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SPop
23rd Mar 2011, 19:27
http://www.shacknews.com/article/67899/nixxes-partnering-with-eidos-montreal

When asked whether or not the PC version was developed in-house, Dugas told Shack: "No. Well, it was done in-house, but with a partnership." According to Dugas, Eidos Montreal will utilize the services of Netherlands-based developer Nixxes Software BV to bring Human Revolution to PC gamers this August.


*Moderator Edit/FYI*


May 2011 Update:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouu5uYvP7co

Deus Ex: Human Revolution - The Nixxes connection explained



**


The facts are out there, and have been reiterated dozens of times on many forums and news posts. But sometimes doom and gloom occupy people's minds, kicking all reasoning out the door.

We stand by what JF said:

"All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to them. We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

As many people have said, Nixxes is very good at what they do. How good? Well...

I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 19:30
Their resume (http://www.nixxes.com/nixxes/projects) is surprisingly absent of First Person Shooters and RPGs.

Ilves
23rd Mar 2011, 19:33
0.o


Field trip!

uberajnn
23rd Mar 2011, 19:34
"For a number of years, Nixxes has been the go-to team for Eidos' multi-platform release calendar. Most recently, Nixxes helped deliver the PS3 and PC version of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, a "full featured PC port" of Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days, and porting the PS3 and PC versions of Tomb Raider Underworld."

This does not sound good at all. I've had the displeasure of testing one of these "ports", and it was absolutely horrendous. Mouse acceleration and mouse lag is definitely in. Expect poor menus and interface as well as limited customization of graphics.

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 19:38
"For a number of years, Nixxes has been the go-to team for Eidos' multi-platform release calendar. Most recently, Nixxes helped deliver the PS3 and PC version of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, a "full featured PC port" of Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days, and porting the PS3 and PC versions of Tomb Raider Underworld."

This does not sound good at all. I've had the displeasure of testing one of these "ports", and it was absolutely horrendous. Mouse acceleration and mouse lag is definitely in. Expect poor menus and interface as well as limited customization of graphics.

So consolization of the PC version is now confirmed.

Great job, EM! :lmao:

xaduha
23rd Mar 2011, 19:40
So, we have partial explanation to why there is no PC footage

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 19:42
Kayne and lynch 2

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9030/dfghfdfg.jpg

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 19:43
Uh oh...

nordoM
23rd Mar 2011, 19:45
Oh god! So the game is actually being ported from consoles to the PC after all?
Oh joy, I can't wait for a "PRESS START" to greet me on the DX:HR main menu on my PC.

oscarMike
23rd Mar 2011, 19:57
Am I the only one who, when was introduced to HR two years ago, read that IT WILL BE A PC EXCLUSIVE because of it's vast and enormous gameplay content!!!???? Only later was added that it would also be console playable!
Now we have come to a moment where HR turns to be console exclusive and a PC port!!

Exactly what kind of sabotage is this???

Trainwreck
23rd Mar 2011, 19:57
Confirmed: I will no longer be buying DX:HR.

Oh well, at least Skyrim looks be living up to its PC roots. Let's just hope they don't make any terribad decisions like Eidos Montreal did. I am not exaggerating when I say this, but this whole development cycle seems much more screwed up than Invisible War's ever did.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 20:01
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9030/dfghfdfg.jpg

http://www.dahmus.org/blogimg/fry-see-what-you-did-there.jpg





Oh god! So the game is actually being ported from consoles to the PC after all?
Oh joy, I can't wait for a "PRESS START" to greet me on the DX:HR main menu on my PC.

Yep. It definitely sounds like it is being ported instead of being developed at the same time as the consoles.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 20:07
Oh for God's sake.

Eidos Montreal, how can you possibly claim that the PC version is not a port when you're developing the console versions yourselves and outsourcing the PC version?

This is, without hyperbole, the worst news I've heard regarding this game, and shows the repeated assurances that the PC version wouldn't be a port for the out-and-out lies that they are. I'm not going to sugarcoat it: Eidos Montreal have actively lied to us about this. As far as I'm concerned, any measure of goodwill they've built up is now gone for me, and they'll have to perform a frakking miracle to get my money now.

Rainhands
23rd Mar 2011, 20:10
I don't see the big problem here. Fallout 3 and New Vegas were console ports that had big maps and endless hours of content. Whether you bought it on an XBOX or PC you would not be disappointed.

I hope they put 'press start' in the PC version. If you are so shallow as to recoil in disgust over a little mistake like that then you are a shallow gamer and would never appreciate Deus Ex anyway. The only issue that comes into play is graphics, but from the images we have already seen I would not get my hopes up. They are decent at least.

Whompa
23rd Mar 2011, 20:10
Oh for God's sake.

Eidos Montreal, how can you possibly claim that the PC version is not a port when you're developing the console versions and outsourcing the PC version?

This is, without hyperbole, the worst news I've heard regarding this game, and shows the repeated assurances that the PC version wouldn't be a port for the out-and-out lies that they are. I'm not going to sugarcoat it: Eidos Montreal have actively lied to us about this. As far as I'm concerned, any measure of goodwill they've built up is now gone for me, and they'll have to perform a frakking miracle to get my money now.

OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 20:13
OH MY GOD THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:lol:

Frak off. Sure this won't affect my real life in any significant way, but as far as news about this game goes, this pretty much is as bad as it gets. If you don't care, great for you, but there's no need for your snide comments.

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 20:13
I don't see the big problem here. Fallout 3 and New Vegas were console ports that had big maps and endless hours of content. Whether you bought it on an XBOX or PC you would not be disappointed.

They weren't ported by third party studios, however. And the portfolio of Nixxes doesn't look promising at all.

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:13
I don't see the big problem here. Fallout 3 and New Vegas were console ports that had big maps and endless hours of content. Whether you bought it on an XBOX or PC you would not be disappointed.

I hope they put 'press start' in the PC version. If you are so shallow as to recoil in disgust over a little mistake like that then you are a shallow gamer and would never appreciate Deus Ex anyway. The only issue that comes into play is graphics, but from the images we have already seen I would not get my hopes up. They are decent at least.

just look at the past of the studio responsible to port the game

dopenasty
23rd Mar 2011, 20:18
hahahahaahahahahahahahahhahah we win !!!!!!!!!! this news makes ME happy now i know i'm getting the BETTER experience .

Rindill the Red
23rd Mar 2011, 20:19
Wait... what the hell? Doesn't this go counter to absolutely everything that was said before?

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:20
hahahahaahahahahahahahahhahah we win !!!!!!!!!! this news makes ME happy now i know i'm getting the BETTER experience .

Dumbed down experience.

http://kamizole.blog.lemonde.fr/files/2008/02/maitre-capello.1202560670.jpg

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 20:20
Wait... what the hell? Doesn't this go counter to absolutely everything that was said before?

Welcome to Pee aRe. Besides...

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg

We don't know how it will turn out.:rolleyes:

MattAndersn
23rd Mar 2011, 20:21
So, does this mean Eidos Montreal is almost literally spreading their cheeks and crapping on PC gamers? They talk about not being able to handle three platforms so why not build it on PC and then port it to consoles?

Gordon_Shea
23rd Mar 2011, 20:23
Oh for God's sake.

Eidos Montreal, how can you possibly claim that the PC version is not a port when you're developing the console versions yourselves and outsourcing the PC version?

This is, without hyperbole, the worst news I've heard regarding this game, and shows the repeated assurances that the PC version wouldn't be a port for the out-and-out lies that they are. I'm not going to sugarcoat it: Eidos Montreal have actively lied to us about this. As far as I'm concerned, any measure of goodwill they've built up is now gone for me, and they'll have to perform a frakking miracle to get my money now.

And yet again Ashpolt proves he has no idea what he's talking about even when he's on the right side of the issue. Good Job! :nut:

What's troubling about this isn't the practice of using a sister studio for PC development. Farming out the PC or console builds to a third party generally results in better games because it means there's a dedicated team working concurrently with the core team on a dedicated PC build rather than simply porting the console build to the PC at the end of development like you would with, y'know, a port.

What's troubling about this is that the studio they're farming it out to is terrible.

oscarMike
23rd Mar 2011, 20:24
hahahahaahahahahahahahahhahah we win !!!!!!!!!! this news makes ME happy now i know i'm getting the BETTER experience .

Maybe if you ask EM kindly they could send you the OTHER BRAIN HEMISPHERE along with DX:HR...

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:26
And yet again Ashpolt proves he has no idea what he's talking about even when he's on the right side of the issue. Good Job! :nut:

What's troubling about this isn't the practice of using a sister studio for PC development. Farming out the PC or console builds to a third party generally results in better games because it means there's a dedicated team working concurrently with the core team on a dedicated PC build rather than simply porting the console build to the PC at the end of development like you would with, y'know, a port.

What's troubling about this is that the studio they're farming it out to is terrible.

try to play the games ported by that sister studio

the problem isn't using a "sister studio", but the one they have choosen

Gordon_Shea
23rd Mar 2011, 20:27
try to play the games ported by that sister studio

the problem isn't using a "sister studio", but the one they have choosen

That's... literally what I just said. Did you read my post at all?


What's troubling about this is that the studio they're farming it out to is terrible.

SageSavage
23rd Mar 2011, 20:35
The ohter problem is that contrary to earlier claims, the PC is obviously not the leading platform. That just became crystal clear.

zombieturtle01
23rd Mar 2011, 20:37
This is very worrying news. It seems almost official now that HR is indeed a port.

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:37
That's... literally what I just said. Did you read my post at all?



we both agree let's have a beer

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/8274/beerselectedforsure.jpg

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 20:37
I don't see why it's a terrible studio. As far as I can tell, they are engine-tweakers, not UI-porters. The only game on the list that I've played was TRU. The only PC-specific problem I've seen was controls. Best I can tell, these guys weren't responsible for controls. They were responsible for getting engine running on PC without crying like a little girl. They seem to have accomplished that. It doesn't run worse than on consoles on similar-range hardware, at least.

oscarMike
23rd Mar 2011, 20:40
The ohter problem is that contrary to earlier claims, the PC is obviously not the leading platform. That just became crystal clear.

A proper way by EM to treat a PC legacy! Outstanding work!!!:thumb:

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:46
I don't see why it's a terrible studio. As far as I can tell, they are engine-tweakers, not UI-porters. The only game on the list that I've played was TRU. The only PC-specific problem I've seen was controls. Best I can tell, these guys weren't responsible for controls. They were responsible for getting engine running on PC without crying like a little girl. They seem to have accomplished that. It doesn't run worse than on consoles on similar-range hardware, at least.

after thinking about it, you are right

they are not responsible of design decisions, or unless they are told to change the UI and some other gameplay elements to fit it on PC, following the documents delivered by EM

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 20:48
And yet again Ashpolt proves he has no idea what he's talking about even when he's on the right side of the issue. Good Job! :nut:

Or, alternatively, you didn't get my point.

The problem - aside from this "sister studio" not exactly having a stellar history, as you said - is that EM have decided that the "important" platforms, the ones worth their focus, are the consoles. The PC version is an afterthought that someone else can handle. And if you think that attitude won't carry over into decisions about the game itself, then prepare for a surprise come launch day.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 20:51
Ashpolt, the team works with an engine built for PS3/360, and tweaked by that same "sister studio". Wouldn't it make sense to have the same people make tweaks for PC version of the derived engine?

