00:22
They first worked on the signal that introduced the glitches and made people go to LIMB clinics to get the manipulatable biochip. Secondly they are working on Nano Augmentation (as known from the first game) and Megan's research was the base for that.

Boradam
28th Aug 2011, 01:03
So why did the Illuminati kidnap the Sarif scientists? I get that Megan Reed was about to reveal her research that would allow "super compatible" augmentations.
But why did the Illuminati want to stop that? And what did they end up having the scientists work on instead in Singapore? The kill switch technology? Did the "Jensen DNA" based technology ever get worked on?

Also, Hugh Darrow, Bill Taggart, and Zhao were all members of the Illuminati, is that right? Is Taggart actually against augmentations, or is he just for government regulation of the industry, so that the Illuminati can more easily control it?

Hugh Darrow was a member, but he betrayed them, right? He manipulated the kill switch technology towards his anti-augmentation goals.

Was Zhao basically on Taggart's side? I never met Taggart on the Panchea, so I never heard what he had to say...

Taggart said he never wanted to ban Augmentation outright and that he didn't hate it, he just wanted to regulate it so humanity wouldn't become out of the Illuminati's control or so that they would be able to resist.

Hugh Darrow exploited the augmentations and wanted to erase it because he himself was unable to witness and experience his augmentations personally as his body rejected the augments and he was not able to have them installed because his DNA wasn't compatable.

He was selfish and was tired of seeing others experience something he created, and eventually he also saw that his creation could be used for personnal gain and that it could be exploited. So in the end, it was selfishness and realization that caused him to betray the Illuminati.

OhSorryOldHorse
28th Aug 2011, 01:35
Maybe it's just me, but it feels like they barely touched on the Illuminati and I feel as though there's more to them then whats in the game. I played the first Deus Ex and they featured quite a bit alongside MJ12, and I also read somewhere that this game would set up UNATCO being formed and the Statue of Liberty being attacked. So when that wasn't in the game, I was a little disappointed. *shrug*

sea
28th Aug 2011, 02:07
Maybe it's just me, but it feels like they barely touched on the Illuminati and I feel as though there's more to them then whats in the game. I played the first Deus Ex and they featured quite a bit alongside MJ12, and I also read somewhere that this game would set up UNATCO being formed and the Statue of Liberty being attacked. So when that wasn't in the game, I was a little disappointed. *shrug*
I get the feeling that something like close to half this game was cut. The appearance of Bob Page in the opening and during the teaser at the end, references to VersaLife, the short lead-up to Picus and the Eliza reveal, etc., the appearance and subsequent inconsequentiality of RX-84 (a reference I didn't even get until I replayed the original game and realised that was the FEMA detention camp mentioned by Simons), the complete lack of background information on any of the augmented agents and their completely one-note personalities without any growth or development, to me it all feels like they wanted to make a more expansive and well-paced story but had to throw a lot of ideas out. As it stands the current story is pretty solid, but I don't feel the motives of all characters were clearly explained, and some of the ideas introduced didn't have time to develop and flourish.

Also, turning every augmented person into a mindless crazy zombie and then ending the game with a big boss fight against a human-powered computer is amazingly derpy. Not only does it not really mesh with anything seen in the rest of the game, it feels clumsy and blunt-force, as if we wouldn't get that augmentation could be exploited unless we saw augmented people going insane and killing everyone, and Cute Innocent Japanese Schoolgirls crying for ten minutes in an over-extended boss fight (or more like a button-pressing, robot-killing fight, but whatever).

OhSorryOldHorse
28th Aug 2011, 02:19
Alot of the game was cut because according to the developers it wouldve been 50-60 hours long...which I dont get, cuz that would be awesome

Zalocx
28th Aug 2011, 02:26
So why did the Illuminati kidnap the Sarif scientists? I get that Megan Reed was about to reveal her research that would allow "super compatible" augmentations.
But why did the Illuminati want to stop that? And what did they end up having the scientists work on instead in Singapore? The kill switch technology? Did the "Jensen DNA" based technology ever get worked on?


I don't think Bob'o and pals wanted to stop Megan's research as much as make sure only THEY had access to it, from what I understood they were trying to refine the "Jensen DNA" in Singapore even more than it was in Adam's body, alongside working on things like the kill-switch. As for whether or not the Jensen DNA tech was ever worked on: Where do you think the Denton cell line came from?



Also, Hugh Darrow, Bill Taggart, and Zhao were all members of the Illuminati, is that right? Is Taggart actually against augmentations, or is he just for government regulation of the industry, so that the Illuminati can more easily control it?


Taggart was trying to limit the augmentation tech available to the masses, to ensure the Illuminati controlled most of it and not renegades that wouldn't play by Everett or Page's rules like Sarif.



Hugh Darrow was a member, but he betrayed them, right? He manipulated the kill switch technology towards his anti-augmentation goals.


Yes, because he could not augment himself due to bad genetics he lashed out against his own creations




Was Zhao basically on Taggart's side? I never met Taggart on the Panchea, so I never heard what he had to say...


Not sure by what you mean by "Taggart's side" but she was definably an Illuminati member, perhaps even a member of Page's inner circle within the Illuminati, as evidenced by the fact that we DID see an MJ12 statue in the Montreal base underneath a plaque of the All Seeing Eye

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 03:44
I can understand why the OP was asking these questions. If the devs are reading this I'd want them to know I liked the game very much, and it felt like a true Deus Ex sequel. But I felt that much of the story wasn't setup properly for the direction it eventually ended up in.

