PDA

View Full Version : Support for Nvidia 3D Vision.



rmcclelland
26th Aug 2011, 23:46
I am spoiled by playing games on my 72" screen and projector in 3D Vision. Now I won't buy any game that doesn't support 3D on NVidia hardware.

Ryan

XxtraLarGe
26th Aug 2011, 23:48
I am spoiled by playing games on my 72" screen and projector in 3D Vision. Now I won't buy any game that doesn't support 3D on NVidia hardware.

Ryan

I will not buy this game unless it comes with a mansion and a yacht.

nathanj
26th Aug 2011, 23:50
good then maybe we wont have to hear you whining on these forums anymore then.

Hectick
27th Aug 2011, 00:05
Its people like you that make developers think twice when making games for PCs. Not buying a game because it doesn't support 3d vision is beyond stupidity. This is a great game, 3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time. Also, nobody gives a crap about your 72" television. Televisions only run at 1080P which means the picture will look like crap unless you are far away. I would be more impressed if it was a 30" monitor running at 2560 x 1600.

Phase
27th Aug 2011, 01:04
Its people like you that make developers think twice when making games for PCs. Not buying a game because it doesn't support 3d vision is beyond stupidity. This is a great game, 3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time. Also, nobody gives a crap about your 72" television. Televisions only run at 1080P which means the picture will look like crap unless you are far away. I would be more impressed if it was a 30" monitor running at 2560 x 1600.

Quoted for emphasis.

tet5uo
27th Aug 2011, 01:22
I think people are just jealous they haven't got a good 3d setup.

n08r
27th Aug 2011, 02:17
the problem is not that it doesn't support stereoscopic vision - but that the game has an exclusive deal with AMD that excludes nvidia card owners from true 3D.

This really sucks a big one - it's bad for us consumers.

It's false advertising - in the eidos video promoting the PC features - stereoscopic vision was touted - without mentioning that it would be exclusive to AMD cards.

I have both AMD and nvidia cards - but only 3d glasses for the nvidia card - and the default behaviour with the in-game "stereoscopic" option blocked is simply unplayable.

I don't really know how to properly express my frustration - I've already bought the game - in good faith, and then find out that nvidia 3dvision is not supported.

The worst part is all the other "fans" who immediately jump on anyone complaining simply because they're not affected and hence dilute the complaint - well nathanj and hectick - your turn will come. There will come a purchase that you get screwed over on - and attempt to express your frustration to the supplier on a forum - only to be flamed as a whiner by some other smug asshat.

Eidos - seriously - how could you promote the pc features as including stereoscopic vision when according to steam stats july '11 only one third (32.98% using AMD graphics) of PC users can use it?? That's just plain dishonest.

ReliantLion
27th Aug 2011, 02:26
This is why I'm not going to invest in 3D until there is a dominant manufacturer. This is similar to HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray. It's just taking longer for some reason. I realize that if only one company really offered 3D, it would probably cost more, but at the same time, you'd be more likely to be able to use it.

tet5uo
27th Aug 2011, 04:58
There's also the same Bias in the 3-screen support.

I bought the game after getting super excited during their "PC week" videos that showed someone playing in 3 screen resolution with the HUD properly centered and looking great.

Only to find out upon purchase that my HUD is not centered but pushed onto the outer screens because it only centers it when detecting AMD's eyefinity. :(

rastamanfromjama
27th Aug 2011, 08:21
Its people like you that make developers think twice when making games for PCs. Not buying a game because it doesn't support 3d vision is beyond stupidity. This is a great game, 3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time. Also, nobody gives a crap about your 72" television. Televisions only run at 1080P which means the picture will look like crap unless you are far away. I would be more impressed if it was a 30" monitor running at 2560 x 1600.

I love my 100'' Beamer with 3DVision and it doesn't need a resolution of 2560 x 1600 to look beautiful.
Did you ever play a game in 3D? I love it and if a game doesn't support it, the game looses a part of it's immersion.
The 3D, if you belive it or not, drags you deeper into the game.

As an NVidia-Hardware-Owner i would love to see DE:HR in correct 3D and I can understand people who wouldn't buy
a game without proper 3D-Support. There were some games for me too, that I didn't buy because of missing 3D-Support.

Don't get me wrong, DE:HR is a must-buy, 3D working or not!!!

brucek2
27th Aug 2011, 10:17
I am pretty sure that for most people, most of the time "great game in 2D" easily beats "average game in 3D."

Just like when I go to the multiplex. If it turns out my movie is not playing in the biggest theater, I'm still not going to switch to the movie that is just because its on the biggest screen.

Also, very lame of the game industry to even consider offering "3D for Nvidia only" or "3D for AMD only". Everyone loses. I won't engage until its a standard that does not paint me into a corner on having to use specific games with specific cards on specific monitors with specific glasses. Give me a break.

Hellisloose
27th Aug 2011, 15:19
Hi all,

Just a friendly reminder its 2011, the year of 3D in everyones home being piped in from all angles.
The game industry needs to release true 3D titles. A title is not 3D unless it supports Stereoscopic 3D (S3D) period.
S3D has been around with Nvidia support since 1996 with wired game port shutter glasses. Then in 2006 DLP showed up in the market with 3dready logos supporting a sync port etc. Ever since Crts were able to support high frame rates prior to going extenct, we could use some type of S3d, but the costs were out of most players hands.
Now turn to 2011, its affordable, its awsome, and it works well.
I'm happy ATI joined the S3D bandwaggon, 12 years later.

But really where is the Quad buffered S3D support for Nvidia since it supports it with out quatro cards?

Eidos provided this feature in a few AAA titles like Avatar, thanks to the director, and Batman AA. So why would you skip it for an inferior 720p experience on ATI cards? ( unless i got that fact wrong, since last I checked ati did not support 120 hz monitor output)

I'd also like to mention this fact: Although Nvidia is a direct compeditor to ATI, Nvidia 3d vision monitors support the HD3d by way of HDMI 1.4 so no one looses out. Should ATI provide Dual link DVI output, you bought a product which supports both.

Now that this game only supports HD3D ,(720p) since limit of HDMI 1.4 bandwith, the most common and largest pool of players with hardware capable of 1080P/120 S3D are overlooked.

A quote from Andrew @ Nvidia. ( I was looking for a quote from ATI but could not find one)
Quote/
Hi

A few comments

- We have supported Quad buffered in our driver for two years allowing game developers to use it in their game. Avatar and Crysis 2 both used it. Just last week AMD finally released their support. Developers can use both modes if they want to get the same effect on each GPU. Some choose to do it, some don't for whatever reason.

- We have supported converting existing games automatically into 3D using our software for alomost 3 years, while our competition doesn't. We think this is a good feature for users. I don't have any information why AMD doesn't support this.

- All of our new 3D Vision monitors support HDMI 1.4 3D which means you can connect them to an AMD GPU and get HD3D support.

/End quote.

Its simply the best. Remember DDD or Iz3d driver u lose a lot of FPS ( frames per second) unlike the Nvidia driver.
ATI Flag ship spec for S3d on AMD Radeon™ HD 6990 Graphics .....
◦HDMI 1.4a with Stereoscopic 3D Frame Packing Format, Deep Color, xvYCC wide gamut support, and high bit-rate audio •Max resolution: 1920x1200 AT 24 FPS lol. BluRay only.


Forgot to add I have the AMD Radeon™ HD 6990 Graphics on my other pc for movies only since s3d support is way to late to be in the game and 720P/120 is good for consoles only.

Flame on below I know there is a hater.

Downtown1
27th Aug 2011, 15:57
This game has the "AMD" logo come up when you run it, that should tell you everything..

andysonofbob
27th Aug 2011, 16:40
This game has the "AMD" logo come up when you run it, that should tell you everything..

Sadly this info was not availiable when the game came out pre-order. Because 3D Vision users are used to games working in 3D with little or no dev input many assumed this game would be ok. To assume makes an ass out of u and me

I think it is safe to assume no-one will preorder any game again though...

NixxesSoftware
27th Aug 2011, 17:12
If you want the 3DVision to work with no developer support you should probably talk to Nvidia? Not the developer?

Truth of the matter is that the developer typically is involved, the driver can only do so much to make it work automatically. And Nvidia will have to work together with the developer to get 3D working properly.

If you want a developer to add support for 3DVision that is an understandable request, and it is being heard here. But you can't really fault the developer for Nvidia not making it work automatically.

Anyway, as for what HD3D can do. That does not restrict you to 720p. AMD has a list of supported 120hz monitors. HDMI output can have some further restrictions, but those are all coming from HDMI standard and the TV you will be running on, and this will be no different as with 3DVision.

The list of supported monitors for 3DVision and HD3D is different though, which is really unfortunate if you ask me. Would be nice if there was a 3D standard for monitors that they both just used, but there is not.

Arioch888
27th Aug 2011, 17:38
Ideally it would be nice if there was a universal standard - maybe DX12 will have some sort of 3D parameters as part of it but we are stuck with the current standards in the meantime.

I am hoping you guys can work with Nvidia and make this game work for 3D Vision users. From my understanding they are willing to work with developers if they want help on making this work properly. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I don't really buy a lot of games like I used to so I am a little more picky on what I buy now. I don't know how much your involvement with AMD on this limits you in dealing with Nvidia but I just hope this game can get 3D Vision support in the near future.

felipaopl
27th Aug 2011, 19:05
If you want the 3DVision to work with no developer support you should probably talk to Nvidia? Not the developer?
Now I really think we're screwed:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=207148&st=0


I'm sure many of you have seen the news that Deus Ex Human Evolution will be supported with AMD HD3D Quad buffered mode. There hasnt been a lot of talk about 3D Vision support for the game from Edios, but we are working with the developer to support it with 3D Vision.

If you want to provide your voice and encourage the developer to support 3D Vision, please visit the Eidos Forums and politely voice your support.

So, who has to talk with who?

andysonofbob
27th Aug 2011, 20:50
Truth of the matter is that the developer typically is involved, the driver can only do so much to make it work automatically. And Nvidia will have to work together with the developer to get 3D working properly.

@ Nixxes

Mate, you are so wrong there. Some of the most impressive games to play in 3D have had ZERO input by devs and are without profiles In fact some (like Bethesda) are and have been utterly anti 3D.
What additional programing did Eidos do to make it work with AMD?

It really galls me when devs try to implement 3D because it usually goes wrong. In the good old days of last year, when all devs were anti 3D, all their games worked in 3D! That includes 3D Vision, iz3D and DDD (don't know about AMD's solution). They worked because they looked for info within the Direct X code most games are programed in and if there were glitches, driver updates would fix certain issues whilst graphic options would sort out the rest (disabling crosshairs, shadows etc).

Now Devs side with one or the other 3D solutions upsetting half of their customers. LEAVE 3D ALONE!!!

murry
27th Aug 2011, 21:15
I think as game developer you have to check what the current standard of technology is and then make sure that the most common systems receive at least basic support. If you then decide to put some special effort into a specifc system - that is perfectly ok.

I pre-purchased Human Revolution a few weeks ago and checked if 3D was supported and everywhere it said - yes Eidos confirms 3D support. Well a typical case of "I assumed". I assumed this would mean 3D support and not 3D support but only for AMD systems.

Some may think 3D support is no big deal but that's only if you do not have a 3D system. Would you go back to playing in 16 color EGA from todays color standard? I guess not. Same with 3D for me. I play in 3d and won't go back.

murry
27th Aug 2011, 22:01
Not buying a game because it doesn't support 3d vision is beyond stupidity. This is a great game, 3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time.

There you are very much mistaken. I have a 3D system and to me you sound like someone who would have said 25 years ago that color is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time and monochrome is good enough for everyone. Actually I have bought DE:HR, I pre-purchased it several weeks ago, because everywhere I read - yes it supports 3D. Well it does support AMD HD3D. I played five minutes, realized that it does not support my NVIDIA 3D system and then deleted the game from my harddrive. You may think that is stupid. Maybe it is. But for me the lack of 3D support is like finding out the game only runs in 16 color EGA. If you only have a 16 color EGA system you might think people are stupid complaining about missing full color support.

josh6135
27th Aug 2011, 22:47
Its people like you that make developers think twice when making games for PCs. Not buying a game because it doesn't support 3d vision is beyond stupidity. This is a great game, 3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time. Also, nobody gives a crap about your 72" television. Televisions only run at 1080P which means the picture will look like crap unless you are far away. I would be more impressed if it was a 30" monitor running at 2560 x 1600.

