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View Full Version : Why doesn't DX: Human Revolution has "proper" anti-aliasing?



ZIGS
26th Aug 2011, 06:51
As of late developers have seem to start favoring FXAA/MLAA over true AA methods like multisampling or supersampling. FXAA/MLAA both do very little effect but also don't give a big performance hit, which is why it's getting popular on consoles. That's all fine and dandy but I'm playing on a PC. Give us some real AA that actually looks good.
It pisses me off that even PC exclusives like Trackmania 2 completely ditched MS/SS AA in favor of this FXAA crap that's both insulting and ineffective.

End rant, have a good day

cyborg34572
26th Aug 2011, 07:08
i hear ya. I want my true AA!

motsm
26th Aug 2011, 07:22
A lot of games use deferred rendering these days, because it allows for faster rendering of the advanced dynamic lighting and shadows that are so widely used now. However, deferred rendering doesn't work with traditional AA methods without using a driver profile which can work around the incompatibilities.

Check out the latest drivers for your GPU, as they might have a profile set up for HR in which you can force proper AA, although it will likely cause a bigger performance hit than normal. If the game has no profile yet, and your on an NV card, try this. http://www.geeks3d.com/20110305/nvidia-inspector-1-9-5-5-available/ Create a profile for HR, and set the Antialiasing compatibility to STALKER, which is another game that uses deferred rendering so it may have the proper work around for HR as well. If not, you can try typing 0x00001241 into the compatibility value, as I've had some luck with it in other stubborn games.

motsm
26th Aug 2011, 07:27
It has nothing to do with consoles, many PC exclusives use this rendering method.

Industriality
26th Aug 2011, 08:10
Ho, really ? Wich ones ? Nevermind... I'll use Nvidia editor to boost the AA

Daz1967
26th Aug 2011, 08:49
There are other PC games that use deferred rendering but have DX10 and/or DX11 support plus multisampled anti-aliasing (MSAA) and/or coverage sampled anti-aliasing (CSAA), e.g. Gears of War under DX10 (AA only works in DX10) and F.3.A.R. under DX11 (supports 2x and 4x MSAA). Also Codemaster's DiRT 2, DiRT 3 and F1 2010 all had MSAA/CSAA support under DX9 and DX11 and the lighting engine in those games is gorgeous to say the least. On that basis I really don't see why Deus Ex: Human Revolution couldn't also support this type of anti-aliasing as the lighting is no more advanced than any of those other games IMO.

My own guess is that it is far easier for developers to implement FXAA or MLAA due to the low performance overhead which is a huge advantage on the ageing console hardware. It's only the better developers who are willing to make the extra effort to implement MSAA and CSAA properly on the PC. That said, I'd rather have FXAA/MLAA then no AA at all or that dreadful edge-based AA that does not remove jaggies at all (like the LEGO games have, eurgh!). Also, in F.3.A.R. 4x MSAA incurs a huge 50% performance hit yet only looks slightly better than FXAA. The only penalty with FXAA is that is blurs the image slightly like the infamous Quincunx AA on the PS3.

Dapper Dan
26th Aug 2011, 13:13
Ho, really ? Wich ones ?
Starcraft 2, easily the biggest PC exclusive release of last year, if not the last 5 years. Most likely Diablo 3 will as well, seeing as it's the same engine.
But anyway back on topic, yes proper AA is always nice (*cough* also 3d vision support) ;)

WhiteZero
26th Aug 2011, 13:21
Rage a little harder.

They give us 3 different types of AA and provide 2 patches in 2 days, and people will want to moan and whine. Wow, just wow. Get over it.

ZIGS
26th Aug 2011, 14:13
What good are 3 types of "AA" if neither of them are remotely good? And I am appreciative of their efforts to support the game post-launch. And you gotta admit, it's just silly that games 10-12 years old can look better than recent ones (at least in regards to AA, which is a huge component of the visuals)

Hectick
26th Aug 2011, 15:05
What good are 3 types of "AA" if neither of them are remotely good? And I am appreciative of their efforts to support the game post-launch. And you gotta admit, it's just silly that games 10-12 years old can look better than recent ones (at least in regards to AA, which is a huge component of the visuals)

The game looks fine to me :scratch:

motsm
26th Aug 2011, 15:33
Ho, really ? Wich ones ?Crysis (partially), Witcher 2, StarCraft 2, the STALKER series, GRAW 1 and 2, Heroes of Might and Magic VI, Gothic 3, Tabula Rasa, Dungeons, and likely many others. It's a pretty big list considering PC exclusives are rare as it is.

Have tried forcing the STALKER profile on HR yet? It has a good chance of working.

failgo
26th Aug 2011, 17:09
Yes, can we please get proper Anti-aliasing support, Multisampling at least? I know you guys are using deferred shaders. But you already have DirectX 11 support in, I wouldn't think multisampling would be hard to patch in. It really is an important issue for me and many others. To me it is one of the most important features to improve image quality. We are begging.