The fact that Megans research had just about nothing to do with what they had her working on while kidnapped, or the rest of the plot. They should could have kept the current story if they had simply setup the biochip research that became the important part of the climax. You spend most of the game thinking they were killed/kidnapped because of that special DNA research, but once you find them it is all of a sudden this 'oh, this biochip thing I only just learned about is what this is actually about'

Bob Page… or rather… the complete lack of Bob Page was odd. It was pure fan service to have him in the intro. And then the enjoyable… but fan service once again post credits ending. Along with a couple emails.

The combo of the DNA research = no aug rejection, Bob Page made the game feel like it might have something to do with Neuropozine, and Versalife trying to control humanity through Neuropozine. Obviously losing that control could piss off Versalife. And Jensens DNA was the key to breaking this control, and thus starting a revolution. All of these things were setup repeatedly yet Neuropozine had nothing to do with the story. Jensens much focused on 'lack of need' for it, and the 'revolutionary' DNA research based on him ended up having very little to do with the story itself.

Subplots were left hanging such as Jensens past. Setup, but not completed or explained. In terms of the human powered computer, another thing that should have been discussed more, or setup in one way or another, so it didn't feel tacked on later.

These issues made much of the story feel like a setup for the inevitable sequel set in 2034 or whenever. Like the DNA research was actually what DX4 will be about, the Dentons and all that.

Despite saying this, it is more of a 'kick even more ass next time, never stop self-improving' critique. I was just amazed at the end of this game, I just sat back and said to myself 'that was awesome'.

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 03:49
OK so what was Zhao trying to do at the end? What was so great about that machine that she wanted to merge with it?

sea
28th Aug 2011, 03:55
OK so what was Zhao trying to do at the end? What was so great about that machine that she wanted to merge with it?
It'd basically give her control over a really powerful computer. And. Uh. Monitor oceanic conditions really well? WE HAVE TO STOP HER

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 03:55
Also, that one "terrorist" who shot himself in the head in the beginning of the game, what was that all about again? I forgot what the terrorist was trying to achieve before Adam showed up.

Fuzzman
28th Aug 2011, 04:25
The fact that Megans research had just about nothing to do with what they had her working on while kidnapped, or the rest of the plot. They should could have kept the current story if they had simply setup the biochip research that became the important part of the climax. You spend most of the game thinking they were killed/kidnapped because of that special DNA research, but once you find them it is all of a sudden this 'oh, this biochip thing I only just learned about is what this is actually about'
The way I see it, the team was kidnapped to both put a stop to the DNA research outside of Illuminati control, as well as to put the team to work on the biochip project. Megan's DNA research also--judging by the post-credits scene--clearly leads into the nano-tech/nano-aug research.


Bob Page… or rather… the complete lack of Bob Page was odd. It was pure fan service to have him in the intro. And then the enjoyable… but fan service once again post credits ending. Along with a couple emails.
This is quite possible. However, I'd like to think that it's merely an introduction, as a way of saying he is present and influencing events, though not quite the major player he is soon to become.


The combo of the DNA research = no aug rejection, Bob Page made the game feel like it might have something to do with Neuropozine, and Versalife trying to control humanity through Neuropozine. Obviously losing that control could piss off Versalife. And Jensens DNA was the key to breaking this control, and thus starting a revolution. All of these things were setup repeatedly yet Neuropozine had nothing to do with the story. Jensens much focused on 'lack of need' for it, and the 'revolutionary' DNA research based on him ended up having very little to do with the story itself.
Again, I see Jensen's unique nature as a precursor to the nano-tech augmentations, but his lack of rejection of mechanical augmentations poses a risk to the Illuminati. If Taggart's actions and conversations are any indication, the Illuminati do not want just anyone and everyone to be able to receive augmentations--they would rather control who can receive them.


Subplots were left hanging such as Jensens past. Setup, but not completed or explained.
I agree, I would have liked to see more of his past. However, I imagine the most significant details were left a mystery so that they might be explored in a sequel. I would keep my eyes and ears open for word of a sequel over the next couple of years.


In terms of the human powered computer, another thing that should have been discussed more, or setup in one way or another, so it didn't feel tacked on later.
It did feel a bit tacked on, but I wonder if it was simply meant as a nod or precursor to what Bob Page would later attempt.


These issues made much of the story feel like a setup for the inevitable sequel set in 2034 or whenever. Like the DNA research was actually what DX4 will be about, the Dentons and all that.
This seems to be the case. I have no problem with this, as DXHR was fun, interesting, and clever in its own right.


I was just amazed at the end of this game, I just sat back and said to myself 'that was awesome'.
Hear hear.

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 04:27
It was something to do with the Typhoon. Pretty much TYM wanted it. It seemed to be more to do with corporate warfare than the grand conspiracy. Again... kind of didn't relate to the larger plot as a whole or to the original kidnapping/attack.

The beginning of this game feels like it is part of different story then what happens in the end. Half way through it transforms. Kind of like two stories mashed into one. Both were cool, but one was a setup in the beginning and then canned (DNA Research, Jensens involvement, not needing Neuropozine), while the other wasn't setup all that much and served as the end (biochip zombies, controlling global warming reversal computer, Darrons involvement)

I experienced this same "so what the hell was the whole beginning about? How did it relate to what ended up happening?" once I completed the game.

LandHawk
28th Aug 2011, 04:33
OK so what was Zhao trying to do at the end? What was so great about that machine that she wanted to merge with it?

She was going to use the Hyron project (an incredibly powerful quantum computer) to shut down the sequel and edit the message to the Illuminati's benefit (I know you might be asking 'why didn't she just push the button', but presumably she didn't have the Picus AI's help.)

