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View Full Version : Knockouts 1 battery too much



Evil Champ
24th Aug 2011, 20:36
I work hard to sneak up on an enemy and tap the Q button to knock them out. It takes a lot of patience and time.

Why does it drain an entire battery though? Couldn't they make non cloaked take downs cost like 85% of the battery so at least it recharges?

Sharkey1337
24th Aug 2011, 20:53
I wish melee knockouts would be 50%, while a kill would be a full battery. Honestly, the most crippling factor I have with the game is only your first battery recharges, not your extras. Really slows down the game and fun factor having to rely only on power bars to pull off some incredible moments.

Shralla
24th Aug 2011, 23:00
Ugh. It's called game balance. Just because you want to be the superbadass moving from enemy to enemy knocking them all out in static cutscenes while being invincible doesn't mean that it would in any way be good game design.

loudent
24th Aug 2011, 23:06
Ugh. It's called game balance. Just because you want to be the superbadass moving from enemy to enemy knocking them all out in static cutscenes while being invincible doesn't mean that it would in any way be good game design.

I'm not sure I agree. All it really does is make the extra battery augmentations among the least viable. The only thing, thus far, that I've ever used power for was take-downs. That may change down the line but It would be nice if I didn't have to spend most of the game with a single cell of power.

I would even be up for some limited regenration such as having to "plug in" somewhere that recharges all your dells (you apartment and office, power stations, switch boards etc etc) Or even a long delay before that second cell starts recharging (sometimes I go hours without using any power). At the very least you should be able to recharge to full at your house and at Sairf, possibly the limb clinics.

Rindill the Red
24th Aug 2011, 23:22
I feel that if I sneak up behind an enemy I should be able to silently take them down, either lethally or non-lethally. Not being able to do anything to an enemy besides shoot them, when you have snuck up right behind them is jarring and immersion breaking.

I agree that the player shouldn't be able to just run up to guy after guy for chained takedowns, but if you sneak up on the enemy, then that's a different matter, because that takes skill and time.

And I should be able to silently and lethally take out an enemy, as well as KO an enemy loudly.

Shralla
24th Aug 2011, 23:24
I'm not sure I agree. All it really does is make the extra battery augmentations among the least viable. The only thing, thus far, that I've ever used power for was take-downs. That may change down the line but It would be nice if I didn't have to spend most of the game with a single cell of power.

I would even be up for some limited regenration such as having to "plug in" somewhere that recharges all your dells (you apartment and office, power stations, switch boards etc etc) Or even a long delay before that second cell starts recharging (sometimes I go hours without using any power). At the very least you should be able to recharge to full at your house and at Sairf, possibly the limb clinics.

Or... you could use the AMPLE energy bars that they throw your direction if you really want to cutscene your way through the game. You're acting like there's no way to recharge your other batteries, but the game practically pisses cyberboost bars at you.

Mobius32
24th Aug 2011, 23:49
Or... you could use the AMPLE energy bars that they throw your direction if you really want to cutscene your way through the game. You're acting like there's no way to recharge your other batteries, but the game practically pisses cyberboost bars at you.

DX had the odd maitenance bot you could recharge from, despite the very common bioelectric cells

Shralla
24th Aug 2011, 23:56
That's true, but bioelectric energy didn't regenerate AT ALL in Deus Ex, so...

Mobius32
25th Aug 2011, 00:30
That's true, but bioelectric energy didn't regenerate AT ALL in Deus Ex, so...

Yes, but it also had melee weapons. Also, and it could be because I haven't fully upgraded the battery augs, it feels like you have less energy, or it drains faster, than DX

nathanj
25th Aug 2011, 03:52
please. its completely OP as it is. at this point i have a fully upgraded inventory full of ammo and im having to drop any that i find. if there are two enemies in hallway i either stun or tranq them and then use the takedown for the second one. if there is only one i dont have to use anythign but the takedown.....or at least i did. i just stopped using takedowns because i was swimming in ammo and frankly i dont like the view switch and after you see them for the 20th time they just get ho hum..........as most people predicted they would. i wish they didnt have the first bar recharge....that alone would be a tremendous improvement in gameplay.

TheYouthCounselor
25th Aug 2011, 04:02
I agree, but want no change because I used this fact to silence dozens of complainers in the past who whined that "instant takedowns make the game too easy and take away the spirit of Deus Ex."

In DX1 one baton hit from the back on trained level, was an instant knockout and one dragon tooth hit killed most people. Those didn't need any resources!

Kraiden
25th Aug 2011, 04:05
I actually think a better system would be to have the first battery charge normally, and any excess ones charge at half / 25% the rate of the first one.

