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HWG
26th Aug 2011, 13:43
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8N-khbdko4

Video explains it all. It's not just the revolver... :|.


PLEASE fix this Eidos... :\

Dr_Bob
26th Aug 2011, 14:03
"This is actually totally realistic. The barrel is an inch below the sights, causing what's known as sight offset." - asdfzxc920

HWG
26th Aug 2011, 14:18
Dr Bob then you would also know that firearms are parabolic projectiles ... that they travel in an arc that follows a parabolic path. You would also know that "sight offset" is zeroed for distances preferred by that specific firearm. Point is, Dr Bob - that there is no parabolic modeling in Deus Ex and because of that, a "feature" like "sight offset" shouldn't be in the game. I suppose the revolvers ironsight that veers off to the left is sight yawwing? Please.

Don't try to be a smart ass. This is a game, games should behave naturally and organically. This was a piss-poor modelling and alignment job.

And I've been shooting firearms for over 6 years, put thousands of rounds down range and I have never heard of sight offset. Ever. Even more - say Sight Offset is a variable - this applies to RIFLES ONLY... as your "Box of truth" states. I've also NEVER heard of a SELF-DEFENSE trainer telling people to shoot an offender in the head. If you want to go to jail, for shooting someone who broke into your home allegedly, shoot 'em in the head. You'll get 5-25 years.

Bullets don't fly straight Dr Bob. They fly with a parabolic model.

It's a bug. Not a feature. Shaddup.

You are not as smart as you think.

Dr_Bob
26th Aug 2011, 14:21
Dr Bob then you would also know that firearms are parabolic projectiles ... that they travel in an arc that follows a parabolic path. You would also know that "sight offset" is zeroed for distances preferred by that specific firearm. Point is, Dr Bob - that there is no parabolic modeling in Deus Ex and because of that, a "feature" like "sight offset" shouldn't be in the game. I suppose the revolvers ironsight that veers off to the left is sight yawwing? Please.

Don't try to be a smart ass. This is a game, games should behave naturally and organically. This was a piss-poor modelling and alignment job.

And I've been shooting firearms for over 6 years, put thousands of rounds down range and I have never heard of sight offset. Ever. Even more - say Sight Offset is a variable - this applies to RIFLES ONLY... as your "Box of truth" states. I've also NEVER heard of a SELF-DEFENSE trainer telling people to shoot an offender in the head. If you want to go to jail, for shooting someone who broke into your home allegedly, shoot 'em in the head. You'll get 5-25 years.

Bullets don't fly straight Dr Bob. They fly with a parabolic model.

It's a bug. Not a feature. Shaddup.

You are not as smart as you think.

Spare me the lecture, I was just quoting the guy who commented on your video.

HWG
26th Aug 2011, 14:22
And I'm just repeating what I've already stated.

Ark_raven
26th Aug 2011, 14:24
HWG Is this on PC or one of the consoles? I've been using ironsight for the revolver on PC and never encountered this... Going to try with the Zenith now.


Edit: Just tested it from a few different distances with a stock zenith. I get bulletholes lined up between the sights. maybe a few centimeters to the left or right if I'm at an extreme range, but I'm not getting that drop that you have in your video.

Maybe one of the mods alters the accuracy in return for it's benefit?

HWG
26th Aug 2011, 14:30
I'm on PC. I assume since they are shared assets - they are in the same ballpark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOk6dz68P9Y Someone did a video for the revolver.

Ark_raven
26th Aug 2011, 14:32
No idea at all then... There's a slight bit of falloff of precision at range, but the accuracy seems to be basically between the sights for me.

Riddik116
26th Aug 2011, 14:45
its on console as well i think, cause i thought i was having issues with the revolver... no wonder i was missing.

Keiichi81
26th Aug 2011, 15:44
Dr Bob then you would also know that firearms are parabolic projectiles ... that they travel in an arc that follows a parabolic path. You would also know that "sight offset" is zeroed for distances preferred by that specific firearm. Point is, Dr Bob - that there is no parabolic modeling in Deus Ex and because of that, a "feature" like "sight offset" shouldn't be in the game. I suppose the revolvers ironsight that veers off to the left is sight yawwing? Please.

