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Techne
25th Mar 2011, 16:28
There's a problem that I think we need to address, how to continue the Series. Assuming that Deus EX: Human Revolution dose well enough to breathe new life into the Series. New Deus Ex games are likely to be made, the problem is Deus Ex: Invisible War. All of Invisible War’s endings don't just end the story told in the game, they seem to end the story of the entire Series. And that doesn’t leave allot of options; keep making prequels and interquels for Dues Ex and Dues Ex: Invisible. Or disregard the endings of Invisible War and perhaps the entire game from continuity and produce a new sequel to Deus Ex.

Reven
25th Mar 2011, 16:33
The options they are left with are limited. either they move on to the early days of unatco and paul denton or remake DX which is a controversial idea for almost anyone. in the end they are still trapped by their own story in that we know how it ends leaving nowhere else to go but side plots.

FuzzyPuffin
25th Mar 2011, 16:47
I don't see it as a problem. There are plenty of side stories to tell in the same timeframe as the current games. It might do the storytelling some good, actually. It would force smaller-scale, less "epic" plots, of which the games industry has an oversaturation.

Or they could go really wild and make a DX game in a post-singularity universe, where the options would be limitless.

biofuel
25th Mar 2011, 17:04
There's a problem that I think we need to address, how to continue the Series. Assuming that Deus EX: Human Revolution dose well enough to breathe new life into the Series. New Deus Ex games are likely to be made, the problem is Deus Ex: Invisible War. All of Invisible War’s endings don't just end the story told in the game, they seem to end the story of the entire Series. And that doesn’t leave allot of options; keep making prequels and interquels for Dues Ex and Dues Ex: Invisible. Or disregard the endings of Invisible War and perhaps the entire game from continuity and produce a new sequel to Deus Ex.

There are a million stories that can be told in the Deus Ex universe.

nomotog
25th Mar 2011, 17:04
Well there is that Gunther game idea.

Thasc
25th Mar 2011, 17:04
I'm led to believe that the next couple of potential DX games would be followups to HR, star Jensen, and be set well before the time of DX1.

andysk8
25th Mar 2011, 17:05
They can introduce some important characters in Human Revolution too, and later use them for their own game/story.

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2011, 17:12
I assume that there will be a big enough time gap still between the end of DXHR and the start of DX for them to be able to make further sequels without a hitch. In fact, I will be very surprised if DXHR doesn't purposefully leave some story threads open / end on a semi-cliffhanger to lead into a sequel. They've gone on too much about how they love Adam as a character to drop him after one game.

Reven
25th Mar 2011, 17:17
OR if Adam is Alex denton mk 2 then Paul should kill him just before DX's opening for good measure.

Ps.Alex D was such a plank of wood.

AlexOfSpades
25th Mar 2011, 17:24
You know a game under development is bad when they start wondering about the next one...

BigBoss
25th Mar 2011, 17:37
If this one is really successful, they'll probably just reboot the series. So continuity isn't really a big deal.

biofuel
25th Mar 2011, 19:36
If this one is really successful, they'll probably just reboot the series. So continuity isn't really a big deal.

What do you mean, in saying that they'll 'reboot' the series?

wheresmyskulgun
25th Mar 2011, 19:39
What do you mean, in saying that they'll 'reboot' the series?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityReboot

K^2
25th Mar 2011, 19:40
They'll write a whole new story line, pretending that Deus Ex never happened. (Ninja'd)

sonicsidewinder
25th Mar 2011, 20:26
They could include a time machine in HR's plot then anything could happen.

K^2
25th Mar 2011, 20:38
Yes, I can see it. Adam is walking through a dark alley. A sudden breeze picks up some loose trash. Sparks fly between the railing of a fire escape and nearby trash cans. A glowing sphere emerges on the ground and fades out, leaving naked JC in the alleyway. JC gets up, scans the environment with his augmented vision, walks up to stunned Adam, and declares, "I need your clothes and your sunglasses."

Cut to title.

Deus Ex: Judgement Day.

Happy
25th Mar 2011, 20:40
You should be in marketing! :)

BigBoss
25th Mar 2011, 20:51
What do you mean, in saying that they'll 'reboot' the series?

Like Batman Begins, Spiderman, Star Trek, the thing, The Bourne Identity, Superman, Casino Royale, ect....

I won't really care if they do if this game turns out to be absolutely amazing. A lot of reboots come from already good canon, but they just make them better.

K^2
25th Mar 2011, 21:03
But only if the game is accepted by the community. Otherwise, any attempt at a reboot ends in a disaster of epic proportions.

jtr7
25th Mar 2011, 21:04
They're starting over. The longer they go, the more the older games will just become the springboard for a new direction based on current and projected tech. The new DXs will become more and more of an alternate universe.

BigBoss
25th Mar 2011, 21:20
But only if the game is accepted by the community. Otherwise, any attempt at a reboot ends in a disaster of epic proportions.

I'm pretty sure the Star Trek reboot was loved by critics and was a huge success, but was disliked by the star trek community, so I'd have to disagree

K^2
25th Mar 2011, 21:35
I'm pretty sure the Star Trek reboot was loved by critics and was a huge success, but was disliked by the star trek community, so I'd have to disagree
And how has the franchise been doing after that?

BigBoss
25th Mar 2011, 21:37
Uh, there's only been one movie in the reboot, and the sequel is highly anticipated

BlazeL
25th Mar 2011, 21:43
What do you mean, in saying that they'll 'reboot' the series?

They'll write a whole new story line, pretending that Deus Ex never happened. (Ninja'd)

That's exactly what they should have done with HR in the frist place in my opinion.

BigBoss
25th Mar 2011, 21:47
:thumb:
That's exactly what they should have done with HR in the frist place in my opinion.

jtr7
25th Mar 2011, 21:48
Just like any rollercoaster amusement park ride of a movie full of plotholes, it bedazzles at first, then the reality sets in. It was weird seeing how long it was taking for people to realize it was packed with Star Wars tropes.

K^2
25th Mar 2011, 22:01
Uh, there's only been one movie in the reboot, and the sequel is highly anticipated
Oh... Wow. I read "Star Wars". I was also thinking that it wasn't that much of a reboot...

Yeah, I see your point. But the movie was good, that's the important part. I saw it with my girlfriend, and she liked it. Fans might have thrown a fit over lack of continuity, but if it's a good movie, it doesn't matter.

My point was that if the game actually turns out to be rather generic and uninteresting, reboot will fail. You cannot build it on something that's bland and doesn't actually outshine, or at least compares favorably, to original.

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2011, 22:20
That's exactly what they should have done with HR in the frist place in my opinion.

...In which case they shouldn't have called it Deus Ex in the first place. If you're changing the storyline and changing the gameplay, in what sense is it still Deus Ex?

VectorM
25th Mar 2011, 22:41
...In which case they shouldn't have called it Deus Ex in the first place. If you're changing the storyline and changing the gameplay, in what sense is it still Deus Ex?

Final Fantasy says hi.

Ashpolt
25th Mar 2011, 22:53
Final Fantasy says hi.

Up until FFXI, the Final Fantasy games all played similarly though - their were slight variations in the magic system, but they were still ultimately very similar.