10hellfire01
26th Aug 2011, 17:20
I can care less what king of anti-aliasing developers use as long as it acts like anti-aliasing. Anything further than about 3 feet+ ahead of you ingame has jaggies all over it...

EDIT: Never mind, seems to be DirectX 11 causing it.

Gvaz
26th Aug 2011, 22:25
Rage a little harder.

They give us 3 different types of AA and provide 2 patches in 2 days, and people will want to moan and whine. Wow, just wow. Get over it.

Yes because not speaking up about an issue is a good thing :rolleyes:

Akdor 1154
27th Aug 2011, 02:27
Might be worth filing support requests work your respective graphics chipset manufacturers - "my driver's 'Force AA' setting has no effect in DX:HR" or something among those lines - just so they at least know there is some demand for this. I know it will feel like an exercise in futility, but who knows? at least we will be able to start a flame war amongst ourselves over which mob had the dodgiest excuse for customer service. :)

bughole5
27th Aug 2011, 07:05
the aa in the game is awful man, i hate seeing all these jagged lines

jaywalker2309
27th Aug 2011, 11:01
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/deus-ex-human-revolution-face-off <- digital foundry have done their comparisons and discuss the AA implementation..

Akdor 1154
27th Aug 2011, 11:25
hmm those videos are really interesting - post-process style AA seems promising, but it still falters on very thin lines: watch the scientist's glasses arm, and the edge of his white lab coat collar. It'd be great to have traditional AA as an option for those who don't mind the frame rate drop or sold their kidneys to buy a set of 6970s or something equally ridiculous. :)

Gvaz
27th Aug 2011, 14:02
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/deus-ex-human-revolution-face-off <- digital foundry have done their comparisons and discuss the AA implementation..

All I'm seeing is that a lot of the texturework is unchanged from the 360 version, things like people's shirts, and signs and quite a few other things are blurry when they could have been better.

A gripe about the design (getting off tangent) is that hair in this game is awful, it's like plastered to their skulls. Also jittery animations like everyone's on amphetamines.

@md_Guy
27th Aug 2011, 14:49
I have to say I just LOVE (:scratch:) what people try to define as "proper" AA.. a lot of people whining that DE:HR doesn't support out of the box traditional multisampling anti-aliasing. What next complaints about how games are not supporting supersampling aa ? face it the gaming world is in transition and post processing AA is where the world is heading and in fact if many people would have their ways we'd forever be stuck with consolitis (DX9) processing for the next 10 years. I think we should be thankful that in the age of deferred rendering that a game actually comes with various AA methods at all (Edge/MLAA/FXAA) instead of having to rely upon brute force AA being forced through driver control panels, which inherently bring a plethora of their own issues. For example, how exactly by forcing MSAA with alpha coverage may interfere with the game developer's intentions. Imagine all the complaints if menus started disappearing, characters/world geometry being transparent etc because of allowing arcane aa methods from over a decade ago. If you ask me it's rather ironic, one of the most "Failed" GPU launches of date, ATIs HD2900 relied heavily upon post processing antialiasing but feel flat on it's face with "traditional" multi/super sampling methods yet here we are some years later and post processing IS the future, where game developers are able to decide what AA methods best suit their needs and how "proper" AA methods would otherwise affect their intended game.

All in all, a perfect example of be careful of what you ask for... you may just regret it. The longer developers are stuck using dated methods, the longer the industry as a whole is being held back.. IMHO, people clamoring for "Proper" Anti-Aliasing are the game developer's version of the Tea Party, the loudest minority wanting to hold the majority back for their own dated purpose. For a glimpse of what can be done moving forward I'd highly suggest people check out THIS SITE (http://www.iryoku.com/) with regards to post processing methods and learn before holding on to their dear old MSAA....

Gvaz
27th Aug 2011, 15:07
Post processing AA is never as powerful as AA in game and that's a fact. Sure there's more of an fps hit, but if you have the system to do so, then great! if you don't you're stuck with everyone else thinking it looks like ****

failgo
27th Aug 2011, 15:49
I have to say I just LOVE (:scratch:) what people try to define as "proper" AA.. a lot of people whining that DE:HR doesn't support out of the box traditional multisampling anti-aliasing. What next complaints about how games are not supporting supersampling aa ? face it the gaming world is in transition and post processing AA is where the world is heading and in fact if many people would have their ways we'd forever be stuck with consolitis (DX9) processing for the next 10 years. I think we should be thankful that in the age of deferred rendering that a game actually comes with various AA methods at all (Edge/MLAA/FXAA) instead of having to rely upon brute force AA being forced through driver control panels, which inherently bring a plethora of their own issues. For example, how exactly by forcing MSAA with alpha coverage may interfere with the game developer's intentions. Imagine all the complaints if menus started disappearing, characters/world geometry being transparent etc because of allowing arcane aa methods from over a decade ago. If you ask me it's rather ironic, one of the most "Failed" GPU launches of date, ATIs HD2900 relied heavily upon post processing antialiasing but feel flat on it's face with "traditional" multi/super sampling methods yet here we are some years later and post processing IS the future, where game developers are able to decide what AA methods best suit their needs and how "proper" AA methods would otherwise affect their intended game.

