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Serendip1ty
11th Aug 2011, 19:50
In preparation for HR giantbomb did a quicklook on Deus Ex:

http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-throwback-deus-ex/17-4676/

Mind you, as all of us know DX inside & out this can be rather painful to watch but on the other hand i find it fascinating at the same time.

Some people dont like critisism on DX _at all_ but this video clearly illustrates some very big issues & design choises Eidos Montreal had to tackle in hope to get ALOT more people onboard considering the millions of dollars they pumped into this game.

You can tell Brad (the guy who never finished the first level) realises now what he missed out 10 years ago.

Brockxz
11th Aug 2011, 20:53
I actually don 't see any big issues & design choise mistakes here. The only problem with Liberty Island part was that people didn't played tutorial part first and didn't want to read descriptions of what is what and how system works. Tutorial had weapon part and the first thing you learn is accuracy and the differences of shooting standing, crouching, how skill affects it etc and here in this video we saw typical gamer who skips every dialogue, every help/tutorial etc and after that they wonder why they die a lot/ why it is so hard.

Even i laughed through out the video (as I always do watching giantbomb videos) it was really painful to see how he could not see break room, how they did same mistakes over on over. There was one big problem, they played game without thinking and a lot of people did the same way 10 years ago and that's why they couldn't get past the first level and thought that game has design issues etc.

Serendip1ty
11th Aug 2011, 21:24
It just makes me wonder how many people got turned off by the first level who actually bought the game or just played the demo. I think this should not be underestimated.
I remember reading this before that the first level was a hit-or-miss (I think it even was Harvey Smith who mentioned it somewhere) although I never took much thought of it at that time.

Yeah the break room was funny, the view being blocked by the open door.

Graeme
11th Aug 2011, 21:49
This is hard to watch. People seemed to enjoy it...but geez...finds Anna and Gunther in the breakroom and misses out on the classic dialogue between them. And then skips through the conversations he initiates anyway.

iloveyouXWORLD
11th Aug 2011, 21:58
This is hard to watch. People seemed to enjoy it...but geez...finds Anna and Gunther in the breakroom and misses out on the classic dialogue between them. And then skips through the conversations he initiates anyway.

yeah well **** em. they dont know what they are missing. i dont know why we/i want to share dx with the world anyway. it can be our big secret. the gamers of today dont deserve it anyhow.

Serendip1ty
11th Aug 2011, 22:06
This is hard to watch. People seemed to enjoy it...but geez...finds Anna and Gunther in the breakroom and misses out on the classic dialogue between them. And then skips through the conversations he initiates anyway.

Yeah quite an eye opener.

deusfox
11th Aug 2011, 22:36
Enjoyed watching it and yeh absolutely an eye opener, so much can be taken away from it. Firstly one thing I'd say about video playthrough's in general is that the person filming/playing them will always play quicker and more likely to miss stuff then if they were on their own playing for no one's benefit for their own, they're instantly distracted to a degree from the game by having to provide commentary for the audience, and obviously someone's experience of a game like Deus Ex will suffer as a result, and so much stuff will be missed, as this video shows.

But he didn't do anything wrong (the only dialogue he skipped himself was the last bit). If the mission can be completed by a more direct path like the one taken there, then that's a feasible option. Having played it X amount of times, we know there's a bunch of cool stuff and dialogue he's missed, but for a first playthrough I'd argue he hasn't done anything wrong.

And it's this exact example of a playthrough which would've steered so many of Eidos Montreal's decision in HR, like making the beginning more linear, easing any player into the game. Seriously, watch the whole video. It explains so many of EM's design and gameplay decisions. A tutorial level will be skipped by alot of people, but a level which act's as tutorial and story set up arms every player with most of the things they'll need to know for the rest of the game.

It's frustrating seeing someone miss such cool stuff from the level. But rather then think '**** em then, his loss' I want to take that person through the level again, I want to show them all the amazing things this game could do, show them the other routes and let him decide what path to take. I want him to get Deus Ex.
I get the impression Human Revolution will be alot better at taking the average player aside, showing them what a game like this can really be capable of, and as a result we'll see alot less people falling at the first hurdle.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
12th Aug 2011, 01:13
A big LOL at 2 things...