That way, when you're just wandering around your batteries still recharge (just slower), but still gives the energy-restoring items purpose for when you need to boost your bar during a firefight / stealth section.

omgitsbees
25th Aug 2011, 04:14
I would have preferred it to be like health, where it recharges fully, but slowly. If you need energy right away, you have those bars you can eat, otherwise you need to sit tight and wait.

nathanj
25th Aug 2011, 04:31
there is absolutely no reason for it to recharge at all. im tossing protein bars left and right because i dont have room for them in my fully upgraded inventory. simply making the non recharge would be a big gameplay improvement. as someone else pointed out there is literally no difference between the takedowns in this game or the sword in deus ex. at the very least it should be disabled in deus ex mode.

Castagear
25th Aug 2011, 06:24
isnt there a Bonus when you sneak around every enemy? that would be great!

luminar
25th Aug 2011, 20:52
If I sneak up on someone and punch in the back of the skull I'll knock them out. I'm not augmented by the way. Adam's had training. Sneaking on someone and knocking them out should be as natural as walking for adam. IMO energy pips should be used for augs not for natural actions. Why don't we use energy for shooting someone?

Black-Xero
25th Aug 2011, 20:56
Ugh. It's called game balance. Just because you want to be the superbadass moving from enemy to enemy knocking them all out in static cutscenes while being invincible doesn't mean that it would in any way be good game design.

It would be a great game design. It doesn't make any sense at all for a simple takedown to waste a full battery...or any battery energy for that matter. It was a poor game design. Nothing too serious but still.

ReliantLion
25th Aug 2011, 21:01
I think what people are missing is that the game makes you choose on all the above mentioned issues. Even with the full inventory, you must makes sacrifices in what you carry if you want to pick up the energy bars. If the recharging is to slow for you, invest in the upgrades that boost recharge speed instead of getting the extra cells. I found the extra cells to be useful only 2 or 3 times throughout the entire game, and it was just because I was being lazy about finding a stealthier way in.

You don't need to tranquilize one guy then do a take down on the other. This is why they have the Reflex aug. Take them both down at the same time.

Dentrick
25th Aug 2011, 21:12
I agree with those that think the energy cost is too high. The cost and availability of ammo for the stun gun and P.E.P versus the cost of knocking someone out and consuming energy didn't seem equal. I ended up collecting garbage bags full of stun gun ammo and using that and never, ever bothering to knock someone out manually.

Glyph
25th Aug 2011, 21:54
One intersting idea that I read was to use the rechargeable battery first and then keep the extra ones in reserve. It would dramatically change how the recharge system works without having to overhaul much of anything. It would also make having additional 'reserve' batteries very useful as you could constantly combo them with the rechargable one and still regenerate them so long as they were not fully depleted.

Given how delicate this issue is for the overall balance of the game I think that this solution would keep all parties happy without making batteries spammable just by sitting idle for a long period of time.

Cronstintein
25th Aug 2011, 23:16
Either Kraiden's or Glyphs ideas would be an improvement. Or have takedowns only use 95% of the battery.

It just seems silly when I have full batteries and an opportunity to KO someone and I"m like, "Damn, I don't want to waste a battery, so I'll have to shoot him."

thanos
26th Aug 2011, 00:24
the problem is only ONE battery ever recharges,and i dont find enough items to keep the meter totaly full.

Evil Champ
26th Aug 2011, 00:35
A few things --

If we're talking about balance, then why do I have a plethora of ammo but one battery cell I'm constantly waiting to recharge? I go the stealth route, and having one battery is usually fine, but it hinders me from using my other abilities, like cloaking, for example.

But wait, there are power bars ....

Yes, I'm a super agent trained in espionage, stealth, and I constantly eat protein bars in enemy territory. I usually go through about a half dozen or more. /sarcasm.

Has anyone actually eaten a protein bar? They make you fart non stop!

A take down should only drain 85% of your battery, allowing it to refill. I don't understand how I can go from enemy to enemy and take them down -- I'm playing on hard, one, two shots and I'm DEAD. Not to mention, it typically takes SKILL & PATIENCE to sneak up on enemies, especially on hard.

In all honestly, I look at the skills I can acquire down the line and wonder if I'll ever use them? Will my inventory consists of power bars and not weapons, ammo, grenades and other cool as espionage ****?

If there were an update, this would be something I'd like to see change. It doesn't make sense that I can go Invisible for three seconds and have battery power left but I can't punch a guy out without losing an entire battery.

And just to be clear ... I'm not saying all batteries should recharge. I'm saying takedowns should cost 85% of battery so it can recharge. Everything else is fine the way it is.

