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GrievousOdyssey
11th Jun 2011, 13:04
The current craze concerning how the Instinct mode dumbed down the franchise into a casual hand guided experience seems to be the new thing, a bit like how it was (and perhaps still) cool to hate on Kane & Lynch...

But for the moment, the way i see this Instinct mode is that it replaces the time loss when we had to repeatedly retry a level, or even just a portion of a level, to figure out the reason why everyone pulled their guns out on me was because i didn't had the magical VIP Pass required to access an area despite having the appropriate disguise, for example...

So instead of forcing us to repeat the trial and error process the game, as said by the developers, now allows us to understand the consequences of our actions beforehand, saving us the trouble of getting shot at for no reason and having to restart things all over again, just because one erratic NPC decided to mess up our plan...

Yet perhaps for us old fans, trial and error will always be more rewarding...
Is it ? ...

Nogarda
11th Jun 2011, 13:30
There are toggle options, but they are simply tools to aid in your 1st time through, or help in your ambush plans. it's like using the real time map and stalking them, but I'm viewing it as an ambush tool.

But when I am aiming for SA rank I will always and forever restart the mission because killing a non-target will screw it up. The only way you counter that is by being lax on the requirements, and if IOI do that, they will get hate mail from hardcore fans, fans always live by the 'it ain't broke don't you dare try and fix it' mantra.

New and innovative things in a well established franchise tend to upset fans until they get to play it.

Falkenwut
14th Jun 2011, 00:03
I think I have to agree with Gnr on this...

Erduk
15th Jun 2011, 18:18
I just got done playing through H:BM for the second time. I couldn't count how many times I hit restart...

I have every Hitman game in existence and I'm going to be honest... I'm a little bit worried about the interviews I've read. The words they're using have been used before.... Shortly before the series in question becomes a casual gaming, main stream, ---------> TARGET IS HERE! Crapfest for ten year olds.

If you're going to make Hitman, do it right. I don't want multiplayer, it's a waste of dev time and will only detract from the game. I don't want to have Jedi senses of where people are going to walk and when. I don't want to be allowed to shoot everyone and still feel good about myself at the end of the level. I don't want to be forced to have a shootout action scene at any point in time because contract killers don't do that.

I am interested in adding some cool gadgets and toys of the trade. More fun and original ways to stealthily subdue your targets using other peoples clothing. For instance, you're dressed up as a policeman and you arrest a guy for carrying a weapon you planted on him. Cool, stealthy, plenty of lethal and fun things to do to him afterwards. = Good.

EDIT: Ah crap, why am I even paying attention to this game? Square Enix is part of it. Since they added Enix to their name, they've killed a couple series for me. Way to go... now Hitman is going to die too. Damn. I am now 90% sure this game will suck.

Dimhenion
15th Jun 2011, 20:09
Personally I prefer Trial and Error. It makes it feel like I'm actually accomplishing something when I finally figure out the perfect way to get SA on a level, or even when I just get frustrated and go guns blazing, rather than basically being walked through the level. Dying/restarting is part of video games, just look at old school NES games, if you didn't win, sometimes you had to start from the beginning of the game, not just a level. People get their hands held too much in modern games, IMO.

123
16th Jun 2011, 17:05
New and innovative things in a well established franchise tend to upset fans until they get to play it.Basically the Fans will complain about anything and everything indiscriminately, no mater what.



I don't want to be allowed to shoot everyone and still feel good about myself at the end of the level.
And how are they suposed to pull this off? What is your definition of a good stealth game? A game with **** Gunplay? Hitman is the only stealth game I played that's has gotten worse when it came to shootouts. Thats why I was glade to see that they have improved that part of the game and was glade they showed the action, because now I know that that part of the game is not going to suck. I can guarantee they didn't want it to be like if the guns come hit the restart button.

Basically what Im trying to say is the shooting was never suposed to feel like **** but it did.


Dying/restarting is part of video games, just look at old school NES games, if you didn't win, sometimes you had to start from the beginning of the game, not just a level.You put Dying and that Restart button together, ofcorse you'll have to restart when you die. But abusing the restart is like cheating ofcorse if your trying to get silent assassin you'll have no choice but still.

Erduk
18th Jun 2011, 23:53
And how are they suposed to pull this off? What is your definition of a good stealth game? A game with **** Gunplay?

A stealth game is a game in which the mechanics nudge you in the direction of being stealthy instead of over the top action. From what the interviews have said and I quote, "We'd rather try to tempt the stealthy players to go into a more action -oriented direction." it seems to me this will not be a good stealth game.

I think the use of guns was fine in BM. It could be improved to feel more realistic... I'd rather them be working on the stealth aspect of things instead of an entire trailer of 47 beating up people disregarding all stealth. Then there are those disturbing quotes from the interviews. I think it's pretty obvious Square Enix intends to rob us of our money on it's first foray into the Hitman series.

Bevacur
22nd Jun 2011, 22:27
The very first level. For a noob like myself, that was simply too much. I failed to throw a coin and i got caught kneeling behind a man.

Also since i forgot i was holding the brief case, i just simply pulled out a sniper rifle in the middle of a crowd.

Oh and the times i end up pressing A on a locked door, that was annoying.

POP3D
22nd Jun 2011, 23:16
Actually, you don't always need to restart a level if you messed things up, unless the mission is failure or the target escapes when the guards get alert you still can kill them all and continue with your mission, it's just that generally you restart the level because you want to achieve something.

