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Blackfire
7th Jun 2011, 17:43
I watched the demo on E3. There are two major things that stuck out to me.

One being that they kept the horrible quick time events

Two, the new "highlight" ability.
So basically, instead of solving any puzzles on our own, we get to be babied through the entire game.
This COMPLETELY ruins the purpose of tomb raider. I want to do everything on my own, without mom and pop holding my hand through it.

Speaking as a major tomb raider fan: YOU JUST CAN'T DO THAT! That is the worst idea these guys have ever had, right next to Tomb raider and the guardian of light


By the way, let me introduce myself to the community. I am Zach, this is my fourth forum, also a massive fan of the tomb raider series since I played the original classic tomb raider when I was around eight-years-old :P

dark7angel
7th Jun 2011, 17:57
Welcome to the forums, Zach!

About the "Survival Instinct" ability which highlights elements that are important to solve the puzzle, the key word here is OPTIONAL! We don't have to use this ability, we can solve the puzzle on our own! And for those who get stuck, this feature may help them!

As long as features like this stay optional, I don't have a problem with them...

Blackfire
7th Jun 2011, 18:01
Oh lord, that's a relief.
If I can get through the original tomb raider without a guide, I think I'll be able to get passed TR 9 with no highlighting :P

a_big_house
7th Jun 2011, 20:59
I think it will be a useful tool for later on in the game, but I doubt I will be using it much if this game gets as leaked as Underworld did lol

Ants_27_
7th Jun 2011, 21:09
Or instead, you could easily not watch any of the media they'll bring out, like me. I've seen the general feel for the game and that is enough for me to make my judgment... I just don't see the point of me buying it if I end up watching about 12 different trailers, alas Underworld.

Danielsun_
7th Jun 2011, 21:17
Or you could just not buy it :p...nah thats treason, you can't not buy it

it looks promising im hoping its going to have some innovative ideas too it and not so much copy and paste from say AC, UC, that line, my only peeve with it so far is the constant moaning and grunting i think that needs to be taking down a notch

Ants_27_
7th Jun 2011, 21:26
But what it has taken a lot from, or seemingly has done; least I get a vibe from is Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater.

Though, MGS 3 was my favorite PS2 game... ever and isn't a bad thing.

Abdullah10
7th Jun 2011, 21:33
Two, the new "highlight" ability.
So basically, instead of solving any puzzles on our own, we get to be babied through the entire game.
This COMPLETELY ruins the purpose of tomb raider. I want to do everything on my own, without mom and pop holding my hand through it.



agree:thumb:

IvanaKC
7th Jun 2011, 21:47
Or you could just not buy it :p...nah thats treason, you can't not buy it

it looks promising im hoping its going to have some innovative ideas too it and not so much copy and paste from say AC, UC, that line, my only peeve with it so far is the constant moaning and grunting i think that needs to be taking down a notch

That moaning is killing me too! And I'm serious, it's not treason if you don't buy this new Tomb Raider because, to me, it doesn't look promising at all.
I even think that Tomb Raider is not going to be so popular. So many new games are coming out at the same time (like AC) and they look much better. I hope this won't destroy our favorite series...

Danielsun_
7th Jun 2011, 21:54
Halo 4, Halo Anniversary, ME2, Battlefield 3, and TR if its good..im set for the next decade i think lol

IvanaKC
7th Jun 2011, 22:01
Halo 4, Halo Anniversary, ME2, Battlefield 3, and TR if its good..im set for the next decade i think lol

See, I can't even name it! And now if fans don't like trailer/gameplay, they'll just buy other game. I know I would no matter how loyal I am to the series.

What I wanted to say is that they have to show something good to impress me. I'm not satisfied with this gameplay.

dark7angel
7th Jun 2011, 22:07
See, I can't even name it! And now if fans don't like trailer/gameplay, they'll just buy other game. I know I would no matter how loyal I am to the series.

What I wanted to say is that they have to show something good to impress me. I'm not satisfied with this gameplay.

Keep in mind the gameplay we saw is still at pre-alpha stage (I read this somewhere!).

I think it looks good!!! It needs more work surely, specially in some animations but for something so early in development I think it looks great!!!! CD has over a year to polish what we saw! :thumb:

Denis..
7th Jun 2011, 22:40
i cant agree more with the op!

Gemma_Darkmoon_
8th Jun 2011, 02:19
I am not so against the highlight as long as it is optional. Helps those who are maybe newer to the series or what an easier game. I really HATE quick time events. They are a source of tons of cheap deaths and there are games where a final boss long QTE sequence stopped me finishing it. Just annoying.

In the trailer found it was more the camera angle and awful screaming all the time that I didn't like. At the moment I love the graphics and atmosphere with this game but am not liking so much the changes to Lara (especially her voice). I didn't like Underworld and am unsure about this one. however after how epic TR 1-3 and TRL were I would always buy any new TR game.

MissJess
8th Jun 2011, 02:29
It might not be the best, but so far I think it looks promising. I think it's important to remember that while you might not like the new TR, we always have 9 other Tomb Raider games with a special place in our hearts to play and re-play again and again, if the new one just doesn't cut it for you. :)

Blackfire
8th Jun 2011, 02:33
Tomb raider 2 will always remain my favorite :P

QiX
8th Jun 2011, 04:37
So basically: give us the option to disable icons and camera movements to hint on what to do next. It will be rated M, keep it hardcore. There will be no kids complaining anyway :cool:

PS3 Deb H
8th Jun 2011, 04:43
I am not so against the highlight as long as it is optional. Helps those who are maybe newer to the series or want an easier game.

And let's not forget people who are physically or mentally challenged! They are solid gamers too. Accessibility tools are important! I think that optional highlight is a huge step in a very good direction.

Deb

Elliot Kane
8th Jun 2011, 09:27
The 'survival instinct' mechanic looks more like the button in Adventure games that lets you see what objects you can interact with rather than a hand holder, to me. Or the loot spotter button in RPGs! :D

'Things of interest are highlighted' is merely a time short cut anyway, as wandering Lara close enough will surely throw up an interact icon. I see no indication it will tell you how to combine items or solve puzzles.

Sorry guys & gals, but I don't see a lot to worry about, here, especially as the use of the button is purely optional.

Cheeky_Charlie
8th Jun 2011, 09:54
Like many others here, if it´s optional I don´t have a problem with the highlightning. But to the sound of Lara I must say I like it. You should remember that she´s 21 in this game, a rookie. Laras very green when it comes to being beaten, hurt and fighting for your life against foes who wanna kill her. So thats where I think Laras voice and mouning and so on suits to the average feel just perfectly. And besides, she got a wooden stick in her abdomen and she still is fighting... respect!

IvanaKC
8th Jun 2011, 14:28
It might not be the best, but so far I think it looks promising. I think it's important to remember that while you might not like the new TR, we always have 9 other Tomb Raider games with a special place in our hearts to play and re-play again and again, if the new one just doesn't cut it for you. :)

And that thought keeps me alive every day because since I saw the gameplay, I can't stop crying.

I still don't agree with Lara's voice. Don't you think they shoud have pick someone with more mature voice? Being 21 years old doesn't mean your voice can't sound like you're 40. Woman's voice does not mutate so drastically through the years!

dark7angel
8th Jun 2011, 14:53
And that thought keeps me alive every day because since I saw the gameplay, I can't stop crying.

I still don't agree with Lara's voice. Don't you think they shoud have pick someone with more mature voice? Being 21 years old doesn't mean your voice can't sound like you're 40. Woman's voice does not mutate so drastically through the years!

In an interview, Karl said that Lara's voice will change through the game. What we heard was an afraid and inexperienced Lara and that shows in her voice. But as we progress in the game and Lara stars to toughen up her voice will become more confident and strong!

Personally, I really like the new voice actress! At first it was strange but now I think I got used to it and it's really growing on me!

andrew90
8th Jun 2011, 15:10
In an interview, Karl said that Lara's voice will change through the game. What we heard was an afraid and inexperienced Lara and that shows in her voice. But as we progress in the game and Lara stars to toughen up her voice will become more confident and strong!


Personally, I really like the new voice actress! At first it was strange but now I think I got used to it and it's really growing on me!


Yes he did said that, I watched it too.

The first time i saw the demo I thought it was strange too (too much mouning, not that the voice wasn't fitting) but after several times I started to like it. I'm sure she will do great!

LC is Me
8th Jun 2011, 15:17
I think people are getting a little TOO worked up over an extremely short gameplay trailer for a game that is STILL in the works and won't be out for another year PLUS.

Seriously. Calm down.

Natla
8th Jun 2011, 16:26
In an interview, Karl said that Lara's voice will change through the game. What we heard was an afraid and inexperienced Lara and that shows in her voice. But as we progress in the game and Lara stars to toughen up her voice will become more confident and strong!

Personally, I really like the new voice actress! At first it was strange but now I think I got used to it and it's really growing on me!

I wonder if her voice will start off all high pitched like Alvin Chipmunk and then get lower and lower during gameplay until she sounds like Dr Girlfriend?

WinterSoldierLTE
8th Jun 2011, 22:45
It's probably been said already, but that survival instinct thing really isn't new to TR. Remember in "Legend" how you could switch to R.A.D. mode w/ the binocs? Same thing far as I can gather. R.A.D. mode was optional, so I don't see why survival instinct wouldn't be as well.

@LC is Me: Amen to that.

@MissJess: Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

Cheeky_Charlie
10th Jun 2011, 05:57
Man, I loved her voice :)

d1n0_xD
10th Jun 2011, 08:51
Man, I loved her voice :)

Word! :D

And yeah, people, seriously, stop complaining :P It's just one video (2, counting the trailer) and stuff aren't done yet... If you're gonna be on your toes for the next 1.5 years, then seriously, become a balet dancer :P The highlight ability is optional and Lara's voice will change during the game :D

Treeble
10th Jun 2011, 22:15
"Eagle Vision" didn't ruin Assassin's Creed. "Detective Mode" didn't ruin Arkham Asylum. Just can't see why the same feature would work against Tomb Raider.

IvanaKC
10th Jun 2011, 22:29
Word! :D

And yeah, people, seriously, stop complaining :P It's just one video (2, counting the trailer) and stuff aren't done yet... If you're gonna be on your toes for the next 1.5 years, then seriously, become a balet dancer :P The highlight ability is optional and Lara's voice will change during the game :D

Changing the voice? Seriously, how stupid do they think I am? They shouldn't change the voice, but voice actress!

And, I agree with ya with one thing. Why are evryone complaing about that highligh ability? You don't even have to use it if you don't like it. It can't hurt you, it's here to help you.

dark7angel
10th Jun 2011, 22:38
Changing the voice? Seriously, how stupid do they think I am? They shouldn't change the voice, but voice actress!

At E3, besides the demo that we saw, there was another one showcased behind closed doors that featured some dialogue and cutscenes. The reviews from this demo all say that the voice actress is really good!

Personally, I think she does a great job in both the trailer and the demo we saw (specially in the extended version of the demo, because it's better paced!).

IvanaKC
10th Jun 2011, 22:50
At E3, besides the demo that we saw, there was another one showcased behind closed doors that featured some dialogue and cutscenes. The reviews from this demo all say that the voice actress is really good!


These are all personal opinions, don't forget that. No matter how hard she is trying (whoever she is), I still think her voice doesn't fit. My opinion is not going to change the fact she is now official voice of Lara Croft in this game, so you can enjoy listening to her as long as you like.

I suppose I'll be forced not to buy game just because of the voice actress, and wait for new game to come out. :)

d1n0_xD
10th Jun 2011, 22:59
These are all personal opinions, don't forget that. No matter how hard she is trying (whoever she is), I still think her voice doesn't fit. My opinion is not going to change the fact she is now official voice of Lara Croft in this game, so you can enjoy listening to her as long as you like.

