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ZakKa89
10th May 2011, 18:27
O jolly first thread is mine :rasp:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/05/10/hitman-absolution-preview/

According to this article Hitman 5 will be “familiar but significantly different…”

So let's not waste any time and start a discussion shall we? What change would be good for Hitman in your opinion? And what would be bad?

In my opinion I wouldn't want another cover based shooter. A better story however, would be a good 'change'.

So let's go! :cool:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/apr/hitmana.jpg

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 18:49
I'm putting a hit on that yellow smiley over there ...

Back on topic ...
A good story would be a good change ? that's like saying that Hitman games never had a good story to back the gameplay up before ! ...

Oh alright maybe yes , the narrative style might need a bit of improvement , but the story themselves were fairly decent for a game whose protagonist slowly stops questionning his lack of humanity when he sees that the world is just made out of greed and other twisting thoughts , in which case it's not worth much for a clone to be 'human' after all ...

Anywya , like i said in another thread , if Absolution is to Hitman like what Conviction was to Splinter Cell ... ... ... well , i'll still be curious to see the result , but let's keep Hitman as a stealth game , with the shooting aspect as a optional and non-mandatory resort (except for the final level , i suppose) ...

123
10th May 2011, 18:57
They shouldn't change the game so much, but improve on it and add more gameplay layers. It gotta be a upgrade I've played some games that call their selfs making the game better and end up messing it up by removing things.
Know what Im saying, they should be thinking improve rather then 'change', 'remove', or 'replace'.

Sam_kain
10th May 2011, 19:01
To be honest i want a change like SCC, yet at the same time i want them to keep the original build with the awesome feature, i want a very compelling story, and 100 way to kill and i am good to go :D

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 19:02
Also , No Multiplayer ...

Either that , or make sure the Single Player can stand well on its own first ...

And No DLC Map Packs released a week after the game's release , that'll seriously make some dogs angry ...
Releasing six months later , maybe ...

SammiiDoogles
10th May 2011, 19:08
Also , No Multiplayer ...

Either that , or make sure the Single Player can stand well on its own first ...

And No DLC Map Packs released a week after the game's release , that'll seriously make some dogs angry ...
Releasing six months later , maybe ...

I second this.

JackGordon
10th May 2011, 19:33
I second this.Und I second it again.

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 19:49
This is undoutedly the most successful statement i have ever made ...
Two different people agreeing on it at the same time ? ...

Truly , the world as we know it isn't the same anymore ...

Brackstone17
10th May 2011, 19:54
Well the link said it was him being betrayed and going on a personal quest, so maybe less focus on assassinations? You know, like more objective variety maybe?

Or maybe 47 just has hair now. I bet he's grown a sweet moustache.

Sam_kain
10th May 2011, 20:01
Also , No Multiplayer ...

Either that , or make sure the Single Player can stand well on its own first ...

And No DLC Map Packs released a week after the game's release , that'll seriously make some dogs angry ...
Releasing six months later , maybe ...

agree there, i mean look at Dead Space 2, the SP is epic, the multiplayer is meh, also Batman Arkham City developers are only focusing on SP, they should do too, give us something like 20 or 25 hr campaign

btw mate if, just if they include multiplayer, what do you think would work ?!, for me i think it would be an assassination contract mode, only 2 players, you get the same target, the one who wins is the one who get to the target fast and stealthy, the difficulty on such a mode should be high, so if you break your cover you can't run 'n' gun cause you will die, but you cant retreat and think of different strategy, i will think of more modes. but for now guys what do you think ?!

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 20:19
The only piece of online componment that i can think of is basically a score based challenge for single player , and then you upload it on a worldwide leaderboard ...
Something simple like what was done for Arkham Asylum ...

Otherwise i was thinking of a 'disguise' game , where one player has to wonder which NPC is actually a human player ... ... but then this was used in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood , and since IO always strive for originality , i doubt they'll be borrowing ideas ...

SammiiDoogles
10th May 2011, 20:39
The only piece of online componment that i can think of is basically a score based challenge for single player , and then you upload it on a worldwide leaderboard ...
Something simple like what was done for Arkham Asylum ...

Otherwise i was thinking of a 'disguise' game , where one player has to wonder which NPC is actually a human player ... ... but then this was used in Assassin's Creed Brotherhood , and since IO always strive for originality , i doubt they'll be borrowing ideas ...

Plus online in Assassins Creed is awful, another great example of games that don't need online multiplayer.

Maybe something like Spies vs Mercs in Splinter Cell, if anything. Although I'd still prefer no multiplayer.