I still remember my first time playing Hitman: Silent Assassin on hard, at one mission i didn't know what to do, and i opened a room's door looking for something, expecting that there is only one guard in there to find four guards in the room, i switched from the Fiberwire to the silenced Beretta and put 4 bulets in their heads before they even recognize that i entered the room, there was no alarm and i could have went on with my mission, but instead i just pressed Esc and restarted the mission even though i was already half way in it and have passed lots of hell to get there (and on hard there is no save), because i wanted to get the Sillinet Assassin.

The Trial and Error thing is only in the missions that instantly becomes failure when you get spotted, and that was in few cases in Hitman games.

And one thing i love about Hitman is that it's one of those games that got a working difficulty switch, probably same thing will be in the next Hitman game, where probably on Hard the Instinct mode will not be available and you won't be able to see guards on the Minimap, throwing some achievements to those who assasinate only the target.

But other than that, yes, i restarted almsot every level of the Hitman games, more than one time, to kill only the target(s), and i must say, i enjoied every moment doing that. :)

BigBoss
23rd Jun 2011, 00:48
The very first time I play a level in any hitman game, I don't restart period.

PsychoNite
30th Jun 2011, 04:26
i personally restart missions dozens of times in a row because i am unhappy with how i have done, but im fine wit it because series like hitman and the 1st 4 splinter cell games have honed me into a perfectionist when it comes to how i approach a game and im happy with that.

BeardedHoplite
30th Jun 2011, 04:35
Personally, I rarely restart. I typically just go with whatever mess I made and try to ride it out without killing everyone.
Although I did have to kill everyone on the riverboat level, you know, too many witnesses.

123
30th Jun 2011, 08:07
Yeah on my first play though I don't restart but when you go back and play to get silent assassin you have to if you mess up. and thats just the thing it don't feel right if you mess up. you alway end up having to murder everything.

ZanNight
1st Jul 2011, 20:56
I'm half and half with this whole Instinct mode thing.

The beauty of really having fun while playing Hitman for me, was scoping out the building and the area first, the planning. A real Hitman doesn't get to mess up, restart, and then avoid the two guards walking down the corner next try.

What made the experience real in the way that I played, was sometimes having a plan perfectly executed, and other times making a mistake or just having some random event cause a complete meltdown of the situation, turning into an instant unexpected firefight. Improvisation made a level change through each play through.

Working inside of how the situation has changed, is what really made Hitman fun. Instinct mode can be useful perhaps if it's toned down a bit to not be a dead give away, but could also take away from the experience in the same way.

Plus, not having a safety "trial and error" restart makes getting a "Silent Assassin" all the more valuable.

Lionheat
7th Jul 2011, 01:34
Yet perhaps for us old fans, trial and error will always be more rewarding...
Is it ? ...

No, it is not. As games have become more "open world" compared to linear we need to expect more than just trial and error. I can understand game developers relying on trial and error 10 to 15 years ago - but not today.

For example, given a contract to execute a hit, we should be able to gather intel on the target and make a hit based on the targets behavior over time. If the guy walks his dog in the morning every day, gets a hair cut once a week on Friday afternoon, goes to the gym, has a party planed in a week...etc. We should be able to plan a hit using plan A, if it fails Plan B, if it fails plan C...we should not be force to do the hit based on what the programs deem acceptable. In a game like this, planning is part of the fun. We should even be able to do a dry run to make sure the plan is perfect. Trial and error is for blind squirrels.

Srosa
7th Jul 2011, 02:57
Restarted ALOT, here... (but always made it, after!).

Citizen_Snips
11th Jul 2011, 05:07
Loaded saves from each level like 20 times and restarted at least twice! I get more out of that two dollars every time I play. IMO instinct is just some big publisher's idea to appeal to noob console players, so they can run through the game as quickly as possible and then buy another game like Deus Ex.

Maximus Max
13th Jul 2011, 17:28
If you're going to make Hitman, do it right. I don't want multiplayer, it's a waste of dev time and will only detract from the game. I don't want to have Jedi senses of where people are going to walk and when. I don't want to be allowed to shoot everyone and still feel good about myself at the end of the level. I don't want to be forced to have a shootout action scene at any point in time because contract killers don't do that.

I am interested in adding some cool gadgets and toys of the trade. More fun and original ways to stealthily subdue your targets using other peoples clothing. For instance, you're dressed up as a policeman and you arrest a guy for carrying a weapon you planted on him. Cool, stealthy, plenty of lethal and fun things to do to him afterwards. = Good.

EDIT: Ah crap, why am I even paying attention to this game? Square Enix is part of it. Since they added Enix to their name, they've killed a couple series for me. Way to go... now Hitman is going to die too. Damn. I am now 90% sure this game will suck.

I'm trying to be positive and hopeful but ..
Your scaring me.
We gotta keep up hope.:hmm:

Oh yeah, I agree with some, but hey I'm open to something new, I'm gonna give Tomb Raider a whirl (first TR that I will rent before buying). I just still hope they stay true the core foundations of the Hitman series, there is nothing and never will be anything just like it and if it's **** then at least there is Skyrim. But I have a good feeling it will be great. Again. Positive.

Genetic Engineer
15th Jul 2011, 14:02
I personally loved the trial and error part of the game, trying different ways of getting to your target and finding the perfect way of doing the level.

Rindill the Red
21st Jul 2011, 06:00
Trial and error is a style of play chosen by the player. If the player doesn't like trial and error, then don't play that way.

2808
25th Jul 2011, 14:57
no i just carry on and kill that son'***** who found me out

German
28th Jul 2011, 04:31
I enjoy stealth , I've never once felt like reloading the game was a negative thing.
Hitman is my favorite game series.

I hope this purist mode lives up to 47's legacy