I suppose I'll be forced not to buy game just because of the voice actress, and wait for new game to come out. :)

There's always an option to turn the voice audio down :whistle: Just kidding, no harsh feeling ^^

Cheeky_Charlie
11th Jun 2011, 06:20
These are all personal opinions, don't forget that. No matter how hard she is trying (whoever she is), I still think her voice doesn't fit. My opinion is....

I agree on that one. These are all just peoples own opinions. Personally I loved Laras voice in the original TR and so on, and opposite to what I think most of you people thought of Keeley Hawes, i didn´t like her voice at all.

All I can say is that it´s a big jump from timeline in TRunderworld to aaaalll the way to the beginning when our heroine is just 21 and a scared newcomer to the world of survival, the voice fits perfectly in that sense. :thumb:

mikey716
11th Jun 2011, 17:53
This might be a Good/fail game! Im hearing lots of bad thoughts on it! Plus its been confirmed NO SWIMMING -____- ! I like to fool around in the water in the game! ANd the voice is ok but it dosent fit!

Phaid_Min6Char_Sigh
11th Jun 2011, 18:04
I just hope that there won't be any QTE during platforming. The end of the demo was easily the worst part of the presentation, because what could be a nice platforming/climbing section has been turned into button mashing = something BAD.

I want as few QTEs as possible. The less, the better. They're a poor substitute for real gameplay.

Bloodwolf806
11th Jun 2011, 18:31
This game looks like the breath of life this series needed. I've never been looking forward to a Tomb Raider game as much as I am this one.

lookalikelara
11th Jun 2011, 21:23
Jeez the moaning and limping is ANNOYING. and I think her voice is kinda annoying too but i can ignore that or just turn my volume down ;). but yea im a big TR fan and i think im at the point where even if the game is horrible i am still gonna buy it. another thing is the trailer shows the very beginning where lara is unexperienced and weak .... so i think after a bit she will develop into are usual favorite lara :)... at least i hope she does

d1n0_xD
11th Jun 2011, 23:34
This game looks like the breath of life this series needed. I've never been looking forward to a Tomb Raider game as much as I am this one.

Now, that's the spirit! :D :thumb:

Cheeky_Charlie
13th Jun 2011, 06:09
Now, that's the spirit! :D :thumb:

Exactly!!

IvanaKC
13th Jun 2011, 14:16
I just hope that there won't be any QTE during platforming. The end of the demo was easily the worst part of the presentation, because what could be a nice platforming/climbing section has been turned into button mashing = something BAD.

I want as few QTEs as possible. The less, the better. They're a poor substitute for real gameplay.

You know, that's what came to my mind too. I thought Tomb Raider was about climbing and making your own path, and if the rock hits you, you have to start over. Maybe that's just something for introduction to see if it works for Tomb Raider. I bet there will be plenty places where Lara could climb.

Cheeky_Charlie
14th Jun 2011, 05:26
You know, that's what came to my mind too. I thought Tomb Raider was about climbing and making your own path, and if the rock hits you, you have to start over. Maybe that's just something for introduction to see if it works for Tomb Raider. I bet there will be plenty places where Lara could climb.

Me too, the less QTE the better. I hated the QTEs in Anniversary, they ruined the fast paced battles a bit. I would have liked to kick Natlas henchmens asses without QTE. :mad2:

LC is Me
14th Jun 2011, 15:00
I understand these are personal opinions, but people use that as an excuse to whine extremely too much.

IvanaKC
14th Jun 2011, 19:17
I understand these are personal opinions, but people use that as an excuse to whine extremely too much.


No, it's just the way to express how unsatisfied they are. :D

LC is Me
15th Jun 2011, 00:53
No, it's just the way to express how unsatisfied they are. :D
And again, all for expressing dissatisfaction.
But there are ways to do that without being spiteful.
Ever since Square has come into the picture, people are finding all sorts of ways to make it seem like they are trying to put too much of an influence on TR or people expect this game to be a pain because of the voice actress.

Mute your TV. Prollum solved.

Cheeky_Charlie
16th Jun 2011, 05:11
I still don´t have any problems with her voice :)

Charlie.T.Raider
24th Jun 2011, 00:32
Much as I love the effects of the trailer, it's stunning visuals and story with that voice and body shape I can't get Lara from it.

Greenas
24th Jun 2011, 11:18
That moaning is killing me too! And I'm serious, it's not treason if you don't buy this new Tomb Raider because, to me, it doesn't look promising at all.
I even think that Tomb Raider is not going to be so popular. So many new games are coming out at the same time (like AC) and they look much better. I hope this won't destroy our favorite series...

Tomb Raider was a real standout title at e3. I think that managed to attract significant attention to the reboot. Media reaction has been extremely positive, and that always has been and always will be one of the major influencing factors when gamers decide to buy a game.

It's new, it's fresh, it's not a slightly upgraded version of Underworld. The story, character believability and gameplay are all new to the Tomb Raider franchise. Personally I think the new AC isn't that interesting. Each game is an update of the next, nothing significantly different is introduced. It just seems like a few rehashed textures and some new dialogue. Combat changes are always minor.

Also we don't know much about which games will be coming out in q3 next year. Most of the standout titles are releasing later this year, Tomb Raider only next. We don't know much about sales competition yet.

d1n0_xD
24th Jun 2011, 11:28
Yeah, over the last few weeks, I saw a large number of articles around the web, all with positive reactions. And, if I'm not mistaken, the new AC comes out later this year AND there isn't many new things considering the gameplay (don't get me wrong, I think the game is great :D). Seriously, people PRAISE the new Tomb Raider ^^ I can't wait for some news, combat should be introduced to us very soon ^^

IvanaKC
24th Jun 2011, 11:59
Yeah, over the last few weeks, I saw a large number of articles around the web, all with positive reactions. And, if I'm not mistaken, the new AC comes out later this year AND there isn't many new things considering the gameplay (don't get me wrong, I think the game is great :D). Seriously, people PRAISE the new Tomb Raider ^^ I can't wait for some news, combat should be introduced to us very soon ^^


It's all positive because they have to be objective. TR is changed and they are judging considering the facts, not considering how TR used to look like.

There is no guns, fine, but no swimming? Even a new born child can swim if you put it in the water. I hope they will surprise me with some great combat moves because if that fails, they will prove they are not capable of making a good TR game.

d1n0_xD
24th Jun 2011, 12:10
It's all positive because they have to be objective. TR is changed and they are judging considering the facts, not considering how TR used to look like.

There is no guns, fine, but no swimming? Even a new born child can swim if you put it in the water. I hope they will surprise me with some great combat moves because if that fails, they will prove they are not capable of making a good TR game.

Well, noone said she isn't able to swim, there is just no water levels... And it makes sense, it's an island, the only water is the ocean. Maybe there is a little pond or something XD But, if you're implying that you loved swimming, pulling levers underwater, and underwater puzzles, I get it, but it isn't a huge flaw to not have the water/swimming. And guns, maybe (I'm quite sure) there will be guns, but with a limited ammo, so you could use them wisely, this is an island, ammo and guns don't grow on trees... I understand your pessimism, but everything says that this will be, if not great, a very good and enjoyable game. And for the record, combat will be introduced to us very soon, and they said that it is very ambitious, something like that, but very good ^^
I just read some old posts, where Ants said he doesn't like the CGI, and in this game there are hardly visible transitions from gameplay to CGI, and vice-versa, if none actually ^^

IvanaKC
24th Jun 2011, 12:23
Well, noone said she isn't able to swim, there is just no water levels... And it makes sense, it's an island, the only water is the ocean. Maybe there is a little pond or something XD But, if you're implying that you loved swimming, pulling levers underwater, and underwater puzzles, I get it, but it isn't a huge flaw to not have the water/swimming. And guns, maybe (I'm quite sure) there will be guns, but with a limited ammo, so you could use them wisely, this is an island, ammo and guns don't grow on trees... I understand your pessimism, but everything says that this will be, if not great, a very good and enjoyable game. And for the record, combat will be introduced to us very soon, and they said that it is very ambitious, something like that, but very good ^^
I just read some old posts, where Ants said he doesn't like the CGI, and in this game there are hardly visible transitions from gameplay to CGI, and vice-versa, if none actually ^^



About the combat, I wonder how is it going to look like this time. No guns means everything she grabs can be used as a weapon, right? Maybe it will be similar to Silent Hill?

Oh great, now I can't wait to see! XD

Ants_27_
24th Jun 2011, 18:36
About the combat, I wonder how is it going to look like this time. No guns means everything she grabs can be used as a weapon, right? Maybe it will be similar to Silent Hill?

Oh great, now I can't wait to see! XD

Yeah, gameplay like Silent Hill would be pretty cool. As I am a pretty good Silent Hill fan, although I haven't played them all.

As for guns I hope they take the approach they are taking with Silent Hill Downpour. One of the designers I think said:

There is a gun, but there are only three bullets, so how are you going to use them?

I like the concept behind those words.

d1n0_xD
24th Jun 2011, 19:02
Makes sense to me ^^

Greenas
24th Jun 2011, 21:38
It's all positive because they have to be objective. TR is changed and they are judging considering the facts, not considering how TR used to look like.


Which means that they're looking at the new TR with open eyes, and if they pass a good judgement when they are keeping an open mind, that means that the new TR must look really promising.

WinterSoldierLTE
24th Jun 2011, 23:41
About the combat, I wonder how is it going to look like this time. No guns means everything she grabs can be used as a weapon, right? Maybe it will be similar to Silent Hill?

Oh great, now I can't wait to see! XD

I could dig on some "Silent Hill" style combat. And it would make sense to have a similar style, as only 1 of the Silent Hill protaganist thus far has ever had expierience with a weapon before picking one up in the game (everyone was basicaly Average Joe except for Alex from 'Homecoming', who was a soldier), and this is Lara's first foray into the wild, as it were.

And about the 3 bullets bit mentioned about "Downpour", I heard that as well, but much as I love Silent hill and the VERY limited items collection in them (which ups the terror, really. "Ah SMEG! ONE health drink left and only 5 shells?! I'm only 20 minutes into the game and there's lurkers about!"), I can't see them letting us have only 3 total for the whole game. That's just... unfair, even in SH terms. But, could be why they're also throwing in the "Shattered Memories" running system in the game. Should definately be interesting.

dark7angel
25th Jun 2011, 09:30
Which means that they're looking at the new TR with open eyes, and if they pass a good judgement when they are keeping an open mind, that means that the new TR must look really promising.

Exactly! I totally agree with you!:thumb:

IvanaKC
25th Jun 2011, 12:56
And about the 3 bullets bit mentioned about "Downpour", I heard that as well, but much as I love Silent hill and the VERY limited items collection in them (which ups the terror, really. "Ah SMEG! ONE health drink left and only 5 shells?! I'm only 20 minutes into the game and there's lurkers about!"), I can't see them letting us have only 3 total for the whole game. That's just... unfair, even in SH terms. But, could be why they're also throwing in the "Shattered Memories" running system in the game. Should definately be interesting.



Oh God, I hope items won't be that limited! That is the thing I hate the most. For a new player it would be very bad to run out of, for example health-packs. He would be killed very quick.

Yeah, and we still don't know who are our enemies so I can't say anything. I hope they won't exaggerate.

Cheeky_Charlie
27th Jun 2011, 07:26
There is no guns, fine, but no swimming? Even a new born child can swim if you put it in the water.

When 2012 hits through our front door and TR is in the shelves somewhere( everywhere) and I find out that this the-future-of-TR-stands-on-her-shoulders-Lara CAN´T SWIM... I´m going to go and burn something BIG. :mad2:

JRod108
30th Jun 2011, 07:00
I rather like her voice, it gives the sense of just how young, scared and inexperienced she is. I wouldn't call what she's doing "moaning." She's just survived a boat crash and by the looks of it, Lara's awoken in some creepy place and doesn't have any idea how she got there. All the talking is most likely her wanting to hear her own voice after and during a traumatic situation. I don't know, I rather think she's reacting just as I would expect her to, but that's just me.