Personally the Hyron would've made a lot more sense if not for the AI being revealed sooner before. If the Deus Ex timeline wasn't quite to the point of having fully functional AIs, a super-computer controlled by human drones would make a lot more sense.

EricaLeeV
28th Aug 2011, 04:35
I thought the ending took a hard left turn for me as well...most of the things that happened in the end just seemed to come out of nowhere with no real lead up to them.

Like some others here has stated, there are a lot of questions still left open about characters themselves (along with the plotline itself). We never really got to find out more about the actual relationship between Adam and Megan (for instance why did they break up? Did it have to do with the secrecy from Megan's end? Did she leave him because she didn't want to hurt him anymore?); then again I may have just missed this stuff in game. Adam's past is still left a HUGE mystery to as is the whole 'why would White Helix even make someone like that' thing.

Many characters just came and went with little to no development (such as the main villains). I read the Icarus Effect novel prior to this game and while it fleshes out the Tyrants a little there is still much to be desired. The Icarus Effect also mentions a helpful 'hacker' named Janus many times and while this character may be Eliza this is left mostly unclear. I assumed that Eliza would take the identity of Janus helping Adam throughout the game (much like the AIs did in the original game) but she really only presented herself twice though she states she has been watching Adam for a long time.

Many missed opportunities it seems, but if there is a sequel maybe we will understand more about what happened here. I am particularly curious about Adam's past and would like to see more of him but with the endings being such as they are I am unsure that he will star in future sequels...

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 04:36
A story shouldn't be setting up elements of another story that we don't experience. So while I love DX1, this DXHR story shouldn't have such a huge importance on the 'great discovery' if it doesn't have that much to do with what the plot is actually about. The emphasis on the beginning should have been about the a biochip discovery or something, with a subplot of DNA research that could run through the whole story and into Jensens past. The subplot could have a small payoff in the end relating to the Dentons/Nano augs or something.

Movies mistakenly do this all the time. Tron Legacy just did it, spending the whole time trying to 'create a franchise' rather then simply tell one story the best it could be told. Matrix Reloaded did this as well, just cutting off half way through, a whole movie of 'setup'. DXHR doesn't go that far, but this kind of 'franchise' building leaves audience members going 'huh?'. The OP is an example of this I'd say.

Regardless, I felt DXHR overcame this issues that I see in the story, and had a whole lot of awesome elements that made it interesting anyway. I was playing DX again damn it, I'm smiling even now. I just hope in the next one, there are less setups for a story I'm not currently experiencing. =)

Fuzzman
28th Aug 2011, 04:40
The Typhoon was a bit of a red herring, in that it wasn't a phony issue, but it wasn't the primary and underlying motivation to attack Sarif. The real motive was Megan's DNA research.

Darrow's plot was a separate situation that arose alongside and against the Illuminati's plans. Darrow essentially went rogue.

Interweaving the different plots and sub-plots was subtle and clever, though I can understand how it might be confusing.

Fuzzman
28th Aug 2011, 04:46
A story shouldn't be setting up elements of another story that we don't experience. So while I love DX1, this DXHR story shouldn't have such a huge importance on the 'great discovery' if it doesn't have that much to do with what the plot is actually about. The emphasis on the beginning should have been about the a biochip discovery or something, with a subplot of DNA research that could run through the whole story and into Jensens past. The subplot could have a small payoff in the end relating to the Dentons/Nano augs or something.

Movies mistakenly do this all the time. Tron Legacy just did it, spending the whole time trying to 'create a franchise' rather then simply tell one story the best it could be told. Matrix Reloaded did this as well, just cutting off half way through, a whole movie of 'setup'. DXHR doesn't go that far, but this kind of 'franchise' building leaves audience members going 'huh?'. The OP is an example of this I'd say.

Regardless, I felt DXHR overcame this issues that I see in the story, and had a whole lot of awesome elements that made it interesting anyway. I was playing DX again damn it, I'm smiling even now. I just hope in the next one, there are less setups for a story I'm not currently experiencing. =)

DXHR accomplishes its own story as well as setting up a future story.

The overarching plot centers around Adam's search for the truth of who attacked Sarif, what the motive was, and why he became the way he is because of it. The game succeeds in identifying the conspirators and the general motive, as well as having Adam come to terms--to a degree--with his condition.

The unanswered questions allow for at least one more future installment.

Enemy242
28th Aug 2011, 08:01
I can understand how people would be confused by a lot of things, but honestly I think it's more a case of people not paying full attention/exploring the entire game than the sequel bait everyone is claiming. There are tonss of emails and ebooks and little nuances that flesh out the game the world, and if you miss those then yes, you do miss a lot of things.

I doubt you're supposed to know EVERY LAST THING about Adam, though a lot of it is revealed. You can find it in the background stuff that Sarif digs up if you win in the social battle, and it tells a bit about his past, but some of it is left for you to think about and draw your own conclusions from.