Reven
26th Mar 2011, 00:20
Speaking of FF... is it me or is Dragon age 2 using FF 13's tactics system ?.

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 00:36
Does it have as many cut scenes?

Reven
26th Mar 2011, 00:42
Does it have as many cut scenes?

No it has less and the story pretty much makes sense.

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 00:49
That's still setting the bar low, but that's a start

Neuromancer07
26th Mar 2011, 00:55
There's 25 years between Human Revolution and Deus Ex. The history of the Deus Ex universe is so rich that thousands of different stories can be told. I personally would like to see some European-centric game, exploring the centralisation of Europe due to corporate machinations and the formation of resistance groups like Silhouette.

Also I think it would be best if everyone treats Invisible War as non-cannon, it makes for a more digestible experience if you treat it as the fevered, drug-induced delirium of Harvey Smith with the well-intentioned enabling of Warren Spector.

Get better soon Harvey, join Doug Church at Valve.

Reven
26th Mar 2011, 00:59
That's still setting the bar low, but that's a start


Well in DA 2 its easy to see what drives most of the main characters and what they mean when they talk. but FF13 makes no sense and makes no attempt at sense. fal'cie ? pulse fal'cie ? Cocoon ? what are any of these things ?. who are most of these people ? and what drives them ?. FF 13 has so many problems and its story is among the chief of them.

BlazeL
26th Mar 2011, 01:36
...In which case they shouldn't have called it Deus Ex in the first place. If you're changing the storyline and changing the gameplay, in what sense is it still Deus Ex?

I think it wasn't particularly important if it's Deus Ex in any sense. Deus Ex is a very valuable name in itself and it has a lots of benefits for Eidos to use it for the first game of EM (attracting developers to the new AAA studio, minimising risks by making the game as part of a 'well recognised franchise', capitalizing on existing Eidos intellectual property that laid unused).

And really, if it's a reboot, has some similar characteristics (in this case: slightly similar setting, "four gameplay pillars" that are resembling to tools DX gave you to solve its challenges) why not call it DX then? It's not unusual in the game indusry. (Not that i'm happy with it, but that's how this business is working.)

But it would have been a far more honest thing to tell from the start that they are making a reboot. Essentially, that's what they are doing, no matter if the universe is the same and HR is being called a prequlel; i can't see any logical way to link the world of DX to what it seems the world of HR will be. (You know, in this regard HR already managed to underpass Invisible War in my eyes, altough i should refrain from judgement until i play the game, but that will be around two years from now cause i won't buy it for more than 10$.) Now they have a lots of inconsistencies (continuity wise), but what are the benefits of this being a prequel? I don't see any except that it's the cheapest way to attract the fans of the old game(s) who may not like the changes in gameplay/art style/etc.

I would be much more forgiving for a lots of things (that are real issues for me about HR) that i just can't take from a game that tries so hard to sell itself as a 'real DX game', but i would accept from an admitted reboot.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 01:57
I think it was't particularly important if it's Deus Ex in any sense. Deus Ex is a very valuable name in itself and it has a lots of benefits for Eidos to use it for the first game of EM (attracting developers to the new AAA studio, minimising risks by making the game as part of a 'well recognised franchise', capitalizing on existing Eidos intellectual property that laid unused).

But fans aren't interested in the name itself, but in what it represents. What if EMI tomorrow said "Pink Floyd are putting out a new album! Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Nick Mason, Rick Wright and Syd Barrett aren't involved, instead it's now Robbie Williams, Avril Lavigne, Fred Durst and Tay Zonday! And the sound is going to be a blend of rap and a cat getting dragged across hot coal!"?

Using the IP just for the name and the reputation and fan attachment that entails, but nothing else, may make sense in the business sense in the short term, but it's a despicably dishonest business practice.

Note that I'm not saying I think EM are using it solely for the franchise's reputation - I think they've been very loose with the IP, but they've made at least some attempt to tie it in. This is purely in the hypothetical scenario we're discussing.


And really, if it's a reboot, has some similar characteristics (in this case: slightly similar setting, "four gameplay pillars" that are resembling to tools DX gave you to solve its challenges) why not call it DX then? It's not unusual in the game indusry. (Not that i'm happy with it, but that's how this business is working.)

Calling it a reboot doesn't give them a free pass: if they want to go with something significantly different, then just make a new IP. Again, if you're using an IP solely for the name and reputation, it's dishonest, and I would at least hope consumers are savvy enough to not reward such terrible practice (though sadly I know they're generally not.)


I would be much more forgiving for a lots of things (that are real issues for me about HR) that i just can't take from a game that tries so hard to sell itself as a 'real DX game', but i would accept from an admitted reboot.

I wouldn't be any more forgiving on a reboot (my issues don't generally lie in the area of storyline continuity anyway, tbh) but I would be a hell of a lot more forgiving if they were making a new IP that just happened to share some similarities with Deus Ex.

wheresmyskulgun
26th Mar 2011, 02:21
That's exactly what they should have done with HR in the frist place in my opinion.

I actually really approve of the way they did this, because I personally think the mechanical augs are so much more tactile, interesting, and socially imaginative than nano-augs, which are basically just a fancy term for magic superpowers with no ramifications. I realize that some purists are mad that the TVs in 2027 are better than the TVs in DX1, and other things along those lines, but that just seems like absurd nitpicking to me.



What if EMI tomorrow said "Pink Floyd are putting out a new album! Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Nick Mason, Rick Wright and Syd Barrett aren't involved, instead it's now Robbie Williams, Avril Lavigne, Fred Durst and Tay Zonday!"?


I want that album.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 02:48
I want that album.

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/Ashpolt2/dietodeath.jpg

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 03:16
Well in DA 2 its easy to see what drives most of the main characters and what they mean when they talk. but FF13 makes no sense and makes no attempt at sense. fal'cie ? pulse fal'cie ? Cocoon ? what are any of these things ?. who are most of these people ? and what drives them ?. FF 13 has so many problems and its story is among the chief of them.

I slapped the first disc in and played for about 10 minutes, and then turned it off at the line "Yeah, well,....moms are tough" so I have no idea what you're talking about.

Shralla
26th Mar 2011, 03:22
I'm pretty sure the Star Trek reboot was loved by critics and was a huge success, but was disliked by the star trek community

Every Star Trek fan I know including myself likes the new movie. It's Star Trek, but made now. What's the issue?

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 03:33
Every Star Trek fan I know including myself likes the new movie. It's Star Trek, but made now. What's the issue?

Stuff like this
http://startrekxisucks.blogspot.com/2009/06/problems-with-new-star-trek-movie.html
I dunno, ask jtr, he says it's terrible

auric
26th Mar 2011, 04:44
If this one is really successful, they'll probably just reboot the series. So continuity isn't really a big deal.

That's what I'm thinking, actually I thought they already said it?
Isn't this already a reboot?

I recall people talking about expecting to see a new JC again (not necessary right after DX:HR), with some differences, using the old game as a prototype.
:)

auric
26th Mar 2011, 04:49
Every Star Trek fan I know including myself likes the new movie. It's Star Trek, but made now. What's the issue?

