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View Full Version : HACKING - All Discussion - Strategy Tips and Q&As (Possible Spoilers)



mattlistener
25th Aug 2011, 15:39
What are some tips and tricks for successful hacking? Here's what I've come up with so far:

-There are a TON of hackable devices in Detroit accessible via Capture 2. Well worth 1 Praxis point even for playstyles that don't plan on hacking-based routes through areas.

-In Detroit try to get by without the Stealth or Fortify hacking augmentations for as long as you can, to teach yourself to play the minigame well. Most level 2 devices can be defeated without any augmentations -- I even hacked a couple level 3's before I hit a wall and got one level of Fortify.

-Analyze only starts becoming worth considering when you can't capture bonus datastores without using hacking consumables -- which certainly isn't true early on. Then you have to decide when the consumable savings / datastore rewards become worth a praxis point.

-Apparently there is a misconception that the Fortify augmentation only lowers the chance of detection when you Fortify a node -- which wouldn't be worth the price of admission. Hacking:Fortify also increases the strength of your Fortify by 1 per level. You start with a base of 1 in Fortify which raises the rating of a node you control by 1. The time you cost the security process by doing a level-1 Fortify is barely more than the time it costs you to execute it. However level-2 Fortifies feel very heavy-hitting by comparison.

-Always zoom out a click or two (mouse wheel works if you have it). Less screen space between nodes = faster actions.

-Take time to study the scenario. Note the location of bonus datastores (cubes). Note that the security process's route may be very different than yours due to one-way connections. There may be a node you need to Capture/Fortify to slow the opposition that isn't otherwise needed to reach your goal. Plan ahead calmly while you're off the clock.

-In some scenarios it's possible to Capture the Security node (red stack). This results in a successful hack AND auto-Captures all datastores. (Need to verify!)

-There are essentially two options for your first move: Capture just one node and hope for no detection, or kick off a Capture of multiple available nodes as well as a Fortify of your I/O port all at once, near-guaranteeing a start to the countdown. Bearing in mind that you have several attempts, it may be worth it to try for a detectionless first move. If that succeeds and you can then kick off five additional Captures+Fortifies in parallel pre-countdown, that may be enough of an edge to beat a finely-balanced scenario.

-Pre-detection, the only action you should be taking is Capture. Don't just Capture everything, only get nodes that are important to your goals, which are: Capture the directory/directories (green sphere) OR Capture the Security Server(s) (red stack), Capture nodes that the security process will need to traverse to reach you (if you plan to Fortify them), Capture optional data stores (cubes). In some scenarios Capturing a special gear-node may be important.

-Detection only has a chance to occur at the conclusion of an action. So if you have kicked off several Captures and it is highly likely that one or more of them will be detected, it is good to start kicking off Fortifies if that is part of your strategy.

-Post-detection, if you don't have enough time on the clock to complete your Capture goals, you will need to change the game somehow -- either by using Stop/Nuke consumables, or by Fortifying nodes the security process must capture (preferably before it gets to them).

-You can Fortify your I/O port too, but put it off as long as you safely can (unless there's a moment when you have nothing else to do). Taking time to Fortify your I/O port while leaving a critical-path Capturable node untouched can be a losing move.

-You cannot start a Fortify on a node once the security process has begun Capturing it, though your existing Fortify process can still complete. This is why it is sometimes important to have Fortifies already in progress when you get detected.

-The countdown is not absolute, it is an exact forecast of when the security process will kick you out based on current scenario conditions. If conditions change the countdown will update. eg: you complete a Fortify on one of the nodes it hasn't Captured yet, or a gear-node raises or lowers the rating of nodes on its remaining path. This is why in some scenarios you can be kicked out when there were many seconds left on the timer -- a "Transfer" node near your I/O port lowered its rating.

-If a "Stop" virus is needed to complete a scenario, it is most effectively used right at the beginning of the countdown so that you can Capture and Fortify more nodes before the security process reaches them. (The opposition uses Fortify against you!)

-Automatic Unlocking Device is useful even for well-augmented hackers, in situations where you are only briefly unobserved at the target machine. Note that AUD does work on computer consoles.

-When you get locked out, don't stare at the screen for 30 seconds, go get a drink of water or do some pushups or something. :-)

-Augmented Hacking: there appear to be two general strategies, Fortify-based and Stealth-based. A Fortify-heavy strategy hopes for at best a single detectionless capture before going into the race against time, but uses heavy-hitting Fortifies along the opposition's path (after being detected) to ensure enough time to complete the goal. A Stealth-heavy approach tries to get most of the hack done before the opposition even starts. Different scenarios are more susceptible to different strategies. If the opposition is forced to traverse some moderately high-rated nodes to reach you and you can fortify them all before it starts on them, you will have plenty of time to get stuff done. If the opposition has a comparatively short, low-rated, or multibranched path to reach you, then a Stealth-based approach has an advantage. In the later stages of the game both Fortify and Stealth augs will probably be needed to succeed.

My impression so far is that a Capture+Fortify strategy will beat more scenarios (or use less consumables) than a pure Capturespam strategy, *regardless* of one's augmentations. Capture+Fortify starts out just doing Captures, but once the currently-running Captures are likely enough to be detected on their own, it starts doing Fortifies on the nodes that the opposition will reach soonest.

Even a player with all three Stealth augments (-45% detection) will soon find themselves trying to capture three 90%-45% = 45% detection nodes at once early in a scenario. That set of actions would collectively have only a .55x.55x.55=.17=17% chance of going undetected -- so they can probably benefit from running some key Fortifies at the same time rather than just waiting for the Captures to finish.

Q&A:
-how do i queue multiple nodes to capture at the same time?

When you start a capture on a node, a progress bar fills up over time on that node until it is catpured. You do not have to stare at this bar until it is complete before doing something else. In the time that it takes a level-2 node to capture you can kick off 4 other captures/fortifies.

-How is it possible to kick off 5 actions as your second move? (See above.)

Consider a scenario in which your I/O port can see two nodes, and each of those nodes can see two more. As a first move you capture a node, wait for it to finish, and are not detected. You now own two fortifiable nodes and have access to three capturable nodes. If the ratings are all 2 or higher you can get all three Captures and two Fortifies going in the time that it takes the first of those five actions to complete.

-Why does the "remaining attempts" counter stay stuck at 4?

The "remaining attempts" counter is the number of times you can start a hack and then Disconnect before the device goes into a 30-second lockdown. If you are booted out by the security process the device goes into 30-second lockdown and "remaining attempts" is reset. A locked-down device will set off an alarm if available, so hitting Disconnect on a failing hack can be critically important.

-What do the different special nodes (gear) do?

Spam: lowers the rating of the security process by 1. This is the number that appears on the opposition's start node (red stack). A lower-rated security process takes longer to do Captures. Thus the more Captures the security process still needs to do, the more effective this is. [Need to know: does Spam hurt you if the security process Captures it first? After one player Captures it, does it still provide its benefit when the other one Captures it?]

Transfer: Applies +2 rating to one neighboring node and -2 rating to another. The nodes chosen are random each time -- ie if you re-run the scenario, it may choose different nodes. [Need to know: After one player Captures it, does it repeat the Transfer effect when the other one Captures it? Or undo it?]

Clearance: Applies -2 rating to all datastores. This can be bad for you if the security process needs to Capture a datastore on its way to your I/O port. [Need to know: only for the player who Captures it or both? What happens when it's Captured by the second player? Does it also lower the rating on nodes you have already Captured?]

Soften: Applies -1 rating to all neighboring nodes. [Need to know: only for the player who Captures it or for both? What happens when it's Captured by the second player?]


Wanted:

-Say a 1-rating node requires 3 seconds for the security process to Capture, while a 2 requires 6 seconds to Capture (made-up numbers here). 2 seconds into the security process Capturing a 1 node, your Fortify finishes making it a 2. Does the opposition keep its 2/3 progress, requiring only 2 more seconds to complete? (1/3 of 6) Or does the requirement change to 6 full seconds to Capture the node, so an additional 4 will need to be spent after the 2 spent so far?

sygyzy
25th Aug 2011, 18:28
I'll have to be honest. I've watched both tutorials, read the help and various threads and still have no idea what I am doing. All I do is go out and try to capture as many nodes as I can. As you can imagine, I fail 50% of the time. I wish someone would make a video of an actual hack and do a voiceover, step by step, of what they are doing.

