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View Full Version : How big is Panau in comparison to Liberty City and the real world?



PylinJ
28th Jul 2011, 15:07
Hi just ordered the game and wondering how big this amazing world is!

Driber
28th Jul 2011, 17:13
BIG

Frag Maniac
29th Jul 2011, 06:38
Panau CIty alone (capitol of Panau) if you add all it's separate island districts easily rivals the size of Liberty City

The Nation of Panau is WAY bigger than Liberty City, roughly 40 times bigger.

Panau nation = 400 sq mi
Liberty City = 10 sq mi

Liberty City is only about 75% the size of the GTA San Andreas map.

To put it another way, you can travel to any part of Liberty City pretty quickly, a bit slower if using a boat. On the island nation of Panau, if you don't plan how you navigate well, especially early on when there's not many extraction points unlocked, you'll be spending quite some time getting to distant and/or remote locations. Sometimes several minutes if you don't plan well for it.

The largest map game I've played with procedural rendering (no levels to load) is Fuel, which is 5560 sq mi. Fuel doesn't have nearly as good graphics as JC2 though, and for a game that really NEEDS a good GPS to navigate with, the one it has is erratic, misleading, and at times can get you lost in the middle of a race. The gameplay isn't all that good either.

Fortunately JC2 has a clever PDA map where you can mouse click on any mission and read it's details before planning which ones to do in which order. This helps because you can use this information to do your missions in such a way that you use available vehicles at the mission locations to get to your next mission. For instance you can grab an aircraft after completing a mission at a military airport base, then use it to fly to a mission that's remotely located or has no extraction points near it. Just be careful to destroy any SAMs on base before going airborne.

Congrats for joining the JC2 realm. I'm sure you'll love the expanse and beauty of it. ;)

Janmanni
29th Jul 2011, 09:18
The world of Just Cause 2 is huge.
Compared to the real world (Earth) it is small. Earth is 510 072 000 km² and Just Cause 2 is ≈ 1074 km² (≈ 0,0002%).
Both have significant amount of water area in those numbers.

But there is a catch. GPS coordinates for X and Y won't go beyond 32km 768m, but I don't know how far you can actually go before you hit the wall in Just Cause 2. Maybe it is limitless world.

ChiroVette
30th Jul 2011, 02:34
There is no doubt that Panau is much larger than any of those game worlds, but I think that whoever made that map comparison is dead wrong about Paradise City. There is simply NO WAY that Paradise City is that large compared to Oblivion and particularly San Andreas. The map may be listed as 200 square kilometers, but as someone who has spent an unbelievable amount of time in both Panau AND Paradise City, I can tell you that Panau is a lot more than twice the size of Paradise. I can drive from one end of Paradise to the other in a few minutes, even the fastest plane navigating one corner of Panau to the other is insanely long, forget about using even the hovercraft.

The only other possibility that MIGHT make sense is if the PCPD (let's say) or one of the other really fast cars in Paradise is actually a lot faster than the planes in Panau. Other than that, I would have to say that Criterion's measurements for mileage would have to be way off. Because anecdotally, I don't think that Paradise City is even that much larger than San Andreas.

mahalomenehune
30th Jul 2011, 04:58
I too was hesitant at first to agree with the map posted. The only other games i know on it are gta 3 and gta san andreas. I looked at the map, and it seemed like gta 3 was roughly the same size as Panau airport. Uh nooooooo. Gta 3 is way bigger. But on further review, the gta 3 square looks like it's about the same size as the "mysterious" island in the northwest corner. That really makes sense to me now that I think about it. I have read from reputable gta sites that san andreas was 5 times larger than gta 3, and that's what it seems like on the map posted. Unless that gta 3 square is 1/4 of the san andreas map.

ChiroVette
30th Jul 2011, 05:22
Yeah I hear you. Also, I am not disputing the relative sizes of the GTA maps compared to Panau. Obviously Panau is MASSIVE compared even to San Andreas. What I was disputing was the size of Paradise City relative BOTH to Panau and to the GTA maps. There is simply no way that Paradise City is that many times larger than the GTA maps as well as about half the size of Panau.