Can't wait to see the new timeline. :)
lots of ideas flowing.

jtr7
26th Mar 2011, 04:58
I recall people talking about expecting to see a new JC again (not necessary right after DX:HR), with some differences, using the old game as a prototype.
:)

There are always the extremists, and then there are those who aren't saying things like that, but are wrongly categorized with the extremists.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 05:13
I loved the new Star Trek film. Why? Because it had the Kirk / Spock / Bones team down almost perfectly. (OK, I would've liked to see more of Bones, especially because Karl Urban did such a good job, but I trust that'll happen in the sequel(s).)

Also, technically it's not a reboot, it's actually in-continuity with everything that came before it. I know it doesn't actually make a lot of difference, but the fact that they made the effort to keep it in continuity with everything else probably went a long way towards helping me accept it.

auric
26th Mar 2011, 05:23
I loved the new Star Trek film. Why? Because it had the Kirk / Spock / Bones team down almost perfectly. (OK, I would've liked to see more of Bones, especially because Karl Urban did such a good job, but I trust that'll happen in the sequel(s).)

Also, technically it's not a reboot, it's actually in-continuity with everything that came before it. I know it doesn't actually make a lot of difference, but the fact that they made the effort to keep it in continuity with everything else probably went a long way towards helping me accept it.

Their history is kept in check, but their future is now open to possibilities.
Love the way they made a connection with their past & the realistic changes due to the temporal circumstances.

It's all very reasonable.

Difference with this compare to other shows reboot, is that the original universe of Star Trek still exists thanks to it being due to a temporal change, not universal origin change.

They are free to make shows on both sides, may even have crossovers if they want to.

auric
26th Mar 2011, 05:25
There are always the extremists, and then there are those who aren't saying things like that, but are wrongly categorized with the extremists.

The people doing the interviews jjb or something, himself keep mentioning the word reboot.
So unless his tapping his badge & changing into something else, the developers themselves are considering DX:HR as a reboot.

But whether or not there'll be a JC part again that's another matter. :)

AceofSwords
26th Mar 2011, 05:33
I havent played IW but from what I understand it's just a rehash of the original DX. If that's the case than continuity could be maintained by selecting one of the endings and making it canon. The illuminati ending for example. What would happen if JC Denton chose to revive the illuminati? Things might go back to a 'big brother' state but new problems could emerge including certain factions or AIs trying to do a takeover or propagating a virus through the global information network and plunging the world into a half-dark ages half technosphere state. or the world might fraction into city-states, some run by corporations, some by independent entities, and others perhaps by an AI ruler (though if the AI ruler was nearly as powerful as Helios was in DX1, it would be able to attain absolute power by propagating through the global information network -- so that possibility might be ruled out).

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 05:34
But fans aren't interested in the name itself, but in what it represents. What if EMI tomorrow said "Pink Floyd are putting out a new album! Roger Waters, David Gilmour, Nick Mason, Rick Wright and Syd Barrett aren't involved, instead it's now Robbie Williams,

Who?


Avril Lavigne,

Who?


Fred Durst

Who?


and Tay Zonday!

Who?


And the sound is going to be a blend of rap and a cat getting dragged across hot coal!"?


You say that as if there's a difference...

auric
26th Mar 2011, 05:39
I havent played IW but from what I understand it's just a rehash of the original DX. If that's the case than continuity could be maintained by selecting one of the endings and making it canon. The illuminati ending for example. What would happen if JC Denton chose to revive the illuminati? Things might go back to a 'big brother' state but new problems could emerge including certain factions or AIs trying to do a takeover or propagating a virus through the global information network and plunging the world into a half-dark ages half technosphere state. or the world might fraction into city-states, some run by corporations, some by independent entities, and others perhaps by an AI ruler (though if the AI ruler was nearly as powerful as Helios was in DX1, it would be able to attain absolute power by propagating through the global information network -- so that possibility might be ruled out).

That would make 1 extreme stealth game, how to hide from an AI that's everywhere.
every pc u click, every camera looking, every bot? that roams around.
May be even have access to old Mechs & Nano people's visual systems.
:o

K^2
26th Mar 2011, 08:18
You say that as if there's a difference...
Rap tends to be much lower in pitch than cat getting dragged across hot coals. But if you mean content, lyrics, and musical arrangement, yeah, it's pretty much the same.

Badmaker
26th Mar 2011, 08:29
If the next Deus Ex is done by a friendly PC developer (not EM) then its cool.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 09:23
Rap tends to be much lower in pitch than cat getting dragged across hot coals. But if you mean content, lyrics, and musical arrangement, yeah, it's pretty much the same.

There's content, music, and lyics in (c)rap? :scratch:

Huh? Who'da thunk... ?

wheresmyskulgun
26th Mar 2011, 09:32
Rap tends to be much lower in pitch than cat getting dragged across hot coals. But if you mean content, lyrics, and musical arrangement, yeah, it's pretty much the same.

Sigh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQKGvVRnZ8

Really?

K^2
26th Mar 2011, 09:44
0_0

I retract my statement. There is no difference.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 09:50
Sigh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btQKGvVRnZ8

Really?

I really miss those four seconds of my life. I want them back, please.

wheresmyskulgun
26th Mar 2011, 09:51
I really miss those four seconds of my life. I want them back, please.

Haters gonna hate. But Lupe Fiasco is pretty great.

How old are you two, anyways ;)

K^2
26th Mar 2011, 09:55
I'm 25, and with very few exceptions, I consider all music younger than I am to be crap. And most of the past decade and a half shouldn't even be considered music.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 10:15
Haters gonna hate. But Lupe Fiasco is pretty great.

How old are you two, anyways ;)

I'm 46, and have a daughter only a year younger than K^2. I also have a son who's 11, and two more boys and one girl in between those ages.

It's not so much hate that I have for (c)rap, as it is the lack of originality (most of what I've heard lifts from songs I grew up listening to - I can't decide if it's no better than stealing, or some sort of backhanded compliment), the lack of variation in the 4/4 beat, the lack of talent (nobody even plays an instrument - they just all use samples, drum machines and computers*), the excessive use of autotune (if you can't sing to begin with, then maybe you shouldn't be singing at all), the shallow lyrics, the juvenile subject matter, and the reinforcement of stereotypes <waits for the cries of "hypocrite">.

Oh, and before anyone says, "Your parents probably felt the same way about *your* music, I would like to say that my mother was as much into Rush and Yes as I am, *really* got into Vangelis and Tomita, and even bounced around a bit to Black Sabbath and Deep Purple.

Dad wasn't as into it all as I am, but he never, ever told me to "Turn that crap down/off!" OTOH, my kids are into country, which is only one step above (c)rap on my scale. Fortunately, they also like my music, so they're not going to be sold yet.