Jerion
25th Aug 2011, 18:38
I'll have to be honest. I've watched both tutorials, read the help and various threads and still have no idea what I am doing. All I do is go out and try to capture as many nodes as I can. As you can imagine, I fail 50% of the time. I wish someone would make a video of an actual hack and do a voiceover, step by step, of what they are doing.

The goal of hacking is to capture a chain of nodes from the starting point to the target (represented as a green sphere). When you capture the target, you have hacked the system. Along the way there are other special nodes such as datastores that might contain information or hacking software, or modification nodes that can change the strength values of other nodes. The enemy is the security system that attempts to trace any incursion back to the source. When you capture a node, you have a chance of alerting the security system to your presence and if that happens, then it is a race to see which side can reach it's objective first.

As an alternative, you can attempt to capture the security system node. This may not always be possible, but it will guarantee a hacking win over that device and may reward you with extra software. More complex devices may have multiple targets or multiple security systems; if this is the case then every such target or security must be captured for you to succeed.

Algent
25th Aug 2011, 18:51
About hacking eidos need to bind the 4 options to the keyboard arrows, since you're acting against time you almost ALWAYS missclick for the so precious Stop/nuke virus :'(.

redial
25th Aug 2011, 19:02
When you capture a node, you have a chance of alerting the security system to your presence and if that happens, then it is a race to see which side can reach it's objective first.



after the first mission i upgraded my hacking capture to lvl 2. thats it.

on every single lvl 2 hack i do, i estimate a 100% detection rate within the "base" and the first "node"
It had degraded into a race for the final node every single time.

is there another aug that i need to reduce my detection rate? it seems like there are half a dozen hacking augs, and
if you go heavy hacking, thats pretty much all you specialize in

Dr_Bob
25th Aug 2011, 19:12
About hacking eidos need to bind the 4 options to the keyboard arrows, since you're acting against time you almost ALWAYS missclick for the so precious Stop/nuke virus :'(.

Wait, so I'd have to use my mouse and have my fingers on the arrow keys?

I'd rather have the hacking options be more spaced out and perhaps have keyboard and mouse shortcuts, such as Space to activate Stop! Worm, clicking once on a captured node to fortify it and maybe Q for the Nuke Virus.

I remember seeing a post about this shortcut idea, but I cannot remember who made that post so sorry if you're reading this.

redial
25th Aug 2011, 19:40
the tips say to try to capture 5 nodes at a time, how do i queue multiple nodes to capture at the same time?

I am realizing that i have no idea what i am doing with hacking

yaur
25th Aug 2011, 20:25
-When you get kicked out, don't stare at the screen for 30 seconds, go get a drink of water or do some pushups or something. :-)
alternatively, disconnect before you get kicked out.

-instead of capturing the target nodes you can capture the enemy starting node which is much easier on some of the maps.

Quillan
25th Aug 2011, 20:44
the tips say to try to capture 5 nodes at a time, how do i queue multiple nodes to capture at the same time?

I am realizing that i have no idea what i am doing with hacking

Each node you currently control has pathways leading out to one or more other nodes. I don't recall right now whether you can launch multiple captures from the same node if it has multiple paths, or if each node can only perform one operation at a time. However, you can definitely do one operation from each node you control. Say you currently control three nodes plus the I/O port, laid out in a Y formation with the I/O port at the base. The two nodes at the tips of the Y can each attempt to capture a node while the junction node and the I/O port are each running fortify programs. The potential problem is that each operation you do has a chance of triggering the trace program. However, once the trace program has launched there's no penalty for doing that.

Occasionally you'll see a system that has two registries, and you have to capture both to succeed. If you're doing one of those and trigger a trace early, you'd better have multiple captures going at once.

Jerion
25th Aug 2011, 20:48
after the first mission i upgraded my hacking capture to lvl 2. thats it.

on every single lvl 2 hack i do, i estimate a 100% detection rate within the "base" and the first "node"
It had degraded into a race for the final node every single time.

is there another aug that i need to reduce my detection rate? it seems like there are half a dozen hacking augs, and
if you go heavy hacking, thats pretty much all you specialize in

There is a Hacking Stealth aug which is a relatively lightweight investment, designed to reduce the chances of detection. The more you upgrade it, the less likely you are to set off the security system. Personally I've found that just investing in hacking clearance and the hacking stealth augs while ignoring the others has worked out fine (YMMV).

I don't suggest fortifying the starting point often as it's a chance of triggering the security system before you've made any progress.

ReliantLion
25th Aug 2011, 21:12
I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've been using the SPACE bar to do the STOP virus. I agree with the arrows being a usable input, but I'd even rather use WASD. Maybe double tap D for Fortify, double tap A for Nuke, etc. It almost seems the hacking UI is impeded purposefully, to make it more of a challenge, which is OK for me.

I think the savescumming comment is funny, since most people (myself included) probably take longer to do it this way. As far as I can tell, there is no penalty for failing other than alarms going off. For most systems, it's harmless to fail until you run out of tries.

sygyzy
25th Aug 2011, 22:15
I understand the goals of hacking but I don't understand what all the paths are for, or specifically what the computer is doing to trace me. At what point does it "find" me? When it's path reaches the blue sphere?

killerp
26th Aug 2011, 00:29
I hate using a mouse to capture nodes, would much rather using shortcuts on the keyboard to speed things up. If that's a design choice to slow you down, I have no problem with that (You devious dev people!)

Many times I have accidently wasted precious nuke viruses by clicking the wrong icon.

Jerion
26th Aug 2011, 00:31
I hate using a mouse to capture nodes, would much rather using shortcuts on the keyboard to speed things up. If that's a design choice to slow you down, I have no problem with that (You devious dev people!)

Many times I have accidently wasted precious nuke viruses by clicking the wrong icon.

They do like to complicate things. They took on Deus Ex, after all...:whistle:

Shinnflowen
26th Aug 2011, 05:41
of all the tutorials, I believe the hacking one needed more detail as it can be very confusing to people who never played anything but call of duty in their life.

nathanj
26th Aug 2011, 05:57
i maxed out the hacking augment and the stealth augment. never used the analyze or fortify as you can simply nuke stuff if you nervous about it or use the STOP worms. once you get level 5 hacking and 3 stealth anything 3 or lower is 15% detection rate and 4 goes up to 35%. i will admit that ive reloaded a couple of saves to bypass the waiting time thing but ive only done it 3 or 4 times. its pretty easy once you max out.

mattlistener
26th Aug 2011, 16:58
Updated top post with some Q&A's and improved some of the tips based on feedback so far (and my own further learning in-game).

What are the possible rewards from the optional datastores? Here's what I've seen so far:

Stop/Nuke viruses
Credits
XP awards


If I were designing the game I'd have a single datastore in some brutal near-end-game hack award a praxis point, paying back the player who buys Hacking:Analyse and discovers a node that every other player would pass over because it just looks too expensive/challenging to be worth trying for. :-)

I'm really enjoying the hacking game. I don't want to beat it by augmentation, I want to beat it by good gameplay -- only getting augments when I'm running into scenarios that just don't seem to be beatable with my current abilities.

Quillan
26th Aug 2011, 17:02
This is not so much a hacking tip as it is a stealthy hacking tip: hacking does NOT pause the game. Cameras keep moving and guards keep patrolling while you are hacking. It will set off alarms if you do it in view of security. Guards will warn you first, so if you hear "Hey, back off buddy!" you'd better disconnect. In one place, I had to wait on a guard patrol to move away, hack a security hub, disconnect and hide, and wait for him to leave a second time before turning off the cameras and robot. In other places it may help to EMP a camera with a grenade or a stun gun to buy yourself a few seconds.

dimljajvbu
26th Aug 2011, 17:08
I want to beat it by good gameplay only getting augments when I'm running into scenarios that just don't seem to be beatable with my current abilities.

Didn't they say it should be beatable with no augs? Making them somewhat redundant... But that's another topic.

dragunz
26th Aug 2011, 19:48
There is a Hacking Stealth aug which is a relatively lightweight investment, designed to reduce the chances of detection. The more you upgrade it, the less likely you are to set off the security system. Personally I've found that just investing in hacking clearance and the hacking stealth augs while ignoring the others has worked out fine (YMMV).

I don't suggest fortifying the starting point often as it's a chance of triggering the security system before you've made any progress.