If you are taking this position, you should have started complaining back when TRU engine was chosen, because we already knew involvement of Nixxes.

IOS
23rd Mar 2011, 20:51
I don't see why it's a terrible studio. As far as I can tell, they are engine-tweakers, not UI-porters. The only game on the list that I've played was TRU. The only PC-specific problem I've seen was controls. Best I can tell, these guys weren't responsible for controls. They were responsible for getting engine running on PC without crying like a little girl. They seem to have accomplished that. It doesn't run worse than on consoles on similar-range hardware, at least.

This, I'm loling HARD at the overreactions from people who automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 20:52
This, I'm loling HARD at the overreactions from people who automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion.
Most of the time, they are right. This just happens to be a technical question, which people aren't as familiar with.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 20:53
If you are taking this position, you should have started complaining back when TRU engine was chosen, because we already knew involvement of Nixxes.

Did we? This is the first I recall hearing of it.

Also IIRC a lot of people did complain when the TRU engine was chosen, but for different reasons. :P

IOS
23rd Mar 2011, 20:54
Also, from the article:


In the upcoming interview, Dugas promises that the team at Eidos Montreal is very involved with the game's PC version. "All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to [Nixxes]," he told Shacknews. "We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

Still going to kill yourself over this news Ashpolt?

VectorM
23rd Mar 2011, 20:54
Their resume (http://www.nixxes.com/nixxes/projects) is surprisingly absent of First Person Shooters and RPGs.

They are not designing anything, just porting the game.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 20:56
Also, from the article:

Still going to kill yourself over this news Ashpolt?

Hurf durf, exaggeration is teh kewl.

But regardless, it's PR speak. The same PR speak that told us (initially) that PC was the focus, that the game wasn't dumbed down, that third person would be optional, and so on and so on and so on.

mahmoudd
23rd Mar 2011, 20:57
Or, alternatively, you didn't get my point.

The problem - aside from this "sister studio" not exactly having a stellar history, as you said - is that EM have decided that the "important" platforms, the ones worth their focus, are the consoles. The PC version is an afterthought that someone else can handle. And if you think that attitude won't carry over into decisions about the game itself, then prepare for a surprise come launch day.

when you think about it, the handling of the UI designs is in the hands of the original developper, but porting the game itself to PC takes lots of programmers who have experience with the engine used

i want to believe

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1412/sselectedlook.jpg

ArcR
23rd Mar 2011, 20:58
So, we have partial explanation to why there is no PC footage

Good point. :hmm:

All the more reason they need to give us a PC demo.

SageSavage
23rd Mar 2011, 20:58
Did we? This is the first I recall hearing of it.

Also IIRC a lot of people did complain when the TRU engine was chosen, but for different reasons. :P
Yes, we were sceptical about that decision a lot and I can't remember hearing of anything about another studio involved with a PC port (that word alone would have caused an uproar) either.

subtlesnake
23rd Mar 2011, 20:59
Oh for God's sake.

Eidos Montreal, how can you possibly claim that the PC version is not a port when you're developing the console versions yourselves and outsourcing the PC version?
It depends what you define as a 'port'. If they're developing both versions side-by-side, with the same creative involvement, then it's not a port in the traditional sense of the term. And that's what Dugas indicates in his quote:

"It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

"It was more of a logistic problem more than anything else and having enough people to make sure it's all on the same level, all the time. So, yeah. It was more about manpower and logistics."

http://www.shacknews.com/article/67899/nixxes-partnering-with-eidos-montreal


What I take from that is they wanted to develop all the platforms at the same time, but didn't have the manpower to do so, so some of the technical work is being done by another studio.

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 21:00
Also, from the article:

Gonna believe it when I see PC footage. We all know what they have been telling us all along.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 21:03
The information on TRU development was available. Fact that nobody bothered to look up who actually developed TRU engine is really not something we can blame anyone but ourselves.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 21:04
What I take from that is they wanted to develop all the platforms at the same time, but didn't have the manpower to do so, so some of the technical work is being done by another studio.

They didn't have enough manpower to develop all platform simultaneously, and chose to develop the console versions themselves. What does that tell you?

Either way, EM, developers of DXHR, are making the 360 and PS3 versions: someone else is making the PC one. That is, pretty much by definition, a port, even if it's not the traditional sense of the word.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 21:05
Hey, at least it's not Aspyr...

sonicsidewinder
23rd Mar 2011, 21:09
This information should have been given to us ages ago. Thats my biggest issue. It was all sneakily done and only now it's known.

hmm...still time to wait and see.

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 21:10
This information should have been given to us ages ago. Thats my biggest issue. It was all sneakily done and only now it's known.

hmm...still time to wait and see.

Another dev that kept their mouth shut until the last minute was Codemasters with Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising.

sonicsidewinder
23rd Mar 2011, 21:10
Another dev that kept their mouth shut until the last minute was Codemasters with Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising.

and we know how that turned out...

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 21:12
and we know how that turned out...

I know better than most. I was, and still am, a MASSIVE fan of the original OFP and I was tricked, like so many others, into buying OFPDR.

As a result, I have not bought a single CM product since and I never will again.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 21:12
This information should have been given to us ages ago.
Technically, it has been. When they told us they are working with TRU engine. Nobody simply bothered to follow through.

I still don't see why we should be concerned over this. I mean, sure, under different circumstance, but that's not what's going to bury the game. We already knew what attitude EM chose for developing this game over a year ago. We knew from the start that PC wasn't their focus. We knew from the start they aren't planning to treat Deus Ex fans seriously.

Seriously, it takes you this to realize that?

On the other hand, why am I complaining? Even if its this silly thing, it's still better that more people see what's going on. Still don't think we are going to do a dent in their sales, though. Not without some wide scale advertising campaign against the new game.

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 21:14
Not without some wide scale advertising campaign against the new game.

On it! :D

nordoM
23rd Mar 2011, 21:15
No matter if Nixxes is a good company or not, to me, this is just one more thing to worry about right now.
Will the port be well done? Will the mouse controls be sluggish? Will it have decently customisable graphics options i.e. more than "high - medium -low"? Can I rebind all the keyboard buttons? Etc...

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 21:20
On it! :D
If you have some ideas you can use help with, let me know.

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 21:21
Hey, at least it's not Aspyr...

I don't know the whole list of games Aspyr has contributed, but according to some paranoid conspirators Force Unleashed I and II were deliberate bad ports. Because Lucas Arts had announced that it was impossible to port the game to PC (http://www.videogamer.com/news/force_unleashed_dev_reacts_to_pc_gamer_outcry.html) (but of course they released Wii and PS2 versions) and releasing a good PC version would make them look bad, or something.


The information on TRU development was available. Fact that nobody bothered to look up who actually developed TRU engine is really not something we can blame anyone but ourselves.

Yet it's not something most people (i.e: us computer illiterates) would contrive to look it up by themselves. What we have known all along was that EM was developing the game simultaneously on three platforms, and that they were using a modified TRU engine.

Tecman
23rd Mar 2011, 21:21
No matter if Nixxes is a good company or not, to me, this is just one more thing to worry about right now.
Will the port be well done? Will the mouse controls be sluggish? Will it have decently customisable graphics options i.e. more than "high - medium -low"? Can I rebind all the keyboard buttons? Etc...
Let's be honest, those are the exact same worries you'd have even if it was done in-house as well.

Right now I'm going through the games Nixxes had a hand in to see how they run & behave on my rig.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 21:28
I don't know the whole list of games Aspyr has contributed, but according to some paranoid conspirators Force Unleashed I and II were deliberate bad ports. Because Lucas Arts had announced that it was impossible to port the game to PC (http://www.videogamer.com/news/force_unleashed_dev_reacts_to_pc_gamer_outcry.html) (but of course they released Wii and PS2 versions) and releasing a good PC version would make them look bad, or something.
I've played a number of Aspyr ports besides Force Unleashed. (I did not bother with II). They all suck. Perhaps, choice to have Aspyr handle the port was deliberate, but these are the guys who needed no additional arm-twisting to get them to make a bad port. I got FU on a major sale, and when I saw Aspyr logo, my exact thoughts were, "Alright, lets see how badly it blows." It's just Aspyr's way.

subtlesnake
23rd Mar 2011, 21:31
They didn't have enough manpower to develop all platform simultaneously, and chose to develop the console versions themselves. What does that tell you?

Either way, EM, developers of DXHR, are making the 360 and PS3 versions: someone else is making the PC one. That is, pretty much by definition, a port, even if it's not the traditional sense of the word.
They're developing both versions themselves (As Dugas says the creative team is the same). If they chose to outsource some of the PC art to another studio, is the resulting game now a port? Why is different if say, some of the technical aspects are outsourced?

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 21:32
Just saw Dark Sector in Aspyr's site and remembered reading about its widescreen fiasco. People with widescreen monitors had to play it pillarboxed. And the year is not 1998.

Anasumtj
23rd Mar 2011, 21:35
I still don't see why we should be concerned over this. I mean, sure, under different circumstance, but that's not what's going to bury the game. We already knew what attitude EM chose for developing this game over a year ago. We knew from the start that PC wasn't their focus. We knew from the start they aren't planning to treat Deus Ex fans seriously.

Seriously, it takes you this to realize that?

I believe it's something everybody knew or had likely guessed for themselves some time ago, but the sticking point for me is how it runs contrary to so many of EM's past assurances. When you say lead development of your game is on the PC or that all versions will be equal, it seems pretty shifty when it turns out you're farming it out to another studio. You can brush it off as a technicality, but EM isn't stupid. They know full well the ideas people are going to get when they make such statements and it's clear by this point that most of their attempt's at placating their PC audience were just damage control with little substance. I won't charge them with lying, but... misleading? It's deliberately obfuscating the real nature of development, for sure.

I think that's the my biggest gripe with EM. The sacrifices made for the game are one thing, but I'm none too keen on giving my money when so many of their assuaging claims eventually melt away into bull****.

Gordon_Shea
23rd Mar 2011, 21:38
Or, alternatively, you didn't get my point.

The problem - aside from this "sister studio" not exactly having a stellar history, as you said - is that EM have decided that the "important" platforms, the ones worth their focus, are the consoles. The PC version is an afterthought that someone else can handle. And if you think that attitude won't carry over into decisions about the game itself, then prepare for a surprise come launch day.

But they are unambiguously the most important platforms for this release because they're where the vast majority of legitimate buyers will play the game, and the experience absolutely should be optimized for consoles as a result. That was a given from the git go and if you didn't believe that then you're kind of immensely, cripplingly stupid.

But we already knew you were immensely, cripplingly stupid, so w/e.

*pop n locks out of this thread*

TrickyVein
23rd Mar 2011, 21:39
Have played LC:Legend and Anniversary; Guardian of Light and Underworld.

All decent ports, performance wise. No mouse lagging like in Dead space. Menus in anniversary felt like they were constructed for a PC user. Type sizes weren't obnoxiously large in Underworld.

Nothing has been lost here; was never being developed for PC, so it's a fallacy to compare the game to what might have been. So long as content isn't cut from the PC version, this changes nothing. In fact, I expect we'll get things like anti-aliasing and more graphics options. All of these were present in the Tomb Raider ports, in fact, Legend had an extra "next generation content" feature that I'm not sure was present in the console version - enabled normal mapping and other effects.

mentalkase
23rd Mar 2011, 21:46
As far as I can tell it sounds as if it's still fully up to EM to decide which pc exclusive features there are, it's Nixxes job to do as they're told and do their best to implement them. I'm going to wait and see some decent pc footage to decide whether EM are as serious about the pc as they claim.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 22:07
But they are unambiguously the most important platforms for this release because they're where the vast majority of legitimate buyers will play the game, and the experience absolutely should be optimized for consoles as a result.