*Not that I have an issue with that when used sparingly, or for added texture, but to use that stuff exclusively...? Uhhhh, no. Just no.

wheresmyskulgun
26th Mar 2011, 10:51
It's not so much hate that I have for (c)rap, as it is the lack of originality (most of what I've heard lifts from songs I grew up listening to - I can't decide if it's no better than stealing, or some sort of backhanded compliment),



Can't really comment on that without knowing specific songs, but rap was around when you were growing up; it just wasn't 'pop-ified' and mainstream. Fans of rap tend to think of modern rappers the same was fans of Deus Ex tend to think of Invisible War.




the lack of variation in the 4/4 beat, the lack of talent (nobody even plays an instrument - they just all use samples, drum machines and computers*),



Yeah, it's all about the voice. Rapping well takes just as much talent as playing an instrument.




the excessive use of autotune (if you can't sing to begin with, then maybe you shouldn't be singing at all),



So you have a problem with pop. Most rappers don't sing. You're just thinking of the most mainstream, industry-created, least authentic rap imaginable.




the shallow lyrics, the juvenile subject matter, and the reinforcement of stereotypes <waits for the cries of "hypocrite">.



See above. Just because the rap you listen to- or don't listen to, I guess- is all about thug life and bling, that doesn't mean that's what rap itself is about. You may not agree with these sentiments, but for God's sake, you think Rush is deeper than this?

Don't you know that I run this place,
And I've begun this race,
Must I rerun this pace?
I'm the reason its become this way
And their love for it is the reason I have become this praised
They love my darkness,
I make them heartless,
And in return, the have become my martyrs,
I've been in the poem of many a poet,
And I reside in the art of many a artist
Some of your smartest have tried to artictulate
My whole part in this
But they're fruitless in their harvestin'
The drow grows from my footsteps
I'm the one that they follow,
I am the one that they march with
Through the back alleys
And the black markets,
The Oval Offices,
Crackhouses and apartments
Through the mazes of the queens,
The pages of the sages
And the Chambers of The Kings
Through the veins-es of the fiends,
A paper chaser's pager,
Yo, I'm famous on the scene
One of the oldest, most ancient-est of things
Seak every single language on the planet, y'all mean?
I am the American dream,
The rape of Africa
The undying machine,
The overpriced medicine,
The murderous regime,
The tough guy's front,
And the one behind the scenes
I am the blood of this city,
It's gas, water, and electricity,
I'm it's gym, and it's math, and it's history,
The gunshots in the class
And you can't pass if you're missin, G.

http://www.vimeo.com/8233312

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 11:05
Not gonna get into a pissing match with you. Suffice it to say that music is highly subjective, and you have your likes and dislikes, and I have mine, and we'll leave it at that.

If it's any consolation to you, rap *is* one step above the current trend(s) in pop. However, since I don't voluntarily listen to rap, current pop, or current country, there's really not much difference.

You know what happens when you play a country record backwards? Your dog comes back, your wife comes back, your pickup starts running again...

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 11:12
Oh, and before anyone says, "Your parents probably felt the same way about *your* music.

And your great grandparents felt the same way about your grandparents music. Jazz was originally used as a place word for F%ck(a friend of mine's grandpa had a licence plate which was jazzme which was too risqué for the retirement home) and at it's inception, conservative associations were spreading propaganda calling this new "aggressive, agitated sound" dangerous, because of the sex and drugs lifestyle most of the leading artists lead, and tried to ban it.

Same as rock and roll

Same as rap

Same as whatever's next


I like the fugees

K^2
26th Mar 2011, 12:40
You may not agree with these sentiments, but for God's sake, you think Rush is deeper than this?
There is no more depth in the lyrics you posted than there is predictive power in the horoscopes. It is many words about nothing, letting you read into them whatever you want. There is no expression in it.

You want powerful lyrics? Look at Pink Floyd or King Crimson for stellar examples.

And at any rate, I hold a strong position that there should be actual music in music. Rap simply doesn't qualify.

Edit: MaxxQ1, if you haven't already, you might be interested to check out a group called Teräsbetoni. A lot of their songs are done in the classic metal style. Nothing like what passes for metal with most of today's bands. It sounds like you'd appreciate that kind of thing.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
26th Mar 2011, 13:36
Ask yourself, how long will Windows support DX1... and DX2.

As long as Windows supports DX1, it will be a suicidal masochistic mission to remake that game in front of us.

I suspect we will see Crystal SDK sometime within the 10 year franchise. I think it makes no sense for EM to remake other games, they've even said that in interviews, that they would rather generate new worlds and characters and maximize their creativity. It's also maximizing what customers will receive in the whole 20 years of Deus Ex franchise. So we should be happy with that.

K^2
26th Mar 2011, 13:48
Shadowrunner;1588886']Ask yourself, how long will Windows support DX1... and DX2.
Even if they stop working with Windows, or Windows becomes outdated, you'll have options to run it. WinE runs DX just fine, I believe. And then there are virtual PC options. So a day when your computer won't be able to run DX will probably never happen.

Ninjerk
26th Mar 2011, 14:16
There is no more depth in the lyrics you posted than there is predictive power in the horoscopes. It is many words about nothing, letting you read into them whatever you want. There is no expression in it.

Are the lyrics for Sympathy for the Devil many words about nothing?

With respect to Lupe Fiasco, I haven't listened to anything off Lazers, yet. I would, however, point to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ra9DVewxdo (even though Bishop G's verse feels trivial following Lu's content) and, I didn't think I would pick this one, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFO46grxLJ0 reminds me very much of the poem "Kubla Khan" by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The differences really are just that the dream in Lupe's case probably wasn't opiate inspired and Lupe criticizes mainstream hip hop culture with the last verse.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 17:27
Who? (First time)

Don't make me bust out the "Die to Death" picture again, mister!

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 17:53
Don't make me bust out the "Die to Death" picture again, mister!

Okay, just to clarify, since Floyd was also mentioned above that first "who": I know who pink Floyd are. Love 'em. It's this Robbie Williams guy I literally never heard of (although I admit, now the name is sounding familiar - who's he with?). In fact, of the four "replacement" members of PF that you named, I've only ever *heard* of Avril (because I have a stepdaughter who used to like her stuff), and Durst.

<shrug> I'm extremely picky with current music. The newest acts that I've liked sufficiently to buy their cd's is Goldfrapp (recommended by someone at another forum) and Lacuna Coil. I "discovered" LC from playing Vampire - Bloodlines. Their song "Swamped" is used in the game, as well as the cover art for the album it came from, Comalies.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 18:13
Okay, just to clarify, since Floyd was also mentioned above that first "who": I know who pink Floyd are. Love 'em. It's this Robbie Williams guy I literally never heard of (although I admit, now the name is sounding familiar - who's he with?). In fact, of the four "replacement" members of PF that you named, I've only ever *heard* of Avril (because I have a stepdaughter who used to like her stuff), and Durst.

Ah, OK. Robbie Williams is massively famous in England: he used to be the frontman for Take That, then he struck out on his own, now he's back with them again (I think.) Tay Zonday was a bit of an internet sensation a few years ago because of his song Chocolate Rain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA)


<shrug> I'm extremely picky with current music. The newest acts that I've liked sufficiently to buy their cd's is Goldfrapp (recommended by someone at another forum) and Lacuna Coil. I "discovered" LC from playing Vampire - Bloodlines. Their song "Swamped" is used in the game, as well as the cover art for the album it came from, Comalies.