ZakKa89
10th May 2011, 20:53
Can't wait to see the new engine and it's (practical) features

BigBoss
10th May 2011, 20:54
I just hope that they don't try and make it "fast paced". Some better animations on takedowns would be greatly appreciated. Seriously, the guy is the worlds greatest assassin, and should be able to kill a man 100 different ways with his hands, yet all he has been able to do is punch a guy in the face.

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 20:57
punch a guy in the face.

TWICE ! ...

Not to mention a introductory headbutt ! ...

JaqTaar
10th May 2011, 21:43
I mainly would like to see improvements to the AI. Example:
Guards should not be fooled so easily by disguises; meaning that some disguises should only work at a distance, not up close when the guards can see your face. Remember "A new life"? None of the FBI agents wondered why a guy they never saw before was suddenly part of their witness protection team.

On the other hand, if the AI was more realistic, maybe the game would become too hard? And if there were more options (for example talking to guards to explain/justify your actions/presence so that they don't start shooting immediately), maybe it'd be too complex to account for all possibilities?

Something from Blood Money that could be improved is making deaths look like accidents or suicides or framing somebody. Not just within the individual levels, but without being discovered later. Blood Money's news papers always revealed that it was murder.
But it'd depend on the story whether or not such a feature would make sense.

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 21:55
The policemen's A.I. in Blood Money were , depending on your point of view , either the bravest legions of peace keeper on earth , or the dumbest suicidal fools , ever ...

I mean seriously , a guy walks in with a fully customised shotgun , and what does the security officer do ? he pulls out his pea shooter , spreads his legs in a cowboy stance , and ... What ?! ...
Shouldn't you be calling back up ? taking cover ? running towards the armory to get some more decent weapon to fight back ? how about a body armor ? ...

...

Another thing is how calm people actually are (this was probably due to design limitations , but with this generation of consoles , they 'might' be able to pull this off) ...
What i'm saying is that once a body is discovered (not during shootouts) , and the security comes check around ... they would proceed to put the corpse into a body bag and drag it into a corner ...

Now what they can do is add External Police Response , which you might want to create to add a bit of distraction as the detectives arrive and analyse the crime scene , and perhaps the detective is the actual target , things like that ; this would also suggest that a mission might take place for days (in-game) in the same location ...

But anywya , i think at this point it's a bit late to talk about what we want or don't to see ...

The game is pretty much 'finalized' , isn't it ? ...
I mean the overall gameplay and level design has already been laid out ... unless if Absolution isn't coming out for another year ...

auric
10th May 2011, 22:13
I mainly would like to see improvements to the AI. Example:
Guards should not be fooled so easily by disguises; meaning that some disguises should only work at a distance, not up close when the guards can see your face. Remember "A new life"? None of the FBI agents wondered why a guy they never saw before was suddenly part of their witness protection team.

On the other hand, if the AI was more realistic, maybe the game would become too hard? And if there were more options (for example talking to guards to explain/justify your actions/presence so that they don't start shooting immediately), maybe it'd be too complex to account for all possibilities?

Agreed, I wouldn't mind waiting to account for the possibilities like Fallout for dialogs :D

but more simpler, disguises that reveals his bald head while there aren't any bald guys in their group, should be suspicious. :D

Other improvements I would like to see are,

Shooting
It's so hard to aim properly, to make it look like the real deal 47 in the cinematics.
I hate to randomly shoot stuff when want to see what its like to take out everyone on the map.

Improve its TPS shooting like some other shooter games, SC:Conviction is fine, minus the Mark & Execute.
Shooting behind walls, where we point the cursor on that head than click & watch them make that professional shot.

SC:Conviction & Saboteur did great on that both stealth combat games.

Is it just me, or the FPS mode while shooting feels jerky in HM:Blood Money

Stealth
Some wall press would be nice, looks weird to see him standing so stiff while we peer the side of the wall with the camera.

Wall to wall movements for quick but silently get to the next cover.
So can hide better while tailing a guard closely behind.

HtH Kills
Is Fiber wire going to be the only way still? not counting melee weapons.
What about head snapping?
Smashing to a wall?
or a punch.

He looks build up enough for it, not like in the old games so skinny, the latest he look like can take on someone with his bare hands + Gloves. :D
After all, he's strong enough to shoot 2 silverballers.

"Accident Kill"
2 guys talking, walk up to them, make them look like innocently doing a head butt but killing each other. :D
j/k

BigBoss
10th May 2011, 22:29
well, considering hype trains now start A YEAR BEFORE RELEASE until they give us a date, I think it makes sense to talk about what would be cool in the game

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 22:33
Nah , i think Absolution is coming out this year alright ...