PC games can sell as well as console games if they're treated properly as PC games from the start: see Starcraft 2, or (I'm more than willing to bet) the upcoming Portal 2. If multiplatform games don't sell as well on PC as on consoles, it's because the PC version is given the short end of the stick, as we're seeing here.


That was a given from the git go and if you didn't believe that then you're kind of immensely, cripplingly stupid.

But we already knew you were immensely, cripplingly stupid, so w/e.

This coming from a person who resorts to ad-hominem in lieu of making a proper point. I'd also like to see you back that up in any way, but hey, apparently you've "popped 'n' locked" out of the thread.

----

Anyway, sticking to the topic:

Regardless of the degree to which this negatively affects the game, this has shown that EM's statement that all version were being treated equally was a lie or, as Anasumtj pointed out, at very least deliberately misleading. I didn't have much faith to begin with that the PC version would be anything more than a cheap port, but what little faith I was willing to give has now gone. As such, here's what I'll need to see to even consider buying this game now:

-PC footage and screenshots, soon. And not EM's standard definition of soon, either - I mean in the next couple of weeks. The longer this news is left to fester without some kind of show of faith / evidence that it's not too bad, the worse it's going to get.

-A PC UI that's developed specifically for mouse and keyboard, not "here's the console UI, tweak it a bit until it's just about usable." Ideally it should be built from the ground up for M&K.

-No mouse acceleration.

-Widescreen running in hor+ at 16:10 or 16:9 (depending on your resolution) natively.

-A PC demo to demonstrate that the above are in place, and not later than the console demos.

-PC release not later than the console releases.

-If DX11 is really being implemented (not essential IMO, but it'd be nice) it should be on the disc, (and in the demo) not available as a downloadable patch after release - or even on day 1. Same with high resolution textures. (Looking at you, Crysis 2 and Dragon Age 2, respectively.)

-No disgustingly OTT DRM, a la Ubisoft. Steam is fine (for me - let's not get into that discussion again, please) so leave it at that.

Anything I've missed out that people can think of?

And a disclaimer for those of the herp derp persuasion, before you hit reply and capslock: I'm not making demands here, just informing EM that this is what I personally will need to see to restore any amount of faith in their product. It's advice rather than anything else, and obviously they're free to take it or leave it. I'm not speaking for anyone other than myself, though I expect a lot of PC gamers will probably feel the same way. I'm not claiming the game will fail without these things, I'm just saying without them, they won't get my sale - no more, no less. I'm not interested in getting into a debate over whether we will or won't get these things, I've just written my list. Read that? Still want to hit reply and tell me I'm a moron? Go for it, champ.

Arksun
23rd Mar 2011, 22:17
Call me crazy but I'm going to wait until we're actually shown a PC gameplay trailer before forming an opinion :)

sonicsidewinder
23rd Mar 2011, 22:20
I'd love some PC footage, pronto.

pha
23rd Mar 2011, 22:20
Regardless of the degree to which this negatively affects the game, this has shown that EM's statement that all version were being treated equally was a lie or, as Anasumtj pointed out, at very least deliberately misleading. I didn't have much faith to begin with that the PC version would be anything more than a cheap port, but what little faith I was willing to give has now gone. As such, here's what I'll need to see to even consider buying this game now:

-PC footage and screenshots, soon. And not EM's standard definition of soon, either - I mean in the next couple of weeks. The longer this news is left to fester without some kind of show of faith / evidence that it's not too bad, the worse it's going to get.

-A PC UI that's developed specifically for mouse and keyboard, not "here's the console UI, tweak it a bit until it's just about usable." Ideally it should be built from the ground up for M&K.

This is one of my biggest concerns.

-No mouse acceleration.

Also one of my biggest concerns.

-Widescreen running in hor+ at 16:10 or 16:9 (depending on your resolution) natively.

Since there was eyefinity footage (albeit bootleg instead of a genuine vid) I believe widescreen aspect ratios will be properly supported, with hor+, without black bars or stretching.

-A PC demo to demonstrate that the above are in place, and not later than the console demos.

Since they asked what people expect from a demo in the French blog, I believe they will release one, but maybe it won't come to PC's, after all PC gaming is dying we are all pirates. :rolleyes:

-PC release not later than the console releases.

That's very unlikely, but you never know...

-If DX11 is really being implemented (not essential IMO, but it'd be nice) it should be on the disc, (and in the demo) not available as a downloadable patch after release - or even on day 1. Same with high resolution textures. (Looking at you, Crysis 2 and Dragon Age 2, respectively.)

Honestly I'm not really concerned with the graphics, as long as there is AA, but I agree for the sake of convenience the game should be shipped with all graphical goodies they promised.

-No disgustingly OTT DRM, a la Ubisoft. Steam is fine (for me - let's not get into that discussion again, please) so leave it at that.

It uses Steamworks, no? Anything else would be daft, because we all know cracking games is not a matter of ethics, it's just a matter of time, and in the end the only ones who suffer are the buyers.

Anything I've missed out that people can think of?

Low default field of vision, intended for distant TV's instead of monitors on desks. Especially if they reset to default value during third person toggles.



Sorry, my responses in red because multiquoting takes too long.

oscarMike
23rd Mar 2011, 22:26
But they are unambiguously the most important platforms for this release because they're where the vast majority of legitimate buyers will play the game, and the experience absolutely should be optimized for consoles as a result. That was a given from the git go and if you didn't believe that then you're kind of immensely, cripplingly stupid.

But we already knew you were immensely, cripplingly stupid, so w/e.

*pop n locks out of this thread*


Why the insults mate??? The man is just stating the obvious! EM created the game initially for consoles and are giving it to another developer so they could adjust it for PC!!! At least that is crystal clear now!.. you are acting like this is something personal...

Gordon_Shea
23rd Mar 2011, 22:26
Protip, Ashpolt: The Internet is not debate club at Autism Junior High. :thumb:

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 22:35
That's it. **** must change. As of this moment, I'm publicly advocating software piracy!


This is the exact reason why Crysis 2 was developed for the console, because PC users steal more games than all other consoles combined. WHY would a developer feel any sense of loyalty to a minority group of players who mainly STEAL??????? I don't blame them at all.

SageSavage
23rd Mar 2011, 22:37
If you are on some kind of personal vendetta with Ashpolt, keep it to PMs, Gordon Shea. You're flaming.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 22:37
PC games can sell as well as console games if they're treated properly as PC games from the start: see Starcraft 2, or (I'm more than willing to bet) the upcoming Portal 2. If multiplatform games don't sell as well on PC as on consoles, it's because the PC version is given the short end of the stick, as we're seeing here.
That's the truth. And we've already talked about numbers that prove it in this forum.

This is the exact reason why Crysis 2 was developed for the console, because PC users steal more games than all other consoles combined. WHY would a developer feel any sense of loyalty to a minority group of players who mainly STEAL??????? I don't blame them at all.
So lets develop games for mentally challenged people. They don't know how to pirate games! Does that sound like a good business plan to you?

Actually, scratch that. This is exactly what's happening.

nameless1
23rd Mar 2011, 22:41
Why the insults mate??? The man is just stating the obvious! EM created the game initially for consoles and are giving it to another developer so they could adjust it for PC!!! At least that is crystal clear now!.. you are acting like this is something personal...

Well, he's probably one of those console fanboys.. the ones that start to spill their crap, everytime we have some legitimate issues with games, being ruined by a crap old boxes, and kiddies playing them..

Deus Ex is a classic PC game, and they treat us like this?!! I won't cancel my preorder because of this, but if I don't see some PC footage, or ideally play a demo before the release of the game, I will! I'm not willing to spend my money blindly on this, like I'm willing to do so in the case of Witcher 2..

Gordon_Shea
23rd Mar 2011, 22:50
Well, he's probably one of those console fanboys.. the ones that start to spill their crap, everytime we have some legitimate issues with games, being ruined by a crap old boxes, and kiddies playing them..
Pull the cheetos out of your many grease-glistening chins and get on with your life. :cool:


So lets develop games for mentally challenged people. They don't know how to pirate games! Does that sound like a good business plan to you?

Actually, scratch that. This is exactly what's happening.

Actually it's kind of the opposite because you're asking them to reshape their development and marketing strategy to suit the capricious whims of blubbering autistics as opposed to selling to consoles, which are more likely to be owned and played by well-adjusted people who have better uses for $2000 than a gaming computer.

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 22:51
PC games can sell as well as console games if they're treated properly as PC games from the start: see Starcraft 2, or (I'm more than willing to bet) the upcoming Portal 2. If multiplatform games don't sell as well on PC as on consoles, it's because the PC version is given the short end of the stick, as we're seeing here.


This is an unfair comparison, because it's a system exclusive, so the sales number of 11 million copies is inflated from console players who wanted it as well. It was also pirated 2.3 million times, which means that even with the inflation, roughly 20% of sales were stolen. I wouldn't consider losing 1/5 of my stock to a selling base as a success.

If you want a fair product to judge, look at modern warfare 2 and black ops. On pc those two games alone were pirated 8.37 million times.

Edit: K^2, if your going to act like an immature elitist brat, I'm not going to argue this with you. Stealing games doesn't make you smart and console players mentally challenged, it just puts you on the exact same level as lowlife crooks who steal anything else in this world.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 22:52
roughly 20% of sales were stolen

They weren't stolen. They were copied without permission.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 22:53
BigBoss, why are you counting these as losses? What evidence do you have that most of these 2.3 million pirates had funds to buy the game in the first place?

K^2, if your going to act like an immature elitist brat, I'm not going to argue this with you
Show me a reason not to act elitist, then. A far as being immature, "Na, na, na, na, na, I can't hear you," is #1 on the list.

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 22:59
BigBoss, why are you counting these as losses? What evidence do you have that most of these 2.3 million pirates had funds to buy the game in the first place?

Show me a reason not to act elitist, then. A far as being immature, "Na, na, na, na, na, I can't hear you," is #1 on the list.

If you need a reason to not act elitist, then that is truly pathetic. And the fact that someone should be entitled to steal just because they can't afford something is the worst, ass backwards logic I have ever heard. Seriously, try using that in real life and steal something else....

sonicsidewinder
23rd Mar 2011, 22:59
This is getting out of hand.

ZakKa89
23rd Mar 2011, 23:03
Nooooooooooooooooooooo, I am extremely worried right now.
What should I do?

Guess I won't pre-order then... This is just. omg worse news since what? since.. I am speechless **** this

Wait, the do say this:
In the upcoming interview, Dugas promises that the team at Eidos Montreal is very involved with the game's PC version. "All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to [Nixxes]," he told Shacknews. "We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

Well lets hope for the best. To be fair, Lara croft and the guardian of light was amazing on PC. I just don't think these guys have the experience to port such a heavy/big/complex title like DEHR

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 23:04
This is an unfair comparison, because it's a system exclusive, so the sales number of 11 million copies is inflated from console players who wanted it as well.

It's still a perfectly fair figure, because it sold that many copies: there are that many people who wanted to buy the game, and were willing to do so on PC. If I said that, say, Halo 3's sales figures weren't fair because it's 360 exclusive, and so includes PC and PS3 gamers who wanted it as well, would you agree? No, because that point is irrelevant. The important factor here is that there are a huge number of people willing to buy games on PC: the fact that those people may also own other consoles is irrelevant to that fact.