Don't try to be a smart ass. This is a game, games should behave naturally and organically. This was a piss-poor modelling and alignment job.

And I've been shooting firearms for over 6 years, put thousands of rounds down range and I have never heard of sight offset. Ever. Even more - say Sight Offset is a variable - this applies to RIFLES ONLY... as your "Box of truth" states. I've also NEVER heard of a SELF-DEFENSE trainer telling people to shoot an offender in the head. If you want to go to jail, for shooting someone who broke into your home allegedly, shoot 'em in the head. You'll get 5-25 years.

Bullets don't fly straight Dr Bob. They fly with a parabolic model.

It's a bug. Not a feature. Shaddup.

You are not as smart as you think.

Even if it WAS sight offset, why wouldn't it be modeled with the laser sight as well? I mean, the laser is mounted as far UNDER the barrel as the iron sights are mounted above it, so shouldn't rounds be impacting slightly above where the laser indicates?

And wow, I haven't used the revolver much yet. That's just BAD.

Brockxz
26th Aug 2011, 17:06
lol I didn't notice that until after reading here about this and than trying that myself. Did not notice that because I play silent type without actually using the guns :D

flunkorg
26th Aug 2011, 17:09
HWG Is this on PC or one of the consoles? I've been using ironsight for the revolver on PC and never encountered this... Going to try with the Zenith now.


Edit: Just tested it from a few different distances with a stock zenith. I get bulletholes lined up between the sights. maybe a few centimeters to the left or right if I'm at an extreme range, but I'm not getting that drop that you have in your video.

Maybe one of the mods alters the accuracy in return for it's benefit?

I'm with ark on this one.
And I used the revolver the most in my playthrough :l

Evanovic
26th Aug 2011, 23:03
Surely the bullet hits the laser point because of the effect of gravity pulling the bullet down (I assume this is what the 'parabolic-arc' is refering to). Despite there not being a parabolic-arc function in the Deus Ex physics engine surely its reflecting the reality of where the bullet is going to hit anyway, the way they have done it? You don't need a parabolic arc effect to be able to tell a bullet to hit a point slightly lower than aimed for. The laser-sight is about an inch below the barrel opening and therefore the 'parabolic-arc' effect (which is actually just depicted by the bullet heading in a straight line to a slightly lower point than aimed for) pulls the bullet downwards so that it hits the laser dot almost exactly opposed to hitting directly above it.

Here's a diagram of what I mean: (not to scale)

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6263/bulletroute.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/bulletroute.png/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

As you can see, all seems to be logical except the path shape of the Bullet, yet that doesn't matter because it lands on the same logical spot as it should.

Evanovic

HWG
26th Aug 2011, 23:36
Actually Evanovic, not to be a nit picker, but the line of sight for the ironsight would actually intersect with the parabolic arc. Pull back the slide on a pistol, the barrel is actually aiming slightly upward.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/TargetShooting3.gif

ishiki
26th Aug 2011, 23:40
Actually Evanovic, not to be a nit picker, but the line of sight for the ironsight would actually intersect with the parabolic arc. Pull back the slide on a pistol, the barrel is actually aiming slightly upward.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a8/TargetShooting3.gif

but wouldn't that only make the gun comepletely acurate at the intersection. Meaning it becomes less accurate at the incorrect distance. Though probably for a videogame it should just hit where you aim it. HAH I remember shooting skeets at a range with a bent site...

I haven't noticed... It seems to hit when I aim correctly, and not hit when I screw up. but I haven't tried to be precise.
I tried to notice. but I still don't really. I mean, I'm real fidgetty anyways so my hand always moves.

VectorM
26th Aug 2011, 23:51
I sure miss the old days of regen health whining.

motsm
27th Aug 2011, 05:27
Deus Ex isn't ARMA people, it's a bug plain and simple. Needs to be fixed, doesn't need MS paint graphs.

cartridge
27th Aug 2011, 05:48
I noticed this too, with the tranquilizer rifle when shooting over cover. The dart/bullet was actually hitting the top edge of the railing I was taking cover behind when shooting through the scope OVER the cover. There was also several instances where I would shoot a tranq dart at an enemy (even in the head) and it didn't touch him. Like, at all. It didn't hit anything around him either or even get his attention, it was like I was shooting blanks.