Next Year it's going to be Kane & Lynch III , which will come out on December Twenty First , and it'll actually score a eighty plus on metacritic , thus signaling the end of the world ...

JackGordon
10th May 2011, 22:48
Next Year it's going to be Kane & Lynch III , which will come out on December Twenty First , and it'll actually score a eighty plus on metacritic , thus signaling the end of the world ...Ugh... The wait for this imaginary title is killing me...:mad2:

GrievousOdyssey
10th May 2011, 22:50
Yes Dog Man , i'm STILL working on the plot pitch ...

BeardedHoplite
11th May 2011, 00:20
I think it would be sweet of the weapon customization would be extended to every gun in 47's arsenal. Besides that I would just be happy with the same mechanics as Blood Money in a shiny new graphics engine.

BigBoss
11th May 2011, 00:27
Nah , i think Absolution is coming out this year alright ...

Next Year it's going to be Kane & Lynch III , which will come out on December Twenty First , and it'll actually score a eighty plus on metacritic , thus signaling the end of the world ...

If dxhr, thief 4 and hitman 5 all came out this fall, I'm pretty sure my life would be complete. There's no reason they couldn't either, the games are so different it's not like they have to compete for the same audience.

Rindill the Red
11th May 2011, 01:57
Hitman does not need to change. Its formula is successful and entertaining. It can be improved and added to, as it has slowly developed throughout the series, but if it gets anything even remotely close the the SC:C treatment IO is going have a real life hitman to deal with.

jtr7
11th May 2011, 03:23
Will the barcode on the actual physical game box match the one on the avatar's neck?

Deus_Ex_Machina
11th May 2011, 05:55
When it comes to videogame sequels, change is ALWAYS bad when the original and/or previous games were good.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Metal Gear is a great example. Throughout the ENTIRE 20 year history of Metal Gear, the core gameplay mechanics haven't changed. Sure, gameplay mechanics have been added and the tech has greatly improved, but the core stealth-action gameplay hasn't changed.

Hitman is a stealth action game with an emphasis on disguises and silent or seemingly accidental kills.

If Absolution is like Splinter Cell Conviction, I'll be :mad:

BigBoss
11th May 2011, 06:08
^ You hit the nail on the head. I LOVE it when devs add new components to a game but I HATE it when they take core mechanics out.

A lot of people are complaining about mgs rising but if they did their research, it's already promised that you can get through the game without killing anyone, so I'm just a psyched as ever.

German
11th May 2011, 13:56
more stealth

less action

but knowing the gaming world these days
(mindless twitch gaming) they'll probably throw a ton of action options in to appeal to more gamers

if Hitman goes the Conviction route I'll probably age at least 10 years from sadness


My fav franchise is Hitman with Splinter Cell second, I just hope they don't Conviction-ize Hitman.

Then that will leave one last stealth game to ruin (Thief) and I can probably jump off a bridge and end my gaming life.

JackGordon
11th May 2011, 14:08
more stealth

less action

but knowing the gaming world these days
(mindless twitch gaming) they'll probably throw a ton of action options in to appeal to more gamers

if Hitman goes the Conviction route I'll probably age at least 10 years from sadnessOr maybe even worse... What if, at one point in the game, 47 meets up with none other than IO's very own Kane & Lynch for some sturdy cover-based TPS action!

Irate_Iguana
11th May 2011, 14:58
Or maybe even worse... What if, at one point in the game, 47 meets up with none other than IO's very own Kane & Lynch for some sturdy cover-based TPS action!

You take that back. This is no time to jinx a game.

Rindill the Red
11th May 2011, 15:04
Or maybe even better... What if, at one point in the game, 47 meets up with none other than IO's very own Kane & Lynch and kills them as part of his mission!

Fix'd.

JackGordon
11th May 2011, 15:20
Fix'd.Actually... A hit on "gaming's most notorious criminals" would work great! :thumb:

BigBoss
11th May 2011, 15:50
Actually... A hit on "gaming's most notorious criminals" would work great! :thumb:

Yes. That's one unique thing about eidos games over others, they really feel like they are all part of the same world whereas other companies just feel like all their games are separate entities.

Deus_Ex_Machina
11th May 2011, 16:20
Wut if in teh nu hitmen eyedos maeks us kill lara kroft but then hitmen gui fallz in louve wit herr. :D

123
11th May 2011, 17:49
Hitman does not need to change. Its formula is successful and entertaining. It can be improved and added to, as it has slowly developed throughout the series, but if it gets anything even remotely close the the SC:C treatment IO is going have a real life hitman to deal with.

