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Charadesmith
26th Aug 2011, 09:05
So...what ending did you pick and do you think there's a particular "canon" one or they all seem to possibly fit (even if some more than others) and only a sequel would truly bridge the gap between what happens in HR and DE?

I transmitted Sarif's message. It seems like it could fit nicely into canon, however, even the others probably would, specially considering the post-credits easter egg. I think that they wrote all this with a mind on a sequel that could possibly have a "canon" ending. I'd be curious to see which one of these they'd chose to follow though

Jordasm
26th Aug 2011, 09:09
I'd say the blow everything up ending is canon. It explains why Jensen/Sarif/Taggart/Darrow wouldn't be mentioned at all in the original.

LandHawk
26th Aug 2011, 18:19
I'd say the blow everything up ending is canon. It explains why Jensen/Sarif/Taggart/Darrow wouldn't be mentioned at all in the original.

That's one way of looking at it, though if Page wanted to salvage some of Hyron it'd be difficult getting it off the bottom of the Arctic Ocean.

Given the endings, I was a little surprised they didn't tie more directly into DX1, though I realize it would've been difficult to give them variety and also maintain a consistent canon. That said, I do hope for a sequel that bridges the gap; there were a lot of ties present in the emails and some of the over-arching story, and HR did seem to have its own story and message to tell, which is good. It just seemed like there was a lot of potential there for a stronger interplay between the two, particularly given Jensen's unique genetic structure, the briefly-mentioned experiments at White Helix, and how the two could've tied into JC's origin and what we saw at Area 51 in the first game.

I will say I was slightly disappointed that they managed to put in pre-rendered cinematics for so much else in the game, but not the endings- It would've been nice to see how people reacted to the message, and the facility collapsing, if you go that route.

Also, as for what would make sense in terms of what we know about Jensen, I think he would've chosen to broadcast the truth- He spent so long uncovering it and seemed so resentful of when he was lied to it's hard to imagine him doing anything else. But if the world knew of the Illuminati, then DX1 never would've happened. Taggert's ending, and the only one I've seen so far aside from 'explode the facility for nebulous reasons', would explain why in DX1 we mostly saw mechanical augmentation in the form of Gunther and Anna, but it's hard to imagine strong regulation being put forth against HET that wouldn't affect the growing nano-augmentation programs; while this isn't so much an issue for DX1 since the Dentons were UNATCO's toys, the eventual spillover of nano-augmentation that we see in DX2 would be more difficult to explain. Although resolutions can be repealed...

The other two endings I'm saving as motivation to complete a pacifist playthrough. I tried it the first time and got to the end of the first China visit before I found out that the people you shoot in the prologue count against you. After that I decided to do my lethal badass playthrough first and started over.

TheVyrak
27th Aug 2011, 02:13
I'm at the compound where you contact the 3 scientists and then you have to get to Dr. Reed. Now after you upload Zuvchenko's (Not sure if that is actually his name) virus to the security terminal the scientists are supposed to coordinate a distraction that leads to a certain door opening. If I am not mistaken this door is right next to the security terminal. Problem is that door is not opening, even though in my quest log it says it should be open.

Having not realized it was a bug I ran around the compound looking for this door and it autosaved several times so there is no going back.

This would be a real bummer for something like this to happen 20 hours in. Anyone experience this before and fixed it? Or even better, am I just misunderstanding something and looking in the wrong place? Any help would be appreciated.

ReliantLion
27th Aug 2011, 02:18
I'm at the compound where you contact the 3 scientists and then you have to get to Dr. Reed. Now after you upload Zuvchenko's (Not sure if that is actually his name) virus to the security terminal the scientists are supposed to coordinate a distraction that leads to a certain door opening. If I am not mistaken this door is right next to the security terminal. Problem is that door is not opening, even though in my quest log it says it should be open.

Having not realized it was a bug I ran around the compound looking for this door and it autosaved several times so there is no going back.

This would be a real bummer for something like this to happen 20 hours in. Anyone experience this before and fixed it? Or even better, am I just misunderstanding something and looking in the wrong place? Any help would be appreciated.
I noticed the door was not open as well. However, I patiently waited about 10 seconds (long enough for them to get to the chopper), and the door opened. Have you gone back to that room?

TheVyrak
27th Aug 2011, 02:19
Yeah, I've been going back and forth hoping for something to trigger, nothing is happening.

SupahDonkeh
27th Aug 2011, 15:13
I'm very disappointed with the fallout 3 style ending. I really wanted to be able to free roam once the game was over. I don't mean free roam every level, I mean, free roaming China and Detroit. Finish the side quests, fully unlock my character to have every augmentation, explore every little thing, you know. So simple to implement, yet adds so much on. I bought the game assuming this was in... I'm very disappointed. Don't get me wrong though, loved the game.

Boradam
27th Aug 2011, 15:22
I'm very disappointed with the fallout 3 style ending. I really wanted to be able to free roam once the game was over. I don't mean free roam every level, I mean, free roaming China and Detroit. Finish the side quests, fully unlock my character to have every augmentation, explore every little thing, you know. So simple to implement, yet adds so much on. I bought the game assuming this was in... I'm very disappointed. Don't get me wrong though, loved the game.


If you are disapointed in this endings style I am lead to believe that you havn't played Deus Ex or Invisible War, as they both ended after the climax and cut right there. This is no 'Fallout 3' ending, it is simply what it is... an 'ending', not something that continues as then it would not be called an ending.

Being able to free roam would kill the build up and could ruin the build up and destroy some peoples satisfaction with the ending, I believe the book The Hobbit continued on after Bilbo left the Misty Mountains and had a bit to go before the end of the book, ending after he got home to the shire. Though I admit I havn't read any of those books for quite some time, the point is just that sort of ending can just drag on and ruin the cinematic build up.

My opinion, at least.

SupahDonkeh
27th Aug 2011, 15:26
Then don't do free roam if you don't like it.

I tried playing deus ex 1 and the expansion but I just couldn't. I became a PC gamer way too late so I had no appreciation for it, being about 2008 when I tried it.

Why can't there just be an ending where you get to play on for a bit? With the ending where you send darrow's message, what happens to adam then? He just sits in the room and starves to death?

ReliantLion
27th Aug 2011, 15:34
I understand what you're saying SupahDonkeh, but unless a game is sandboxy, like Fallout, it's hard to program the game to make sense to the player after he/she has beaten it. Take Mass Effect for example. I'd rather they just have ended the game at the end, because every conversation with people afterwards is really odd, especially if you didn't talk to them much before the end.

I do think they should have let you leave the final location, maybe go back and see the confusion of all the augmented people (they wouldn't know what you decided, unless you went left ;) ), and get back to civilization. But beyond that, why bother?

Riddik116
27th Aug 2011, 15:35
why rush to the end? why not just do the side quest before hand?

Boradam
27th Aug 2011, 15:39
Then don't do free roam if you don't like it.

I tried playing deus ex 1 and the expansion but I just couldn't. I became a PC gamer way too late so I had no appreciation for it, being about 2008 when I tried it.

Why can't there just be an ending where you get to play on for a bit? With the ending where you send darrow's message, what happens to adam then? He just sits in the room and starves to death?

Deus Ex is an amazing game, I'm not a long time fan of it as others as a friend of mine bought it for me. The first time I played it I was bored at Liberty Island and quit after an hour, but then I decided to give it another chance a few months later and I LOVED it, it was simply amazing.

Anyways, sorry but it still wouldn't be implemented in this kind of game, they may make a DLC that continues after the ending but it will most likely end as well.

Brian175
27th Aug 2011, 15:51
I understand what you're saying SupahDonkeh, but unless a game is sandboxy, like Fallout, it's hard to program the game to make sense to the player after he/she has beaten it.

Agree it makes sense for a game like Elder Scrolls, but this game is a great deal more linear. Free roam wouldn't make sense. There wasn't even that much to explorer. You didn't get to see it all in your first playthrough? I made a point to do every sidequest my first playthrough if just to maximize my character. It's usually how I play RPGs.

Piflik
27th Aug 2011, 17:06
Personally I am not disappointed because it had an ending, I think every story needs such a thing (at least every good one), but the endings themselves were really disappointing...just 4 buttons to chose 4 different monologues...nothing you did beforehand has any relevance...to get the Deus Ex Machina Achievement, all you have to do is save before you hit the button...

Also I wanted to know what happened right afterwards, like short-time consequences...

The game is great, the story is good (and surprising, at least for me...I always waited for a treason that never came...), but the ending sucks.

Boradam
27th Aug 2011, 17:50
Personally I am not disappointed because it had an ending, I think every story needs such a thing (at least every good one), but the endings themselves were really disappointing...just 4 buttons to chose 4 different monologues...nothing you did beforehand has any relevance...to get the Deus Ex Machina Achievement, all you have to do is save before you hit the button...

Also I wanted to know what happened right afterwards, like short-time consequences...

The game is great, the story is good (and surprising, at least for me...I always waited for a treason that never came...), but the ending sucks.

The best ending is the one without the button, honestly.

OhSorryOldHorse
27th Aug 2011, 19:12
What I'd like to know is what you guys think the ending shouldve been like.

Personally, I had no problem with the ending. And would gladly play through the game again.

Piflik
27th Aug 2011, 20:16
For one, decisions midgame should matter for the ending, not only 4 buttons after the endboss. Like rescuing Malik or not, killing important figures like Sarif, Darrow or Taggart, even winning certain dialogues.
Secondly it would be nice to tie up loose ends, like what happend to Malik, Megan and the Scientists after they escaped from Omega Ranch. What's with Tong and other persons met during the game. Megan's Mother, how did she react to her daughter being alive?
Thirdly I want to know what the immediate consequences are. Did the riots continue, did they escalate, what are the consequences of destroying Panchea...in essence did my actions have an impact on society?
Most importantly...what happened to Adam after Panchea?

As it is now, the story feels like it is a setup for a sequel, not making anything definite. Don't get me wrong, I do hope to see more Deus Ex games, but they shouldn't follow one continuity...give the story a real ending and start a new story in the same universe, with new characters...a good story needs closure.

Edit: Why the heck can't I incorporate spoilers into running sentences...my post looks like crap...:mad2:

TheYouthCounselor
27th Aug 2011, 23:35
Malik, Megan and the Scientists:

You didn't stay for the scene after the credits?

I hate to be a whiner but...

the epic conclusion(s) of this game that took four years to develop entailed pushing a button and watching a slideshow? Really? Plus there are only four different slideshows, it should've at least shown you the repercussions of your actions throughout the game ala the Fallout series, instead of having a limited variety of fixed narration and slides ala Fallout 3. I usually loathe voice over narrations especially if they're preachy, because it's way too blunt. But knowing the intelligence of most gamers they would've never understood the message without narration and the real world images. And Elias Toufexis did an excellent job. It wasn't a complete disappointment, it still had Michael McMann's moving musical score, some poignant points and images, and that awesome after credits scene.

As for me, I felt the destruction of Panchea ending and Sarif endings felt the most natural and consistent with the narrative. Throughout the story, Adam was either slowly falling to his death or slowly rising from the ashes. At the end, he found the answers he was looking for and either he wouldn't be able to cope with the weight and want to bury all the threats or finally come to grips with his future and the future of humanity, get up and move on. However the Sarif and Taggart endings seem like the only canon possibilities and these endings don't seem particularly mutually exclusive. Exposing the Illuminati would contradict Deus Ex 1 and I'm sure Eidos Montreal sees Adam as a lucrative IP whose story they want to continue, so having him die would be out of the question.

Piflik
28th Aug 2011, 00:29
I did watch the credits and the little scene afterwards, but that doesn't really answer what I was asking for...

Boradam
28th Aug 2011, 00:58
I believe the 'Suicidal' ending is canon as it explains the absence of any reference to Sarif, Taggart, Darrow, and Jensen though Darrow could just be considered a horrible man in history and just not referenced.

Sometimes its better for the truth to not be known.

EDIT: I keep hearing of this scene at the end of the credits which I missed, but its enough motiviation for me to do another playthrough.

OhSorryOldHorse
28th Aug 2011, 01:38
Someone explain to me what the post-credits sequence was? Cuz I skipped over the credits without realizing there could be something after haha.

And maybe it's just me, but it feels like they barely touched on the Illuminati and I feel as though there's more to them then whats in the game. I played the first Deus Ex and they featured quite a bit alongside MJ12, and I also read somewhere that this game would set up UNATCO being formed and the Statue of Liberty being attacked. So when that wasn't in the game, I was a little disappointed. *shrug*

Black-Xero
28th Aug 2011, 02:24
I picked the Darrow's message ending and it was more favorite of all 4. The one I mostly agree with.

Someone explain to me what the post-credits sequence was? Cuz I skipped over the credits without realizing there could be something after haha.

Just Bob Page meeting Megan Reed while telling her his name is Bob Page.

thetrac3r
28th Aug 2011, 03:56
I've almost never, ever, registered for a forum of a game I've played - to actually talk about the game's story. But I've loved Deus Ex since the beginning, and I wanted to see what the rest of the crowd thought about dear ol' Megan.

Like most people, I was glad that she was alive, and happy to have found her near the end...but then I actually started listening to what she was saying, and it left me...basically like this: O_O

So, Megan started off her career on an ambitious and controversial front: using Adam Jensen's DNA to perfect augmentation tech: no rejection, nanite level augs. The whole works - and something that literally would redefine what it meant to be human, and change a lot of people's lives (for the better, let's say).

Then, she gets kidnapped. And she gets talked into a complete 180 degree reversal in her philosophy. Augmentations don't help people - they make them dangerous. So now she gleefully starts work on a chip that allows some "higher power" to take away the basic humanity of an augment, turning them into a drone/literally being able to shut them down.

The other members of her team have their doubts. Even in SECLUSION/not having all the facts, these team members have started to guess at the true nature of the chip, and realize it's a downright horrible sin of an invention. Does Megan Reed realize this? No, and she has all the information.

So of course, everything goes horribly wrong, but thankfully I kept Malik alive in my play-through, and Megan magically gets saved with a comfy helicopter ride back home. And what does she do after the game ends? Goes to work for Bob Page, gleefully commenting about the potential of THE CHIMERA NANITE VIRUS.

TL;DR: So, what say you, Eidos forum? Can we nominate Megan Reed as a deranged sociopath/the true villain of human revolution, if there ever was one? :P

Ragequit
28th Aug 2011, 04:02
Maybe the secret subplot twist ending villian. I think Hugh Darrow has a lock on Main Villian

Random
28th Aug 2011, 04:23
Someone explain to me what the post-credits sequence was? Cuz I skipped over the credits without realizing there could be something after haha.

And maybe it's just me, but it feels like they barely touched on the Illuminati and I feel as though there's more to them then whats in the game. I played the first Deus Ex and they featured quite a bit alongside MJ12, and I also read somewhere that this game would set up UNATCO being formed and the Statue of Liberty being attacked. So when that wasn't in the game, I was a little disappointed. *shrug*

You can see the post-credits sequence here, at the 10 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMcd6-D4x8

It forges a number of links between Deus Ex and Human Revolution in a few lines of dialogue, though I'm not pleased with all them.

Bob Page is talking to Morgan Everett (who in DX1 is one of the Council of Five, the innermost circle of Illuminati members, and in HR is the CEO of Picus), telling him not to worry and that everything can be sorted out 'in time'. Basically it's saying that no matter what ending you chose Bob Page will still be able to manipulate things into what we see in Deus Ex 1.

Edit: also he tells Everett to keep searching the wreckage of Panchaea for anything they might use for the Morpheus Initiative, which is their AI project that results in the Icarus and Daedalus AIs from Deus Ex 1, the project designed to monitor global communications. So basically HR says that Everett/Page effectively copied Darrow's work. Which I think sucks because they were not some thieves of others' ideas; Everett was a genius and Page is protege, a mastermind. HR's ending undermines Everett's and Page's stories which I'm disappointed about. And Everett was a brilliant engineer, not the head of some global media empire. He was more Hugh Darrow than Rupert Murdoch.

Then Megan Reed arrives and greets Page, saying she didn't really have anywhere else to go to pursue her line of work. Page says she'll be excited by their projects, and Reed agrees, saying the 'nanite-virus chimera' looks interesting. It seems to be implying that Megan is involved in the development of the gray death virus from Deus Ex 1.

It's a nice link I suppose, but a bit silly considering you can find emails in HR that reveal Bob Page's involvement in things, so if Jensen is alive you'd think he'd tell Megan about Page. The game doesn't take into account that you might have uncovered Page's involvement. Or maybe it's just saying Megan is unethical? A bad end for her in any case.

(Edited to fix a few details.)

Dentrick
28th Aug 2011, 04:42
She may have some ridiculous grand vision in mind, or she may just care only about research. She might be working on the virus thinking that everyone in the whole world should be augmented, only to find out later what their use of it was going to be. Hard to speculate at this point.

If she's evil, then she was lying to Adam about how great Darrow was near the end.

If she's gullible, she might be working on the virus thinking that she is doing a good thing.

Fuzzman
28th Aug 2011, 04:53
I think it's more likely that she complies with the Illuminati, and eventually Bob Page, because they recognize the significance of her work far more than anyone else--especially Page--and can provide enormous resources for the research.

Despite Sarif's eagerness to explore her work, her being held in captivity for six months probably changed her loyalties a bit, particularly if she has been exposed to the far reach and wealth of the Illuminati.

As a scientist, she probably believes that her work can ultimately help people. Page, as we all know, has other plans.

Ragequit
28th Aug 2011, 04:56
She also seemed dodgy near the end when you finally find her after so much searching...very suspicious

Random
28th Aug 2011, 04:59
Not deranged but sociopath might be appropriate. She seems to want to pursue these things out of an inherent fascination with seeing what's possible, with little thought given the consequences or how her work might be used.

Redem
28th Aug 2011, 05:19
If I'd have to compare Megan Reed to anyone, I think it would be MJ-12 troops, basicly her identity was eaten away by the conspiracy, she no longer has much stake in the world if only to work test tube for the Illuminati, in a way her isolation influence her from morality and humanity

You have to admit her break-up with Jensen led to some pretty dramatic consequence :D

JobeGDG
28th Aug 2011, 05:54
I think she's in it for the work, and all of her "helping people" guff is just that. Essentially, I agree with Random; she's in it for a problem to solve. And I loved discovering that about her.

Ifandbut
28th Aug 2011, 06:11
I was very disappointed that all the endings were 90% stock footage. After all the great CG movies it was a huge let down.

I was expecting something along the lines of the movies from Invisible War or DX:Conspiracy.

Also, one ending I was hoping for but did not pan out:
When I saw Zhao linking up with the machine I was hoping that the 4th ending would involve Jensen linking with Hyron (like a early version of JCD-Helios).

Myself, I chose the Sarif ending. It felt right because in Deus Ex 1 I chose to merge with Helios, in Invisible War the ApostleCorp ending.

miraa
28th Aug 2011, 06:33
I think she wants to work on the latest technology no matter who's cutting the checks. At the end of the game, Page is working on advanced nanotechnology, the stuff that will create JC Denton. Of course he's doing it for his own personal ambitions which you can see in Deus Ex. I don't think Reed cares though, as long as she's working on cutting edge science, what it's being applied to doesn't bother her in the slightest.

She seemed to have a lot more freedom than the other scientists, and as others have said, more info. I don't think she's innocent at all. And if she's responsible for the Grey Death, that makes her even more of a villain.

Random
28th Aug 2011, 06:34
Yeah Sarif's ending is more in the spirit of JC Denton's story.

Daedatheus
28th Aug 2011, 07:07
I agree with the opinion that states she's a bit of sociopathic character, even her early claims of "helping people" are just for show as she walks past a typhoon demonstration and gives the military personnel details on the tech right afterwards. Her loyalty is to the progress and work, nothing more really...

The sad part is that this is all really far-reaching conjecture, because frankly, for a character that the protagonist and the player is supposed to feel connected to strongly, she REALLY was not developed nearly enough.

I have the same problem with Zhao, she was another terribly undeveloped character, yet is supposed to be pivotal and shows up all over the place at key instances, and we have no idea who she really is or what her intentions are, or why we should even care.

Enemy242
28th Aug 2011, 07:23
I have the same problem with Zhao, she was another terribly undeveloped character, yet is supposed to be pivotal and shows up all over the place at key instances, and we have no idea who she really is or what her intentions are, or why we should even care.

You do if you read all the emails and pay attention. It's pretty obvious what her intentions are, she essentially owns a huge corporation, has a gigantic ego, and wants to be all powerful. In emails it shows how she wants profit as she isn't affected by the fact that some of their prosthetic limbs are not strong enough/defective, she has no remorse for capturing the scientists and that entire situation, her company has taken out and absorbed almost all other companies in the field before going after sarif so they can be the ruler of the market, she wants to interface with the computer so she can control everything and be the one voice for the world; essentially she is a huge egomaniac who wants to control the world and have absolute power and will do anything to get it.

The beauty of this game and what really makes it a Deus Ex game, is there is no main evil bad guy character. You can claim that bob page is it in deus ex (because he's the one you go after) and make the same connection in human revolution, but almost every character has that bad side and it's all shades of grey. Darrow is bad because he started the whole augmentation issue/drove people insane and tore it all down, depending on what view you hold, megan was bad in that she basically took adams dna to use it for augmentation without him knowing and essentially worked on developing a kill switch, but also at the start had hoped that she would be helping humanity and always was working for the benefit of science, missing some of the consequences, zhao was completely evil but not really a major player and was just like any evil corporation we can think of now etc.

TheYouthCounselor
28th Aug 2011, 07:29
http://deusex.com/game/characters/megan


Megan Reed is a scientific genius, a leader in the field of human enhancement technologies, and the most prominent neuroscientist working for Sarif Industrie. She is in her early thirties, Caucasian, and completely unaware of how good-looking she actually is.

Reed grew up in Seattle, the only child of two doctors who both decided early on that family life would never interfere with their careers. Left on her own more often than not, the young girl compensated by developing a rich inner life; today her fertile imagination enables Reed to connect information and extrapolate it toward a theoretical endpoint in great intuitive leaps. Unfortunately, she also has a tendency to become so focused on her thoughts that everything else fades in the background.

Relationships with others have suffered.

So, this alludes to that she could be social awkward or even anti-social and maybe even sociopathic.

Enemy242
28th Aug 2011, 07:39
You guys are seriously hilarious.

first off, come on, not waiting around past the credits? OH MAN GAME IS OVER, GOTTA JUMP TO NEXT THING, ADD. a lot of games have things after the credits, so even if you don't want to acknowledge all the work everyone did/check out the pictures you should at least know something usually comes after the credits (if you've been playing games pretty much for longer than a week of your life).

second, did you really just expect the endings to completely tie into deus ex and set up the story for the game we all know? how does that help? we all know what happens in deus ex, and i doubt the writers wanted to be charged with basically writing EXACTLY what comes before it and connects to it, because while the game is a prequel it has a feel of it's own and isn't meant to replace what the original did. the endings were more philosophical, and them playing out like they did made perfect sense as that's how the original game did it, that's how invisible war did it, and in the end it presents YOU with the choice of what do you think is right. it's not a build-up-to-this-ending sort of thing, it's saying you've played the whole game, you've seen all this, where should humanity go now?

and i think in the end the choice that was "meant" (obviously they are all good/bad in their own ways, that's how all the deus ex games are and way the endings were supposed to feel) to play out in that it goes most with the feel of the story/world was the destroy everything. people trying to choose the path for humanity, people trying to evolve the species through science, people just trying to guide everything etc has gotten us everything we have. no matter what you choose or believe, right or wrong, there will be consequences good or bad, and that ending essentially states that showing how one man can't try to lead the entire world. adam gives up that choice and leaves it to the world to choose it's fate together, as opposed to trying to lead like the ego of one man in sarif, taggart or darrow because he's seen what that can cause.

overall i'm very satisfied with everything in the game. the gameplay and audio and presentation were amazing of course, but the story really outdid itself. the philosophical questions and the commentary on where we are and where we're going is really deep and hard hitting, and shows how games can be just as (or even more so) affective than other forms of media. the endings really had me sitting there not sure what to choose for 2 minutes, just like when i played previous deus ex games back in the day. the fleshing out of the world in emails and conversations was just marvelous too, i can't even imagine how much work had to go into that continuity. seriously, just perfect and truly kept the spirit of the game and philosophy behind it alive.

only continuity error i found was:
in picus if you read emails, morgan everett is in one talking about stuff and it's implied he's working for the company, showing the backstory of how he was in the high ranking media outlet leading/relating to the illuminati etc, but one thing was there another email that is signed nicolette duclaire. i'm not sure if they were trying to make a nod to the original with that one, but even if you assume nicolette is like 35 in deus ex (she looks/acts more like she's mid-late 20s and couldnt' possibly be 40 or older) that would mean that she's 10 in human revolution, and couldnt' be an employee at picus (not even a receptionist, and the email implies more). it makes sense for morgan, but really not for her. if they had it signed beth duclaire that'd make a lot more sense and fit better, but even if they were just trying to make a nod to the original game it makes no sense and was pretty jarring.