Frag Maniac
30th Jul 2011, 19:45
No way Paradise City is 200 sq mi. Much of the problem with the game is besides being too easy, it's too repetitive. Well before it ends you realize you're driving through the same places over and over.

cazzer
31st Jul 2011, 11:15
No way Paradise City is 200 sq mi. Much of the problem with the game is besides being too easy, it's too repetitive. Well before it ends you realize you're driving through the same places over and over.

Because you go so fast it doesn't take long at all. :p

I'm still wondering how big JC1 is i can't be bothered to fish the box out at the moment. It seemed to take me longer to get across the map on JC1.

rinmach
31st Jul 2011, 15:41
BIG

-map-

I think this map should be taken with a grain of salt. WoW's world, for example, although arguably smaller than JC2's, is many times more dense and there is much more to do in that game.

Driber
31st Jul 2011, 16:12
I think this map should be taken with a grain of salt. WoW's world, for example, although arguably smaller than JC2's, is many times more dense and there is much more to do in that game.

The OP's question was how big it is compared to the real world, not how rich the content is compared to other games.

But I understand your point :)

Frag Maniac
31st Jul 2011, 18:54
Because you go so fast it doesn't take long at all. :p

I'm still wondering how big JC1 is i can't be bothered to fish the box out at the moment. It seemed to take me longer to get across the map on JC1.LOL, I knew someone was gonna say that. Seriously though, despite some of the cars being fast enough to create a blur, it still feels small and repetitious even when you're just driving around to find things you haven't smashed through or doing takedown events.

As mentioned it's also too easy. Here's an example of how ridiculously easy the game is. I made this vid to prove that the AI are just too slow. It's the Catch My Drift race. I had time to take a long Sunday drive through the quarry and still beat them.

lH8JfesEiIM

Burnout Paradise had the potential to be a great game if they had just added some Elite events for the Elite license vs ending the game. Imagine doing a race on a route like this in a special "Chain Boost" event where all the AI are linking boosts together continuously. All the better if they mixed it up and had some races with stunt jumps along the way.

cazzer
31st Jul 2011, 20:10
True, true. When i occasionally fire up ol' Burnout Paradise i think although it does have good graphics and some 'interesting' car physics and that it doesn't catch me that much. I kinda like Burnout Paradise for going back and playing on at the moment.
Burnout 3 Takedown is a tad dated but i still love it!

ChiroVette
1st Aug 2011, 05:31
I disagree with you guys. Paradise is one of my favorite games in history, but NOT for the career mode, but online! Oh, I do agree that the AI racing opponents are easy, BUT keep in mind that this is just to get you through the career FAST so that you can unlock a ton of cars and go online.

At one point, when I was playing Paradise at my heyday, I was doing online ranked racing, and let me tell you, there is some STIFF competition. While Paradise was in its online prime it took me months before I was able to crack into the top 100 worldwide in ranked racing. Yeah, I can totally spank the AI opponents as you're meant to be able to do, but the game is really geared to be an online "freeburn" game. I wasted more hours in freeburn rooms doing crazy ass stunt runs , races, challenges, and you name it.

Anyone who judges Paradise by the single player mode is seriously missing out on the insanity and the awesomeness of the game. lol It's like getting pissed off at Call Of Duty: Black Ops because the storyline is short. :)

Frag Maniac
1st Aug 2011, 06:51
One could just as easily argue most race games that have both sp and mp have at least a robust enough sp to make the transition to mp less of a drastic jump. What's ironic is BP's menu method of going from sp to mp is pretty seamless, if only the gameplay was.

Honestly, it wouldn't have been that hard to just kick the sp up a notch by adding a slew of Elite events. Elite should have been the tier to have the 100+ events. The final tier in the game as is should have been an intermediate tier of about 70 or 80 events.

Face it, Criterion doesn't give a hoot about their customers, especially those on PC. They made lots of promises they didn't keep.

ChiroVette
1st Aug 2011, 13:57
Face it, Criterion doesn't give a hoot about their customers, especially those on PC. They made lots of promises they didn't keep.