The story going in a different direction isn't surprising as it would be boring as hell if the entire story focused on ONE thing and had no changes, no nothing. just oh cool adam, you found megan and killed the guy who tried to steal the typhoon, the day is saved and humanity will prosper! that's not what it's about as the different subplots and strands all show different views on augmentation/the future/humanity and the conspiracies twist and turn as things aren't often as they seem, especially not in a deus ex game. It felt exactly right as when they wanted to implant the new chip in my head i thought hmm no, this seems strange, i smell something fishy, and then you learn it was a plot to control the whole time i went "yep, this is deus ex". deus ex starts out in new york and ends up in area 51, shooting aliens and mutants that are running around a facility while you have 3 people screaming in your ear their agenda and you've just nuked a government facility. i think human revolution's ending section felt exactly right considering all that and mind control brain chips is a bit more believable than aliens and mutant lizards.

i'd say if someone is confused instead of going to the internet and asking other people, play through the game again. read all the emails/ebooks, talk to everyone, do all the side quests, think about what's going on, think about the world, think about our world, and maybe things will make a bit more sense. don't expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter and don't expect the game to reveal every single bit of every character/every situation clear as day. it's a game in the realm of the deus ex universe commenting on humanity/augmentation, not a biography for some characters where you're supposed to be told exactly everything about everyone who makes even a remote appearance (WHY DIDN'T I GET TO MEET LAZARUS, HE'S INVOLVED IN THE GAME AND HAS A BIG INVOLVEMENT, I DEMAND MORE INFO ABOUT HIM AND WANT TO TALK TO HIM AND HAVE A SOCIAL BATTLE IN HIS SECRET BASE WHICH IS A MINI HUB OK GAWD).

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 18:26
It seems to me that some story elements of the game are locked behind computers or behind certain social interactions, and that if the player misses these things when they reach the end of the game, then the game's story comes off as somewhat broken. For example, when I was escaping Hengsha, the young Tracer Tong escapes on a boat. The thing is... the game never mentioned him at all, besides some small mention in a computer email I found. And yet... Adam mentions his escape to Tong over the radio, as if both had a conversation about Tracer beforehand.

I had never heard the two talk about Tracer Tong. At all. I failed the social battle with Tong Sr at the bar in the Hive, and the only interaction I had with Tong Sr. was when I found him with a Sarif arm attached to him. He never talked about Tracer. So when Tracer hops onto the boat and waves at me with a smile, I'm like... "what the heck is this all about?"

I don't know about you guys, but I think the game's story should be solid even if you fail every social battle, and ignore every computer email possible. Instead the game seems happy to just let you coast through it however you want, even if that breaks a lot of the game's storytelling in the process.

Badly Browned
28th Aug 2011, 18:47
Alot of the game was cut because according to the developers it wouldve been 50-60 hours long...which I dont get, cuz that would be awesome

Or, they cut it out so they could charge for DLC later.

Pete278
28th Aug 2011, 19:05
I think you guys are selling Hugh Darrow a bit short, he's insane, sure, but it was hardly done out of selfish reasons. He thought that sending all the augmented people insane was a good way to let people know to never touch technology the Illuminati could use to control them ever again. This may not be the best way of going about it, but it certainly wasn't 'baww I can't have a metal leg screw everyone that can walk properly'.

Enemy242
28th Aug 2011, 19:16
It seems to me that some story elements of the game are locked behind computers or behind certain social interactions, and that if the player misses these things when they reach the end of the game, then the game's story comes off as somewhat broken. For example, when I was escaping Hengsha, the young Tracer Tong escapes on a boat. The thing is... the game never mentioned him at all, besides some small mention in a computer email I found. And yet... Adam mentions his escape to Tong over the radio, as if both had a conversation about Tracer beforehand.

I had never heard the two talk about Tracer Tong. At all. I failed the social battle with Tong Sr at the bar in the Hive, and the only interaction I had with Tong Sr. was when I found him with a Sarif arm attached to him. He never talked about Tracer. So when Tracer hops onto the boat and waves at me with a smile, I'm like... "what the heck is this all about?"

I don't know about you guys, but I think the game's story should be solid even if you fail every social battle, and ignore every computer email possible. Instead the game seems happy to just let you coast through it however you want, even if that breaks a lot of the game's storytelling in the process.

the problem with that is if they made it so everything was revealed while doing nothing, then the emails would have no purpose and they'd have to write an entire set of new emails for everything, and they do have limited time.

keep in mind this IS a deus ex game, it's implied that people are supposed to attempt to immerse themselves in some of the game world and try to find out whats going on, not just run through it like crysis or something. even if i hadn't done the tong mission, the situation with his son is mentioned on many different computers and you can understand whats going on from there. i keep hearing a lot of people complaining about story/continuity issues and then they say things like they just ran through it or didn't think about things, and i think a lot of the problems have more to do with the players than the game itself. this game is deep and layered, and with games like this you have to go back and play multiple times to get the full effect if you didn't 100% explore everything the first time (hell i explored everything and i'm still going to go back a few more times) and that's the beauty of this kind of game vs call of duty where you go through it once doing the bare minimum and that's it.

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 19:20
I don't know about you guys, but I think the game's story should be solid even if you fail every social battle, and ignore every computer email possible. Instead the game seems happy to just let you coast through it however you want, even if that breaks a lot of the game's storytelling in the process.

I agree with this. Again... I loved this game, but twists and turns in a story are far different then a poorly setup story. All of the story elements that make up the climax come out of nowhere about 75% into the game and have no real relation to anything conveyed to the player earlier. And everything that was setup earlier is mostly useless and discarded. That is just poor story telling, even if the ideas are cool. I for one wasn't confused, it was all very clear to me. I was just noticing these issues regardless of how cool everything was.

I never upgraded to the new chip either because it was fishy, and TYM was the one supplying the new chips. I won all of the social battles (except for Hugh Darrows assistant lady concerning the data chip) I scrapped every side quest and email clean, just as I did 11 years ago with the original.