Zorvan
28th Aug 2011, 07:49
She's a manipulative user who uses her "affections" to get what she wants. She's a scientific prostitute.

She went from Adam ( who she discovered had special DNA ) to Sarif ( it's made obvious through early dialogue there's something between them, and he's her key to using the DNA she took from Adam plus she also makes sure he hires Adam so the source of her discovery is still close at hand) to Namir ( "Is that you, Namir?" she asks with a smile as Adam walks into her bedroom ) and then to Bob Page ( unknown at this time how far their relationship will go ).

zeropride
28th Aug 2011, 07:52
you realize the title of your thread is a big ass spoiler right?

Daedatheus
28th Aug 2011, 08:04
first off, come on, not waiting around past the credits? OH MAN GAME IS OVER, GOTTA JUMP TO NEXT THING, ADD. a lot of games have things after the credits, so even if you don't want to acknowledge all the work everyone did/check out the pictures you should at least know something usually comes after the credits (if you've been playing games pretty much for longer than a week of your life).

Actually it's even easier than that. Not too far into the credits, Alexander Brandon (composer for DX1) is credited for the music in the "Post Credits Bob Page Ending," which caught my eye, and made me realize that I should probably wait through the rest of the credits sequence. Which I usually do anyway, but I knew to expect something...

Enemy242
28th Aug 2011, 08:15
to be honest anyone playing any game where they value the story shouldn't be checking the forums after the release date until they beat it. you're bound to run into spoilers and if you really don't want to see any, then just don't check websites associated with the game where people are probably discussing it. hell, i was so into the game that i seriously did not check any gaming related sites once i got the game just to be positive i wouldn't encounter any spoilers up until i beat it.

TheYouthCounselor
28th Aug 2011, 08:54
You guys are seriously hilarious.

first off, come on, not waiting around past the credits? OH MAN GAME IS OVER, GOTTA JUMP TO NEXT THING, ADD. a lot of games have things after the credits, so even if you don't want to acknowledge all the work everyone did/check out the pictures you should at least know something usually comes after the credits (if you've been playing games pretty much for longer than a week of your life).

second, did you really just expect the endings to completely tie into deus ex and set up the story for the game we all know? how does that help? we all know what happens in deus ex, and i doubt the writers wanted to be charged with basically writing EXACTLY what comes before it and connects to it, because while the game is a prequel it has a feel of it's own and isn't meant to replace what the original did. the endings were more philosophical, and them playing out like they did made perfect sense as that's how the original game did it, that's how invisible war did it, and in the end it presents YOU with the choice of what do you think is right. it's not a build-up-to-this-ending sort of thing, it's saying you've played the whole game, you've seen all this, where should humanity go now?

and i think in the end the choice that was "meant" (obviously they are all good/bad in their own ways, that's how all the deus ex games are and way the endings were supposed to feel) to play out in that it goes most with the feel of the story/world was the destroy everything. people trying to choose the path for humanity, people trying to evolve the species through science, people just trying to guide everything etc has gotten us everything we have. no matter what you choose or believe, right or wrong, there will be consequences good or bad, and that ending essentially states that showing how one man can't try to lead the entire world. adam gives up that choice and leaves it to the world to choose it's fate together, as opposed to trying to lead like the ego of one man in sarif, taggart or darrow because he's seen what that can cause.

overall i'm very satisfied with everything in the game. the gameplay and audio and presentation were amazing of course, but the story really outdid itself. the philosophical questions and the commentary on where we are and where we're going is really deep and hard hitting, and shows how games can be just as (or even more so) affective than other forms of media. the endings really had me sitting there not sure what to choose for 2 minutes, just like when i played previous deus ex games back in the day. the fleshing out of the world in emails and conversations was just marvelous too, i can't even imagine how much work had to go into that continuity. seriously, just perfect and truly kept the spirit of the game and philosophy behind it alive.

only continuity error i found was:
in picus if you read emails, morgan everett is in one talking about stuff and it's implied he's working for the company, showing the backstory of how he was in the high ranking media outlet leading/relating to the illuminati etc, but one thing was there another email that is signed nicolette duclaire. i'm not sure if they were trying to make a nod to the original with that one, but even if you assume nicolette is like 35 in deus ex (she looks/acts more like she's mid-late 20s and couldnt' possibly be 40 or older) that would mean that she's 10 in human revolution, and couldnt' be an employee at picus (not even a receptionist, and the email implies more). it makes sense for morgan, but really not for her. if they had it signed beth duclaire that'd make a lot more sense and fit better, but even if they were just trying to make a nod to the original game it makes no sense and was pretty jarring.

It could be possible that Nicolette was named after another family member. And I always thought that in DX1 she and Chad Dumier were supposed to be in their teens or early twenties.

TheYouthCounselor
28th Aug 2011, 09:55
I don't think the Megan Reed thread should've been moved into here, because it dealt specifically with her character and construed of more than the ending.

Random
28th Aug 2011, 15:45
Yeah putting everything into stickied megathreads just stifles discussion because subjects of discussion get lost on earlier pages and people feel reluctant to make new threads and participate in the community. Potential posters browsing the forums are much less willing to read 15 pages of a megathread too in the hopes of finding an interesting discussion; they'd rather just look over the thread titles and see what's interesting.

You should just let people make the threads they want to make. Who cares if there's a bit of redundancy?

There are 20 stickied threads right now in this forum which is pretty crazy.

Edmunt
28th Aug 2011, 15:56
You can see the post-credits sequence here, at the 10 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMcd6-D4x8

It forges a number of links between Deus Ex and Human Revolution in a few lines of dialogue, though I'm not pleased with all them.

Bob Page is talking to Morgan Everett (who in DX1 is one of the Council of Five, the innermost circle of Illuminati members, and in HR is the CEO of Picus), telling him not to worry and that everything can be sorted out 'in time'. Basically it's saying that no matter what ending you chose Bob Page will still be able to manipulate things into what we see in Deus Ex 1.

Edit: also he tells Everett to keep searching the wreckage of Panchaea for anything they might use for the Morpheus Initiative, which is their AI project that results in the Icarus and Daedalus AIs from Deus Ex 1, the project designed to monitor global communications. So basically HR says that Everett/Page effectively copied Darrow's work. Which I think sucks because they were not some thieves of others' ideas; Everett was a genius and Page is protege, a mastermind. HR's ending undermines Everett's and Page's stories which I'm disappointed about. And Everett was a brilliant engineer, not the head of some global media empire. He was more Hugh Darrow than Rupert Murdoch.

Then Megan Reed arrives and greets Page, saying she didn't really have anywhere else to go to pursue her line of work. Page says she'll be excited by their projects, and Reed agrees, saying the 'nanite-virus chimera' looks interesting. It seems to be implying that Megan is involved in the development of the gray death virus from Deus Ex 1.

It's a nice link I suppose, but a bit silly considering you can find emails in HR that reveal Bob Page's involvement in things, so if Jensen is alive you'd think he'd tell Megan about Page. The game doesn't take into account that you might have uncovered Page's involvement. Or maybe it's just saying Megan is unethical? A bad end for her in any case.

(Edited to fix a few details.)

I reply to your spoiler with this.

First off, Page and Everett salvaging what Darrow had created doesn't undermine what they did. There are plenty examples throughout history where a discovery is made or something is invented from other salvaged work. It doesn't lessen there role in anyway, after seeing how it worked on Zhao its safe to say it was unfinished anyway. So they still had a lot of work to do themselves.

Secondly having Everett be head of Picus makes a little sense too, I mean who else would of been able to make such a sophisticated AI (that was at or at least borderline self aware) and computer system.

Thats just the way I see it anyway.


Anyway I think Megan is a little crazy, I also think shes kidding herself. I think that in the beginning of the game she was trying to hard to justify what she was doing.

Still though there is more left there to explore and I hope they do. I didn't expect them to tie it fully to Deus Ex but like others have said, it just sets itself up for more. Besides its a 25 year gap. A lot can happen in that time.

Lirezh
28th Aug 2011, 16:41
Do we have to create spoiler tags in a thread that has "SPOILER" in the title? As many didn't I'm leaving that blue stuff away also.
---

I recently finished HR and well I'm sad it's over, some stuff was missing and other satisfying.
I really missed a longer "speak out" with Megan. Damn I've been looking and searching for her for most of the story! All I got were a few words and she was gone again..
That really sucked, I expected more from such an important person in the game.
Damn I couldn't even tell her that our pet Dog got killed!

Aside that I also missed a bit more "public reaction" after the ending.
I understand they didn't put free roaming in, it means a LOT of work as all characters would require voice acting for the endings.
But they could have added more cinematics, after all it's a huge event at your finger tips and it ends too soon, leaving too much stuff unclear.

I kinda saw/heard/read almost everything, another playthrough only makes sense if a larger scaled mod comes out for it to change the experience.
I also had all augments except a few "boring" ones, I had most important augs mid game, Praxis points were aquired much too easily.


Conclusion on DX3: many ingame stuff could have been better but the game overall was very nice.

P.S. From reading all the Picus emails so many employee names were known from DX-1.
It looks like the Illuminati were behind Picus. It makes sense and fits there style to influence the world by soft means.


Everybody is lying!

thetrac3r
28th Aug 2011, 19:10
I'm not sure how my post ended up here, but when in Rome.

I'd actually like to comment on the endings. I support 2 of them, and I'm strongly against the other two, for logical reasons. I think the best way is to "discount" the bad ones, as follows:

1. Supporting the illuminati: Taggart makes one very good point. If you don't regulate something, then it can be seriously abused, and lead to chaos. Sure. Great. Fine.

But.

My issue is with the Illuminati's definition of chaos. Remember, they see themselves as being the only true power, the only true order, the only true enlightenment. IE: anything that they don't administer is chaos. I could invent a new kind of salad dressing, and if I'm not one of them, then that condiment becomes the greatest threat to humanity. I see no way Jensen could decide to support their conspiracy - the entire game is him hunting them down to expose it.

2. Broadcasting Hugh Darrow's Truth: Darrow's ending had a lot of appeal to me. Putting it all out there. But then, something caught my eye. When Eliza presents you with the choice, the wording is like "choosing this way persuade society to abandon science and technology" (not an exact quote). And then it got me thinking. Darrow wanted augmentation research to end, not because of chaos, but because of the corruption of it. How it empowered "the wrong people". But then, it started to sound like The Illuminati's ending, doesn't it? Tarrgart's 'wrong people' is anyone who isn't him. Darrow's "wrong people" is Taggart.

By the end of this game, I was strongly behind the idea that you can't stop progress because you decide it may help "the wrong people". It helps everyone, and hurts anyone. Good or bad.

SO...

That leaves us with:

David Sarif, alone against the world.

I liked David. A lot, tbh. Because, as much as a jerk as he is, as annoying as he can be, I honestly believed him that he was doing this for everyone. He single handed revitalized the Detroit economy. He was a pragmatist, a humanist, possibly a philanthropist.

And he resisted the Illuminati's attempts to marginalize/control the potential of his advancements to help mankind.

After Jensen had "walked 100 miles in an augment's shoes", I believe he would have supported David. Even though his message was a partial lie (not a total one, Taggart IS to blame for the disaster).

So I chose that ending.

IMHO, the "4th choice" was made canon only because it was the "cop-out" choice, And those make good canon endings. I don't disagree with the 4th chocie though. For me, it's David, or that.

thetrac3r
28th Aug 2011, 19:13
Conclusion on DX3: many ingame stuff could have been better but the game overall was very nice.



I remember reading a news article where one of the lead developers of the game had said they were forced to make some big cuts, to stay on time/budget. Including a whole city hub. In that story, it also said that if every original idea (some cuts were early on) had been developed, the game would have been 100+ hours long.

Now, I understand cuts can be made, but I like the way Lirezh said it. I could almost like..."feel"? some of the cuts. Like I could see several spots in the game where I almost felt there needed to be more, but the game was holding back/had been edited to be "nice, but not as deep as could be".

Overall though, I love Human Revolution. Maybe that's it, really. If it had been 100 hours, I'd love it more lol.

Mizkreant
28th Aug 2011, 19:19
Why would Megan help create the Grey Death virus? It doesn't have any beneficial applications. Stockholm Syndrome? When Adam walks into her room, she asks, "Jaron, is that you?" in a friendly tone. I suspect she may have started a relationship with him.

Daeda
28th Aug 2011, 19:38
I suspect she may have started a relationship with him.

But why would Jensen want that? She basically told him: "Hey remember when I convinced David to hire you. That was actually because I was just using your DNA for my research, and I needed a reason to keep you close after our first breakup."

She might have some stockholm syndrome, but the half year in Singapore probably convinced her of some Illuminati motives. She was easily the scientist with the most freedom there and she seemed to enjoy the work.

Also, we cant rule out the possibility that, having been declared dead, she cant return to her normal life anyway, as explaining the whole situation will get her either killed by Illuminati or just thrown into the looney bin. Hence she has "nowhere to go" but Bob Page.

Redem
29th Aug 2011, 00:10
Why would Megan help create the Grey Death virus? It doesn't have any beneficial applications. Stockholm Syndrome? When Adam walks into her room, she asks, "Jaron, is that you?" in a friendly tone. I suspect she may have started a relationship with him.

She could easily have made grey death without actively wanting it, grey death just nanobots the body is rejecting

rubiomhs
29th Aug 2011, 00:42
the story is so half baked i don't even want to pay attention to it.

Danik0226
29th Aug 2011, 06:00
If I had to choose one, I would have chosen Sarif. Like someone already mentioned, the Taggart and Darrow ending are just about control. They seek to the force the world into their own vision of how it should be. In the trailer, I think the line by Sarif said it best. "They cannot stop the future." One way or another this technology would have advanced. A simple news cast would not change whether or not secret organizations or private companies could get away with ethically questionable research and advancements. Sarif may have been a jerk, but I think he really did envision a future where everyone could have been augmented without the financial troubles of dependency on something like neuropozyne. Obviously Adam's DNA was the ticket to nano augmentation that would no longer require a choice between form and function. Everyone could look human, but still benefit from the technology within them.

Since the topic was brought up, I felt like the development of Megan Reed was somewhat disappointing. While Adam was involved with uncovering the conspiracy, it is obvious that his main focus was finding Megan Reed. Once he finds her, he discovers that she is at the very least somewhat comfortable with her current conditions. You never truly find out what makes her tick. In the beginning she seems legitimately concerned about Adam, regardless of the fact that the relationship may have been a front for to gather whatever DNA, etc. she needed off of him for her research. By the end she is shocked by Darrow and then tells you to go to Panchaea to stop him.... Then she meets up with Bob Page later...

Sadly, the meeting of Megan lends me to believe that the canon might be the destruction of the facility. It would be just one more reason for her to believe that she has no choice in continuing her research with Page, although I'm sure no one knows Page's intentions by this point. In the end I think Megan is a slave to solving problems with little care for what could happen if the knowledge was used immorally.

Biggus
29th Aug 2011, 06:09
Megan is Wernher von Braun in white

Snwaters
29th Aug 2011, 08:39
The end choice was pretty obvious to me- How could I choose anyone other than David Sarif's suggestion?

Taggert end the end just wanted Adam to cover up all the things he spent the entire game trying to uncover and expose.

Darrow grew to hate his own creation mainly because it was something he himself couldn't use. And while I agree about trying to out the Illuminati, I seriously doubt a few news reports is going to bring down men who control the entire planet.

The 'do nothing and everyone dies' ending just felt stupid: All that leads to is things staying the same. If no one knows what really happened, whats to stop the evil things that have been happening to continue? It was pretty much 'I can't tell the truth, and I can't tell lies so I'll just give up and sink me and everyone else to the bottom of the ocean.' Silly.

As others have said, Sarif had his bad moments. Despite that, I think his goal was something other than himself. I'm not foolish enough to believe that he isn't out there not to make a profit, but he really is trying to make the world better for everyone- even at the cost potentially to himself (Unlike the Illuminati who use the excuse of helping everyone to justify making the world better for a select few).

Here was a man who managed to singlehandedly save a prominent American city, and stave off repeated attempts to destroy everything he had built by a group of people who had the entirety of the world in their hands. And though he lied to Adam and Pritchard, I can see that he didn't want to hurt Adam with the truths the P.I. uncovered.

A man I respected put forth the most logical plan to try and turn what was a potential mess into something that could be used to help all of humanity- not just a select few. Sarif ending FTW.

Mizkreant
29th Aug 2011, 08:54
But why would Jensen want that? She basically told him: "Hey remember when I convinced David to hire you. That was actually because I was just using your DNA for my research, and I needed a reason to keep you close after our first breakup."

I meant she started a relationship with Jaron Namir after being captured, not Adam. That's why he kept telling him things like, "She is lost to you." and "Men like us never get back the things we love."

vallux
29th Aug 2011, 09:26
It's entirely possible that Megan and Namir had a relationship. But Namir could also be referring to his younger sister who was killed in a car crash. If I remember correctly, that's the reason he became one of the Tyrants.

Itkovian
29th Aug 2011, 12:47
My favorite ending is Sarif's, which comes naturally to me as atheist and proponent of science.

But like DX1 and DX2, none of the endings are perfect. They each have their downsides.


For Sarif's, augmentation research continues as much as possible (within the context of what just happened), but the other hand is we know what unregulated advance can lead to.

For Taggarts, well then you're basically letting the Illuminati win, giving them more control over humanity.

For Darrow's, then you're basically stalling scientific advancement for at least a few years, which is a Bad Thing (unless you're a Luddite that is)... plus you're letting a nutter like Darrow win. :)

And as for the final Doomsday Option, it's still similar to Darrow's ending (with no explanation, people will still clearly reject augmentations after what happened)... BUT the Illuminati are not revealed AND you end up killing hundreds of innocents (the workers at the station, for example. I made sure to stay non-lethal the whole time in that mission, and it was PEPS heaven). So in all I think it's morally the worst ending.


That said, the various ending videos do a GREAT job showing the upsides to each choices.

But, I think overall all of them could be the Canon endings. They don't contradict the state in DX1, just how you get there. It's clear that no matter what people will be much warier of Augmentations, which explains why we don't have augs all over the place in DX1. The Illuminati are still in power and doing their thing, and their plans are clearly still in place for the D project. :)

What I love about the Sarif ending, and really the storyline as a whole when it comes to the Illuminati's goals, is how it ties so very well to the Denton ending in Invisible War. Basically, if JC gets his way, the humanity becomes exactly what the Illuminati fears (augmented beyond and possibility of control, essentially making the Illuminati obsolete).

So all in all, it's good stuff. And the ending videos are very well done and balanced.

Itkovian

Itkovian
29th Aug 2011, 12:51
It's entirely possible that Megan and Namir had a relationship. But Namir could also be referring to his younger sister who was killed in a car crash. If I remember correctly, that's the reason he became one of the Tyrants.

Aye, that is quite likely as well.

I rather liked that line, it hints at hidden depths to the character (I wonder if there's a terminal I can use to find more about him, or if the novel is it).

He was a rather nice villain, I'll admit, if a little underexposed in the game. I'm glad the novel gave us a deeper look.

Itkovian

Dresden
29th Aug 2011, 13:10
You can see the post-credits sequence here, at the 10 minute mark: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMMcd6-D4x8

It forges a number of links between Deus Ex and Human Revolution in a few lines of dialogue, though I'm not pleased with all them.

Bob Page is talking to Morgan Everett (who in DX1 is one of the Council of Five, the innermost circle of Illuminati members, and in HR is the CEO of Picus), telling him not to worry and that everything can be sorted out 'in time'. Basically it's saying that no matter what ending you chose Bob Page will still be able to manipulate things into what we see in Deus Ex 1.

Edit: also he tells Everett to keep searching the wreckage of Panchaea for anything they might use for the Morpheus Initiative, which is their AI project that results in the Icarus and Daedalus AIs from Deus Ex 1, the project designed to monitor global communications. So basically HR says that Everett/Page effectively copied Darrow's work. Which I think sucks because they were not some thieves of others' ideas; Everett was a genius and Page is protege, a mastermind. HR's ending undermines Everett's and Page's stories which I'm disappointed about. And Everett was a brilliant engineer, not the head of some global media empire. He was more Hugh Darrow than Rupert Murdoch.

Then Megan Reed arrives and greets Page, saying she didn't really have anywhere else to go to pursue her line of work. Page says she'll be excited by their projects, and Reed agrees, saying the 'nanite-virus chimera' looks interesting. It seems to be implying that Megan is involved in the development of the gray death virus from Deus Ex 1.

It's a nice link I suppose, but a bit silly considering you can find emails in HR that reveal Bob Page's involvement in things, so if Jensen is alive you'd think he'd tell Megan about Page. The game doesn't take into account that you might have uncovered Page's involvement. Or maybe it's just saying Megan is unethical? A bad end for her in any case.

(Edited to fix a few details.)

Everett was certainly not a genius. He kept the former head Illuminati on ice in a secret room in his house so he could use him for advice. He doesn't have any problem with taking credit for others' work.

Personally I loved the stock footage style endings. The only problem is that they don't tell you what will happen to the world. I mean sure, Eliza tells you but that really isn't the same. The trick is that all of the endings will come to the same conclusion really. Augs will become severely regulated, probably only a select few soldiers will be allowed to have them and the augmentation industry will crash.

Biggus
29th Aug 2011, 13:14
Ending videos were to preachy for may taste

BType
29th Aug 2011, 13:28
Megan's choice at the stinger after the credit did not even remotely surprise me.
She's basically a pedestrian: she likes living her life, and doing what she does. Hard choices, decisions, the ethical consequences of her actions are largely secondary to simply doing what she enjoys in life.
She's a BRILLIANT pedestrian, but she's no visionary, no leader: she just really likes doing her science, and like many pedestrian types doesn't really question the answers she's been fed.
I think she was genuinely sorry when she discovered what the whole thing led to...but she also bought into Darrow's rationalizations VERY quickly, showing perhaps at the core, she doesn't give whit about WHY she does her science, instead just enjoying that she does it at all.
She probably didn't INTEND to create the Grey Death, a plague that kills millions, and a tool to be used in the Illuminati's control: Bob Page just fed her another lie, and she ate it up, because it gave her a reason to not think too hard about it, and just focus on her work.
What I wanted to know is this: was she, or was she not sleeping with Namir.
If she was that tells us ultimately relationships are a thing of convenience for her, and secondary to her work: she cares, in a distant way, that she drops when her environment changes, ultimately a shallow (if brilliant) person.
If not then she's basically just a technical genius who also happens to be an unquestioning idiot.
Neither are really shining examples character though.

Random
29th Aug 2011, 14:22
Everett was certainly not a genius. He kept the former head Illuminati on ice in a secret room in his house so he could use him for advice. He doesn't have any problem with taking credit for others' work.


He kept Debeers around for advice on Illuminati business perhaps, but there's no suggestion Debeers was the one who actually came up with all the projects. Everett was still a brilliant engineer, as Stanton Dowd states very clearly to us.

Vendetta11
29th Aug 2011, 16:24
I picked the Darrow's message ending and it was more favorite of all 4. The one I mostly agree with.

Me as well....

dsung
29th Aug 2011, 19:49
I never had such strong feelings of hate for a videocharacter before. Curse you, Megan. The time playing DX:HR felt just like the 6 months for Jensen to take revenge. At the end there was nothing I accomplished as Adam. Nothing.

I took the Sarif ending. And I want to know what happens to Jenson. The ending feels so depressive, I am so sorry for Adam. There was no need to save him from death.

Wow, thank you for such a great game! As I said I never felt such a emotional binding to the characters. Awesome.

thetrac3r
29th Aug 2011, 20:29
After thinking about it, I'm actually starting to hate the 4th option/cop-out ending. Mostly because of the preachy part Biggus mentioned. Like right at the end, "I'm not going to let Taggart, Sarif, or Darrow stand in the way" of humanity...I dunno, finding its way.