When it comes to videogame sequels, change is ALWAYS bad when the original and/or previous games were good.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Metal Gear is a great example. Throughout the ENTIRE 20 year history of Metal Gear, the core gameplay mechanics haven't changed. Sure, gameplay mechanics have been added and the tech has greatly improved, but the core stealth-action gameplay hasn't changed.

Exactly what I'm talking about!

^ You hit the nail on the head. I LOVE it when devs add new components to a game but I HATE it when they take core mechanics out.
A lot of people are complaining about mgs rising but if they did their research, it's already promised that you can get through the game without killing anyone, so I'm just a psyched as ever.MGS Rising is a disappointment because of that raiden guy.


more stealth
less action
actually they do need to improve on the action more by adding melee attacks. something like a three pice combo and grab moves for take downs.
Also needs a cover system so you can aim around walls and take guys out.

But No changes are needed, so are we talking about changes or what can be improved in this game?
Cause I got a ton of ideas although they probably already got the game down.

Brackstone17
11th May 2011, 19:01
I'd like it if guards would notice pools of blood and blood stains on disguises this time around. It would make it more difficult, but only if you were a messy hitman.

123
11th May 2011, 19:33
Guards should definitely notice if there is blood on your disguise. Also something like if your dressed as a janitor or something like that you should be able to perform specific actions like moping floors to look inconspicuous and blend in.

Rindill the Red
11th May 2011, 21:31
Guards should definitely notice if there is blood on your disguise. Also something like if your dressed as a janitor or something like that you should be able to perform specific actions like moping floors to look inconspicuous and blend in.

Reminds me of Death to Spies an excellent Hitman-esque series that's even more punishing than Hitman, but just as gratifying.

German
13th May 2011, 15:49
[SIZE="5"]
But No changes are needed, so are we talking about changes or what can be improved in this game?
Cause I got a ton of ideas although they probably already got the game down.

3 move take downs?

sigh

sounds like you want another Conviction , as a stealth game that was an abomination in my eyes and treated the core stealth fans as old geriatric meat bags who they didn't need their money anymore.

I hope the developers have the same love for the series as I do and don't have negative things to say about the stealth aspects.

cover system would be fine, but for my style of play I don't need a gun at all




Do you have enough action games to choose from? I don't know why most gamers have the need for every game to suddenly be centered around guns ablaze and hijacking well known game series like Splinter Cell.

Why can't they put more and more aspects into what makes the series different (the stealthy options) from all the action games out there?

I know it's in an effort to capture the COD $$ cash COW, but please keep Hitman seated firmly into the stealth side of the coin as well.

They will probably improve the gun mechanics from the series, but any real fan of the series will tell you the best way to play was to go for Silent Assassin ratings and/or play in that style the entire game. I hope they add stealthy options and not remove them.

Rindill the Red
13th May 2011, 17:21
Action games are boring. It's as simple as that. They are boring as ****.

Stealth games are suspenseful and intelligent, patient and rewarding, atmospheric and reflective. When action does happen in stealth games, which it usually does (bar the ninja's out there), it is usually even more interesting and entertaining because it means more.

Which is more rewarding and entertaining? Mowing down 20 drones that pop up out behind cover while running down corridors, running into QTE and pre-scripted explosions -- Or -- stalking through a mission undetected, dropping a few enemies with well placed shots (or other more personal means), and executing a well planned assassination, and then having to react on the fly because part of the plan went bad, and barely escaping?

JackGordon
13th May 2011, 17:22
^ So you also liked Velvet Assassin? I did. A lot even.

BigBoss
13th May 2011, 17:23
^ So you also liked Velvet Assassin? I did. A lot even.

..............fail

JackGordon
13th May 2011, 17:29
^ And proud of it.

123
13th May 2011, 20:26
3 move take downs?
sigh
sounds like you want another Conviction , as a stealth game that was an abomination in my eyes and treated the core stealth fans as old geriatric meat bags who they didn't need their money anymore.

:confused:
First of all forgive me but I have not played Splinter Cell Conviction so I don't know what your talking about.
:confused:
Secondly you don't want better CQC(close quarters combat)take downs? Because Blood Money has a 3 move takedown system but it's just not as good.
:confused:
Thirdly I was referring to Metal Gear Solid which has a pretty good close quarters combat system, and is the originator and arguably the best stealth game there is.

I've been getting this a lot on the other Threads about ssc but at no time have I said that I want less stealth. What I did say was that the action aspect of this game be improved.
I made a Thread about that in that other Hitman forum which is a wast land.
Shoot First Ask Questions Later (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=113632)
Is it posable that I could have it moved over here?