It was also pirated 2.3 million times, which means that even with the inflation, roughly 20% of sales were stolen. I wouldn't consider losing 1/5 of my stock to a selling base as a success.

This is the kind of short-sighted analysis that leads to the "piracy is killing the PC industry" mindset in the first place. A pirated copy does not necessarily equal a lost sale. How many of those people then went on to buy the game once they'd judged that they liked it? How many people would never have bought it in the first place, even if piracy wasn't possible? How many of those 2.3 million are repeat downloads because someone's hard drive died, or their first download was corrupted, etc? 2.3 million pirated copies is not the same thing as 2.3 million lost sales.


If you want a fair product to judge, look at modern warfare 2 and black ops. On pc those two games alone were pirated 8.37 million times.

All the same factors as above apply. Plus, the reason they were pirated so highly is because MW2 was a terrible, terrible PC game, and a lot of the lost faith carried over to Black Ops - even though it fixed some of the issues people had with MW2 (reintroducing dedicated servers being the primary one,) PC gamers had lost faith in the series by that point. Also, despite those high piracy numbers, both games still sold very well on PC. What's better: 4 million PC sales and 4 million PC pirated copies, or 0 PC sales and 0 PC pirated copies? Hint: One of them gets you 4 million & RRP. The other gets you nothing.

I am completely and utterly against piracy, I should point out. I have pirated one game in my life, and that's simply because I couldn't get a legitimate copy of it anywhere. The fact is though that while piracy is undoubtedly a problem, it's not the death of the industry that certain devs claim it to be. If a game like Starcraft 2 can sell 11 million copies (I hadn't heard that figure incidentally, thanks for that if it's true) then it proves that there's a big PC market out there, and if developers aren't seeing those kind of sales themselves, they need to look at what's wrong with their own product rather than chasing boogiemen.

IOS
23rd Mar 2011, 23:15
Hey guys, full interview is up:

http://www.shacknews.com/article/67902/interview-deus-ex-human-revolution-1

"Shacknews: Our community is filled with PC devotees, so I need to ask about the PC version, specifically. This is a franchise that began on the PC, and some would argue it thrived on PC considering the mixed reaction to Invisible War, which also made its way to console. How much care has been given to the PC version?

Jean-François Dugas: I can tell the PC fans that, actually in the office when I'm playing the game I don't play on Xbox 360 or PS3, I play on the PC. It's shaping out to be very good. It's on the same level as the other platforms. There are a few things that we'll discuss later, but we adapted stuff because it's on PC. Especially in the interface department.

Shacknews: So, the UI is different on the PC?

Jean-François Dugas: I mean slightly different. Not totally different. So it doesn't feel like a port of a console game. We didn't want that. It's the three platforms that are being pushed at the same time. PC? We're going to talk about it eventually."

That oughta shut up some of the neckbeard PC fanboys in this topic

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 23:16
What I'm reading is, "Yes, it's a port. We just don't want people to know it's a port."

oscarMike
23rd Mar 2011, 23:17
If you need a reason to not act elitist, then that is truly pathetic. And the fact that someone should be entitled to steal just because they can't afford something is the worst, ass backwards logic I have ever heard. Seriously, try using that in real life and steal something else....

Do you have any idea how many people are downloading various movies, clips, music, books, pictures, comics, games as we speak???

Are you implying that AT LEAST 50% of people worldwide are thieves????

No man, that's just internet.

Welcome to the future..

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 23:17
This is the kind of short-sighted analysis that leads to the "piracy is killing the PC industry" mindset in the first place. A pirated copy does not necessarily equal a lost sale. How many of those people then went on to buy the game once they'd judged that they liked it? How many people would never have bought it in the first place, even if piracy wasn't possible? How many of those 2.3 million are repeat downloads because someone's hard drive died, or their first download was corrupted, etc? 2.3 million pirated copies is not the same thing as 2.3 million lost sales.


Let me try and explain why this isn't how you look at it from a sales perspective though.

You have a product for digital download. Great, limitless stock at the cost of almost nothing, but you are still facing the other half of economic scarcity, which are buyers. Since 11 million copies were sold, that means that 11 million people wanted your product. But then 2.3 mill were stolen, which means that 2.3 million MORE people wanted your product, which brings the total to 13.3 million people who want what you have. BUT one fifth of people who want your product don't pay you for it, so what would you call that portion of red on the pie chart when looking at your total amount of product moved?

This is the same reasoning that devs use for calculating loss in used games (epic games etimates that roughly half their revenue is lost from this market) but I am not against the practice of used games, since you are getting the quality of something at a proportional price, and the market could easily be snuffed out if devs weren't retarded and worked with the likes of gamestop or amazon or whatever, so it's their loss.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 23:18
What I'm reading is, "Yes, it's a port. We just don't want people to know it's a port."

This. Exactly this.

IOS
23rd Mar 2011, 23:20
Also wtf, how is talking about pirating the game not against the rules? Something that is actually illegal is okay, yet if I insult somebody, everyone reports my post like little girls? Strong double standards.

Tverdyj
23rd Mar 2011, 23:21
Hey guys, full interview is up:

http://www.shacknews.com/article/67902/interview-deus-ex-human-revolution-1

"Shacknews: Our community is filled with PC devotees, so I need to ask about the PC version, specifically. This is a franchise that began on the PC, and some would argue it thrived on PC considering the mixed reaction to Invisible War, which also made its way to console. How much care has been given to the PC version?

Jean-François Dugas: I can tell the PC fans that, actually in the office when I'm playing the game I don't play on Xbox 360 or PS3, I play on the PC. It's shaping out to be very good. It's on the same level as the other platforms. There are a few things that we'll discuss later, but we adapted stuff because it's on PC. Especially in the interface department.

Shacknews: So, the UI is different on the PC?

Jean-François Dugas: I mean slightly different. Not totally different. So it doesn't feel like a port of a console game. We didn't want that. It's the three platforms that are being pushed at the same time. PC? We're going to talk about it eventually."

That oughta shut up some of the neckbeard PC fanboys in this topic

so, he's saying: "we're trying to make PC version as good as the consoles. honest. we might even get there".

except, I don't want to pay for a console game. if I did, i'd buy a console.

IOS
23rd Mar 2011, 23:22
Actually it IS against the rules:


Rule #2: Do not post about or refer to warez, illegal software, or any product that promotes copyright infringement.

Do not link to illegal software, post about it, or suggesting getting it. Furthermore, we will not tolerate posts that encourage people to violate copy protection by referring them to sites that have copy protection codes publicized. Any such post that promotes or informs someone about any product that is in a violation of a copyright will be removed from our forums immediately, and the appropriate action will be taken against the violator's account.

Time to give all the little girls marking my posts a taste of their own medicine. I will be marking every post that mentions pirating the game. Enjoy your bans, ladies!

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 23:23
That oughta shut up some of the neckbeard PC fanboys in this topic

So close to a decent post until the pointless ad-hominem. Don't you see that your post would've been much stronger without that?

Anyway, that's just the same old BS PRspeak we've been hearing for years - he's hardly going to come out and say "Oh no, the PC version's terrible, it was a real afterthought for us" is he?

I'll start to believe the PC version isn't a lazy port when they actually show screens and footage of it, and actually believe it when I play a demo (assuming quality in both instances, of course.) At this point, anything that comes out of the mouth of an EM employee that doesn't have hard evidence to back it up isn't worth the paper it isn't printed on.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
23rd Mar 2011, 23:36
No more piracy discussion please. Now I have to delete more posts. :hmm:

You know what... please don't expect mods to do all the work around here.
We will not continue to delete posts that author knows (or should know) violates the ToU.
We'll just ban instead. Much quicker.
Yes, seriously.


So, everyone, please read and understand the ToU (rule No.2 is a good place to begin) - or don't be surprised if you find yourself temp-banned without warning.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 23:38
Anybody willing to take bets on whether or not EM will comment on this?

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 23:38
So how about that local sports team?

BigBoss
23rd Mar 2011, 23:43
Great, now it looks like I double posted

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 23:43
Anybody willing to take bets on whether or not EM will comment on this?

Absolutely! I bet you one picture of a cute kitten that they'll comment on it - not immediately, it'll be a couple of days I expect - in the form of more condescending PR speak that has absolutely no substance. They may, if we're very, very lucky, promise PC screens and footage "soon," but definitely won't give a particular timeframe.

[EDIT] Can I point out that none of the posts about piracy on here were actually against the TOU? Let's look at what the TOU says:


Rule #2: Do not post about or refer to warez, illegal software, or any product that promotes copyright infringement.

Do not link to illegal software, post about it, or suggesting getting it. Furthermore, we will not tolerate posts that encourage people to violate copy protection by referring them to sites that have copy protection codes publicized. Any such post that promotes or informs someone about any product that is in a violation of a copyright will be removed from our forums immediately, and the appropriate action will be taken against the violator's account.

We weren't advocating it - that's the important one very clear and out of the way. We weren't linking to it or suggesting getting it. We weren't actually posting about illegal software either, but instead discussing piracy itself on a conceptual level. It's obvious that this rule is in place to stop people spreading pirate copies of games, which definitely wasn't the case here. How was our discussion against the TOU, exactly?

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 23:47
Anybody willing to take bets on whether or not EM will comment on this?

I think EM's default position will be, "If we ignore the problem long enough, maybe it will go away."

However, due to the universal dislike of Highlight-Gate, as well as the announcement that the PC version is being developed by a third party, I would imagine that EM will have to say something.

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 23:48
Absolutely! I bet you one picture of a cute kitten that they'll comment on it - not immediately, it'll be a couple of days I expect - in the form of more condescending PR speak that has absolutely no substance. They may, if we're very, very lucky, promise PC screens and footage "soon," but definitely won't give a particular timeframe.

Alright, but given EM's track record I can't give you very good odds. You're looking at a payout of a decent lolcat at best.

K^2
23rd Mar 2011, 23:49
I'm going to re-iterate.

When numbers of games being pirated are quoted, there is absolutely no consideration to the actual number of sales being lost, and benefits of free advertising are not accounted for. While I agree that there are probably losses, the evidence that piracy causes a significant loss to the PC market does not exist.

To say that the publishers are right to ignore the PC as a platform because of the losses they take on piracy is idiotic at best. You have no idea how much they are actually loosing. To my knowledge, nobody does, because it's more convenient for publishers to use it as an excuse to introduce more and more draconian measures if public believes that losses are enormous.

And again, this discussion does not violate TOUs, as it DOES NOT promote piracy, and it DOES NOT recommend someone to pirate a game. It's a discussion of effects of piracy on the industry.

Ashpolt
23rd Mar 2011, 23:52
Alright, but given EM's track record I can't give you very good odds. You're looking at a payout of a decent lolcat at best.

Ah damn, I could've got better odds here, but because I'm not that must mean I'm making a net loss of cute kitten pictures, right?

[EDIT] Can I also just say that while this is crap news for the game, it's done the forum a world of good - I've not seen it this busy on here in ages! it's about time we had some vaguely interesting discussions. I've been so wrapped up in this that I've forgotten to have dinner, and it's now nearly midnight. :P

Irate_Iguana
23rd Mar 2011, 23:54
Ah damn, I could've got better odds here, but because I'm not that must mean I'm making a net loss of cute kitten pictures, right?