I agree, stealth early on with capture 2 worked fine for me too, just stay calm and aim for the core if detected which happens at one point of the hack of course. You may leave some registry loot on the way but aside from a credit or xp boost and some progs the trade off is not worth it early on. later the detection aug becomes a worthy choice to be able to pinpoint if the node is worth the trouble.
Fortify later too to avoid early detection, again if you are not going the hacking way for your playstyle do not invest too much since the augs are numerous and you need to keep them up to date the further in the game you go.

Jetsonix
26th Aug 2011, 20:32
I haven't put any points into hacking because I have no interest in doing that sort of thing. But some quests require you to have Hacking 1...okay so I did that and put a point into Hacking 1. Later on in game you run into another side quest requiring you to hack into a computer.....sigh....so I go to Hacking 2....more wasted precious praxus points into something I don't wanna invest in..sigh

Pretty soon another quest comes up...you need Hacking 3...omg....okay at this point I am wondering why they are forcing us to invest points into Hacking? It's almost like this game is nothing but a Hack-fest! Everytime you turn around some door or computer needs hacked!!! It never ends! I didn't buy this game to be forced to hack crap...I got no interest in this BS....just give me a weapon and lemme shoot...sheeesh!

Retitle this game DeusHacksorz! I mean,..really...you forcing us to Hack...why? I don't like this at all. Some doors are locked requiring a code you can hack OR you can shoot the door in and knock it down..I like that...BUT ..how do you do that on a computer? Right now I am in the Hive with NO WAY of getting into the lvl 3 media center up in the lounge area because I cannot do the lvl 3 Hack..just can't do it and not wasting anymore time on it....another side quest DELETED...thanks alot! :mad2:

mattlistener
26th Aug 2011, 20:32
Didn't they say it should be beatable with no augs? Making them somewhat redundant... But that's another topic.

You say redundant like it's a bad thing. If there is more than one way to accomplish a goal, then there are redundant solutions. This is something for which DXHR is receiving critical acclaim.

An augless completion of DXHR will likely not involve many hacks beyond the early game, though one could hoard Stop/Nuke viruses in order to perform a small number of path-opening hacks at key junctures.

nathanj
26th Aug 2011, 20:51
you can easily max out hacking and stealth hacking without gimping your character. the first things i upgraded were my hacking stuff and increasing my inventory.

you can ignore fortify and analyze those are useless.

GreyTemplar
26th Aug 2011, 21:11
I haven't put any points into hacking because I have no interest in doing that sort of thing. But some quests require you to have Hacking 1...okay so I did that and put a point into Hacking 1. Later on in game you run into another side quest requiring you to hack into a computer.....sigh....so I go to Hacking 2....more wasted precious praxus points into something I don't wanna invest in..sigh

Pretty soon another quest comes up...you need Hacking 3...omg....okay at this point I am wondering why they are forcing us to invest points into Hacking? It's almost like this game is nothing but a Hack-fest! Everytime you turn around some door or computer needs hacked!!! It never ends! I didn't buy this game to be forced to hack crap...I got no interest in this BS....just give me a weapon and lemme shoot...sheeesh!

Retitle this game DeusHacksorz! I mean,..really...you forcing us to Hack...why? I don't like this at all. Some doors are locked requiring a code you can hack OR you can shoot the door in and knock it down..I like that...BUT ..how do you do that on a computer? Right now I am in the Hive with NO WAY of getting into the lvl 3 media center up in the lounge area because I cannot do the lvl 3 Hack..just can't do it and not wasting anymore time on it....another side quest DELETED...thanks alot! :mad2:

I haven't gotten that far in the game or done much hacking yet, but are their not other ways for bypassing the security? Such as listening, scrounging, for a code/login/password?

Quillan
26th Aug 2011, 21:16
You don't have to spend points for Hacking 1; you get that free with your augmentations. Most quests have alternative possibilities. Cloak & Dagger, for example, has an alternate route into O'Malley's building (jump from roof to roof, but might require the cyber legs for this one) and a non-hacking way into his back room with the rating 4 lock (hidden pocket secretary with the door code). However, I think I have seen a couple of side quests that did require Hacking at higher levels to complete.

If you had the Explosive Mission pack, you could at least use the automatic unlocking device on doors, but I doubt that would work on computers.

nathanj
26th Aug 2011, 21:30
You don't have to spend points for Hacking 1; you get that free with your augmentations. Most quests have alternative possibilities. Cloak & Dagger, for example, has an alternate route into O'Malley's building (jump from roof to roof, but might require the cyber legs for this one) and a non-hacking way into his back room with the rating 4 lock (hidden pocket secretary with the door code). However, I think I have seen a couple of side quests that did require Hacking at higher levels to complete.

If you had the Explosive Mission pack, you could at least use the automatic unlocking device on doors, but I doubt that would work on computers.

i mostly hacked when i was playing the demo but i remember using the auto unlockers on a computer so i think they also work on those as well. they are very OP and along with the silenced sniper rifle its one of the reasons i opted just for the regular game.

Glyph
26th Aug 2011, 21:31
I'll do a no-hack playthrough and see what happens but so far there are always alternate methods of completing a task. In some cases you do require other specific augments to complete these alternate methods but then again you did save praxis points by not investing into hacking so this would be justified.

So far the one thing that I absolutely love about Deus Ex is that there are so many unconventional ways to complete a task. I also love that some of the quests make you actually figure out what to do instead of holding your hand the entire time. Hacking is an important part of Deus Ex but it certainly is not required in every possible situation, although there are a few where it is mandatory and usually these are level 1 hacks.

ishiki
26th Aug 2011, 22:01
Yes, there's probably a bit too much hacking.

But there's some routes you can only get if you get the parachute augment (I forget what it's really called). Some routes only if you can break through walls. One time a door had a level 5-ranking and I just shot it down. Because I'm only at level 2. You can often find passwords though. But, hacking, or doing other things is easier and quicker as some passwords I've found were at the other side of the city.

But some routes alternate routes are only available through hacking.

dimljajvbu
26th Aug 2011, 22:53
I find the hacking annoying because it relies too much on reflexes and luck, which, for a "peaceful" activity, is kind of messed up :rolleyes:

Jetsonix
26th Aug 2011, 23:03
I'm just about ready to uninstall this game and throw it in the trash. I'm fed up with all this hacking. I'm at Tai Yong Medical...probably 60% of the game done and it just continues on and on and on....hack this door..hack this computer ...move to this location and load screen...repeat

I feel like a rat in a maze running around for some cheese! You see this is why pc gaming of this genre has been failing for years. PC mmo gaming is much more successful because it is more wide open and you don't have to hack your way every three feet! :mad2:

I'm done with this game

Evanovic
26th Aug 2011, 23:05
Explore around enough and you WILL find alternatives to hacking.

VectorM
26th Aug 2011, 23:09
I am yet to find a single quest that requires you to have any points in hacking, other than lvl 1, ofc.

There is ALWAYS another way, if you couldn't find it, sorry, you just fail at the game.

Shralla
26th Aug 2011, 23:13
I am yet to find a single quest that requires you to have any points in hacking, other than lvl 1, ofc.

There is ALWAYS another way, if you couldn't find it, sorry, you just fail at the game.

This. OP is crying like somebody's pointing a gun to his head and telling him to put points in hacking. I can't tell if he's trolling or not.


You see this is why pc gaming of this genre has been failing for years. PC mmo gaming is much more successful because it is more wide open and you don't have to hack your way every three feet!

But I get the feeling he might be.

in_cognito
26th Aug 2011, 23:23
I can't tell if he's trolling or not.

now when you mentioned it..:scratch:

nomotog
26th Aug 2011, 23:55
Ya there is a bit too much hacking. Though if you are tired of it, there are many other ways to open doors. Have a few extra landmines, a shotgun, or a gernade. All of them are able to open doors for you.

iLk
27th Aug 2011, 00:10
So, is there an offical answer to the question,

Do 'hack only' computers exist in the game?

Rpenn seems to indicate 'yes'. . .anyone confirm?

FeepingCreature
27th Aug 2011, 02:38
I think OP might have a point.

In my experience, while there are often alternate paths, hacking is the approach that gets you ahead via the fastest, most direct route, and that kind of clashes with the covertness of hacking, ie. if I was playing a frontal-assault type of character, it'd be beneficial to invest in hacking because it often enables a more direct approach, and that's kind of conflicted.

I don't really mind though.

Dentrick
27th Aug 2011, 04:26
Good grief. I can't at all empathize with the OP.

I've strongly considered murdering everyone in the police department just so I could read all the E-Mails.

Look at what video games does to me. I'm a danger to society, unless I get to read someone E-Mails.

