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deusexhr
25th Aug 2011, 13:08
Hey guys i just need to know if killing the guys in the prolouge when you are not augmented count towards this achievement? Because i killed people in that part but haven't killed anyone since but if they do count toward this achievement i do not need to carry on being non lethal.

tZer
25th Aug 2011, 13:42
Yes,

deusexhr
25th Aug 2011, 13:55
you 100% sure mate?

imported_metal_dawn
25th Aug 2011, 16:54
you 100% sure mate?

I'd like clarity on this too. I mean, the tutorial instructs you in shooting mechanics and instructs you to kill people. I've ghosted/not killed anyone for the entire rest of the game so far and I'd hate for all the hard work to be for naught.

I'll be pretty dissapointed if i reach the end of the game and these achievements don't pop.

Tvayumat
25th Aug 2011, 16:58
I've heard that the prologue kills count against you, and if this is true I am legitimately disappointed.

Why does the game exempt boss fights and NOT these guys? The whole point of the prologue is that you are the security officer protecting the labs you are paid to protect, so why the heck would you sneak around and evade the attackers you are supposed to be repelling?

Basically, the only way to get the pacifist achievement is to break immersion by hiding from the men you should be engaging for the safety of your co-workers and employer.

You know, it's sort of an unspoken rule in vidya games that actions taken during a tutorial (the prologue) shouldn't be penalized. They should at least have given us a heads up.

EDIT: Or how about giving us some method of non-lethal takedown in the prologue? All you get is an assault rifle, with no chance to get a stun gun or anything!

Taupe
25th Aug 2011, 22:37
I totally agree with this idea. You can't put the chief of security against a bunch of attackers, have him witness the gruesome murders and slaughtering of his fellow employees, give him an assault rifle and a combat tutorial, yet expect him to just ''avoid the guys because they are just ''poor generic guards''

The bosses can't be skipped or knocked out peacefully because doing so would break the flow of the narration and can't really be justified, and i think the same applies to the mercenaries assaulting Sarif in the prologue. This scene is fast paced, action-packed, and meant to shoot us into the story head first, and that's why it isnt encumbered with special moves, or an inventory. But if i have no access to non-lethal strategies in a prologue that's meant to be played as a shoting scene, then i don't think the semi-required murder of 5 generic bad guys should count toward a pacifist's run progression.

Edje
26th Aug 2011, 07:31
I just finished my first "non-lethal" playthrough and yet I missed the achievement. The only two things I could believe that went against me were the prologue and possible lethal force due to an explosion of a bot.

In regards to the prologue, while you may have not have a non-lethal weapon, you can most definitely make it through without killing anyone in the prologue with a bit of patience and timing.

Jordasm
26th Aug 2011, 08:15
Please tell me the prologue thing is fake. I've been through like roughly 3/4 of the game not killing anyone. Haven't destroyed any robots either, just deactivated them or slipped past them. I did however, kill EVERY guard in the prologue...

Thrilhouse
26th Aug 2011, 09:04
I hope they patch a change. It's kind of ridiculous that they're holding that against us. I just got through a 31 hour non-lethal playthrough (lots of exploration... and I'm slow), only to find out I'm not getting that achievement?

At that point, we hadn't even been given the choice of a lethal or non-lethal starter weapon. Logically that would be the best point to start holding kills against you. That's what I assumed it was, anyway.

WarBaby2
26th Aug 2011, 10:35
Well, achievements (especially the really hard ones) requiere you to play a game in a way that was not originally intended. So playing the tutorial nonlethal fits, even though it makes no sense story wise.

A well, just a one more reason for another playthough.^^

ceeweex3
26th Aug 2011, 10:37
i went through the prologue without killing anyone. i was never seen either.

Thrilhouse
26th Aug 2011, 19:38
Well, achievements (especially the really hard ones) requiere you to play a game in a way that was not originally intended. So playing the tutorial nonlethal fits, even though it makes no sense story wise.

A well, just a one more reason for another playthough.^^

True, but it seems to unnecessary punish those new to the Deus Ex play-style. And yes, it does make absolutely no sense to do- by logic or tactics. It goes against all urgency you're supposed to feel during the prologue.

And if I do another play through... I'd rather it be a lethal run instead of doing it all over again to get that one achievement.

I'm not a major achievement hunter; I just thought that play-style would be fun and different from any other fps game I've ever played. It just sucks to not be awarded something I thought I was going to get.