I'm the same, there aren't all that many new bands I like. If you like Pink Floyd, I'd recommend giving Coheed & Cambria a try, starting with the album In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3. They're heavier than Floyd, and very obviously a "modern" band, but they're very much a "concept" band - each of their albums is part of an overarching sci-fi narrative - and they're a lot more ambitious than most modern bands.

AlexOfSpades
26th Mar 2011, 18:31
Robbie Williams is that Elvis-looking guy with the pink guitar, i think. He has a beautiful voice, i can give him that.

Avril Lavigne is that more-good-looking-than-good-singing girl who changes her style constantly. From skater, to emo, to hardrock, to punk, to "good girl".


Fred Durst is the guy from Limp Bizkit. Right?


and Tay Zonday is the guy from Chocolate Rain.

Chocolate Brain

Can i get a internet cookie now?

Shralla
26th Mar 2011, 19:02
And at any rate, I hold a strong position that there should be actual music in music. Rap simply doesn't qualify.

That's stupid, ignorant, narrow-minded, and to be completely frank, just plain incorrect on a fundamentally factual level. If you don't like rap, that's fine, but don't throw your bull**** around like you're some know-it-all master of the arts who decides what is and isn't music. Rap is music just like all your nostalgic attachments, and those lyrics are just as significant and powerful as those in any other style of music.

Like I said, I don't give a **** if you don't like rap, but don't play it off like an entire style of music with thousands upon thousands of artists is somehow objectively bad and moreover, not even art, according to you.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 19:02
Ah, OK. Robbie Williams is massively famous in England: he used to be the frontman for Take That, then he struck out on his own, now he's back with them again (I think.) Tay Zonday was a bit of an internet sensation a few years ago because of his song Chocolate Rain. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA)

Take That... ? Were they around in the mid to late '80's? I was stationed in England from 1984-1987, and the band name sounds familiar.

As for internet sensations... I don't really follow all that stuff.


I'm the same, there aren't all that many new bands I like. If you like Pink Floyd, I'd recommend giving Coheed & Cambria a try, starting with the album In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3. They're heavier than Floyd, and very obviously a "modern" band, but they're very much a "concept" band - each of their albums is part of an overarching sci-fi narrative - and they're a lot more ambitious than most modern bands.

Quite a few people on the Rush forum I partake in have mentioned C&C before, but nothing has been said that has really convinced me to lay down money for. I suppose I could check YouTube...

Are they anything like Porcupine Tree? I only have Fear of a Blank Planet from them, but I like it. OBTW, don't mention Dream Theater. I can't stand them, especially that pompous ass Mike Portnoy (yes, I know he's leaving the band/has left, but still...)

"More ambitious..." That by itself is almost enough to sell me. Modern bands, for the most part, are as much copypasta as everyone here accuses the gaming industry of.

Edit:


Are the lyrics for Sympathy for the Devil many words about nothing?

With respect to Lupe Fiasco, I haven't listened to anything off Lazers, yet. I would, however, point to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ra9DVewxdo (even though Bishop G's verse feels trivial following Lu's content) and, I didn't think I would pick this one, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFO46grxLJ0 reminds me very much of the poem "Kubla Khan" by Samuel Taylor Coleridge. The differences really are just that the dream in Lupe's case probably wasn't opiate inspired and Lupe criticizes mainstream hip hop culture with the last verse.

Funny you should mention Coleridge:

MgK7OMYHh2Y

And the lyrics:

Xanadu - Rush - A Farewell to Kings

'To seek the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honey dew
And drink the milk of paradise...'

I had heard the whispered tales
Of immortality
The deepest mystery
From an ancient book. I took a clue
I scaled the frozen mountain tops
Of eastern lands unknown
Time and Man alone
Searching for the lost --- Xanadu

Xanadu --- To stand within The Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste anew the fruits of life
The last immortal man
To find the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
Oh, I will dine on honey dew
And drink the milks of Paradise

A thousand years have come and gone
But time has passed me by
Stars stopped in the sky
Frozen in an everlasting view
Waiting for the world to end
Weary of the night
Praying for the light
Prison of the lost --- Xanadu

Xanadu --- Held within The Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste my bitter triumph
As a mad immortal man
Nevermore shall I return
Escape these caves of ice
For I have dined on honey dew
And drunk the milk of Paradise

Anasumtj
26th Mar 2011, 19:26
So HR is looking cool.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 19:43
So HR is looking cool.

Maybe, maybe not.

Back on topic: I think that any sequel to HR would almost *have* to continue with Adam, if only because at that point, he is the character that people are going to identify with since HR will most likely be their first and only experience with the Deus Ex franchise.

I honestly can't see HR ending where DX starts, as DX takes place 25 years later. Is HR going to take place over a 25 year period (like DA2 takes place over ten years)? I doubt that.

According to in-game info in DX, the bombing of the Statue of Liberty was pretty much the reason UNATCO was formed, and even then, it was only a couple years prior to the start of DX. So, that leaves 20-odd years that could be filled in with other "adventures" of Adam Jensen.

My major worry is that if this game sells well, any sequel to it will take the gameplay mechanics from HR, and amplify them, because obviously, they *must* have been good for the "first" game to have sold so well. I have a small hope that EM *might* put back a bit more of the complexity, and remove any third-person completely, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 20:00
Take That... ? Were they around in the mid to late '80's? I was stationed in England from 1984-1987, and the band name sounds familiar.

They were early to mid 90s. There was a while when they were massively popular though, so they probably gained some degree of international fame.


Quite a few people on the Rush forum I partake in have mentioned C&C before, but nothing has been said that has really convinced me to lay down money for. I suppose I could check YouTube...

Are they anything like Porcupine Tree? I only have Fear of a Blank Planet from them, but I like it. OBTW, don't mention Dream Theater. I can't stand them, especially that pompous ass Mike Portnoy (yes, I know he's leaving the band/has left, but still...)

"More ambitious..." That by itself is almost enough to sell me. Modern bands, for the most part, are as much copypasta as everyone here accuses the gaming industry of.


Ah yeah, C&C are actually a lot closer to Rush than they are to Floyd, a much better comparison. If you love Rush, I'd say you'll definitely at least like C&C. If you want to check them out on Youtube first, here are a few good ones:

In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxowWo_XV_c)
The Crowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGcMXAfVl8) (This song starts off a bit "generic shred"-y, but shifts later on.)
Time Consumer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eAdCEvdv4)
Everything Evil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmV3pXm5juU&feature=related)
Welcome Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC_xzitahlU)

That should get you started. :)

Honestly don't know Porcupine Tree so can't compare them. Only really know Dream Theatre for their Pink Floyd covers.

MaxxQ1
26th Mar 2011, 20:41
They were early to mid 90s. There was a while when they were massively popular though, so they probably gained some degree of international fame.



Ah yeah, C&C are actually a lot closer to Rush than they are to Floyd, a much better comparison. If you love Rush, I'd say you'll definitely at least like C&C. If you want to check them out on Youtube first, here are a few good ones:

In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxowWo_XV_c)

Hmmm... can't say I'm into the borderline cookie-monster backing vocals. Which is weird, because I also happen to like Type O Negative... OTOH, there is definitely some atmosphere in the beginning and during the interludes which I like. The other parts of the song are a little too thrash for my liking, but it *could* grow on me.