Right. We have to make sure that the string-puller who guided society forward, the visionary who pushed society forward, and the genius who made it possible for society to move forward.....aren't involved in man moving forward.

Total cop-out. And one of those smug ones, because it seems from the extra line of dialogue (Eliza saying how impressed she is with you), and the extra epilogue scene... that this ending is the sort of the preferred/canon ending the writers had in mind.

P.S. And yes, I still hate Megan Reed.

jason95821
29th Aug 2011, 21:25
i really really hated the ending
so i blew myself up and the station along with it

i expected the ending to be more futuristic and not somthing that look like a youtube scrap book collection

DeusEdt
29th Aug 2011, 22:20
One thing I'm not sure I understand about the ending section of the game...

Why do the violently insane Augmented only attack Adam and not each other?

Nokturnalex
30th Aug 2011, 01:05
Having played Dues Ex 1.

And just finished HR.

I gotta say they're really bad at designing strategic and interesting boss fights and making good cinematic endings. "Press a button to make a world changing choice" lol. Nothing you did previously in the game mattered, you could've killed every single person (including civilians) in the game and Jensen still would've said he was being a "good guy" more often then not.

The best part of deus ex is the freedom to complete missions how you see fit with multiple entry points into areas and the ability to hack, run-and-gun, smash and stealth through missions.

Other then that, the conspiracy theory stuff got old quick to me since I just played the first one all the way through in anticipation for this one.

Human augmentation? Cool
Nano-technology? Cool

Conspiracy theories? Kinda boring.

The parts of the story I liked the best were the militaristic ones. I prefer actual wars between nations/people more interesting then government conspiracies. Sure government conspiracies control those wars, but knowing exactly who your enemy is is more exciting then saying they're some secret club that apparently can't be stopped cause they appear in different forms in all 3 dues ex games.

zombieturtle01
30th Aug 2011, 01:13
What happens if you install the biochip at the LIMB clinic? I never did because I was obviously suspicious.

cqc_batman
30th Aug 2011, 01:19
I have to say BRAVO! to Eidos-Montreal for creating a masterpiece. After playing for over 40 hours, I finally finished Deus Ex Human Revolution for the first time at the "Give Me Deus EX" difficulty. The choice was hard but I chose Darrow. I wanted people to know the truth. Although thinking about it, destroying the complex was probably a better choice. Considering the whole issue with the story of the game. And that is that humans were never given the choice to choose what they want they're future to be. And that is what happened to Jensen. He wasn't given a choice so he wants to give the world that ability. The ending and how it tied to Bob, project D using Adams cells, and the nano-tech virus (that ***** Reed). Time to go and play Deus Ex. Thank you again Eidos. You've earned every penny of my Augmented Edition purchase of Deus Ex Human Revolution.

DeusEdt
30th Aug 2011, 02:37
What happens if you install the biochip at the LIMB clinic? I never did because I was obviously suspicious.

You lose your augmentations for the Namir boss fight. Other than that there are no real consequences.

Danik0226
30th Aug 2011, 03:23
I meant she started a relationship with Jaron Namir after being captured, not Adam. That's why he kept telling him things like, "She is lost to you." and "Men like us never get back the things we love."

In the book that was released prior to the game, Jaron Namir has a wife and kids. I highly doubt Megan Reed is his wife, but it was never explicitly stated who is the wife of Jaron. Now that I think about it, I don't think this is possible at all unless Megan is really devoted to nothing but science. The timeline of the book is along side that of the game. Adam had a relationship with Megan for 6 months if I'm not mistaken leading up to the incident. Unless she has been leading a double life, I doubt this is a reality. Sarif also kept tight tabs on his employees as can be seen by the PI work prior to hiring Adam. If Sarif can find out that Adam is an orphan of White Helix labs, then he should be able to find out whether or not Megan was betraying him from the start. Weren't they also locked up in the lab for a significant portion of time at Sarif as well? The other option is that Jaron is cheating on his wife, and Megan started up a relationship with a fully augmented man within 6 months? It all seems kind of unlikely.

Crash Override
30th Aug 2011, 09:57
Huh, I thought the post-credit ending made it explicit that the destruction of Panachaea was the canon ending. If not, what wreckage is Everrett digging through, and if it's merely the wreckage of Panachaea without its total destruction, why is he at liberty to do so if Darrow is alive? I don't see Darrow letting the Illuminati dig through his stuff.

It also made sense for Megan to work for Page Industries under that premise. "Where else could I go?" How about back to Sarif Industries? Unless Sarif is dead? There's nothing to suggest that Megan knows Page was involved with the biochip conspiracy, so she may have just legitimately sought employment at Page Industries since the leadership of Sarif and Tai Yong Medical both died.

I find the ending pretty depressing in that light; everyone dies and Megan goes and works for Bob Page, whom comes out of it smelling like roses.

Pete278
30th Aug 2011, 11:09
Huh, I thought the post-credit ending made it explicit that the destruction of Panachaea was the canon ending. If not, what wreckage is Everrett digging through, and if it's merely the wreckage of Panachaea without its total destruction, why is he at liberty to do so if Darrow is alive? I don't see Darrow letting the Illuminati dig through his stuff.

It also made sense for Megan to work for Page Industries under that premise. "Where else could I go?" How about back to Sarif Industries? Unless Sarif is dead? There's nothing to suggest that Megan knows Page was involved with the biochip conspiracy, so she may have just legitimately sought employment at Page Industries since the leadership of Sarif and Tai Yong Medical both died.

I find the ending pretty depressing in that light; everyone dies and Megan goes and works for Bob Page, whom comes out of it smelling like roses.

There's nothing to really suggest Darrow has any real way to stop them. After all, I imagine Page or someone else has overwhelming proof Darrow caused the insanity. He'd probably rather let them dig through Panchaea than live the rest of his life in a prison cell, or be executed. Megan also might've gone there for similar reasons: if she goes back to Sarif, then they could blackmail her with (slightly altered in this case) evidence of her helping Darrow. The Illuminati does want to restrict the number of people who know their existence outside of the organization, after all.

OGU
30th Aug 2011, 13:14
Yeah Sarif's ending is more in the spirit of JC Denton's story.

Also the Sarifs ending is the most logical solution for this game.
I have chosen in DX1 and in Invisible War the Helios Ending. In DX1 at Helios Ending there was a quote "IF THERE WERE NO GOD, IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO INVENT HIM" --VOLTAIRE. In HR at Sarif's Ending it says "We can became the gods...". I think, this is the way to the Helios.

Helios choice is a hard choise for a person to swallow. But this is the right decision, the power is so big to give it to the humans alone.

Afterall can a AI lie?

Mizkreant
30th Aug 2011, 13:19
In the book that was released prior to the game, Jaron Namir has a wife and kids. I highly doubt Megan Reed is his wife, but it was never explicitly stated who is the wife of Jaron. Now that I think about it, I don't think this is possible at all unless Megan is really devoted to nothing but science. The timeline of the book is along side that of the game. Adam had a relationship with Megan for 6 months if I'm not mistaken leading up to the incident. Unless she has been leading a double life, I doubt this is a reality. Sarif also kept tight tabs on his employees as can be seen by the PI work prior to hiring Adam. If Sarif can find out that Adam is an orphan of White Helix labs, then he should be able to find out whether or not Megan was betraying him from the start. Weren't they also locked up in the lab for a significant portion of time at Sarif as well? The other option is that Jaron is cheating on his wife, and Megan started up a relationship with a fully augmented man within 6 months? It all seems kind of unlikely.
I wasn't implying that she had a relationship with Namir prior to the kidnapping, but in the months afterward. At the beginning of the game, Adam and Megan have been out of a relationship for some time. (Read the email from Megan's mother). I wasn't aware of the book's story, so I was just going on what was presented in-game. If they weren't having a relationship, why would Megan ask, "Jaron, is that you?" in such a smitten tone?

Itkovian
30th Aug 2011, 13:59
Also the Sarifs ending is the most logical solution for this game.
I have chosen in DX1 and in Invisible War the Helios Ending. In DX1 at Helios Ending there was a quote "IF THERE WERE NO GOD, IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO INVENT HIM" --VOLTAIRE. In HR at Sarif's Ending it says "We can became the gods...". I think, this is the way to the Helios.

Helios choice is a hard choise for a person to swallow. But this is the right decision, the power is so big to give it to the humans alone.

Afterall can a AI lie?

Taking this further, the entire Illuminati motivations in DX:HR ties directly to JC's ending in Invisible War. JC's goal is precisely what the Illuminati are afraid of in DX:HR, taken to the extreme: a world where everyone is beyond their control and form a true enlightened democracy where there are no elite few to direct events.

Itkovian

Lundra
30th Aug 2011, 15:16
Hey people, Just registered to add my 2 cents..

I was blown away by the game, Adam was an awesome character and the level of detail that went into the story was amazing, however therein lies some of the problem... I feel that the ability to choose an ending was pointless because we never experienced a concrete outcome from choosing one, just a speech from Adam.. For instance you should of been able to reconcile with Megan, meet up with Pritchard, attend Maliks funeral or meet up with her again, Went back and got the truth from your "guardian angel" and things of the sort based on the gameplay choices you made.

However I did enjoy the endings, just there could of been so much more there.

Brian175
30th Aug 2011, 15:19
I think the better question is: Does Namir have a dick?

Itkovian
30th Aug 2011, 15:58
Well, leaving a lot of things hanging, or a tleas tup to our interpretations, is entirely in line with the original DX.


As for Megan, I think their reunion showed that any romance there is gone.

This certainly was not a traditional tale, and Jensen didn't find his lost love again, but rather came to realize that Megan had different priorities, ones that allowed her to rationalize things Adam cannot accept in order to keep working on her research.

In short, she's the sort of person who would end up working for the Illuminati, if they provided her with the proper incentive.

As for what happens next, well I think that no matter what option is chosen, there will be a large backlash against augmentations and many people will no doubt rush to have their augs removed (those who didn't get the new biochip, and those who survived anyway), resulting in the kind of world we see in Deus Ex: where mech augmentations are generally out of favour though still present in the world.

What your decision affects is the legal ramifications accompanying that: is aug research regulated? Are augs generally outlawed? Or do corporations like Sarif Industries continue to survive and go on with their research.

Here are my thoughts on waht happens next:

If you pick Sarif's ending, odds are Sarif Industries survives and its research continues, though it probably ends up having to downsize significantly due to the lesser demands (though, as we know, the military continues to enjoy augmentations). Overall the augmentation science keeps on going, but at a slower pace due to the backlash, though the backlash is not as bad as as it could be as the Humanity Front is blamed for the attack. Still, people will be wary of augmentations.

If you pick Taggart's, regulations are implemented and research limited, probably dooming Sarif Industries. Naturally the Illuminati continues their research, possibly using whatever ressources of Tai Yong Medical that survive the Panchaea debacle (I mean, it was THEIR biochip that caused people to go nuts, don't expect TYM to do well after that).

If you pick Darrows' ending, augmentations become quasi illegal for the time being, the Illuminati meanwhile go to ground. Sarif and TYM go belly up. Eventually those restrictions might be lessened.

As for the "kill everyone" ending, it's mostly like Darrow's ending, except the Illuminati don't even need to go to ground.

But there are a few things that happen no matter what, I think:

- The popularity of augmentations take a nosedive. After what happened there is no way people will be as accepting as augs. Augmentation Research might continue unabated or be regulated or made illegal, but regardless the consumer enthousiasm for augs will be severely reduced. Thus augmentations are something of a rarity in DX1. That's why DX1 isn't Ghost in the Shell, which is just about what would have happened if it hadn't been for Darrow's betrayal (except wiht most people being under the control of the Illuminati... assuming Jensen couldn't have exposed that on his own... who knows what would have happened had Darrow not done what he did).

- Regardless of the choice, the Illuminati's ploy to control augs is twarted, and Panchaea is probably no longer a viable installation. You destroyed Panchaea central computer and broadcast center, making the facility mostly useless for the Illuminati. I wouldn't be surprised if Panchaea is "scuttled" later on, regardless of your choice. Furthermore, there is NO WAY that the world's augmented people would retain their current TYM biochips. They'll ditch those ASAP, and probably cause TYM to go belly up in legal actions (The World vs Tai Yong Medical is probalby going to be a famous court case *Grin*)... though no doubt the Illuminati will salvage its research in secret (and get Megan's help).

So whatever happens, you still save the world and eliminate the Illuminati's plan for direct world domination.


Thank you.

Itkovian

P.S. Sorry for the wall o' blue. :)

Tusc
30th Aug 2011, 16:11
the story is so half baked i don't even want to pay attention to it.

I have to agree. It's just piss poor storytelling. Several characters central to the plot are tragically underdeveloped. Even if you read all the emails, you have to work to make up your own plausible story to piece together motivations. Side stories are left hanging in the wind. Lots of holes in the main story. No decisions effect anything. And then the big F-U of choosing your ending by button push.

I expected better.

Krios
30th Aug 2011, 20:49
I recently finished HR and well I'm sad it's over, some stuff was missing and other satisfying.
I really missed a longer "speak out" with Megan. Damn I've been looking and searching for her for most of the story! All I got were a few words and she was gone again..
That really sucked, I expected more from such an important person in the game.
Damn I couldn't even tell her that our pet Dog got killed!

I felt the same way. Has Megan ever loved Adam? Jensen went through hell to save her, fight his way through hundreds of enemies, and then nothing? Not even a hug?

Someone guessed she started even a relationship with Namir? The man who killed most of her colleagues and friends at Sarif Industries? This is crazy. At the end she wants to work on the gray death virus? :eek:
Why should Jensen even care for such a stone-cold unscrupulous person?
Megan must be not only a genius at science but also at lying.

The whole prehistory makes no sense to me. Maybe someone can explain it. Accidentally Megan stumbled over Adam Jensen, who is the only one who has the right DNA for her scientific research. By pure chance Adam fell in love with the appropriate genius scientist. suspicious. But how could she know that? Does Megan secretly test the DNA of all her boyfriends? Too much luck for my taste.

Why couldn't I use my social enhancer on her? Too bad :)

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 22:15
All I want to say is... 3 buttons? Really? You stop while Eliza explains 3 buttons? Whose idea was that. He/she should be shot.

ZakKa89
30th Aug 2011, 22:32
All I want to say is... 3 buttons? Really? You stop while Eliza explains 3 buttons? Whose idea was that. He/she should be shot.

I found this really stupid as well haha

Darrow ending best ending by the way

I was dissapointed they didn't show adam/megan finish were they left off in their conversation, their relationship was interesting.

OGU
31st Aug 2011, 07:44
Some people didn't liked the game because the megan's cold behaviors and 3 button ending. 3 button or not the solution of all things is the Helios this has been decided in Invisible War. How many of you have chosen in Invisible War any other ending insteed of Helios? Also Megan and Adam or Bob Page is irrelevant. No one is perferct tells the game to us, the AI is the solution for all mankind, that is what metters.

Draco856
31st Aug 2011, 08:31
There's too much speculation with Megan Reed, and not enough fact...I really want some closure to this, the only character in the game I felt connected to and all we got was a lame cut-scene....Other then this glaring fact (at least for me) I enjoyed the game, and will play it a third time when DLC comes out.

stethnorun
31st Aug 2011, 08:47
Oh woops, didn't see there was a stickied thread for this topic. Here is a link to my analysis:

http://objectivistgamer.com/?p=709

Sorry about the double post.

ocstew
31st Aug 2011, 10:04
Not really the "ending" but who were the Hyron drones, were they simply test tube babies or volunteers?

Rainhands
31st Aug 2011, 13:20
I was VERY disappointed that they chose to clip together stock footage instead of using in game graphics. They also failed to detail what happened to everyone else no matter what ending you chose, that was also a let down. But the epilogues in themselves were fine.

Maggie Chow
31st Aug 2011, 17:59
Having played the original Deus Ex many times I was quite dissappointed by the ending of Human Revolution.

The choices are kind of framed as "choose the future of humanity", but having played the original I already knew what was going to happen anyway and therefore felt like none of the choices really made that much difference.
It didnt feel like choosing the future so much as just choosing a bit of filler for the period in between HR and original.

Anybody else feel like this?

Cerebelum
31st Aug 2011, 18:05
Such are the drawbacks of playing a preqel. Does not stop it being a damn good game though.

Tale
31st Aug 2011, 18:05
I kind of wish they'd gone the route of the first two games and just let each ending option be just a part of what actually happens. But I guess there's not enough to go on.

It's not like they could have had them be distinctly eventful options. The world clearly doesn't go Luddite. I don't know how disappointment can factor into that. How does one expect differently?

faridle
31st Aug 2011, 18:53
I used Megan as the main motive for Adam to continue on, and what happens. She has probly shared the sack with guy who shot Adam. Joined/helped unwittingly? the bad guys. And to make matters worse she joins Bob.

If there where an ending cutscene depicting Adam Jensen. Then in mine game he would be sitting in his appartment
drinking cheap bourbon looking at an picture of Megan while love hurts where playing in the background

vallux
31st Aug 2011, 20:00
I used Megan as the main motive for Adam to continue on, and what happens. She has probly shared the sack with guy who shot Adam. Joined/helped unwittingly? the bad guys. And to make matters worse she joins Bob.

If there where an ending cutscene depicting Adam Jensen. Then in mine game he would be sitting in his appartment
drinking cheap bourbon looking at an picture of Megan while love hurts where playing in the background

...and then Flygirl walks naked from the other room- called it.

Daedatheus
31st Aug 2011, 20:11
...and then Flygirl walks naked from the other room- called it.

"**** it, Jensen. Forget about her. She turned her back on you, on all of us. Besides..."
*starts massaging his metal shoulders... somehow*
"... you're with the Flygirl now."

BOW CHICKA BOW WOWWWW

*Lazarus qeues up "I believe I can fly" on the radio*

"Adam can you turn off that sad violin music? Where's that even coming from...?"
"Why isn't your fridge plugged in?"
"What do you even need a sextant and compass for in a highrise apartment??"
"Have you asked them to replace your mirror yet?"

Krios
1st Sep 2011, 07:13
I used Megan as the main motive for Adam to continue on, and what happens. She has probly shared the sack with guy who shot Adam. Joined/helped unwittingly? the bad guys. And to make matters worse she joins Bob.

If there where an ending cutscene depicting Adam Jensen. Then in mine game he would be sitting in his appartment
drinking cheap bourbon looking at an picture of Megan while love hurts where playing in the background
You mean this picture?
http://dxhr.nanoaugur.net/dx3-art18.jpg
quite fitting.

The first playthrough was really thrilling for me, but now knowing that no matter what you do, it ends so badly with Megan, it kills the fun for a second playthrough somehow. All Endings can be seen during the first time, just by pressing another button. So there is not much reason left to play it again.

Its like: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Not to say every story has to have a happy end. Maybe I am too romantic.


...and then Flygirl walks naked from the other room- called it.
words of solace

Castagear
1st Sep 2011, 08:25
You mean this picture?
http://dxhr.nanoaugur.net/dx3-art18.jpg
quite fitting.

The first playthrough was really thrilling for me, but now knowing that no matter what you do, it ends so badly with Megan, it kills the fun for a second playthrough somehow. All Endings can be seen during the first time, just by pressing another button. So there is not much reason left to play it again.

Its like: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Not to say every story has to have a happy end. Maybe I am too romantic.


words of solace
there are so many reasons to play it again. Got every achievement? 1st time hiding in the shadows, 2nd time run n gun and make all bad decisions, hostages get killed, Sanders dead and his private hostage to. Ask mrs Reed for a reward..., being rude all the time, i tell you its fun

btt
i cant tell witch Ending i prefer. Taggerts, Sarifs and Darrows points of views are logical in there opinion. When there is a DX:HR2 i think the prefer ending is Darrows. Fight against Illuminati and the guys how killed the PI.

ocstew
1st Sep 2011, 10:31
I thought the video snippets were quite fitting for the game. But Adam says something like, "But didn't I, not abuse my power, most of the time", so my question is, does that line change if you played as a villainous murderer?

wheresmyskulgun
1st Sep 2011, 13:13
I actually kinda hated the endings, honestly, which is surprisingly since I loved the story up to that point. Here's the thing- the fact that we never really got to see Megan and Jensen reunite in whatever manner ripped out a big chunk of the narrative's emotional arc. This was, for the first 90% of the game, a story about getting her back, and never seeing a scene- beyond an extremely brief confrontation- where they talked things out was really anti-climactic. I'm not implying that they needed to get back together, just actually bring closure to the arc. She basically says 'I'll explain later' and peaces.

An even bigger problem is the post-credits scene. They had to try to make it work with any choice you made, which effectively meant that none of the choices resolved things differently. Revealing the Illuminati to the world evidently didn't damage the ability of the Illuminati to keep on doing their thing, blowing up Panchea didn't stop them from using the tech inside... and, of course, the girl Jensen fought his way across the world for betrayed him.

Finally, I realize some threads just got dropped. Even with a sequel, it felt weird that we never really followed up on Jensen's childhood at White Helix after that side quest, particularly since so much of the late game is about how his DNA is unique. Serif knowns something about White Helix, so it was pretty bad not being able to ask. How, exactly, did Serif find him? It couldn't have been a coincidence... Furthermore, the whole mind/machine AI running Panchea was a fairly significant twist which was never given any sort of explanation- who were those people? Where'd they come from? And who was in the 'alpha pod' before Zhao tried to take over ("mommy")?

Oh, and Eliza Cassan needed way more exposition. Why, exactly, was she helping Jensen? Yes, I know she made a couple vague comments about thinking he was a badass and liking his mirrorshades, but again, no real explanation.

Don't even get me started on the fact that Bill Taggart was a member of the Illumanati, and therefore knew and supported Sandovals helping remove the GPL implants, and yet the game forgot this fact during the Convention Center quest.

Overall, the ending really sucked.

wheresmyskulgun
1st Sep 2011, 13:16
"**** it, Jensen. Forget about her. She turned her back on you, on all of us. Besides..."
*starts massaging his metal shoulders... somehow*
"... you're with the Flygirl now."

BOW CHICKA BOW WOWWWW

*Lazarus qeues up "I believe I can fly" on the radio*

"Adam can you turn off that sad violin music? Where's that even coming from...?"
"Why isn't your fridge plugged in?"
"What do you even need a sextant and compass for in a highrise apartment??"
"Have you asked them to replace your mirror yet?"

My Malik died! It was actually at that point where I turned from non-lethal takedown EXP grubber to murderous avatar of stabby rage. I laughed in Pritchards face when he told me to avoid Belltower checkpoints.

RKB287
1st Sep 2011, 14:33
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.

wheresmyskulgun
1st Sep 2011, 15:54
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.

But still, it would have been nice to have a scene where Adam confronts her. The one we got was all of fifteen seconds and she promised to explain later. I really think the devs dropped the ball with the ending(s). We at least should've found out what happened to Adam.

Arksun
1st Sep 2011, 16:19
I really loved this game but I must admit I was slightly dissapointed by the ending. Not that it was bad but, Hengsha was soo incredible and rich, it almost felt like maybe they lost a little steam for the finali. The final boss was very easy to defeat as well, with the grenad launcher, couple shots at each turret and it was pretty much all over. Boss fight 2 was the most enjoyable for me.

I wanted Panchea to be as epic as Area 51 in DX1 and have proper seperate endings where you had to go off and do more tasks to complete them, rather than what is basically just 1 ending, with a choice of 4 different videos to watch just choosing a button.

Kinda feel they missed a trick there.

Krios
1st Sep 2011, 16:58
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.
So if Adam imprisoned Megan in his apartment, she would switch back and love him again, wouldn't she?

Pulse.
1st Sep 2011, 17:32
I thought the video snippets were quite fitting for the game. But Adam says something like, "But didn't I, not abuse my power, most of the time", so my question is, does that line change if you played as a villainous murderer?

Why yes it does...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrjsIK0R4Vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSmRNgvfwUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPooBM7aFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsnBL0njnuE

Maggie Chow
1st Sep 2011, 18:59
The ending of the original was very powerful and I can appreciate why they might want to replicate that, but the whole idea of having multiple choice endings in a prequel just seems kind of flawed.

I remember there were rumours floating around that the ending of HR would connect to the formation of Unatco and other elements of the original. Even if it was linear rather than multiple choice I would have preferred that to the weird stock footage and emotional speech. If this was my first Deus Ex game and I watched that, I'd probably never know the original existed.

RKB287
1st Sep 2011, 19:09
So if Adam imprisoned Megan in his apartment, she would switch back and love him again, wouldn't she?