As for the voice actor, she sounded different to me, but not bad. It was a jolt to hear what she sounded like when I saw the trailer just now, but as it went on, I gradually found myself warming up to it. I suppose it's vastly different than what we are used to, but I don't really see that as a bad thing. After all, this is supposed to be a reimagining of the series, I guess.

Really, the only things that have me concerned are the topics I've always disliked throughout the series. Combat and QTEs. I'm not actually expecting this game to be the best ever in the sense of combat, considering she probably hasn't even touched guns, let alone used them. However, that doesn't mean that they can't incorporate a more shooter style in combat.

I've always felt that the auto-targeting in TR has been, well, boring. It's hardly challenging and in TRU, it was ridiculously easy to beat the game on even the hardest difficulty level. I feel there is no challenge in regards to combat, if this game is like Underworld, where all the player did was hold both triggers and strafe for a minute, then this will disappoint me greatly. Introducing a 3PS gamestyle would actually help the series, IMO and allow for the player to actually get through this game, in terms of combat, on their own skill merits. However, if what we saw in the demo is a clue to what's to come, then I'm not confident. And that brings me to the QTEs.

The Tomb-sense ability that CD has introduced has annoyed me since I first came across it. It takes away all skill level and becomes bland very quickly. These little button prompts remove tension as well. As soon as I see them, they indicate to me that Lara is going to get out of whatever corner she's stuck in with no doubt whatsoever. It's a Get Out of S*** Card. In a game replay, they're obnoxiously boring. No matter what, Lara is always going to jump the same way, shoot the same thing, and react the same way she did on the last playthough. If they're going to continue to use the QTEs to escape enemies, then that just makes me a bit unconfident that the devs are moving towards a less automated combat system. I've always wondered why they even have combat in these games if they make it so easy. Mass Effect is a role-playing game, but the mere fact that I could aim my own reticule and pull the trigger when I wanted to did not ruin the experience in any way. It was a step up from KotOR's combat system that was purely "select an option and watch." This is what I've always wanted from this series.

From what I can see, they have the enviroment down, the tension, and the sense of complete independence. The puzzles look like they've been stepped up too. As long as they keep the survival instinct thing to showing me what I need to do, rather than how to do it, then fine. However, I believe if they took out the annoying QTEs and upgraded combat, then I think that could only help make the game harder, which sounds good to me.

d1n0_xD
30th Jun 2011, 08:20
I rather like her voice, it gives the sense of just how young, scared and inexperienced she is. I wouldn't call what she's doing "moaning." She's just survived a boat crash and by the looks of it, Lara's awoken in some creepy place and doesn't have any idea how she got there. All the talking is most likely her wanting to hear her own voice after and during a traumatic situation. I don't know, I rather think she's reacting just as I would expect her to, but that's just me.

Exactly, I mean, imagine yourself going through that, an island, you're hanging in a sack or something, you get impaled by a spike and lots of weird things happen. I don't know about you, but I'd be screaming like a little girl. :p (No offense to little girls :D)

JRod108
30th Jun 2011, 08:29
Exactly, I mean, imagine yourself going through that, an island, you're hanging in a sack or something, you get impaled by a spike and lots of weird things happen. I don't know about you, but I'd be screaming like a little girl. :p (No offense to little girls :D)

I would have given up and been killed in the sack thing if I was in her situation, actually. So, at least I wouldn't get impaled by the spike thing. Though, death by knife or burning would have the same effect and would be worse, respectively.

Greenas
30th Jun 2011, 15:23
Exactly, I mean, imagine yourself going through that, an island, you're hanging in a sack or something, you get impaled by a spike and lots of weird things happen. I don't know about you, but I'd be screaming like a little girl. :p (No offense to little girls :D)

Exactly, it's a defence mechanism, not moaning.

IvanaKC
30th Jun 2011, 15:54
Exactly, I mean, imagine yourself going through that, an island, you're hanging in a sack or something, you get impaled by a spike and lots of weird things happen. I don't know about you, but I'd be screaming like a little girl. :p (No offense to little girls :D)


I bet you wouldn't, it's not so hard as Hollywood and games try to show it. Have you ever had a nail in your foot? I did and it's the same thing. I wasn't screaming like Lara (a little girl :p), I got it out by myself. I also live near some woods that used to be swamp, so I know how wilderness looks like. :)

I guess CD didn't considered the fact that in real life women have stronger heart and can bear with more pain that men because if they couldn't, they would die while giving a birth.

Greenas
30th Jun 2011, 16:02
I bet you wouldn't, it's not so hard as Hollywood and games try to show it. Have you ever had a nail in your foot? I did and it's the same thing. I wasn't screaming like Lara (a little girl :p), I got it out by myself. I also live near some woods that used to be swamp, so I know how wilderness looks like. :)

I guess CD didn't considered the fact that in real life women have stronger heart and can bear with more pain that men because if they couldn't, they would die while giving a birth.

I've stood on a large piece of glass before. It just felt cold at first, the pain only started when the shock went away and it wasn't that bad anyway. :)

However, I still think a nail or piece of glass in the foot is very different from being impaled by a large spike.

d1n0_xD
30th Jun 2011, 16:10
I bet you wouldn't, it's not so hard as Hollywood and games try to show it. Have you ever had a nail in your foot? I did and it's the same thing. I wasn't screaming like Lara (a little girl :p), I got it out by myself. I also live near some woods that used to be swamp, so I know how wilderness looks like. :)

I guess CD didn't considered the fact that in real life women have stronger heart and can bear with more pain that men because if they couldn't, they would die while giving a birth.


Ok, I know what you mean, but that's a familiar environment, imagine right now, you wake up in a jungle or something, you're by yourself, it's dark and you hear weird voices, I mean, it's pure paranoia, you're freaking out! I mean, this is a younger Lara, she thought something like: "I wanna go on an adventure, it's gonna be fun!" and adventure showed just how much fun it is XD
And when I say I would scream, I mean it XD

P.S. You can't really compare a nail in your foot and a giant spike in you abdomen, come on :p

If I was lurking through that tunnel, man, if something even moved, I'd have a heart attack XD

All I'm saying, that "moaning" is just the first touch, the first feel of being by yourself, not knowing where you are and all sorts of creepy stuff going around... She will snap out of it, I mean, we read that script, she found Roth, they're just starting to get used to the environent, so no worries :D

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Jun 2011, 22:31
I got no problem saying I'd freak out. Nothing against nature, I love it, it's great, but it can also be pretty damn scary in the dark. And Gilla Monsters? Man, those things just ain't natural. Stick me in a dark hallway or tunnel with those things lurking about... ew, forget it!

But, I played all the Silent Hill games in the dark on my first playthroughs of them, so perhaps they affected me when it comes to dealing with dark rooms and whatnot.

IvanaKC
2nd Jul 2011, 21:45
Ok, I know what you mean, but that's a familiar environment, imagine right now, you wake up in a jungle or something, you're by yourself, it's dark and you hear weird voices, I mean, it's pure paranoia, you're freaking out! I mean, this is a younger Lara, she thought something like: "I wanna go on an adventure, it's gonna be fun!" and adventure showed just how much fun it is XD
And when I say I would scream, I mean it XD

P.S. You can't really compare a nail in your foot and a giant spike in you abdomen, come on :p



I can't? I can't?!? What if that's not the only bad thing! Imagine being in pain just because of running and it's happening since you were born. Yeah, I have a huge scar on my right leg which I won't talk about here. But it brings the same amount of pain as a spike. Funny thing is that I don't have any needs to talk to myself when I'm in pain.

That was just an example. There are worse situations worth moaning. If got used to that, so can Lara, she is supposed to be much stronger human being than we are. :)

d1n0_xD
2nd Jul 2011, 23:20
Oh, sorry about that. But still, you're just proving my point... You (if I got that right) have that scar for a pretty long time, and you learned to deal with that pain. But, to Lara, this is a shock, it's all so sudden... That's why she's "moaning", she's scared... Talking to yourself (she probably doesn't even realise that) helps overcome the fear, to deal with the sudden unfamiliar environment.


If got used to that, so can Lara, she is supposed to be much stronger human being than we are. :)

And here we are with the conclusion. She WILL get used to it, and for that she needs time. The demo is like the first 10 minutes of the game. This is a reboot, at this point, she's just a regular human being like we are, but, she will realise that she needs to toughen up in order to survive... And believe me, that will happen, it just has to, simple as that :D

IvanaKC
3rd Jul 2011, 11:32
Oh, sorry about that. But still, you're just proving my point... You (if I got that right) have that scar for a pretty long time, and you learned to deal with that pain. But, to Lara, this is a shock, it's all so sudden... That's why she's "moaning", she's scared... Talking to yourself (she probably doesn't even realise that) helps overcome the fear, to deal with the sudden unfamiliar environment.



And here we are with the conclusion. She WILL get used to it, and for that she needs time. The demo is like the first 10 minutes of the game. This is a reboot, at this point, she's just a regular human being like we are, but, she will realise that she needs to toughen up in order to survive... And believe me, that will happen, it just has to, simple as that :D

I see what you mean. This time I didn't considered the fact that it's still just the demo and it's first 10 minutes of the game. My bad! :)

Oh, now I'm starting to imagine Lara at the end of the game: after everything she went through, she is now tough enough (look at the rhyme :p) to go home and start a new adventure. Maybe this idea of Lara becoming tough because of this island, is not so bad. I just wish from the bottom of my heart that she eventually stops talking to herself. :D

laracrofty1
6th Jul 2011, 13:57
I don't know why they keep saying this is her first adventure in TR4 she is a teenager with experienced archaeologist-adventurer Werner Von Croy.
and also AOD was the same idea survival- Lara had nothing to start with and had the cops after her and then CORE lost it all so if this goes pear shaped what will happen then?
as for TGOL it was BS not tomb raider it could have been mickey mouse with guns, so I hope this one works considering all the changes - Lara always had brown eyes and hair
now she has blue eyes and the hair is getting brighter too. plus by the time your 21 your voice pattern is set so why will they be changing her voice during the game? in my opinion they should have continued where UW left off starting with Alister's funeral.

JRod108
6th Jul 2011, 14:44
I don't know why they keep saying this is her first adventure in TR4 she is a teenager with experienced archaeologist-adventurer Werner Von Croy.
and also AOD was the same idea survival- Lara had nothing to start with and had the cops after her and then CORE lost it all so if this goes pear shaped what will happen then?
as for TGOL it was BS not tomb raider it could have been mickey mouse with guns, so I hope this one works considering all the changes - Lara always had brown eyes and hair
now she has blue eyes and the hair is getting brighter too. plus by the time your 21 your voice pattern is set so why will they be changing her voice during the game? in my opinion they should have continued where UW left off starting with Alister's funeral.

This is her first adventure; this new game's a reboot. They're staring the whole series over, and Lara's probably not even met Von Croy.

AoD wasn't a finished game. It was rushed and it showed for it. This game, however, still has a year and a half of development to go through, on top of the years it has already been worked on. Why do you have such a cynical view on a game that has only given us a teaser trailer and small demo? :scratch:

I thought she had this sort of brown color, speckled with yellow for eyes.... As for the voice changing, I don't think they're refering to an actual change out of the voice actor's own range. More like the voice actor will make Lara sound more confident and experienced. Right now, she sounds scared and young. I'm nearly sure that this "change" will be believable.