I would greatly appreciate it if nvidia 3D vision support was added to this masterpiece of a game.

I understand the original post may have sounded a little spoiled. However to go ahead and say something like "3d vision is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time" i think is just plain stupid. In what way is 3D Vision a stupid gimmick?

I have shown 3D vision in action to about 50 people consisting of friends and family members and 1 friend said it gave them a headache (this happens to some people you have to try it to know if you are one of them). Everyone else literally had their jaw dropped in amazement and stated in more ways than one that it was incredible. Batman Arkham Asylum was what I demoed the 3d vision with. There are not many games that support 3D vision near perfectly, however that still does not make it a stupid gimmick. In my experience Batman Arkham Asylum, Trine, Resident Evil 5, Assassins Creed Brotherhood, and The Witcher 2 (as of last update) are some of the best 3d vision ready/ capable games.

Every professional review I have read in a magazine, read online, watched online, watched on tv all loved nvidia 3d vision. Most product reviews on newegg, tigerdirect, amazon praise the 3d vision for being a great product. This is what caused me to buy it and a 120hz monitor. Even without 3d a 120hz monitor is amazing fro smooth movement during video and gameplay.

With nvidia 3d vision being loved by so many people whay do you think it is a stupid gimmick?

Riddla
27th Aug 2011, 23:12
There you are very much mistaken. I have a 3D system and to me you sound like someone who would have said 25 years ago that color is just a stupid gimmick that takes up development time and monochrome is good enough for everyone. Actually I have bought DE:HR, I pre-purchased it several weeks ago, because everywhere I read - yes it supports 3D. Well it does support AMD HD3D. I played five minutes, realized that it does not support my NVIDIA 3D system and then deleted the game from my harddrive. You may think that is stupid. Maybe it is. But for me the lack of 3D support is like finding out the game only runs in 16 color EGA. If you only have a 16 color EGA system you might think people are stupid complaining about missing full color support.

I pre-ordered this game on DECEMBER 12TH, 2010.

If you (and the rest of you) are such spoiled brats that you all whine and moan because you can't destroy your eyesight that tiny bit faster for the sake of a VISUAL EFFECT that doesn't influence gameplay one single iota and are willing to throw away your money because of it, then my friend you must lead an extremely sad life, regardless of how much money you have.

Some of us have been waiting for this game since 1998 my friend. We're just fine with having it at all, crashes and everything.

Don't be such a spoiled whiner.

josh6135
27th Aug 2011, 23:31
I pre-ordered this game on DECEMBER 12TH, 2010.

If you (and the rest of you) are such spoiled brats that you all whine and moan because you can't destroy your eyesight that tiny bit faster for the sake of a VISUAL EFFECT that doesn't influence gameplay one single iota and are willing to throw away your money because of it, then my friend you must lead an extremely sad life, regardless of how much money you have.

Some of us have been waiting for this game since 1998 my friend. We're just fine with having it at all, crashes and everything.

Don't be such a spoiled whiner.

any proof that nvidia 3d vision destroys your eyesight? i am asking a genuine question i am not trying to be rude or anything. i must say though with EVERY professional review of nvidia 3d vision enjoying it , whjy are you so spiteful towards it, such as saying things like " doesn't influence gameplay one single iota and are willing to throw away your money because of it" do you really think that because YOU do not like 3d vision it is a waist of money? unless you really do have proof it damages your eyes than i could see 3d vision as being a bad thing overall.

polorsport
28th Aug 2011, 01:31
Screw the poor haters. I'm with you op. No 3D vision support no buy. The moment it is available you get a purchase.

josh6135
28th Aug 2011, 01:50
Screw the poor haters. I'm with you op. No 3D vision support no buy. The moment it is available you get a purchase.
i am playing deus ex without 3d vision now. hopefully they add 3d vision support, luckily there are so many options in the game you can easily play it twice. i agree with you screw the 3d vision haters. people seem to hate 3d vision for the most moronic reasons imaginable.

jtr7
28th Aug 2011, 01:53
I think people are just jealous they haven't got a good 3d setup.

lol

MaxxQ1
28th Aug 2011, 02:06
lol

QFT.

elongation
28th Aug 2011, 07:58
I think as game developer you have to check what the current standard of technology is and then make sure that the most common systems receive at least basic support. If you then decide to put some special effort into a specifc system - that is perfectly ok.

I pre-purchased Human Revolution a few weeks ago and checked if 3D was supported and everywhere it said - yes Eidos confirms 3D support. Well a typical case of "I assumed". I assumed this would mean 3D support and not 3D support but only for AMD systems.

Some may think 3D support is no big deal but that's only if you do not have a 3D system. Would you go back to playing in 16 color EGA from todays color standard? I guess not. Same with 3D for me. I play in 3d and won't go back.

+1 on the above. Im currently using 3D Vision from Nvidia and games designed for stereoscopic 3d in the industry standard way often perform well on Nvidias platform aswell as DDD and others. If only some issues could be corrected then the game will function well on those platforms aswell. As Deus Ex is a series with long tradition wouldnt it be great if we could pick the Deus Ex:HR up ten years from now and have it perform flawlessly in stereoscopic 3d (which I believe is where the industry is headed). If that vision is one you like to pursue then focus on fixing the current issues standard stereoscopic solutions run into when running this game.

Sense/Net
28th Aug 2011, 08:08
Devs should keep the focus on making a quality game rather than accommodating retarded gimmicks.

murry
28th Aug 2011, 08:18
Don't be such a spoiled whiner.

Yes I admit I am spoiled. Actually we all are spoiled by technological advances. That's why they do not make silent movies anymore. And while I can enjoy a classic silent Charlie Chaplin movie once in a while it simply would look stupid if Terminator 5 were released as black & white silent movie, accompanied by Piano play.
Would you accept a game today that only supported a specific soundcard and the rest would only get beeping sound through internal PC speakers?
I have played only 3D for nearly two years now. And yes I am spoiled. I am used to it. If you have explored Rome in 3D and climbed the Colloseum and the Pantheon in Assasins Creed Brotherhood in 3D or explored the Moscow underground in Metro 2033 in 3D there is no going back. A game like DE:HR in 2D simply looks like cheap crap if you are used to 3D. Like a Terminator movie would look in black & white on your great-grandmas TV set. Game developers try to make their games graphics top notch and as realistic as possible - but sorry, if you are used to play in 3D and now have to play in flatworld again it doesn't matter if the developers got the reflections in water puddles right or if the shadows look more realistic than ever. Because they don't. It looks cheap and falt. Because the world is 3D and a 2D game with super "realistic" graphics will not look half as realistic as a 3D game with only half the eycandy.

I can however understand that we sound like spoiled whiners. That's what I though about the guys complaining in the early 90s that a game would only support a specific soundcard and they had to play with beeper sound. I thought they were whiners since I only had an internal PC speaker. Then I bought my own soundcard and joined the whining.

murry
28th Aug 2011, 08:45
Devs should keep the focus on making a quality game rather than accommodating retarded gimmicks.
If game developers in the past had followed this great piece of advice we would still be playing "Pong" on 12" monochrome screens with beeper sounds coming from internal speakers. Because color once was a "retarded gimmick" and soundcards once were "retarded gimmicks", too.

Fluffis
28th Aug 2011, 08:50
people seem to hate 3d vision for the most moronic reasons imaginable.

Such as it being a completely unnecessary gimmick which takes up valuable time and budget that could be used to develop the actual game, and bug fixing?

Yeah... moronic...

murry
28th Aug 2011, 08:56
Such as it being a completely unnecessary gimmick which takes up valuable time and budget that could be used to develop the actual game, and bug fixing?

Yeah... moronic...

If you think supporting the current standard of technology is moronic you can as well go back to playing Pac-Man in monochrome with beeper sound. Because soundcards and color were "gimmicks" once, too.

moose o death
28th Aug 2011, 09:11
nothing stopping you from getting an amd card either. the game DOES support 3d just not the one you chose. deus ex teaches us to role with our decisions.

mmed
28th Aug 2011, 09:34
There´s alot of great games coming out this time of the year.
I´m not spending my money on a game wich I can´t play in 3D.
When this game works with 3DVision I will definitivily buy it.

Riddla
28th Aug 2011, 10:12
any proof that nvidia 3d vision destroys your eyesight? i am asking a genuine question i am not trying to be rude or anything. i must say though with EVERY professional review of nvidia 3d vision enjoying it , whjy are you so spiteful towards it, such as saying things like " doesn't influence gameplay one single iota and are willing to throw away your money because of it" do you really think that because YOU do not like 3d vision it is a waist of money? unless you really do have proof it damages your eyes than i could see 3d vision as being a bad thing overall.

Normal radiated light from monitor screens degrades the efficiency of the rods and cones in your eyeballs over time even without 3D, it's been solid medical fact for about 20 years now. I never said it was a waste of money, but it's really not a game breaker.

You're whining like little girls about something that does not spoil your enjoyment of a beautiful game like someone called your mother a ****.

Go die in a hole the lot of you. In 3D.

INSTG8R
28th Aug 2011, 11:00
I only have to chuckle because for ONCE AMD has something on Nvidia(Batman Arkham Asylum anyone) You know where NV screwed AMD outta AA? Oh and lets not forget PhysX....
I commend Eidos for choosing AMD this round.

CamRaiD
28th Aug 2011, 11:03
+1

Yes, I would like to see 3D Vision support for your game.


Every 3D hater who has played on my rig, now all say the same thing; "It's quite a lot better isn't it". Its true that for pure immersion factor into the game world it cannot be beaten...Once said, If you like to "stop to smell the roses" in your games, and enjoy it 2d, real deep 3D will make you wet yourself.


+1

Arioch888
28th Aug 2011, 11:44
There is no point in arguing with people that like to trash 3D because they don't understand the implementation is different than the usual effect we see in 3D movies and looks a lot better. There are also the people that just want to flame for no real reason just to be heard I guess. This kind of reminds me of the people that swore to me that DVD quality was good enough and that there was no need for Blu-Ray or HD in general. These same people would tell me later how awesome movies looked on their new HDTV's.

3D in PC gaming is not new as it has been around for a decade now. We just hear about it more now because Nvidia started pushing it more when they released 3D Vision and the fact that more people are into it lately as the 3D push in media has taken off in general. True, the amount of 3D Vision owner as compared to PC gamers is in the minority but the same can be said for people that have SLI/Crossfire setups or multi-monitor setups. I also think there is a misconception that it takes a lot of work to make a game render in stereo 3D but the truth is that games are already created with the 3D code ever since the first Voodoo 3D graphics accelerator card came out. The trick is knowing what settings in the coding to tweak to make it look right when rendered in stereo 3D.

Soureal
28th Aug 2011, 12:40
+1 Make DX:HR 3D Vision ready!

murry
28th Aug 2011, 12:46
There is no point in arguing with people that like to trash 3D because they don't understand the implementation

You are right, it's like trying to explain colors to blind people. If you do not have a certain sense you do not miss it. However if you have it and loose it you feel crippled. 3D in gaming is a step as large as the step from internal PC speakers to soundcards or from monochrome to color. However you need to see it to believe it. If you draw only from the experience from 3D movies where often 3D does not add much to the movie you might not believe it.

Soureal
28th Aug 2011, 12:56
Found this thread:

Workaround - Enabling 3D Vision in Deus EX Human Revolution

http://widescreengamingforum.com/forum/forums/stereoscopic-3d-gaming/general-stereoscopic-3d-discussions/16660/workaround-enabling-3d

andysonofbob
28th Aug 2011, 13:32
+1

Every 3D hater who has played on my rig, now all say the same thing; "It's quite a lot better isn't it". Its true that for pure immersion factor into the game world it cannot be beaten...Once said, If you like to "stop to smell the roses" in your games, and enjoy it 2d, real deep 3D will make you wet yourself.