StingingVelvet
27th Aug 2011, 06:48
I am getting tired of hacking late in the game just from doing it so darn much. I dislike mini-games in general, so doing the same one like 300 times it getting a bit grating. They should have had the max hacking upgrade be an instant-hack-everything skill.

WhiteWi
27th Aug 2011, 15:12
Hacking is great! Please don't listen to cry babies

Kyle873
28th Aug 2011, 02:57
And no, I don't mean the minigame! :P

So I've already mentioned my document of notes for DXHR hacking in a few places, but here it is again.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2321290/DXHR%20Hacking%20Notes.txt

With all this going on, I have made a video of my retardiculous 10mm Pistol I made in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb0wKPm1JdI

And here's another one from MgrInzPlayer, demonstrating a "double-barreled Chainshotgun" and a super fast Stun Gun, as well as the crazy 10mm Pistol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sllyFgkm-s

Just thought some people would want to see this, as there's no way I'm giving up on hacking this game apart, even without Eidos' help.

imported_the_guy
28th Aug 2011, 08:21
Hah, awesome.

andrey319448
28th Aug 2011, 17:29
and who knows something will still go to the DLC
Deus Ex

sonicsidewinder
28th Aug 2011, 18:01
What annoys me about hacking is that no matter what, it's always more beneficial to just do it.

Even if you found a key-code for the door which alone takes skill to acomplish, it's pointless to use the code when you can just hack it.

You get no experience for using the code. You don't get all the bonuses available to u from hacking. It makes no sense! There is no balance in this.

"Great i've just hacked into this really hard terminal, found the passcode to the door ahead. Great!"

*...a few takedowns and stun guns later"

"Right i'm here at the door, i could input the passcode and get no xp. Or i could hack it anyway, get xp for that and any proboble bonus xp. How pointless these codes are."

But what if you're not speced in hacking you may say. Well, even if you find the pass code, like i said before, you don't get any xp so wtf?

The only reason to type codes is so that guards wont become suspicious of you hacking.

It's a system that works, but it's very broken and mis-managed. It used to be in DX you hack for the keycodes. WHY?

SO YOU CAN SAVE YOUR MULTITOOLS!!! In this it's just hack hack hack, gotta get xp. Don't let me get into some of the pointless augmentations as well...

Rindill the Red
28th Aug 2011, 18:04
I've got a question about hacking.

Why did you make it so tedious, bland, easy, and put it everywhere?

Doors don't need to be hacked.

Safes don't need to be hacked.

Maybe the hacking mini-game wouldn't get so repetitive if you didn't have it EVERYWHERE?

And what about "Hey, this has been hacked?".

A very simple balancing act for hacking would be to have certain guards notice when something has been hacked!

Suddenly, the player has a reason to use the actual pass-codes as opposed to hacking EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE!

sajin
28th Aug 2011, 20:03
Protip: ^^
You don't have to capture the normal target node in all scenarios. Instead, capture the enemy entry node(s). This has the big benefit of implicitly capturing all data node. I.e. capture the red nodes and get all data stores for free...

Kyle873
29th Aug 2011, 03:07
Oh cool, my completely unrelated thread got moved into this one. FFFFFFFFF...

nakedhand
29th Aug 2011, 04:56
I'm just about ready to uninstall this game and throw it in the trash. I'm fed up with all this hacking. I'm at Tai Yong Medical...probably 60% of the game done and it just continues on and on and on....hack this door..hack this computer ...move to this location and load screen...repeat

I feel like a rat in a maze running around for some cheese! You see this is why pc gaming of this genre has been failing for years. PC mmo gaming is much more successful because it is more wide open and you don't have to hack your way every three feet! :mad2:

I'm done with this game

I love the hacking aspect of this game. It´s easy, quick and provides me with a lot of XP for praxis.

I chose to max out hacking as quickly as possible in the game, since information wants to be free..

Kyle873
29th Aug 2011, 05:01
The funny thing is, this is the super SIMPLIFIED hacking. They made mention of the fact that in the earlier stages, it was MUCH more complicated. Imagine all these people getting annoyed with it having to try dealing with that.

mattlistener
29th Aug 2011, 16:33
I agree that the XP benefits from Hacking are overly weighted in favor of grinding that aspect of the game even if you don't enjoy it.

They should have made the base XP award for hacking a device apply for any method of defeating the device, including entering the correct password. That would correctly reward the exploration approach (find a pocket secretary / overhear something / etc and then also locate the correct place to use the information). Yes there are still occasional XP rewards in datastores, but if that's all you were after it would then be harder to justify spending the 5000 XP per point of hacking-related augmentations.

On the flip-side, it would have been cool to make hacked devices detectable by guards. Hacking:Fortify could then reduce this. Either "Guards detect hacked devices from a moderate/short/up-close range", or "Guards get Hostile/Alarmed/Suspicious" when noticing a hacked device, with the highest level making your hacked devices undetectable. That would have integrated hacking into the game world even more -- you'd have to decide between taking out guards whose patrol route would discover your hack, investing in the relevant augment, or using a password after all.

I'm very keen on the exploring aspect of the game, so I want to hack everything in order to read the supplemental material / access locked rooms / etc. But on my second playthrough I'm going to try it without investing any points in hacking. Focus instead on getting other route-opening augs early: Lift Heavy, Break Through Walls, Icarus Landing, and High Jump (which I bet is worth more than people think). That'll keep me focused on finding stuff I'd missed in the game world rather than re-beating all the minigames.

Plus it will actually mean something when I find a password! :-)

mattlistener
29th Aug 2011, 17:19
Updated top post:
-Added some initial notes on what the various API nodes do, need more info.
-Capturing the Security node also rewards all datastores (confirm?).
-Hacking:Fortify aug increases the rating boost of Fortifies, in addition to reducing detection rate of Fortifies.
-Automatic Locking Device works on computers.

I still want to know what happens when a Fortify finishes on a node that the opponent has part-captured. Do they keep their # of seconds progress toward the new time requirement, or do they keep their % progress toward the new time requirement? (If the former, kicking off a Fortify just before the opponent reaches a node is just as good as having the Fortify finish before they get there. If the latter, completed Fortifies are much stronger than just started ones.)

Nightcrowe
29th Aug 2011, 20:55
I'll have to be honest. I've watched both tutorials, read the help and various threads and still have no idea what I am doing. All I do is go out and try to capture as many nodes as I can. As you can imagine, I fail 50% of the time. I wish someone would make a video of an actual hack and do a voiceover, step by step, of what they are doing.

I too have watched, listened and failed utterly to understand how I'm supposed to do this hacking lark :mad2:
I end up having to quicksave before any hack, click on anything that looks remotely do-able, then load the quicksave again when it inevitably goes horribly wrong. Sometimes I get in :D and have no idea how I did it :hmm:
I managed to get through DX1's hacking ok but this system is beyond me :nut:

Kyle873
29th Aug 2011, 21:15
I too have watched, listened and failed utterly to understand how I'm supposed to do this hacking lark :mad2:
I end up having to quicksave before any hack, click on anything that looks remotely do-able, then load the quicksave again when it inevitably goes horribly wrong. Sometimes I get in :D and have no idea how I did it :hmm:
I managed to get through DX1's hacking ok but this system is beyond me :nut:

How could you NOT get through DX1's hacking? all you did was press a button lol.

Nightcrowe
29th Aug 2011, 21:20
I know.:rolleyes: It was all so much simpler way back then..... :o

Rindill the Red
30th Aug 2011, 01:18
What annoys me about hacking is that no matter what, it's always more beneficial to just do it.

Even if you found a key-code for the door which alone takes skill to acomplish, it's pointless to use the code when you can just hack it.

You get no experience for using the code. You don't get all the bonuses available to u from hacking. It makes no sense! There is no balance in this.

"Great i've just hacked into this really hard terminal, found the passcode to the door ahead. Great!"

*...a few takedowns and stun guns later"

"Right i'm here at the door, i could input the passcode and get no xp. Or i could hack it anyway, get xp for that and any proboble bonus xp. How pointless these codes are."

But what if you're not speced in hacking you may say. Well, even if you find the pass code, like i said before, you don't get any xp so wtf?

The only reason to type codes is so that guards wont become suspicious of you hacking.

It's a system that works, but it's very broken and mis-managed. It used to be in DX you hack for the keycodes. WHY?

SO YOU CAN SAVE YOUR MULTITOOLS!!! In this it's just hack hack hack, gotta get xp. Don't let me get into some of the pointless augmentations as well...