Are you kidding me? Paradise has one of the most "robust," to use your words, SP experiences I have ever seen, beating out even games like Midnight Club! Stunt Runs are one of the most BRILLIANT concepts I have ever seen in racing, and I have played through that SP career many times, just because it is so much fun. The collectibles are a blast, the INSANE number of vehicles and their sheer variety, takedowns, a beautiful city to free roam in, awesome racing shortcuts, Road Rules, Showtimes, Marked Man, and on and on and on. As for devs not caring about their fans? lol You are saying that in the official forum of the mother of all developers who don't care about their customers, and I can give a laundry list of reasons why Avalanche forsook the entire community almost completely the second the game launched, but that would just be stating the painfully obvious.

Criterion is one of the single most GENEROUS developers in modern gaming. They released patch after patch after patch, fixing bugs, glitches, and issues over the course of YEARS not even months. They released FREE upgrades and improvements to the game in several iterations, including FREE motorcycles with an entirely new set of races, events, burning routes, and Road Rules. They didn't just release ONE absurdly anemic "patch" like some developers. Their DLC was nothing short of spectacular, with toy cars that were one of the most innovative vehicle packs in the DLC world, and Big Surf Island was (and still to this day is) absolutely fabulous. So unlike most devs, who abandon their games and the gamers the second the game releases, Criterion spent an unbelievable amount of time and energy tweaking the game post-release (MOSTLY for free!!) and spent almost two years improving, refining, and honing the game to add features and improve even the aspect of the game so many people loved.

Furthermore, you are dead wrong about Paradise and your strange contention that there are so many faults in the game (including your rather arbitrary desire for "elite events") because 99% of the gamers who played it NEVER ever even thought about some amorphous Elite events. So to postulate that some OBSCURE desire for some elitist events means they don't care is about the most fundamentally ludicrous argument I have ever heard.

Oh and before you interpret me expressing this all to you in cohesive form to mean I am angry and instead of addressing my points you say something like "Calm down, dude!" I want to stave that off by assuring you that while I am making a case for my point, I am perfectly calm and rational. But you are literally the very first person I have ever seen rail against Criterion for "not caring about their fans," and that is, no offense, but one of the most uninformed opinions about gaming I have ever seen articulated.

Driber
1st Aug 2011, 14:07
It wasn't too long ago that people here were saying the same about the devs of JC2.

I think it's just people parroting each other, really. As soon as someone spots something they don't like in a game and it's not instantly "solved" by the devs, they throw a "this company doesn't care about its customers" on internet forums because apparently that's the popular thing to do.

It's a shame :(

ChiroVette
1st Aug 2011, 14:43
I would absolutely agree with you, Driber, and one man's "caring dev" is another man's "fecklessly irresponsible dev," so a lot of this is down to personal opinion and what an individual consumer feels a developer has been doing regarding communication.

Not to bash anyone, but my perception has been that since JC2 was released, the developers have not really communicated with the community regarding serious issues that we all have had about the game. HOWEVER, I am sure that many people would disagree with me and would point to Mycoldman's participation in the forum as "proof" of that contention. So maybe there is no "right and wrong" in this discussion, only "satisfied and unsatisfied" customers.

cazzer
1st Aug 2011, 15:35
It wasn't too long ago that people here were saying the same about the devs of JC2.

I think it's just people parroting each other, really. As soon as someone spots something they don't like in a game and it's not instantly "solved" by the devs, they throw a "this company doesn't care about its customers" on internet forums because apparently that's the popular thing to do.

It's a shame :(

I prefer having a game with a few glitches than a game which is boring yet flawless. Actually having said that JC2 isn't too glitchy.
Exploiting glitches can also be fun!

Frag Maniac
1st Aug 2011, 19:21
OK, if you insist you're calm, whatever Chiro, but the fact that you foresaw me commenting on it makes it obvious you aren't. Calm people don't typically go off on a tirade using scads of caps and trying ever so desperately to sound profound with passive aggressive comments like "strange contention", twice mocking my opinion with "arbitrary" and "OBSCURE" (yeah, I can hear you dude) regarding my wishes for a better game.