You have to admit that it´s a strange change of heart. One day she´s feeling remorses for not telling Adam her work is about him, and the other she´s creating a killswitch for augmented people and a nanite based plague. I mean this isn´t just about an ability the focus only on the work, whatever it may be.

sonicsidewinder
1st Sep 2011, 19:24
(Having only picked one ending) I found the overall choice of endings pretty good.

They offer you the oppertunity to stamp your opinion on the augmentation debate, both in relation to your playstyle and how you viewed the world itself.

The fact it's gonna lead onto DX should be taken for granted. But still, each of the choices allow some leway into the how the story fabricates itself further.

Ending Choice:

Chose Taggart's Illuminati Ending

The most obvious point i took with this DX, was that such a higher majority of people were augmented. Playing non-lethal this made my playthrough much tougher, and it registered within me as, "Wow, look how dangerous the world is with so many auged up people. If Sarif wants EVERYONE to be augmented, how will that manifest itself peacefully. If things are bad now, it could only get worse.

"It might not", you could say. Yes...but it still 'could'.

Regulation is key. It's the only thing that can protect us from 'freak occurances'. It only takes one mad-aug. Imagine a hundred. A thousand. I wasn't willing to take that chance.

Plus i felt it set up the story of DX fine with the Illuminati in power. =]

Daedatheus
1st Sep 2011, 19:37
Why yes it does...

YES!!! I was wondering if that was the game responding to my actions, or just a canned line. It certainly fit with how I handled the game. Very cool that it responds to you. Very cool.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 00:54
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.

It is a pretty major betrayal. During the intro, Adam seems to keep himself alive while he is being augmented by thinking about her, including her saying "I love you." The first sentence she says to Adam in Singapore says it all, "Jaron, is that you?" along with the way that she says it amicably. Jaron is the man she saw shoot her lover or ex-lover in the head. That after six months she is on a first name basis with him and speaking to him with an amicable tone demonstrates that Adam means nothing to her besides his DNA.

Can you envision yourself opening up to a man that you saw shoot your ex-lover in the head, a man that has held you captive?

As for Stockholm Syndrome, that seems to occur out of the need for the victim to sympathize with the kidnapper in order to stay alive. A victim subconsciously wants to ingratiate his or herself with the kidnapper so that they aren't in the kidnapper's bad side. I don't think this is what affected Megan, because it's clear that she's invaluable to Illuminati and they weren't going to mistreat or kill her. She just prioritizes her research ahead of the people that care about her.

Personally, I took it as a pretty big punch to the gut because I empathized with Adam and felt a keen desire to rescue her, and more importantly be reunited her, and she didn't want that. You also wonder if it could have been different if she wasn't kidnapped, because she was clearly conflicted about concealing Adam's importance from him. It didn't matter to her in Singapore; her isolation over six months might have resulted in her change of character.

Rindill the Red
2nd Sep 2011, 03:02
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.

All of you guys are completely misreading Megan's character. I think you are transferring your desires onto her because she is supposed to be your love interest.

Megan only cares about the science. She acts all innocent and overly-trusting, but she just wants the resources to do the science... Sarif, Darrow, Bob Page...

You guys forget that she stole Adam's DNA without asking him and ran tests on it.

Rindill the Red
2nd Sep 2011, 03:04
So if Adam imprisoned Megan in his apartment, she would switch back and love him again, wouldn't she?

No, if Adam suddenly had access to billions of dollars and teams of researchers and the latest technology, she'd fall back in love with him.

LkMax
2nd Sep 2011, 04:08
Sarifs ending was my personal choice. It may have it's bad consequences but no matter what you do things won't be perfect. The "blow everything up" is an exaggerated and ineffective solution and also would f4ck the hard work I had keeping almost every threat unconscious at Panchaea, Darrow is insane for doing what he did and the illuminati end was a closer choice but would ruin what I was fighting against.

PS: For those who think the "blow everything up" is the canon end, remember that the facility was already being destroied when Jensen arrived.


(...)
Can you envision yourself opening up to a man that you saw shoot your ex-lover in the head, a man that has held you captive? (...) Personally, I took it as a pretty big punch to the gut because I empathized with Adam and felt a keen desire to rescue her, and more importantly be reunited her, and she didn't want that. You also wonder if it could have been different if she wasn't kidnapped, because she was clearly conflicted about concealing Adam's importance from him. It didn't matter to her in Singapore; her isolation over six months might have resulted in her change of character.
Yeah, same here. This b1tch deserves a punch in the face!!11!!1


I think the better question is: Does Namir have a dick?

...and then Flygirl walks naked from the other room- called it.
ROFL good one guys.:lmao:


Why yes it does...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrjsIK0R4Vg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSmRNgvfwUk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qPooBM7aFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsnBL0njnuE

Man, thanks for pointing that out. :)

Daedatheus
2nd Sep 2011, 04:48
Can you envision yourself opening up to a man that you saw shoot your ex-lover in the head, a man that has held you captive?

To be fair, Jaron actually knocks Megan out after she throws a barrel of "burning-green-videogame-liquid" at him. She saw him rough Adam up pretty bad, but she was unconscious when Jaron shot Adam, and assumed (as we find out later) that Adam was dead.

Truth is you find that it was Megan who pushed for Sarif to hire Adam, and we can only imagine she got into a serious relationship with you to take advantage of you, and lie to you about "patient x." She's something of a sociopath, as Rindill says for her it's all for the science and prestige.

K0rN b4LL
2nd Sep 2011, 05:48
Just beat the game for the first time and I gotta say it was complete BULL****. My god I'm not even talking about the different options, rather the way you pick them. In both of the previous games each game required different objectives be completed (the first more so than the second game) in order for the different endings to be played out, in this game its just pick an effing button??? WTF?!?!?!? (I should point out that talking to an NPC does not count in this regard) C'mon what the hell is going on over at Square Enix did they just crap out and give up because it wasn't one of their precious Final Fantasy games? Those jerkoffs didn't even try to make it interesting.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 06:07
To be fair, Jaron actually knocks Megan out after she throws a barrel of "burning-green-videogame-liquid" at him. She saw him rough Adam up pretty bad, but she was unconscious when Jaron shot Adam, and assumed (as we find out later) that Adam was dead.

Truth is you find that it was Megan who pushed for Sarif to hire Adam, and we can only imagine she got into a serious relationship with you to take advantage of you, and lie to you about "patient x." She's something of a sociopath, as Rindill says for her it's all for the science and prestige.

I'm not sure she never had feelings for Adam. She did tell him she loved him at some point. She was also clearly conflicted about telling Adam that he was Patient X. I have to presume that she got into the relationship with Adam legitimately and not because of his DNA. I think her pushing Sarif to hire Adam could have been a legitimate effort to find him employment, and the Patient X aspect of it was simply to convince Sarif to do it and get Adam in the door.

Does the game elaborate on how their relationship ended? I recall hearing or reading something about Megan breaking Adam's heart, but not much else. It might be that the Patient X research alienated her from Adam, because she couldn't stand lying by omission to him every time that she saw him socially after spending her professional time using his DNA for research. She was about to open up to Adam before Pritchard interrupted in the intro. I don't think that she's a static character; she's a different person in Singapore than she was at the beginning of the game, and by that time any feelings she had for Adam had been supplanted by her research.

Is there any evidence that she knew Bob Page was involved in the conspiracy? The reluctant and defeated delivery of "Where else could I go?" could suggest that she did and was begrudgingly working for him. She definitely didn't sound like she wanted to be working for Page, but the prospect of continuing her research was her means of coping with it. It's quite likely that this is how she got through her kidnapping -- whereas, in my mind at least, Adam's means of coping with his augmentation and what he held onto to survive his injuries was Megan. It contrasts their characters, but I don't think it makes her a sociopath.

I think to read into it that she was a sociopath that never had any feelings for Adam and used him from the beginning is demonizing Megan's character a bit too much. While I said how she behaved was a major betrayal toward Adam, I don't think she specifically chose to hurt Adam, but was mostly pushed into circumstances (intentionally, by Bob Page) that would make her an asset to the Illuminati. I highly doubt that if the kidnapping didn't happen that Megan would be at all similar; I wouldn't be surprised if she and Adam eventually got back together after Adam learned he was Patient X and Megan didn't have to carry the burden of researching his DNA while he's none the wiser.

Danik0226
2nd Sep 2011, 06:15
Also the Sarifs ending is the most logical solution for this game.
I have chosen in DX1 and in Invisible War the Helios Ending. In DX1 at Helios Ending there was a quote "IF THERE WERE NO GOD, IT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO INVENT HIM" --VOLTAIRE. In HR at Sarif's Ending it says "We can became the gods...". I think, this is the way to the Helios.

Helios choice is a hard choise for a person to swallow. But this is the right decision, the power is so big to give it to the humans alone.

Afterall can a AI lie?

Are you being sarcastic about the AI lying? Eliza Cassan is an AI built for propaganda and fabricating the news. Eliza also has an interest in helping Adam for whatever reason, which I would imagine goes against her original programming in some way. She even ends the conversation with the player, "Adam.... everyone lies.", after the confrontation with Yelena Federova. Just food for thought. I happened to choose the Helios and Apostle Corp endings because they seemed like the most logical choice, but the game even has eBooks with case studies of AI's lying.

Danik0226
2nd Sep 2011, 06:19
I wasn't implying that she had a relationship with Namir prior to the kidnapping, but in the months afterward. At the beginning of the game, Adam and Megan have been out of a relationship for some time. (Read the email from Megan's mother). I wasn't aware of the book's story, so I was just going on what was presented in-game. If they weren't having a relationship, why would Megan ask, "Jaron, is that you?" in such a smitten tone?

I agree the tone was quite odd, and that was what I was thinking as well. I would personally not like this as the truth, only because you go through a good majority of the game searching for Megan. It seems like a huge slap in the face. If it is true, then Jaron's words about "Men like us can never keep the things/ones we love." may have a dual meaning. Maybe he lost his family and kids during the events of the game, and in starting a relationship with Mega Adam lost what he loved. I'm not sure one way or another, but if the book is to be taken as canon a strong argument could be made that unless Jaron was cheating on his wife, it doesn't make much sense.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 06:31
I agree the tone was quite odd, and that was what I was thinking as well. I would personally not like this as the truth, only because you go through a good majority of the game searching for Megan. It seems like a huge slap in the face. If it is true, then Jaron's words about "Men like us can never keep the things/ones we love." may have a dual meaning. Maybe he lost his family and kids during the events of the game, and in starting a relationship with Mega Adam lost what he loved. I'm not sure one way or another, but if the book is to be taken as canon a strong argument could be made that unless Jaron was cheating on his wife, it doesn't make much sense.

From a story perspective, I don't think it's necessary that Megan has a sexual relationship with Namir; in fact, I think it would be counter-productive. I think Megan's hamartia is that she uses her research to cope with her circumstances. Whereas Adam, in contrast, is thinking about Megan and using his memories of her to cope with his injuries and augmentation. Thus, Bob Page has her kidnapped and put in an isolated situation, and since she uses her research to cope and is given precisely and only that, it dominates her life for six months, and her love for Adam is gone. But not because of who Adam is or what he has done, but because Megan has simply lost the desire for a partner or romance and her life is all about her research now.

If she were in a relationship with Namir, that latter aspect wouldn't be the case. I don't think that it would make the emotional pain that Adam would feel much worse that she's sleeping with Namir anymore than it does that she is on a first name basis and on friendly terms with him. The betrayal in my mind is that she's doing those things with someone that she probably concluded had killed Adam, her lover (or ex-lover), and whom at the time of the kidnapping she still had feelings for. To add in the general betrayal of perceived infidelity isn't really necessary, and since it would suggest that she's still interested in romantic relationships, could even mean that if Adam could forgive her, that she could reconcile with him (if she still had feelings for him). It also does nothing to enhance the betrayal of fraternizing with a man that she believed killed Adam. I find the idea that her interest in romance is completely extinguished to be more poignant, and if I were Adam, more emotionally painful. She's forever lost to him, just as Namir said.

Danik0226
2nd Sep 2011, 06:37
I used Megan as the main motive for Adam to continue on, and what happens. She has probly shared the sack with guy who shot Adam. Joined/helped unwittingly? the bad guys. And to make matters worse she joins Bob.

If there where an ending cutscene depicting Adam Jensen. Then in mine game he would be sitting in his appartment
drinking cheap bourbon looking at an picture of Megan while love hurts where playing in the background

This all depends on how they want to make out Megan. The only glaring fact out of that cut scene was that Megan is truly devoid in ethics when it comes to research into augmentations and nanotechnology. While possible, I don't think it is conclusive that she is shacking up with Namir for the time being. I think people are also thinking too much in terms of the known future. Megan would have no way of knowing Bob Page's intentions. He doesn't splinter off MJ12 until much later. Keep in mind that the Chimera nanite-virus would be an extension of her research on Adam. The point of the virus is to mutate individuals so that everyone can accept nano-augmentations. Little does Megan know, this is not the intent of the Illuminati and Bob Page has malicious plans for it that don't fit into the Illuminati code. While the Illuminati are control freaks, the core group of them do not intend any physical harm to those they seek to control. Bob Page is an extension of an Illuminati with no inhibitions.

Danik0226
2nd Sep 2011, 06:43
From a story perspective, I don't think it's necessary that Megan has a sexual relationship with Namir; in fact, I think it would be counter-productive. I think Megan's hamartia is that she uses her research to cope with her circumstances. Whereas Adam, in contrast, is thinking about Megan and using his memories of her to cope with his injuries and augmentation. Thus, Bob Page has her kidnapped and put in an isolated situation, and since she uses her research to cope and is given precisely and only that, it dominates her life for six months, and her love for Adam is gone. But not because of who Adam is or what he has done, but because Megan has simply lost the desire for a partner or romance and her life is all about her research now.

If she were in a relationship with Namir, that latter aspect wouldn't be the case. I don't think that it would make the emotional pain that Adam would feel much worse that she's sleeping with Namir anymore than it does that she is on a first name basis and on friendly terms with him. The betrayal in my mind is that she's doing those things with someone that she probably concluded had killed Adam, her lover (or ex-lover), and whom at the time of the kidnapping she still had feelings for. To add in the general betrayal of perceived infidelity isn't really necessary, and since it would suggest that she's still interested in romantic relationships, could even mean that if Adam could forgive her, that she could reconcile with him (if she still had feelings for him). It also does nothing to enhance the betrayal of fraternizing with a man that she believed killed Adam. I find the idea that her interest in romance is completely extinguished to be more poignant, and if I were Adam, more emotionally painful. She's forever lost to him, just as Namir said.

I think your post sums up the more likely scenario perfectly, and was largely what I was thinking. The betrayal is in her focus on research in seemingly unethical and rash ways. The cut scene was somewhat of a mess, but she goes from defending the controversial to "OMG. I had no idea Darrow would have done something like that." It seems incredibly naive, but at the same time I don't see her character accepting any major portion of the blame. I'm not saying she would sign up with Dr. Evil for furthering her research, but if the opportunity is available and it doesn't seem like cruel intentions, she will continue her research in her own apathetic way.

Danik0226
2nd Sep 2011, 06:55
My guess is that Megan got a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. I think that with time she aligned herself with the Illuminati and switched alliances. She seems to talk to Namir with no problem, despite the crap that had happenend 6 months before. In fact, by the time HR ends, she has no problems in helping create a plague.

Maybe I'm giving Megan too much credit, but I believe the Gray Death was an unintended consequence of the virus or more likely a twist by Bob Page. Megan is probably under the impression that the virus would be used to mutate normal people's DNA to have the same characteristics as Adam's complete acceptance of augmentations. Some of the eBooks in the game hint at being able to have the body accept nanites in the blood. Until Adam's DNA came along, the individuals in in this story believe that type of advancement was very far off. Also, there are many members of the Illuminati who would frown on the Gray Death. Yes, they want to control the advancement of human technology so that they can remain in power, and so humanity doesn't inadvertently destroy itself. If you look at some of their main endeavors, they are peaceful abuses of power. Humanity Front is meant to convince people that augmentations are not for them, and to slow the acceptance of it. The bio chips were meant to be used as riot and crowd control. The more controversial may have been Picus, given the fabrication of news could push people towards rash actions of rioting and violence. I'm not saying the Illuminati in general are angels, but I would not categorize them as demons, which I believe is a fit for Bob Page.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 07:01
I think your post sums up the more likely scenario perfectly, and was largely what I was thinking. The betrayal is in her focus on research in seemingly unethical and rash ways. The cut scene was somewhat of a mess, but she goes from defending the controversial to "OMG. I had no idea Darrow would have done something like that." It seems incredibly naive, but at the same time I don't see her character accepting any major portion of the blame. I'm not saying she would sign up with Dr. Evil for furthering her research, but if the opportunity is available and it doesn't seem like cruel intentions, she will continue her research in her own apathetic way.

As far as betrayal goes, I'm specifically speaking about Megan's betrayal of Adam from his perspective. If I were Adam, I wouldn't think her performing the research begrudgingly would be something that hurt me, but that she was doing it happily and friendly with her captors is the gut punch; she's happily greeting the man that "killed" you when you first walk in. Hypothetically speaking if I was in a relationship with a woman that told me she loved me and she ended the relationship, but clearly still had feelings for me when she was kidnapped (and vice-versa), and I found out that she was on friendly terms with the man that shot me in the head during that kidnapping, I would feel immensely betrayed. I also got the vibe that Adam and Megan still had a physical relationship based upon their body language in the intro, but I suppose I could be reading too much into that.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2356/testbr.png

I don't think that she was doing the research at all was a betrayal. That's self-preservation. But maybe I'm sort of like Megan, and I just don't view what she did as unethical in the same way that she didn't. You also made a good point that she didn't know that the nanite-chimaera hybrid would be used in the way it was. Everett didn't intend it, and he was the person that developed it. That can't be used against her because it wasn't developed with malicious intent.


Maybe I'm giving Megan too much credit, but I believe the Gray Death was an unintended consequence of the virus or more likely a twist by Bob Page. Megan is probably under the impression that the virus would be used to mutate normal people's DNA to have the same characteristics as Adam's complete acceptance of augmentations. Some of the eBooks in the game hint at being able to have the body accept nanites in the blood. Until Adam's DNA came along, the individuals in in this story believe that type of advancement was very far off. Also, there are many members of the Illuminati who would frown on the Gray Death. Yes, they want to control the advancement of human technology so that they can remain in power, and so humanity doesn't inadvertently destroy itself. If you look at some of their main endeavors, they are peaceful abuses of power. Humanity Front is meant to convince people that augmentations are not for them, and to slow the acceptance of it. The bio chips were meant to be used as riot and crowd control. The more controversial may have been Picus, given the fabrication of news could push people towards rash actions of rioting and violence. I'm not saying the Illuminati in general are angels, but I would not categorize them as demons, which I believe is a fit for Bob Page.

Everett developed Gray Death but didn't intend for it to be used as Gray Death. IIRC, this is what caused the split between the Illuminati and MJ12. I have no doubt that Megan wanted to use it for gene therapy using Adam's DNA. I agree completely that this is an instance of technology being developed with a specific purpose in mind and being re-purposed.

Krios
2nd Sep 2011, 07:11
No, if Adam suddenly had access to billions of dollars and teams of researchers and the latest technology, she'd fall back in love with him.
Interesting. But why can't she work for her uncle at Sarif Industries?
Why should Megan sympathize with people who killed nearly everybody at Sarif Ind., kidnapped her, imprisoned her and probably kill her mercilessly if she does not cooperate like Vasili Sewchenko? How can she block all that out and only see the science? She is not stupid.
It should also come in her mind that Namir & Co. could want to kill her anyway when they got from her what they want.

On a sidenote: Megan's mother seemed to be a nice person who appreciated the relationship between Adam and her daughter. It's a pity we cannot talk to her again after knowing that Megan is alive.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 07:18
Interesting. But why can't she work for her uncle at Sarif Industries?
Why should Megan sympatize with people who killed nearly everybody at Sarif Ind., kidnapped her, imprisoned her and probably kill her mercilessly if she does not cooperate like Vasili Sewchenko? How can she block all that out and only see the science? She is not stupid.
It should also come in her mind that Namir & Co. could want to kill her anyway when they got from her what they want.

On a sidenote: Megan's mother seemed to be a nice person who appreciated the relationship between Adam and her daughter. It's a pity we cannot talk to her again after knowing that Megan is alive.

It's questionable whether Megan knew that Bob Page was involved with the events of the game. I don't believe that there's any evidence in the game that connects him to it that Megan would know about -- even the evidence that Adam finds would be meaningless to Adam -- unless the Hugh Darrow broadcast in his ending does. The only other evidence is that she sounds unenthusiastic about working for Page Industries and her words suggest it was her last choice made out of the lack of other options.

I suspect that Bob Page is so detached from the incident that he came out of it cleanly and had plausible deniability. Whether Megan should be suspicious is another question, but perhaps she didn't come out of it so cleanly, and Page Industries was the only company that would accept her. I suppose in this light it lends credence to the Hugh Darrow ending, whereas previously I thought the post-credits scene only worked with the destruction ending.

Krios
2nd Sep 2011, 09:12
I think your post sums up the more likely scenario perfectly, and was largely what I was thinking. The betrayal is in her focus on research in seemingly unethical and rash ways. The cut scene was somewhat of a mess, but she goes from defending the controversial to "OMG. I had no idea Darrow would have done something like that." It seems incredibly naive, but at the same time I don't see her character accepting any major portion of the blame. I'm not saying she would sign up with Dr. Evil for furthering her research, but if the opportunity is available and it doesn't seem like cruel intentions, she will continue her research in her own apathetic way.
To say it with other words:
Megan claims that she is suprised that the Illuminati, Darrow and their murderous lackeys, who ruthlessly killed many civilians for their aims, are doing bad things with the biochip.

I mean, WTF? Shall we really believe she is that naive? She is an expert in this kind of science and should know for what her research can be used or misused.

fatallogic
2nd Sep 2011, 14:49
I chose the Sarif ending because I thought he was doing good work. I'd hoped to be able to return to HQ and speak with the scientists I saved, Malik, even Pritchard, and of course Megan.

That brings me to the most jarring part of the game for me. Saving Megan was the most unsatisfying game experience I've had in a long time. At one point I'd even suspected she might be Zhao screwing with my optics, but no, it really was Megan standing in a bleached white room acting in a way that was ridiculously incongruent with her earlier behavior. Then, as they are being rescued, she delivers instructions as though telling me to go clean up my mess. Okay, no need to thank me, or worry about me, or act like we've spoken before.

Considering how brilliantly character interaction was handled throughout the game up until this point, I'm terribly disappointed to find that the writing fails just as the story climaxes. It's downhill from there I'm afraid.

The game leading up to that moment was simply awe inspiring.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
2nd Sep 2011, 15:36
I chose the Sarif ending also. Not perfect, but I considered it the better one.

Jabufu
2nd Sep 2011, 16:01
My original introduction to the Deus Ex franchise was with Invisible War. Though that game was largely panned by the gaming community, I enjoyed it, and I've been looking forward to DE:HR for over a year now, watching all the videos and frequenting the site - so it was with a lot of fanfare that I picked up the game last week.

I thought the overall gameplay was good, the story was interesting and the characters were decently unique. But the more I played, the less interesting it became. The need to hack terminals for exp, cash and objectives became super tedious. The lack of viable "alternate" routes was annoying. (i.e., robots will destroy you and must be hacked, you can never go full-on frontal assault, I virtually never got to use my cool "flying down from above stun" thing, etc.) And in the last third of the game, the storyline was converging with that of the previous game, Invisible War.

***SPOILERS ABOUT THE END DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS***

Then I got to the last location. Panchea. Where the entirety of the gameplay elements that defined HR up to this point were eliminated. No more sneaking, no more tactical combat, just blazing a bunch of zombies with a heavy rifle. I guessed as soon as Jensen started getting "brain-pains" where my screen went wobbly for a few seconds that some faction was using the neural chips for control of some sort, but that story arc doesn't require the designers to eliminate everything that makes the game what it is for the final act.