1. First two minutes is a map I made with ChineseDemocracy, it's showing the start area he made.

2. How "expert" can you be at Deus Ex, if you do not know how to disconnect from multiplayer games.

CoDEllite
12th Aug 2011, 01:29
yeah well **** em. they dont know what they are missing. i dont know why we/i want to share dx with the world anyway. it can be our big secret. the gamers of today dont deserve it anyhow.

At least "gamers of today" have Human Revolution. And thats all this gamer needs.

1134
12th Aug 2011, 01:50
I've played it enough to not need to watch someone else play it.

Serendip1ty
12th Aug 2011, 02:14
Shadowrunner;1647180']A big LOL at 2 things...

1. First two minutes is a map I made with ChineseDemocracy, it's showing the start area he made.

2. How "expert" can you be at Deus Ex, if you do not know how to disconnect from multiplayer games.

Of course the "Deus Ex expert" description is a joke, I thought it was quite obvious.

Random
12th Aug 2011, 02:43
You'd think they'd get basic facts right, though. Like what year it was released. Deus Ex came out in 2000, not 'March 2001'.

thanos
12th Aug 2011, 03:18
I would play this,if I could find it.

Brockxz
12th Aug 2011, 03:24
I would play this,if I could find it.

Here I found for you because you clearly didn't had developed primitive google search skills: http://store.steampowered.com/app/6910/

thanos
12th Aug 2011, 03:27
Thanks,and no,i`m just lazy is all,besides i`m also a cheapskate.

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 03:34
At least "gamers of today" have Human Revolution. And thats all this gamer needs.

what? its all you need huh? we shall see about that. Human revolution should finally inspire you to play dx1. if you dont like dx1 from what youve seen in youtube vids, why are you here? why would you like DXHR if you dont like the first? whats your real motive for being here? seriously. to troll? or you a spy? or a troll bot? (is there such thing as a troll bot?) nah im being a douche enjoy the game! play dx1 if you want the greatest home entertainment experience. i like cod alot but its so much better than cod! better than anything atm.

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 03:42
Thanks,and no,i`m just lazy is all,besides i`m also a cheapskate.

bah cant cough up a fiver for such a masterpiece! :mad2:

thanos
12th Aug 2011, 03:46
Nope, as I said i`m too lazy and cheap,I will how ever offer you cold zero: the last stand,bit of an oxymoron really, consideirng its the first and last cold zero,i`ve ever found much less heard of.

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 03:53
Nope, as I said i`m too lazy and cheap,I will how ever offer you cold zero: the last stand,bit of an oxymoron really, consideirng its the first and last cold zero,i`ve ever found much less heard of.

i wont accept lazy as an excuse. you signed up to these forums did you not? all you need to do is sign up to steam. its pretty quick. and cheap? £5 or however much it is now is cheap. oh well like they say, you cant teach an old dog new tricks. :rasp: i dont understand why im trying to convince people once again anyway. its the dx effect.

thanos
12th Aug 2011, 04:02
Cant buy something if you have no cash to spend now can you my fine feathered friend ?

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 04:11
Cant buy something if you have no cash to spend now can you my fine feathered friend ?

Doom befall you for not playing DX1!!!

thanos
12th Aug 2011, 04:13
Dude...thats just wrong, go steal somebody else's sig,but dont still mine even if it is to mock me,really uncool.

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 04:30
Dude...thats just wrong, go steal somebody else's sig,but dont still mine even if it is to mock me,really uncool.

LOL! steal your sig? i havent stolen it, i just borrowed it to curse you. now what you gonna do bout it? :lol:

nutcrackr
12th Aug 2011, 06:18
Pretty embarrassing on two fronts, firstly the fact that very few of them know what they are talking about in regards to the game "was that guy on your side?". Secondly the fact that they didn't even play it beforehand to get the controls and settings before actually doing a play through. Quick looks on GB can be funny but they haven't done justice to the game.