It's as if you've spent zero time on the game's official forum, because my opinions are far from obscure. There were definitely others there, particularly on PC where the DLC was also promised but not delivered, whom felt the same. I could just as easily say your opinions are very fanboy biased, like most whom play the game on console are, and contradictory to your initial argument.

First you say the game is primarily made for mp, but defend what you call robust features in sp by talking of mere achievements that are more time consuming filler vs real challenge. That's stuff the average sp console player would rave about, not a serious online racer. I didn't even touch on how empty they left the bike portion of the sp. No AI to race with at all, and it's a shame, because it's one of the few games that actually gets bike handling right, even with KB.

I'm not going to take what was already OT and turn it into a pissing contest by responding in kind though, I have more dignity than that. Especially considering I wasn't nearly as hard on the game itself as you make it sound. In fact I said it had potential to be a great game. It just seems to have struck a nerve as if hearing my opinion about Criterion themselves was more than you could handle.

Suffice it to say we are in stark contrast in our opinions. It doesn't take much but a bit of checking to find I am not alone in mine though, including what you seem to be calling an insane request for Elite events. The fact that the player spends most of his time in the events achieving a license that has no associated events seems OK to you I guess.

So here we have a game designed for challenging mp gameplay, yet it's too much to expect to have a fair amount of challenging sp events. Geez, I must be mad, what was I thinking. I, a person whom bought a race game designed for challenging online play, is supposed to be fine with spending lots of the sp time wandering around crashing into things and merely grabbing a fast car to easily pass road rule times.

Some might call that arbitrary. For that matter, if you really respected what arbitrary means, you'd be OK with the fact that many things in BP are subject to one's opinion, vs trying to lambaste them for theirs being different from your's, then insisting you're calm after you've already displayed quite a bit of passive aggressive attitude. Kinda makes that "many people would disagree with me" comment after sound insincere.

See, I did all that with no caps, well, except where I quoted you. Just calm yourself and stop letting your angry thoughts go to your left pinky to hit that Caps key. Oh right, you are calm, there I go "postulating" again. :lol:

ChiroVette
1st Aug 2011, 22:20
OK, if you insist you're calm, whatever Chiro, but the fact that you foresaw me commenting on it makes it obvious you aren't.

Nope, it makes it obvious that I have a ton of experience on forums and know that whenever I make a long, well thought out, articulate post elucidating my opinions, sometimes using capitalization and strong language for emphasis, someone like yourself will accuse me of being angry or admonish me to calm down. Newsflash: Just because I have strong opinions should NOT (there is another caps word for emphasis...OOPS! lol) be confused with a heightened emotional state.


Calm people don't typically go off on a tirade using scads of caps and trying ever so desperately to sound profound with passive aggressive comments like "strange contention", twice mocking my opinion with "arbitrary" and "OBSCURE" (yeah, I can hear you dude) regarding my wishes for a better game.

You obviously DO NOT know the meaning of passive aggressive. Look it up. What you were accusing me of, from a technical standpoint (as inaccurate as that also is) would be actual aggression, NOT passive aggressive.


It's as if you've spent zero time on the game's official forum, because my opinions are far from obscure. There were definitely others there, particularly on PC where the DLC was also promised but not delivered, whom felt the same. I could just as easily say your opinions are very fanboy biased, like most whom play the game on console are, and contradictory to your initial argument.

I post there under another name, first off. Second, you are WAY OFF you original point. Yes, Criterion promised more DLC, BUT they gave us a ton of DLC not to mention patch after patch after patch. Criterion went out of their way to listen to their fans, adding motorcycles, day/night cycles, made changes to Stunt Runs, barrel roll mechanics, and a ton more things far too numerous to name. This renders your initial presumption that they don't care a mot point, because I have never seen a dev go that much out of their way. Again, though, DLC was not the point. The main point I was contesting was regarding how good the game was WITHOUT your your so-called Elite Events. Not everyone believes a game has to be ramped up in difficulty to be a great game, particularly one as LONG as Paradise. Some of us get our difficulty by going into freeburn rooms and blasting out over a BILLION points in Stunt runs (and yes, I have gotten that high without using speed boost cars, by the way) and by going into ranked races and working their way up the food chain. There is simply NO NEED to make the sp very difficult when the sheer amount of events and collectibles in sp was as "robust" as Paradise was, AND the online was so incredibly challenging.