But these criticisms pale in comparison to what I think of the ending(s). I'm still unsure of what Eidos was trying to accomplish with them, but here is a laundry list of their issues:

1. The entire thematic foundation of the game was the moral issues of what it means to be human in a changing world. But the endings try to make some kind of socio-political-environmental-economic statement that was only tangentially related to the plot of the game.
2. All of the endings are totally generic and don't use any of the things Jensen had to do (or not do) during the course of the game as a bias towards the resolution he chose. ...they even use much of the same voice-over and images across multiple endings.
3. Sorry but I expect game designers to MAKE GRAPHICS. Way to skimp on the end by showing grainy cut scenes of real-life video instead of actually being creative and making something interesting INSIDE THE WORLD YOU'VE DESIGNED.
4. What the hell does old-timey footage of past world leaders and wars have to do with this game? Oh yea, NOTHING. Totally unrelated and completely uninspired.
5. The zombies thing in Panchea was retarded. Seriously? Zombies? I haven't been this disappointed in a video game's final act since the bad guys in Perfect Dark turned out to be alien lizards.
6. Way to keep the franchise fresh by making the possible resolutions exactly the same as in the last game.

I think I'm just super disappointed in the storyline in general. They took everything that was interesting they developed about the plot and characters - the relationship between Meg and Jensen, how Jensen's DNA plays a role in the development of augmentation and how he feels about it (since this is a prequel, it's pre-JC Denton from DE:IW), whether Meg is an ethical scientist or part of the conspiracy, the inner workings of the Illuminati, how Sarif got to where he was and what he might have had to to get there, etc. etc. etc. There was so much interesting material to be explored but they turned the game into a generic copy of those that came before it.

Ok I'm done ranting... I just haven't been this disappointed in a game's ending in a long long time.

TL;DR
Good game ruined by a bad ending.

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 16:36
I chose the Sarif ending because I thought he was doing good work. I'd hoped to be able to return to HQ and speak with the scientists I saved, Malik, even Pritchard, and of course Megan.

That brings me to the most jarring part of the game for me. Saving Megan was the most unsatisfying game experience I've had in a long time. At one point I'd even suspected she might be Zhao screwing with my optics, but no, it really was Megan standing in a bleached white room acting in a way that was ridiculously incongruent with her earlier behavior. Then, as they are being rescued, she delivers instructions as though telling me to go clean up my mess. Okay, no need to thank me, or worry about me, or act like we've spoken before.

Considering how brilliantly character interaction was handled throughout the game up until this point, I'm terribly disappointed to find that the writing fails just as the story climaxes. It's downhill from there I'm afraid.

The game leading up to that moment was simply awe inspiring.

She changed as a person as a result of her captivity. I don't find that to be unusual. Spending six months thinking Adam was dead and in the captivity at Omega Ranch left her with nothing but her research to cope with the situation. It consumed her.

Personally, I thought it was really effective because I put myself in Adam's shoes and felt the desire to save her and when I found her and she was a different person than the one that was kidnapped, I felt the betrayal as keenly as Adam must have. That's good storytelling IMO.

fatallogic
2nd Sep 2011, 16:57
She changed as a person as a result of her captivity. I don't find that to be unusual. Spending six months thinking Adam was dead and in the captivity at Omega Ranch left her with nothing but her research to cope with the situation. It consumed her.

Personally, I thought it was really effective because I put myself in Adam's shoes and felt the desire to save her and when I found her and she was a different person than the one that was kidnapped, I felt the betrayal as keenly as Adam must have. That's good storytelling IMO.

Hmm. That's an interesting perspective. My expectation was completely different, but what you're suggesting does make more sense.

While it is, from that point of view, good writing, in the absence of any sort of conclusion at the end of the game, I'm still left with the same feeling. I wish there had been some exposition after the ending to shed some light on what happens with each character. I think that would have really wrapped up the game nicely.

Poison_Berrie
2nd Sep 2011, 20:10
I don't think the choice you make is supposed to influence the world as much as is suggested and I think that the question asked to you is a personal one to the player/Adam.
We basically know that eventually things end up at the point where DX 1 begins. Unless they actually make this a reboot and continue on from this point to their own version of DX 1.
It's basically: what does your Adam think should happen?

That said I was disappointed with Darrow's option. I made a save and did all the endings, but in my mind the point of that choice would be to be honest about what happened rather than having it be about no augmentations what so ever.
Overall the destroy Panchea option was oddly satisfying, though I still prefer the Sariff option for not killing me in the process.

The final level really was a turn around from what came before and didn't do the rest of the game enough justice, even the final fight was lacking in complexity. And the lack of exposition or even a call back on what happened to all the characters, like Pritchard, Malik, the scientist and how Megan ended up with Bob Page (it sounds like she didn't have much choice: "Where else could I go?") really doesn't help. They just disappear from the story.

On a side note:
Anyone else find it strange that Bob Page almost seems to be ordering Morgan around in that very last bit? Bob Page is supposed to be Morgan's protégé and the Morpheus Initiative is Morgan's project (Bob Page's work was supposed to be derivative, meaning he might have played a mean Xantatos chess, but he wasn't a technological innovator).

Crash Override
2nd Sep 2011, 20:29
It makes some sense that Bob Page is ordering Everett around. Everett's MO with the Illuminati is to indirectly influence events. "We never touch anything directly. We only influence, suggest, insinuate."

Page is much more direct through the biochip, gray death (which Everett designed but Page co-opted), Helios and Aquinas Protocol, etc. His directness with Everett is the cracks beginning to show and Page beginning to assert himself; MJ12 is going to break off and take over the Illuminati's infrastructure in less than ten years.

MasterInTheUniverse
3rd Sep 2011, 00:23
I just finished Deus Ex HR and I have been talking to somebody about the ending. Have you finished? Did you like? What choice did you finish? comments along

What are the future plans of Eidos? DLC? Sequel?

thanks for the answers

Bloodwolf806
3rd Sep 2011, 05:59
Here's something I've been pondering about:

At the end of the game, Bill Taggart is revealed to be a member of the Illuminati. In Deus Ex Icarus Effect, the Illuminati plan to assassinate Taggart. Why would they kill one of their own?

Urahara
3rd Sep 2011, 05:59
It's sad when you know all 4 choices suck before you even pick one. They were way to preachy, cheap, and every single one of them is in line with Illuminus thinking.

Urahara
3rd Sep 2011, 06:02
Here's something I've been pondering about:

At the end of the game, Bill Taggart is revealed to be a member of the Illuminati. In Deus Ex Icarus Effect, the Illuminati plan to assassinate Taggart. Why would they kill one of their own?

There is no honor among thieves. Or it could have been a false flag operation.

jerryku7
3rd Sep 2011, 06:03
TL;DR
Good game ruined by a bad ending.

I agree with nearly all your points. Couldn't put it better!
I like the use of live action footage in games though

Crash Override
3rd Sep 2011, 06:10
Taggart wasn't part of the Council of Five. Neither were Zhao or Darrow -- Zhao was trying really hard to get herself a position of actual importance because she knew she was expendable. Killing Taggart would have been no different than how Walton Simons kills Manderly if JC doesn't because Taggart is low on the totem pole like Manderly.

Here's my new demonstration of Adam's psychological gut punch:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2660/jensenruined2.png
"Jaron?"

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/2530/jensenruined.png
"Is that you?"

Ouch, man. Ouch. And I never realized how completely wrecked Adam is in that scene.

Krios
3rd Sep 2011, 06:56
I chose the Sarif ending because I thought he was doing good work. I'd hoped to be able to return to HQ and speak with the scientists I saved, Malik, even Pritchard, and of course Megan.

That brings me to the most jarring part of the game for me. Saving Megan was the most unsatisfying game experience I've had in a long time. At one point I'd even suspected she might be Zhao screwing with my optics, but no, it really was Megan standing in a bleached white room acting in a way that was ridiculously incongruent with her earlier behavior. Then, as they are being rescued, she delivers instructions as though telling me to go clean up my mess. Okay, no need to thank me, or worry about me, or act like we've spoken before.

Considering how brilliantly character interaction was handled throughout the game up until this point, I'm terribly disappointed to find that the writing fails just as the story climaxes. It's downhill from there I'm afraid.

The game leading up to that moment was simply awe inspiring.
I fully agree with you.


She changed as a person as a result of her captivity. I don't find that to be unusual. Spending six months thinking Adam was dead and in the captivity at Omega Ranch left her with nothing but her research to cope with the situation. It consumed her.

Personally, I thought it was really effective because I put myself in Adam's shoes and felt the desire to save her and when I found her and she was a different person than the one that was kidnapped, I felt the betrayal as keenly as Adam must have. That's good storytelling IMO.
Now I believe you are right.

There is a PDA message in Zhao Yun Ru's safe in her office from "BP", Singapore, I am quite sure it is Bob Page. It says that the kidnapped researchers were very "feisty" at first but the incommunicado detention was the key to change them, especially the leading scientist aka Megan. Think of this strange white room in which Megan was found. An evil little mind game they played with her.

That is also a proof that Megan was not in the conspiracy or "evil" from the beginning, besides the intro ("she is out of our reach...".)

But this Message from Bob Page is a proof of his involvement in the kidnapping of Megan. If Adam had the possibility to show her the message, I don't think she would have ended working for him.

All in all it is a quite sad ending of this story arc. It is amazing how effective the story can induce feelings in the player. So it is good and bad together.

Crash Override
3rd Sep 2011, 07:07
The thing about that PDA in Zhao's penthouse suite is that Adam has no way of knowing it was authored by Bob Page. IIRC, it only uses his initials BP. And Bob Page is completely absent from the game and follows Everett's advice, only influencing events indirectly through proxies and so forth. There's no way Adam or Megan would be able to connect it to him.

I had read that PDA before I wrote what I did about Megan; she was clearly indirectly influenced by Bob Page and molded to be the way that she is. She's not absolved completely; the above post with the pictures of Adam demonstrate that she did betray him. Perhaps it would have been more effective if we could have found some sort of diary or journal authored by her in her quarters so that we could have become privy to her thoughts and see the change in her over time through dated entries, and perhaps even see some sort of lingering spark of feelings for Adam by apologizing to his memory (since she would think he's dead) in writing when she realizes that she's interacting with Namir on friendly terms. Or not, and instead see that she's oblivious to the betrayal because by using the research as a coping mechanism, it's consumed her and gradually see that change happen with no note of it made by her.

I can understand why it was left out though; sometimes, less is more.

MasterInTheUniverse
3rd Sep 2011, 07:54
I choosed to spread Darrow's message over the world....

which final did you choose?

Garrus.Vakarian
3rd Sep 2011, 11:17
@ Crash Override

I agree with your opinion too. It seems reasonable to me that her isolation was the key. I think her biography also states that she tends to be locked up in her own world pretty quickly, so it makes sense she forgot about Adam. That and the white blank room...

I don't really understand her meeting with Bob Paige though. I mean she knows Adam is alive by then (unless you chose the self-destruct ending) and will seek answers. What a choice for her to disappear from him again like that.

The way I see it there will be a sequel to this and I feel that one of the missions will actually involve Megan Reed again and my gut tells me she'll get killed somehow....

On a side note, they never truly act like bf and gf or even as friends. The reunion is ice cold and there is more emotion when you talk to the other scientists. Adam and Faridah seem really good friends and there's also some chemistry in there, but Megan?

Thing is she appears to be quite dumb too, "it took hugh darrow to show me..." and the way she speaks. I mean I have a tough time believing these two could get together in the first place. Adam is just sooo cool! ;)

Kain Carver
3rd Sep 2011, 12:39
Megan's a classic Nior Femme fatale.

JCpies
3rd Sep 2011, 12:59
I think the better question is: Does Namir have a dick?

He's a human and has children, I think we can assume he had one at some point.

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 13:03
So after watching the end credits there was a little bonus for us, a short conversation revealing some story content leading up to Deus ex the original game. Essentially Megan reed is asked to work for the illuminati once again by none other than BOB PAGE!...after everything that happened to her, her colleagues, Adam and sarif industries, what seemed to be without so much of a batter of an eyelid..she accepts to be part of the "nanite-virus chimera" project.('Grey Death' in Deus ex)

It possibly tells us Reed is an Hypocritcal, immoral, unethical, and irresponsible biatch...she just used adam for his DNA, hiding the truth from him, only incorporating him into Sarif Industries to gain better access to him. She masks a fake or very suttle care for adam in order to help persuade him to aid her in her selfish goals...or shes just really really naive.

ALTHOUGH!...studying the video more closely.... Megan sounds to be quite reluctant,.."where else could i go" she says. Suggesting she was kidnapped again lol, or she was forced out from her old company of friends, (so to speak) and genuinely had no where else to go. She also then goes to say "Yes the nanite-virus chimera is quite intriguing". I heard this in two ways one being, In a slightly sarcastic non earnest tone and the other a genuinely surprised one. Its quite difficult to judge. She then immediately says:
"I'm looking forward to seeing the hybrid project up close, Mr Page" her voice finishing in a rather sinister tone..suggesting she has her own agenda. The audio definately tries to reveal the next element in the story in a rather ambiguous fashion, (leaving it upto the players to figure out) that will ultimately connect both games together, we'll just have to wait and find out. This will probably come in form of a DLC no doubt.


Anyhoo thats my two cents...I could be totally wrong...tell me what you guys think?

P.s lol the bit where Tongs' son runs of with the boat headed to panchea (docks)...what happened to that story??? Guarantee it will be a DLC!

Pete278
3rd Sep 2011, 13:03
He's a human and has children, I think we can assume he had one at some point.
I'm pretty sure that's him completely naked when you fight him, though, and he doesn't appear to have one now. I'm quite sure he did have one beforehand, but that isn't really relevant to whether or not Megan can sleep with him now. :P

JCpies
3rd Sep 2011, 13:07
I'm pretty sure that's him completely naked when you fight him, though, and he doesn't appear to have one now. I'm quite sure he did have one beforehand, but that isn't really relevant to whether or not Megan can sleep with him now. :P

Now that I look at it, it's as if they've augmented his bladder to release through the small holes in his crotch, somehow I doubt his ***** is stuck inside his box-crotch. But who knows?

Spiritual Beggar
3rd Sep 2011, 13:17
@ Crash Override

I agree with your opinion too. It seems reasonable to me that her isolation was the key. I think her biography also states that she tends to be locked up in her own world pretty quickly, so it makes sense she forgot about Adam. That and the white blank room...

I don't really understand her meeting with Bob Paige though. I mean she knows Adam is alive by then (unless you chose the self-destruct ending) and will seek answers. What a choice for her to disappear from him again like that.

The way I see it there will be a sequel to this and I feel that one of the missions will actually involve Megan Reed again and my gut tells me she'll get killed somehow....

On a side note, they never truly act like bf and gf or even as friends. The reunion is ice cold and there is more emotion when you talk to the other scientists. Adam and Faridah seem really good friends and there's also some chemistry in there, but Megan?

Thing is she appears to be quite dumb too, "it took hugh darrow to show me..." and the way she speaks. I mean I have a tough time believing these two could get together in the first place. Adam is just sooo cool! ;)



At Sarif HQ, at the very bottom level, there is a vent that you can go through....which leads you to a ladder and at the bottom of that ladder is a credit card...and an EBook.


The Ebook is from Megan's mother...to Megan....and it mentions "When you & Adam WERE together....."

Which implies that at the start of the game...they were not together anymore.

JCpies
3rd Sep 2011, 13:18
I thought Page's voice sucked in the post-credits sequence. It sounded pretty cool in the intro, but it felt cheesy at the end.

pha
3rd Sep 2011, 13:29
First, your title itself is a spoiler, please pay some attention. And second, nice catch, people always speculate that she willingly joins them because she's obsessed with science, but when she says where else could I go she really sounds desperate. Your turn.

MonkeyLungs
3rd Sep 2011, 13:34
She is a coward who will sell the secrets of her imagination to anyone willing to strongarm her. She should promptly commit suicide because she is a danger to the world being so intelligent and so lacking in moral compass. She is also a dirty slut. Have a nice day.

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 13:35
First, your title itself is a spoiler, please pay some attention. And second, nice catch, people always speculate that she willingly joins them because she's obsessed with science, but when she says where else could I go she really sounds desperate. Your turn.


LOL ye sorry *edited (title)

yeah the devs ended this quite smartly...they set it up well for the next installment however and whatever that may be.

I personally believe The continuation of the story which connects both games together will be about Megan's character and choices, the hows and whys and her involvment with Chimera project and illuminati it will give the players a chance to explore megans role in the plot. I'm not sure if jenson will be a big part of the DLC.

Brockxz
3rd Sep 2011, 14:12
ALTHOUGH!...studying the video more closely.... Megan sounds to be quite reluctant,.."where else could i go" she says. Suggesting she was kidnapped again lol, or she was forced out from her old company of friends, (so to speak) and genuinely had no where else to go. She also then goes to say "Yes the nanite-virus chimera is quite intriguing". I heard this in two ways one being, In a slightly sarcastic non earnest tone and the other a genuinely surprised one. Its quite difficult to judge. She then immediately says:
"I'm looking forward to seeing the hybrid project up close, Mr Page" her voice finishing in a rather sinister tone..suggesting she has her own agenda. The audio definately tries to reveal the next element in the story in a rather ambiguous fashion, (leaving it upto the players to figure out) that will ultimately connect both games together, we'll just have to wait and find out. This will probably come in form of a DLC no doubt.


Or maybe EM just picked the 4th ending - destroying Panachea so it leaves her without Sarif industries and without TYM so of course she is a glad to accept work for BoB Page because he can give exactly what she wants to work on.

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 14:30
Or maybe EM just picked the 4th ending - destroying Panachea so it leaves her without Sarif industries and without TYM so of course she is a glad to accept work for BoB Page because he can give exactly what she wants to work on.

Yeah that definitely makes sense..but...if that is the case..i'd be very dissappointed since it would mean eidos are being lazy... and decided to throw away every other story element... an easy way to tie up loose ends?... I really hope not. The game is about player freedom and choice these endings were just 'what if's?'..i don't think Eidos wants to kill these main elements off so easily. I think the epilogue is universal..it applies to all the player choice endings. Whilst it's true Sarif industries and Jenson is un heard of in deus ex. If they plan to completely kill them off Eidos will make sure the protagonists exit ends in an enthralling epic way so to keep audiences satisified..not the way we've seen happen when jenson blows himself up....too much unanswered that way regarding himself and sarif industries.

Brockxz
3rd Sep 2011, 14:56
Yeah that definitely makes sense..but...if that is the case..i'd be very dissappointed since it would mean eidos are being lazy... and decided to throw away every other story element... an easy way to tie up loose ends?... I really hope not. The game is about player freedom and choice these endings were just 'what if's?'..i don't think Eidos wants to kill these main elements off so easily. I think the epilogue is universal..it applies to all the player choice endings. While it's true Sarif industries and Jenson is un heard of in deus ex. If they plan to completely kill them off Eidos will make sure the protagonists exit ends in an enthralling epic way so to keep audiences satisified..not the way we've seen happen when jenson blows himself up....too much unanswered that way regarding himself and sarif industries.

Why lazy? The first DX also ended with multiple endings but in the end they manage to get all three choices into the second installation story. Most likely that will happen with this one, there will be destroyed Panachea and there will be part of every other 3 endings. And of course next game will have new protagonist because Jensen is dead by destroying Panachea because I can't see how Megan could go behind Jensen's back and continue shady things if he is still alive :)

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 15:05
Why lazy? The first DX also ended with multiple endings but in the end they manage to get all three choices into the second installation story. Most likely that will happen with this one, there will be destroyed Panachea and there will be part of every other 3 endings. And of course next game will have new protagonist because Jensen is dead by destroying Panachea because I can't see how Megan could go behind Jensen's back and continue shady things if he is still alive :)

Few other reasons why I believe Eidos wouldn't choose to continue the story from the suicidal ending. Realistically jenson wouldn't want to end his own life regardless of what players may of shaped him to be when progressing throughout the game. If he was bad killing everyone taking advantage wherever he may find it, opting for greed and power surely he'd want to carry on that trend, augementing himself continueing to progress into the future just to better himself while fufilling his duties. This definitely translates to, choosing to live. Even if the player played a pure pacifist, helping others over personal gain and progression...at the end of the game he'd have to Kill everyone else as well..this is something a morally and ethically good jens

Tuttle
3rd Sep 2011, 15:24
Jensen, of all people, knows what it would feel like to be robbed of the ability to choose their direction. He could have decided that Pangea and all those who know what happened should be buried forever and that whole in the ground can only be left up to speculation as people try and pick up the pieces of the beginning of a new economic crisis. Call it "one final sacrifice" for humanity.

Agent Denton
3rd Sep 2011, 15:30
Dr Reed wasn't all she was cracked up to be IMO

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 15:39
i guarantee ...Eidos won't continue..the next installlation of the story...with panchea being destroyed ..as the main plot.... it doesn't make sense

Even after the white room scene Jenson said to Reed...he and her had unresolved issues that he wanted to sort out. ...so after all that he just kills himself...i doubt it. And the way he's killed of ...is boring and unsatisfying ...for a main protaganist. I think in the next story installation..sarif industries and jenson will probably get killed off...but in a away more deserving..of a hero.... I.e Sarif industries and jenson take a final stand in order to try and kill of the chimera virus project (hence the DE:HR epilogue, Dr reed is a mole and joins the illuminati in order to cause sabotage) but fail in doing so. (they die trying) its more fitting that way.

and thats where Deus ex begins.. :)

Brockxz
3rd Sep 2011, 15:41
Few other reasons why I believe Eidos wouldn't choose to continue the story from the suicidal ending. Realistically jenson wouldn't want to end his own life regardless of what players may of shaped him to be when progressing throughout the game. If he was bad killing everyone taking advantage wherever he may find it, opting for greed and power surely he'd want to carry on that trend, augementing himself continueing to progress into the future just to better himself while fufilling his duties. This definitely translates to, choosing to live. Even if the player played a pure pacifist, helping others over personal gain and progression...at the end of the game he'd have to Kill everyone else as well..this is something a morally and ethically good jens

Why not to kill Jensen? Unless of course EM decides to make really common choice and introduce memory loss, some kind of augmentation loss or whatever other million times used start option in other RPG games to explain why your character suddenly doesn't have any powers anymore. It's just easier to kill him and start with new main character and retell the story in some way that will incorporate all those 4 endings. Just a little bit large time interval between events so that you could clean up all the mess and don't need to reference everything in sequel.

RKB287
3rd Sep 2011, 15:42
Pete278, that a muscle suit or whatever it´s called. It´s his augmentation, what gives him the strength and reflexes that he has. He´s not naked...


Garrus.Vakarian now that you talk about Faridah, a part of me hopes that after Megan decides to join Page, maybe she and Adam ended up together. I mean, the guy needs a break...


As to the ending I choose, it was Darrow´s version.The truth had to be known. The Iluminati, Sarif, none of them had the truth. They just wanted perpetuate lies and forward their agenda. Sarif believed in leaving behind those who couldn´t make the jump, and doing whatever it took to give that jump. The Iluminati wanted to be the sole possesors of the power . With Darrow´s confession, I gave the world the truth, and a chance to make up their mind. If they decided to bury it deep in their minds,so be it.

Jenson
3rd Sep 2011, 15:49
Why not to kill Jensen? Unless of course EM decides to make really common choice and introduce memory loss, some kind of augmentation loss or whatever other million times used start option in other RPG games to explain why your character suddenly doesn't have any powers anymore. It's just easier to kill him and start with new main character and retell the story in some way that will incorporate all those 4 endings. Just a little bit large time interval between events so that you could clean up all the mess and don't need to reference everything in sequel.

But why not tie up the loose ends in a after DLC...why choose the Destruction of panchea as the main continuation...don't you think its boring? ... i mean we will never get to see Sarifs, taggarts and darrows after thoughts....they're all interesting characters. No doubt all this has to end before Deus ex begins..but id thought theyd do it more interestingly.

DSQ
3rd Sep 2011, 16:16
Personally I wasn't disapointed with the endings, but I didn't think they were great either. The game in general was very enjoyable, although I've got loads of little gripes, but the ending just sucked. What really bothered me with it was how the choices were presented for the player. Simply put the problem is the "girl explains choices in boring exposition dialogue, you push butan and get corresponding ending cinematic" -solution they went with, instead of putting some effort into it. Propably the laziest and horrible ways you can implement a multiple choice ending IMO.

What they should have done was go the original deus ex route. It's one of the best endings I've ever seen in a videogame and for good reason. For those of you who don't know, basicly it allows multiple endings like in this one and each one is represented by someone who is trying to get you to choose their side. They all argue their point of view to you and try to get you to achieve their objective in the final bunker complex. Nothing special there, but it plays out much better and makes the final stage very memorable and true to how the rest of the game played out. The difference is that you aren't just funneled into the end and forced to choose wich button you press. In the final stage you have a set of objectives and each corresponds to one faction. It allows for a few advantages over what we got in human revolution.