The problem is the conversion factor from kittens to lolcats. Lolcats are universally accepted currency, while kitten pictures are a restricted commodity.

Tecman
23rd Mar 2011, 23:54
Ah damn, I could've got better odds here, but because I'm not that must mean I'm making a net loss of cute kitten pictures, right?
How about you skip all the words and just go for the cute kitten pictures :) Because this board could use some right now.

Just for the love of all that is holy, don't do lolcats.

MechBFP
23rd Mar 2011, 23:56
This has in development for a long time, and from the polish I have seen so far I am fairly optimistic the PC controls/interface won't get the shaft. I agree though, I have no intentions of buying until I know more about this issue (whether it be from EM or a reviewer after the game gets released).

I tend to be pretty slack when it comes to bugs and whatnot, but a sloppy port is a HUGE no-no to me. For example, the Ghost Busters game that came out awhile ago. I want to play it, but refused to buy it because it is a sloppy port.

I don't fund that ****, period. A proper port is NOT a difficult task and it is NOT time consuming (compared to the rest of the development time). I have personally done ports, multiple times.

A bad port is nothing but a case of extreme laziness and developers should feel ultimate shame for making one.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
23rd Mar 2011, 23:57
And again, this discussion does not violate TOUs, as it DOES NOT promote piracy, and it DOES NOT recommend someone to pirate a game. It's a discussion of effects of piracy on the industry.

I trust my reply to your PM is self-explanatory?
So, I will ask kindly again... please can we drop the discussion about piracy. The thread topic is "PC version of DX:HR also being developed by 'partner studio'".

Deus_Ex_Machina
23rd Mar 2011, 23:57
Just for the love of all that is holy, don't do lolcats.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/funny-pictures-the-internet-is-a-series-of-tubes.jpg

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 00:01
@MyImmortal: Can you send me the reply you sent to K^2 please, because I made much the same point on the previous page?


How about you skip all the words and just go for the cute kitten pictures :) Because this board could use some right now.

Just for the love of all that is holy, don't do lolcats.

OK, Tecman, just because it's you and you are the fountain of all DXHR related knowledge! (And because in your SA post you mentioned that I have a habit of writing really long posts, which I'm going to choose to take as a compliment, even if it wasn't meant that way!)

Click on the thumbs for full size, second is an animated gif:

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/Ashpolt2/th_growncat.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/Ashpolt2/?action=view&current=growncat.jpg) http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/Ashpolt2/th_catbed.gif (http://s1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/Ashpolt2/?action=view&current=catbed.gif)

3rdmillhouse
24th Mar 2011, 00:03
"For a number of years, Nixxes has been the go-to team for Eidos' multi-platform release calendar. Most recently, Nixxes helped deliver the PS3 and PC version of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light, a "full featured PC port" of Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days, and porting the PS3 and PC versions of Tomb Raider Underworld."

This does not sound good at all. I've had the displeasure of testing one of these "ports", and it was absolutely horrendous. Mouse acceleration and mouse lag is definitely in. Expect poor menus and interface as well as limited customization of graphics.

Tombraider Underworld on PS3 is actually pretty good.


Am I the only one who, when was introduced to HR two years ago, read that IT WILL BE A PC EXCLUSIVE because of it's vast and enormous gameplay content!!!???? Only later was added that it would also be console playable!
Now we have come to a moment where HR turns to be console exclusive and a PC port!!

Exactly what kind of sabotage is this???

HR has always been anounced as multi-platform from the get go.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
24th Mar 2011, 00:04
@MyImmortal: Can you send me the reply you sent to K^2 please, because I made much the same point on the previous page?


Certainly:



I discussed this with Keir ages ago and he told me what is obvious... once a discussion regarding piracy begins, no matter how constructive and sensible it may be, or originally intended to be by OP, OTHER people come into the threads and start making dumb and obvious comments that encourage pirating, or makes light of its illegal points. So, we agreed that it is best to nip it all in the bud asap, because it is impossible to draw the line simply because not everyone is "mature".
Hope that is explanation enough, but feel free to PM Keir if you need further clarification. I'm only doing my job.

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 00:05
Certainly:

Fair enough. Can't say I agree, but at least it wasn't just a knee-jerk reaction. Suggest the ToU should be updated accordingly?

[EDIT]


HR has always been anounced as multi-platform from the get go.

No it wasn't. For a long time after the announcement in 2007 (all the way up until the first pre-rendered trailer last Feb or thereabouts, I believe) EM's official stance was that they were only willing to confirm the PC version. It suggests multi-plat, sure, but it was definitely not announced as such.

BigBoss
24th Mar 2011, 00:05
@MyImmortal: Can you send me the reply you sent to K^2 please, because I made much the same point on the previous page?


Me three because I'm a rubbernecker?

Edit: nvm, just read the post

H.D.Case
24th Mar 2011, 00:07
Uh... I know you went all red, and see red, and all, so there is no stoping you, but has it occured to you at all that if Nixxes worked on Project Snowblind, which was initially meant to be another Deus Ex, but in the end just incorporated some of its ideas (and as I have written here some time ago, even the plot outline is similar to the one of DX:HR), then maybe it has something to do with that? You know, a company that worked on a DX game to be, its experience and being in the topic, a new dev using the same ideas. Huh? Plausible? ;)

Deus_Ex_Machina
24th Mar 2011, 00:07
Me three because I'm a rubbernecker?

ycM7nuVxxAU

MechBFP
24th Mar 2011, 00:07
Suggest the ToU should be updated accordingly?

I vote the motion passes.

Tecman
24th Mar 2011, 00:10
Thanks, Ash. :)

And I stand behind my statement on SA, btw. Some of your lengthy posts are awesome and informative, but some could have been... condensed and still say the exact same thing. :)

(says the guy maintaining a ridiculously lengthy opening post, I know, I know...)

Edit: Oh, by the way, the entire Nixxes thing... It made me play (or at least try to play for a bit) the games they've ported, and it's kind of interesting:
- The Tomb Raider games ran silky smooth and had sufficient options to set I guess. Back in the day, Underworld gave me a lot of headache but it seems that something I've done since then has removed that issue altogether. No more crashy-crash!
- Guardian of Light, for some reason, has a mouse which behaves really oddly. Which is strange, since pretty much everyone I spoke to regarding the issue told me it ran and felt awesome. Localized issue? Dunno yet. Otherwise it's stable with a solid framerate.
- Kane & Lynch 2 actually ran much better than I expected, even with SSAO turned on, it just had this weird habit of having its framerate dive in certain sections for a small while. I suspect it's just that more sensitive to AVs working in the background, like ME1 on my machine as another example. Won't comment on the game itself aside from maybe "interesting visual experiment, kinda lousy game".

I'd say that, aside from maybe feeling a little bit cheated regarding previous statements, nothing has really changed. It's just that now, instead of worrying if EM will be doing a solid PC version, we're including another company in the equasion but having to worry about the exact same things like before.

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 00:12
And I stand behind my statement on SA, btw. Some of your lengthy posts are awesome and informative, but some could have been... condensed and still say the exact same thing. :)

Guilty as charged. I like to ramble. :D

Metamag
24th Mar 2011, 00:56
Wow, so this game might actually turn out to be worse than Invisible War.

Consoles, the bane to the gaming industry.

IOS
24th Mar 2011, 01:03
Wow, so this game might actually turn out to be worse than Invisible War.

Consoles, the bane to the gaming industry.

My god, the hivemind in this forum is ridiculous.

K^2
24th Mar 2011, 01:04
Resistance is futile.

MechBFP
24th Mar 2011, 01:05
My god, the hivemind in this forum is ridiculous.

Welcome to the Internet!

Gaunt88
24th Mar 2011, 01:10
Wow, so this game might actually turn out to be worse than Invisible War.
Consoles, the bane to the gaming industry.

Pretty sure those two statements qualify for copy-paste, right?

Cos they're not exactly original thoughts :hmm:

MattAndersn
24th Mar 2011, 01:21
Why the hell would he think that PC gamers would want the PC version to be on the same level as the console versions?

Deus_Ex_Machina
24th Mar 2011, 01:26
Why the hell would he think that PC gamers would want the PC version to be on the same level as the console versions?

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5593/dugaslaugh.gif

andysk8
24th Mar 2011, 01:27
Interesting post on Twitter:

@actionhp: All the talk about the PC version being just a port is really sad, you guys need to give us some PC details soon.
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): Did we say it was just a port?

http://twitter.com/#!/Jeffachoo/status/50718616559165440

pha
24th Mar 2011, 01:29
Too vague.

H.D.Case
24th Mar 2011, 01:32
My god, the hivemind in this forum is ridiculous.

Ridiculous? Doh! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJQpJ-14GQshttp://)
Although, I kind of strayed a bit in this topic. Not that I do not think that consoles are evil. They are, dear fellow typers, they are. Everything for consoles is overpriced. Plus, the console games get simplifasdd wadaq gah, no more about it!
Although, some say (or was it some perv in the past saying so maybe :scratch:) that games are not to be understood, they are to be loved :p

BTW, Ashpolt, I was pretty much surprised to see my sig at your sig spot. When I was checking the messages from the bottom of the page, I was like "wait, I did not write this" and then it was all like "aaaahh, so it wasn't me anyway" :D

ShadowXOR
24th Mar 2011, 02:10
Frak off. Sure this won't affect my real life in any significant way, but as far as news about this game goes, this pretty much is as bad as it gets. If you don't care, great for you, but there's no need for your snide comments.

There's no need for your snide comments either, but they're always here. 2,000+ posts worth of them. :mad2:

free2game
24th Mar 2011, 02:31
It seems like repeating mistakes to me. The problem with DXIW was that it was completely designed around consoles, and it was scaled back so much from the original. I don't think developers realize that every time a PC shooter has moved to being multiplatform, it's been a port and pretty much killed the franchise on the PC. Quake 4, Wolfenstein, FEAR 2, Unreal Tournament 3, Rainbow Six Lockdown, Operation Flashpoint 2, etc etc. All bad sequels designed around consoles that killed off the original audience the previous one had. Develops don't seem to realize that's why people go so crazy about it when they hear the PC version is a port. They probably don't actually play PC games anymore and haven't played any of those and been hugely disappointed by them like most of us have.

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 02:47
There's no need for your snide comments either, but they're always here. 2,000+ posts worth of them. :mad2:

I may occasionally be a bit snide, but I always stick to the topic (not necessarily the original topic, but wherever the debate has landed at the point that I post) and debate the points rather than the people making them. Don't believe me? Find me a post that disproves this. And send it to me via PM, as this is massively off-topic.


BTW, Ashpolt, I was pretty much surprised to see my sig at your sig spot. When I was checking the messages from the bottom of the page, I was like "wait, I did not write this" and then it was all like "aaaahh, so it wasn't me anyway" :D

Someone else mentioned it in another topic, it's a great line! If you'd like me to take it off so I'm not copying you though, I will. :)

ShadowXOR
24th Mar 2011, 03:20
I may occasionally be a bit snide, but I always stick to the topic (not necessarily the original topic, but wherever the debate has landed at the point that I post) and debate the points rather than the people making them. Don't believe me? Find me a post that disproves this. And send it to me via PM, as this is massively off-topic.