This is a very real issue, has nothing to do with the physics of the bullet. This game doesn't even have bullet physics, they travel on a straight, coherent path.

EDIT: So I guess this issue isn't limited to only iron sights, it was happening to me through the rifle scope aiming over cover.

supersheep3000
27th Aug 2011, 06:06
Not only a bug with Ironsights. Tried hitting some drug dealers from a roof with Tranq Rifle and I had to aim a fair few inches above their heads to get a headshot. Annoying more than anything.

sodapop122
27th Aug 2011, 07:53
Not only a bug with Ironsights. Tried hitting some drug dealers from a roof with Tranq Rifle and I had to aim a fair few inches above their heads to get a headshot. Annoying more than anything.

Read the weapon info, champ.

Senka
27th Aug 2011, 08:18
I sure miss the old days of regen health whining.
<3

Not only a bug with Ironsights. Tried hitting some drug dealers from a roof with Tranq Rifle and I had to aim a fair few inches above their heads to get a headshot. Annoying more than anything.
lol

If we're lucking it'll get patched eventually, until then not much point arguing over the specifics. Unless you find that awesome fun.

ocstew
27th Aug 2011, 08:35
Not only a bug with Ironsights. Tried hitting some drug dealers from a roof with Tranq Rifle and I had to aim a fair few inches above their heads to get a headshot. Annoying more than anything.

Idiot read the weapon description. The dart drops fairly quickly. That's part of the game design.

bat2com
27th Aug 2011, 09:04
This thread make me lol so much xD

Montag
27th Aug 2011, 14:14
i like guns they sure is purty

P4NCH0theD0G
27th Aug 2011, 19:42
Can confirm this for Xbox 360, Combat Rifle. Shots are so far below the Iron Sights that when you shoot at a wall up to 10 yards away, the resulting bullet hole is so far down you cannot see it until you look down. If you try getting a head shot on someone in that range you have to aim so far above his head you can't even see the target anymore.

Huge disappointment.

KIRA829
28th Aug 2011, 02:08
I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.

ZakKa89
28th Aug 2011, 02:17
the guy in the video should really switch his FOV back to 75.

It seriously messes up the gun models

Skillet
28th Aug 2011, 05:06
I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.

From my experience... this guy is exactly right.

The whole point of the laser sight in the game is so that you'll know exactly where the bullet will hit when you fire around cover or from the hip.

To be perfectly honest, I think you (the OP) is overthinking this waaaay too much. I've been using firearms for over ten years and I've also put thousands of rounds down range, and I still find this a completely pointless reason to stop purchasing games from a company.

It's like saying "If Eidos doesn't stop creating such unrealistic worlds for their fictional video games, I'm going to stop buying them. Have you seen Eliza's clothes? PUH-LEEZE!"

:rolleyes:

P4NCH0theD0G
28th Aug 2011, 05:17
I find this happen only when you put the laser targeting mod on the guns. I loaded a save without the laser sights on the weapons and the bullets land exactly on the tip of the iron sights. I also used the laser mod on the sniper rifle and I had to aim above someone's head to head shot them while scoped in. Without the laser, the bullet will hit exactly at the cross hair of the scope.

True. At least for the Combat Rifle. In the Intro Mission you get the CR with the Laser Sight. Accordingly all bullets land where the laser points, even when you're looking through the Iron Sights. Just try shooting at a wall first with the Laser Pointer (the bullet will hit exactly where the laser pointed), then, without moving or changing where you aim, look through the Iron Sights and fire again (the bullet will hit somewhere you can't see it), then exit the Iron Sights and you will see that the Laser again points exactly at what will now be two very closely grouped bullet holes. In the next mission you get the standard CR if you ask for it, and all bullets land exactly where they should according to the Iron Sights (the 10mm Handgun and the Machine Pistol, too for that matter).

Huge Flaw. This is actually really embarrassing for the devs. They have to fix this. Quickly. There's really no excuse for this.