First, it offered better gameplay. Instead of pushing a button, you finish the final objective of your choice. IIRC they were something like a)nuke the place by removin the coolant from an experimental antimatter reactor and then activating the reactor causing a huge explosion, b) kill the villain and take over the complex by shutting down his protective forcefield by disabling the fusion reactors powering it and then gunning him down or c) ally with the AI and do what the villain is trying to achieve before him and take his place by removing restrictions from the AI. This had you make the choice by actually playing the ending level in different ways, which offered more gameplay but the different objectives had you doing different things, which were of varying difficulty to do.

Second, it was more atmospheric and better storytelling. This was because as you achieved stages in your final objective, the factions were aware of what you were doing and tried to influence you. This offered tasty bits of dialogue in the form of one faction hurrying you to finish while another tried to plead you to stop or offering increasing rewards if you stop what you're doing. It was fantastic to play through and they also threw the negative consequences of your choice right in your face, so you knew there was a real price to pay for your choice.

Third, it fit like a glove with the rest of the game and is more fulfilling that what we got. Deus ex is all about multiple choices and ways of doing things. Having you gun your way through a tunnel to a disapointing boss fight, that is fought partly in a cinematic, and then finishing in a room with three buttons is not what deus ex is about. It should have been one smallish hub area where people contact you as you advance in to the complex and try to get you to agree to their point of view and do their objective.

Instead of the three button solution you would have had objective chains leading to your intended solution. the self destruct end could have been a mission to disable security features allowing you to alter or destroy the system keeping the place intact. Possible even securing an escape route for yourself while preventing someone from escaping using that same route. So a climactic mission that has loads of possibilities for drama, instead of push butan get end cinematic.

It's harder to give clear alternatives to each of the other endings, since they were so similar as options, but creating falsefying evidence(plant evidence and hack security footage) while assuring there is no one to tell the truth(assassination by bullet to the head or bonus point for making it look natural by neutralizing their defences and allowing the zombies to handle them) could have been an option. Again many chances for drama and tough choices, by allowing people to plead for their case to the player and forcing the player to listen to their death screams as the zombies overwhelm them. You could also just broadcast everything as is as a way for players who don't find any of the available choices worth getting their hands dirty. Wash your hands of the socio-political choice, since your personal reasons are satisfied, and let the people decide for themselves.

The more I think about the issue the worse the three buttons in a room solution seems. It was just a terrible way to end a great game and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I do hope they make another deus ex game and that in it we and the game get the satisfying end we both deserved.

Garrus.Vakarian
3rd Sep 2011, 17:15
At Sarif HQ, at the very bottom level, there is a vent that you can go through....which leads you to a ladder and at the bottom of that ladder is a credit card...and an EBook.


The Ebook is from Megan's mother...to Megan....and it mentions "When you & Adam WERE together....."

Which implies that at the start of the game...they were not together anymore.

Yes I know that from reading Megan's emails at the very beginning of the game (where you can also read about patient X). What I wanted to say is that they never appear to have had a relationship in the first place. They're just too different imo.

I can't even visualize it (and I'm very imaginative). Adam himself is quite cold and she just doesn't seem to have the social skills necessary. Also, if I'm not mistaken I think they were together for 6 months. 6 months??? I wouldn't see it last for a week!

Maybe it's just me but it doesn't look very realistic or maybe she was VERY different when she first met Adam.

Garrus.Vakarian
3rd Sep 2011, 17:38
@ RKB287

I'd be happy if Adam and Faridah end up together (spyboy and flygirl ftw :p), but I also want a proper ending with Megan. The importance of Megan has been overemphasized so much in the game that she deserves a proper conclusion in a sequel. Everytime Adam opens his mouth during a cutscene it's always "Megan", "where's Megan?", "Megan and the other scientists", "Megan's team"...

Like you, I also chose to send Darrow's message. Not because I believe that augmentations are bad, but because I wanted people to know the truth.

Let's face it. Adam was being lied to from the day he was born. He grew up with parents who weren't his real parents. He ends up loving a woman who uses his DNA to advance augmentations and doesn't seem to care at all for his well-being. Sarif gives him no choice but to get augmented so he can be used to do his dirty work.

I have a tough time believing Adam Jensen would pick any other option tbh. I think Adam is done with the lies. At the end he seems burned out and unveiling the truth is the only thing he would likely do.

I talked to both Taggart and Sarif. Then, I killed Sarif with a lethal take down (though I still got the option to spread Sarif's message. lol). In my mind he was the cause of Adam's suffering since Jensen shouldn't even be alive in the first place. If Jensen died, it would've been better for him emotionally as he wouldn't have discovered the sad truth about the people he loved.

JCpies
3rd Sep 2011, 17:48
The endings are definitely something to fix if they make another game. Although I mulled over which ending to choose, and was somewhat affected by characters and the story in my decision I realised that I could just load up and press a different button at my will. Like DSQ said, there were no objectives which led up to the ending. I was honestly expecting something better than the original, where your choices actually affect the outcome but unfortunately we got something which was a step down from the original. I dislike the way that we don't get to see the effect of our decision. While I think that leaving a somewhat political/philosophical message at the end of the game isn't a bad thing, I believe that there should've been CGI movies which show snippets of what happens afterwards, instead of a video montage of starving children and Tony Blair.

Another gripe I have are the "zombies". I understand they were meant to show the dangers of corporation controlled human enhancement, that they wanted to add something different or climatic for the last part of the game but I just find it somewhat cliched and illogical. They're in groups, they've killed people indiscriminately so why aren't they attacking eachother? I know it's been mentioned that they have attacked eachother, but somehow they're tightly grouped together but not attacking eachother, while as soon as Adam is spotted they instantly rush at him.

The final "boss" was just too easy. I admit that I'm glad it wasn't just a one-on-one fight like the previous boss battles, however I feel that the concept was too similar to Bob Page's attempt at merging with the AI at the end of Deus Ex. There was nothing interesting with the four bots as they were easily destroyed with EMP grenades and mines that I had stashed in my inventory, and the turrets were taken out with one shot each. As for the zombie Belltower troops, there was no contest.

I found the fight to rescue Faridah was much more tense and enjoyable than blowing up a couple of bots and awkwardly avoiding (or dropping all your morals and easily massacring) the helpless zombies. As frustrating as confined boss fights can be, I found the Namir boss fight much more rewarding. I actually felt like I was struggling against a superior fighter and spent most of my time sprinting aroun avoiding Namir's attacks and jumping at his taunts or threats.

If I have to sum it up, I'll just leave you with this...


It was just a terrible way to end a great game and it left a bad taste in my mouth. I do hope they make another deus ex game and that in it we and the game get the satisfying end we both deserved.

Pete278
3rd Sep 2011, 18:23
Pete278, that a muscle suit or whatever it´s called. It´s his augmentation, what gives him the strength and reflexes that he has. He´s not naked...


Garrus.Vakarian now that you talk about Faridah, a part of me hopes that after Megan decides to join Page, maybe she and Adam ended up together. I mean, the guy needs a break...


As to the ending I choose, it was Darrow´s version.The truth had to be known. The Iluminati, Sarif, none of them had the truth. They just wanted perpetuate lies and forward their agenda. Sarif believed in leaving behind those who couldn´t make the jump, and doing whatever it took to give that jump. The Iluminati wanted to be the sole possesors of the power . With Darrow´s confession, I gave the world the truth, and a chance to make up their mind. If they decided to bury it deep in their minds,so be it.
Exactly, its his augmentation. You don't take off and put on augmentations: its the base layer you have on underneath all your clothes.

Kain Carver
3rd Sep 2011, 23:31
Now that I look at it, it's as if they've augmented his bladder to release through the small holes in his crotch, somehow I doubt his ***** is stuck inside his box-crotch. But who knows?

I'd say, with the exception of his head (obviously) that his body is 100% augmented. No internal organs etc, His crotch appears to be, IMO, where you'd insert the power pack to run his body, or where the nuclear waste is vented.

sadmachine
4th Sep 2011, 00:01
Dr Reed wasn't all she was cracked up to be IMO


I'd be happy if Adam and Faridah end up together (spyboy and flygirl ftw :p)

Agreed and agreed. I think the game makes it quite clear that Faridah's a way better partner (personally and professionally) for Adam than Megan ever could've been. With the way my first playthrough ended I like to think they went back to work for Sarif to whup more Illuminati ass. Takes some of the sting out of that post-credits gutpunch.

Ronin
4th Sep 2011, 00:12
I loved DX1 and DX:HR, but the endings in DX:HR were garbage. You didn't have to work for them and it was a cheap voice over over some dramatic images. I especially hated the destroy it all choice as it did not make any sense that Adam should sacrifice himself
I hope there will be some strong DLC to fill the gap between HR1 and HR2 so we get satisfactory endings.

realhangman
4th Sep 2011, 01:34
Hey there, I've just finished the game, registered here and read through this whole thread to get some answers, since I am am stuck like most of the people here: What was the matter with the endings? What is the truth about Megan Reed, about the experiments on Jensen as a baby, will Jensen ever see Malik again and marry her?

After reading all of this here, and as much as I agree to a lot of the minor criticism, my conclusion is that not only the game is awe aspiring and absolutely great, but also the ending(s). It leaves you with the bitter feeling that despite all your efforts and the power you got through the augmentations, you are still in a world of chaos that has neither a happy nor a “right” ending. I totally feel like the lost and betrayed Jensen who does not know whether he made a difference to the world nor what the whole truth about everything is, so it feels very real. Not a nice feeling, but very Deux Ex worthy - I'm blown away and yet I can understand if some people feel frustrated about that. And look at this thread: There are totally great discussions about the unanswered questions going on, speculations, character psychoanalysis etc. etc. It would be really sad if the game would have given all the answers (though yes, I still wanna see Malik again, I was on such an angry killing spree when they shot at her!).

I've also waited a long time for this game and was scared how it would turn out. But I thought that one thing would be sure and therefore rather uninteresting: The ending, since we know how the world looks like in the first DX. And yet we are left with so many questions that I can only say they made a good job.

I also think the real world pictures in the endings and the political/philosophical are cool and fit the game, as DX3 is much closer to our world as DX1. If you haven't seen it yet, have a look at the short documentary about real augmentations:
http://eyeborgproject.com/2011/08/eyeborg-activated/
Makes me think that DX1 is a science fiction game while DX3 is much more real, therefore the real world philosophical touch of the endings fits.

Benderova
4th Sep 2011, 04:23
Is it just me or does the game autosave when you've chosen your ending? Could be for an import system like Mass effect for the next game (if there is one)

Krios
4th Sep 2011, 05:50
The thing about that PDA in Zhao's penthouse suite is that Adam has no way of knowing it was authored by Bob Page. IIRC, it only uses his initials BP. And Bob Page is completely absent from the game and follows Everett's advice, only influencing events indirectly through proxies and so forth. There's no way Adam or Megan would be able to connect it to him.
I am not so sure about that. Hugh Darrow should know Bob Page, shouldn't he? And Darrow was eager to tell everyone about the conspirators. Also some smart deducing could lead them to Bob Page, maybe over White Helix --> Versa Life --> Page Industries.



I had read that PDA before I wrote what I did about Megan; she was clearly indirectly influenced by Bob Page and molded to be the way that she is. She's not absolved completely; the above post with the pictures of Adam demonstrate that she did betray him. Perhaps it would have been more effective if we could have found some sort of diary or journal authored by her in her quarters so that we could have become privy to her thoughts and see the change in her over time through dated entries, and perhaps even see some sort of lingering spark of feelings for Adam by apologizing to his memory (since she would think he's dead) in writing when she realizes that she's interacting with Namir on friendly terms. Or not, and instead see that she's oblivious to the betrayal because by using the research as a coping mechanism, it's consumed her and gradually see that change happen with no note of it made by her.

I can understand why it was left out though; sometimes, less is more.
I think they wanted to keep us in suspense about her.

Well, after seeing this white room scene again and being more attentive during it, I do not think anymore that Megan is so naive. Hugh Darrow should be some kind of hero for Megan as the pioneer in cybernetics he is. And Darrow told her that he wants to thwart the Illuminati's plans, which was true, but in a different way. But I don't know which lies Darrow told Megan why he couldn't inform Sarif about her kidnapping. Maybe he said her that they are all dead or some other BS.
And Megan had not much choice anyway, because she could not expect that someone else would come and save her. I agree that the "Jaron is that you?" line is a punch in the guts, but we don't know what exactly was going on. Namir was more robot than man and also married.
So in the moment I am in a forgiving mood regarding Megan.


i guarantee ...Eidos won't continue..the next installlation of the story...with panchea being destroyed ..as the main plot.... it doesn't make sense

Even after the white room scene Jenson said to Reed...he and her had unresolved issues that he wanted to sort out. ...so after all that he just kills himself...i doubt it. And the way he's killed of ...is boring and unsatisfying ...for a main protaganist. I think in the next story installation..sarif industries and jenson will probably get killed off...but in a away more deserving..of a hero.... I.e Sarif industries and jenson take a final stand in order to try and kill of the chimera virus project (hence the DE:HR epilogue, Dr reed is a mole and joins the illuminati in order to cause sabotage) but fail in doing so. (they die trying) its more fitting that way.
That is an interesting scenario, not so treasonous regarding Megan when she acts as mole. But of course if you want to keep the continuity, it will have to end badly for our heros.
It is quite strange that Megan had no other place to work than at Page Industries, as long as Sarif Industries and her uncle exist.

Crash Override
4th Sep 2011, 06:12
I don't think Jaron and Megan were in any sort of relationship, but the dude disemboweled Adam, impaled him with shattered glass, and was strangling him to death in front of Megan. And she loved Adam. If you see a guy do that to someone you love, you don't tend to open up to them to the point of being friendly with them. Ever.

As for why Sarif wasn't told about what was going on, he seems to be making a conscious effort to steer clear of the Illuminati. If you do the "Forgotten Acquaintances" subquest and read Athene's e-mail, you'll see that Sarif ended the investigation of Adam's background immediately upon learning about White Helix labs, a subsidiary of Versalife, which is a subsidiary of Page Industries. He also instructed Athene not to speak to Lucius DeBeers and that he wanted nothing to do with him.

Perhaps Sarif could have been dealt in, so to speak, with this plot, but he clearly wanted nothing to do with the Illuminati. I think there's more to Darrow's presence in Sarif's office at the end of your second visit to Detroit as well. Sarif is acting strange, and Darrow was there to get something according to the "Forgotten Acquaintances" subquest.

Krios
4th Sep 2011, 06:52
I don't think Jaron and Megan were in any sort of relationship, but the dude disemboweled Adam, impaled him with shattered glass, and was strangling him to death in front of Megan. And she loved Adam. If you see a guy do that to someone you love, you don't tend to open up to them to the point of being friendly with them. Ever.
Well yes, but without more info about what happened during Megans imprisonment, I can't judge. Or it is simply bad writing only with the aim to shock the audience.



As for why Sarif wasn't told about what was going on, he seems to be making a conscious effort to steer clear of the Illuminati. If you do the "Forgotten Acquaintances" subquest and read Athene's e-mail, you'll see that Sarif ended the investigation of Adam's background immediately upon learning about White Helix labs, a subsidiary of Versalife, which is a subsidiary of Page Industries. He also instructed Athene not to speak to Lucius DeBeers and that he wanted nothing to do with him.

Perhaps Sarif could have been dealt in, so to speak, with this plot, but he clearly wanted nothing to do with the Illuminati. I think there's more to Darrow's presence in Sarif's office at the end of your second visit to Detroit as well. Sarif is acting strange, and Darrow was there to get something according to the "Forgotten Acquaintances" subquest.
Thats right, but it is not what I meant. I tried to slip into Megan's shoes. Hugh Darrow told her that he is working secretly against the illuminati to gain her trust. If that would be true, as Megan I would ask Darrow to tell Sarif that I am alive so that he could rescue me. Darrow must have an excuse not to do that. Of course he didn't want her to be rescued, he wanted to use her for his plans. But maybe I am thinking to much.

Crash Override
4th Sep 2011, 07:48
I guess it is somewhat unsatisfying in the sense that Megan seemed pretty content doing her research with Adam's DNA at Sarif Industries, and her only reservation about it was that she was afraid to tell Adam. So it doesn't make sense for her to go to Page Industries at the end of the game with apparently nowhere else to go. It's just too vague and we're left to draw conclusions from scant evidence. Why didn't she go back to Sarif?

My only conclusion, besides perhaps the Hugh Darrow ending in which she's become a social pariah due to her involvement (which I don't think is right for other reasons), is that the destroy Panchaea ending is the correct one, and that with the deaths of Sarif and Zhao, their respective companies were both bought out by Page Industries. Tai Yong Medical seemed to have already bought out every other augmentation company except Sarif Industries and Page Industries, so Page Industries could have just swooped in and bought those two out and in the process achieved monopoly over the industry.

I suppose that's the flaw of this game, in my mind, from a story perspective: once you reach Omega Ranch, the game kind of goes through the motions of illuminating you on the actual story. Some more scenes with Megan would have been very useful. I think the whole ending with Panchaea was ultimately not as well done as it could have been. The endings are really vague and you don't get a whole lot of answers, and they probably went that route because that's how the original game is -- you're not really told the outcome of your choice as JC except somewhat with the Illuminati ending. But I think Human Revolution's characters were a lot stronger than the original game's, so naturally we're left wanting to know what happened to them and desire getting some sort of closure for them, but they all pretty much disappear at the end.

The game was also too vague about what happened to Megan. I think you can obviously figure out that she's changed substantially over the six months, but I'm still not sure why she would go to Page Industries after the game and would like some more information on what she was doing for the Illuminati besides the biochip. I don't see the biochip research as something that she would be necessarily invested in given that she's under the impression that Hugh Darrow is going to sabotage the Illuminati's plan and it's a sham, so she must have been working on some other stuff. She was doing nanomachines research because if you get the new biochip she injects you with some to insulate your biochip.

Maybe the "Missing Link" DLC won't be the last, and perhaps we'll get something new. Unfortunately the structuring of Omega Ranch to Panchaea doesn't allow for DLC to be placed between them...

Krios
4th Sep 2011, 08:51
I guess it is somewhat unsatisfying in the sense that Megan seemed pretty content doing her research with Adam's DNA at Sarif Industries, and her only reservation about it was that she was afraid to tell Adam.
She thought her research would benefit the mankind, so why bother. She wanted to tell it Adam but Sarif was against it. So I think Sarif is more to blame.
When you talk a second time to Sarif in Panchaea they are discussing this matter.

RKB287
4th Sep 2011, 10:40
I think that a lot of people are jumping to conclusions when it comes to what ending a possible sequel would use...

The wreckage bit that Bob talks about would fit in any ending. Let´s face it, when he get to Panchea the place is a bloody mess. It´s wrecked for sure.

Then the part where Megan talks about having nowhere to go...
In every single ending augmented people all over the world have gone on a rampage. Yeah, in some endings the guilt is focused elsewhere, or nowhere in the "destroy all" ending, but fact is that this seems to be the event that makes augmented people be treated in an even worst way then before(therefore fitting into DX1, because the guys at EM didn´t know how sucessfull the game would have been).
As to Sarif´s "truth",my guess is that Sarif, Tai Wong and all the other companies and organizations(like Limb) will suffer imensely despite Sarif´s claims. If augmentation technology is vulnerable to outside biological attacks, what makes the possibility of new attacks so small that everything would go on without a problem?
Then there´s Taggart´s ending. Let´s face it, without Neuropazine there´s rejection, and all augmented people need neuropazine. Thing is, it only takes one bad batch and people go beserk. Will the public be open to that kind of risk?
As to Darrow, he shows how vulnerable to outside interference augmentations are.

Whatever the ending,Page says it better: "There´s nothing we can´t manage,given time.".

realhangman
4th Sep 2011, 10:57
She thought her research would benefit the mankind, so why bother. She wanted to tell it Adam but Sarif was against it. So I think Sarif is more to blame.
When you talk a second time to Sarif in Panchaea they are discussing this matter.

I checked this out and it's honestly very strange that they do not discuss this matter further. Megan came to Serif with the sample, so he might know where she got the idea from to take Adam's DNA. Serif might also know more about Adam's childhood, so why don't ask him?
On the other hand, it could very well be that Megan and Serif do not know much more and someone (like Page) pointed Megan to look at Adam's DNA and she did not ask any questions just like she did not when working on the biochip/nanotechnology. And Serif is simply to blind following his dream of augmentations to trace things back and to get in the way of the illuminati.

Garrus.Vakarian
4th Sep 2011, 12:35
could it be that Megan pursued a relationship with Adam in the first place to look at his DNA? I mean Bob Page could've told her about him, a guy who's working for SWAT that has some very interesting evolutionary DNA in him? "Would you mind checking his DNA Dr. Reed? There's a big surprise in store for you.".

This would explain how they would end up together. It would also explain why it only lasted for 6 months as by then she had probably performed enough tests to ensure his DNA was really something unique like Page said it was.

Then, she convinced Sarif to hire Adam so that she could prove it to the man in person that this was indeed Jensen's DNA, an employee of Sarif industries now. In addition, having Adam right there where you work helps in case something goes wrong and more DNA samples are needed.

I mean she could use any excuse like "monthly blood tests for security personnel" to get more DNA. It's like having an unlimited supply of diamonds right there.

Moreover, having Jensen work at Sarif means that both David and Megan can control his actions more easily so that there's no room for him disappearing all of a sudden. However, Megan somehow (I say somehow because she doesn't seem to have that many emotions in her) started feeling guilty about using Adam's DNA without his permission and wanted to tell him.

Sarif, knowing that a possible lawsuit from Adam Jensen would mean the end of Sarif Industries, convinces Megan not to. Also, even if he didn't sue Sarif, he would likely leave them.

Sarif would never risk this. If Jensen ended up working for some other augmentation company it would mean that Sarif loses the exclusive discovery, and would now have to face fierce competition from the others. If only Sarif Industries has Adam's DNA, they would automatically be the No. 1 augmentation company in the world.

Makes a lot of sense that way, and Page was behind the scenes monitoring everything.

--------------------

Also this makes me wonder:

Megan: "Jaron, is that you?"

then later when Adam confronts her

Megan: "it's not what you think"

Adam: "when did you decide they could have it?" (double meaning maybe?)

Megan: "It didn't happen like that"

and then:

"After Namir brought us here"

I mean come on Eidos. Stop playing with us. :p

sadmachine
4th Sep 2011, 12:42
The most generous interpretation of Megan's sweet demeanor toward Namir I can think of is that she's doing it to keep her team from being treated harshly at the Ranch. It's obvious from her e-mails that she's still looking out for them, and she mentions (I think) that she had to fight even to be able to maintain e-mail contact with them.

xaduha
4th Sep 2011, 12:52
I'd say ending ruined DX:HR.

I was very disappointed by the turn of the game after Namir fight, by everything, endings included.
Shoop Da Whoop, zombies, 4 button finale, humanized AI, "Minority Report"-style security system
Don't feel like replaying DX:HR any time soon.

Krios
4th Sep 2011, 14:50
The most generous interpretation of Megan's sweet demeanor toward Namir I can think of is that she's doing it to keep her team from being treated harshly at the Ranch. It's obvious from her e-mails that she's still looking out for them, and she mentions (I think) that she had to fight even to be able to maintain e-mail contact with them.
This idea crossed my mind too. Maybe it is really that simple - we are just used to see conspiracies everywhere. :)


could it be that Megan pursued a relationship with Adam in the first place to look at his DNA? I mean Bob Page could've told her about him, a guy who's working for SWAT that has some very interesting evolutionary DNA in him? "Would you mind checking his DNA Dr. Reed? There's a big surprise in store for you.".

This would explain how they would end up together. It would also explain why it only lasted for 6 months as by then she had probably performed enough tests to ensure his DNA was really something unique like Page said it was.
...
Where does those 6 months come from? Do you have a timetable? Patient X was 32 in the E-Book, Jensen is born 1993 (?) so he is in 2027 ca. 34/35 years old?

in another forum i read the following:
"The official game guide says that Megan and Adam grew apart because he wanted a family but she couldn't handle being afraid for him working for the police and she wanted to finish her doctorate."

The question is: Were Adam and Megan in a relationship before she knew about his DNA? For me it seems that way. But it is a strange coincidence. Or a plot hole.