+1

That has been my experience too. The first thing my old man said when I demo'ed StarCraft 2 (the first game I put on) was that it was completely different to 3D in the cinema.

How to describe it...

Imagine walking around and the only way to see the world was from the lense of the video camera you were holding. Its fun at first using the camera screen as your eyes but imagine having to use it to view the world like that for a few hours...

Imagine the difference being able to see properly, using your eyes, in our depth filled world. That is exactly what gaming in 3D is, especially when playing FPSs!

Fluffis
28th Aug 2011, 15:11
If you think supporting the current standard of technology is moronic you can as well go back to playing Pac-Man in monochrome with beeper sound. Because soundcards and color were "gimmicks" once, too.

Nope. Didn't say moronic. I said unnecessary. And it is.

Aquineas
28th Aug 2011, 16:31
I will not read any more of your posts until you stop sounding like a Nvidia humping Bridezilla.

StratonAce
28th Aug 2011, 16:41
Just wanted to chime in and add my support to the the "I'd love to see this game get 3D Vision support."

brucek2
28th Aug 2011, 18:19
To the folks raving about their 3D gaming experience: which version of nvidia's 3D tech are you using? The original which only runs on only a handful of specifically supported monitors? Or the newer one that runs on any LCD?

I don't have a supported monitor and am not willing to switch, but if you're saying the version that works with any monitor is that great I might be willing to buy the glasses and give it a shot (on other games, I guess.)

10hellfire01
28th Aug 2011, 18:26
+1 3D vision support as I've already said everywhere >.>

brucek2
28th Aug 2011, 18:28
Nixxes: is your post meaning to imply that the reason DX:HR does not support the Nvidia tech is something other than because AMD paid off for Eidos / SquareEnix / someone for it not to?

Because offering 3D support on only one of the two cards, combined with the big AMD logo that is displayed on start up, sure makes it seem like that's what happened. Otherwise why would the product possibly be specced to include 3D support on one card and not the other?

As a 2D player this hasn't mattered to me, but I could understand the folks who care about 3D feeling shafted over this and wanting to return the favor. In fact if they don't exert some pressure by refusing to buy the game then one of the two camps of nvidia or amd players will end up getting screwed over by whichever card company's marketing department paid the highest bribe on each particular game, which will ultimately just fragment the market and seems like a bad long term idea for all involved.

GreatScott
28th Aug 2011, 19:43
the problem is not that it doesn't support stereoscopic vision - but that the game has an exclusive deal with AMD that excludes nvidia card owners from true 3D.

This really sucks a big one - it's bad for us consumers.



It does suck for consumers but I don't blame AMD. Nvidia are the ones who do this sort of thing always and have caused this.


I only have to chuckle because for ONCE AMD has something on Nvidia(Batman Arkham Asylum anyone) You know where NV screwed AMD outta AA? Oh and lets not forget PhysX....
I commend Eidos for choosing AMD this round.

Just Cause 2 also and there are number of other games I'm sure where because of nivdia not only have people been unable to play with specific settings but also play a game with worse performance because its not a Nvidia card.

tet5uo
28th Aug 2011, 19:51
If you don't think the game needs 3d-vision feel free to GTFO this thread. It's not like it affects you.

DXM1
28th Aug 2011, 21:50
OP: You are a total tool.

there are people having real issues with the game , you come to complain because you need to run 3d?

go ahead dont buy it, you will miss out on the best game released in the past 10 years, and one that rivals original deus ex.

but who cares, you need useless effects to play. your priorities are all wrong.

tet5uo
28th Aug 2011, 21:52
OP: You are a total tool.

there are people having real issues with the game , you come to complain because you need to run 3d?

go ahead dont buy it, you will miss out on the best game released in the past 10 years, and one that rivals original deus ex.

but who cares, you need useless effects to play. your priorities are all wrong.

You feel the need to try starting some ridiculous flame war in a thread that has nothing to do with you.

Who's priorities are skewed here, sir?

Fluffis
28th Aug 2011, 22:04
If you don't think the game needs 3d-vision feel free to GTFO this thread. It's not like it affects you.

But it does affect us. All of us. If they focus on bringing 3D into the game, that means they take time out from doing other things that more people can benefit from. So, no. I won't "GTFO" this thread.

tZer
28th Aug 2011, 22:13
It probably sucks having a rig like this only to not be able to use it. But who is to blame? ATI probably paid Eidos some good money for the exclusivety, and NVidia does the same with other games, so blame the people who started this stupid "war" where the only victim is the consumer.

Fluffis
28th Aug 2011, 22:34
It probably sucks having a rig like this only to not be able to use it..

Probably. Though I tend to think that having a ton of people, with rigs that should run this game smooth as silk, getting massive stuttering and framerate drops, is a tad more worrying than someone not getting to nuzzle Adam's abs 10ft away from the screen. Just lean in, like the rest of us!

CamRaiD
29th Aug 2011, 00:53
Nixxes: is your post meaning to imply that the reason DX:HR does not support the Nvidia tech is something other than because AMD paid off for Eidos / SquareEnix / someone for it not to?


An Eidos man mentioned (somewhere, I forget where), they needed support from Nvidia to make 3D happen. What that means, you can ascertain.

So rather than paying Eidos NOT to support the rival 3D tech, they are paying to support their own tech. Something Nvidia probably doesn't want to have to pay for, seeing as they are, by far the large market share.

Risingred
29th Aug 2011, 01:22
The list of supported monitors for 3DVision and HD3D is different though, which is really unfortunate if you ask me. Would be nice if there was a 3D standard for monitors that they both just used, but there is not.

What's really really unfortunate is two hardware companies screwing over the fans by not offering the same type of (universal) support for 3D, and the gaming developers who cater to this rift.

brucek2
29th Aug 2011, 01:56
An Eidos man mentioned (somewhere, I forget where), they needed support from Nvidia to make 3D happen. What that means, you can ascertain.

LOL. Yes, I see. Eidos probably just needed the developer documentation for Nvidia 3D, but Nvidia was unfortunately just too busy that day to send it to them. Oh well.

10hellfire01
29th Aug 2011, 03:04
LOL. Yes, I see. Eidos probably just needed the developer documentation for Nvidia 3D, but Nvidia was unfortunately just too busy that day to send it to them. Oh well.

I sure hope it's that simple lol

josh6135
29th Aug 2011, 04:42
If you think supporting the current standard of technology is moronic you can as well go back to playing Pac-Man in monochrome with beeper sound. Because soundcards and color were "gimmicks" once, too.
you have just perfectly summed up the idiotic anti -3d hate that people (especially ATI users) vomit all over the internet. i do not have any direct hate towards ATI/ AMD however I am beginning to see why they hold such a small share of the video card market. it is incredible that there is so much hate for nvidia 3d vision especially being that it is loved by almost anyone who has used it or owns it.

felipaopl
29th Aug 2011, 04:54
For those who were waiting... here's one workaround to make it work with 3D Vision:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=207148&st=160

Not perfect, but playable.

drastic00
29th Aug 2011, 05:29
I am spoiled by my hardware. Having some sort of exclusivity to a certain configuration is kinda short-sighted to me.

DXM1
29th Aug 2011, 05:32
You feel the need to try starting some ridiculous flame war in a thread that has nothing to do with you.

Who's priorities are skewed here, sir?

you want 3d... good for you. nobody else cares. If there is a market for it, you would have these features in games. since they are missing, that should tell you something. If you bought into the 3d gimmick, good for you, but dont expect everyone to cater to your needs when the demand is so low.

The bottom line is that right now there are more pressing issues to fix than add your stupid eye candy. You know like broken quests that cant be completed, and stuttering issues? Crashes, Hud problems, etc.... We need several patches just for that.

DX HR is an amazing game. if you are choosing to skip it b/c it doesnt have 3d you are a tool. And so is the OP.

have a good day "sir".

andrewf@nvidia
29th Aug 2011, 06:18
LOL. Yes, I see. Eidos probably just needed the developer documentation for Nvidia 3D, but Nvidia was unfortunately just too busy that day to send it to them. Oh well.

Hi

I'm the product manager for 3D Vision at NVIDIA. If Eidos needs documentation for implementing 3d support I am happy to provide it.

murry
29th Aug 2011, 08:30
To the folks raving about their 3D gaming experience: which version of nvidia's 3D tech are you using? The original which only runs on only a handful of specifically supported monitors? Or the newer one that runs on any LCD?

I don't think you can run NVIDIA 3D vision on just any LCD ever. NVIDIA 3D uses shutter glasses. This means the LCD does not display the picture for the left and right eye simultanously, but one after the other. Which means you need a 120 Hz screen to get the normal 60 Hz for every eye. If you use a normal 60Hz screen you would only have an actual frequenzy of 30Hz. That would be very very uncomfortable.



I'm the product manager for 3D Vision at NVIDIA. If Eidos needs documentation for implementing 3d support I am happy to provide it.

Now that is just sad. The product manager from Nvidia has to register and post in the Eidos forum to make contact to Eidos. What's the matter with you Eidos guys? Ok, there is competition between AMD and NVIDIA but why are you as game developers taking sides?

brucek2
29th Aug 2011, 08:48
I don't think you can run NVIDIA 3D vision on just any LCD ever

That's what I thought until I gave nvidia's website a fresh look this morning. From the FAQ for their newer 3D tech, "3D Vision Discover" (CAPS emphasis mine):

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-discover-faq.html

Q: What is NVIDIA 3D Vision Discover?
A: NVIDIA 3D Vision Discover is a complete stereoscopic 3D solution consisting of custom 3D drivers, 3D media viewers, and optimized anaglyph red/blue glasses that deliver incredible 3D clarity ON ANY DESKTOP LCD. This solution, when paired with an NVIDIA GeForce GPU, immerses you in a world where games, movies, and photos come to life on screen in eye-popping 3D.

Q: How is this different from the original NVIDIA 3D Vision?
A: The original 3D Vision kit which includes wireless, active shutter glasses were designed for an even more immersive high-definition, hi-fidelity gaming experience and work with 120Hz LCDs and 3D Ready DLPs.

So my question is -- for any of the folks raving about how great the 3D is -- are any of you using this new 3D Vision Discover? Or are you all on the original nvidia 3d vision?

andysonofbob
29th Aug 2011, 09:34
3D discover is just old school 3D. Red/cyan. It works though, you do see the quality of the 3D but the image sucks!!! I am a 3D Vision user and I game on that baby for hours at a time. I managed about 20 mins before it felt funny. I guess it is because the cheap/free red/cyan glasses arent perfect.

I would say proper 3D is like going from listening to mono music to stereo. Red/cyan 3D is the same, you do hear stereo but the sound quality has loads of hissssssssss.

Fluffis
29th Aug 2011, 10:06
you have just perfectly summed up the idiotic anti -3d hate that people (especially ATI users) vomit all over the internet. i do not have any direct hate towards ATI/ AMD however I am beginning to see why they hold such a small share of the video card market. it is incredible that there is so much hate for nvidia 3d vision especially being that it is loved by almost anyone who has used it or owns it.

It's not hate. It's lack of interest. 3D is an unnecessary gimmick. They tried it with movies in the 50's. It failed. They tried it with movies and TV in the 80's. It failed. They're trying it with movies and computer games now, and a lot of people are getting wise to the fact that it's a gimmick to try to "get more money from suckers".

The added problem, when it comes to computer games, dlc and so on, is that they have a budget, and they have a deadline. With these, they have to deal with all bugs, errors and features. Practically all other features in a computer game are more important than 3D. And I don't think I have to do more than mention bugs and errors...

Your gimmick is not important enough, because there are more other things that affect everyone - not just a handful of people.

Soureal
29th Aug 2011, 10:12
Hi

I'm the product manager for 3D Vision at NVIDIA. If Eidos needs documentation for implementing 3d support I am happy to provide it.

Think Eidos have a deal with AMD that 3D Vision support is not allowed :(
testet the AMD3D at gamescom with DX:HR and it.... sucks :mad2:

Eidos/Nixxes make DX:HR 3D Vision compatible!