The biochip should have been setup in the beginning, but we simply wouldn't know its importance. And Megan's research should have actually meant something to the plot if they are going to so heavily feature it. Otherwise don't make it so prominent. It is probably just a setup for the sequel which is bad story telling. It could still be a setup AND be useful to DXHR story but it isn't. Sure the Illuminati essentially wanted to prevent free flowing augs, but that was just kind of brushed over later in the game, and doesn't justify such prominence.

If you're 'not supposed to know everything about Jensens past' then it shouldn't be discussed all that much and left hanging, and the research based on his DNA shouldn't have been so prominently featured at the beginning of the story. Since it was hardly hardly a twist when it was 'revealed' to be his DNA, and that reveal had nothing to do with the plot in the climax anyway. It was just a kind of 'oh yeah, that was your DNA we used even though it has nothing to do with anything right now'. If it is being saved for the sequel it is just useless 'franchise building'.

There is nothing confusing about this… it is just seems to be franchise building taking priority over proper story telling. Yet… I still loved the game anyway, they did so many things CORRECTLY, and enjoyed most of the writing. EM has my vote in so many ways. I'd just hope they could adjust this issue in the sequel.

Krelokk
28th Aug 2011, 19:25
keep in mind this IS a deus ex game, it's implied that people are supposed to attempt to immerse themselves in some of the game world and try to find out whats going on, not just run through it like crysis or something. even if i hadn't done the tong mission, the situation with his son is mentioned on many different computers and you can understand whats going on from there. i keep hearing a lot of people complaining about story/continuity issues and then they say things like they just ran through it or didn't think about things, and i think a lot of the problems have more to do with the players than the game itself. this game is deep and layered, and with games like this you have to go back and play multiple times to get the full effect if you didn't 100% explore everything the first time (hell i explored everything and i'm still going to go back a few more times) and that's the beauty of this kind of game vs call of duty where you go through it once doing the bare minimum and that's it.

I agree partially. Depth is a amazing, the emails and books should be world building elements and further information. But important plot elements shouldn't be regulated to emails. I didn't find DXHR did this all that much though, so it isn't really what I'm talking about.

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 19:50
I feel like some of the Bioware games like Mass Effect, KOTOR 1, and Jade Empire did storytelling right. There is a lot of background information you can pick up optionally, but if even if you skip everything, and no matter what choices you make, you still get a coherent and solid story.

Here, there is way too much stuff that is optional and to the side. It's as if the entire story was meant for the completionists who do all the sidequests, hack all the computers, and do everything. It seems like it only makes good sense for the completionists. I failed the David Sarif social challenge, and now I hear on this forum that he apparently says some pretty interesting stuff that would've raised my opinion of this game's story.

Another problem, at the end of the game, I can choose to skip talking to Sarif and Taggart, and just choose between the Darrow and Self Destruct endings. In case you didn't know, if you do not pursue the Sarif/Taggart secondary objectives at the end of the game, you do not have the option of hitting the Sarif or Taggart buttons on the consoles in front of the Eliza video. ( I could not find Taggart on Panchea.. I hit the button on the big elevator, and the game warned me that I could not continue back. I clicked yes, GUESSING that Taggart would not be past this point, but I could not be 100% sure. To me the game should not have me guessing like that. So at the end I was not able to choose a Taggart option for the ending.)

To me the game should've forced the player to talk to Sarif and Taggart. Allowing players to skip these secondary objectives leaves the player with a much shallower end game scenario, and a less satisfying conclusion.

jerryku7
28th Aug 2011, 19:56
I noticed there is a Security Level 5 computer on David Sarif's desk. Anything interesting in there?

The game seemed to imply Sarif was kinda deserving of suspicion, plus my memories of Deus Ex made me untrusting towards my employer too. But I guess Sarif is legit? I kept expecting something dirty to pop up on him, but nothing ever showed up for me.

agarath
29th Aug 2011, 05:52
Personally I think Bob Page is the Illuminati, or the front man for the Illuminati. At the into, when he speaks not only do the other 4 in that conversation stop to listen, Bob does so with an authority that is plain and clear to see. The others are apparently reporting Bob is the Coordinator. Everyone listens and his is the last word, the one that people follow for direction. The text on the screen Bob is replying to says "remote access Sarif industries that makes me think that there was a mole inside SI. I think that mole was the tech goof (whatshisname), but we also know that David Sarif knew about the hacked data stream. I actually suspected Malik too, but I probably am a little paranoid (just around the edges), however killing her in that fashion that she dies in was awful convenient (even if you can save her).

I'd have to make it part of the agenda to hack all of the doors and computers at SI before I'd know for sure. Maybe the next play through.

The kidnap may have been a smoke screen diversion or it might have been a piece of a mosaic of chaos. That chaos being a series of multiple things going on in a variety of different directions; yet all have one underlying theme. CONTROL of humanity. Remember traditional Illuminati conspiracy theory has a great deal to do with population modification & control. Diffuse, distract, delay.

Personally I think the Illuminati wanted Jensen and/or his DNA. Meghan is the vehicle to getting that either way. Jensens boss had been leaking info as we know and one of the talking heads acknowledges that much.

I think the story is open ended enough to not only let you draw a multiple of conclusions (and hopefully guarantee at least one or more play through), it leaves more than enough to build sequels. The two most important things on a game creator/developers mind. How do I draw you in totally, and how do I make you want more enough to buy the next one.

Lets just hope they don't :nut: it all up like *someone* did to Duke Nukem.

If none of my answers suffice please feel free to :mad2:, I am too old and lazy to be bothered.