Regarding your theory:
If Bob Page knew about Adam from the beginning, why should Bob Page (who is probably younger than Adam) make such a detour over Reed and Sarif, who are not his buddies? He has his own scientists and labs. Why not simply capture Adam? Makes not much sense for me.

Edit: I find this post helpful:

First of all, Page is still an Illuminati but I think that he already plans to betray them. If you rewatch the opening sequence, it's pretty obvious that there is two conversations going on at once. The first one is about the biochip, Darrow is one of the voice and it is the plotline involving the Illuminati (if Sarif reveals the discoveries of Megan, Versalife and the Illuminati lose their control over the augmented people through the now obsolete Neuropozyne)
They planned the biochip because DeBeers couldn't get ahold of Sarif, and that Zhao fails to buy Sarif Industries even with Eliza Cassan (so Everett) trying to dramatize all that is happened related to Sarif Industries.

And the other one is Page chatting with unknown people, maybe Everett but I don't think so.
The end sequence doesn't contradict this, because from the first game, we know that DeBeers warned Everett that his affection for Page would be his downfall, and we know that Page used Everett skills (for Morpheus and the Gray Death) before betraying him.

Second of all, we know that Megan sent a sample of Adam's DNA to a lab that had a Versalife tech, so there is a chance that's how Versalife became aware that Adam was still alive.

So I think that basically, Page understood a lot more that the Illuminati about the possibilities of nanotechnology and maybe they aren't totally aware of all of his research on the subject through Versalife (maybe already owned by Page Industries or not but Page is probably closer to them than any others Illuminati thanks to Page Industries and not being hidden in the shadows), he is length ahead of them and with Megan working directly for him, he will hold really all the cards.

The only plothole is that we don't know if Page is behind the experiments on Adam, because we never know his age and between this Deus Ex and the first one, you can't really tell if he is older by 25 years or not.
And we don't know exactly the age of Adam, several documents show that he is born in 1993, but the old senile woman (senile being the key word) tells us that he should be 12/13 years old by now.

Garrus.Vakarian
4th Sep 2011, 17:24
@Krios

I can't remember exactly where I got it from, I'm not entirely sure of it either as I said in a previous post. There is definitely a plot hole as to the reason why they ended up together in the first place, whether the DNA thing was just coincidence or part of Megan's plan who knows?

As for Bob Page not capturing Adam right away I think there are many reasons why he'd prefer to use a proxy or someone (like Megan) who is close to him. Not saying I'm correct, but how else would Megan even know that Adam has this particular DNA in him? Does Megan test the DNA of all her boyfriends?

Anyway I ordered the guide a couple of days ago so I was unaware of why they split. Though it makes me believe that Adam was very naive to think someone like Megan would ever make a good wife or mother. Her own parents chose their careers over their daughter and Megan is also just like them. If you read one of the emails at the very beginning from Cassandra Reed she says "like mother, like daughter".

I wish Adam met Faridah instead. He would've never ended up augmented in the first place. Such a shame...

Doom972
4th Sep 2011, 17:42
I would've been happy if I needed to do more than pressing a button to choose an ending.

Jordasm
4th Sep 2011, 17:57
I love HR, but the endings, and just Panchaea in general, were easily the worst parts of the game.
Also, Aug zombies. Wtf.
But anyway, I know ending wise they couldn't exactly screw with the timeline of the original, but I expected more than just a monologue from Adam about morality over what is effectively a slideshow. I would have actually liked to have known what happened to the characters...

MoreDread
4th Sep 2011, 18:07
i was very disappointed with all 4 endings until someone made me aware of something that kinda fixes it.
theres more:

if you let the credits roll there is an additional ending that basically tells you that AJ's entire life and the whole story of DXHR was nothing but a test run done by bob page himself... so whatever ending you pick, none of it really comes to pass and it actually connects to the original.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 18:14
i was very disappointed with all 4 endings until someone made me aware of something that kinda fixes it.
theres more:

if you let the credits roll there is an additional ending that basically tells you that AJ's entire life and the whole story of DXHR was nothing but a test run done by bob page himself... so whatever ending you pick, none of it really comes to pass and it actually connects to the original.

.... What? I listened to the post-credits sequence and I gathered none of that from it.

Redem
4th Sep 2011, 18:51
And we don't know exactly the age of Adam, several documents show that he is born in 1993, but the old senile woman (senile being the key word) tells us that he should be 12/13 years old by now.

Well considering how afflicted she seem 12-13 probably cause her brain was too damage to count any further and perhaps has been in this state for years

Jordasm
4th Sep 2011, 19:25
i was very disappointed with all 4 endings until someone made me aware of something that kinda fixes it.
theres more:

if you let the credits roll there is an additional ending that basically tells you that AJ's entire life and the whole story of DXHR was nothing but a test run done by bob page himself... so whatever ending you pick, none of it really comes to pass and it actually connects to the original.

Yeah I saw the extra scene, and I didn't get that feeling AT ALL. The only feeling I got was Megan being a complete *****.

LkMax
4th Sep 2011, 19:28
The only real problem I had with HR was how they made the endings.
Push one of these buttons to see a "slideshow"... I expected at least a good cutscene per ending
But not because I already knew what happened in Deus Ex 1.

Krios
4th Sep 2011, 20:21
@Krios

I can't remember exactly where I got it from, I'm not entirely sure of it either as I said in a previous post. There is definitely a plot hole as to the reason why they ended up together in the first place, whether the DNA thing was just coincidence or part of Megan's plan who knows?

As for Bob Page not capturing Adam right away I think there are many reasons why he'd prefer to use a proxy or someone (like Megan) who is close to him. Not saying I'm correct, but how else would Megan even know that Adam has this particular DNA in him? Does Megan test the DNA of all her boyfriends?
Maybe Megan tested all DNA she got her hands on, like a screening. But this is just speculation. I am groping in the dark here. I don't think she would start a relationship with someone only to get DNA samples. This would be a downright ridiculous story.


Anyway I ordered the guide a couple of days ago so I was unaware of why they split. Though it makes me believe that Adam was very naive to think someone like Megan would ever make a good wife or mother. Her own parents chose their careers over their daughter and Megan is also just like them. If you read one of the emails at the very beginning from Cassandra Reed she says "like mother, like daughter".
Opposites attract. Love is blind. On the other hand, Megan is an attractive girl. And she needs a man like Jensen who takes care of her and is able to clean up the mess she causes again and again :)


I wish Adam met Faridah instead. He would've never ended up augmented in the first place. Such a shame...
But then we couldn't play DX:HR!

Redem
4th Sep 2011, 20:32
Megan strike me as the kind of girl who wouldn't sleep with a guy without at first doing a first genetic screening

(they did it in Gattaca)

Garrus.Vakarian
4th Sep 2011, 20:41
@Krios

"Opposites attract". Works in the short-run. In the long-run you can see the results as evidenced by Megan and Adam's separation.

I personally don't mind if it was a different character for the sequel to HR. Give Adam a break after he deals with Megan, permanently.

mad825
4th Sep 2011, 20:48
The only real problem I had with HR was how they made the endings.
Push one of these buttons to see a "slideshow"... I expected at least a good cutscene per ending
But not because I already knew what happened in Deus Ex 1.

I was expecting to complete an objective to get that specific ending like in the original and in IW.

Draikin
4th Sep 2011, 22:14
Like many here I was also disappointing by the ending(s). You push a button (how convenient that they had those 3 monitors with each 3 buttons there...) and only get a monologue that ultimately doesn't tell you anything about what happened to all the characters you got to meet. Since we basically already know how the world is going to change and how little our choice actually matters in the end, it would only make sense they explain what we don't know, and that's what happens to Jensen, Malik, Sarif, Taggart and any other main characters (if they actually survived). Only Megan got an actual epilogue of some sort and she's one of the more unlikeable characters in the game. I'm not even going to talk about how dumb the "lol I'll just kill everyone including myself" ending is. It's nonetheless a great game and I'll probably be getting the DLC, but I can't help but to be disappointed to see it end like this.

sadmachine
5th Sep 2011, 01:39
Since we basically already know how the world is going to change and how little our choice actually matters in the end, it would only make sense they explain what we don't know, and that's what happens to Jensen, Malik, Sarif, Taggart and any other main characters (if they actually survived). Only Megan got an actual epilogue of some sort and she's one of the more unlikeable characters in the game.

And what if you killed any of those people? Never acknowledged. And what happens to all the zombies that I made a point of not killing? No mention of them, no acknowledgment of my choice. I might as well have just mowed them all down with a heavy rifle and made things easier on myself. This is an instance where your choices don't matter at all, and it's the most important part of the game! Everything was so well-done up to that point. That's what makes it so frustrating.

imported_BoB_
5th Sep 2011, 02:21
Well considering how afflicted she seem 12-13 probably cause her brain was too damage to count any further and perhaps has been in this state for years

I don't think it's that simple, because the only reliable source is the document in the safe about the fire in White Labs, and there is only a date July 18, but not the year.
If they didn't want to be mysterious about it, it would simply be July 18 1993, wouldn't it? :D
And if the detective would have confessed, they would have killed her for sure.

(I edited the post quoted above, Page is already the CEO of Versalife, we learn this on the news after the FEMA camp)


Like many here I was also disappointing by the ending(s). You push a button (how convenient that they had those 3 monitors with each 3 buttons there...) and only get a monologue that ultimately doesn't tell you anything about what happened to all the characters you got to meet. Since we basically already know how the world is going to change and how little our choice actually matters in the end, it would only make sense they explain what we don't know, and that's what happens to Jensen, Malik, Sarif, Taggart and any other main characters (if they actually survived). Only Megan got an actual epilogue of some sort and she's one of the more unlikeable characters in the game. I'm not even going to talk about how dumb the "lol I'll just kill everyone including myself" ending is. It's nonetheless a great game and I'll probably be getting the DLC, but I can't help but to be disappointed to see it end like this.

Except that we aren't sure that it's really Eliza that is talking to us. Imagine if Everett "fixed" Eliza after you leave Montreal. Then it doesn't matter which ending you choose, because nothing tells you that the broadcast happens. And if there is a sequel, all four endings become canonical :D
After thinking about it, it makes even more sense because the final monologue talks directly to the player, breaking the fourth wall.
And it would be a perfect ending for showing that the Illuminatis are still in control of the world (minus Page) for the moment, and that Adam is a pawn no matter what, even when he thinks it isn't the case anymore.

depresso
5th Sep 2011, 05:40
I love how everyone goes on about Panchea being destroyed, what about the Omega Ranch which ALSO got blown to hell by the 'simulatenous lab accidents'.

Anyone ever think of this? as they were still doing research. As in the last bit where they are going through the wreckage.
It could also be a metaphor for the general chaos brought.

Vasili
5th Sep 2011, 10:19
I transmitted Darrow's message. I don't care for canon because it has been about 10 years since I've played the original. After all my (Adam's) searching for the truth, all the hardship endured to get to this point and considering each of the arguments made at Panchea Darrow's ending resonated with me. It felt that getting the whole unadulterated truth out was what mattered, especially considering how it felt to uncover the games conspiratorial plot.

If you want to consider canon, all the endings seem to fit well. To my knowledge (and this is trying to recall information from 10 years ago, when I was just a young kid!) the Illuminati had become weaker than what they once were, which also lead to Bob Page's split from them? My memory is very sketchy on the matter, but it doesn't really seem to violate canon to the point some people argue...

All of the endings actually seemed reasonable to me, the Illuminati ending was also very well done.. I actually felt conflicted. I mean, I know they are bad as an organization. But, the point was raised that their regulation has kept countries from descending into total unregulated anarchy before - and this seemed reasonable, especially since I'm currently touching on regulation in my studies at university.

The 'suicide' ending seemed reasonable as well. Some people refer to this ending as a cop out but I really like how Adam describes his reasoning: humanity (although I have problems with referring to 'humanity' as some sort of unitary and un-conflictual body, where-as really humanity is split into countries with very different goals and values) has decided for itself on many occasions what to do. Although, perhaps the fact that the news might still be spun, conspiracies still conspired, and the same deceitful shenanigans would occur post destruction (the Illuminati was NOT Taggart on his own, it was a collectivity of individuals - so to assume that his death would mean the death of the Illuminati is silly!) weakens this ending a little for me.

Sarif's ending gave me split feelings. I like how he yearned for a world where no-one would be held back. But I disagree that this is possible. With universal augmentation there would ALWAYS be those with better augments who are stronger, smarter and more influential than others - that is the way the world (and corporations + politics) works. I also do not agree with augmentation beyond that which is necessary for living a functional life (i.e. replacing a limb because of an accident). It feels to me as though augmentation is a way to 'cheat' your biological limitations, and it is only inevitable that - like Icarus - one will push these limits too far. Sarif's ending felt like a noble pipe dream that is laden with assumptions as to freedom of distribution (which will never happen, unless we change our entire political systems) and that doesn't consider just how ingrained inequity is within our societies (no matter what scientific breakthroughs you make!).

All in all, loved the story, and the endings were good (really made me think). I loved how throughout the game I kept guessing as to what 'the truth' could be. I loved discovering tiny little pieces of information (e.g. 'Patient X' at the beginning of the game, or Jensen's broken mirror - a symbol of his anguish at being augmented, etc.) that eventually added together to explain the main plot.
Perhaps what made me annoyed with the 'secret ending' (post credits) was Megan. I disliked her from the moment I found her in that facility.. She seems morally bankrupt and I hate how she would be connected to Page. What was most disappointing is how Jensen never really was able to get answers from Megan. It was like: "oh hai, u found me, talk 2 u laterzzz! baiii!". If there ever was a sequel/DLC it would be nice to explore these sorts of things.

Vasili
5th Sep 2011, 11:46
I don't think it's that simple, because the only reliable source is the document in the safe about the fire in White Labs, and there is only a date July 18, but not the year.
If they didn't want to be mysterious about it, it would simply be July 18 1993, wouldn't it? :D
And if the detective would have confessed, they would have killed her for sure.


She DOES have a degenerative brain disease and you DO find out that she has become senile. That is why she believes Jensen would be 12-13 because she has these two aforementioned problems. Also, based on the dialogue between her and Jensen it is pretty obvious that she isn't all there. She only says 12-13 because she has lost the plot! That's why Adam tries not to refer to himself as Adam in his interaction with her, as it will lead to more confusion and disorganised thought (e.g. 'I am Adam', 'No you can't be, blah blah...', 'How come my pa... I mean Adam's parents', etc. etc.)

imported_BoB_
5th Sep 2011, 12:12
It doesn't change what I said. Everytime there is the supposed date of birth of Adam, there is also a question mark, and on the only reliable source, there is no date.

xaduha
5th Sep 2011, 14:38
I expected two kinds of endings for DX:HR
1) Open, "to be continued" type of ending - and subsequent game(s) will ultimately end with
2) An ending where Adam has a shadow of opportunity to change the world but fails to do that, because of something beyond his power. And he leaves a legacy, his genes or something.

But this bad wrap up... What about the franchise? Where would they go from here?? It still could be an open ending, but its sure an ugly looking one.

realhangman
5th Sep 2011, 15:30
@BoB_: True, but what are the alternatives to 1993 and what difference would it make? I mean if Adam really is 12 or 13 they would have used a really advanced technology on him ;)

I could rather imagine that Page is a lot older (at least 20 years) than the about 1993 born Adam and therefore could have planned the experiments on him; but then he is really really old in DX1 (over 80, maybe then they have some sort of nanotech against aging) but then again this seems to be very far off. Seems that someone else must have ordered the experiments on Adam and then later Bob Page got ahold of it, or it's a plothole. Maybe we need a Deus Ex Machina to solve this one.

MaxxQ1
5th Sep 2011, 15:34
Having played the original Deus Ex many times I was quite dissappointed by the ending of Human Revolution.

The choices are kind of framed as "choose the future of humanity", but having played the original I already knew what was going to happen anyway and therefore felt like none of the choices really made that much difference.
It didnt feel like choosing the future so much as just choosing a bit of filler for the period in between HR and original.

Anybody else feel like this?

In other news, at the end of Tora, Tora, Tora, Pearl Harbor gets attacked.

At the end of Titanic, the boat sinks.

After Episode 3, the twins meet up later on, have a light incestuous relationship, and blow up the Death Star... twice. And the big shocker of Ep. 5 is completely ruined.

<I think the third analogy fits better.>

JCpies
5th Sep 2011, 15:42
DeBeers is certainly old enough. Just saying.

imported_BoB_
5th Sep 2011, 16:05
@BoB_: True, but what are the alternatives to 1993 and what difference would it make? I mean if Adam really is 12 or 13 they would have used a really advanced technology on him ;)

I could rather imagine that Page is a lot older (at least 20 years) than the about 1993 born Adam and therefore could have planned the experiments on him; but then he is really really old in DX1 (over 80, maybe then they have some sort of nanotech against aging) but then again this seems to be very far off. Seems that someone else must have ordered the experiments on Adam and then later Bob Page got ahold of it, or it's a plothole. Maybe we need a Deus Ex Machina to solve this one.

Sure it wouldn't change a lot of things, but it is implied in the opening sequence of Deus Ex that they experiment things in a non ethical way about the augmentation project (and sentience beings... so it would make sense that they used the Hyron Project and Eliza to make Morpheus, like the end scene suggests :D), so it would be a pretty great way to acknowledge that like this. And the age of Page does not really matter because like you said, in the Deus Ex universe, there is cloning and surely other things so all is pretty much possible.

If Page planned all this from the beginning, he would be much more evil and charismatic than just an egotistical opportunist, and isn't the main objective of a (good) prequel to reinforce the impact of the original story?

Aurgelmir
5th Sep 2011, 17:43
Sarif ending for me. What anyone decides to do with their body is up to the individual, and not up to an opressive government. Regulations, government interference, special interest groups are all the things that lead to China overtaking the USA as the world super-power.

Senladar
5th Sep 2011, 17:52
So after some solid game play and story telling, there's a nice 180 and the game goes Bruce Willis on us...That was seriously the best you could come up with? Surrogates?

All those good missions and levels, enemies and bosses, and the last two hours of the game is fighting riot police that want to slap me to death...

The last boss was a complete joke, 3 rockets, 5 typhoon and a few plasma shots in between more boring hacking and standing on a box doing nothing....even on Deus Ex difficulty, it was a joke.

The game doesn't even end....none of the four endings provide any real context other then one mans opinion of what might happen with the same video shown for all 4 of them give or take and Megan is such a poorly developed and non existing character that I didn't even care about the ending after the credits.

Loved the game (Aside from Hacking/Energy system) and I was looking forward to going back and playing it again fully stealth, but the last 2 hours of game play and the lack of an actual ending left a sour taste in my mouth...now I'm not sure.....such a disappointment....:confused:

unbeatableDX
5th Sep 2011, 17:55
yeah i pray they patch it. but maybe they left the end boring & disappointing for a reason? i dunno, to send a message? or to LOL at the reaction of us spoilt brat gamers...

Neveos
5th Sep 2011, 18:16
I think all the endings line up pretty well with Deus Ex.

1.) Darrow's: Nanotech gets developed in the dark while the world plunges into depression with the Illuminati out of power (as is the state of the world in DX).

2.) Sarif's: Nanotech and Versalife spiral out of control with their technology as the Illuminati are out of power.

3.) Taggart's: Augmentation becomes monopolized by the UN to form UNATCO, and insider corporations develop the tech for nefarious purposes while Page subverts the Illuminati.

4.) Collapse: It just developes that way.

xaduha
5th Sep 2011, 18:44
Of course they are, the whole Panchea business is a non-event, story wise.

JCpies
5th Sep 2011, 18:57
I don't hate the messages at the end of the game, I think they're a nice touch. But they should really give us closure or hints at what happens after the decision is made.

JCpies
5th Sep 2011, 19:06
Sarif ending for me. What anyone decides to do with their body is up to the individual, and not up to an opressive government. Regulations, government interference, special interest groups are all the things that lead to China overtaking the USA as the world super-power.

I was pro-augmentation throughout the game, but at the end I decided that corporations shouldn't have too much control over the human body otherwise something like Darrow's demonstration might happen again. Of course, that wouldn't stop secret experiments and in the end it makes sense as there aren't that many mechanically augmented people in the original (that we see anyway)

xaduha
5th Sep 2011, 19:15
The game lacked at least one more big city-like hub, I thought it was going to be Panchea...
Instead we got zombies

pringlepower
5th Sep 2011, 19:38
So after some solid game play and story telling, there's a nice 180 and the game goes Bruce Willis on us...That was seriously the best you could come up with? Surrogates?

All those good missions and levels, enemies and bosses, and the last two hours of the game is fighting riot police that want to slap me to death...

The last boss was a complete joke, 3 rockets, 5 typhoon and a few plasma shots in between more boring hacking and standing on a box doing nothing....even on Deus Ex difficulty, it was a joke.

The game doesn't even end....none of the four endings provide any real context other then one mans opinion of what might happen with the same video shown for all 4 of them give or take and Megan is such a poorly developed and non existing character that I didn't even care about the ending after the credits.

Loved the game (Aside from Hacking/Energy system) and I was looking forward to going back and playing it again fully stealth, but the last 2 hours of game play and the lack of an actual ending left a sour taste in my mouth...now I'm not sure.....such a disappointment....:confused:

I'm sorry, you're calling a boss that takes 3 rockets and FIVE typhoons a joke?

Aurgelmir
5th Sep 2011, 19:47
I was pro-augmentation throughout the game, but at the end I decided that corporations shouldn't have too much control over the human body otherwise something like Darrow's demonstration might happen again. Of course, that wouldn't stop secret experiments and in the end it makes sense as there aren't that many mechanically augmented people in the original (that we see anyway)

I think I was coming at it from the same direction as you, but I had a slightly different conclusion. In deus-ex the state itself is corporate sponsored, so government regulation is done with the full blessing of lobbyists and special interest groups. So without free market economics keeping them in balance, the corporations are free to pursue their agenda.

So for example the government makes a certain type of biochip mandatory for all augments, that would be open to all kinds of abuse by the corporations who lobbied for it. Better to keep government out of it altogether, and the UN, and WHO (especially WHO, telling me to go to the damn LIMB clinic...)

jtr7
5th Sep 2011, 20:18
Like Mary said, a lot can happen in 25 years...

Ulysses
5th Sep 2011, 21:20
I actually laughed when I saw the array of buttons and listened to Eliza's 'help' message. Didn't like Panchea at all, too much creeping about avoiding the zombies as was mentioned earlier. Last boss, I dunno what happened but that was pretty easy with the handy plasma rifle and a typhoon for the zombie swarm.

Garrus.Vakarian
5th Sep 2011, 21:40
So after some solid game play and story telling, there's a nice 180 and the game goes Bruce Willis on us...That was seriously the best you could come up with? Surrogates?

All those good missions and levels, enemies and bosses, and the last two hours of the game is fighting riot police that want to slap me to death...

The last boss was a complete joke, 3 rockets, 5 typhoon and a few plasma shots in between more boring hacking and standing on a box doing nothing....even on Deus Ex difficulty, it was a joke.

The game doesn't even end....none of the four endings provide any real context other then one mans opinion of what might happen with the same video shown for all 4 of them give or take and Megan is such a poorly developed and non existing character that I didn't even care about the ending after the credits.

Loved the game (Aside from Hacking/Energy system) and I was looking forward to going back and playing it again fully stealth, but the last 2 hours of game play and the lack of an actual ending left a sour taste in my mouth...now I'm not sure.....such a disappointment....:confused:

I felt the same way last friday when I finished the game. To me, Deus Ex: Human Revolution ended after the meeting with Megan and I rushed through Panchea (though I still talked to Taggart and Sarif) simply because I wanted to end the game by then.

However, unlike you I just can't get over Dr. Megan Reed and what she stands for. And I wonder what does she actually stand for? I can't believe Mary DeMarle (who seemed very passionate about character development as seen on the making of and other videos on YouTube) would actually pull something like this on us.

She's incredibly empty and to me she's not even that believable tbh. Never in my life have I met a person like her and I hope to God that I never will.

On a plus side, now that some days have passed I feel I'm finally ready to go back and claim my platinum trophy on my 2nd playthrough. My guide should be coming tomorrow or the day after. More Deus Ex is always good. ;)

P.S. For the final boss there is a simply trick that works 100%.

1) Use cloak to get to the box and either use the code from Darrow or an AUD to hack the box.
2) Go back and break into the wall.
3) Stay there until it's all over. No zombies will attack you as they won't know where you are and will get electrocuted immediately.
4) Go to Zhao and shoot her with anything.

THE END.