Riddla
29th Aug 2011, 10:18
It probably sucks having a rig like this only to not be able to use it. But who is to blame? ATI probably paid Eidos some good money for the exclusivety, and NVidia does the same with other games, so blame the people who started this stupid "war" where the only victim is the consumer.

*****ing and moaning aside, this.

I_have_2_eyes_4_a_reason
29th Aug 2011, 11:05
I agree with the OP. Eidos, please work together with Nvidia to make this work properly with 3D Vision.
Just to satisfy the immature luddites on this thread, by all means don't make it your absolute top priority, but know that the fact is that more people will buy your games if you support 3D Vision.
Thank you!

I_have_2_eyes_4_a_reason
29th Aug 2011, 11:08
Eidos, please work with Nvidia to help showcase your latest creation in 3D Vision.
If you do that, I will buy your game.
Simples!

neoangin
29th Aug 2011, 13:10
Adding my voice to the request, too!!!

You already have me as customer, since I preordered, but at least I will not start the game and therefore not purchase bonus content until 3D Vision is supported!

Fluffis
29th Aug 2011, 14:23
I agree with the OP. Eidos, please work together with Nvidia to make this work properly with 3D Vision.
Just to satisfy the immature luddites on this thread, by all means don't make it your absolute top priority, but know that the fact is that more people will buy your games if you support 3D Vision.
Thank you!

So, let me get this straight: "3D gamers" won't buy games that don't support their particular version of 3D, and it's the rest of us who are unreasonable?

Peter_RIP
29th Aug 2011, 14:44
Now I really think we're screwed:
http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=207148&st=0



So, who has to talk with who?

A reply to this from Nixxes or anyone from Eidos/Square-Enix would be welcome, in my opinion. The deal with AMD is no secret or speculation, so it's just a question of whether Nixxes/Eidos want to/can support (at least) Nvidia 3D Vision or not within a more or less reasonable amount of time. As it seems Nvidia has already offered cooperation, we don't need to talk to them anymore.

Anyway, +1 for 3D Vision (and maybe other drivers, but I don't know much about them) support, with no hate towards Nixxes (although Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 was not such a good port ;), but it works great with 3D Vision!)

murry
29th Aug 2011, 15:48
So, let me get this straight: "3D gamers" won't buy games that don't support their particular version of 3D, and it's the rest of us who are unreasonable?
First of all I preordered the game weeks ago. When I could read everywhere that 3D was supported but not a single word that this would be limited to HD3D. I still remember a video on youtube with three guys from Eidos on a couch, talking about the great 3D support, but no remark about the limitations to AMDs system.

If you had started your game and realized that your soundcard/chip was not supported and you had to play without sound - not really for technical reasons but just because nobody at Eidos bothered - I guess you wouldn't be amused either. But hey, you could play without sound. After all there are still subtitles. Only it probably would not be much fun and ruin your game. And you probably wouldn't find it very funny if every five minutes someone told you how sound is a stupid gimmick and you are a spoiled brat, just because this person has never had a soundcard/chip and does not know what he is missing.

josh6135
29th Aug 2011, 16:05
It's not hate. It's lack of interest. 3D is an unnecessary gimmick. They tried it with movies in the 50's. It failed. They tried it with movies and TV in the 80's. It failed. They're trying it with movies and computer games now, and a lot of people are getting wise to the fact that it's a gimmick to try to "get more money from suckers".

The added problem, when it comes to computer games, dlc and so on, is that they have a budget, and they have a deadline. With these, they have to deal with all bugs, errors and features. Practically all other features in a computer game are more important than 3D. And I don't think I have to do more than mention bugs and errors...

Your gimmick is not important enough, because there are more other things that affect everyone - not just a handful of people.

please do not compare movie theater polarized/ 3D to stereoscopic 3d , they are completely different. In movie theaters 3d does jack up the price of a movie and i agree it is a gimmick. however nvidia 3d vision compatibility has never jacked up a price of a game (obviously you need to buy the proper hardware for it to work). i agree "all other features in a computer game are more important than 3D" however that does not mean 3d vision should be scolded as a gimmick and a rip off. 3d vision is not immensely popular however i would not think that it is anywhwere near failing. have you actually tried nvidia 3d vision with 3d vision ready game? or are you just hating it pointlessly like everyone? 3d can be implemented properly look at batman arkham asylum i would say it is overall a flawless/ almost bug free game with perfect 3d technology built in.

CamRaiD
29th Aug 2011, 16:12
you want 3d... good for you. nobody else cares. If there is a market for it, you would have these features in games. since they are missing, that should tell you something. If you bought into the 3d gimmick, good for you, but dont expect everyone to cater to your needs when the demand is so low.

The bottom line is that right now there are more pressing issues to fix than add your stupid eye candy. You know like broken quests that cant be completed, and stuttering issues? Crashes, Hud problems, etc.... We need several patches just for that.

DX HR is an amazing game. if you are choosing to skip it b/c it doesnt have 3d you are a tool. And so is the OP.

have a good day "sir".

Dear Troll,

Please poke one of your eyes out, and you can have 2d in real life as well!

Joking aside, when you next buy a screen, IT WILL BE 3D WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. Its already getting that way.

Then you won't be trolling in a thread where you don't even have 3D.

CamRaiD
29th Aug 2011, 16:16
It's not hate. It's lack of interest. 3D is an unnecessary gimmick. They tried it with movies in the 50's. It failed. They tried it with movies and TV in the 80's. It failed. They're trying it with movies and computer games now, and a lot of people are getting wise to the fact that it's a gimmick to try to "get more money from suckers".

You have successfully demonstrated to us your lack of knowledge on the subject.

My point being that what was available to us 60 years ago, is exactly that. A long time ago.

The reality is, that everyone who has played on my 3D rig absolutely love it . No exceptions. Even the girlies love it when I use the superman mod and fly like a bullet through the clouds on JC2. The realism is to the next level completely. Blows your mind.

So instead of contributing nothing to OP's thread. Go and make your own anti-3D thread or something...?

Support 3D Vision Eidos. For killer immersion, and the ultimate showcase. I will buy your game if it supports 3D Vision.

+1

murry
29th Aug 2011, 16:47
The realism is to the next level completely. Blows your mind.

Exactly. The funny thing is - game developers and gamers alike want more realism in every next game. However - the real huge step in realism is 3D and not adding another reflexion to a water puddle or another shadow to a lamppost.

The problem is however that the 3D in movies which is complete crap compared to 3D in games like Arkham Asylum or Assasins Creed Brotherhood has added much prejudice to 3D in games. Everybody thinks they know what they are talking about just because they saw Alice in Wonderland in 3D and it was crap when in reality this has nothing to do with 3D in gaming. It's like talking about recorded music when all people are talking about mp3s and CDs and all you ever heard in recorded music was an Edison wax cylinder phonograph recording.

CamRaiD
29th Aug 2011, 16:53
So, let me get this straight: "3D gamers" won't buy games that don't support their particular version of 3D, and it's the rest of us who are unreasonable?

More so, that once you have tasted real 3D gaming, you don't want to play 2d again. It is not even half as good.

Fluffis
29th Aug 2011, 17:17
First of all I preordered the game weeks ago. When I could read everywhere that 3D was supported but not a single word that this would be limited to HD3D. I still remember a video on youtube with three guys from Eidos on a couch, talking about the great 3D support, but no remark about the limitations to AMDs system.

If you had started your game and realized that your soundcard/chip was not supported and you had to play without sound - not really for technical reasons but just because nobody at Eidos bothered - I guess you wouldn't be amused either. But hey, you could play without sound. After all there are still subtitles. Only it probably would not be much fun and ruin your game. And you probably wouldn't find it very funny if every five minutes someone told you how sound is a stupid gimmick and you are a spoiled brat, just because this person has never had a soundcard/chip and does not know what he is missing.

False analogy. 3D functionality is not as fundamental to a game as sound. More like EAX or surround.

Sodel
29th Aug 2011, 17:30
This thread is akward 2 pages for an obvious 1 post troll posting? Are you people on the internet for the first time?

Fluffis
29th Aug 2011, 17:44
You have successfully demonstrated to us your lack of knowledge on the subject.

My point being that what was available to us 60 years ago, is exactly that. A long time ago.

The reality is, that everyone who has played on my 3D rig absolutely love it . No exceptions. Even the girlies love it when I use the superman mod and fly like a bullet through the clouds on JC2. The realism is to the next level completely. Blows your mind.

So instead of contributing nothing to OP's thread. Go and make your own anti-3D thread or something...?

Support 3D Vision Eidos. For killer immersion, and the ultimate showcase. I will buy your game if it supports 3D Vision.

+1

I have a 3D setup.

That's right. Nobody even thought to ask.

I still don't consider 3D a vital ingredient in games.

josh6135
29th Aug 2011, 18:10
Exactly. The funny thing is - game developers and gamers alike want more realism in every next game. However - the real huge step in realism is 3D and not adding another reflexion to a water puddle or another shadow to a lamppost.

The problem is however that the 3D in movies which is complete crap compared to 3D in games like Arkham Asylum or Assasins Creed Brotherhood has added much prejudice to 3D in games. Everybody thinks they know what they are talking about just because they saw Alice in Wonderland in 3D and it was crap when in reality this has nothing to do with 3D in gaming. It's like talking about recorded music when all people are talking about mp3s and CDs and all you ever heard in recorded music was an Edison wax cylinder phonograph recording.

I agree. Comparing movie theater 3D to nvidia 3d vision (stereoscopic 3D) is like comparing a 1995 non-turbo Mistubishi Mirage with 250,000 miles on it to a brand new Lamborghini. They both get the job done in regards to driving however one is significantly better than the other.

Sodel
29th Aug 2011, 18:15
From such a point of view "3d" is the biggest fraud of all time anyhow since 3D in movies and games these days is the same as it was years ago its just some 2D Layers. So i wouldnt even call that 3D instead the right term would probably be "Multiple-2D-Layers" ?

XyphrX
29th Aug 2011, 20:05
From such a point of view "3d" is the biggest fraud of all time anyhow since 3D in movies and games these days is the same as it was years ago its just some 2D Layers. So i wouldnt even call that 3D instead the right term would probably be "Multiple-2D-Layers" ?

LMFAO!!!

Do you know how stereoscopic vision works?

Each frame (Left and Right) is rendered from a slightly different viewpoint in 3D-rendered gamespace. It adds depth perception in the same way your two eyeballs see the real world in 3D. (try covering each of your eyes and you can see the slightly differing viewpoint - and when you look with both eyes you will notice that your eyes must adjust to focus on objects that are at different distances to your perspective).

If the display itself is of decent quality then you will see "into" the screen when you look at objects in the distance. And likewise, things closer than the monitor (in 3D space) will "pop out" of the screen at you (depending on your settings). It's not just 2D layers. It's like you're really there! On a game with graphics as sweet as this, 3D is AWESOME!!!! Dude, you will never wanna go back once you see in 3D (just ask someone who lost an eye). Do yourself some justice and go to Best Buy or find a Target with a 3DS on display, and you'll see what I mean.

OMG, if you don't know what difference 3D really makes, try walking around IRL with an eyepatch and you'll understand. I HOPE the developers add 3D functionality to this game. I don't have a 3D monitor yet, but when I do, I'm gonna enjoy all of my games like I'm seeing then for the first time again. In fact, if I had a decent 3D monitor, I'd try to find a way to force 3D on my display (hell, I can get 3D in Thief: The Metal Age with my old LCD shutterglasses - ghosting hurts immersion in such a dark game, but in bright environments it's sweeeet - forget the old red/blue crap: with a modern 3D display, 3D is totally badass).

I know I like to rant, but my man, if you don't have problems with headaches and vertigo, then you totally don't know what you're missing without 3D.. Indeed, it's like adding color to black and white.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopic

~XyphrX

XyphrX
29th Aug 2011, 20:29
I just want to give a quick example to anyone who hasn't experienced true stereoscopy. The following link is intended for cross-viewing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tilton_on_the_Hill_gravestone_3D.jpg

Instructions: You see two images. What you want to do is stand with your face about 2-3 feet away from your monitor (depending on the size; mine is a 22") with your face directly perpendicular to the screen, and cross your eyes until the two images you are seeing overlap perfectly in the middle.