Someone else mentioned it in another topic, it's a great line! If you'd like me to take it off so I'm not copying you though, I will. :)

I'll admit you're better than most of what I deem the haters, and it was probably uncalled for this time, my apologies. I just feel like I'm drowning in a sea of negativity and there's no room for positive comments. It's frustrating.

K^2
24th Mar 2011, 03:26
You can make positive comments. We don't bite.

xaduha
24th Mar 2011, 03:27
What is there to be positive about?
If you have some positive comments stashed away - please reveal them, we'll make some room :lol:
Here you go Safe Haven (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117178)

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 03:37
I'll admit you're better than most of what I deem the haters, and it was probably uncalled for this time, my apologies. I just feel like I'm drowning in a sea of negativity and there's no room for positive comments. It's frustrating.

Well, thanks for that degree of recognition, at least. I agree that the atmosphere on here can be overwhelmingly negative at times, but it's people from both sides of the fence (with regards to the game) that create that atmosphere, not just the "haters."

There's definitely room for positivity regarding the game on here, but you've got to accept that not everyone will agree with it, and respect those people's viewpoints even if you don't agree with them. It's one thing to debate a person's point, but another entirely to just say they're wrong and insult them. Threads like this, for example, are never going to do anything other than cause an argument. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117176) A healthy debate back and forth doesn't create an unpleasant atmosphere, even if the two sides disagree entirely: however, telling someone that their opinion is out and out wrong, insulting them and failing to make an actual point will quickly make the atmosphere toxic. When it comes to creating a pleasant atmosphere, how you make your point is far more important than whether you're right or wrong.

Gaunt88
24th Mar 2011, 03:48
Well, thanks for that degree of recognition, at least. I agree that the atmosphere on here can be overwhelmingly negative at times, but it's people from both sides of the fence (with regards to the game) that create that atmosphere, not just the "haters."

There's definitely room for positivity regarding the game on here, but you've got to accept that not everyone will agree with it, and respect those people's viewpoints even if you don't agree with them. It's one thing to debate a person's point, but another entirely to just say they're wrong and insult them. Threads like this, for example, are never going to do anything other than cause an argument. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117176) A healthy debate back and forth doesn't create an unpleasant atmosphere, even if the two sides disagree entirely: however, telling someone that their opinion is out and out wrong, insulting them and failing to make an actual point will quickly make the atmosphere toxic. When it comes to creating a pleasant atmosphere, how you make your point is far more important than whether you're right or wrong.

Well said, although I've found that debates where both sides dissagree entirely and neither one is likely to budge get very frustrating, very fast, which makes people more likely to start throwing insults around.


I'll admit you're better than most of what I deem the haters, and it was probably uncalled for this time, my apologies. I just feel like I'm drowning in a sea of negativity and there's no room for positive comments. It's frustrating.

I know the feeling. Sometimes I can't help but think, I have these positive things I'd like to say, but I know that I'll most likely be shouted down/scoffed at/dismissed/ignored by the majority of the pessimists*, who don't follow ashpolt's post above.

That may not actually happen, but thats the feeling you get from the loud, rude minority.

* I don't like the connotations that word has on this board but I can't think of a better one ^^;

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 03:54
I know the feeling. Sometimes I can't help but think, I have these positive things I'd like to say, but I know that I'll most likely be shouted down/scoffed at/dismissed/ignored by the majority of the pessimists*, who don't follow ashpolt's post above.

Hey, at least you'd have to make your points before getting shouted down. We "pessimists" get threads telling us to shut up (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=117176) out of nowhere! :rasp:

Gaunt88
24th Mar 2011, 03:57
Yeah... the Loud & Rude Brigade has representatives from all walks of life and stances of opinion .

They're an equal-opportunity outfit -_-;

Shralla
24th Mar 2011, 04:07
This news is so volatile, not even I want to talk about it.

Fluffis
24th Mar 2011, 04:22
Crap...

This was not the news that I was hoping for when I came back here.

I mean, what the ****, EM? :(

Edit: why did I just get a vision of a (not insignificant) number of PC pre-orders being cancelled?

TheAllusiveMan
24th Mar 2011, 04:37
Pretty discouraging news if taken out of context. My question is: doesn't the leaked Eyefinity footage speak to their attention to PC development? I think this is Jeffacho speaking quite directly to a version of DX:HR running on a PC in Nov. 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnxpYjQWqVk

I also recall Jonatchoo mentioning in January that he was playing a build of DX:HR on his PC at home (via Twitter).

For me, as someone only really interested in DX:HR on PC, I'm concerned but this latest 'news' doesn't really register on my list of reservations...(I mean, just look at that Eyefinity footage and tell me they aren't concerned with PC development?)

wowlace
24th Mar 2011, 04:44
Wow, so this game might actually turn out to be worse than Invisible War.

Consoles, the bane to the gaming industry.

Consoles are fine for gaming. The problem with the gaming industry is it became an industry.

TrickyVein
24th Mar 2011, 04:44
I like to think that if you don't hold on to any expectations, then you're never dissapointed and you can only ever be pleasantly surprised.

There comes a point though, and it's getting pretty darn near that point, when whatever expectations you may have are so low that you lose interest. It's been years waiting for this title.

I am not throwing my hands up in the air and lamenting "oh woe me" without some clarification on this one. I want this game to be good. Can't say if it is until I sit down with it - that much is guaranteed.

Yeah, at least for now.

IOS
24th Mar 2011, 04:45
Pretty discouraging news if taken out of context. My question is: doesn't the leaked Eyefinity footage speak to their attention to PC development? I think this is Jeffacho speaking quite directly to a version of DX:HR running on a PC in Nov. 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnxpYjQWqVk

I also recall Jonatchoo mentioning in January that he was playing a build of DX:HR on his PC at home (via Twitter).

For me, as someone only really interested in DX:HR on PC, I'm concerned but this latest 'news' doesn't really register on my list of reservations...(I mean, just look at that Eyefinity footage and tell me they aren't concerned with PC development?)

Its the mob mentality.

It just takes one person to take news completely out of context for the entire board to start whining. I don't think anybody even read the interview.

Just look at the completely different responses on this forum (for the most part):

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=425214

No mob mentality= No ignorant posts like in this topic.

Fluffis
24th Mar 2011, 04:48
Pretty discouraging news if taken out of context. My question is: doesn't the leaked Eyefinity footage speak to their attention to PC development? I think this is Jeffacho speaking quite directly to a version of DX:HR running on a PC in Nov. 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnxpYjQWqVk

I also recall Jonatchoo mentioning in January that he was playing a build of DX:HR on his PC at home (via Twitter).

For me, as someone only really interested in DX:HR on PC, I'm concerned but this latest 'news' doesn't really register on my list of reservations...(I mean, just look at that Eyefinity footage and tell me they aren't concerned with PC development?)

I'm sure they're concerned with it. But there's a difference between being "concerned with" and going from "PC exclusive" via "Simultaneous development" to "Other company developing".

Not to mention the fact that the company they chose doesn't exactly have a perfect track record...

TheAllusiveMan
24th Mar 2011, 04:57
I'm sure they're concerned with it. But there's a difference between being "concerned with" and going from "PC exclusive" via "Simultaneous development" to "Other company developing".

Not to mention the fact that the company they chose doesn't exactly have a perfect track record...

Fair enough. I suppose at this point it's a choice. You can choose to hit the panic button as some have or you can choose to survey the wider array of evidence available and draw a more rational conclusion.

(For me, a developer doesn't demo their game on near cutting-edge consumer PC GFX technology and then 5 months after the fact claim it's 'just a port' of the console version. There are--and evidently always have been--very specific technical design decisions made about the PC version that preclude this from being a console-to-PC affair. Now, whether the gameplay has been steamlined for consoles is a completely different matter and not fit for this thread or the arguments being made here)

cartridge
24th Mar 2011, 05:21
This is why they never show us PC gameplay. My advise to employees with any shred of integrity and that value their career, start looking for new work now. Making consoles the lead platform for a PC game was your first mistake, handing PC development off to another studio was the second. Screw you EM for selling out like every other studio. I look forward to buying your game... from the clearance bin at Wal-Mart, a year after it releases. Best of luck to you all.

wheresmyskulgun
24th Mar 2011, 05:55
This is why they never show us PC gameplay. My advise to employees with any shred of integrity and that value their career, start looking for new work now. Making consoles the lead platform for a PC game was your first mistake, handing PC development off to another studio was the second. Screw you EM for selling out like every other studio. I look forward to buying your game... from the clearance bin at Wal-Mart, a year after it releases. Best of luck to you all.

It's amazing how despite my general agreement with your larger sentiment, this post makes me want to join the ShadowXOR brigade.

Rational: I'm concerned that this could be a significantly console-focused game, and as a consequence the PC version will suffer.

Irrational: YOU MOTHER****ERS AT EM SOLD US THE **** OUT, I HOPE YOU GET FIRED AND LOSE YOUR HOUSE AND ARE HOMELESS AND THEN YOUR ******* BABIES GET EATEN BY WILD GREASELS AND GET **** OUT AND THEN SET ON FIRE WHILE YOU'RE FORCED TO WATCH WHILE BEING LOWERED INCH BY INCH INTO A CAULDRON OF LAVA BY NAKED OLD PEOPLE.

Which is pretty much where some of you guys seem to be going.

Tverdyj
24th Mar 2011, 06:05
feed 'em to the karkians....

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 06:17
Fair enough. I suppose at this point it's a choice. You can choose to hit the panic button as some have or you can choose to survey the wider array of evidence available and draw a more rational conclusion.

Talking of surveying the wider array of evidence, how about the fact that every single bit of footage and every scrrenshot officially released by EM has been console footage, despite repeated (read: near constant) requests from the community for PC footage? 5 months from release and we've officially seen nothing of the PC version. We only got the Eyefinity footage because someone shakycam recorded it: EM didn't want people seeing that footage.

I appreciate your overall point, but you can't call yourself rational (and hence imply that people with the opposing view are irrational) when you're ignoring a fairly large piece of the evidence pie yourself.

Deus_Ex_Machina
24th Mar 2011, 06:17
feed 'em to the karkians....

Yes. And what the Karkians can't eat, the Greasels will. And what the Greasels can't eat, the Electronic Old Men will.

BigBoss
24th Mar 2011, 06:26
I appreciate your overall point, but you can't call yourself rational (and hence imply that people with the opposing view are irrational) when you're ignoring a fairly large piece of the evidence pie yourself.

But by calling HIM irrational because of the way he brought up his point(and hence imply that people with the opposing view are irrational) make you equally rational or irrational? :scratch::D

Tverdyj
24th Mar 2011, 06:34
Yes. And what the Karkians can't eat, the Greasels will. And what the Greasels can't eat, the Electronic Old Men will.

And in the end, my wolf wins and takes over the country

IH-Denton
24th Mar 2011, 07:01
Dugas told Shack: "No. Well, it was done in-house, but with a partnership."

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5593/dugaslaugh.gif

K^2
24th Mar 2011, 07:25
But by calling HIM irrational because of the way he brought up his point(and hence imply that people with the opposing view are irrational) make you equally rational or irrational? :scratch::D
You ever try reading your posts back to yourself?

biofuel
24th Mar 2011, 09:01
And, to think I almost went out and bought a brand new PC a few months ago just for the new Deus Ex.. haha.

SageSavage
24th Mar 2011, 09:04
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/03/23/deus-ex-3-pc-being-co-developed-by-nixxes/
http://www.shacknews.com/article/67899/nixxes-partnering-with-eidos-montreal

finc.Loki
24th Mar 2011, 09:07
I posted this in another thread but it fits better here in this thread.