The Crowing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGcMXAfVl8) (This song starts off a bit "generic shred"-y, but shifts later on.)

Okay... not 30 seconds in and I *have* to make this comment: The vocalist sounds like Alanis Morrisette with a touch of sore throat - more in the vocal style and pitch than anything else, but it *is* a bit distracting. IMO, that's even worse than the "cat-screech" everyone accuses Geddy (bassist and vocals for Rush) of having. He doesn't anymore, but no one who hates Rush bothers to mention that he hasn't screeched in 20 years.

Back to listening...

Okay, listened to the rest and... still not sold. They're not bad, but I guess I'm older than I thought, because something just bugs me about the style. On to the next video.

Time Consumer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eAdCEvdv4)

Ah, now *this* one I like, despite my still having problems with the vocalist. I just don't think his voice fits with the music. It's not terrible, but it just doesn't mesh well. Good guitar work in the solo towards the end, but it felt a bit meandering and I also thought it didn't fit with the song.

Everything Evil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmV3pXm5juU&feature=related)

Okay, pretty much the same crits as before. The music isn't bad, but there is just a problem (for me) with the vocals. If they had a different singer, I would be more sold. He doesn't have a bad voice - I just don't think it fits with the music. I don't know what kind of vocals would be good, though...

Welcome Home (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC_xzitahlU)

Okay, now *this* one is good to excellent. Love the acoustic at the beginning. Still that vocal issue though, but like I said above about the music style in general, it might grow on me if I listen to it more.

I'm going to have to give them more of a listen, but the radio station I listen to on my drives to and from work doesn't play them - it's classic rock/album-oriented rock. At home, I generally just have my iTunes playing on random

Techne
27th Mar 2011, 02:18
Of Deus Ex: Invisible War's four endings the Illuminati ending to me anyway has the post potential for a direct continuation.

Human beings are rebellious by nature and even in a safe stable world with little to no want. Someone would defy the system simply for the sake of being defiant. And despite the universal surveillance, that someone would find away and they would find others. You could play as member of the growing rebellion or as an Agent of the System sent destroy them; perhaps both.


Human are also contentious by nature. And this contentiousness could lead to Internal conflict within the Illuminati over how the world should be run now that they have successfully taken it over. And This Schism is going to turn violent. The Player takes the role of Agent an for one or more factions with in the Illuminati fighting a shadow and eventually open war for control. And the strife of caused by the the common people begin to foment rebellion.

wheresmyskulgun
27th Mar 2011, 07:08
Of Deus Ex: Invisible War's four endings the Illuminati ending to me anyway has the post potential for a direct continuation.

Human beings are rebellious by nature and even in a safe stable world with little to no want. Someone would defy the system simply for the sake of being defiant. And despite the universal surveillance, that someone would find away and they would find others. You could play as member of the growing rebellion or as an Agent of the System sent destroy them; perhaps both.


Human are also contentious by nature. And this contentiousness could lead to Internal conflict within the Illuminati over how the world should be run now that they have successfully taken it over. And This Schism is going to turn violent. The Player takes the role of Agent an for one or more factions with in the Illuminati fighting a shadow and eventually open war for control. And the strife of caused by the the common people begin to foment rebellion.

Was I the only one who gave it to the Omar? Felt like the little buggers deserved it.

Techne
31st Mar 2011, 20:31
Was I the only one who gave it to the Omar? Felt like the little buggers deserved it.

Why partial to the Omar? The Omar senario is the bleakest of the four endgames; all of humanity is dead and vaugly human shaped nano-colonies are all thats left.

imported_the_guy
2nd Apr 2011, 18:42
The problem with making sequels a game that has many endings is that you don't know which one to pick. But if Deus ex 4 (its weird typing that:rolleyes: ) was going to continue from IW they probably wouldn't give it to the Omar as it would be hard to make a deus ex game out of that.

JCpies
2nd Apr 2011, 18:53
Well there is that Gunther game idea.

I agree, there are many stories yet to tell.

-The quest to uncover the secret incident of the lemon-lime and orange. Circa 2052.

-The plotline created by Eidos Montreal for Deus ex 4.

-Deus Ex: The Walton Simons affair.

-Deus Ex: Adam-timate super storm!

-Deus Ex: Revolution

-Deus Ex: Deadly greasels

-Deus Ex: Guns of the not so patriotic patriots

And many more!

imported_the_guy
2nd Apr 2011, 19:19
-Deus Ex: The Walton Simons affair = win

AgentOrange
2nd Apr 2011, 19:24
And don't forget Deus Ex' spinoff: Ghunter Ex

GX: Featuring agent Ghunter investigating the maintenance men conspiracy.

Daedatheus
2nd Apr 2011, 19:25
If a team tackled remaking DX1 and did it on say, Cryengine 3, I'd probably offer up a kidney or my future first-born child.

AgentOrange
2nd Apr 2011, 19:26
If a team tackled remaking DX1 and did it on say, Cryengine 3, I'd probably offer up a kidney or my future first-born child.

Monster! :mad:

Angel-A
2nd Apr 2011, 22:44
I really don't think they've written themselves into a corner... There are still more than a few possibilities in terms of games.

Paul starts at UNATCO some ten years before J.C., and we've got Walton Simons, Bob Page, Illuminati, several mechs... It's not like they don't exist.

mahmoudd
2nd Apr 2011, 23:26
If a team tackled remaking DX1 and did it on say, Cryengine 3, I'd probably offer up a kidney or my future first-born child.

it will just be a corridor heavily scripted shooter with cyberpunk scifi theme

Daedatheus
2nd Apr 2011, 23:33
Monster! :mad:

You're right... Cryengine 3 would make them focus too much on graphics resources and the gameplay would suffer.

:rasp:

TrickyVein
2nd Apr 2011, 23:39
I really don't think they've written themselves into a corner... There are still more than a few possibilities in terms of games.

Paul starts at UNATCO some ten years before J.C., and we've got Walton Simons, Bob Page, Illuminati, several mechs... It's not like they don't exist.

There's a whole history there between Everett and DuClare, the silhouette and the Illuminati that would make for an excellent game. It's a minefield of ideas. :thumb:

AlexOfSpades
3rd Apr 2011, 00:41
A game starring Walton Simons?

I would love that.

AgentOrange
3rd Apr 2011, 00:46
Formation of MJ12, formation of the NSF, Gray Death appearing worldwide, general's Carter story, creation of Daedalus, creation of Aquinas, PageIndustries becoming more important in the world (everyone talking only about it, meaning it grew very strong), creation of JC Denton 2 years later after DX:HR (Of course :)), etc...

AgentOrange
3rd Apr 2011, 00:51
A game starring Walton Simons?

I would love that.

That would be nice to know how he ended up working with MJ12 and what are his personal goals in this. And yes, about personal goals, I bet he wanted to kill Page in secret. He maybe even installed a virus into the Helios merger to kill Page...

I mean, I just can't imagine Simons working very loyally for Page (since I consider Simons more of a better "villain" in DX than Page). I bet he had some secret agenda about MJ12 :D

Angel-A
3rd Apr 2011, 00:57
I would adore seeing the next DX game have a female protagonist (I don't count IW since its more of an option, and male Alex is default). YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.