It helps to keep your head level (don't tilt your head).

You should see three pictures (two on the outside, and a third in the middle).

It will look blurry at first, but with a little patience, your eyes will relax and *automatically* focus on the 3rd picture in the middle.

Don't worry if you can't do it right away, don't force it, just try to get the two images overlap perfectly in the middle.

Within about five to ten seconds, your brain will "home in" on the center image and it will become perfectly clear.

When this happens, you'll be able to look around in the center picture and focus your attention on objects at different "distances" and you'll see the stereogram. Looks like you're really there, right?

Now with proper 3D hardware, you won't have to cross your eyes, and it shouldn't cause you much (or any) eyestrain, if the strength isn't set too high. The strength is the distance the two cameras are placed from each other - if they are too far apart, it will give you a headache, but there is a "sweet spot".

You don't need 2D layers, all you need is a "left" and a "right" image.

Can't you imagine playing your favorite 3D game this way?

~XyphrX

sandos386
29th Aug 2011, 21:17
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSuCfj2F4PrgJHaQaGbdbDDcn1DWj154Kv7uM3LcVXuSgPGRYsW2A&t=1

to lighten the mood:

http://media.onsugar.com/files/2011/04/16/1/1582/15820361/cc/2195b7s.jpg

Fluffis
29th Aug 2011, 21:25
please do not compare movie theater polarized/ 3D to stereoscopic 3d , they are completely different. In movie theaters 3d does jack up the price of a movie and i agree it is a gimmick. however nvidia 3d vision compatibility has never jacked up a price of a game (obviously you need to buy the proper hardware for it to work).


How do you know it's never jacked up the price? Do you have some kind of insight into what game publishers intend to charge for all games? Maybe games featuring 3D would actually be cheaper if they didn't have it?
It's one of those things that we just can't know.

But the main thing is hardware (as you brought up). It is definitely more expensive. Most likely a lot more than it really needs to be.



i agree "all other features in a computer game are more important than 3D" however that does not mean 3d vision should be scolded as a gimmick and a rip off. 3d vision is not immensely popular however i would not think that it is anywhwere near failing.

Most people are not willing to spend more money on their computer, just to get 3D. They just aren't. 3D is a luxury item, not a vital one (edit: in a computer sense, that is). 3D vision may not be failing, but it's not feeling very well either. There is just too much hassle for the average person to get it to work properly. There's also the "dork factor" - have you seen someone playing a 3DS, for instance? It looks ridiculous - like some kind of calisthenic prayer ritual, focused on a small plastic device.

There is every possibility that this will remain in the realm of the über-geek, or that it becomes obsolete before it's even had a chance to become popular.

Libertine
30th Aug 2011, 03:43
Im another fan who is waiting to see how this ends up and I hope I don't buy the game for $5 on Steam a year from now. Maybe i'll buy it twice, like i did for Metro 2033, because I found it was such an immersive game. Anyway, i'll wait till they add Nvidia support, since i own an Nvidia card. I don't have the time or the money to pay for different cards. I do real work for a living, which means im poor because the rich control how much *trickles* down and oh boy do they let it "trickle".

3D a gimmick? When you take your glasses off in a movie and the image looks almost normal, because theres hardly any depth to the picture, thats a gimmick. But in games, when you take your glasses off, and its a blurry mess because the images are several INCHES apart, that is the mother F'ing virtual world laid out in front of you and it and jaw dropping brilliant. Your screen *literally* looks like a window to the world. It is a big step to more immersive gaming and its only going to get cheaper the more popular it gets.

I use a 1080p Sony NX711, 2010 model, its 46" and its 2'8" away from me when i play. Someone said that it must suck to play that way. Well, i've got some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that im limited to 720p unless i get a 27" monitor. It displays 1080p, but only at 24hz. The good news is that i just came from a 2560x1600 3007wfp-hc (high color and last revision) and despite gaming at 720p on a 46" screen, i won't be going back. I think that makes me a fairly good judge. Im really surprised myself when i think about it, but i can't see the pixelation i thought i might see, I think it has to do with the subpixel processing modern TV's do, but i don't know for sure. I bought it now knowing the 720p limitation, but i now prefer it to 2560x1600 2d, and thats saying something. Played Metro 2033 through a third time in 3D and i found it to be amazing. I've never played a game 3 times that i can remember.

Fluffis
30th Aug 2011, 04:08
3D a gimmick? When you take your glasses off in a movie and the image looks almost normal, because theres hardly any depth to the picture, thats a gimmick. But in games, when you take your glasses off, and its a blurry mess because the images are several INCHES apart, that is the mother F'ing virtual world laid out in front of you and it and jaw dropping brilliant. Your screen *literally* looks like a window to the world. It is a big step to more immersive gaming and its only going to get cheaper the more popular it gets.

It is a gimmick. You don't need it to play a game. Same as with EAX or Surround sound. They enhance a game's surface, sure. They make for a flashier experience, but they are not needed. They make the games shinier. That makes them gimmicks.

Graphics, sound and gameplay. These are the three things you need to make a modern game. (Earlier, it was just graphics and gameplay.) Any features on top of those three are gimmicks, designed to attract attention but not relevant to the actual game.

Libertine
30th Aug 2011, 05:03
Me thinks you don't know what a gimmick is.... Which definition of gimmick are you going by, this one?: c : a trick or device used to attract business or attention <a marketing gimmick.

If we just go by whats "needed" in games, well, we can always go back to playing space invaders or perhaps, if its a really special occasion, pacman. Needed? Do you even "need" games at all. Sound? They had sound in pong, one of the first games, that i played, because thats how f'ing long i've been doing this. Maybe you should let the game companies know they can now stop innovating. Look up global illumination, its not needed either. Nor are textures, or color. I think you've only seen 3D in movies or 2d to 3d conversion which has a paper-cut-out look. 3D looks like the world is right in front of you.

The good news is that my TV, which is much worse for 3D than 2011 Tv's, yet still provides a better experience than a 30" 3007wfp-hc (in at least one persons opinion[mine]), will be available for sale for as low as $400 i'd guess.

Libertine
30th Aug 2011, 05:30
+1 for 3D Vision...

MaxxQ1
30th Aug 2011, 05:59
I think you've only seen 3D in movies or 2d to 3d conversion which has a paper-cut-out look. 3D looks like the world is right in front of you.

You might want to scroll to the top of this page and read his post there - post number 51 if your forum setup is different.

In that post, Fluffis says he has a 3D setup on his comp.

That said, I don't have a 3D setup, and don't plan on getting one. It seems about as useful and necessary as spinners on my car wheels - or fuzzy dice on the rear-view mirror.

OTOH, when 3D allows me to physically - in the real-world - get up out of my chair and walk around my display to see what's there from any direction I choose, then we may have something worth talking about. Just being a simulation of 3D on a 2D panel isn't enough to convince me to get it.

josh6135
30th Aug 2011, 06:30
Originally Posted by josh6135
please do not compare movie theater polarized/ 3D to stereoscopic 3d , they are completely different. In movie theaters 3d does jack up the price of a movie and i agree it is a gimmick. however nvidia 3d vision compatibility has never jacked up a price of a game (obviously you need to buy the proper hardware for it to work).
How do you know it's never jacked up the price? Do you have some kind of insight into what game publishers intend to charge for all games? Maybe games featuring 3D would actually be cheaper if they didn't have it?
It's one of those things that we just can't know.

But the main thing is hardware (as you brought up). It is definitely more expensive. Most likely a lot more than it really needs to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by josh6135
i agree "all other features in a computer game are more important than 3D" however that does not mean 3d vision should be scolded as a gimmick and a rip off. 3d vision is not immensely popular however i would not think that it is anywhwere near failing.
Most people are not willing to spend more money on their computer, just to get 3D. They just aren't. 3D is a luxury item, not a vital one (edit: in a computer sense, that is). 3D vision may not be failing, but it's not feeling very well either. There is just too much hassle for the average person to get it to work properly. There's also the "dork factor" - have you seen someone playing a 3DS, for instance? It looks ridiculous - like some kind of calisthenic prayer ritual, focused on a small plastic device.

There is every possibility that this will remain in the realm of the über-geek, or that it becomes obsolete before it's even had a chance to become popular.

when has a game company ever said "we are changing the price of a game because of 3d vision compatibility? i think the answer is never. even if you own a 120hz 3d monitor and do not use the 3d the 120hz is still an incredible feature that makes things so much smoother. you really care about a dork factor, are you 8 years old? i wear 3d vision glasses over my regular glasses does that make me a double dork. you truly have such pathetic views of 3d vision. you could simply not like 3d vision and leave it at that, instead you are vomiting idiotic theories on 3d vision. have fun staying in the crowd of people who hate 3d technology for the most moronic reasons ever imaginable.

Libertine
30th Aug 2011, 06:45
That said, I don't have a 3D setup, and don't plan on getting one. It seems about as useful and necessary as spinners on my car wheels - or fuzzy dice on the rear-view mirror.
I think if the gaming experience sucks to begin with, it won't add much to it and if the game world doesn't look realistic or believable, like in older games, it might not add much really, at least for some people. It does for me, and im replaying the HL2 series currently. Also, for players more focused on competition, and keep their eye on the leaderboard, maybe less for them. But for those who value immersion, who want to feel as if they're in the world, and are able to see 3D,[5%, or some close single digit figure aren't] then i'd highly recommend it.

It adds a real, visceral sense of depth and distance. When looking up, it makes high areas of buildings, etc, *feel* high up and far away. When looking off the edge of a cliff, it makes me *feel* in danger. When the two kids ran at me in the market at the beginning on Metro 2033, i felt the need to jump out of the way. When the "librarian" creatures in Metro 2033, they look as if there standing right there in front of you, able to kill you if they wanted to, with their hugely muscular bodies, which you can easily make out in 3D...


OTOH, when 3D allows me to physically - in the real-world - get up out of my chair and walk around my display to see what's there from any direction I choose, then we may have something worth talking about. Just being a simulation of 3D on a 2D panel isn't enough to convince me to get it.Don't hold your breath on that one. Maybe cryogenic freezing.... which they do now if your interested.

Mike.P
30th Aug 2011, 09:23
Hi all,

Okay, let me start by saying this... I'm sure many people don't care about 3D, and think it's a worthless gimmick. Fine. If you feel that way, so be it. I won't argue. But as for me, I think it's awesome. It gives games an incredible visual appeal, and a deep level of immersion. I love playing games in 3D on my big-screen Sony. If you disagree, that is certainly your choice. But I feel I have a valid question, and deserve to have it answered. So to that point;

Eidos... I am deeply disappointed that you've spent the time and effort to put 3D support into this game, but have limited it to AMD hardware. The ability to play in 3D was a large factor in my decision to purchase. So please understand my disappointment now that I have installed it, and can't do so. I think this unfair. Most gamers out there use Nvidia hardware, so in doing so you have alienated a large amount of your consumer base. We've spent the money on hardware that allows us to enjoy our games the way we want to, and then spent money on your product. I feel it is ridiculous that we must miss out on this level of depth and immersion that your devs have put into this game, because we made the "wrong" choice in hardware. I would love to play this game in all its 3D glory.

That's all I have to say. I really hope you will work with Nvidia to address this, and give us the opportunity to get our money's worth. I'd love to hear some feedback from Eidos about what, if anything, is being done. I have to say, if the situation remains thus, sadly, I will not be purchasing one of your games again.

Thank you.

120Gigabyte
30th Aug 2011, 09:31
I can't believe that you don't support the de facto industry standard on stereoscopic playing.

And the next thing is, that you can't even configure it right if you get it to work on the crappy AMD HD3D Hardware. Yes, i mean the convergence setting which is fixated on an unusable level. :mad2:

Eidos cries like any other publisher on pirated copies, still you are not able to get the basic technology right.

MaxxQ1
30th Aug 2011, 09:45
Don't hold your breath on that one. Maybe cryogenic freezing.... which they do now if your interested.

No thanks... I have an aversion to cold. Frostbite and all that, ya know.