Ag

AsukaoYl
29th Aug 2011, 06:35
Alot of the game was cut because according to the developers it wouldve been 50-60 hours long...which I dont get, cuz that would be awesome

Where exactly did you get this information from....Source please.

vallux
29th Aug 2011, 09:34
Personally I think Bob Page is the Illuminati, or the front man for the Illuminati. At the into, when he speaks not only do the other 4 in that conversation stop to listen, Bob does so with an authority that is plain and clear to see. The others are apparently reporting Bob is the Coordinator. Everyone listens and his is the last word, the one that people follow for direction. The text on the screen Bob is replying to says "remote access Sarif industries that makes me think that there was a mole inside SI. I think that mole was the tech goof (whatshisname), but we also know that David Sarif knew about the hacked data stream. I actually suspected Malik too, but I probably am a little paranoid (just around the edges), however killing her in that fashion that she dies in was awful convenient (even if you can save her).

I'd have to make it part of the agenda to hack all of the doors and computers at SI before I'd know for sure. Maybe the next play through.

The kidnap may have been a smoke screen diversion or it might have been a piece of a mosaic of chaos. That chaos being a series of multiple things going on in a variety of different directions; yet all have one underlying theme. CONTROL of humanity. Remember traditional Illuminati conspiracy theory has a great deal to do with population modification & control. Diffuse, distract, delay.

Personally I think the Illuminati wanted Jensen and/or his DNA. Meghan is the vehicle to getting that either way. Jensens boss had been leaking info as we know and one of the talking heads acknowledges that much.

I think the story is open ended enough to not only let you draw a multiple of conclusions (and hopefully guarantee at least one or more play through), it leaves more than enough to build sequels. The two most important things on a game creator/developers mind. How do I draw you in totally, and how do I make you want more enough to buy the next one.

Lets just hope they don't :nut: it all up like *someone* did to Duke Nukem.

If none of my answers suffice please feel free to :mad2:, I am too old and lazy to be bothered.

Ag

Sarif might be suspicious as ****, but he is genuinely concerned about the wellbeing of both his company and Adam (+ staff). He has made some poor choices without thinking them through.

Yes, Adam's DNA is key to making the augmentations work. I really don't know what to think about Adam though. It seems, that even though Megan and her team were kidnapped to go work at Omega Ranch they weren't really in any hurry. And Megan, my God that woman is shady. Considering that her ex-boyfriend almost died trying to save her, she really doesn't seem too excited to be rescued and does that "but they forced me to do it" routine.

Bob Page is interesting. He seems to be working for Illuminati, but not for much longer. He obviously had aspirations of his own at this point.

Also, other things worth mentioning. Pritchard is a total bro, and Malik is cool as hell.

Krelokk
29th Aug 2011, 14:28
Another problem, at the end of the game, I can choose to skip talking to Sarif and Taggart, and just choose between the Darrow and Self Destruct endings. In case you didn't know, if you do not pursue the Sarif/Taggart secondary objectives at the end of the game, you do not have the option of hitting the Sarif or Taggart buttons on the consoles in front of the Eliza video. ( I could not find Taggart on Panchea.. I hit the button on the big elevator, and the game warned me that I could not continue back. I clicked yes, GUESSING that Taggart would not be past this point, but I could not be 100% sure. To me the game should not have me guessing like that. So at the end I was not able to choose a Taggart option for the ending.)

To me the game should've forced the player to talk to Sarif and Taggart. Allowing players to skip these secondary objectives leaves the player with a much shallower end game scenario, and a less satisfying conclusion.

WOW, I didn't know that. I got to the elevator as well having never found those two characters, I did a big, WTF? I decided to go back as I was surprised I had not found them yet even though I had been looking. It was one of the few instances in the entire game in which a way point marker wasn't displayed to show a possible side mission. Just two random radio signals from Taggart and Sarif, and then nothing. I was even looking for signs leading to 'the data room' or wherever Sarif was before moving on but couldn't find them. Upon returning I figured it out.

That is something they should fix in a patch.

Tusc
29th Aug 2011, 23:22
Is anyone else pissed that the ending came down to pushing one of three buttons? And then telling people the truth results in humanity agreeing to go back to the stone age? Really? They phoned these endings in. The whole plot was pretty thin, emails and all. I expected better. No difficult decisions during the game, no consequences or plot shifts because of any decisions...nothing. Three buttons at the end, or blow yourself up, because that will solve the world's problems. Just a big F-you.

Discoman
30th Aug 2011, 00:44
I found alot of the plot to be unfleshed. I was pretty shocked when Adam's backstory sidequest ended with him putting a guard detail on Michelle. There's also newspapers mentioning terrorism and the UN holding meetings, so I presumed we'd see Unacto form (Which was rumored around very early development) It also seemed odd that we knew nothing of the Tyrants.

If there's one thing that I find disappointing in the game, its that they alluded to things all too often. I think the fact that Adam was patient X was supposed to be a big twist, but it was so painfully obvious for majority of the game. I waited for them to finally reveal it, but they waited till Singapore. Really? Sarif admitted the existence of the Illuminati, but wouldn't say what Megan's research was. The Biochip thing was also pretty obvious, they even had one of the Harvesters spell it out for you. Zeke's brother being Taggart's right hand? Well they both look the same, and there's more hints in conversation.

There really wasn't many choices in the game and they didn't influence much. IE Sarif tells me to plant evidence on Taggart's computer, and I do, but no one mentions it. Then I keep his 2nd in command alive, and besides 1000xp, I don't get to see him on trial showing that Taggart was involved. Alot of these things weren't followed through.