THIS.

100 TIMES THIS.

All you have to do is give XP for using the actual codes/passwords. Otherwise, hacking is over-incentivized.

a2moosh
30th Aug 2011, 13:28
THIS.

100 TIMES THIS.

All you have to do is give XP for using the actual codes/passwords. Otherwise, hacking is over-incentivized.

Somehow true.
I augmented hacking up to lv3 and reduced detection by 30%. Now I can hack more or less everything getting XP, money & viruses. But you're right. The question is, why can I hack every door, terminal whatsoever? I just don't need any code. So far I just saw one level 5 door.

I think that there could be done some changes to either improve the use of codes or maybe Keys and the hacking itself. Most of the time I don't care if the intrusion detection starts chasing my IO Port, as I am usually faster hacking through all nodes before I got detected ^^

As well I wonder that you can hack anything right beside the owner or a security guard (e.g. in China) and they just don't care :-)

p.s. I can't understand why ppl don't get how it works or what they do...just click on help at the hacking screen ;-)

meselfshimself
30th Aug 2011, 15:55
Hacking in DEHE is only daunting if you didn't read up on it, but between the Hacking tutorial video and the HELP screen, it is crystal clear, trust me.
On a side note am I the only one who thinks that 'Datastore reveal' under the Hacking assistance Aug tree is a bit of a waste of Praxis?
Do I really need to know if im going to win credits, nukes or XP?
IMO there is way more important stuff to spend Praxis on :)

mattlistener
31st Aug 2011, 18:08
Hacking is a visible but silent activity. So if an NPC is standing right next to you but looking away, you can hack something you're not supposed to. Though be aware that some NPCs will automatically turn to face you if they're aware of you.

On the other hand, an NPC on the other side of the room will object if he or she looks in your direction while you hack something.

mattlistener
31st Aug 2011, 18:26
Updated top post:

-Transfer: Applies +2 rating to one neighboring node and -2 rating to another. The nodes chosen are random each time -- ie if you re-run the scenario, it may choose different nodes.

-Clearance: Applies -2 rating to all datastores (cubes).

Rindill the Red
31st Aug 2011, 18:29
What I would have loved to see is more intense longer hacking with greater rewards/consequences.

What I mean: You could hack a single panel to get through some laser field (though I'd hope they'd bring back multi-tools or a similar mechanic)... or, you could hack into a terminal, and then from that terminal launch a hack against the entire network or system, which would be much more difficult and longer (and with deeper RTS mechancis) yet give you different levels of access to all the computers on the level/building and all of the security systems.

So you could find a computer and hack its interface to access it's personal files and controls, then from there you could hack "the network", and conquer a certain subset of the security for the building/level depending on your in-game and personal skill (if you manage to connect to the outside, you could have Pritchard co-op the hack). Then from one spot, you could wreak havoc on the level, say by deactivating alarms, opening doors to let greasals out, re-program or take control of robots, insert your identification into the security database (say by giving yourself a visitors pass or the like -- which would tie in well to a deeper stealth-social combination where you need to convince enemies that you belong there), make cameras ignore you, etc. etc.

The fact is... the gameplay mechanics designed for DX:HR are woefully simple and could have been much more engaging and interesting with more effort and leveled complexity.

DanB2644
31st Aug 2011, 18:37
First time poster. Played Deus Ex on PC when it released. Playing DE:HR on PS3.

I agree, the hacking tutorials are more confusing than informative.

First rule: hack everything you can, even if you already have the password. The XP adds up to praxis points.

I invest in hacking stealth and hacking fortify augs.

I always do a save just before I start the hack.

Here's my strategy when hacking. (I hope i go the node colors correct from my memory)

1) Analyze your path from your login node (blue sphere) to your end node(s) (green spheres). Pay attention to the direction arrows as some paths may only allow one direction of travel. These can benefit you as the core 9red tower) may only be able to take one path back to your login node (blue sphere) which makes it easier to fortify that path when needed.

2) After you've analyzed your goal, analyze how the core(s) (red towers) will reach your login nodes(s) (blue spheres). Their paths may be completely different to your login node (blue sphere). Also figure out if you can capture the red tower(s) -- do you have a path that will let you reach the tower (not blocked by a one way path)? If so, you may want to just capture the core (red tower) instead of the end nodes(s) (green sphere(s)). If you capture the tower(s) the hack is successful. I still havent verified if you get all the datastore goodies if you capture the towers.

Once you have analyzed the routes and planned your strategy:

3) Now begin activating nodes. Check the detection percentage of the available nodes. Try activating the node(s) with the lowest detection % first.

As I get closer, I will start considering to fortify a node (which increases its resistance to the trace which gives you more time to hack). As I capture nodes, while I'm waiting for that node to be captured I have my cursor over the captured node closest to the core (tower) so I can quickly set that node to fortify if the trace begins. Once the trace begins, I backtrack and fortify all nodes up to and including my login node (blue sphere). I have seen trace times up to 45 seconds or possibly even higher if you fortify and activate the API nodes.

I try to build a partial path to my end nodes (green spheres) and to the red tower.

Also, activate those API nodes when you can as they will usually slow down the trace.

And yes, try to capture the datastores. Most of the time it will just be XP points (stop or nuke virus also), but those add up to praxis points.

imported_El_Zilcho
1st Sep 2011, 03:38
I think the terminal he's trying to hack is actually the "Media Screen Control Terminal" in the Hive. I have lvl3 hack and no programs on me and I have tried over and over but I can never win. If anyone can find the code for this one please let me know.

mattlistener
1st Sep 2011, 15:24
I think the terminal he's trying to hack is actually the "Media Screen Control Terminal" in the Hive. I have lvl3 hack and no programs on me and I have tried over and over but I can never win. If anyone can find the code for this one please let me know.

Post a screenshot of the scenario (if that's allowed here) and folks will give specific tactical advice.

Also be sure to state your current hacking-related augs (ie how many levels of Hacking:Stealth and Hacking:Fortify).

If I'm recalling that hack correctly, Fortify was crucial. Sometimes the security process's path to you is just too short/easy to give you time to get anything done, so you have to Fortify. If you've been getting by using Stop/Nuke instead of Fortify, you've gimped your game.

imported_El_Zilcho
1st Sep 2011, 21:13
Post a screenshot of the scenario (if that's allowed here) and folks will give specific tactical advice.

Also be sure to state your current hacking-related augs (ie how many levels of Hacking:Stealth and Hacking:Fortify).

If I'm recalling that hack correctly, Fortify was crucial. Sometimes the security process's path to you is just too short/easy to give you time to get anything done, so you have to Fortify. If you've been getting by using Stop/Nuke instead of Fortify, you've gimped your game.

I decided to add 2 praxis for stealth hacking and with that and 1 stop program I was able to get it with less than a second remaining.

ZakKa89
1st Sep 2011, 22:57
You guys know you can capture the red node too right? You get all bonuses this way as well

mikadri
2nd Sep 2011, 09:11
I have tryed now for the last 2 hours,reading allmost every post in this thread,searching Utube and IGN for every single little thing about this hacking "minigame".
And still, I DONT UNDERSTAND what I´m doing!!
And it´s absolut not easier when english is my second language.
I have hacked some dors and pc´s early in the game,but I have absolut no idea how I did it,and it was only because there was´nt so many "nodes"(?),I think I succeded.
Well,I have 3 praxis point I could put in some hacking augs,-but where the hell do I put them when I have no idea what I´m doing?
Please,let me play and enjoy this long waited DeusEX game,and not waste time trying to understand what I´m doing every 2 minute!!

mattlistener
2nd Sep 2011, 16:43
Part 1:

As simple as possible:

-You need to capture the green "target" node. Or the "red stack" node if there's a way to get to it.

-If there are two of that color, you need to capture both for it to count.

-You start controlling one node. You can only capture nodes that are connected to a node you control. To capture a node, click on it and select the top icon (looks like a flag).

-You can usually reach more than one uncaptured node at a time. This is important because you don't have to wait for one capture to finish, you can have several going at once.

-Some connections are "one-way". They look like dotted lines with an arrow in the middle saying which way you can go on that line.


If you understand the above, then you know what is the action that will win the hack, and the steps you need to get there. This is way better than just capturing nodes at random, and is probably enough to beat any level-1 device. If you don't understand the above, ask a specific question. :-)

mattlistener
2nd Sep 2011, 16:44
Part 2:

If you know what you need to do but keep running out of time, then you need to understand what the other player is doing and what the different nodes mean.