120Gigabyte
30th Aug 2011, 11:37
@ Nixxes
It really galls me when devs try to implement 3D because it usually goes wrong. In the good old days of last year, when all devs were anti 3D, all their games worked in 3D! That includes 3D Vision, iz3D and DDD (don't know about AMD's solution). They worked because they looked for info within the Direct X code most games are programed in and if there were glitches, driver updates would fix certain issues whilst graphic options would sort out the rest (disabling crosshairs, shadows etc).

This is all of the issues summed up in one post. The Eidos Devs made an epic fail in implementing stereoscopic 3D the broken way they did. The next epic fail is the marketing, which made big announcements that they support S3D, where in fact they only support it for the smallest userbase out there. All the devs had to do is: nothing. Let the drivers handle the conversion and check the game once in while in the development for artifacts, ghosting or wrong effects.

And to all forum members in here who complain about S3D is just a gimmick: Who questioned you? If you don't use it: shut the f .. up and go away, no one need you trolls in here.

josh6135
30th Aug 2011, 15:11
I can't believe that you don't support the de facto industry standard on stereoscopic playing.

And the next thing is, that you can't even configure it right if you get it to work on the crappy AMD HD3D Hardware. Yes, i mean the convergence setting which is fixated on an unusable level. :mad2:

Eidos cries like any other publisher on pirated copies, still you are not able to get the basic technology right.
I agree with you, however I think making a more polite post in here might make Eidos care a little bit more. It seems that the only people in here that are irrational and rude are AMD video card owners and people who despise nvidia 3d vision for insane reasoning. Do not stoop to their level we all be better off.

PhylaX
30th Aug 2011, 18:11
Hi,

I am a 3DVision user for many years, and I am upset at Eidos for not mentioning the lack of Nvidia 3DVision support for your game.

For those without 3D, I'm sure you have your opinions, thats fine, but go away, and please stop hijacking this obviously important thread. Have some respect.

+1 count me in for 3DVision support.

Agafous
30th Aug 2011, 19:45
I'm an happy 3D user -3D vision from Nvidia- (no, i don't suffer from Headaches, colour loss, bad luck or god knows what), and a great fan of Deus Ex, as i have finished the 1st one many times.

I have also been mislead by advertisement about 3D in DE:HR, and bought the game without being aware that it was impossible to play in 3D except with the still very confidential AMD HD3D (As said earlier in that topic, many games work very well in 3D without being specially programed for 3D).

I do understand that creating and selling games is just a work, that at the end a game is simply a "product", and that some agrement with AMD may have prevented developpers to work too far on the Nvidia 3D solution, but i'm sure that most of the people who worked on that game are proud of the result, and wish that this Deus Ex would be as famous as the first one. Everyone who has played with a proper 3D solution (no, not the anaglyph) will tell you: the immersion in a game in 3D is way better. All the work done on DE:HR intends to give the players a good immersion (scenario, tactical possibilities, cyberpunk artwork and background...): why on earth would deloppers/producers want to take away the possibility to experience the game in 3D to the most common 3D users, i.e. 3D vision users?

Please, that lack of support is a nonsense from my point of view.
(sorry for typos and style, english is not my native language)

+1 count me in for 3DVision support.

ohsorry
30th Aug 2011, 22:14
+1 for 3D Vision Support.

I preordered the game after reading about 3D stereoscopic support (which made no mention of being AMD only). Thankfully, I read on the 3D Vision forums of impending support issues, so I canceled my order. I won't be buying this game until it supports 3D Vision. Too many people have not seen the impressiveness of a proper stereoscopic 3D implementation, and just whine that its a waste of resources. It would not take that much work for Eidos/Nvidia to get things working. Instead Eidos and AMD decided to cut off half of the games 3D audience (if not more). Shame!

John

I_have_2_eyes_4_a_reason
30th Aug 2011, 22:49
So for all us poor deluded gimmick loving myopic pc gamers, do Eidos have an official stance on this yet?

A simple "we are actively engaging with Nvidia to make this game fully compatible with 3d vision" would suffice.

I_have_2_eyes_4_a_reason
30th Aug 2011, 22:55
Oh and don't forget, if you need to convince the bean counters.
I'm sure any experience making this game what it should be (for us 3d vision owners at least) is bound to pay dividends in future in this crowded market place.
3D isn't going away despite the despisers, so if Eidos want to set themselves apart and set a trend then please make the effort and capitalise on this expanding market.

spainb
31st Aug 2011, 01:09
I would like to voice my support for NVidia 3d Vision.

I've throughly enjoyed the experiece of playing FPS games, such as Portal 2, in NVidia's 3d Vision, and would enjoy the experience of playing DX:HR in the same manner.


Thanks for any and all consideration.

Mike.P
31st Aug 2011, 04:44
Just thought I'd chime in again... Kind of silly that this thread has over one hundred posts now, and not one response from Eidos or a dev.

Come on, do you people care at all about your customers? It's our purchases that pay your salaries, by the way. It would be nice to see some sort of acknowledgement for our concerns, at the very least.

andysonofbob
31st Aug 2011, 07:04
It is really hard to explain what gaming in 3D is if you haven't. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not compare it to cinema, they are very different animals

Analogy 1
Imagine walking around and the only way to see the world was from the lense of the video camera you were holding in front of your face. It might be fun at first using the single camera screen as your eyes, but would soon get tiring having to use it to view the world like that all the time...

Imagine the difference, moving the screen away fron your face and being able to see properly using your two eyes in our depth filled world. That is exactly what gaming in 3D is!

Analogy 2 (why 3D gamers find it hard to play in 2D)
Imagine if you could only play a new album from your favourite band/artist once or how ever many times you play a game. Would you want to listen to it in stereo or mono? Now I can play a game without sound (not as good obviously) but I cannot play it without visuals.

I hope that helps as it can be frustrating to wonder why 3D gamers dont just play amazing games in 2D if you haven't tried it. 3D Vision, the most enjoyable and well used toy I have ever owned!

Peter_RIP
31st Aug 2011, 15:24
Just thought I'd chime in again... Kind of silly that this thread has over one hundred posts now, and not one response from Eidos or a dev.

Come on, do you people care at all about your customers? It's our purchases that pay your salaries, by the way. It would be nice to see some sort of acknowledgement for our concerns, at the very least.

Swimming into the sea of speculation, we might get some later-on support when devs are done polishing the game itself and improving it for AMD users (and let's not forget about the "www.13311tower.com (13=B 3=E 11=LL)" thing), but who knows for sure? Right now I'd just be happy knowing whether a small collaboration with NVIDIA is possible or not. Guess I'll have to be patient, forget about the game for a while and punch myself for preordering the collector's edition (by the way, the action figure is cool). If said collaboration is not possible, I'll punch harder :lmao:

INSTG8R
31st Aug 2011, 16:47
Well I guess to a point I can relate a little to this. I am a TrackIR owner and there has been games that I have to kick and scream to get it supported(Mostly Sims of course)
But I will state once more it pleases me greatly that AMD have screwed NV users for once rather than the other way around. Because NV have been WAY more guilty of screwing ATI users out of certain features in games than ATI/AMD ever have been.

Suck it up buttercup finally it is AMD/ATI have some exclusivity. No "TWIMTBP" on this one fellas.

andysonofbob
1st Sep 2011, 14:55
I would rather this didnt slip too far. Is there any more news for nVidia 3D users? It would be great to hear from the devs either saying they will be working with nVidia (nVidia having been on this very board offering help) to improve 3D or not.

An official reply would be gratefully received. :)

Thanks!

Peter_RIP
1st Sep 2011, 14:58
Well I guess to a point I can relate a little to this. I am a TrackIR owner and there has been games that I have to kick and scream to get it supported(Mostly Sims of course)
But I will state once more it pleases me greatly that AMD have screwed NV users for once rather than the other way around. Because NV have been WAY more guilty of screwing ATI users out of certain features in games than ATI/AMD ever have been.

Suck it up buttercup finally it is AMD/ATI have some exclusivity. No "TWIMTBP" on this one fellas.

Can you take full advantage from your exclusivities? Speaking of 3D, I just think they might be a little too exclusive, at least for now. No hate from me, I would and I will feel the same way on opposite occasion;)

Remnant
1st Sep 2011, 15:14
Well I guess to a point I can relate a little to this. I am a TrackIR owner and there has been games that I have to kick and scream to get it supported(Mostly Sims of course)
But I will state once more it pleases me greatly that AMD have screwed NV users for once rather than the other way around. Because NV have been WAY more guilty of screwing ATI users out of certain features in games than ATI/AMD ever have been.

Suck it up buttercup finally it is AMD/ATI have some exclusivity. No "TWIMTBP" on this one fellas.

Yup, time for some payback for the Batman AA antialiasing lock-out and the Crysis 2 LOL-tessellated barricade & ocean under land. Not to mention the complete fail that PhysX represents, if they compiled in SSE instead of x87 there would be no reason to run any of the effects on the graphics card at all...

Not that I'm against the idea of patching in support for nVidia 3d, just pointing out that with the attitude nVidia has taken on other things you can expect to have it turned around on them occasionally.

Gotta give em credit where its due though, FXAA looks really good for a shader AA. First time we've seen such a solution compare with the gold-standard of multisampling.

klownk
1st Sep 2011, 18:25
I'm a 3D vision user and it's really a wonderful technology. It will be very nice to see it in this game !

+1 count me in for 3DVision support.

murry
2nd Sep 2011, 13:44
Yup, time for some payback for the Batman AA antialiasing lock-out and the Crysis 2 LOL-tessellated barricade & ocean under land.
And Nvidia USERS where involved in this how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

tet5uo
2nd Sep 2011, 17:58
This kind of crap just hurts the whole industry.

People are going to be alot more hesitant to adopt any of these new technologies when they'll never be able to know if they're buying the "right" one that will actually get support from devs in their games.

andysonofbob
2nd Sep 2011, 19:50
This kind of crap just hurts the whole industry.

People are going to be alot more hesitant to adopt any of these new technologies when they'll never be able to know if they're buying the "right" one that will actually get support from devs in their games.

A great point; well put.

What really hurts is that there is no reason for it. Unlike the early graphic card 'wars' where you could understand people writing code for difference hardware achitecture, this is totally unnecessary because the software can be made to work on any 3D solution.

As I have said before, in the glory days of last year when all devs were anti-3D, their games could be made to work on DDD, iz3D and 3D Vision!

Remnant
3rd Sep 2011, 01:02
And Nvidia USERS where involved in this how?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Of course not. I never said nvidia users have anything to do with it. We're all consumer sheep like in any other industry. Go on to some Crysis 2 forums and complain about poor performance on your AMD hardware and they'll tell you to get nVidia because its "better" - well its just so happens that AMD is "better" in this case, so you can expect that same response in some form.

Which is exactly why I said:

"just pointing out that with the attitude nVidia has taken on other things you can expect to have it turned around on them occasionally"

Anticompetitive actions have become all too common in many industries, and of course it doesn't help anyone in the long run. But its not like nVidia is going to stop doing this anytime soon, so why should AMD?

If DXHR had "The way its meant to be played" plastered all over it you wouldn't be complaining eh? But then someone else would...

Regardless, there still are not any morally justifiable reasons to do this, only financial incentives.

Libertine
3rd Sep 2011, 04:01
Anticompetitive actions have become all too common in many industries, and of course it doesn't help anyone in the long run. But its not like nVidia is going to stop doing this anytime soon, so why should AMD?

Because its bad business, its like two idiots playing monopoly saying ill give you $10 of my money as long as........you give me $10.... I hope the Nvidia exec's learned a lesson with this.

Well, i still haven't bought it yet, no plans to until 3D support is added, thats another reason.... I don't know how many more there are like me, but there you go.

andysonofbob
3rd Sep 2011, 08:26
I haven't and won't buy the game either.

Also, what have nVidia done? Just Cause 2? Cuda Water and boka(?) filter. Both of those are hardly game breaking! Who cares with either of them? Both effects are minor really and entirely scene dependant. Oh no! The water doesnt look as good when I am on land and cant see it or flying and cant see it! pfft!
The Witcher? The devs has said more than once on their site that they would have been happy and wanted to include other 3rd party solutions along with nVidia's but ATI just weren't interested. Just because they are a larger dev, it doesnt mean thay have a free pass into the inner workings of AMD/ATI. Whose fault is that then?