Also, did anyone else find it very surprising that Megan was suddenly willing to work on the Grey Death for Page? Felt out of place.

jerryku7
30th Aug 2011, 03:04
I really wish Darrow had brought a small army of Illuminati soldiers loyal to him... onto Panchaea.
Unaugmented soldiers.

That way, you'd have to contend with the zombie people, Darrow's soldiers, and more. Also, I don't recall seeing any security bots on the complex. There should've been a ton of 'em I think!

The ending was very anti-climactic. The whole Panchaea zombie stuff reminds me of Ghost in the Shell Innocence, if anyone has seen that film. That film ends on a complex that is in the middle of the ocean too, and there are tons of zombie-like enemies there too.

DeusEdt
30th Aug 2011, 03:21
I really wish Darrow had brought a small army of Illuminati soldiers loyal to him... onto Panchaea.
Unaugmented soldiers.

That way, you'd have to contend with the zombie people, Darrow's soldiers, and more. Also, I don't recall seeing any security bots on the complex. There should've been a ton of 'em I think!

The ending was very anti-climactic. The whole Panchaea zombie stuff reminds me of Ghost in the Shell Innocence, if anyone has seen that film. That film ends on a complex that is in the middle of the ocean too, and there are tons of zombie-like enemies there too.

Totally agree with you, the whole of Panchaea felt like an epilogue, there was no real challenge. The game could've done without introducing the zombie characters at all.

I also want to know -plotwise- if there was any reason the 'zombies' only attacked Adam and not each other, or whether it's just a convenient plot device.

El Padrino
30th Aug 2011, 04:41
And Megan, my God that woman is shady. Considering that her ex-boyfriend almost died trying to save her, she really doesn't seem too excited to be rescued and does that "but they forced me to do it" routine.

What I really want to know is what the hell was up with the way she said "Jaron, is that you?" when you walk in during your little reunion? Jaron shot Adam in the face, plus kidnapping her and murdering all those Sarif scientists, and that's the tone she takes with him? What the hell, Megan!?


Also, did anyone else find it very surprising that Megan was suddenly willing to work on the Grey Death for Page? Felt out of place.

Well, the "nanite virus chimera" and the "hybrid project." That says grays (and greasels, I guess), not gray death. What really felt out of place for me was the mere fact that she went to work for Page rather than stay with Sarif, especially considering the fact that Sarif sent Adam to rescue her and her team and it was Adam's DNA that helped her make that breakthrough of hers.

Discoman
30th Aug 2011, 10:10
What really felt out of place for me was the mere fact that she went to work for Page rather than stay with Sarif, especially considering the fact that Sarif sent Adam to rescue her and her team and it was Adam's DNA that helped her make that breakthrough of hers.
It bothers me too, but the game allows the player to kill Sarif at the end regardless of what ending you pick. Then there's the 'lets all die' ending. So, I can understand that they had to make sure it made sense for all story choices.

sou1seeker
12th Sep 2011, 13:21
i'm sorry for interruption, i'm trying to find out - when all this story began? i mean the Age of Augmentation, the new era in human evolution. Hugh Darrow is the father of bio-mechanical augmentation technology. when did that happen? is it this research that brought him Nobel Award? is it mentioned somewhere which of his researches started the Age of Augmentation and when? sorry if it was mentioned in game or in other threads and for my english

GreasedScotsman
12th Sep 2011, 18:51
I think Vallux and El Padrino have hit something... I also felt like Megan was either a victim with a severe case of Stockholm syndrome ("Jaron, is that you?") or was in far deeper than she ever let on. The special clip at the end of the credits pretty much solidifies the latter or a terrible case of the former, as she's quite friendly with Mr. Page.

The attack on Sarif HQ may have been real, like she said, but I believe she had foreknowledge of it. She was at least an unwilling partner at that time. Her uneasiness in the first elevator ride seems based on more than just the exploitation of Adam's DNA as the key to her research. Edit: some incorrect info removed.

As for the ties between Adam's DNA and the seeming shift in plot to the Biochip focus, I think the backstory quest in Detroit 2 and the social face-off you have with Sarif earlier sheds some light there, namely that Adam's biological parents are either dead or didn't exist beyond sperm and egg donors. Sarif's background check on Adam confirms at the very least that Adam was an experiment essentially bred to be the next stage of evolution--or at least a human that wouldn't reject augmentations. I personally would not be surprised if Sarif had some knowledge of this, given that his company stands to dominate the market if it is the one to push "augs for all." I don't personally think Sarif's motives are all happy and altruistic--money and power are certainly parts of this move. He's a business man, through and through.

At the start of the game (opening cinematic), Sarif has decided to share augmentation tech and truly push forward with this idea, which is completely counter to the Illuminati desire to oversee and control augmentation technology. Clearly Sarif is an Illuminatus but has "gone off the reservation," which is why I think that the attack on Sarif HQ happened in the first place--the Illuminati were trying to protect their interests.

If any of this is true or correct, then the shift between Adam's DNA and the development of a biochip makes sense: Everything is about power and control.

Adam's DNA is a threat to power and control of the biomod industry because it would allow relatively open access to the next stage of evolution--prolonged augmentation would no longer be a privilege of the elite. Further, the tainted biochip is simply a method by which the elite can maintain power and control over those who do become augmented. The Illuminati knew the day would come when augmentations became household commodities... Sarif merely stepped up the timetable before the biochip was complete (again, opening cinematic references this).

Darrow's story thread fits in perfectly, too, when viewing through this lens of power and control. After creating something that should have helped mankind rise to a better existence, he is jaded, not only personally by his own body's rejection of his incredible invention, but also through the realization that he's created a means for a whole new era of human enslavement--a reality he fears so greatly, it pushes him past the brink of sanity.