P4NCH0theD0G
28th Aug 2011, 05:30
From my experience... this guy is exactly right.

The whole point of the laser sight in the game is so that you'll know exactly where the bullet will hit when you fire around cover or from the hip.

To be perfectly honest, I think you (the OP) is overthinking this waaaay too much. I've been using firearms for over ten years and I've also put thousands of rounds down range, and I still find this a completely pointless reason to stop purchasing games from a company.

It's like saying "If Eidos doesn't stop creating such unrealistic worlds for their fictional video games, I'm going to stop buying them. Have you seen Eliza's clothes? PUH-LEEZE!"

:rolleyes:

Whether or not he's "over-thinking" it, there is simply no excuse for letting the laser-sight targeting override the Iron Sights. Which is exactly what happens here: It's not "The Laser points where the bullets will fly" but "the bullets will fly where the laser points, even if you aim down the Iron Sights and can't really see the laser". So what, I have to choose between the Laser Sight or the Iron Sights? I can't have both? How exactly does that go with any semblance of either reality or video game logic?

This has to be fixed. It's preposterously obvious and hugely detrimental to the game. It's in the very first mission you play, the very first taste of combat you get is broken, and I've known people to put down games for much less. It's something that I might even consider a game breaker, and it does not speak well of both Eidos and its QA/game testers. No matter who you blame, something like this should never get past the beta-testing stage.

Skillet
28th Aug 2011, 05:35
Whether or not he's "over-thinking" it, there is simply no excuse for letting the laser-sight targeting override the Iron Sights. Which is exactly what happens here: It's not "The Laser points where the bullets will fly" but "the bullets will fly where the laser points, even if you aim down the Iron Sights and can't really see the laser". So what, I have to choose between the Laser Sight or the Iron Sights? I can't have both? How exactly does that go with any semblance of either reality or video game logic?

This has to be fixed. It's preposterously obvious and hugely detrimental to the game. It's in the very first mission you play, the very first taste of combat you get is broken, and I've known people to put down games for much less. It's something that I might even consider a game breaker, and it does not speak well of both Eidos and its QA/game testers. No matter who you blame, something like this should never get past the beta-testing stage.

When it comes to the combat rifle or the 10mm, it doesn't matter THAT much. At least not as much as you claim it does. It's off by a few centimeters at most. I still manage to score headshots whether I aim down the sights with those weapons or not. Saying that it breaks the game is a gross overstatement. You might as well say that the lack of iron sights at all on the Heavy Rifle breaks the game.

Now the Revolver.... that's something to complain about.

P4NCH0theD0G
28th Aug 2011, 05:57
I'm sorry, but I have to work around an obvious shortcoming in a product that I paid good money for? A product that presumably has gone through thousands of hours of testing and testing and more testing? I don't expect the world or a perfect game, but this is something so incredibly obvious, it becomes a matter of principle.

Just go ahead, start a new game, and when you get the CR, fire a few shots at a wall in front of you. When the wall is less than 5 yards away, you CAN'T EVEN SEE the bullet holes you make when aiming down the Iron Sights. It means that if I want to head-shot someone in that distance I have to aim so far above his head that I CANNOT SEE his head anymore.

As to still getting head-shots, you're sure that's not the recoil and barrel rising? Because the second or third shot from the CR will pretty much hit where your Iron Sights aim. But again, that's a work around that I just shouldn't be forced to.

And the argument with the Heavy Rifle is actually supporting my point: My gun has Iron Sights. When I aim down these Iron Sights I expect my gun to shoot where I aim with my Iron Sights. If it doesn't shoot where I aim with my Iron Sights my gun is broken. But if my gun doesn't have Iron Sights there's no problem.

Now, I could "understand" things like a general misalignment of certain guns, or bullet drop, or a glitch or something that just causes the aim to be off. But this isn't any of these things. It's nothing hidden. It's not a complicated, unexplainable bug that can only be rectified by going through millions of lines of code with a fine-toothed comb. It's one targeting mechanic overriding another for no good reason.

It simply happens because someone forgot to put a line of code into the game that says: "If ADS=true : Laser Sight = False", which means "When aiming down the Iron Sights, the Laser Sight targeting is switched off." That is all.