I'd imagine it will be the same game and it might actually be a blessing in disguise:

Example:
Bioshock 1, was a great game and pretty damn good on PC.
That was a console game and the PC version (mainly the User interface) was made by a third-party developer, just like Nixxus.
That game didn't really feel like a console port, at least to me and I know I'm not alone in thinking so. I credit that to them actually letting a third-party focus 100% of the PC UI..

This could be a good thing, we know most games today are just console ports, but this way we could get a proper PC user interface and inventory etc etc. Especially since the norm today is to slap on a PC UI at the very last month before going gold, leaving it a lot to be desired. This way it might actually get more attention paid to it compared to if it was done "in-house" by clearly console focused development.
The game should still be the same code and same game regards to everything else, I doubt it will be a "different" game with different levels and game play, it should all be the same except PC features made by Nixxus.

So being optimistic I hope that this is just similar as to how it was with Bioshock 1, it felt like a PC game and played really well.

It could even be that we get less "highlighting" and things like that, since they focus on PC version they will do everything from that point of view, DX11 features etc who knows?

I don't really know how it works in game development, but I would imagine that Nixxus simply sit there and implement PC features, IE graphic tweaks and UI?
It's not like they are the primary developers, in regards to the actual game play and story and layout of the levels etc. Even if they code EVERYTHING, it is still approved and decided upon back at the main developers.

Em can't be that stupid that they let the PC game be a "different" game in regards to story/gamplay/levels etc, then again that crap happened with a Splinter cell game I recall *shudder to think that would happen*.

Just look at Crysis 2, no DX11 and no graphical options in menu at all, cause they didn't "have time or care", the console development impacted the PC version (their own words at Crytek).

So here's looking at the glass half-full instead...

K^2
24th Mar 2011, 09:08
On the plus side, Volition's rep just went up in my books. I'm now looking forward to Saints Row III a lot more.


In an upcoming interview with Shacknews, Deus Ex: Human Revolution game director Jean-François Dugas clarified that the PC version of the upcoming game is not being solely developed by the team at Eidos Montreal.
I see Shcknews got themselves one of these clairvoyant reporters.

VectorM
24th Mar 2011, 10:03
On the plus side, Volition's rep just went up in my books. I'm now looking forward to Saints Row III a lot more.


It's very easy to say you don't give a damn about piracy, when the console version is obviously the lead platform and the PC version is the stereotypical, cheap afterthought. The PC version for Saints Row 2 was garbage.

TheUnbeholden
24th Mar 2011, 10:06
Oh for God's sake.

Eidos Montreal, how can you possibly claim that the PC version is not a port when you're developing the console versions yourselves and outsourcing the PC version?

This is, without hyperbole, the worst news I've heard regarding this game, and shows the repeated assurances that the PC version wouldn't be a port for the out-and-out lies that they are. I'm not going to sugarcoat it: Eidos Montreal have actively lied to us about this. As far as I'm concerned, any measure of goodwill they've built up is now gone for me, and they'll have to perform a frakking miracle to get my money now.


read carefully...

WAS done in-house... meaning they didn't lie when they said that the game was originally designed for PC, it is... its just for some reason somewhere down the line they sent the PC version over to Nixxes...

quote "All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to [Nixxes]," he told Shacknews. "We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

To be honest the very fact that its been 'put together' somewhere else then Eidos Montreal makes me very on the fence as to whether thats a good or bad thing :D


I don't see why it's a terrible studio. As far as I can tell, they are engine-tweakers, not UI-porters. The only game on the list that I've played was TRU. The only PC-specific problem I've seen was controls. Best I can tell, these guys weren't responsible for controls. They were responsible for getting engine running on PC without crying like a little girl. They seem to have accomplished that. It doesn't run worse than on consoles on similar-range hardware, at least.

Exactly, EM are still in charge of designing the PC version. Nixxes only handles the engine.


I believe it's something everybody knew or had likely guessed for themselves some time ago, but the sticking point for me is how it runs contrary to so many of EM's past assurances. When you say lead development of your game is on the PC or that all versions will be equal, it seems pretty shifty when it turns out you're farming it out to another studio. You can brush it off as a technicality, but EM isn't stupid. They know full well the ideas people are going to get when they make such statements and it's clear by this point that most of their attempt's at placating their PC audience were just damage control with little substance. I won't charge them with lying, but... misleading? It's deliberately obfuscating the real nature of development, for sure.

I think that's the my biggest gripe with EM. The sacrifices made for the game are one thing, but I'm none too keen on giving my money when so many of their assuaging claims eventually melt away into bull****.




Well I do find it strange they didn't mention this until now... wait that's not strange at all. UH OHHHH :eek:


Or, alternatively, you didn't get my point.

The problem - aside from this "sister studio" not exactly having a stellar history, as you said

They actually have a good history in regards to ports... eventhough the games weren't that great, Nixxes didn't make the games they merely port it. And their ports have been solid as far as that goes.



The problem is that EM have decided that the "important" platforms, the ones worth their focus, are the consoles. The PC version is an afterthought that someone else can handle. And if you think that attitude won't carry over into decisions about the game itself, then prepare for a surprise come launch day.


Hmmm yes your right... it seems pessimism rules once again. :( damittttt

AeonHUN
24th Mar 2011, 10:12
all hope is gone...

ZakKa89
24th Mar 2011, 10:24
all hope is gone...

Lol no. I'll just quote myself here from another thread


After some thinking, still buying.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/24/eidos-montreal-outsources-deus-ex/

They do have a point. Nixxes atleast has some experience and the pc versions they've worked on were all good apperently. Nothing has changed from before, just like Tecman said: We should still worry as much as before, but no real need to worry more. Tecman tested almost every game Nixxes worked upon and they are all good. I can personaly testify the pc version of lara croft and the guardian of light is GREAT. A lot of graphical options including AA, fully customizable controls (ackowledges every button on my mouse) and it played like a charm. Looks really good as well and no locked FPS. Kane and Lynch 2 have enough options as well.

I've also read from some comment on RPS that the Legacy of Kain pc versions were acceptable.
After giving this some real thought, without assumptions, this really doesn't mean we need to worry more (or less). Nothing changed in that regard.

Don't blow things out of proportion :nut:

Lady_Of_The_Vine
24th Mar 2011, 10:28
Don't blow things out of proportion :nut:

At times like this, all you can do is share the popcorn. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/Twizted_Viewz/emoticons/popcorn.gif

K^2
24th Mar 2011, 10:29
The PC version for Saints Row 2 was garbage.
And it was a 3rd party port. If Volition is going to develop for PC in-house, we might get something half-descent with SRIII.

By the way, despite all of the problems of the PC port, which are truly too numerous to list, it was the most enjoyable sandbox game I've played on PC since San Andreas.

If the only direction to go from there is up, I expect I'll enjoy SRIII. And no, I don't expect it to be something revolutionary or unique. I know not to expect these things from Saints Row series.

finc.Loki
24th Mar 2011, 10:34
I'm sure they're concerned with it. But there's a difference between being "concerned with" and going from "PC exclusive" via "Simultaneous development" to "Other company developing".

Not to mention the fact that the company they chose doesn't exactly have a perfect track record...

This isn't a "port" if it is simultaneously being worked on.
A port is basically a finished console game that has a PC UI slapped on and then released to PC.

They are clearly working on this since long time back, the whole creative process takes place in-house, story/gameplay etc etc.

The engine is being worked on with tessellation (at least the video demo said so) and other DX11 features by Nixxes and PC UI .

Also, think of it this way:

If they were to buy Nixxes and moved them all IN-HOUSE, then all of a sudden even if it is the SAME people working on it, it would then be "IN-HOUSE" development and also simultaneous work.

I dare to say that these Nixxes guys have more experience with the crystal dynamics engine than EM.

At least it gets the full focus of a proper PC game.

The only think Nixxes can do wrong is on the technical side, with bad controls or poor optimization since all the game play and story and level design is the same across the platforms ( would be weird otherwise) and that is EM work and decision.
Nixxes just work with what they are told to work on, just like if they would be sitting in EM's own in-house office.
This does not seem as a quick conversion to fit PC in a quick last few months type of deal. As long as the PC controls and "engine game play" is not riddled with bugs it will be fine.

In the end, if the game sucks it would not be because of a bad port but simply that the game it self is not fun or has a bad story and game play etc etc.

So it isn't a "PC lead" game, I can only think of ONE game that has been a PC lead when it comes to multi-platform games, and that game is not even out yet, IE BF3.

I can however say that a lot of the PC versions of multi-platform games have been a pure port and done as an after-thought, only a few have been great versions, Bioshock is one.
At least this one is worked on simultaneously.

I would really like to see some PC footage too, and see it run in some kind of DEMO game play.

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 11:02
This isn't a "port" if it is simultaneously being worked on.
A port is basically a finished console game that has a PC UI slapped on and then released to PC.

They are clearly working on this since long time back, the whole creative process takes place in-house, story/gameplay etc etc.

The engine is being worked on with tessellation (at least the video demo said so) and other DX11 features by Nixxes and PC UI .

The only think Nixxes can do wrong is on the technical side, with bad controls or poor optimization since all the game play and story and level design is the same across the platforms ( would be weird otherwise) and that is EM work and decision.
Nixxes just work with what they are told to work on, just like if they would be sitting in EM's own in-house office.
This does not seem as a quick conversion to fit PC in a quick last few months type of deal. As long as the PC controls and "engine game play" is not riddled with bugs it will be fine.

In the end, if the game sucks it would not be because of a bad port but simply that the game it self is not fun or has a bad story and game play etc etc.


Technically it still is port even if it is developed side by side. There is always one version they do first and then look if that works on other platforms and that is what is called porting.

As you said the only thing Nixxes can screw up is technical side and UI and control implementation but you forget that exactly controls and UI are one of the main factors that define if it is fun to play or not. I don 't want to screw around with camera placement in third person view or to try press some really difficult to reach key combos to do something and so on. I don 't want to see large text announcements and large UI on high resolutions because consoles need that. They have to address all those issues if they want not to screw up gameplay for pc gamers. Also i don 't want to see Press Start To Begin when i launch the game. I don 't have Start on my keyboard :lol:

finc.Loki
24th Mar 2011, 11:39
Technically it still is port even if it is developed side by side. There is always one version they do first and then look if that works on other platforms and that is what is called porting.

As you said the only thing Nixxes can screw up is technical side and UI and control implementation but you forget that exactly controls and UI are one of the main factors that define if it is fun to play or not. I don 't want to screw around with camera placement in third person view or to try press some really difficult to reach key combos to do something and so on. I don 't want to see large text announcements and large UI on high resolutions because consoles need that. They have to address all those issues if they want not to screw up gameplay for pc gamers. Also i don 't want to see Press Start To Begin when i launch the game. I don 't have Start on my keyboard :lol:

You're correct!

But there is levels of how "much" of a port a game is.
Some is done exclusively on/for consoles and then ported at the last moment kinda deal or just six months etc.
This one is at least worked on for a long time and basically side by side.

I agree about the UI, but that is the thing I can't imagine Nixxes would screw that up badly, they have all this time to make proper PC ui and not "hit square" crap, which happens in quick sloppy ports. Also, EM themselves might have "demands" on how the UI should look like and if they want it very similar to the console well that would be THEIR fault and not Nixxes, they are just hired hand.