-Every node has a number next to it. The higher the number, the longer it takes to capture.

-The other player starts at the "red stack" node.

-The other player is doing the same thing as you: capturing nodes it can reach until it captures your start node and you lose. The countdown tells you how long it will currently take him to get there.

-The other player is also fortifying nodes a few seconds after it captures them. That raises the node's rating, making it harder for you to capture them.

-There are three things that give you more time: avoiding detection (helped by points in Hacking:Stealth), fortifying nodes you've already captured (helped by points in Hacking:Fortify), and using Stop/Nuke viruses. Special gear nodes can also do useful things for you -- but it depends on the situation.

-When you go to capture a node, there is a "chance of detection" number between 0% and 100%. 0% is no chance. 100% = you will be detected. 50% = an even chance, etc.

-Each point in Hacking:Stealth lowers this chance by 15%, meaning you will usually capture more nodes before the other player even starts. If you would really rather not learn how to play the hacking minigame, invest 3 points in Hacking:Stealth and you'll usually be able to capture your target node(s) before time runs out (perhaps after a couple tries if you get some unlucky early detections).

-Each point in Hacking:Fortify increases the amount of rating you can add to a node by 1. If you never fortify, don't invest points here. However in my experience 1 point in Hacking:Fortify is worth 2 points in Hacking:Stealth, if played well.

-Fortify has a chance of detection too. However once you've been detected there's no downside to it other than having more things to click on. Fortify is the icon on the bottom when you click on a node.

-If the other player is forced to capture certain nodes on its way to your start node, and you can fortify them before it gets there, it will take him longer to capture them and thus you will have longer on the countdown. You gain more time doing this than you lose from the extra clicking.

-You can't start a fortify on a node that the other player has already started to capture, but your existing fortify command can still finish.

-Nuke is an undetectable insta-capture. It saves you the most time if a) you use it before being detected, and b) you use it on a high-rating node. But if you can win by nuking the last node and will lose if you don't, go for it.

-Stop pauses the other player for something like 4 seconds. It saves you the most time if you use it right when you're first detected, because that will prevent the other player from fortifying nodes before you get to them, and will allow you to fortify more things yourself. But again, if you're near the end and can only win with an extra few seconds, go for it.

-Nuke is the icon in the left when you click on a node. Stop is the icon on the right. You can also hit spacebar to invoke Stop.

-In the top post on this thread I have some information about what the gear nodes do. Spam is the one you should focus on if you're just trying to win the scenario. Every Spam node lowers the other player's rating by 1. This makes him take longer to do all his captures and fortifies. It also makes it easier to capture his home node for the win (the red stack).

If you understand the above, then (with practice) you'll be able to win most scenarios. If you don't understand the above, ask a specific question!

Hypevosa
2nd Sep 2011, 16:54
Best advice I can give:

1. Look at the security node - if there's a 2 way connection, that is your target. Hacking it not only means an automatic win, but you get everything in the data stores.

2. Zoom out. Zooming out will make it so there's less click and drag time as you adjust your view - it allows you to work extremely fast, both hacking and fortifying points, and wasting little time.

3. Always go after the lowest number nodes first (if you need to go that way). There's no reason to set the security off early.

4. Open all the data stores, and don't be afraid to work multiple paths simultaneously. Hacking programs, credits, and experience are always useful, there's no reason not to get all the data stores you can - and sometimes you'll need to work in 2 or more directions if you want to reach the node AND the data stores in time.

5. Don't be afraid to back out instead of using a program. There's no reason to not just back out if the game is being cheap and sending security after you when there was only a 20 or 40% chance of you being caught. Back out, start again, chances are you'll be better off.

6. It doesn't matter if someone's looking at you, so long as there's something blocking their view. I've hacked a pad that was 3 feet from a guy, by stacking 2 garbage cans inbetween me and him so he couldn't see me. It works, just be careful you're covering everyone, and don't be afraid to back out and rearrange things before trying again when they yell at you.

7. Hack EVERYTHING. It's free experience, and it adds up over time. Praxis points are precious and you need all the exp you can get.

mikadri
2nd Sep 2011, 21:25
:)Thanks for the last cupple of posts here.Now I´ve finally got the princip(!)into my head.Also it gave a lot of advantage to drop my 3 praxis point into "stealth".That gave me much more time to actually see what I was doing and what happend,because I did´nt get cought so fast and often.
Now I finally enjoy the game fully,and I´m just as exited about the game as I was about the first, 11 years ago.(I`ve forgot all about Invisible war...).
..but ehh,-hav`nt they stolen a lot from the first one?
I mean,:"dont enter the ladies bathroom",a cop name Manderley,the choice of lethal or non lethal weapon in beginning,and so on.
I know,-it´s out of topic,but I could´nt resist saying it,and also I find it ok.

Hypevosa
3rd Sep 2011, 08:33
I still don't have any ranks in hacking stealth - I just put all 5 ranks into hacking so I can hack anything, and I find that there's ALWAYS a way I can hack a system quickly and efficiently, usually using minimal viruses if any. Maybe I'm just good at it >_>

Mjesko
3rd Sep 2011, 11:46
Hacking is a visible but silent activity. So if an NPC is standing right next to you but looking away, you can hack something you're not supposed to. Though be aware that some NPCs will automatically turn to face you if they're aware of you.

On the other hand, an NPC on the other side of the room will object if he or she looks in your direction while you hack something.

Are you sure about this? I ask because in the police department every time i try to hack a door and get detected, but not kicked out or spotted, everyone runs in my direction and starts shooting at me.

I think the hacking is great in DEHR, but too luck based. As soon as you capture the first node the system should try to locate you and the stealth augmentation should increase the time the system needs to detect you.

ricardosamuel1961
3rd Sep 2011, 11:59
I hate hacking, and I got extremely frustrated with the hacks in the game. So I invested a lot of my praxis points into buffing the hacking augs, bought a crapton of software - now almost every hack is a cakewalk, and I'm usually done and out before the clock even starts.

Btw, you don't really need hacking all that much. Most story-relevant hacks are Lvl 1, a couple of times you do need higher skills.

The funny thing is: if an NPC catches you hacking, he'll raise the alarm. But he has no problem with you "stealing" the pocket secretary that's right under his nose.

ricardosamuel1961
3rd Sep 2011, 12:06
I think the terminal he's trying to hack is actually the "Media Screen Control Terminal" in the Hive. I have lvl3 hack and no programs on me and I have tried over and over but I can never win. If anyone can find the code for this one please let me know.

Max out your hacking augs, buy software, make sure the dude across the room doesn't see you, save just before starting the hack. I couldn't care less about the hacks in the game, and I hacked the Hive terminal on my second attempt.

The "reward" for hacking the Hive terminal is underwhelming, to say the least.

rwhit85
4th Sep 2011, 00:50
I've only just gotten to Montreal, and I have ~15 of each - nukes and stops. I'm playing on hardest difficulty, if that makes any difference.

It's so easy that I can hack a level 5 system in a patrolled area, since it only takes a few seconds when I have to (nuke nuke nuke nuke done!) and I get those nukes back in a few more hacks anyway.

Which is kind of weird, because I heard a lot of people complaining that it was too hard/random.

unbeatableDX
4th Sep 2011, 00:54
yes. although it is the best hacking mini-game in any game i have played, all you need is hacking capture level 5 and your set. no need for any other hacking augs. however i have encountered a few who say it is hard. they probably skipped the tutorial. its good that the tutorials are on the main menu.

Shralla
4th Sep 2011, 02:49
I find hacking to be just as difficult as it needs to be. The fact that you admit you need to spam nukes to succeed means that they're worth using, and not only that, but are necessary. If hacking was "ridiculously easy," you would be able to hack everything without using any stops or nukes at all, which just won't ever happen.

gwlaw99
4th Sep 2011, 03:59
I've only just gotten to Montreal, and I have ~15 of each - nukes and stops. I'm playing on hardest difficulty, if that makes any difference.

It's so easy that I can hack a level 5 system in a patrolled area, since it only takes a few seconds when I have to (nuke nuke nuke nuke done!) and I get those nukes back in a few more hacks anyway.

Which is kind of weird, because I heard a lot of people complaining that it was too hard/random.

Hacking was very hard for me at first because the tutorial was completely unhelpful and I had no clue what was going on. I had to find out from an Internet thread what red nodes do. Now that I understand it and my hacking level is high, it is pretty easy. I almost never use nukes and hack everything I can...even if I have the code. It is still extremely well done as a mini game.