Also 3D not working is a killer. For many 3D gamers, you dont want to go back to 2D - ever. Someone posted an assumption that if the game's good enough, 3D gamers are willing to play it in 2D. That might be true for a minority but clearly there are plenty, even here, who disagree. TBH this is really quite sad, though totally understandable to 3D gamers. Gaming in 2D is not nearly enough of a sensory experience for a 3D gamer. And that's what most video games try to be: an awesome sensory experience.

Bercut
3rd Sep 2011, 10:31
+1 count me in for 3DVision support.

This game deserves 3D for everyone.

Peter_RIP
4th Sep 2011, 14:27
Well, at least Nixxes's post about new upcoming PC features brings some hope. Whatever happens, I'm pleased to say this is the most successful 3D Vision thread I've ever been in and Nixxes/Square Enix should at least acknowledge that: talking about 3D on Mycrysis.com has always been extremely difficult, with non 3D users bashing all the time and trying to make Dead Space 2 3D-working was a total defeat earlier this year. 3D related threads usually don't get more than 3 or 4 posts elsewhere.
Since I mentioned Crysis 2, I'd like to assure some users here that the game has visual glitches and bugs on Nvidia cards, too. I could finally enable 3D nearly four months after launch just to find out my Nanosuit menu is completely invisible (I can see the rotating arrow, but not the icons) and let's not talk about flickering textures on streets and structures. I'll stop here before I go too off topic.

waldosukbat
7th Sep 2011, 19:28
Hello hello I am a 3D Vision user, and I am playing the game in 2D and loving it. But I really hope that the game eventually will support 3D vision. And to those people saying that 3D is a gimmick you haven't played a full game like Mass Effect, which is way cooler than watching a movie in theaters. In any case rock on Eidos love the game please support 3D vision :)

Guz911
7th Sep 2011, 23:13
Count me in on the 3dvision support for DX:HR. Should definetly be in Eidos' priority fix list.

tet5uo
8th Sep 2011, 01:09
There is a user right now working on what eidos forgot.

he's creating a wrapper to let the game use it's native stereoscopic mode with the nvidia driver.

Dukehuna
8th Sep 2011, 13:39
Please add Nvidia 3D Vision support. I've tried over 200 games with my 3D Vision and I love it. I am holding off playing further hoping that the correct 3D settings will be fixed for 3D Vision. It's a beautiful looking game, I can't wait to play in 3D! Thanks!

Peter_RIP
8th Sep 2011, 15:04
There is a user right now working on what eidos forgot.

he's creating a wrapper to let the game use it's native stereoscopic mode with the nvidia driver.

The news has appeared on a 3D Vision blog and it's on Nvidia forums, too, but I don't know if spreading it is a good idea:

1) While I admire the will and skill of the guy, doing this solo without any "official" support might prove too tricky, especially since the 3D Vision driver gets frequent updates and he would probably have to change his code all the time

2) I'm no lawyer, so I don't really know about it: is this legal? Can it be considered an emulator of an exclusive technology? Maybe it would be better if it also worked the other way around...

3) So far, all we've seen of this project is just a messy Youtube video which might be bogus

I'd stick to a painless, official 3D Vision support through a future patch. Self made efforts like the one we're discussing may go nowhere, but at least they prove how badly Nvidia users want 3D on this game!

tet5uo
8th Sep 2011, 18:32
YOu'd be surprised at how many user-made hacks fix games where devs never do.

I wouldn't have been able to play about 75% of the games I do with triple-wide resolutions on 3 screens if it weren't for smart people figuring out how.

polorsport
11th Sep 2011, 11:31
Any update from eidos about adding nvidia 3D vision support?

Pantsu
11th Sep 2011, 15:59
I highly doubt this game will ever get 3D Vision support. The game already has HD3D support done by AMD and advertised as such. Sure marketing can just say "3D" but you can't expect that 3DVision is automatically included. it's a proprietary standard of Nvidia, and requires Nvidia's driver support. There's not a lot of games AMD/Nvidia are willing to sponsor and create features for, and even less those that both want to market. Basically only the most hyped games like BF3 get that sort of treatment. Nvidia does have better developer relations and there's lots of good and not so good games like Lost Planet that have Nvidia made features like 3DVision or PhysX. AMD have only recently made some more effort with games like DA2, Shogun II, Dirt series and DX:HR. This is pretty much the situation in the PC world at the moment, games are console ports and if you want DX11 effects or 3D, it means either Nvidia or AMD is helping with those, and the game will run properly only on right hardware, at least until the competition gets their driver fixes ready.

justalookinggl
12th Sep 2011, 11:30
Look a lot of people invested a lot of serious money(money don't grow up trees,so unless you are rich you have to work and save money from something else(holidays,cars...) to built a decent computer....So i expect i can play this game on 3d with my expensive nvidia card and my 3d monitor....

The same applies to the game's horrible low resolution texture....I mean is it so much asking about a decent pc version.As it is this is a cheap rushed ps3 port...The video cinematics are extremely compressed compaired to ps3 and only 720p(with washed out colors) to conserve a second disc.The textures had to be low res on ps3 and x360 as ps3 has only 256mb of video memory and the x360 even through it can use up to 512mb realistically it uses 256mb only too(as memory is needed by the system's os and game's engine)

Everyone with a recent computer has a video graphics card with over 1 gb of memory and anybody with a gaming video card like a 480gtx or a 570-580gtx has up to 3gb of ddr5 or even ddr6 grade memory...And nvidia 3d vision is supported by all decent cards from the 8800gtx/ultra upwards...And with a fast processor you could play at full hd with 3d even with a 280 gtx with at least 60 fps...


Please ,please and again please if anybody from the devs read these forums do an update with 3d support,better textures and release the uncompressed cinematics YOU ALREADY HAVE for download....

josh6135
13th Sep 2011, 03:41
Any update from eidos about adding nvidia 3D vision support?at least from what i have seen eidos could care less about posting in this thread.

Trippy72
13th Sep 2011, 06:33
It takes some effort to get advanced graphic effects to render properly in stereo vision. They've put in that effort, but only supported some new 3D system that practicly no-one owns? That's like making a car with built-in GPS but only supplying road maps for Antarctica.

I can't understand why the producers of 3D content are doing everything in their power to make consumer 3D fail. I can't watch Avatar in 3D without buying a specific brand of Panasonic TV, and now I can't play this 3D game in 3D without buying a new graphics card - sorry, but I like my existing TV and I spent a lot on my 3*580 SLI setup.

So I'm not going to buy this game either, as a protest against these practices. If it had no 3D support at all, I would have bought it, but to put in the 3D support but prevent the most popular 3D system from running it feels like an insult. So stuff you too Eidos...

tet5uo
13th Sep 2011, 09:04
Technically the game supports Nvidia 3d just fine. It's just that it doesn't enable without detecting radeon graphics driver.

Peter_RIP
13th Sep 2011, 13:32
at least from what i have seen eidos could care less about posting in this thread.

They haven't closed it, either...

tet5uo
13th Sep 2011, 19:17
They haven't closed it, either...

Well, why do that. We've been relatively civil so far :)

rajkosto
14th Sep 2011, 07:23
I wonder if they will close it now ?
My HD3D to 3D vision wrapper is in such a state that it can be used by the public !
You can go try out the beta version i released on my webpage: http://rajko.info/hd3d/
The big delay was because i was trying hard to fix the soft shadows problem, in many different ways, but gave up at the end.
Have fun

tet5uo
14th Sep 2011, 18:06
I wonder if they will close it now ?
My HD3D to 3D vision wrapper is in such a state that it can be used by the public !
You can go try out the beta version i released on my webpage: http://rajko.info/hd3d/
The big delay was because i was trying hard to fix the soft shadows problem, in many different ways, but gave up at the end.
Have fun

Nice. I'll have to check this out!

I've been holding off playing though due to being one of the people with the mad stuttering when walking around, will wait on that fix from eidos before I play.

Arthur Hucksake
14th Sep 2011, 18:16
We will eventually get it working in 3D Vision, there has to be a way. Pretty much all games support it, just that some don't work too great.

AMD's 3D offering is pathetic. Just be grateful we got a huge choice of 3D supported games as it is.

tet5uo
14th Sep 2011, 19:38
We will eventually get it working in 3D Vision, there has to be a way. Pretty much all games support it, just that some don't work too great.

AMD's 3D offering is pathetic. Just be grateful we got a huge choice of 3D supported games as it is.

Check a few posts up. Someone's got something hacked together lately to enable 3d with nvidia now.

Peter_RIP
15th Sep 2011, 00:15
I wonder if they will close it now ?
My HD3D to 3D vision wrapper is in such a state that it can be used by the public !
You can go try out the beta version i released on my webpage: http://rajko.info/hd3d/
The big delay was because i was trying hard to fix the soft shadows problem, in many different ways, but gave up at the end.
Have fun

You know, as a "computing science guy" myself, I truly admire and even envy your skills in a field I wouldn't know where to start. Since Nvidia talked about your project, you should probably contact them and see if they have jobs for aspiring 3D Vision developers. However, I'd like to play this game in 3D like I'm playing Portal 2 right know: no depth constraints, no crashes, no glitches, no compromises with AMD's 3D solution. Don't get me wrong, if I hear nothing within three months or so, I'll be happy to try your project ;)

I almost forgot, thank you for the hard work in the name of 3D justice!

rajkosto
15th Sep 2011, 05:57
Well, then you could try to get nvidia to agree to let middleware (iz3d, ddd) use the 3d vision stereo output ? this might be impossible if its impossible to disable the autostereozation on everything except the final quadbuffered pass. I say middleware because you aren't going to get stereo changes from nixxes (they set it up for comfort based on QA sessions and the like), and nvidia isn't going to bust their ass to provide driver hacks for a game which received compensation from AMD, so middleware is your only option

(maybe nixxes could provide registry only options for setting some separation multiplier or something like that, or a convergence offset, but there won't be such things in the official menus)
also, there are no "aspiring 3d vision developers', because stereo is such a niche market still nobody cares about it, and actions like single vendor support alienating the rest of the user base just strenghten this claim
any time there's stereo, it's either done as an afterthought by the developer, or they just make their game normally and get the nvidia guys to implement some hacks (in exchange for the meant to be played logo)

Peter_RIP
15th Sep 2011, 23:44
Well, then you could try to get nvidia to agree to let middleware (iz3d, ddd) use the 3d vision stereo output ? this might be impossible if its impossible to disable the autostereozation on everything except the final quadbuffered pass. I say middleware because you aren't going to get stereo changes from nixxes (they set it up for comfort based on QA sessions and the like), and nvidia isn't going to bust their ass to provide driver hacks for a game which received compensation from AMD, so middleware is your only option

(maybe nixxes could provide registry only options for setting some separation multiplier or something like that, or a convergence offset, but there won't be such things in the official menus)
also, there are no "aspiring 3d vision developers', because stereo is such a niche market still nobody cares about it, and actions like single vendor support alienating the rest of the user base just strenghten this claim
any time there's stereo, it's either done as an afterthought by the developer, or they just make their game normally and get the nvidia guys to implement some hacks (in exchange for the meant to be played logo)

Considering past facts, it wouldn't be the first time an AMD based game receives 3D Vision support a few months later. I know Darksiders (an example of such AMD game) came out with no initial 3D support and the story might be different in Deus Ex, but still... Also, let's not ignore that said Darksiders was not exactly a PC blockbuster, but Nvidia still "busted their ass" for it. I don't know what kind of support this game could get: it might be something like Crysis 2
or the separation multiplier you talked about, which in the end would work just like most 3D Vision enabled games available today (you enable 3D from the Nvidia control panel and there you go with no in-game options needed).
All I know right now is that I post in this thread because the 3D vision manager encouraged me and other users on the Nvidia forums to do this. He also said he was getting in contact with the developers, so, in theory, there is a small chance Deus Ex might get broader 3D support some day.
As for "aspiring 3D Vision developers", I meant the Nvidia guys who go and "implement some hacks". Mine were genuine appreciation words.

tet5uo
15th Sep 2011, 23:49
Well the latest patch notes mention things they want to include in a future update are Nvidia-surround and 3d-Vision. So there we go :)

I'll stop whining how haha.