The fact that this "problem" is painfully obvious in the very first mission only adds insult to injury.

I'm sorry if I go off at this, but this is really something that goes against my very strong feelings of professional pride. Is the game still playable: Yes, sure. I like it. But it is a problem that just shouldn't be there.

Daedatheus
28th Aug 2011, 07:26
So this is straight-up just a little bug that occurs due to the laser sight upgrade only. Should be easy to fix...

lukeman3000
28th Aug 2011, 08:42
You guys are completely right, you shouldn't have to ignore it or deal with it.

ocstew
28th Aug 2011, 10:09
This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.

motsm
28th Aug 2011, 10:23
This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.The revolver shoots high and to the left in the video, so that's not really true.

Evanovic
28th Aug 2011, 12:36
Despite it being unrealistic its hardly a game-breaker and this is definitely an overreaction. If you're not prepared to face bugs, which exist in ALL games, many of which will be fixed, then you can just go away and miss out on the fun that you'll get from the rest of the 99.9% of the game.

Its fine to argue for it to be fixed but to say that you'll never ever buy a game from the company just because of this tiny bug is just tantrum-driven overreaction. You deserve to miss out on their games for such disproportionate judgement.

Evan

P4NCH0theD0G
28th Aug 2011, 15:33
This forum is full of whiners, but then again I'd expect the people who are satisfied with the game to be playing it or possibly replaying it. Aim for the head and you will hit the neck or above, and still land a headshot, it's really that simple. The bullet might hit lower than expected but it still goes in a horizontal line, there is no bullet drop on pistols in this game.

If I expect a venerated and experienced game developer and its publisher to make sure that such very annoying and painfully obvious issues are not present in their own multi-million-dollar product, especially not something that becomes apparent in the very first mission; if I expect the QA department, as well as all the other people, whose only job it is to play-test the game to do their jobs properly; if I expect to find the standard that the developers by all public accounts hold themselves to in the game I purchased, I'm a "whiner"? Fine, then so I am. And I'll keep whining.


Despite it being unrealistic its hardly a game-breaker and this is definitely an overreaction. If you're not prepared to face bugs, which exist in ALL games, many of which will be fixed, then you can just go away and miss out on the fun that you'll get from the rest of the 99.9% of the game.

Its fine to argue for it to be fixed but to say that you'll never ever buy a game from the company just because of this tiny bug is just tantrum-driven overreaction. You deserve to miss out on their games for such disproportionate judgement.

Evan

This is NOT a BUG in the traditional sense. It's a flaw, an obvious shortcoming that can be linked to one very specific reason, not some mysterious happenstance that nobody knows why it happens. It is a very basic, very obvious malfunction, a result of seemingly lacking diligence: The Laser Sight overrides the Iron Sights when it is equipped. To find things like that is the job of a whole department in any game development and publishing house. By extension this throws a very bad light on the whole product: "They didn't care enough to fix something so basic and obvious, what else will there be waiting for me later on?"
You are probably right, it is an over-reaction. But if you had been waiting for a game for months, maybe even years, you read the high praise in the reviews (where nobody mentioned this, btw) and get even more excited, then in the first mission you have to find out that your gun doesn't shoot where you aim it. So you restart, reinstall, do everything you can but the problem still persists. A lot of people might already put down their controller and think about selling it, by now. Others play on, and after a while they find out what the reason is: Not a mysterious line of code or a miniscule flaw in the programming or a chain reaction of things nobody could possibly have known would happen. No, what it seems like is either lazy programming or extremely lazy game testing, since the problem can be specifically linked to one very common condition, every time all the time. And I can fully understand how someone would get very, very angry at that point.

Every game has bugs. But there is a whole department of people playing and testing the game for up to four months before release, and something obvious like this should never ever be allowed to go past the testing stage. Never. Even if the reason for the misalignment wasn't so painfully obvious, it should never have happened.
This is still a shooter. Not being able to shoot where you aim is inexcusable.