Underworld was finished. I don't think there was anything else she could do with that storyline. CD seemed to enjoy using a Lara that was motivated by more than a desire to go rob random objects from various tombs. Her parents were a very large source of her motivation, and both were revealed to be dead. As such, what more could they do with that? Sure, they could have sent her off on another adventure, but what would that have done for the series? It would have been just another game in a dying franchise. This new game, though, has garnered attention and it looks like it can give a much needed revival for Lara.

laracrofty1
7th Jul 2011, 15:07
This is her first adventure; this new game's a reboot. They're staring the whole series over, and Lara's probably not even met Von Croy.

AoD wasn't a finished game. It was rushed and it showed for it. This game, however, still has a year and a half of development to go through, on top of the years it has already been worked on. Why do you have such a cynical view on a game that has only given us a teaser trailer and small demo? :scratch:

I thought she had this sort of brown color, speckled with yellow for eyes.... As for the voice changing, I don't think they're refering to an actual change out of the voice actor's own range. More like the voice actor will make Lara sound more confident and experienced. Right now, she sounds scared and young. I'm nearly sure that this "change" will be believable.

Underworld was finished. I don't think there was anything else she could do with that storyline. CD seemed to enjoy using a Lara that was motivated by more than a desire to go rob random objects from various tombs. Her parents were a very large source of her motivation, and both were revealed to be dead. As such, what more could they do with that? Sure, they could have sent her off on another adventure, but what would that have done for the series? It would have been just another game in a dying franchise. This new game, though, has garnered attention and it looks like it can give a much needed revival for Lara.
Correction this is her 10th adventure, whether you like it or not,it is!
I have been playing tomb raider since it's inception and you want me and other players to forget the nine other games? well sorry that's not going to happen!

how do you know she hasn't met Von Croy? are you part of the Eidos team?
The reason tomb raider has continued this long is because of the Lara we do know and love so why reboot her at all? you say the change in the voice will be believable and Eidos say that this Lara will be more human, so if that's the route they are taking then she should be dead just after the teaser demo shown, firstly she has a serious arm injury and leg injury -secondly she was just impaled on a spike that more than likely went into her kidney and she pulls the spike out now even at 21 years old you would know you don't do that, so she's more than likely got internal bleeding plus the wound has not been treated so she is also bleeding out , so how the hell is she moving around? plus she has also been burned when she pushes the guy tied up in front of her into the sacrificial fire so that her ropes will burn so she can fall so that part is total BS! :rolleyes:
she also has to get food and water now if I wanted to play Lara Croft the Sims I would be on the EA forum not this one.

as far as AOD is concerned I don't care if it was finished or not it was sooo boring CORE lost the plot and I think these guys have too. the rating alone tells you that, did you know that if Lara does not get away from the guy with the bad hairdo that he puts a spike through her neck? some of her deaths are so awful that they can not be shown on the big screen! so if I and other true fans are cynical I think we have a right to be! after all without us tomb raider would not have got as far as it has!

Now I never said continue UW- I said continue from UW starting with Alister's funeral. UW is done a dusted, but for PC gamers it ended sooner than for other console users which was very wrong:mad2: since PC gamers have and will always be the main stay of the gaming business.:) Croft Manor is gone so all her artifacts are gone too, so in my mind there is plenty of room there for several adventures. also the main reason in UW that Lara went after Thor's belt & hammer was because Alister had been murdered by her enemies- they had gone too far so it was anger & grief that motivated that. is that not human enough of an answer?

d1n0_xD
7th Jul 2011, 15:47
Correction this is her 10th adventure, whether you like it or not,it is!
I have been playing tomb raider since it's inception and you want me and other players to forget the nine other games? well sorry that's not going to happen!

how do you know she hasn't met Von Croy? are you part of the Eidos team?
The reason tomb raider has continued this long is because of the Lara we do know and love so why reboot her at all? you say the change in the voice will be believable and Eidos say that this Lara will be more human, so if that's the route they are taking then she should be dead just after the teaser demo shown, firstly she has a serious arm injury and leg injury -secondly she was just impaled on a spike that more than likely went into her kidney and she pulls the spike out now even at 21 years old you would know you don't do that, so she's more than likely got internal bleeding plus the wound has not been treated so she is also bleeding out , so how the hell is she moving around? plus she has also been burned when she pushes the guy tied up in front of her into the sacrificial fire so that her ropes will burn so she can fall so that part is total BS! :rolleyes:
she also has to get food and water now if I wanted to play Lara Croft the Sims I would be on the EA forum not this one.

as far as AOD is concerned I don't care if it was finished or not it was sooo boring CORE lost the plot and I think these guys have too. the rating alone tells you that, did you know that if Lara does not get away from the guy with the bad hairdo that he puts a spike through her neck? some of her deaths are so awful that they can not be shown on the big screen! so if I and other true fans are cynical I think we have a right to be! after all without us tomb raider would not have got as far as it has!

Now I never said continue UW- I said continue from UW starting with Alister's funeral. UW is done a dusted, but for PC gamers it ended sooner than for other console users which was very wrong:mad2: since PC gamers have and will always be the main stay of the gaming business.:) Croft Manor is gone so all her artifacts are gone too, so in my mind there is plenty of room there for several adventures. also the main reason in UW that Lara went after Thor's belt & hammer was because Alister had been murdered by her enemies- they had gone too far so it was anger & grief that motivated that. is that not human enough of an answer?

Dude(or duda), if you played Legend and survived, what's the big deal with this one then? In-game, it's her first adventure, R-E-B-O-O-T!

She hasn't met Von Croy because: a) this TR has got nothing to do with all the previous ones, b) she has Conrad.
Chill out, this is a game, a spike ran through her and she survived, big deal, if you play CoD, you get hit by 10 bullets and then die, come on!

And I don't even want to comment the rest of the post xD

Just, have some trust in CD, so what if it si a reboot, we get to REALLY know Lara this time, more than any game before. It wouldn't hurt to be a little optimistic, especially with some great footage we've seen. And still, there is plenty time to get some more news and all until fall of 2012.

laracrofty1
7th Jul 2011, 16:07
Dude(or duda), if you played Legend and survived, what's the big deal with this one then? In-game, it's her first adventure, R-E-B-O-O-T!

She hasn't met Von Croy because: a) this TR has got nothing to do with all the previous ones, b) she has Conrad.
Chill out, this is a game, a spike ran through her and she survived, big deal, if you play CoD, you get hit by 10 bullets and then die, come on!

And I don't even want to comment the rest of the post xD

Just, have some trust in CD, so what if it si a reboot, we get to REALLY know Lara this time, more than any game before. It wouldn't hurt to be a little optimistic, especially with some great footage we've seen. And still, there is plenty time to get some more news and all until fall of 2012.
Firstly don't call me dude or duda,
secondly you have only being playing tomb raider since 2007 so your a newbie to the game!
thirdly you chill out I have a right to my opinion if you don't like it then don't comment. if your happy with the reboot good for you. and to answer your question yes I got through legend and all nine games and survived - have you?

dark7angel
7th Jul 2011, 16:32
Firstly don't call me dude or duda,
secondly you have only being playing tomb raider since 2007 so your a newbie to the game!
thirdly you chill out I have a right to my opinion if you don't like it then don't comment. if your happy with the reboot good for you. and to answer your question yes I got through legend and all nine games and survived - have you?

Just because d1n0_xD has been playing TR since 2007 and you have been for longer doesn't mean his opinion about the reboot is not valid. I've been playing TR since the beginning and I share d1n0_xD's opinion. It's really not cool to disregard someone's opinion just because he's a "newbie"

I understand that you are reluctant about the reboot, but honestly IMO this was the only way to bring the Tomb Raider franchise back to life!!!

d1n0_xD
7th Jul 2011, 16:42
@laracrofty1: Hey, if I had started playing this yesterday, I'd be a newbie... And don't high talk to me because you played ALL the games. I played some classics, and still don't have a problem with these reboots. I mentioned Legend because that was also some kind of a reboot.
CD felt that they need to reboot TR, not because the franchise is dead or something, they just want to tell the story of a younger Lara, how she became that determined tomb raider we all love... And they came up with the new background. And here you are, not knowing why they keep saying it's her first adventure. Yeah, we all know this is the 9th game, but that doesn't mean... Argh, nevermind, I'm a newbie, what do I know :D

Edit: thanks dark7angel, for the support ^^

Elliot Kane
7th Jul 2011, 17:16
Laracrofty,

Like you, I have played the entire series. I am, nonetheless, prepared to give a reboot a chance. Time enough to slate it when we know what we are slating, don't you think? Or who knows - it might even be a good game.

I'd rather have a thriving but rebooted franchise than no more Lara games because they just aren't selling.

IvanaKC
7th Jul 2011, 20:16
Laracrofty,

Like you, I have played the entire series. I am, nonetheless, prepared to give a reboot a chance. Time enough to slate it when we know what we are slating, don't you think? Or who knows - it might even be a good game.

I'd rather have a thriving but rebooted franchise than no more Lara games because they just aren't selling.

That's right!


I was against reboot and I was pissed, but I'm not anymore and I certainly won't be angry at someone if he/she doesn't agree with me. Stop fighting over that, nothing will change the fact that TR is different. That's why we have official wishlist thread, go there, vote and hope you can change the game. :)

sierra xb
7th Jul 2011, 21:32
Firstly don't call me dude or duda,
secondly you have only being playing tomb raider since 2007 so your a newbie to the game!
thirdly you chill out I have a right to my opinion if you don't like it then don't comment. if your happy with the reboot good for you. and to answer your question yes I got through legend and all nine games and survived - have you?

@Laracrofty...why so touchy? It's obvious that you don't like the game, so don't buy it when it comes out. Also, since when does being involved in something for FOUR YEARS make someone a newbie? Maybe if you are studying to be a doctor, but in most places, 4 years of experience usually makes you an expert :) Next, it sounds like you don't like someone having an opinion about YOUR opinion. Are we only allowed to respond positively to someone's thoughts? Sure sounds like that is what your are telling XD. This is a discussion forum, and discussions often involve both good and bad comments about what others have posted. If you can't deal with that, then I'd suggest staying away from forums altogether because it's gonna happen.

We all have a love of Tomb Raider in common, so let's not get upset at the differences and concentrate on what we love...Lara :)

WinterSoldierLTE
7th Jul 2011, 22:15
@laracrofty chill out, dude. It's only a forum. And people like you are the ones who give them a bad rep. People have opinions, they come here to share/voice and discuss them in a proper manner. Everyone can do it, even you. No reason to be tetchy.

I've played all the TRs, I've enjoyed them all, and I agree with D1n0 100%. Even CORE knew TR was in trouble at the time and needed a change.

QiX
7th Jul 2011, 22:57
I play the series since Tomb Raider 2 Golden Mask, which is long enough to include me among the dinosaur fans, and I'm loving everything about the reboot so far. The game was simply getting old, both the story and the format, is was beat the dust off and allow the fresh air in or death to the series. This is year zero, the counter was reset, anything is possible from now on. This is the best thing they could do with the series now, if not the only one.

Having played all the games since the first doesn't grant you privileges, nor the right to bash someone for having started in 2007. Crystal Dynamics are the guys in charge now, and they are doing great, considered what Core did to the series. Only fans played AoD, and not all of them. I bought it, started it, hated it from the very first level and abandoned it in a shelf after 4 levels. Forget AoD, that was the tombstone put on Core's grave. Lara became much bigger than Core, be glad that Crystal saw a potential and didn't let her die for good like most of the game heroes from the nineties.

Phaid_Min6Char_Sigh
8th Jul 2011, 10:36
I've also been playing TR since the beginning - with TR1,2 and 4 being my favourite - but I have to agree with one thing - Lara as a character was never what I found appealing about the series. It was the gameplay, the whole sense of "adventuring", Indiana Jones treasure hunting.

It might sound like heresy for some, but I always, ALWAYS found the old Lara "fake", almost made of plastic. She just wasn't that interesting as a character, felt more like a robot (dressed stupidly) than a likeable, real person. To me, anyway.