First you say the game is primarily made for mp, but defend what you call robust features in sp by talking of mere achievements that are more time consuming filler vs real challenge.

No, I said that the sp was robust AND that the game was incredible for its multiplayer. In other words, BOTH are true in my opinion and are not mutually exclusive.


That's stuff the average sp console player would rave about, not a serious online racer. I didn't even touch on how empty they left the bike portion of the sp. No AI to race with at all, and it's a shame, because it's one of the few games that actually gets bike handling right, even with KB.

Fine, I would even grant that, but for one thing: Dude, the bikes were added to the game later as a FREE update. They added many hours of enjoyment even without all the things you may have wanted. Yeah, the bike portion felt empty, but it was free, and as you said, well implemented in terms of physics.


I'm not going to take what was already OT and turn it into a pissing contest by responding in kind though, I have more dignity than that. Especially considering I wasn't nearly as hard on the game itself as you make it sound. In fact I said it had potential to be a great game. It just seems to have struck a nerve as if hearing my opinion about Criterion themselves was more than you could handle.

That's just you reading way too much into me articulating my points with clarity and emphasis, not to mention using such horrible strong language as "strange contention." Dude, two words: Thicker skin! I did find your idea strange and expressed that. I hardly got in your face or flamed you.


Suffice it to say we are in stark contrast in our opinions. It doesn't take much but a bit of checking to find I am not alone in mine though, including what you seem to be calling an insane request for Elite events. The fact that the player spends most of his time in the events achieving a license that has no associated events seems OK to you I guess.

It is because the game was so long and awesome that, to be quite honest, it did not need "Elite Events" to make it better. I mean, not that it would matter anyway. I did so well in ranked racing that it would take one helluva "elite" set of AI drivers to make ne even break a sweat. Seriously, I have the game on PC and PS3, and if you ever want to go into a freeburn room with me, and no I mean no offense by this, I would gladly race you any of the 40 Paradise races either in ranked or freeburn mode.


So here we have a game designed for challenging mp gameplay, yet it's too much to expect to have a fair amount of challenging sp events. Geez, I must be mad, what was I thinking. I, a person whom bought a race game designed for challenging online play, is supposed to be fine with spending lots of the sp time wandering around crashing into things and merely grabbing a fast car to easily pass road rule times.

Why not? I mean seriously, why not? Why do some people judge a game harshly because it is made so the average person and "decent not great" gamer can unlock everything and pass everything? I personally find that refreshing, not bad. SO many devs act like you should have achieved a doctorate in videogameology to pass their game! lol


Some might call that arbitrary. For that matter, if you really respected what arbitrary means, you'd be OK with the fact that many things in BP are subject to one's opinion, vs trying to lambaste them for theirs being different from your's, then insisting you're calm after you've already displayed quite a bit of passive aggressive attitude. Kinda makes that "many people would disagree with me" comment after sound insincere.

Again, if you think I was lambasting you, I repeat: thicker skin! lol I never did. Disagreeing with you strongly is NOT the same as lambasting you.


See, I did all that with no caps, well, except where I quoted you. Just calm yourself and stop letting your angry thoughts go to your left pinky to hit that Caps key. Oh right, you are calm, there I go "postulating" again. :lol:

Again, like I said, I knew that you would accuse me of anger when none was present, nor is it in this post. If I was angry with you, here would be some signs.

1. Typing in all caps, NOT just a word here and there for specific emphasis.
2. Flaming you. Trust me, if there was any anger in either that post OR this one, my language would be a helluva lot stronger than terms like "strange contention." Honestly, if you think I was angry, or am now, you are a really sensitive guy.
3. Attacking you personally, which I never did. I stuck to the point of the topic, articulated my ideas, granted in an admittedly longwinded fashion, At no time did I become impolite nor did I respond to you without civility. Like I said, some people (perhaps you are one of them) are just very sensitive to what they perceive as angry, which is again why I made the point that I was not, because I knew you would assume emotion that was not there, which I was obviously correct about.