Cronstintein
26th Aug 2011, 00:48
Little issues like this are why even a modest modding APL would be such a boon. This issue would have a plethora of mod-fixes out by the end of week 1, I'm sure.

Black-Xero
26th Aug 2011, 01:26
Little issues like this are why even a modest modding APL would be such a boon. This issue would have a plethora of mod-fixes out by the end of week 1, I'm sure.

But console players are not able to use mods which is a problem. Very tiny problem.

Kyle873
26th Aug 2011, 01:35
But console players are not able to use mods which is a problem. Very tiny problem.

Honestly, I'd say deal with it. Modding is one of the few things PC gamers have left, and even that is getting removed in games now because of console concepts like achievements. It's probably the same reason the PC users don't get a dev console like Deus Ex. It just makes me mad, I miss the old days where you could buy a PC game, play it for it's game time, then get an extra 100+ hours more out of it by just messing around with the dev console, config files and mods.

Evil Champ
26th Aug 2011, 02:22
Honestly, I'd say deal with it. Modding is one of the few things PC gamers have left, and even that is getting removed in games now because of console concepts like achievements. It's probably the same reason the PC users don't get a dev console like Deus Ex. It just makes me mad, I miss the old days where you could buy a PC game, play it for it's game time, then get an extra 100+ hours more out of it by just messing around with the dev console, config files and mods.

I own a super computer, PS3 and 360. I chose to get games like DEHR, Skyrim, BF3 on it because of the modding community. Also, just because there is a console version doesn't mean there shouldn't be mods.

Oblivion is a perfect example. As is just about any FPS on the market.

I was actually curious why I haven't seen any mods for this game yet. With the Witcher 2 mods for small stuff like this were coming out a week after release.

Is modding not allowed or blocked for DEHR? If it is, I had no idea.

Fireisprettyful
26th Aug 2011, 02:26
I actually think a better system would be to have the first battery charge normally, and any excess ones charge at half / 25% the rate of the first one.

That way, when you're just wandering around your batteries still recharge (just slower), but still gives the energy-restoring items purpose for when you need to boost your bar during a firefight / stealth section.
i like the idea of this but i would rather the other ones charge at 10% of the first one but apart from that for me its a great idea:)

Sev
26th Aug 2011, 03:13
I have issues with the energy system, but see this more as a problem the xp system personally. If it wasn't for the fact that a non lethal take-down is always the optimal choice, I probably wouldn't mind as much and just deal with the energy management.

But as it stands, I'm always stuck on one cell since I'm using mostly non lethal take-downs to maximize xp. I never can combine cloak or silent running with a take-down because of it and never get use out of any of my active augs. If I wasn't penalized for eliminating opposition in other ways but non-lethal take-downs, I'd use other tools at my disposal and likely have a lot easier time manging my energy. But as it is, I'm stuck hiding behind a box over and over again waiting for my battery to recharge since if I do anything else I'm losing xp.

If xp gain upon eliminating opposition was normalized I wouldn't have to do non-lethal take-downs all the time and I'd have the energy to use play around with my augs.

Cronstintein
26th Aug 2011, 03:47
Is modding not allowed or blocked for DEHR? If it is, I had no idea.

I don't know that it's actively blocked but they certainly haven't made it easy. Whereas Witcher2 has a CookedPC folder where you can pop in a mod file and the executable will incorporate it.

Kyle873
26th Aug 2011, 03:49
I don't know that it's actively blocked but they certainly haven't made it easy. Whereas Witcher2 has a CookedPC folder where you can pop in a mod file and the executable will incorporate it.

Remember, these are two different engines. The Witcher 2 used the Unreal Engine which is usually mod-friendly from the start unless the developers specifically lock that functionality out, such as Borderlands.

Cronstintein
26th Aug 2011, 04:04
While I appreciate that some things might be harder to do with a different engine; a simple config file to pull variables from is a pretty easy way to add in minor modifications at little to no cost to dev time. I mean that won't let you change A LOT, but it gives you slight customization options for your experience. And "KO energy cost" or "energy regen rate" are things that can be put in such a file.

Kyle873
26th Aug 2011, 04:18
While I appreciate that some things might be harder to do with a different engine; a simple config file to pull variables from is a pretty easy way to add in minor modifications at little to no cost to dev time. I mean that won't let you change A LOT, but it gives you slight customization options for your experience. And "KO energy cost" or "energy regen rate" are things that can be put in such a file.

I agree, but I'm honestly not holding my breath. Devs have been making me lose faith in where PC games are going in terms of modding and tweaking lately.