THIS is what excites me about the reboot. With that said, Crystal's Tomb Raiders weren't as strong as Core's in terms of gameplay and atmosphere, so I'm a bit worried, but hope the team does these aspects justice this time.

laracrofty1
8th Jul 2011, 13:18
Firstly to d1n0_xD , I am sorry if I offended you in anyway by calling you a newbie:D

secondly to the rest of you- I have no problem with the reboot or the new Lara she looks fab, and at last her bust size is natural. the game looks fab too I can't wait to get my hands on it.

the problem I'm having is that everyone here seems to know something the other Lara fans don't and that is that her whole history has been erased!
can anyone in Eidos confirm that it has?

The reason I ask is because Lara's history is what makes her who she is, she is a rebel, she is ( or maybe now not) Lady Lara Croft, how may titled Ladies go off on an adventure looking for artifacts, how many have full arms and martial arts training? this is one of the reasons I love playing the game she has everything and yet that is not enough.

I to have to confess that I play Lara because of the tomb raiding Indiana Jones thing I even bought the Indiana Jones game what a bummer!

Throughout the years Tomb Raider has evolved all for the best and the graphics are now great, being an Artist the one thing I love about the game is that you can stop and look around and see the beauty of the graphics and some are breathtaking like southern Mexico in UW.

When UW came out I thought at last they have got the controls right, of course much easier to play on Xbox 360 than on PC , I buy the 2 versions since Lara got onto other consoles.
UW and tomb raider 2 are my favorites and I Loved Lara's shadow.

:flowers:

Phaid_Min6Char_Sigh
8th Jul 2011, 14:10
Laracrofty1, check these three interviews:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/tomb-raider/14223

Developers compare this TR to "Batman Begins" and explain how they intend to tell the story of Lara again, start from scratch. They might have explained it better in some other interviews, made it even more clear, but I think the link I provided should suffice. Basically, old TRs "never happened", they're creating a new "origin" story which will apparently set the foundation for the new TR canon.

JRod108
8th Jul 2011, 14:20
Look, laracrofty, I'm not gonna give you much grief about your post to me, but I will say this. No, I am not on the dev team, but considering they have said multiple times in multiple interviews that the franchise was starting over, then I would say that assuming she has not met Von Croy would be common sense. He could easily be her professor or something, but I just don't see them meeting beyond that.

Elliot Kane
8th Jul 2011, 15:03
laracrofty1,

I think we all want the same thing at the end of the day - a thriving franchise with a Lara we can adore for all the reasons we each do.

It's understandable that we have concerns about the new direction. I think, if we are honest, there is unlikely to be a single person here who wholeheartedly embraces the idea of a total reboot without some doubts.

Could it all go very wrong? Sure. WILL it go wrong? Well, that's the thing, isn't it? I don't personally have the faintest idea, and I'd bet no-one else here does, either. With no offence to the CD team, they won't know for sure themselves, until they get the fan reactions, and that'll only happen when they release the game.

So, to my mind, the best thing is simply to wait on the game. If it's bad, fire all cannon by all means. You won't be alone.

But right now, tearing into the new game is like trying to shoot the cannon with no ammo when the target is out of range anyway. If you want to get in a decent broadside, you should wait for range and ammo both!

Who knows? You might even like the new game...

Driber
8th Jul 2011, 16:46
Just a friendly reminder to everyone that displays of elitism is not welcome here on the Eidos forums.

Newbies have as much right to express their opinion on any current or future TR game as long time fans. So please keep that in mind, keep it friendly and respect each other's opinions so that we can all enjoy a positive community.

Carry on :)

Mick2412
8th Jul 2011, 17:51
I get the feeling that this is going to be a great video game but a terrible Tomb Raider game if you get what I mean. I think CD have really got some new inovative ways of pushing the gameplay forward. When I see or hear the new Lara I just feel such dissapointment.

laracrofty1
8th Jul 2011, 21:14
thanks Phaid.

Hi Mick2412, I agree 100% with you, but then again anything I say is screamed at me in capital letter's with the word reboot.

just wondering since there is a demo that even interviewers have seen and some played it will it be available to download? so we can get a feel of the game, they said it's about 25 mins long, it would help a lot with doubts and such!


Look, laracrofty, I'm not gonna give you much grief about your post to me, but I will say this. No, I am not on the dev team, but considering they have said multiple times in multiple interviews that the franchise was starting over, then I would say that assuming she has not met Von Croy would be common sense. He could easily be her professor or something, but I just don't see them meeting beyond that.

JRod108, I never meant any harm in asking you if you were on the dev team , I thought you were !
as I stated today everyone here seems to know Lara's new history.
but I get it now the Lara from '98 to 2010 is dead and gone, sad really but that's the way it goes!

Gemma_Darkmoon_
9th Jul 2011, 01:46
I don't know why they keep saying this is her first adventure in TR4 she is a teenager with experienced archaeologist-adventurer Werner Von Croy.

I try to believe in as much of the combined stories of CD and Core as I can so I agree that I don't believe this to be Lara's first adventure. More that it is the fourth known after the black isle which showed Lara curiosity, the tragedy in a Peru mine and Von Croys training. Some of the stuff we saw Lara do in the trailer like the sprint move showed such athletic ability. She could have built that up with the sprint move and jumps Von Croy challenges Lara with in TR4. To me they can be continuous.


in my opinion they should have continued where UW left off starting with Alister's funeral.

CD really had to do something much more than that. The new lara is far too different now from her other incarnations but on the other hand continuing was not an option. The TRL/TRU saga had reached it's end. I do think that Alister's death should have played much more heavily in Lara's TRU motivations but there shouldn't be another game to explore that.


Dude(or duda), What's the big deal with this one then? In-game, it's her first adventure, R-E-B-O-O-T!

She hasn't met Von Croy because: a) this TR has got nothing to do with all the previous ones, b) she has Conrad.
Chill out, this is a game, a spike ran through her and she survived, big deal, if you play CoD, you get hit by 10 bullets and then die, come on!

And I don't even want to comment the rest of the post xD

Just, have some trust in CD, so what if it si a reboot, we get to REALLY know Lara this time, more than any game before. It wouldn't hurt to be a little optimistic, especially with some great footage we've seen. And still, there is plenty time to get some more news and all until fall of 2012.

I completely disagree. The term reboot can't just be used to write off everything a character is. We already have got to REALLY know Lara over the years, the many sides to her personality and all her quirkyness. I love the interplay between the elegance of her background, her adventurous sprit and all that confidence and attitude she shows.

I have played all the games but agree it isn't fair to devalue those who have joined the series more recently. However I will agree with laracrofty1's point that I too am not suddenly going to lose all the knowledge of who this girl is that has been established over all the years. I won't ever be claiming that this new Lara the one Lara and the other ones were fake or even did not happen. No way. This only works if despite the reboot word the lead character is clearly Lara croft especially in the later stages of the game. Some of the interview comments and that drab gray outfit make me doubt CD's direction a bit.

JRod108
9th Jul 2011, 12:54
just wondering since there is a demo that even interviewers have seen and some played it will it be available to download? so we can get a feel of the game, they said it's about 25 mins long, it would help a lot with doubts and such!

There's only the little demo that CD played at E3. I don't know if we'll be able to download it ever, but it does show what the first level will be like.


JRod108, I never meant any harm in asking you if you were on the dev team , I thought you were !
as I stated today everyone here seems to know Lara's new history.
but I get it now the Lara from '98 to 2010 is dead and gone, sad really but that's the way it goes!

That's the problem with text.... Misunderstandings tend to happen. :) As for the dead and gone thing, I don't think that anyone that supports the reboot believes that. CORE and Legend Lara may not star in any more games, but she can't be dead and gone unless the fandom forgets them and I don't think that will ever happen.


I try to believe in as much of the combined stories of CD and Core as I can so I agree that I don't believe this to be Lara's first adventure. More that it is the fourth known after the black isle which showed Lara curiosity, the tragedy in a Peru mine and Von Croys training. Some of the stuff we saw Lara do in the trailer like the sprint move showed such athletic ability. She could have built that up with the sprint move and jumps Von Croy challenges Lara with in TR4. To me they can be continuous.

I have to disagree. I tend to believe that CORE and Legend Lara are different from each other and are seperate, with only a handful of adventure in common. Of perhaps maybe just one, considering only TR1 was shown to be common between the two. They have very conflicting backgrounds and these Laras seem to have different motivations and modalities. Not to mention, the devs have stated more than once that this new game chronicles this new Lara's very first adventure. Just because she's athletic, doesn't mean that Von Croy taught her anything. She could have easily been on her university's gymnastic team or something.


I completely disagree. The term reboot can't just be used to write off everything a character is. We already have got to REALLY know Lara over the years, the many sides to her personality and all her quirkyness. I love the interplay between the elegance of her background, her adventurous sprit and all that confidence and attitude she shows.

I agree that the term reboot doesn't mean that the character has to start from scratch again, but in this case, I think it does. Besides no one is writing off Lara. Just her past. I don't believe for a minute that Lara's adventures make her who she is. Really, the adventures only seem to show us snippets of Lara's life, but none seem to impact directly to character development except perhaps Anniversary. You seem to believe that we can't have the Lara you described, but I disagree. Just because Lara's past has changed, doesn't mean that we won't get a strong, independent woman with the elegant background that you have laid out.


I have played all the games but agree it isn't fair to devalue those who have joined the series more recently. However I will agree with laracrofty1's point that I too am not suddenly going to lose all the knowledge of who this girl is that has been established over all the years. I won't ever be claiming that this new Lara the one Lara and the other ones were fake or even did not happen. No way. This only works if despite the reboot word the lead character is clearly Lara croft especially in the later stages of the game. Some of the interview comments and that drab gray outfit make me doubt CD's direction a bit.

I can't say that I particularly like or even understand these statements of "forgetting Lara" and "denying the other Laras didn't happen." No one is doing this. That can't be a valid point if it isn't happening. Personally, I've already accepted and believed that there are two Laras. Both are true and both are Lara. Just different renditions. This new Lara will only only be added to my list of Laras. I think this is what other forum members are doing as well. No one has forgotten CORE Lara just because CD came up with Legend Lara. Indeed, some members, like you, have just melded the two together. (Not that I'm saying your wrong, I just believe differently on the matter.) So, obviously no one forgot the original Lara when CD first rebooted the series. Who says this time will be different? As for denying the other Lara's, no one does that with CORE or Legend Lara, so it come down to the same question: why do people believe this is happening when it isn't?

laracrofty1
9th Jul 2011, 13:50
Guys, thought you would like these links, these are fab, cheers Mary:)

http://www.gunsandgrapple.com/2011/06/article-closer-look-at-tomb-raider-pre.html

http://www.gunsandgrapple.com/2011/05/article-endurance.html

d1n0_xD
9th Jul 2011, 13:55
I can't say that I particularly like or even understand these statements of "forgetting Lara" and "denying the other Laras didn't happen." No one is doing this. That can't be a valid point if it isn't happening. Personally, I've already accepted and believed that there are two Laras. Both are true and both are Lara. Just different renditions. This new Lara will only only be added to my list of Laras. I think this is what other forum members are doing as well. No one has forgotten CORE Lara just because CD came up with Legend Lara. Indeed, some members, like you, have just melded the two together. (Not that I'm saying your wrong, I just believe differently on the matter.) So, obviously no one forgot the original Lara when CD first rebooted the series. Who says this time will be different? As for denying the other Lara's, no one does that with CORE or Legend Lara, so it come down to the same question: why do people believe this is happening when it isn't?