GrievousOdyssey
14th May 2011, 12:33
My issue with recent 'stealth' games is that it's insultingly linear , there is no planning whatsoever , all you do is wait around for the guard's scripted routine and then move on ...
So in that remark , if it's all going to be linear , then might as well go with the phew phew phew action titles , at least these rollercoaster rides don't pretend they're something different , they just keep it entertaining ...

But why are we talking about this anywya ? ...
Guys , we don't know :) about what Absolution is going to look like , and we all already shared our common fear that it might be more shooting-oriented ... But that should be enough ...

Save your breathes ...
We have to wait for the first previews at E3 , after that , we can have some grounds to scream at ...

I mean this is just like back when Dog Days' first artwork was released and some just screamed about how 'goofy' it looked ...
Well it turns out the game wasn't goofy at all... ... well , not goofy as in 'funny' anywya ...

123
26th May 2011, 16:44
Action games are boring. It's as simple as that. They are boring as ****.
Stealth games are suspenseful and intelligent, patient and rewarding, atmospheric and reflective. When action does happen in stealth games, which it usually does (bar the ninja's out there), it is usually even more interesting and entertaining because it means more.
Wow that just a ridiculous statement Action game are Awesome and a nice change of pace. The way you describe all action games is wrong but I will say that lately games ain't been that good. I mean thats your opinion but come on!

Also , No Multiplayer ...

Either that , or make sure the Single Player can stand well on its own first ...
.What about coop Multtiplayer? I really liked the coop on Splinter Cell and Metal Gear had multiplayer and its gameplay stays hot. Someone said Assassins Creed but did the multiplayer mess up the single player on that one? Because I don't know I just think that multiplayer isn't the reason way games have beed sucking lately. A coop would do great you would just play as another clone or something like that. I know that they gotta focus on making the best single player gameplay that they can but it seem to me that twelve story missions isn't anuff to be worth 60$.

maikaal
27th May 2011, 10:55
Blood Money is perfect, no need to change anything.

123
9th Jun 2011, 16:21
The First Person view mode was alway kind of useless so I wouldn't miss it if it didn't make a return this time around.[not that I didn't like the first person] But if First person does make a return it has to have iron sights to make it a useful tool. Although Blood Money was far from perfect everything it had should stay in there. So we just talking about how to upgrades, so that first person thing would be upgraded.

Falkenwut
9th Jun 2011, 20:18
Personal opinion in changing stuff:
It's not always a bad idea. Hitman was perfect since the first game (for the time that they were made) However, this all depends on the changes ofcourse. I haven't been digging much into this recently... But i'll dig into it soon enough!

123
12th Jun 2011, 04:34
Its always a bad idea to strip away good gameplay but if you mean adding things to the game is a change, than that would be good, but taking away something good is bad. Here's an example Halo 3 wasn't as good because some reason they don't duel needles and reach completely suck because it strip everything. So when I say no need for change I mean like what Gears of War is doing, they didn't take anything away but they just added more to it. I heard that they took away the news paper out of hitman. Thats not a plus but it was a complicated story telling mechanic so hopefully their not going to strip away at the gameplay features.

Falkenwut
14th Jun 2011, 00:01
Its always a bad idea to strip away good gameplay but if you mean adding things to the game is a change, than that would be good, but taking away something good is bad. Here's an example Halo 3 wasn't as good because some reason they don't duel needles and reach completely suck because it strip everything. So when I say no need for change I mean like what Gears of War is doing, they didn't take anything away but they just added more to it. I heard that they took away the news paper out of hitman. Thats not a plus but it was a complicated story telling mechanic so hopefully their not going to strip away at the gameplay features.

I have to agree to stitching away good gameplay on that part. However as a company standpoint, keeping aspects can actually reduce sales. Taking an example back in the old days:

Tomb Raider 1 to 5 where all practically the same engine, without absolutely no changes... just additions each time. The fans kept on loving the games, but it was a turn off for new potential clients. Making them think "Oh it's just another tomb raider game, I'll skip it."

Change is enterpreneuring, a total gamble from a company stand-point. It can go pretty darn good, or just ruin everything. Who will suffer? The developers IFFFFFFFFF they do not do a good job out of it.

Deus_Ex_Machina
14th Jun 2011, 00:55
Changing the voice actor is change I can't believe in.

I'm done with Hitman: Absolution. And for that matter I'm done with Eidos. I'm so ******* sick and tired of devs and pubs changing game franchises to make them more marketable. If one more franchise I care about changes I'm quitting gaming.