Brockxz
26th Aug 2011, 19:45
The worst thing about prologue is that not only you can't kill anyone (and not killing really doesn't make sense at that time because they are killing scientists and you supposed to protect them) if you want pacifist achievement but also by sneaking around you pretty much start game with 0 xp points compare to 180 xp points you can have if you kill everyone with headshot.

alanschu
26th Aug 2011, 20:30
LOL. The game was pretty explicit in stating that the bosses don't count. So you decide to make an assumption that a part of the game shouldn't count against you because "It doesn't make sense" and get your panties in a bunch because the assumption you made was wrong.

For an achievement!

lockload
26th Aug 2011, 20:41
I looked at the achievement before i started and is definitely says kill none except for bosses, after this i searched on google and the consensus was you cant kill anyone in the prologue so to be safe i sneaked through fairly easily

dimljajvbu
26th Aug 2011, 20:52
Sigh.. I killed those guys too. Didn't think I had a choice.
Really needs a way to check your status for these long-term goals.

Sev
26th Aug 2011, 21:02
Sure, this may have prevented you over getting the pacifist achievement.

But it gets worse. I got screwed over by random kills of the tranquilizer rifle somewhere down the line. I didn't realize till the very end that this thing actually kills people sometimes, and I used it in plenty of spots through out the game.

GreyTemplar
26th Aug 2011, 21:05
Sigh.. I killed those guys too. Didn't think I had a choice.


It's Deus Ex, you always have a choice. I went about the tutorial without force. Then again, as far as I was concerned, I only wanted to get to Megan. :(

Argonanth
26th Aug 2011, 22:05
I'm assuming you cant complete the side quest where you have to kill chen (I think its chen) because you need to throw him off the roof which will always kill him... Kind of annoying that you cant do this one though v.v

lockload
26th Aug 2011, 22:10
I'm assuming you cant complete the side quest where you have to kill chen (I think its chen) because you need to throw him off the roof which will always kill him... Kind of annoying that you cant do this one though v.v

Usually in most games its not possible to get every achievement in one play through

Although it would be good if there was a stats page to help keep track of stuff like this

Absolutionis
26th Aug 2011, 22:22
I'm assuming you cant complete the side quest where you have to kill chen (I think its chen) because you need to throw him off the roof which will always kill him... Kind of annoying that you cant do this one though v.vThere is always a choice. Killing him is not the only choice.

Thrilhouse
26th Aug 2011, 22:29
Sure, this may have prevented you over getting the pacifist achievement.

But it gets worse. I got screwed over by random kills of the tranquilizer rifle somewhere down the line. I didn't realize till the very end that this thing actually kills people sometimes, and I used it in plenty of spots through out the game.

It kills? I had no idea... are you sure?


I'm assuming you cant complete the side quest where you have to kill chen (I think its chen) because you need to throw him off the roof which will always kill him... Kind of annoying that you cant do this one though v.v

I did that one non-lethal. There is another option to get him arrested.

The_Audiophile
27th Aug 2011, 01:00
The prologue is part of the game, and the achievement says the entire gamegame, it doesn't state an exception other than the bosses. If you didn't think about this it's a flaw in your logic, if the prologue didn't count it would state it in the achievement.

Thrilhouse
27th Aug 2011, 01:56
The prologue is part of the game, and the achievement says the entire gamegame, it doesn't state an exception other than the bosses. If you didn't think about this it's a flaw in your logic, if the prologue didn't count it would state it in the achievement.

Well, logic is subjective. It's just that my logic doesn't coincide with the developer's logic.

I still disagree. I think it's punishing to those new to the deus ex play-style. The purpose of a prologue is to introduce you to game mechanics and story, and ease you into them. It's like teaching a child; you wouldn't hand a child a toy and tell them not to play with it. That's what I think of when we're given a lethal weapon in game, with nothing else. Any other FPS, there wouldn't be an issue- and that's the mindset I came from.

So If I had been given both an automatic rifle and a stun gun, it would have been very simple to connect that the Pacifist achievement started.

It just seems counter-intuitive.

Sev
27th Aug 2011, 02:00
It kills? I had no idea... are you sure?

I don't know if it's a bug or a feature. But I heard reports from many people that it happens to them. Some say that at a certain close range it becomes lethal, others that it is random. I did notice it killing people in my game at the very end of the game. And most likely somewhere prior as well.

Test it yourself to see if it affects you. Might help us figure out if it's a bug or intentional.

Pharnham
25th Mar 2013, 17:22
Well, logic is subjective.

Uh, no, it's not.

Solid_1723
26th Mar 2013, 14:03
Uh, no, it's not.

necro much?