My thoughts and point exactly! :thumb:
That's kinda what I wanted to tell laracrofty1, but my words didn't come out right. :p No harsh feelings, mate ^^

laracrofty1
9th Jul 2011, 14:26
Hi Driber, you will more than likely have to edit me again, if I go into multiple quotes for some reason I'm logged out so sorry about that!:)

to Jrod108, thanks, and yes you are so right text is such are hard thing to interpret if you use uppercase or Caps your told your shouting yet you might not be. but your right about what I said about Lara being dead, or course she's not, just feeling a little upset about it all but at the same time excited too ! when I saw the ships name it rang a bell with me so click on the links I gave some exciting reading there. also when I saw the ship and the fact that the game is due out in 2012 I was thinking Titanic since it will be 100 years next year but the link gives more insight into the name of the ship and what happened to the crew!

To D1n0 XD, thanks so much, I felt really bad over calling you that, your more than likely a better player than I am, so no harsh feelings at all, you have made my day!:wave::flowers: by the way my Name is Mary the Laracrofty1 is my gamertag for xbox, cheers Mary

Driber
9th Jul 2011, 14:34
Hi Driber, you will more than likely have to edit me again, if I go into multiple quotes for some reason I'm logged out so sorry about that!:)

We have a special button for multiquoting at the bottom of every post —————————————————————▼

Just click on it at every post you wish to reply to and then as last click on POST REPLY.

Andy64
10th Jul 2011, 02:26
Not to mention, the devs have stated more than once that this new game chronicles this new Lara's very first adventure. Just because she's athletic, doesn't mean that Von Croy taught her anything. She could have easily been on her university's gymnastic team or something.

I agree that the term reboot doesn't mean that the character has to start from scratch again, but in this case, I think it does. Besides no one is writing off Lara. Just her past. I don't believe for a minute that Lara's adventures make her who she is. Really, the adventures only seem to show us snippets of Lara's life.

You are right that there is only a few snippets of Lara's history (particually at a younger age) so it would take very little to keep continuity. Maybe the term 'adventure' was being more loosely by the devs with things like Amanda's dissapearance classified at a level under a full adventure. It could instead be be that they haven't played chronicles in far too long. Perhaps the whole first adventure thing seems more a bold statement like stating TRA was Lara's first human kill or calling this game the same title as the original. To be taken with a pinch of salt.


I can't say that I particularly like or even understand these statements of "forgetting Lara" and "denying the other Laras didn't happen." No one is doing this.

You claim events in Lara's life like Von Croy never happened. A small detail but when you claim none of Lara's history happened with this new girl is like doing the things in your quote. I don't think that all Lara's past can suddenly be gone or smudged out. The new Lara seems a Kate Austen/ Lara Croft fusion. Is a great combination but sadly just not fully Lara - Too much divergance overall. She doesn't seem a plausable younger version of the same girl of past games and movies in any of physical form, history, attitude and voice. Not to say they need be identical but even the term reboot doesn't seem to meld this vast difference gap. We shouldn't get a Lara in nothing but name however the game informer interviews suggests we will. Fingers crossed that does not come to pass.

I naturally find myself calling this incarnation 'new girl', 'new Lara' and similar things so it is clear I don't see her as Lara. Hope that will change as we see more of her. Could have been great if they stuck a little closer with Lara and let the shift in game genre lead the reboot. I do like survival horror and open world so there will be things to look forward to even if the Lara side of it less so.

JRod108
10th Jul 2011, 04:33
You are right that there is only a few snippets of Lara's history (particually at a younger age) so it would take very little to keep continuity. Maybe the term 'adventure' was being more loosely by the devs with things like Amanda's dissapearance classified at a level under a full adventure. It could instead be be that they haven't played chronicles in far too long. Perhaps the whole first adventure thing seems more a bold statement like stating TRA was Lara's first human kill or calling this game the same title as the original. To be taken with a pinch of salt.

You're in denial. And you're not the only one. Now, don't read that and get upset, I don't mean this in an insulting manner. However, I'll elaborate on this in a bit.... First off, the devs have said that this is Survivor Lara's very first adventure. I don't how else to take that. There is no way that I can find a "but" or "maybe this happened" or whatever you guys are seeing in this. I'm truly asking this: how can y'all find anyhing else in the words "very first adventure?" I truly don't think there is anything to be taken with a pinch of salt here. There aren't any riddles or tricks, CD has just taken this series as their own.


You claim events in Lara's life like Von Croy never happened. A small detail but when you claim none of Lara's history happened with this new girl is like doing the things in your quote. I don't think that all Lara's past can suddenly be gone or smudged out. The new Lara seems a Kate Austen/ Lara Croft fusion. Is a great combination but sadly just not fully Lara - Too much divergance overall. She doesn't seem a plausable younger version of the same girl of past games and movies in any of physical form, history, attitude and voice. Not to say they need be identical but even the term reboot doesn't seem to meld this vast difference gap. We shouldn't get a Lara in nothing but name however the game informer interviews suggests we will. Fingers crossed that does not come to pass.

Okay, here's where I got a little irritated. I'm not "claiming" anything. I'm quite literally repeating what I've been told. That this is a new Lara and not to expect her to be like the old one. I feel like I'm one of the few people that have actually watched the interviews where CD laid all this out. They're there, in the media thread and the YouTube side bar for similar videos. Never once does anyone speaking in them indicate that this Lara has gone through any adventure, deadly field trip, or dangerous excursion. They've started over.

Now then, considering I've outlined that I'm not "claiming" anything, let's move on to how on earth my acceptance of the new Lara has automatically translated to my apparent forgetting and denial of both the other Laras. That makes no sense. Have I given any sort of indication that this new, shiny Lara has so enamoured me that my brain has been completely purged of all knowledge of the other Laras? Have I denied their existence? The answer can be found in my past posts. Not only have I referred to both, but I've defended them. All of them are Lara. None of them are forgotten and all of them are canon. I'm not trying to be rude, but I feel I must be as blunt as possible to get my point across. I've been repeating this argument for some time now and I'm sorry you had to be the one to field my impatience....


I naturally find myself calling this incarnation 'new girl', 'new Lara' and similar things so it is clear I don't see her as Lara. Hope that will change as we see more of her. Could have been great if they stuck a little closer with Lara and let the shift in game genre lead the reboot. I do like survival horror and open world so there will be things to look forward to even if the Lara side of it less so.

I feel this is too early for people to be judging Survival Lara. We've seen what? Five minutes of her characterization? We need to remember that this is her first adventure. We have seen what she is in the beginning of a terrible ordeal, not who she ultimately is.

Alright, time to bring this full circle. This denial that I've referred to stems from fear. I think some of you are afraid. This isn't a bad thing, I think it's commendable. Obviously, those I'm referring to care about this game or you all wouldn't be so frightened of this new direction and there is a lot to fear here. Is this game going to be good? Will it be the death of the series? Will people take to it? All of this is something to worry about, but don't take this concern and spread doom prophesies all over the forum that claim that the fandom is forgetting the past Laras. Or that we're denying them or favoring this one above the past two. It's not happening. No one has said any of these things and I think some of you are looking too hard for signs of this that just aren't there. Many of us have known Lara for what? Fourteen, fifteen years now? Why on earth would we abandon her now just because we have a new rendition of her? If anything, I think we should be happy that we get to see a side of her that has never been shown before.

sierra xb
10th Jul 2011, 05:11
yeah, what JRod said. I can also appreciate people's concern for what this rebooted Lara will be like. I am not really familiar with CORE Lara...I came into the game with Legend, so CD Lara is the one I know well. I am just as concerned that the Lara we all love is retained as much as possible, but I am not opposed to changes that may, in fact, make her even better than before, while still retaining the essence of Lara. The big point is this...95% of what we are doing in here is speculation and wishful thinking. We have been exposed to a trailer, some concept art, a very short list of "definite" items to be included, and two versions of gameplay of the FIRST segment of the new game, which might even get revised before we see the final version, and we still have at least a year more to go. This game will obviously not be rushed, as Underworld was, and that demonstrates to me that Crystal is committed to giving the fans a well-made game.

I personally think that people are getting too hung up on trying to retain ALL of the features and past about Lara that we are used to seeing. With the transfer from Core to CD, we already saw a revision to Lara's history, and that didn't seem to bother people too much. I am sure that her new backstory will retain all of the critical elements that will be needed to maintain her integrity as a character. Will Von Croy, Curtis, Natla and Amanda show up in her rebooted future? Maybe so, maybe not...is it really that important? And even if they do, they do NOT need to be part of this one...this first installment should be 100% Lara.

d1n0_xD
10th Jul 2011, 05:29
I should be just quoting what JRod said, I mean, every single word! :thumb: You said what I'm trying to say all this time ^^ Every single bit :D

Elliot Kane
10th Jul 2011, 09:43
I agree with JRod, too. That's a pretty good summation of the entire matter, from my POV.

I came pretty late to computer gaming, and when I went into a computer game shop for the first time and looked at the mass of bewildering titles with no idea at all of what I was looking at, one game stood out amongst the bewilderment, and that was Tomb Raider - because I'd actually heard of it!

I had no idea whatsoever to expect, as I'd never seen anything like it, but I had to start somewhere...

It was literally the first game I ever selected for myself, and it blew me away. You can imagine how special this makes Lara and the Tomb Raider games in my eyes.

We've spent many happy hours together, Lara and I. From the heights of TR1 & 2, to the disappointment of 3, to TR4, which is arguably the best in series even now and certainly has the strongest storyline and some of the best game play. Chronicles was up and down, some good and some bad, then came the all time low Angel Of Darkness, which blew me away graphically but simply blew in every other way imaginable. Legend, short but sweet, put the series back on track. Anniversary with its very good and very bad all in one. And, at last, Underworld, which is the finest of the CD games to date and puts a fitting capstone to the first CD era.

There is no single character in gaming I care about more than Lara.

So why am I less worried by the reboot than some of you? Because Lara's fans literally cannot lose. If the reboot works out, it'll be because the game is superb and 'New Lara' is on a whole new level of awesome. If the reboot fails, the next TR will be back to... Well, I'd say 'Old Lara', but there's been a few Lara's already, haven't there? Let's say her old, patched and frequently changed background will doubtless get patched again...

But really, where is there to take the series after Underworld?

The world of gaming has moved on since TR1 was released. Characters in newer games have complex motivations, supporting cast, reasons for what they do that go far beyond 'I get my kicks by raiding tombs'. The TR games once stood at the very cutting edge of innovation in terms of character and characterisation, but now they are fallen far behind.

Given the choice between continuing to tread the same old safe path while falling foul of the law of diminishing returns or diving headlong into the unknown, which would Lara choose? Sucker bet, right?

All franchises that go on long enough reinvent themselves, sooner or later. They have to. It's either that or fall into the dust of history.

I dunno about you, guys & gals, but I'd rather not see Lara drift off into oblivion just yet...

Gemma_Darkmoon_
10th Jul 2011, 18:01
First off, the devs have said that this is Survivor Lara's very first adventure. I don't how else to take that. There is no way that I can find a "but" or "maybe this happened" or whatever you guys are seeing in this. I'm truly asking this: how can y'all find anyhing else in the words "very first adventure?" I truly don't think there is anything to be taken with a pinch of salt here. There aren't any riddles or tricks, CD has just taken this series as their own.

Get out a copy of TRLR, TRC or TRL and what do you find? A Lara under 21 going on an adventure. How do explain that? Therefore either the CD statement is incorrect or incomplete or we have a multiple universes continuity error. The only plausable way to avoid multiple universes is to accept that Von Croy/Black isle and this adventure happened to the same girl. Why are you so against that? Why is that not a viable option? One phrase from CD doesn't make all those adventures in Lara's timeline suddenly gone. You can't really argue that this Lara can be cannon and argue multiple universes ideas too. That is why people are coming up with theories that connect this and the other Lara's solving the problems but all you want to do is dismiss them. Tell me that Lara's history should be sacrificed for evolution if you want but don't tell me a history anomaly doesn't exist with this reboot.


That this is a new Lara and not to expect her to be like the old one.