What Megan says after you've killed Namir is probably true: Darrow was only going along with the scheme only to make sure it never succeeds... but his answer to preventing the enslavement of the human race is to cause such a calamity that humans will forever fear any sort of human+ science. Darrow is also an Illuminatus, but rejects the elite's quest for power and control, possibly because he cannot enjoy the fruits of his own invention... again, I have doubts that his motives were purely decent, i.e. the horror of being the grandfather of a new age of slavery that he alludes to in your social show-down with him. I think his personal hatred of his body's rejection plays a part... also mentioned in that dialog.

Just my thoughts.

jerryku7
12th Sep 2011, 19:28
How come Sarif was not affected by the zombie virus? He's augmented isn't he?

3nails4you
12th Sep 2011, 20:16
My biggest story question is what's going to happen with Megan. Right after you rescue her and the other scientists, Adam says "You are I aren't done with this, Megan." Sounds like he's still got a bone to pick with her...my question is, why include that in the game if there's not going to be another? Perhaps one where you can even begin the next game by choosing which option you chose at the end of the last game (and as far the fourth ending choice, Adam somehow survives the destruction of the Panchaea or something like that). I just feel like they are gearing up for a fourth game...how would THAT work into the story? Thoughts?

3nails4you
12th Sep 2011, 20:17
How come Sarif was not affected by the zombie virus? He's augmented isn't he?

I don't think he got the new super amazing chip thing, which is what was used to manipulate everyone. Which doesn't preclude the possibility that he knew some stuff he wasn't cluing anyone else in on, i.e. these new chips were not on the up and up.

El_Bel
12th Sep 2011, 20:43
Later, while you fight with him, Namir mentions he wasn't allowed to kill you the night of the first attack.

source?

unbeatableDX
12th Sep 2011, 20:49
source?

its obviously BS. he shoots adam in the head :lol:

Agent707
12th Sep 2011, 22:14
One thing this game series gets wrong. The Illuminati does not have anything to do with females. They are all men.

GreasedScotsman
13th Sep 2011, 15:10
its obviously BS. he shoots adam in the head :lol:

Could have sworn he said something along those lines when you fight him but I just replayed the boss fight and just ran around 'til all his "chatter" had been heard. I must have been imagining it.

Ashpolt
13th Sep 2011, 15:21
One thing this game series gets wrong. The Illuminati does not have anything to do with females. They are all men.

What about Beth DuClare? Or are you talking about the "real life" Illuminati? If so, aside from the obvious lols, I would ask how you know something about a "real life" secret society with such confidence....

JCpies
13th Sep 2011, 15:31
Could have sworn he said something along those lines when you fight him but I just replayed the boss fight and just ran around 'til all his "chatter" had been heard. I must have been imagining it.

"Namir has noticed that he is slowing down, that he is not the man he once was. His failure to terminate Adam Jensen when he had the chance plays directly into this fear, motivating him even more to undo his error."

rokstrombo
13th Sep 2011, 16:34
I get the feeling that something like close to half this game was cut. The appearance of Bob Page in the opening and during the teaser at the end, references to VersaLife, the short lead-up to Picus and the Eliza reveal, etc., the appearance and subsequent inconsequentiality of RX-84 (a reference I didn't even get until I replayed the original game and realised that was the FEMA detention camp mentioned by Simons), the complete lack of background information on any of the augmented agents and their completely one-note personalities without any growth or development, to me it all feels like they wanted to make a more expansive and well-paced story but had to throw a lot of ideas out. As it stands the current story is pretty solid, but I don't feel the motives of all characters were clearly explained, and some of the ideas introduced didn't have time to develop and flourish.

I got that feeling too. There were so many aspects of the plot and characters that were not developed or resolved. FEMA was given a few NPC remarks. Eliza, it's motivations, and the technology facilitating it was completely unexplained. Neuropozyne and VersaLife didn't make the third act. David Sarif was granted approximately 1 minute of sincerity for the entire game. Hugh Darrow folded like a house of cards after one brief conversation. Barrett, Federova, and Namir turned out to be hired goons. Taggart was a major wuss for someone so powerful. Somehow Bob Page did something, maybe. Luckily the ending could be decided by pressing one of four buttons in a single room, because that's about how much input I felt Adam had in the conclusion of the story.


Also, turning every augmented person into a mindless crazy zombie and then ending the game with a big boss fight against a human-powered computer is amazingly derpy. Not only does it not really mesh with anything seen in the rest of the game, it feels clumsy and blunt-force, as if we wouldn't get that augmentation could be exploited unless we saw augmented people going insane and killing everyone, and Cute Innocent Japanese Schoolgirls crying for ten minutes in an over-extended boss fight (or more like a button-pressing, robot-killing fight, but whatever).

I totally agree with this too. As much as I want to think it was fan service to give the player an opportunity to blow away some zombies, it was pretty poor even by zombie shooter standards and almost completely removed from the mechanics of the rest of the game. The first Biochip glitches in Adam's Apartment, Sandoval's bunker and Lower Hengsha were intriguing, but dozens of (poorly animated) zombies who are magically able to team up against Adam? I found it completely ridiculous. Unforeseen medical consequences? Artificial intelligence? Unethical corporations? Terrorism? Secret societies? How anyone could select zombies as the inevitable outcome of these pressures in a Deus Ex game is completely beyond me.

It was hilariously bad and possibly the worst final level to a game I've ever played! It's too bad because the rest of the game was fantastic!