Shralla
3rd Apr 2011, 02:13
Formation of MJ12

That was like sixty years ago.

AgentOrange
3rd Apr 2011, 02:20
That was like sixty years ago.

I believe you are wrong. In the game, they say MJ12 was one with the Illuminati before. It's made when Page decides to "rebel" against the Illuminati and get power for himself. I don't think that, 60 years ago, Bob Page was even born...:hmm:

Shralla
3rd Apr 2011, 02:34
Hm. I thought the game was going with the commonly accepted theories of MJ12. I must have missed that part of the game in all of my playthroughs. Not really hard to miss stuff, though, in a game like Deus Ex.

I didn't know until last week that there was a medical bot in the first stack of crates on Liberty Island.

AgentOrange
3rd Apr 2011, 02:55
Hm. I thought the game was going with the commonly accepted theories of MJ12. I must have missed that part of the game in all of my playthroughs. Not really hard to miss stuff, though, in a game like Deus Ex.

I didn't know until last week that there was a medical bot in the first stack of crates on Liberty Island.

I believe you hear that from Morgan Everett when talking to him or some other characters. I didn't play DX for a while so I don't remember exactly who tells you that... I think Everett tells you that in his Paris home when he explains you what is MJ12 and their origins...

JCpies
3rd Apr 2011, 07:30
I would adore seeing the next DX game have a female protagonist (I don't count IW since its more of an option, and male Alex is default). YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES.

augmented sexy ass.


I didn't know until last week that there was a medical bot in the first stack of crates on Liberty Island.

I found that a few months ago! I beat you! Well, it was interesting finding it. And it kind of scared me.

imported_the_guy
3rd Apr 2011, 07:38
Hm. I thought the game was going with the commonly accepted theories of MJ12. I must have missed that part of the game in all of my playthroughs. Not really hard to miss stuff, though, in a game like Deus Ex.

I didn't know until last week that there was a medical bot in the first stack of crates on Liberty Island.

When I found the med bot in the stack of crates I hid in there for like, 5 minutes because I was scared of the NSF (come on, I was young!) :p

Ninjerk
3rd Apr 2011, 08:21
I believe you hear that from Morgan Everett when talking to him or some other characters. I didn't play DX for a while so I don't remember exactly who tells you that... I think Everett tells you that in his Paris home when he explains you what is MJ12 and their origins...

Majestic-12 existed before that, though. I doubt they intended for anyone to take seriously that it was a brand new entity rather than an existing organization that Page hijacked.

McFlabbergasty
3rd Apr 2011, 12:00
I'm thinking that if DX4 doesn't follow the continued adventures of Adam Jensen, then perhaps it should be about a character who gets physio-pharmaceutically augmented. He/she would not necessarily have to be a MIB/WIB, just a physio-aug agent of some sort.

Perhaps the game could depict the split between the Illuminati and MJ12, with the player choosing a side at some point in the plot?

NKD
3rd Apr 2011, 12:15
If there is a DX4 in the near future, i.e. from this studio, it will be about Adam Jensen. They aren't going to throw him out after one game. That said, if for whatever reason they do not pursue a sequel and some other studio later on has to pick it up, an Illuminati/MJ12 centered game might be interesting.

JCpies
3rd Apr 2011, 12:19
New focus for Deus Ex 4: Make as much money as possible, without enhancing the gameplay.

McFlabbergasty
3rd Apr 2011, 12:20
But if DX4 is about Jensen, won't that require the player to start the game with an array of super-powerful augs? I'm assuming that, not unlike JC near the end of DX1, AJ will have almost godlike power at the end of DXHR. Is "godlike power" the best way to start DX4? Unless AJ gets downgraded somehow, in which case the game will probably feel like a rehash of HR.

I think physio-augs would be interesting to explore. Maybe you get new abilities when you find a doctor who can implant an artificial gland in your system, rather than the machine-based approach of the other DX games.

auric
3rd Apr 2011, 12:23
I'm thinking that if DX4 doesn't follow the continued adventures of Adam Jensen, then perhaps it should be about a character who gets physio-pharmaceutically augmented. He/she would not necessarily have to be a MIB/WIB, just a physio-aug agent of some sort.

Perhaps the game could depict the split between the Illuminati and MJ12, with the player choosing a side at some point in the plot?

An ending that may lead to failure or not, depending on ur choice.

Go against Page, u lose or at least lost track of him, but save the remaining illuminati

Go with Page, well same result but ur on his side.
:D

Irate_Iguana
3rd Apr 2011, 12:28
But if DX4 is about Jensen, won't that require the player to start the game with an array of super-powerful augs?

EMP blasts, aug rot, rejection issues, computer virus, new hardware mounting standards or just the usual trope of unavoidable explosion, gunfights, workplace accidents and other such things. Since Adam relies on mechanical things instead of personal skills it is much easier to start off with a clean slate.

auric
3rd Apr 2011, 12:33
EMP blasts, aug rot, rejection issues, computer virus, new hardware mounting standards or just the usual trope of unavoidable explosion, gunfights, workplace accidents and other such things. Since Adam relies on mechanical things instead of personal skills it is much easier to start off with a clean slate.

Early prototype of the Grey Death, effecting Mechs.
or at least personally for Adam. BP have an eye on him.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
3rd Apr 2011, 13:08
Possibilities for DX 4 are endless, but I'd be surprised if we don't see Sam Carter and Manderley appointed to Unatco, if we haven't already in DX3.

I think AJ is unlikely to feature in DX4 other than as a cameo or opponent.

The trouble between Everett and Page would obviously make a great storyline.

Jordan Shea. Jordan is a lovable character.

McFlabbergasty
3rd Apr 2011, 13:59
Shadowrunner;1594286']Possibilities for DX 4 are endless, but I'd be surprised if we don't see Sam Carter and Manderley appointed to Unatco, if we haven't already in DX3.

I think AJ is unlikely to feature in DX4 other than as a cameo or opponent.



Maybe we'll finally get to see what all the fuss was about with the Merced operation.

biofuel
3rd Apr 2011, 14:15
For God's sakes, take the story into the realm of the old universe. Amp up the characters, make them come alive and leap off the page of the script of the plot. Have them be the focus of any new game, as one person said, an uber-machine Adam Jensen would be null and void up to a point. But when you're talking Jacobson, Reyes, Smuggler et al; these are real grounded folks who are depicted sublimey in the original. Deus Ex 4's primary focus could be equisitely fulfilled using this ideology as the basic terrain. Same goes for their part in the timeline. This is where you need to look, or thereabouts. You could do it a hundred ways or more.

imported_the_guy
3rd Apr 2011, 16:28
What about a game called -

Deus Ex - A Day In The Life Of Joseph Manderly (or DX:ADITLOJM for short)

Heres a gameplay picture

http://www.battlereports.com/users/Feanor/DXPart3/8%20manderley.jpg

JCpies
3rd Apr 2011, 16:50
Can't wait to do all that paper work! I hope there's no flashback of the old days when he wasn't at the desk, fighting missions will be pretty boring.