Peter_RIP
16th Sep 2011, 00:02
Yup, noted it after I had already posted, but I regret nothing! Oh well, this is the first successful 3D Vision thread I've ever been in. Peace and congrats to all

rajkosto
16th Sep 2011, 00:20
well, my wrapper still works (you need to use beta 2 now for 1.1.630, get it at the same page as before http://rajko.info/hd3d/)
and i've added unlocked max separation, you can change the value in the registry and it will use it now
this is what it looks like with 50.0 separation (previous max was 11.0) http://images.rajko.info/dxhr30_99.jpg
but this game is like 17 days old now, i doubt the ATI exclusivity deal will expire before a few months go by

spainb
17th Sep 2011, 04:25
Wonderful news that 3D Vision support is coming!

Jamir
18th Sep 2011, 16:20
Wonderful news that 3D Vision support is coming!

Well i tested the wrapper and it works. I have read that AMD3D was not so good in this game. It seems that there is no 3D after all, all the game does is move the 2D plane in 3D space at least that is the how it looks and there is same amount separation close and far objects. Poorest "3D" i have ever seen. I hope it's the wrapper that do not function some wierd reason but because game itself is handling 3D"rendering" i think it's not the wrapper to blame. Menus look good anyway. Let's hope 3D we can get real 3D rendering or at least Crysis 2 level "virtual3d" with 3D vision. But anyway game itself feels like a master piece, it deserves good 3D.

rajkosto
19th Sep 2011, 01:09
holy crap
you are right !

http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-09-19_03.11.37.jpg
and unless someone can take a screenshot of the game in native hd3d mode, i'm going to assume it's like this in hd3d as well
confirmed that it's not the fault of my wrapper, using interlaced mode for zalman displays, took screenshots, moved every other line to the left untill they matched:
http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-09-19_03.28.09.jpg
http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-09-19_03.33.51.jpg

someone with a hd3d setup please confirm (even camera taken pictures through the glass lenses are ok)

Libertine
19th Sep 2011, 03:57
You want them to take a photo of the screen, not through the glasses. So we can see the amount of separation.

Heres what realistic separation looks like btw:

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/6960/separationcomparison.jpg

Thats a 46" screen and the furthest separation is several inches apart.

rajkosto
19th Sep 2011, 04:30
through the glasses is better too...i can line up both eye images and see if theyre identical everywhere, or they separate over in the distance
while if they take a picture of the screen, i have to go and measure pixel distances between an object in the front and one in the back, see if they are the same

arfWignack
19th Oct 2011, 06:59
Bumping this thread because the latest patch includes 3D Vision support.

I'm certainly very stoked, and bought the game today because of them adding support. I want to encourage developers whenever I can.

BTW, I'm a software developer too, and support of S3D is actually free to the developer- unless they make mistakes. It doesn't have to cost extra time and money to add support, but it does when bugs are introduced. Examples: faking shadows with post processing techniques. Adding blur around lights for fake halo effects. Those are typically done as optimizations for weaker video card support. I can't blame any developer for trying to make it work on slow systems, but there should always be a no-tricks code path for simplicity and compatibility.


My setup is an H5360 projector, 3D Vision glasses, GTX580. DLC projectors make for absolutely zero ghosting/crosstalk.

It's not cheap, but playing in stereoscopic on a 10' screen is a truly stunning experience. REALLY looking forward to Deus Ex Human Revolution on this setup.

Soureal
19th Oct 2011, 18:09
Thanks for 3D Vision Support !!

uxnhoj123
19th Oct 2011, 21:21
Is it just me . . . or did the 3D vision support not actually provide any support for 3D vision? I checked over on the Steam forums and seemed to have gotten the same sentiment there.

The weird lighting/shadow effects are still there - a shadow or light is visible through one eye but not the other, ruining the 3D effect and turning it into a headache inducing flash show. All of the in-game 3d options are still redded out; they clearly made changes, but I still can't use them. Performance went to hell.

What am I missing?

Libertine
20th Oct 2011, 02:35
There are lots of reports of 3D with low depth. No thanks... Looks like im still on track to buying this game for $5 off of steam 6 months or so from now. Ill wait till this is fixed. I sit 1 meter, and less, away from a 46" 3DTV screen and when you increase your FOV like this, the perceived depth is lower than for someone with a lower FOV, like someone using a 22" monitor. Theres tons of guys using projectors and larger screens who will be disappointed too. This low depth stuff definitely fuel the "3D is a gimmick" crowd because what this IS A GIMMICK.

NixxesSoftware
21st Oct 2011, 21:10
Some comments on the 3D vision support (and to some extend the support in general).

- The native 3D mode for the game works only in DX11 mode. The DX9 mode would fall back to automatic driver based 3DVision that we as a developer do not support. For problems with this mode please contact Nvidia.

- The game does not allow you to turn on 3DVision from the in-game settings, you have to turn it on via the 3D Vision tools and/or using the toggle button on the 3DVision device.

- We have heard about some cases where you need to toggle off and back on the 3DVision to get it to work correctly.

- Once you have enabled 3D (and this is true for both HD3D and 3DVision) there are two settings that can be toggled in the advanced video settings menu. Stereo 3D Strength and Stereo 3D Plane. This last one is new for the latest patch and can be used together with the first setting to create a much stronger stereo effect.

- If the above settings are red that means 3D is not enabled in the game, please check your 3DVision settings to see if a culprit can be found.

- Perhaps obvious, but please note that 3D is only available in fullscreen.

rajkosto
22nd Oct 2011, 20:08
well done nixxes, you completely botched the stereo 3d support, for both platforms it seems !
the stereo 3d strenght just affects the UI stretchyness and how far back the image planes are recessed into the screen
the stereo 3d PLANE option just affects the GUN separation, which is rendered twice, but the rest of the scene is still 100% FLAT !

screenshots taken with max separation with varying levels of stereo plane:
http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-10-22_22.03.25.jpg 0% stereo plane
http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-10-22_21.57.33.jpg 70% stereo plane
http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-10-22_21.59.40.jpg 100% stereo plane
100% stereo plane and separation in pretty much the longest hallway in the game: http://images.rajko.info/Screenshot-2011-10-22_21.38.25.jpg

of course, these images were taken after i offset the right image so that we can remove the fake "in screen image plane" effect, revealing only the true 3d rendering, of which there is none (other than on the gun, which is what was added in this latest patch)

so yes, you pretty much implemented the "Crysis 2 XBOX DEMO" stereoscopic method (not retail crysis 2, even though its fake there's actual 3d there), which makes 3d look like a complete gimmick !

tet5uo
24th Oct 2011, 03:27
EDIT: Got it to work sort of.

It enables 3d vision in the game now, but it's not looking right. Some of the lighting effects aren't rendering at the proper depth. Is that normal?

Libertine
25th Oct 2011, 03:28
So this is not full, realistic 3D, even after the patch?

tet5uo
25th Oct 2011, 18:40
Not for me.

Even when 3d is enabled in my control panel and working in the game, things don't seem to render in the right depth and there is no way to change the options in game the 3d options are still red and unchangable.

Libertine
26th Oct 2011, 04:22
You should list your setup with driver versions so they can try to fix it while the developers are still here...

tet5uo
28th Oct 2011, 16:11
3 way SLI of gtx580's with 285.62 drivers.

Libertine
11th Nov 2011, 01:10
the stereo 3d PLANE option just affects the GUN separation, which is rendered twice, but the rest of the scene is still 100% FLAT !

I've seen some screen shots in 3D that have some depth, many in fact, but it is not nearly enough to present a realistic, full 3D effect on my 3D setup.

@Nixxes

The allowable adjustments need to be wider. And much wider for those that like the "toyification" effect. I personally don't, i just like a realistic look, as if i was standing there in the scene, which i can't achieve with these settings. I sit about a meter away from a 46" 3DTV i use as a monitor. Its great and i prefer over my last 2D monitor, the 3007wfp-hc 30" 2560x1600 Dell... But when you move towards the screen like this, or increase your field of view of the screen, the depth of the scene flattens out. Andrew with Nvidia says the depth is locked on your end. I assume these are some numbers that need to be changed, thats all, can we do this please? I'd really like to play this game.

Libertine
11th Nov 2011, 01:11
the stereo 3d PLANE option just affects the GUN separation, which is rendered twice, but the rest of the scene is still 100% FLAT !

I've seen some screen shots in 3D that have some depth, many in fact, but it is not nearly enough to present a realistic, full 3D effect on my 3D setup.

@Nixxes

The allowable adjustments need to be wider. And much wider for those that like the "toyification" effect. I personally don't, i just like a realistic look, as if i was standing there in the scene, which i can't achieve with these settings. I sit about a meter away from a 46" 3DTV i use as a monitor. Its great and i prefer over my last 2D monitor, the 3007wfp-hc 30" 2560x1600 Dell... But when you move towards the screen like this, or increase your field of view of the screen, like thsoe that use projectors, etc, the 3D depth of the scene flattens out. Andrew with Nvidia says the depth is locked on your end. I assume these are some numbers that need to be changed, thats all, can we do this please? I'd really like to play this game.

Libertine
13th Nov 2011, 21:04
bump...has there been any comments from the devs anywhere on this???

Libertine
23rd Nov 2011, 11:39
Lets try that again, shall we...

Libertine
6th Jan 2012, 09:17
I just bought the game for $40. I was going to wait until it went to $5, but it looks too good not to support the developers with some hard earned cash. So far it looks like a fantastic game. I like all the actual geometry used in the labs and the city scape is amazing to look at, especially in 3D ( at least with Tridef). However, i thought the 3D would be better than it is, going by some of the screenshots i see. For me its unusable with 3D Vision due to the lack of separation, it just looks flat. Normally, 3D Vision or Tridef produces a 3D picture that makes the game world look as though its been laid out in front of you. This looks like 2D to 3D conversion. That might not even be a problem for users with screen giving them a narrow FoV, but when you move closer to the screen, 3D depth rapidly diminishes.

Tridef almost has it working in DX9, but the shadows and the halos around the lights are not working right. I think they are at screen depth, making it unplayable imo. In DX11, Tridef simple disables all lights, lighting, shadows, even fire. Yet in both these modes, the depth is fantastic and it normal [aka, like your there in the scene]. However, this too is obviously unplayable.

Is there anything the developers can do here? If you could help Tridef get DX11 working, that would be amazing. Also, as far as the build in solution, please try it in 3D on a 46" 3DTV sitting 1 meter away or on a projector to test how it looks.

I promise to shout from the rooftops about HR if you make a change :)

For now, i think i'll hold off on playing in case you fix this and/or release a texture pack or something. If you decide you can't do anything, please let us know that too.

andysonofbob
6th Jan 2012, 13:17
I can't see me buying this game even if it is only £5... or even £2!

Because of its rubbish 3D, I would likely never play it. £2 would be £2 wasted.

Going to 2D from 3D feels like gaming in the stone age. If you hadn't played DE1 when it first came out I wouldn't blame you for buying it for a couple of quid, if you could, as it is a great game. But would you *really* play it? Would you play DE:HR despite the quality of the gameplay with DE's graphic engine? I dunno...

I feel Libertine's pain; a game as good as DE:HR would be soooo good in 3D. Skyrim is an awesome game, doubly so because of the quality 3D. (The devs have famously stated they couldn't care less about 3D but it still rocks!)

Eidos, Why limit the depth? 3D games are NOT the same as 3D movies! Like overly loud music, 3D gamers can turn depth down if it is too much.

Libertine
10th Jan 2012, 23:42
Holy crap.... i just noticed the message from "Nixxes" about further development is really old. So i guess development is over? If anyone needs this in the future, make sure to try Flugan's stereo strength and stereo plane modifying program found on the Nvidia forums. It helps get a perfect realistic amount of stereo separation for i think any display i would think. Doesn't help the situation with Tridef though, which I use to get a better resolution (over 720p).