She has time over the course of the game to grow into Lara but that is exactly what I hope they will do. If the game is complete and little trace of the Lara from other games is present then for me that is where it's no good.


I think some of you are afraid. This isn't a bad thing, I think it's commendable. Obviously, those I'm referring to care about this game or you all wouldn't be so frightened of this new direction and there is a lot to fear here. Is this game going to be good? Will it be the death of the series? Will people take to it? All of this is something to worry about, but don't take this concern and spread doom prophesies all over the forum that claim that the fandom is forgetting the past Laras.

If you go across the threads of the forum you can see how large the difference between this Lara and her prior incarnations is a concern for a lot of fans. Just because you don't share that view doesn't mean that our concerns should be dissmissed. I think with the Lost idea behind it this game is going to be the first of CD's games to put TR back on the map in a big way. I do have a genuine concern not as to the success of this game (as i know it will do well) but that within the next 5 years we will end up with a lead character who is no longer resembalent as Lara. I would find that so upsetting to see. Now is the time to speak up and say that before they change her away from Lara even more.


Given the choice between continuing to tread the same old safe path while falling foul of the law of diminishing returns or diving headlong into the unknown, which would Lara choose? Sucker bet, right?

All franchises that go on long enough reinvent themselves, sooner or later. They have to. It's either that or fall into the dust of history.

I think everyone accepts that there was need for a reboot. I have heard almost zero complaints on the horror/survival or M-rating changes. Is only the scale of the changes to Lara that seem more contested.

Elliot Kane
10th Jul 2011, 18:21
I think that's the part we all care about most, Gemma, yes. The split in opinion seems to be between those who think Lara's past adventures are a vital part of who she is, and those who think her personality is all that really matters.

Personally, I think her past is so incoherent as it now stands that a complete start over is a good idea, but I know that other fans disagree.

All of us want what we honestly believe to be the best for Lara and the TR series. We just have different ideas on what that may be.

Driber
10th Jul 2011, 19:31
< a big long text >

I also agree. I believe a lot of this heavy debating of Lara's past stems from fear of change.

Change is often perceived as a very strong negative emotion. I think that those who dislike the idea of multiple universes, they will be better off in the end if they just accept it now that everything we know about Lara could change in future games, rather than try to fight it.


Get out a copy of TRLR, TRC or TRL and what do you find? A Lara under 21 going on an adventure. How do explain that? Therefore either the CD statement is incorrect or incomplete or we have a multiple universes continuity error.

There is no error; this new game will obviously happen in a different universe.

When the story of TR9 is that it's "Lara's very first adventure", then logic dictates that in TR9's universe, TR4 (Lara's first adventure at age 16) has never happened, plain and simple.

sierra xb
10th Jul 2011, 22:23
i don't know if anyone read it, but I made a post on another thread with a reference to the new Star Trek movie that came out a year or so ago, and about how that was a perfect example of what will happen with TR. That was essentially a reboot of the entire Star Trek universe, which probably has a MUCH bigger following than even TR and Lara Croft. Prior to it's release, the same exact concerns were brought up regarding character development and the ST history. So many people were concerned that a new Kirk, Spock, McCoy, etc. starting over from the very beginning would destroy everything they had come to know about Star Trek. Everyone wanted to know if they would include Khan and many of the iconic characters that they had encountered over the years. Lots of people wanted the new crew to be a repeat of the old crew and do the same things as the old crew. Want to know what heppened....?

Except to maybe the biggest hard-core trekkers (and even many of them came around), the movie was a success. In the end, when people actually got to see how the reboot was handled, they were perfectly fine with the new actors playing the old characters. They had no problems with the revised backstories, or with the possible direction that the series could take now that they had a clean slate to work with. Will they bring back some of the famous friends and adversaries? it is certainly possible, but not necessary. The ST reboot started what ammounts to an entirely new timeline, so now anything is possible.

I see that this is the same thing that will happen with the new TR and Lara Croft. I can see wanting to bring in all of the classic TR characters in the future, but why is it so important that it be done in the reboot game? Why is is such a huge point of dissention when a second new Lara game is possibly 5 years away, which is likely the earliest time that CD can even think about reintroducing old characters? I say let this first new game be ALL about Lara, and concentrate on her development into the sexy, kick a$$ heroine that we all expect from her.

WinterSoldierLTE
10th Jul 2011, 23:01
Well, if CD wants to erase the Ireland missions from "Chronicles" from Lara's past, I certainly won't try and stop them.

Andy64
11th Jul 2011, 01:35
I also agree. I believe a lot of this heavy debating of Lara's past stems from fear of change. Change is often perceived as a very strong negative emotion. I think that those who dislike the idea of multiple universes, they will be better off in the end if they just accept it now that everything we know about Lara could change in future games, rather than try to fight it.

I would more percieve it as protecting Lara's identity, customs and heritage but fear of change is one way you could put it. A Lara in nothing but name is though something I fear.

Everything Lara has indeed become so much more malleable now and open to more big change. Stating where you want Lara to go now is more important than ever. In my case it is more towards the roots of the series. I know a massive reverse won't happen - the momentum has already started. Still there is a chance to discourage future change or get small tokens of traditionalism thrown in to the game like duel pistols, classic outfits or old music etc. That sort of thing would make the game for me even if others would deem it irrational nostalgia.

Besides standing up for what you believe in despite overwhelming odds is a part of Lara ethos. For me that is a Lara that still shows similarity to series roots. I am used to being disagreed with on here (though today was very heavy for this forum). I don't want others who have doubts on the reboot to feel prevented from saying how they feel. Contrasting oppinions make for better debate.


Logic dictates that in TR9's universe, TR4 (Lara's first adventure at age 16) has never happened, plain and simple.

Technically the Core story has the black isle as Lara's first adventure.... Must stop winding up mods.


I say let this first new game be ALL about Lara, and concentrate on her development into the sexy, kick a$$ heroine that we all expect from her.

You are right that Lara's development is central to this game. A 'sexy, kick a$$ heroine' is just what I want to see in the long term (not at the start of this game but in the next games). That is though where one of main concerns spans from. In the game informer interview Brian Horton speaks out heavily against Lara's sex appeal, the concept of outfits and the idea of Lara being strong and 'kick a$$'. Those are all things I think need to be kept long term - not removed. That and the concept art are what really initially seeded my doubts on the reboot. The trailer itself wasn't so bad minus the screaming.

Driber
11th Jul 2011, 20:08
Hehe, don't worry, you're not winding me up.


I don't want others who have doubts on the reboot to feel prevented from saying how they feel.

Neither would I.

I'd never discourage a healthy, civilized debate :)

Andy64
12th Jul 2011, 00:28
Just love this forum. I don't know any other forum where there are such different oppinions and such reasonable civilised debate. Is a great community.

Glad to hear the review from the telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8625023/Tomb-Raider-preview.html) . Seems the gameplay and atmosphere get thumbs up:D. Not to spoil from those who don't want it but the QTE death scene described sounds exciting.

Elliot Kane
12th Jul 2011, 01:07
Just love this forum. I don't know any other forum where there are such different oppinions and such reasonable civilised debate. Is a great community.

Larian forum has a similar vibe, as does my own. but putting it mildly, a good community like this is rare, yes :)

sierra xb
12th Jul 2011, 03:35
Larian forum has a similar vibe, as does my own. but putting it mildly, a good community like this is rare, yes :)

That is so true. I am a member in several other forums (mostly non-game realted), and you should see some of the comments that are made when someone dissagrees with another persons opinion...the flame-fests start and then it's on to the personal insults. It makes me glad that those people aren't in the same room with eachother.

Cheeky_Charlie
12th Jul 2011, 06:02
I still don´t get why the "moaning" pisses people off? I think it suits with the enviroment and situtation.

Ants_27_
12th Jul 2011, 06:44
It just starts to grate on your nerves after a while.

WinterSoldierLTE
12th Jul 2011, 09:51
That is so true. I am a member in several other forums (mostly non-game realted), and you should see some of the comments that are made when someone dissagrees with another persons opinion...the flame-fests start and then it's on to the personal insults. It makes me glad that those people aren't in the same room with eachother.

If they were in the same room, I'd be willing to bet that everyone would be civilized and just nod along, then talk smack when one person leaves the room. One thing I've learned over the years is that the annonimity of sitting behind a computer brings out the "tough guy" in alot of people.

Ants_27_
12th Jul 2011, 09:57
This is true. I suppose it's pretty respectable to some extent, especially if you're from a family or a group of friends that may or may not appropriate your opinion.

Though, that said, there are forums that bring out the 'tough guy', my opinion is better than yours and is something that gets annoying real quick. I only really apart of this forum (used to be part of others years ago but obviously I have my real life which I'm happy with, but it's great to have a place that you can discuss things you like (especially, like me if you don't have any mates that like a particular thing that I do). But there's isn;t a need for the 'Tough Guy' that people put across.

Driber
12th Jul 2011, 09:58
^ You took the words right out of my mouth there, Wintersoldier!

I guess it's human nature to make others believe what you believe, though. That's why we have so many religions and wars.

jtr7
12th Jul 2011, 10:10
I find that online I can get all my words out without being interrupted, unlike in real life, where the other persons may just stop listening, or start talking over me, and it's unnatural to keep talking to the end of the thought to a silent space or for the other persons to wait politely. There is no more civility in person, just hundreds more ways to communicate apathy or shut another person down without anyone being heard. Online, misunderstanding is just as high, but for lack of tone, emphasis, body language, non-verbal sounds, and facial expressions, even though sentences and paragraphs can be delivered whole. For me, I don't do the tough guy crap any more or less, but it's the only scenario for whole thoughts to get out, so I take advantage of the medium, knowing I may be ignored anyway, where in person, it's a damned fight to get whole thoughts out all at once successfully. In text, it can be reviewed and missed bits can be noticed, whereas in person, the recipient can only review what they remember, unless they have a recording, regardless of how much they heard, which is not 100% if they don't care.


I also have a problem with people who push big buttons and then talk about civility. The "fear of change" argument is old, cliche, and extremely biased, and conveniently does not address the majority view against bad change and acceptable good change, which is entirely relatable and understood by all.

laracrofty1
12th Jul 2011, 11:23
Hi Guys,
I just get such a kick out of this forum, it lights up like a Christmas tree when someone says they have doubts about the game!
But I have to agree with Andy64 when he says that we all have a right to our opinion or something along does lines.
Driber multiquote will not work for me so everyone please forgive me if some of your statements are not written as Verbatim !

to Andy64 thanks for that link, I enjoyed reading it, because when I heard about a lone wolf well I thought that can't be right since wolves run in pairs or packs and also mate for life!
so now I am thinking since reading the article - that maybe the wolf or creature is a darker force on the island a bit like in the movie "The never ending story" where the so called wolf was despair and doubt and was killing off the imagination of children.
but from what we have seen of the trailer and the demo, it is obvious that Lara is on an island with inhabitants that feel that their need to survive is to appease some god like thing and the sacrifice of people washed up on to the island is their only way to do so.


one of my main concerns about the game was when I heard it was being compared to the TV series Lost, well lets face it that was one bummer so lets hope it's not because if it is then Lara is dead ! ( this is going by the show lost)
I suppose in the era that we are living in with a world recession the idea of survival is a good one, because we are all trying to do that now, but I don't want "Tomb Raider" to become an adventure/horror game either.
and what gets to me too is the fact that all interviewers have seen the many gory deaths of Lara so why can't we? I'm not into gore but if it is part of the game then show it, after all regardless of what rating will be on the game kids will still play it, I know of kids as young a 8 that play "Hitman" and " Grand theft Auto", I do not agree with it but it's up to their parents to monitor what they look at.
I have no problem with the moaning or Lara talking to herself some have because we never heard that before, but I do have a problem with the voice sorry but I do.