Brockxz
12th Aug 2011, 06:25
@nutcracker if you look at videos they make you will see that they always try to make them funny on purpose but watching this video I start to imagine all those people who said that first level is hard because now i realized that they were playing exactly the same way GB did in this video. Skipping cutscenes, skipping tutorial, trying to rush through level, not reading mission objectives, skill descriptions etc. It was just eye opener for me because now I realized how stupid and impatient the average gamer is and why Eidos Montreal try to appeal to that average gamer stupidity by simplifying things and making DX more shooter friendly.

ocstew
12th Aug 2011, 08:50
That's me! When I first got this game a year ago I went directly into the first mission and rage quit when I found how tedious it was. I played the game a year later after finishing the tutorial and got up to that battery park level and quit after finishing it.

SladeTeck
12th Aug 2011, 08:54
That's me! When I first got this game a year ago I went directly into the first mission and rage quit when I found how tedious it was. I played the game a year later after finishing the tutorial and got up to that battery park level and quit after finishing it.

Really? Wow...I'm going to drink now and woe befall those who stop me. Might cry some too, I am quite sullen over this statement. :(

CoDEllite
12th Aug 2011, 12:14
now I realized how stupid and impatient the average gamer is and why Eidos Montreal try to appeal to that average gamer stupidity by simplifying things and making DX more shooter friendly. Game tutorials are the stupidest thing ever if a games controls arent instantly obvious from a minute of trial and error by messing around with my controller then its a badlymade game Im sorry. And also maby some peeps just dont have time to wait through badlyacted cheesy dialogue (thats right I actualy watched this video) and just get tot the actual gameplay. I played a ton of games and know that most story twists are predictable from a mile away so Im not gonna waste time watching another cutscene. I suspect GiantBomb guys are prob the same way God knows they play hundreds of games

Solid_1723
12th Aug 2011, 12:20
Game tutorials are the stupidest thing ever if a games controls arent instantly obvious from a minute of trial and error by messing around with my controller then its a badlymade game Im sorry. And also maby some peeps just dont have time to wait through badlyacted cheesy dialogue (thats right I actualy watched this video) and just get tot the actual gameplay. I played a ton of games and know that most story twists are predictable from a mile away so Im not gonna waste time watching another cutscene. I suspect GiantBomb guys are prob the same way God knows they plays hundreds of games

I feel sorry for you.

Brockxz
12th Aug 2011, 12:29
Game tutorials are the stupidest thing ever if a games controls arent instantly obvious from a minute of trial and error by messing around with my controller then its a badlymade game Im sorry. And also maby some peeps just dont have time to wait through badlyacted cheesy dialogue (thats right I actualy watched this video) and just get tot the actual gameplay. I played a ton of games and know that most story twists are predictable from a mile away so Im not gonna waste time watching another cutscene. I suspect GiantBomb guys are prob the same way God knows they play hundreds of games

Your intelligence once again shine upon these forums. Please, go play CoD multiplayer and get one more prestige level. At least you won't need to worry about your plot twist turn because you will already know what you get at every rank up.

Ulysses
12th Aug 2011, 12:39
Impatience with a game is something I don't get. Pretty much what killed off a lot of my favourite games in the market, heh.

iloveyouXWORLD
12th Aug 2011, 14:28
It was just eye opener for me because now I realized how stupid and impatient the average gamer is and why Eidos Montreal try to appeal to that average gamer stupidity by simplifying things and making DX more shooter friendly.

and thats why eidos montreal should have added a Fallout: new vegas type hardcore mode for us fans. :mad2:

CoDEllite
13th Aug 2011, 02:17
and thats why eidos montreal should have added a Fallout: new vegas type hardcore mode for us fans. :mad2:

At least u have "Deus Ex" difficulty dude

[FGS]ChineseDemocracy
13th Aug 2011, 19:08
Need to give the single player another playthrough, it's been a few years now. :whistle:

thanos
14th Aug 2011, 00:07
I almost picked up a copy of sorts of it .