Edit: By the way, just to clarify my position, not only am I not nor was I ever angry at you, but I enjoy debating like this. This is the way that me and my friends talk to each other in real life. lol Maybe it's a Brooklyn thing. :rasp: We dig our heels in and DEBATE an issue strongly. There is honestly NO OFFENSE meant to you. I type out long responses and use caps for emphasis as well as using interesting ways of phrasing things because I find it fun, NOT because I am attacking you!

Driber
2nd Aug 2011, 06:51
Alright guys, this train is going way too much off track.

If anyone wants to continue the discussion about BP, use the ECC forum.

Back on topic (JC2 map size) now, please.

cazzer
2nd Aug 2011, 10:54
Alright guys, this train is going way too much off track.

If anyone wants to continue the discussion about BP, use the ECC forum.

Back on topic (JC2 map size) now, please.

I found out something interesting.

JC1 ~ 1025km^2 free roaming environment.
JC2 ~ 400miles^2 free roaming environment.

400miles^2 = 643.7 Kilometers^2.

So JC1 has a map almost twice as big? it doesn't feel as big i must say... but looking back on it, i think it's very much right? :confused:

ChiroVette
2nd Aug 2011, 13:12
I never played JC1. I would be amazed if it were actually a larger world than JC2, but I know nothing about the game at all. I assume it would be too much of a step backward, though?

@Frag Maniac, if you want to continue this conversation, you can PM or email me.

Janmanni
2nd Aug 2011, 15:59
I found out something interesting.

JC1 ~ 1025km^2 free roaming environment.
JC2 ~ 400miles^2 free roaming environment.

400miles^2 = 643.7 Miles.

So JC1 has a map almost twice as big? it doesn't feel as big i must say... but looking back on it, i think it's very much right? :confused:

I read from Wikipedia, that Just Cause 1 is 1012 km²; 391 sq mi.
It is about the same size as Just Cause 2 (1074 km² ≈ 415 mi²).

It is harder to see the size of Just Cause 1, because there are no coordinates in it. It was a great idea to add coordinates to Just Cause 2. Easier to make bonus missions, for example.

cazzer
2nd Aug 2011, 19:48
I read from Wikipedia, that Just Cause 1 is 1012 km²; 391 sq mi.
It is about the same size as Just Cause 2 (1074 km² ≈ 415 mi²).

It is harder to see the size of Just Cause 1, because there are no coordinates in it. It was a great idea to add coordinates to Just Cause 2. Easier to make bonus missions, for example.

Ahh i see i made a mistake in the conversion.
It's just if you play JC1 you will notice it does feel bigger, i don't know why i just think it does. :p

Frag Maniac
3rd Aug 2011, 05:35
mod edit: I said back on topic

ChiroVette
3rd Aug 2011, 15:12
Ahh i see i made a mistake in the conversion.
It's just if you play JC1 you will notice it does feel bigger, i don't know why i just think it does. :p

Is this game worth playing? I have never even considered picking up the original JC because I just assumed it was fsar less advanced than this one.

cazzer
3rd Aug 2011, 20:54
Is this game worth playing? I have never even considered picking up the original JC because I just assumed it was fsar less advanced than this one.

I consider picking it up on various points when i feel like it.

Reason uno: I love the Police and military variations that come after you, start a war, get jets on you etc..

Reason dos: Retro feel, still has fast cars and the explosion physics are more intelligent, as in put down 30 C4 and you will blow up 30 C4 instantly, as opposed to it going off one by one.

Reason tres: Still like cruising around in the jets they have, and i like doing side missions, which you can do even after you have completed the game.

Reason quatro: I love stealing rare military vehicles then storing them in a garage to then use again at any time.

But i do play JC2 more, because JC1 is so cheap now and if you don't mind going back a bit in time to an older game it's probably worth it buddy. I used to know pretty much everything there was to know about the game. :D

PylinJ
10th Aug 2011, 19:53
Thank You ALL! For you replys to my thread. My game arrived a couple of days ago and I am loving it. :)