Pinky_Powers
4th Sep 2011, 05:03
Hacking is good. Not too hard, not too easy. And the randomization is exquisite; sometimes a level 4 or 5 would be a breeze, and sometimes I would feel the need to spend an AUD on 'em.

The most important thing has to be that after hundreds of hacks, the process never grated on me, and the rewards were usually worth my time.

Nyysjan
4th Sep 2011, 05:21
If you invest on hacking augs like i have, hacking is ridicously easy, even level 5 system goes down without nukes or stops in couple tries, but, that is if you invest on hacking augs, without them you end up using resources instead, all in all, i think it's balanced.

Now, the problem comes from ridicilous amount of praxis points you end up with if you go and do everything like me, so investing in hacking augs does not really loose you anything else.

Pinky_Powers
4th Sep 2011, 06:09
Hacking was the first thing I really maxed out. Levels 4 and 5 were always a challenge right up till the end of the game.

"Challenge" meaning I had to work at it, not that they were "too hard". :)

Frag Maniac
4th Sep 2011, 07:20
LOL, odd how you make a thread bragging about your hack skills, then say you need to use 3 nukes on one hack.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 07:23
yes. although it is the best hacking mini-game in any game i have played, all you need is hacking capture level 5 and your set. no need for any other hacking augs. however i have encountered a few who say it is hard. they probably skipped the tutorial. its good that the tutorials are on the main menu.

I never used the tutorial, all you need is common sense and quick reflexes (in some cases).

Pinky_Powers
4th Sep 2011, 07:34
I never used the tutorial, all you need is common sense and quick reflexes (in some cases).

^... This.

It's all really intuitive.

ZakKa89
4th Sep 2011, 07:42
I think it's just right. There are a couple hard ones, couple of easy ones.
More importantly: It's surprisingly fun

Frag Maniac
4th Sep 2011, 07:45
I think the bottom line is it can be made easy as pie if you use some or especially all of the software and augs available, but to say it's too easy then say you're using multiple nukes per hack is like saying the whole game is too easy without ever playing on higher then Easy difficulty level.

Painman
4th Sep 2011, 10:06
Level 5 Capture and full Stealth. I always go after the security node, if possible. Instant pwnage of the full grid. I don't have to use the softwares much anymore, as my detection rate is really low now. I have a lot of them. I still carry them around, but don't need them often.

Doom972
4th Sep 2011, 11:51
If you invest many praxis points into you hacking augs, hacking becomes very easy, but you neglect other augmentations for when hacking isn't that useful. If you want your character to easily do things other than hacking, you'd probably want to upgrade other stuff before fully upgrading those augs.

Locutus of BORG
4th Sep 2011, 14:42
Have you guys played the first game? You hacked by punching 1+1================= etc. on a bunch of calculators.

jd10013
4th Sep 2011, 16:20
Have you guys played the first game? You hacked by punching 1+1================= etc. on a bunch of calculators.
what are you talking about? in the original you just pushed a button that said "hack" and then pushed "exit" before the green bar ran down. where did you see calculators and 1's :confused:

anyhow, as to the original topic, just don't upgrade your hacking outside of the level at which you can hack at. then it's quite challenging.

JCpies
4th Sep 2011, 16:56
what are you talking about? in the original you just pushed a button that said "hack" and then pushed "exit" before the green bar ran down. where did you see calculators and 1's :confused:

anyhow, as to the original topic, just don't upgrade your hacking outside of the level at which you can hack at. then it's quite challenging.

Maybe he's talking about the original build for the first game, it looks a lot different to the one in the final game. Not sure though.

rwhit85
4th Sep 2011, 16:58
The fact I need to use nukes isn't because 5's are too hard - it's because when there's a 10 second gap when a patrol turns his back and I need to get in that computer, nukes cap faster than standard caps. It's not about the difficulty of beating a 5 (which is easy), it's about beating it in a few seconds - which is impossible just due to capture times on some level 5's.

Part of the problem is I don't need to *manage* my nukes for those tight situations. I have way too many.

just_dont_do_it
4th Sep 2011, 18:30
Because you hack way faster with a mouse. It's obvious.

loudent
4th Sep 2011, 18:36
Hacking is actually quite easy, but I'm always going for full capture and that can sometimes fail just by a bad roll on the first node.

rwhit85
4th Sep 2011, 18:38
Because you hack way faster with a mouse. It's obvious.

Ah... are most of the complaints coming from console players? I could totally see the hacking interface being a pain with a controller.

Dr_Bob
4th Sep 2011, 19:14
I'd love to have a mobile app of the hacking minigame.

Frag Maniac
4th Sep 2011, 20:47
The fact I need to use nukes isn't because 5's are too hard - it's because when there's a 10 second gap when a patrol turns his back and I need to get in that computer, nukes cap faster than standard caps. It's not about the difficulty of beating a 5 (which is easy), it's about beating it in a few seconds - which is impossible just due to capture times on some level 5's.

Part of the problem is I don't need to *manage* my nukes for those tight situations. I have way too many.There's really not that many places in the game where you have to hack uber fast due to guards. A little patience, careful route planning and knocking out one or two here and there can avoid all that. I just don't get the feel you're using balanced, practical gameplay methods if you think you need to slap a few nukes on lots of terminals.

Obviously it's player choice, but to CHOOSE to use a method whereby you rely almost solely on hacking to get you through, then turn around and complain that it's ridiculously easy because in making that choice it causes you to heavily exploit the available software seems redundant and rather contradictory. After all, it is YOUR choice to play that way.

And even if we weren't to argue methods and choices at all, it's merely a matter of the game recognizing the skills you choose to use and rewarding you with more of such tools so you can keep using them. What is so ridiculous about that? It's like someone wanting to become a hacker, mail ordering tons of Hacking for Dummies books, then complaining to the the place he ordered it from that he's not a dummy.

Most people would be happy to get the tools used a lot in reward, even if they pile up a bit, and just sell the extras, rather than complaining about the self created avalanche of goodies.

mad825
4th Sep 2011, 20:53
That's the point, Jean-François said that he didn't like the fact the hacking in the original is non-interactive.

Frag Maniac
4th Sep 2011, 21:03
I've revisited the original last night just to refresh my memory. Turns out much of the hooplah about it was merely due to it rating high on the curve compared to other games out at the time. Sure the story was pretty good, but many gameplay features were lackluster. The hacks were done via finding codes, logins and passwords. There weren't any skill-required mini games at all. In fact you could even easily exploit things like crouching under tables near hack panels to unrealistically hack them from cover of turrets. What long arms and vision you have JC. Some of the security measures didn't even make sense. There would be places where the NSF stacked heavy crates to block doors, but even though you couldn't lift them without the appropriate aug upgrades, you could easily push them aside.

rwhit85
4th Sep 2011, 21:12
There's really not that many places in the game where you have to hack uber fast due to guards. A little patience, careful route planning and knocking out one or two here and there can avoid all that. I just don't get the feel you're using balanced, practical gameplay methods if you think you need to slap a few nukes on lots of terminals.

Obviously it's player choice, but to CHOOSE to use a method whereby you rely almost solely on hacking to get you through, then turn around and complain that it's ridiculously easy because in making that choice it causes you to heavily exploit the available software seems redundant and rather contradictory. After all, it is YOUR choice to play that way.

And even if we weren't to argue methods and choices at all, it's merely a matter of the game recognizing the skills you choose to use and rewarding you with more of such tools so you can keep using them. What is so ridiculous about that? It's like someone wanting to become a hacker, mail ordering tons of Hacking for Dummies books, then complaining to the the place he ordered it from that he's not a dummy.

Most people would be happy to get the tools used a lot in reward, even if they pile up a bit, and just sell the extras, rather than complaining about the self created avalanche of goodies.

The reason I sometimes hack a terminal with limited time is because I'm doing a nonlethal play through, and having the option to not knock out a half dozen or more guys (and also worry about guards finding them and setting off alarms).

I have combat augments, defense augments, and stealth augments - I'm not just 'hacking' my way through the game. I don't have maxed stealth hacking.

I didn't start this thread to say "Eidos, make it harder!" I started it to ask what problems are people running into that I'm not.

ufo8mycat
5th Sep 2011, 01:57
I think I have like 35 nukes and 42 stops. They are completely useless when you go for the hacking augs, as you will either reach the registry before the timer reaches 0, or you get there anyway without triggered the timer :D

If you put no points into Hacking:Stealth, then the STOPS & HACKS become useful.