Just to maybe put it into a different tack:

You play a racing game. In that game you buy and apply one of three available steering upgrades for your car. But with the new upgrade the car veers to the left when you drive in First-Person mode. If you drive in 3rd Person mode, everything is fine. If you disable the upgrade the car drives straight again, even in First Person. With the upgrade you can't drive in a straight line. The upgrade breaks your First Person driving experience. Yet you would like to drive in First Person. But you can't. Not with the upgrade.

Wouldn't you be angry about that?

HWG
28th Aug 2011, 22:59
Just to maybe put it into a different tack:

You play a racing game. In that game you buy and apply one of three available steering upgrades for your car. But with the new upgrade the car veers to the left when you drive in First-Person mode. If you drive in 3rd Person mode, everything is fine. If you disable the upgrade the car drives straight again, even in First Person. With the upgrade you can't drive in a straight line. The upgrade breaks your First Person driving experience. Yet you would like to drive in First Person. But you can't. Not with the upgrade.

Wouldn't you be angry about that?

By all means man, THIS is the essence of my discontent! Maybe I went about it harshly, and rather crude - but when I play a game where one of the primary methods of combat is shooting a gun, I want that gun to work like I would think it should.

See past the fact that I might be nitpicky, especially after having shot so much in my own life, guns are something I'm passionate about - so when they don't follow basic protocol in games, I get frustrated. See why I hate Call of Duty... under almost no circumstance should a 9mm round ever approach the stopping power and range of a 7.62x39 or a .30-06.

DukeLetoIII
6th Jul 2012, 05:32
did this ever get fixed?

I played through this game twice and never noticed this, yet on my 3rd playthrough now i'm using the revolver finally, and holy cow is that one off.

Shralla
6th Jul 2012, 18:46
For the record, this is one of those bugs that never got fixed that I was complaining about when EM released the second of all two updates they put out for the game, and it's one that effects EVERYBODY, not just a small segment of the people playing the game.

Romeo
6th Jul 2012, 19:10
Guys, the "iron sights shoot high" and "laser sight shoots low" have been documented extensively in the Sniper Rifle thread. It is a case of the iron sights being above the barrel a few inches, meaning at close range they can be quite far off. The laser sight has the precise bullet trajectory, but when using the iron sights, you need to aim "above" where you normally would, as the laser sights effectively replace the bullet's hitbox.

And yes VectorM, I'm with you.

JCpies
6th Jul 2012, 21:40
VectorM lives?

Romeo
7th Jul 2012, 05:51
I assume so, unless he got a little too personal with a moving bus.

DukeLetoIII
15th Jul 2012, 21:01
Guys, the "iron sights shoot high" and "laser sight shoots low" have been documented extensively in the Sniper Rifle thread. It is a case of the iron sights being above the barrel a few inches, meaning at close range they can be quite far off. The laser sight has the precise bullet trajectory, but when using the iron sights, you need to aim "above" where you normally would, as the laser sights effectively replace the bullet's hitbox.

And yes VectorM, I'm with you.

I hadn't notice it with other guns, but wasn't using the revolver until this playthrough--and it is definitely off in a different way (though apparently still due to the laser mod)... see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOk6dz68P9Y

I guess i can learn to shoot low and to the right, or just use the laser, but if it were my gun i'd have that sight aligned in a jiffy.

VectorM
19th Jul 2012, 18:06
VectorM lives?

I sure hope so.


I guess i can learn to shoot low and to the right, or just use the laser, but if it were my gun i'd have that sight aligned in a jiffy

Honestly, with the revolver you don't really need to aim for headshots as much. And with the explosive rounds, the gun is pretty much LOLZIMBA, no matter where you shoot people, so it wasn't something that I ever noticed. I have this weird impression, that this is some leftover from a half-assed bullet trajectory system they had in place. It always seemed kinda weird to me that the tranq rifle is the only weapon where that is a thing to be considered. Then again, the crossbow in DX1 was the same, so I guess it's alright.

Smoke Screen
28th Aug 2012, 15:26
Well,just found this thread. And yeah,i also thought how poorly implemented the ironsights are.
It just hit me because i always play without crosshairs and shoot from the hip or use the
ironsights in fps. My first thought was :eek:. How could they mess this up :mad2:. Not enough
betattesting i suppose or just another try to get the player playing stealty....