Reven
3rd Apr 2011, 17:32
Can't wait to do all that paper work! I hope there's no flashback of the old days when he wasn't at the desk, fighting missions will be pretty boring.

I wont be that bad, do paper work/ fight missions/ eat candy bars/ get talked down to by everyone on the holo unit and rap all day while flushing the toilet and throwing plantpots at people in the off hours...what a great game i can't wait.

Donvermicelli
3rd Apr 2011, 20:24
You know it would be interesting to see how someone with lights augs (someone not backed by giant corporations) or someone without augs at all fares in this kind of world. E.G. A private investigator in this universe, would be a cool idea for a new game in the series. Others that would be cool: Gunther's story, Paul's story

AgentOrange
8th Apr 2011, 21:49
Hm. I thought the game was going with the commonly accepted theories of MJ12. I must have missed that part of the game in all of my playthroughs. Not really hard to miss stuff, though, in a game like Deus Ex.

I didn't know until last week that there was a medical bot in the first stack of crates on Liberty Island.

0.o Sorry, just replayed the game and I noticed I forgot that MJ12 already existed since 1954. In 2030, the MJ12 only rebels against the Illuminati.

luy
16th Apr 2011, 14:59
You know it would be interesting to see how someone with lights augs (someone not backed by giant corporations) or someone without augs at all fares in this kind of world. E.G. A private investigator in this universe, would be a cool idea for a new game in the series. Others that would be cool: Gunther's story, Paul's story

I agree. Also could be a play about the advent of UNATCO and the split of the Illuminati and MJ12.

Deltaslayer
16th Apr 2011, 15:43
Since Adam relies on mechanical things instead of personal skills it is much easier to start off with a clean slate.

Wrong, he already have all mechanical augs available for him, he just need to "learn" how to use it.

JCpies
16th Apr 2011, 20:07
When I found the med bot in the stack of crates I hid in there for like, 5 minutes because I was scared of the NSF (come on, I was young!) :p

I guess I wasn't really scared, but whenever I heard someone swear on that game.... LOL.

AgentOrange
16th Apr 2011, 20:40
When I found the med bot in the stack of crates I hid in there for like, 5 minutes because I was scared of the NSF (come on, I was young!) :p

If you did that only because of the NSF, I wonder what did you do when you saw things like bots and transgenics (Grays/Karkians/Greasels) :p

JCpies
16th Apr 2011, 21:05
If you did that only because of the NSF, I wonder what did you do when you saw things like bots and transgenics (Grays/Karkians/Greasels) :p

MJ12 commandos were what scared me the most in Deus Ex. As soon as you were spotted *robotic voice* followed by a missile. Maybe kids think that the animals were cute, I sorta thought they were cool, it was kinda funny seeing them eat the MJ12 guards.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
16th Apr 2011, 21:40
If you did that only because of the NSF, I wonder what did you do when you saw things like bots and transgenics (Grays/Karkians/Greasels) :p

LOL.
I thought the Greasels were cute... still do. :D

Pinky_Powers
16th Apr 2011, 23:28
I farmed ragged street children as a source of food for my pet Greasles.

Angel-A
16th Apr 2011, 23:30
NSF? MJ12? I was never scared of anything. All of you are pathetic and weak.

AgentOrange
16th Apr 2011, 23:31
I was scared of...of...the evil maintenance man :eek:

But seriously, I'm surprised people can get scared at NSF troopers because they are simply...soldiers...that are easily defeated with one hit of a baton on the head :p

Jerion
17th Apr 2011, 01:24
MJ12 commandos were what scared me the most in Deus Ex. As soon as you were spotted *robotic voice* followed by a missile. Maybe kids think that the animals were cute, I sorta thought they were cool, it was kinda funny seeing them eat the MJ12 guards.

Only the karkians ever freaked me out. I was pretty young at the time though. :o

Senka
17th Apr 2011, 03:20
The voices on the MIB were pretty intimidating.

LOL.
I thought the Greasels were cute... still do. :D
yeah, the running / jumping animation they had was. Damn cute bastards. I cried manly tears as I cut them down with the dragontooth sword.

AgentOrange
17th Apr 2011, 03:24
The voices on the MIB were pretty intimidating.

Agreed, before reading the MiB agent class' files in MJ12 HQ under UNATCO, I thought they were robots because of their voice, way to talk, etc... :nut:

Senka
17th Apr 2011, 03:27
Yeah, the eyes too.. Maybe I'll make a MIB model in Zbrush sometime for a project. Should be fun, I just need to keep working on it.

TrickyVein
17th Apr 2011, 03:34
ZBrush = insanity.

Too much work. Too much detail. It's either the best thing or the worst thing for perfectionists.

I use it mainly to generate normal maps and polypaint character models. Building something from the ground up within ZBrush? Beyond me at this point.

Senka
17th Apr 2011, 04:00
Heh, could easily create the basemesh in 3dsmax or something else, build of a demo human body, or create the base shapes in shadowbox and go from there. Love polypaint and spotlight too. I'm still learning (downloading tuts, reading books, practising... ) cause I'm going for a scholarship and I need to produce a portfolio of 3d work and level design, things like that.

In fact, I should really do this. I wanted to create a baneling too. Maybe if I get stuff into gear I'll work up to doing a MIB and maybe a green greasy greasel.

Angel-A
17th Apr 2011, 13:37
I always though the MIB and Commando voices were cool. I tried to get them to talk as much as I could, heh.

The greasels were pretty cute. As for the karkians... I have to agree, it's scary when they go after you. It's always like that for me with those "beast bosses" in videos games that can kill you in one or two chomps. I nearly jumped out of my chair a few times. :(

imported_the_guy
17th Apr 2011, 14:25
But the baby karkians were nice, weren't they? :o
But the big bad karkians almost made me run out the room :(

Roger Mexico
18th Apr 2011, 10:20
Problem with IW's endings was that they give you basically the same three choices as the end of the first game:

1. Illuminati (restore the old human-based power structure)
2. Helios (rule the world yourself via computer augmentation)
3. Anarchy/ Dark Ages (level the power structure by destroying the tech it's based on)

I would go Omar just because it wasn't a rehash. It bothered me that if you didn't pick Helios you had to kill JC. I very seldom pick the Helios ending in DX1, so it was kind of a presumptuous/dick move on the devs' part to decide that JC had gone that way. Tong's case was always the most persuasive to me in the first game, so it was really galling that they decided to have him change his mind between games.

An idea I had once was to retcon it so that something "went wrong" just after you closed out on your chosen ending in IW, but basically each faction ended up in control of part of the world. So you'd have three/four parallel societies, each based on the principles of one of the IW factions. That way in the sequel you'd get to visit each society and see how things had actually worked out for each of them, based on their ideology.

Would have been cool to see a "DX2" that worked that way--IDK, Tong is the leader of a resistance movement based in the parts of the world that Helios didn't manage to take over (for some reason), the Illuminati are still skulking about in the shadows, and JC Denton has mysteriously disappeared with some kind of key to resolving it all.

Oh, well. Prequels it is. I guess I wouldn't mind playing a game set during the Second American Civil War that's used as an immediate backstory in DX 1.