I still find the hacking mini-game fun to play regardless though

Frag Maniac
5th Sep 2011, 06:50
The reason I sometimes hack a terminal with limited time is because I'm doing a nonlethal play through, and having the option to not knock out a half dozen or more guys (and also worry about guards finding them and setting off alarms).

I have combat augments, defense augments, and stealth augments - I'm not just 'hacking' my way through the game. I don't have maxed stealth hacking.

I didn't start this thread to say "Eidos, make it harder!" I started it to ask what problems are people running into that I'm not.No I'm not saying you're asking for the impossible or implying you're the only one that has an easy time of it, it just sounds like the main complaint is not so much the ease of getting through the hacking (otherwise it could be done with no extra tools), but rather the rewards given. Sure the Nukes pile up, I have that happen too, but they stack to a pretty high count per slot, and you can always sell any extra.

Mjesko
5th Sep 2011, 06:58
Hacking is good. Not too hard, not too easy. And the randomization is exquisite; sometimes a level 4 or 5 would be a breeze, and sometimes I would feel the need to spend an AUD on 'em.

The most important thing has to be that after hundreds of hacks, the process never grated on me, and the rewards were usually worth my time.

Yep and the hacking system reminds me of Shadowrun 3.0.

Khezef
12th Oct 2011, 01:52
I have read about the hacking exploit, and for some reason it does not work for me. I am talking about the one where you reload your save before you exit the hack screen and it compounds the bonuses you get from the square nodes. From what I understand, this only works on XB/PS3 because only there you can access the pause menu right from the hacking screen. On PC, Esc which leads to the menu also closes the hack screen and accepts the reward. Is there another way to get the menu without quitting the hack screen, or am I doing something wrong?

pukster
12th Oct 2011, 13:29
I'll have to be honest. I've watched both tutorials, read the help and various threads and still have no idea what I am doing. All I do is go out and try to capture as many nodes as I can. As you can imagine, I fail 50% of the time. I wish someone would make a video of an actual hack and do a voiceover, step by step, of what they are doing.

Same here, I just wing it.

Khezef
13th Oct 2011, 00:09
You aim for the green sphere nodes, thats the best way to beat the hack. Get the cube nodes if you want some XP/cash/viruses, or the cog-shaped nodes if you want to slow down the enemy trace and/or speed up your own. If you see a clear path to the red rectangle "server node" tower, go for it. Capturing that kills the enemy basically, stopping the trace and awarding you all bonuses from the cube nodes.

brangdon
14th Oct 2011, 21:31
-Each point in Hacking:Fortify increases the amount of rating you can add to a node by 1. If you never fortify, don't invest points here. However in my experience 1 point in Hacking:Fortify is worth 2 points in Hacking:Stealth, if played well.Some useful posts in this thread, thanks.

My current belief is that it's worth getting Hacking:Capture up to level 5, and before you leave Detroit, but it's best not to spend points on any other hacking aug.

You need level 5 if you want to be able to hack every security device in the game. It's worth getting just before you leave Detroit the first time, because there is a level 5 door near the helipad, and although you don't strictly need it to read Malik's private emails, it helps. However, there's no rush apart from that, and it's fine to increase Hacking:Capture over the first quarter of the game gradually, as and when you need it.

At level 5, if you know what you are doing (and everyone who has read this thread should), the easy hacks are easy and the hard hacks are interesting. If you are diligent, you should build up a plethora of Nuke and Stop tools from hacking the easy security systems (they are common bonus data server rewards) and from looting. You can use these if you find a hard hack a bit too interesting.

A point in Hack:Capture reduces detection percentage by 10%, and a point in Hack:Stealth reduces it by 15%, so if your basic level is high enough that you can try to hack a given terminal, Hack:Stealth will make it easier than Hack:Capture. However, you are probably going to want Hack:Capture at 5 eventually anyway, so that's a better place to put points in the long run. I don't know so much about Hack:Fortify, but the same probably applies.

It's my belief that if you put points into Hack augs other than Capture, hacking just gets too easy to be fun. (This is true for a lot of augs. They are so powerful, they solve problems completely and allow you to completely ignore elements of the game that ought to be interesting obstacles.) You will also find you end up with scores of Nuke and Stop tools, which you will never need to use, and that's annoying.

JSj
16th Oct 2011, 11:58
Not just talking about hacking, but all aspects of the game, I think it's impossible to balance things perfectly between going the direct, fast route, and taking your time, exploring everything, taking out every enemy, doing every side mission and hacking everything.

Since the game needs to be playable without exploiting everything, this means you're going end up with tons of stuff and credits that you have no need for if you take your time and exploit everything to the max, including nukes and stops.

nemhook
18th Oct 2011, 22:10
Edited and deleted all contents as a short sighted mod didn't bother to read my full post and merged it with this one.

Lv4
18th Oct 2011, 23:01
Here is a tip that I added in another topic, for those of you who often trick the capture percentages:
- press escape when the timer is nearly finished, the popup shows up ;
- click the "Disconnect" button outside the popup instead of the "Exit" or "Back" buttons of the popup ;
This acts just like a hacking disconnect except it does not use an attempt.

I used it more than once in the walkthrough I'm making, to get a good hack video each time.


As for this question:

Say a 1-rating node requires 3 seconds for the security process to Capture, while a 2 requires 6 seconds to Capture (made-up numbers here). 2 seconds into the security process Capturing a 1 node, your Fortify finishes making it a 2. Does the opposition keep its 2/3 progress, requiring only 2 more seconds to complete? (1/3 of 6) Or does the requirement change to 6 full seconds to Capture the node, so an additional 4 will need to be spent after the 2 spent so far?
I believe the firewall keeps its advance, I just checked in some of my videos it seems to be that way (youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBS3nNRgDEQ&t=9m55s))

Prozac
15th Apr 2012, 00:59
Hi everyone. Well I'm the resident noob here and I just wanted to say that I'm thinking of tossing Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I've played just enough of the game to know that it's probably fun, perhaps even a great game but, because of all the locks etc. to be hacked...well that part is just no fun to me.

I just make it to the part where I find the hostages and have to go on the mission to find the dudes wife "Josie" and my quest marker leads me to a locked door where I have to play the minigame. :eek: Well tbh I don't play fps games for their minigames, I play them because I love to SHOOT stuff. LOL But it's true.

I wonder if there is a workaround for theses stupid hacks or an easier way to do it, if not I'm prolly through with DX.

Any feedback before I throw in the towel? :mad2:

Thanks, Prozac :) Sorry for the rant, I'm just frustrated.

SDF121
15th Apr 2012, 01:36
Hacking is only required in a few instances of the game and in these instances the computer has a low security rating of 1. In other words, the few times that you are forced to hack in the game are quite easy and only take a matter of seconds. If you buy the Explosive Mission Pack DLC for Deus Ex:Human Revolution, you will have an automatic unlocking device at your disposal.

On a side note, you may want to get into the habit of hacking everything anyways as you will earn more XP for Praxis kits.

nomotog
15th Apr 2012, 01:41
Most hacks can be worked around, but you will be forced into a few. If you don't want to hack the lock, you can find the password, guess the password, blow up the door, shoot the door, find another door, or find a vent. Things really open up after the first level. Just gut through that and it gets better.

Prozac
20th Sep 2013, 00:20
Ok, I purchased both the Explosive and Tactical DLC yesterday from Steam, mainly for the Autohack tool. So I'm still at the beginning of the game, and I come across my first hack, the one next to the door, and I go to hack it and I get no Autohack. Then I figured, that part of the DLC must be tucked away somewhere in the user console.....but I don't know where...lol. Can someone tell me where the tool is? A message did show up right after the theme song plays saying: Thank you for playing: You now have the Explosive and Tactical DLC. So I thought I was good to go. But I have no Autohack tool......so I can't Autohack. Any advice?

CyberP
20th Sep 2013, 01:15
See, it was a waste of time catering to these people with all the dumbing down and hand holding. Eidos should have made a proper Deus Ex game.

PC tards :lol:

Just kidding :P

@Prozac: You need at least one AUD in your inventory, then aim at the electronic lock and a button prompt appears. Press the button displayed.

The first set of AUD's are given to you at the start of the mission you are currently on.

Also, the game isn't a straight FPS, think of it as the Sci-fi version of Skyrim but better. Stick with the game, it's worth it.

Prozac
20th Sep 2013, 01:22
Thanks Cyber. :)