Yes the final boss was a joke but I'm glad it was as I hated Panchea. Give me more side missions in Detroit as that's the best part of the game!!!

El_Bel
5th Sep 2011, 22:39
Quoting Malawi Frontier Guard from rockpapershotgun forums


The endings just feel lacking compared to the previous games. There is no merging with an AI or throwing the world into a dark age, even the crazy endings of Invisible War were better. Every consequence that your choices could have had are left to your own imagination because the game is too afraid to step on the toes of the original's lore and instead chooses to wax on about human augmentation and freedom and power and morality. I'm not interested in that.

There's also the issue of the presentation leading up to the decision. That weird human-powered AI came completely out of nowhere for me. Why would you use this AI to "hack the signal"? Why is her chip rejected? Why is the boss battle such a confusing mess? The game throws those things at you in the last couple of minutes and doesn't bother explaining anything, leaving you to pull together the scraps of vague foreshadowing left throughout the game to make sense of this last room.

There are other things that bother me about the ending, like how the addition of (slightly anachronistic) Eliza feels like handwaving the issue of the impact a singular broadcast could have, so she just spreads your decision to all media (or none).

This all seems pretty harsh to say about a game I liked up to that point, but the endings really irritated me a lot.

What he said. I agree with everything.

realhangman
5th Sep 2011, 23:58
The endings just feel lacking compared to the previous games. There is no merging with an AI or throwing the world into a dark age, even the crazy endings of Invisible War were better. Every consequence that your choices could have had are left to your own imagination because the game is too afraid to step on the toes of the original's lore and instead chooses to wax on about human augmentation and freedom and power and morality. I'm not interested in that.


What he said. I agree with everything.

I'd say: Calm down here. Of course you can't merge with an AI, as you've seen how far developed that is in 2027... then you sure can throw it all to some kind of dark ages were people hate technology (Darrow).
And well, we have here at least
8
different endings of what Adam says. As far as I can remember my about 6 playthroughs of DX1, you only had 3 cutscenes, and none took any decisions you made before into account, whether you were a killer or a pacifist or whatever, so DX3 is more sensitive here.

This in defense of DX:HR, no offense!

p.s. Could it be possible that posts suddenly pop up between previously posts? I've found quite some new things in the last 2 pages which weren't there before... but maybe a problem with my view.

imported_BoB_
6th Sep 2011, 01:05
I don't understand why people want to know the consequences of things because before even starting the game, you know that no matter what you do, you won't change a thing and in the grand scheme of things, you are insignificant. The only thing that matters is how YOU responded to others threats during the game, and it's exactly what the ending is about.

The endings convey to the player exactly the same degree of frustration that Adam feels through the game.
Adam was only a genetic cobaye. He was then lied to by his parents, his girlfriend and his boss. He was a pawn (not even a pawn but merely a tool) in a conspiration much larger than him, and in the end, no matter what are his choices, Deus Ex happens. All of his existence is aimless.

If there is a DLC that brings closure to the Megan/Adam relationship, it would break all that so I hope it won't happen. I rarely found an ending so fitting to a game to be honest. Yeah I was angry at first, and I still think that in a gaming way, it's pretty bad, but storywise, it's just brilliant.

Ketzerfreund
6th Sep 2011, 01:20
Megan is Wernher von Braun in white

After seeing those suffering...
...test subjects at Omega facility, I'm more inclined to liken her to Mengele. Her colleagues are not much better ('cept the few actually trying to conspire against their captors) - oh, so all of a sudden they discover their conscience! But that's only because Shevchenko's been murdered.
I put the test subjects out of their misery, also in the hope of botching the research. Yes, I know it won't reflect in the game at all, but I simply do like to immerse myself like that. I'm in the lucky position of still having some imagination of my own left. :)

Regarding the endings - I sat there for several minutes and had difficulty deciding.
Especially after that one last line spoken by Eliza: Do I deem myself wise enough to decide for others? In the end I chose a solution which would leave the most options for further action afterwards.

For one, the destruction of Panchaea would have killed many innocents - I sent all the "zombies" to sleep, so they could've lived on normally after deactivating Darrows broadcast (had a bunch of gas grenades left. :)). Also, I didn't see why I should kill myself for the failings of others. And I'm rather pessimistic about humanity and it's course, I didn't trust people out there to manage on their own, just like I don't trust humanity in real-life.

Sarif? Well, like someone else here also said, I waited for some kind of major treachery that never came. But wait - what about replacing body parts that weren't injured, too? I have a lasting gripe with it. I never asked for this. :D Also, I am not quite that enthusiastic about the waltzing of technology over civilisation without reflection. That's never a good thing.

Darrow? The general populace would ditch the technology. Fine. And the bigwigs? In fact, (para-)military, corporations and other rich organisations with unclear motives would be the only ones able to access the tech freely. That cannot be a good solution.

So, Taggart. Sure, the Illuminati (which is basically just a name, as he points out) are puppet masters, but with that solution I could at least put my own influence on the rest of these conspirators. Or, if need be, sabotage their doings from within. If possible, I'd try to become the puppet masters of the puppet masters. So there. :)


I don't see Darrow letting the Illuminati dig through his stuff.

I don't see Darrow doing anything but sitting in a cell in Arkham Asylum. :D You don't seriously believe he runs free after what he's done, right? Regardless of the ending - he's going down.


The endings convey to the player exactly the same degree of frustration that Adam feels through the game.
Adam was only a genetic cobaye. He was then lied to by his parents, his girlfriend and his boss. He was a pawn (not even a pawn but merely a tool) in a conspiration much larger than him, and in the end, no matter what are his choices, Deus Ex happens. All of his existence is aimless.

Which reinforces my choice of the Taggart ending. For it's the only one giving Adam the chance of finally becoming significant.

I'm surprised at how concerned people are about the events in Deus Ex 1. There's still 20-30 years in between the games. A lot can (and does) happen in that time, regardless of your choice of an ending. I don't think there's such thing as a canon ending here.

Neveos
6th Sep 2011, 08:03
I kept wanting Sarif to turn up crooked.

Vasili
6th Sep 2011, 08:03
After seeing those suffering...
...test subjects at Omega facility, I'm more inclined to liken her to Mengele. Her colleagues are not much better ('cept the few actually trying to conspire against their captors) - oh, so all of a sudden they discover their conscience! But that's only because Shevchenko's been murdered.
I put the test subjects out of their misery, also in the hope of botching the research. Yes, I know it won't reflect in the game at all, but I simply do like to immerse myself like that. I'm in the lucky position of still having some imagination of my own left. :)

Regarding the endings - I sat there for several minutes and had difficulty deciding.
Especially after that one last line spoken by Eliza: Do I deem myself wise enough to decide for others? In the end I chose a solution which would leave the most options for further action afterwards.

For one, the destruction of Panchaea would have killed many innocents - I sent all the "zombies" to sleep, so they could've lived on normally after deactivating Darrows broadcast (had a bunch of gas grenades left. :)). Also, I didn't see why I should kill myself for the failings of others. And I'm rather pessimistic about humanity and it's course, I didn't trust people out there to manage on their own, just like I don't trust humanity in real-life.

Sarif? Well, like someone else here also said, I waited for some kind of major treachery that never came. But wait - what about replacing body parts that weren't injured, too? I have a lasting gripe with it. I never asked for this. :D Also, I am not quite that enthusiastic about the waltzing of technology over civilisation without reflection. That's never a good thing.

Darrow? The general populace would ditch the technology. Fine. And the bigwigs? In fact, (para-)military, corporations and other rich organisations with unclear motives would be the only ones able to access the tech freely. That cannot be a good solution.

So, Taggart. Sure, the Illuminati (which is basically just a name, as he points out) are puppet masters, but with that solution I could at least put my own influence on the rest of these conspirators. Or, if need be, sabotage their doings from within. If possible, I'd try to become the puppet masters of the puppet masters. So there. :)



I don't see Darrow doing anything but sitting in a cell in Arkham Asylum. :D You don't seriously believe he runs free after what he's done, right? Regardless of the ending - he's going down.



Which reinforces my choice of the Taggart ending. For it's the only one giving Adam the chance of finally becoming significant.

I'm surprised at how concerned people are about the happening in Deus Ex 1. There's still 20-30 years in between the games. A lot can (and does) happen in that time, regardless of your choice of an ending. I don't think there's such thing as a canon ending here.

I agree with the point in bold. Each of the endings leave the possibility of DE1 completely open. Even Darrow's, because you still have to remember that while society casts aside mechanical augs, the corporations won't necessarily follow suite (especially when you remember how much experimenting goes on behind closed doors!). Honestly, the endings were quite profound because all of them can draw parallels with real life. You always have a push and pull of organisations and characters much like in HR: some want order and control, others want to be gods, some want profits, others want everyone to see 'the truth', and some just wan't society to progress on it's own without its path being biased by anyone's desires/motives -- but through a collective agreement.

realhangman
6th Sep 2011, 08:10
I don't understand why people want to know the consequences of things because before even starting the game, you know that no matter what you do, you won't change a thing and in the grand scheme of things, you are insignificant. The only thing that matters is how YOU responded to others threats during the game, and it's exactly what the ending is about.

The endings convey to the player exactly the same degree of frustration that Adam feels through the game.
Adam was only a genetic cobaye. He was then lied to by his parents, his girlfriend and his boss. He was a pawn (not even a pawn but merely a tool) in a conspiration much larger than him, and in the end, no matter what are his choices, Deus Ex happens. All of his existence is aimless.

If there is a DLC that brings closure to the Megan/Adam relationship, it would break all that so I hope it won't happen. I rarely found an ending so fitting to a game to be honest. Yeah I was angry at first, and I still think that in a gaming way, it's pretty bad, but storywise, it's just brilliant.

Full ack!
It's all sad and depressing, but totally fitting storywise. I think they made a tremendous work in letting you feel just like Adam. And everything that really does matter is spoken about in the endings.

About the DLC: I doubt that they will spin the story to an end, as it would turn DX:HR into an unfinished game. You will get some deeper information, but nothing that will totally enlighten us about Megan etc.

realhangman
6th Sep 2011, 08:24
I sent all the "zombies" to sleep, so they could've lived on normally after deactivating Darrows broadcast (had a bunch of gas grenades left. :)).

Totally off-topic, but because I've read it several times: Is a gas grenade a non lethal takedown? I thought the people would die, just like yourself without the aug, from gas in DX3.

rubbernuke
6th Sep 2011, 09:02
I have to admit that I found the endings a little dissapointing compared to those of the previous two titles.

Although the majority of the game was excellent, I thought the philosophical side of things was underplayed, and what you chose at the end was based pretty much on what Eliza tells you the outcome will be (which in itself is ironic considering she is a program that manipulates/ influences people). In fact, judging by the end of credits sting there is only one ending, that of the start of MJ12/ Morpheus/ Helios etc and what Adam states might happen is just an opinion (since all he has done is uncover the conspiracy, and has no power to really change anything). You could argue it (Eliza) is the last defence the Illuminati have in the game- she forces Adam to choose a path rather than Adam formulate one on his own.

I suppose I wanted a more literal ending that actually played out the consequences of your choice, mainly because this is a game all about consequences and it felt disjointed to have Adam having a monologue about what 'might' happen. But then, this is a prequel, and maybe thats the design choice Eidos M. wanted. Or what I wrote above is actually true.

It sounds crazy, but the best DX endings are in DX:IW- after seeing them I felt some closure (and satisfaction) that my choices I made through the game actually meant something. In HR I just did not get this 'vibe' that anything had changed at all. I can understand people saying that they dont want it all spelt out for them, but its just nice to have proper closure in a game like this.

guillaume.oudin
6th Sep 2011, 09:28
I can only agree with what has been said so far by most of the people here. The fact is, I loved the game, I really did. I enjoyed every minute of it, the slick stealth system, the dialogs, hacking, reading emails, even sidequest were surprisingly well-made...BUT (and it's a big BUT) I can't help but feel betrayed by the ending of the game, because none of the choices I made during my play played out and even more because I spent most of my time trying to save Megan and it turns out we don't even KNOW what happens to her. I mean like someone said there is no closure to the arc : there is no proper explanation on why she did stole our DNA, what her feelings are (if she has any), what she plan to do after being held against her will for 6 months, etc...those are questions that deserved to be answered.

And then it would have been nice to see what happens during each of the endings to the characters we grew to know and care about : sarif, malik, pritchard, etc...Even see some Detroit/Hengsha in-game footage would have made it feel REAL in the world of the game, wheras in their current state the endings just feel like "could be. Also, while I understand that our decision right at the very end has a global impact, I feel the focus of the impact should have been on the main characters to illustrate this impact, because we can relate to them, we can empathize with their situation. Here, the use of real footage with total strangers quite ruined the impact for me and didn't feel like I was seeing DX world anymore. Something like : seeing Sarif industries empty and David depressed if we chose to transmit Darrow's message, or seeing Adam shaking hands with Taggart in public/in private if we chose to transmit Illuminati's message, etc....

Finally, I think it would have been nice to have "final words" to close (or not) each character arc.

I'll be honest it was a big disappointment for me and even if I know I'm going to replay the game, I'm not gonna do it anytime soon, knowing i'll be backstabbed every single time in the end.

In the end, I could be wrong, but this and several other design choices lead me to think the devs wanted to left some big things unanswered to have room and "hook us" for a sequel, which will take place between DXHR and DX. The links between the two are really loose so far, sure Manderley and Page are mentionned here and there, and so is nanotechnology. But no mention whatsoever of JC, Paul, Daedalus or Walter Simons (I mean, we can draw our own conclusions but nothing substential). I feel there is a lot to be said to fill that gap between the two.

El_Bel
6th Sep 2011, 14:52
I'd say: Calm down here. Of course you can't merge with an AI, as you've seen how far developed that is in 2027... then you sure can throw it all to some kind of dark ages were people hate technology (Darrow).
And well, we have here at least
8
different endings of what Adam says. As far as I can remember my about 6 playthroughs of DX1, you only had 3 cutscenes, and none took any decisions you made before into account, whether you were a killer or a pacifist or whatever, so DX3 is more sensitive here.

This in defense of DX:HR, no offense!

p.s. Could it be possible that posts suddenly pop up between previously posts? I've found quite some new things in the last 2 pages which weren't there before... but maybe a problem with my view.

No we dont have 8 endings at HR. We have 1 ending with some lines changed. Just some preaching about the ending we chose. The "evil" endings just change one line. Seriously. Just one line.

Deus ex 1 indeed had just 3 endings and it didnt take into account your choices. But thats ok for three reasons. First it is a 2000 game. I expected more from a 2011 game. Second, DX didn't advertise choice and consequences as much as HR. And third it did give us closure. I remember talking to Paul and discuss my options or Page begging me not to blow up A51. After i made my choice i saw what my character did afterwards. Like JC joins the not so good guys. The music reflects that from the first second. We see his idealistic nature, only to have Everett explain to him that they must operate from the shadows. And the music follows the tone of what the characters say.JC tries to put some defense. The world must know. But Everett is a conspirator and a talker. He quickly beats JC. Even with 2000 technology we see scenes from what happens to the world. Finally JC succumbs. He is convinced that the world is not ready for the truth. He whispers that. He now works for the Illuminati. And while Everett explains that they will eventually lead the world to the light, the music changes to reflect that.

What did HR do? We saw some stock footage and Jensen talking about generalities. See the Taggart's ending and tell me what does it have to do with the Illuminati. What happens to my hero? Does he work for the illuminaty now? What happens in the world? We just know what Elisa tells us. And that with the same music as any other ending. And some stock footage. Its like an like a powerpoint presentation at my sociology class about technology.

xaduha
6th Sep 2011, 16:07
By the way, in the Icarus Effect, Taggart either has nothing to do with the Illuminati or is expendable.

guillaume.oudin
6th Sep 2011, 16:37
Speaking of the Icarus Effect....I was (very) surprised that given we see Hermann in it, there is not the slightest mention of him in the game. He works with the tyrants after all. I don't know if the writer took upon him to make him appear in the book but I'm sure the devs were advised and thus they could have done something with that.

Jordasm
6th Sep 2011, 16:55
I hated Megan so much.
Sevchenko however, was a hero! He showed resistance against his kidnappers and even created a virus to stop GPL jammer. In my head, the game ended with Adam stabbing Megan, reviving Sevchenko, then Adam goes and gets drunk with Malik and Pritchard. And they all live happily ever after.

Then Adam takes over Panchaea and the chips, and becomes supreme ruler of Earth.

JCpies
6th Sep 2011, 17:03
Speaking of the Icarus Effect....I was (very) surprised that given we see Hermann in it, there is not the slightest mention of him in the game. He works with the tyrants after all. I don't know if the writer took upon him to make him appear in the book but I'm sure the devs were advised and thus they could have done something with that.

He was heavily injured in the explosion when the bomb in his truck went off prematurely, he was salvaged from the wreckage (in a river I believe) by Bob Page and I suppose that's how he got with Majestic 12. I guess he was too injured to be a part of Human Revolution, it took Adam six months to "come back from the dead" and I'm sure Hermann's injuries were just as bad - if not worse than Jensen's.

realhangman
6th Sep 2011, 19:03
No we dont have 8 endings at HR. We have 1 ending with some lines changed. Just some preaching about the ending we chose. The "evil" endings just change one line. Seriously. Just one line.

Deus ex 1 indeed had just 3 endings and it didnt take into account your choices. But thats ok for three reasons. First it is a 2000 game. I expected more from a 2011 game. Second, DX didn't advertise choice and consequences as much as HR. And third it did give us closure.

You've got good points there. Still, DX3 "reacts" (in a narrow definiton at least) more to your choice in the endings than DX1, so I think it's unfair to claim the opposite, even if it is true that the one line change is not very much.

And then there are 2 seperated areas when it comes to such games: The graphics and gameplay of course have vastly improved from 2000 to 2011, but the storytelling has not improved in a general manner, there is no difference from 2000 to 2011, either you have great writers and realize that well - or not, just like in a novel. No one expects a novel to be better simply because it's written 11 years later.
Unfortunately, advertising is all about exaggeration, nowadays more than ever, so it's no wonder this was a bit over the top. And you can imagine the pressure to have good graphics and stuff. All the bad reviews about DX:HR criticises the bad graphics (=it's not as good as Crysis 2) so I am very happy that they resisted this graphical perfection and put so mich effort in the story, and in my eyes it's great.

Oh and I hope that they don't make a sequel to the prequel (between DX3 and DX1) because what ending could you expect? The reactions would be even worse because the only choice you would have is to let the world become the world of DX1 and you would only learn that your hero would die along the way (which is what happens to Adam or do you see him around in DX1? Or did he simply retire from his search for the truth?).

Ashpolt
6th Sep 2011, 19:25
I hated Megan so much.
Sevchenko however, was a hero! He showed resistance against his kidnappers and even created a virus to stop GPL jammer. In my head, the game ended with Adam stabbing Megan, reviving Sevchenko, then Adam goes and gets drunk with Malik and Pritchard and Sevchenko! And they all live happily ever after.

Made one little edit, now I love it! Sevchenko was awesome, even though we only briefly got to see him alive at the start of the game. Hell, he was more developed than any of the Tyrants....or Megan, really.

"Vasili, where is Vasili..."

Jordasm
6th Sep 2011, 20:18
Sevchenko was the hero Gotham deserves.
I will never forget him
RIP.
Also, Rest in peace Big Rizzle

JCpies
6th Sep 2011, 20:32
Also, Rest in peace Big Rizzle

Haha, I love it when Adam says "Yeah, R.I.P" (That is the same guy right?)

RastaTings
6th Sep 2011, 20:45
I don't understand why people want to know the consequences of things because before even starting the game, you know that no matter what you do, you won't change a thing and in the grand scheme of things, you are insignificant. The only thing that matters is how YOU responded to others threats during the game, and it's exactly what the ending is about.

The endings convey to the player exactly the same degree of frustration that Adam feels through the game.
Adam was only a genetic cobaye. He was then lied to by his parents, his girlfriend and his boss. He was a pawn (not even a pawn but merely a tool) in a conspiration much larger than him, and in the end, no matter what are his choices, Deus Ex happens. All of his existence is aimless.

If there is a DLC that brings closure to the Megan/Adam relationship, it would break all that so I hope it won't happen. I rarely found an ending so fitting to a game to be honest. Yeah I was angry at first, and I still think that in a gaming way, it's pretty bad, but storywise, it's just brilliant.


I fully agree, and I was upset with the ending at first as well

guillaume.oudin
6th Sep 2011, 21:28
I rarely found an ending so fitting to a game to be honest. Yeah I was angry at first, and I still think that in a gaming way, it's pretty bad, but storywise, it's just brilliant.

Alright, I see your point, and maybe I could understand....maybe, if I didn't suspect this frustration you're talking about, wasn't intented AT ALL. To be honest I don't think the guys at Eidos Montréal made this design choice purposely and thinking "That's good, that's gonna frustrate the player thus he'll be able to better connect with Adam"

Blade Runner ending was purposely frustrating (the real one intended by Ridley Scott that is). This I could see. Here I only see a bad design decision. Also, being a toy manipulated and all has nothing to do with the fact that there should be a closure to the Megan/Adam arc opened, or at least strong hints of how it will turn out. I'm not saying there should be a happy end and Adam/Megan haveing a lot of Jensen boys and girls all hapilly living together...but an end, whatever it might be.

imported_BoB_
6th Sep 2011, 22:09
It is the third time that I said that, but you don't even know if your message is broadcasted. How can an entire team could be OK with that if it is not intended at all ? It seems impossible to me, nobody would be that dumb and besides, it's not like there isn't a cutscene in the entire game, so they took real world footage because they didn't have any money to make them.

I mean, even in a game with no story whatsoever (the first Doom comes to mind), there is a sort of closure at the end.

guillaume.oudin
6th Sep 2011, 22:33
Intended or not, I still think the game ending missed it. You know what ? I can even picture what would have been a good ending fitting with their "3 buttons" design. A pre-rendered cinematic cut-scene like the others, Jensen walking slowly toward the computer console, pushing it, then suddenly a wave of pictures on the screen (exactly like the ones they did for the very first DXHR teaser), black screen, then you hear Adam saying "*****"....End. Thanks for playing.

Way more fitting IMO.

Draikin
6th Sep 2011, 23:51
It is the third time that I said that, but you don't even know if your message is broadcasted.
Nor does it matter since it doesn't really change anything, I get that. We were basically just clicking a button to decide what Adam learned in the game and how he (we) would want the world to move forward. Perhaps the "kill everyone" option was only there to emphasize that it really doesn't matter what you do, as it seemed more a form of deliberate suicide on Adam's part rather than an actual sacrifice for the good of the world. But even looking at things from that viewpoint, I still dislike the ending for not giving us any closure on what happens with the main characters (except Megan) afterwards.

Crash Override
7th Sep 2011, 00:59
I'm thinking a more effective way to end the game is this: if all four endings are supposed to lead to Deus Ex, then instead of philosophizing because of that, instead show us how the four different endings affect the characters we've come to know over the course of the game, like Pritchard, Malik, Adam, Megan, David Sarif, etc. While the choice Adam makes isn't going to change the "big picture" so that in 25 years the situation will be what it is in Deus Ex, the choice that he makes might have extremely different ramifications upon those characters. It would also give a sense of closure, which the game was lacking IMO.

Fluffis
7th Sep 2011, 01:11
I picked the BOOM, BABY! ending.

However, I must say that I'm disappointed in the way it ended. Not the ending I chose - that ended exactly like I'd hoped - I mean the three-plus-one button choice part. The ending in DX is so much more involved. I think that comes from you actually having to do more stuff in DX, to bring about the end and the conspiracy being so intricate.

Don't get me wrong; the conspiracy in DX:HR was well-written, and interesting - it just didn't grab me by the ball-sack like the one in DX did.

In the end, I have no problem seeing this as the GotY, unless something spectacular happens in the coming months. I just can't see myself playing this game as many times as I have played (and plan on playing) DX.

Pldgmygrievance
7th Sep 2011, 01:19
I'm very interested in remembering the links between this game and the original, but its been a while since I've play the original game so I can't remember the plot so well.

Does anyone know of a good site that summarizes the different factions of the first Deus Ex? I remember Bob Page being the "main" baddie, but can't remember his ultimate goals etc. Same goes for Morgan Everret and Gary Savage.

Also, I read in this thread that there were emails in the game that mentioned Page and Everret, but I don't think I came across any of them. Does anyone remember what the jist of some of these emails were?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.