All in all, a perfect example of be careful of what you ask for... you may just regret it. The longer developers are stuck using dated methods, the longer the industry as a whole is being held back.. IMHO, people clamoring for "Proper" Anti-Aliasing are the game developer's version of the Tea Party, the loudest minority wanting to hold the majority back for their own dated purpose. For a glimpse of what can be done moving forward I'd highly suggest people check out THIS SITE (http://www.iryoku.com/) with regards to post processing methods and learn before holding on to their dear old MSAA....

What are you talking about? Post process effects are used not because they are superior, but because they help mask the limitations of deferred shaders. They are only used because you can't use any anti-aliasing in the render process with deferred shaders. They are not nearly as taxing, however, as proper AA because they don't actually do any real anti-aliasing. They just try to cover up how ****ty it looks. And sure, it looks ok on close up objects if you just glance at them. But everything else looks like crap from 10 years ago.

EDIT : IF they would introduce some anti-aliasing that actually does anti-aliasing, whether post process or not I would be all for it. As of now none of this crap is doing the job. It is infuriating investing in expensive hardware while developers continue to go the cheap route because of dated console hardware and limiting the usage of the investments we put in. Some developers actually do care about their customers. And as I see it this one does not. Continue to ignore our concerns and you will only lose more business. As of now, in my case, you have lost some already.

Arksun
27th Aug 2011, 18:49
Wierd, I'm running it default FXAA high and don't notice a single jagged edge, looks fine to me.

Gvaz
27th Aug 2011, 19:08
I guess I'm just imagining these things then:

http://www.abload.de/img/dxhr2011-08-2619-08-58abtl.jpg

Oh and the gun too.

neilthecellist
27th Aug 2011, 20:05
The jagged edges in this game in are insulting. The post AA methods that the game offers and not REAL anti-aliasing, is even more insulting.

Industriality
27th Aug 2011, 20:16
The jagged edges in this game in are insulting. The post AA methods that the game offers and not REAL anti-aliasing, is even more insulting.

I agree 100%.

:hmm:

Down Pariscope
28th Aug 2011, 05:13
I been playing with 11.8 cap 2 ccc drivers with AA / overide app / 2xEQ on.

Is it not working? I can tell a difference from that and MLAA.

Fasterkatt
28th Aug 2011, 05:30
Thought I would add some reading for those who may not understand or know the differences between regular anti-aliasing and shader based methods like FXAA or MLAA.

HardOCP's look at FXAA and MLAA used in F.E.A.R. 3: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/07/18/nvidias_new_fxaa_antialiasing_technology/1

According to the primary video card review author at HardOCP Deus Ex implements version 1 of FXAA, version 3 is the latest iteration. One thing to keep in mind is the length of time the game has been in development and when these particular methods were put into the game. I personally believe the use of FXAA is a welcome decision, however judging by the very early implementation of it in Deus Ex this may be the reason for the lack luster effect it's having compared to more traditional methods.

Akdor 1154
28th Aug 2011, 08:48
Hmm.. I tried the custom profile job referenced earlier but no deal. This is based on a Tomb Raider engine isn't it? is there any history getting AA on that?

p.s. Hi Neil, fancy seeing you here :)

failgo
28th Aug 2011, 13:28
You can't force AA in the control panels. I heard some people got supersampling working with the beta release. I haven't been able to force multisampling or supersampling. The issue here too is that with deferred shaders you can get multisampling to work in D3D11. And seeing how it is already implemented in the pc version I don't understand why they wont patch in support for it.

Its almost like they just won't allow a better AA option because they know it will blow away any of their Post process effects in quality. There is a big movement in the developer circles to promote these crappy effects because they are all married to deferred shader systems.

Down Pariscope
30th Aug 2011, 06:45
Yeah I did some tests, forcing it in CCC does nothing.

I agree the new age AA options are great for old/smaller monitors, and a 1080p TV screen, but for most modern monitors its hardly comperable to no AA at all.

It's a shame that AA EQ is being over looked, because it looks WAY better than MLAA, and makes about the same performance hit. 2EQ AA improves the image by about the same as old fashion 4x AA.

CCC needs to be updated to allow forcing 2xEQ in this game.