To Sierra xb, I am so glad that you brought up the subject of the reboot of "Star Trek", frankly that didn't bother me because I only like the original one , I was a child of the '70's and it was a regular weekly TV spot and I loved it. a bit like "Star Wars", the original 3 to me are the only ones worth watching and the mystery of how dart Vader became who he was let your imagination to the work - if you get my drift?

The reason I mention what Sierra xb said is to maybe put yet another spanner in the works- lets take another well known hero, he has being going on for decades now, first in books , then movies, and now games, we know nothing of his history ( I stand to be corrected here since I have never read the books) but he is accepted as who he is and what he is and that hero is 007 or James Bond, now just stop and think, what if a 21 year old James washed up on a island just like Lara has - a total greenhorn, knew nothing and so forth how many of his fans would feel cheated or let down over it? just a thought and a good point I think!
of course the main difference is that James Bond was written first, Lara was not that is a pity, because if she had been written her history could not change.
just something to ponder over, looking forward to the Christmas tree lighting up,
hugs to all
Mary:wave:

Elliot Kane
12th Jul 2011, 12:00
I think we're pretty much all on the same page when it comes to forums, guys & gals. I can't even count the number I have NOT joined because they had such a toxic atmosphere. Being an inveterate debater, I love it when there are differences of opinion, but at the same time I like seeing reasoned arguments, not a rapid descent into insults and cat calling.

It's always a really great thing to me to find a new forum with a genuine sense of community :)

***

On the 'fear of change' debate, I think it would be fairer to call it a 'fear of loss', really. It's like when the company making your favourite drink or snack or whatever announces they have a 'great new formula' for it. You know you like the old version, but there's no guarantee you'll like the new, so obviously you're worried as the drink/snack/whatever is a major plus in your life and you don't want it taken away.

I think that's completely understandable. I am sure we all have it, to some extent. The difference between us right now, IMO, is how we are reacting to that fear, not whether we feel it or not.

We may not be on the same page, but we ARE on the same side :)

Gemma_Darkmoon_
12th Jul 2011, 22:18
One of my main concerns about the game was when I heard it was being compared to the TV series Lost, well lets face it that was one bummer so lets hope it's not because if it is then Lara is dead !

There clearly is a huge influence from Lost in the creation of this game. You can't deny that but it doesn't have to a bad thing. The idea of survival and the island is a very good one really right on trend. By the time this game comes out it will have been a few years since the final series of Lost. People will be missing the show and with Lost having such a big following could be a reason for a lot of people to try TR for the first time. That being said just making a copy of Lost and putting Lara in it would get our series called a rip-off. CD have to stamp the TR identity heavily on it and am interested to see how they do it. The comparision Andy64 made of Lara and Kate is perhaps more worrying and I can see it a bit with the outfit. Keeping Lara's identity is essential. The reboot has to be some Lost idea's brought to TR not Lara and TR shifted to be just like Lost.


I have no problem with the moaning or Lara talking to herself some have because we never heard that before, but I do have a problem with the voice sorry but I do.

Now just stop and think, what if a 21 year old James washed up on a island just like Lara has

The moaning is sure to annoy some players so would better to reduce it's use. I never liked lara talking to camera and herself in TRU and her new voice I am not keen on.

When I think of James Bond I think of that cool attitude, tuxedo, bond girls... Even if it were a young James Bond people would want to see some of that. Same with Lara's signitures be that duel pistols, large breasts, adventurer attitude, classic outfit etc. Not all are needed but a couple would really help give the TR stamp. I would love to see those ugly cargo pants torn to shorts and 2 pistols washed on to the shore near the end of the game (or post game cheat mode).


It's always a really great thing to me to find a new forum with a genuine sense of community :)

On the 'fear of change' debate, I think it would be fairer to call it a 'fear of loss', really. It's like when the company making your favourite drink or snack or whatever announces they have a 'great new formula' for it. You know you like the old version, but there's no guarantee you'll like the new, so obviously you're worried as the drink/snack/whatever is a major plus in your life and you don't want it taken away.

Absolutely agree with both points.

sierra xb
13th Jul 2011, 01:53
[QUOTE=GemmaDarkmoon;1633713]
I would love to see those ugly cargo pants torn to shorts and 2 pistols washed on to the shore near the end of the game (or post game cheat mode).QUOTE]

You know, that would actually be a cool idea, that way there would be at least a couple of iconic details that would tie into her past. Have Lara ditch the shredded pant legs somewhere in the game, give her shirt a teal color (a la Classic) that shows through the dirt, and have her find a box containing a pair of HK USP pistols right near the end of the game. That could be a defining moment for her survival story and give the guns a sentimental value to her...kind of like the "Lara's Island Survival" merit badge :)

IvanaKC
13th Jul 2011, 07:48
I would love to see those ugly cargo pants torn to shorts and 2 pistols washed on to the shore near the end of the game (or post game cheat mode).



We should definitely add that to the official wishlist. :cool:

Andy64
13th Jul 2011, 14:42
I would love to see those ugly cargo pants torn to shorts and 2 pistols washed on to the shore near the end of the game (or post game cheat mode).

I third that one. I would vote for that if it were on the list

Cheeky_Charlie
15th Jul 2011, 11:47
It just starts to grate on your nerves after a while.

Stop watching the demo all the time then ;)

sierra xb
18th Jul 2011, 03:45
Stop watching the demo all the time then ;)

can't stop watching the demo...it is all we have until next year, or until CD decides to release something else

laracrofty1
20th Jul 2011, 11:00
...it is all we have until next year,

Yes Sierra xb, I agree, such a pity it didn't come out this year as it was supposed to. I just hope that by the time it does come out our PCs and consoles are able for the graphics that's a big worry for me.
love your idea of the necklace by the way!:wave:

LadyRufina
20th Jul 2011, 15:53
I like the survival instinct as long as it's optional, sometimes in underworld i got stuck and didn't know what to do for a while with only a little hint from Lara. Also the quick-time events should give the game a bit of a kick as long as they are versatile and interesting and not just there to make the game longer. Overall I am happy with these things as long as they don't occur too often or too vivid.

sierra xb
20th Jul 2011, 16:07
I like the survival instinct as long as it's optional, sometimes in underworld i got stuck and didn't know what to do for a while with only a little hint from Lara. Also the quick-time events should give the game a bit of a kick as long as they are versatile and interesting and not just there to make the game longer. Overall I am happy with these things as long as they don't occur too often or too vivid.

I totally agree. I have always hated not being able to deactivate the hint system in some of the previous games (ie. Legend), although like many on here, I don't mind having it as a option IF and when you decide that you need it. I had that same problem with Underworld, but then again, having to spend time figuring out what to do is an essential part of the TR experience, so I absolutely have no issues with parts of the game being difficult.

A bit of an example...I have also played the Onimusha series games for the PS2 because of the Tomb Raider'esque puzzles that you have to work through, and those games give you almost no hints at all...it's basically all trial and error there, and that never bothered me because it enhanced the gameplay. In real life, you don't get "hints", so if the new TR is going to be realistic, I don't really want hints in this one, unless i have the option of turning them on and off..

LadyRufina
20th Jul 2011, 22:35
I totally agree. I have always hated not being able to deactivate the hint system in some of the previous games (ie. Legend), although like many on here, I don't mind having it as a option IF and when you decide that you need it. I had that same problem with Underworld, but then again, having to spend time figuring out what to do is an essential part of the TR experience, so I absolutely have no issues with parts of the game being difficult.

A bit of an example...I have also played the Onimusha series games for the PS2 because of the Tomb Raider'esque puzzles that you have to work through, and those games give you almost no hints at all...it's basically all trial and error there, and that never bothered me because it enhanced the gameplay. In real life, you don't get "hints", so if the new TR is going to be realistic, I don't really want hints in this one, unless i have the option of turning them on and off..

I guess you're right sierra. It's also what makes the game more fulfilling when you complete a particular bit on your own without any help. Like when I did the first bit where you have to put all the open eyes in the middle of the doorway in Underworld on my own, i felt really clever lol :D

laracrofty1
23rd Jul 2011, 12:59
Like when I did the first bit where you have to put all the open eyes in the middle of the doorway in Underworld on my own, i felt really clever lol :D

Hi LadyRufina:wave:, what part of UW was that in ?
is that included on PS2 game? just wondering since I only have the PC & xBox 360 versions and never came across it, it sounds interesting.
I have watched some of the PS2 walkthroughs on YouTube and the game looked so different compared to other platforms - the main reason I did this was so many people where saying they felt somewhat cheated with game play and graphics when it came to the PS game, I was amazed at how dead & easy the southern Mexico part looked too. what I mean by easy is with the platforms I use if you turn right at one point you get the serpent bug so you have to start the level again from what I saw with PS you could only go one way!

I would never have gone with xbox 360 only I wanted the 2 other parts of UW so I bought the console - LOL now how sad is that?:group_hug:

LadyRufina
23rd Jul 2011, 17:19
Lol. That part is right at the beginning in the andaman ocean where she finds those little wheel things and sticks them in the holes in the big doorway then she has to rotate the wheels until all the open eyes are in the middle and then the door opens. I don't know how to explain it very well but you might now already and im just rambling lol.

laracrofty1
24th Jul 2011, 13:35
Lol. That part is right at the beginning in the andaman ocean where she finds those little wheel things and sticks them in the holes in the big doorway then she has to rotate the wheels until all the open eyes are in the middle and then the door opens. I don't know how to explain it very well but you might now already and im just rambling lol.

Yes I know what your talking about now the gold discs on the path to Avalon
never really noticed them as eyes- good call:thumb:
http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo19/bonniebluebaby/57f5d311.png

LadyHorus
25th Jul 2011, 03:22
I think if they got rid of most of the QTE stuff (God I seriously hated the climb up the tunnel in the extended demo they did at E3, spoke too much Legend to me) it would be near perfect. From what I've seen about the demo they did behind closed doors, there wasn't as much QTE stuff involved, and there's more opportunity for free roaming on the map. Though I think they really need to quit with so many obvious hints about the path to go. Like the original games I just want to be given an area to explore with no really obvious hints (whether it be white ledges, lamps, or wolves popping up from time to time lol).

Subtle hints like the classics were always fun to stumble upon. Some even completely relied on clever use of texturing on the walls and stuff, you had to really know what to look for. Something that comes to mind like that is an underwater labyrinth that was featured in TR4. All you really had to go on through all the off shooting tunnels was some Egyptian symbols on the walls. At one point in a previous area you find a small note explaining Egyptian hieroglyphs and in a way it's a hint in and of itself but, nothing in the classics was ever extremely in your face telling you where to go. It was always about exploration, trial and error, and being really observant/clever. Which is something I'm desperate to see in a Tomb Raider game again.

As I've said quite a lot on the tombraiderforums.com as well, this new game has so much potential to really be amazing that I'm really hopeful. It's the first time I've really been hyped about a TR since AOD lol. I know Crystal is more than capable of making a wonderful gaming experience, I just hope they truly will put everything they have into this one.

Driber
25th Jul 2011, 12:30
^ You got some pretty strong opinions on hints and QTE there, LadyHorus.

I don't quite understand how you can "hate" that climbing scene from just watching a video and not even having played it yourself :scratch:

Having said that, perhaps you should consider casting your votes in the official wishlist thread, to convey your thoughts to the developers ;)

VOLCOM20lovesLARA
29th Jul 2011, 15:11
Or you could just not buy it :p...nah thats treason, you can't not buy it

it looks promising im hoping its going to have some innovative ideas too it and not so much copy and paste from say AC, UC, that line, my only peeve with it so far is the constant moaning and grunting i think that needs to be taking down a notch


i could not agree more! there is by far too much moaning in the demo.
i mean, honestly. i know Lara is new to being on expeditions in this
game, but she definitely should only moan when she is in deep agony.