There has been a tessellation demo and Eyefinity etc, that at least would suggest that some level of PC thought.
Look at Crysis 2 it doesn't even come with DX10 or 11 and you can't change GFX options etc.

I have a feeling the game will turn out fine on PC, the only aspect to worry about would be deeper bugs cause of engine and such.
Then again it shouldn't be completely new to Nixxes since they have worked on other games using the same basic engine, yes this one is upgraded but the core is the same I'd imagine.

I think there is a little too much "cry-wolf" and the world is ending talk, we simply don't know yet.

Tecman
24th Mar 2011, 12:12
Also i don 't want to see Press Start To Begin when i launch the game. I don 't have Start on my keyboard :lol:

As far as I'm concerned, they can put "Press Start" next to an image of the XBox360 and a text blurb saying "How it's meant to be played", just as long as they do the important things right on the PC version: tech stability, solid framerate, plenty of critical settings and options, not mess up the mouse (or at least let us turn the annoyances off), make sure the interface feels at home and controlls perfectly with M&K.

Seriously, of all the things that actually matter in the end, "Press Start" is a non-issue.

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 12:32
As far as I'm concerned, they can put "Press Start" next to an image of the XBox360 and a text blurb saying "How it's meant to be played", just as long as they do the important things right on the PC version: tech stability, solid framerate, plenty of critical settings and options, not mess up the mouse (or at least let us turn the annoyances off), make sure the interface feels at home and controlls perfectly with M&K.

Seriously, of all the things that actually matter in the end, "Press Start" is a non-issue.

Yes, it's not an issue but it's the indicator that they have overlooked some things and we can expect to find some other console nonsense in the game. When i see Press Start to Begin i already know that it won 't be the last thing that will be left from console's version. I really hope Nixxes make every UI, Menu, Control thing from the scratch in mind of the PC gaming and not just doing some simple control remapping to keyboard keys.

biofuel
24th Mar 2011, 12:33
all hope is gone...

lol

Kvltism
24th Mar 2011, 12:37
I'd prefer to take the "wait and see" approach instead of getting pissed off. But this issue really doesn't look very good for EM, unless they quickly rebound with PC screens/footage.

Moeez
24th Mar 2011, 12:38
How is this news? Nixxes does great ports, and many skeptics are going to eat crow when the PC version comes out based on Nixxes' history.

Red
24th Mar 2011, 12:42
Talking of surveying the wider array of evidence, how about the fact that every single bit of footage and every scrrenshot officially released by EM has been console footage, despite repeated (read: near constant) requests from the community for PC footage? 5 months from release and we've officially seen nothing of the PC version. We only got the Eyefinity footage because someone shakycam recorded it: EM didn't want people seeing that footage.

I appreciate your overall point, but you can't call yourself rational (and hence imply that people with the opposing view are irrational) when you're ignoring a fairly large piece of the evidence pie yourself.

Fix'd.

You're not very good at highlighting, are you? :D

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 13:48
At times like this, all you can do is share the popcorn. http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j472/Twizted_Viewz/emoticons/popcorn.gif

Om nom nom nom...

Happy
24th Mar 2011, 14:01
Om nom nom nom...

Couldn't you at least post something calming? How about, "Relax guys and girls, we still have full creative controll and sign off on all aspects of the game. Think of our sister company as just the tech monkies that put it together while we supply the parts for them to do it with. We'll make sure that this game meets our own high expectations - after all, we're gamers too!" Coyotegrey


Feel free to copy and paste ;)

Irate_Iguana
24th Mar 2011, 14:04
Couldn't you at least post something calming?

Considering they didn't comment on the highlighting, let me pull out the old Magic 8-Ball;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WILsSKysMWg/TEPRSjo9cQI/AAAAAAAAAVs/omFS8N59030/s320/Magic+Eight+Ball.gif

Happy
24th Mar 2011, 14:06
^ lol

CoDEllite
24th Mar 2011, 14:20
Phew. Good news for console gamers at least. Now we know that xbox version has EMs full attention. Definetly Dont want something halfbaked like Alpha Protokol or New Vegas

Whompa
24th Mar 2011, 14:22
Considering they didn't comment on the highlighting, let me pull out the old Magic 8-Ball;

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_WILsSKysMWg/TEPRSjo9cQI/AAAAAAAAAVs/omFS8N59030/s320/Magic+Eight+Ball.gif

I guess you didnt read up. They did comment, saying its not as bright in person.

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 14:47
Couldn't you at least post something calming? How about, "Relax guys and girls, we still have full creative controll and sign off on all aspects of the game. Think of our sister company as just the tech monkies that put it together while we supply the parts for them to do it with. We'll make sure that this game meets our own high expectations - after all, we're gamers too!" Coyotegrey


Feel free to copy and paste ;)

The facts are out there, and have been reiterated dozens of times on many forums and news posts. But sometimes doom and gloom occupy people's minds, kicking all reasoning out the door.

We stand by what JF said:

"All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to them. We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

As many people have said, Nixxes is very good at what they do. How good? Well...

I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

MattAndersn
24th Mar 2011, 14:54
Will the PC version have different graphics settings or will it be like Mass Effect 2 where you can only change the resolution?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
24th Mar 2011, 14:54
We stand by what JF said:...
Updated first post/first page with this information, so that everybody gets to see it. :thumb:

[FGS]Shadowrunner
24th Mar 2011, 14:58
I hope fans do listen to this stuff, otherwise EM might just take COD's advice and close their ears, we need to be rationale and balanced, otherwise the more important issues won't get seriously considered. It doesn't bother me who makes the PC version, as long as there is one... and I have options to explore for myself rather than Mr Orange do it for me.

TrickyVein
24th Mar 2011, 15:22
The facts are out there, and have been reiterated dozens of times on many forums and news posts. But sometimes doom and gloom occupy people's minds, kicking all reasoning out the door.

We stand by what JF said:

"All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to them. We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

As many people have said, Nixxes is very good at what they do. How good? Well...

I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

Thanks, bunches of thanks. Good to have that clarified.

Irate_Iguana
24th Mar 2011, 15:37
I guess you didnt read up. They did comment, saying its not as bright in person.

They comment a little while after the demo was released. After that a veritable torrent of comments on all manner of sites said that they didn't like the highlighting. This hasn't been commented on. That was also the most important part. It wasn't just the forum that they so easily write off. All manner of people on all manner of sites don't like it.



Shadowrunner;1587048']I hope fans do listen to this stuff, otherwise EM might just take COD's advice and close their ears, we need to be rationale and balanced, otherwise the more important issues won't get seriously considered.

Get with the times. They have had closed ears the entire time. They don't give two ****s about this forum. You've been defending them the entire time. And only now that it is something that actually hits close to home for you do you dare say anything about the state of communication?

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 15:45
Get with the times. They have had closed ears the entire time. They don't give two ****s about this forum. You've been defending them the entire time. And only now that it is something that actually hits close to home for you do you dare say anything about the state of communication?

Stop. I'm here. We care about the forum. End of story.

Irate_Iguana
24th Mar 2011, 15:48
Stop. I'm here. We care about the forum. End of story.

You care so much that a simple question whether or not that highlight is a toggle can't be answered. Ah, forget it. We've been over this more times than I care to remember and the end result is always the same.

TrickyVein
24th Mar 2011, 15:52
Rorschach said "Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon."

Dr. Manhattan blew him up.

Seems to me like there needs to be a give and take on both ends. Cannot possibly expect to demand everything and give nothing in return.

jaywalker2309
24th Mar 2011, 16:47
Stop. I'm here. We care about the forum. End of story.

and you aint the only one on here either :)

FuzzyPuffin
24th Mar 2011, 16:58
You care so much that a simple question whether or not that highlight is a toggle can't be answered. Ah, forget it. We've been over this more times than I care to remember and the end result is always the same.

It has been answered. The answer is no, it's "part of the experience."

Ulysses
24th Mar 2011, 17:07
I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.


Well all that and your forum rank, heh :)

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 17:19
I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

Well that doesn't change anything because people like different things and i don 't know what is your preferences in PC gaming . I don 't know you :D I still stand that I need to play pc demo before i will admit that Nixxes has done good job on porting game to PC and after that i will be ready to buy the game for PC.

puzl
24th Mar 2011, 17:25
You care so much that a simple question whether or not that highlight is a toggle can't be answered. Ah, forget it. We've been over this more times than I care to remember and the end result is always the same.

It did get answered by two devs on twitter didn't it? They said that highlighting isn't optional.

Trainwreck
24th Mar 2011, 17:30
No offense, devs - but if you're concerned about what anyone here thinks, and the PC version is indeed awesome, why not just post a few screenshots of the UI so far? I understand maybe the menu and video options aren't fully implemented yet, so that's cool. But surely, the main game's interface is 99% complete, if you're able to actually prefer the PC version over its console counterparts. Just show us!

Red
24th Mar 2011, 17:41
I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

Yeah, we totally love all the awesome the best of the best PC screenshots and videos of the super awesome PC version you guys posted here. They're our favorite too!

Trainwreck was faster, but I like the way I formed the post.

Happy
24th Mar 2011, 17:42
The facts are out there, and have been reiterated dozens of times on many forums and news posts. But sometimes doom and gloom occupy people's minds, kicking all reasoning out the door.

We stand by what JF said:

"All the design and changes to the design has been done in Montreal and sent to them. We review the builds. We review and then give comments about what works and what doesn't. It's the same process. It's the exact same process, except that the programmers aren't in the same office. It's the same game and the same creative team taking care of it."

As many people have said, Nixxes is very good at what they do. How good? Well...

I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it. As a self-described hardcore PC gamer who built his PC, overclocks it, and has a Steam account filled with hundreds of titles, I hope what I say carries weight when I admit that the PC version is definitely my favorite of the three.

Now that's what I call community management! Thanks for the response!

Not that you need my permission, but you may now return to eating popcorn :)

Fluffis
24th Mar 2011, 17:43
No offense, devs - but if you're concerned about what anyone here thinks, and the PC version is indeed awesome, why not just post a few screenshots of the UI so far? I understand maybe the menu and video options aren't fully implemented yet, so that's cool. But surely, the main game's interface is 99% complete, if you're able to actually prefer the PC version over its console counterparts. Just show us!

This.

If you would just show us something from the PC version. Anything.

puzl
24th Mar 2011, 17:46
Also, let me just say that the PC port of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light was perfect. Really. Great mouse control, fully customisable options and full bells+whistles visual control from the menu. Seriously, if it's anything like that, then there is no need to worry at all.

Mass Effect 1 got a different team to work on the PC version and they did a great job of it. This is common industry practice and usually results in better PC versions, imo.

andysk8
24th Mar 2011, 18:20
Continuing...

@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): @actionhp Did we say it was just a port?
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): Internet is an awesome medium for those who like to invent stories - we should hire them!
@Xav (shacknews): My assumption is that you mean the commenters and not the reporters...
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): It's a valid assumption ;)
@Xav (shacknews): It's so knee-jerk reactionary. I think your points on logistics were valid and Nixxes has a strong history.
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): Bah, we need to adapt, it's the 21st century after all!
@Xav (shacknews): Can you guys work on an augmentation to subside Internet hostility/stupidity? Ask JJB to draw something in black and gold...
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): LOL!!

http://twitter.com/#!/Jeffachoo

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 18:56
No offense, devs - but if you're concerned about what anyone here thinks, and the PC version is indeed awesome, why not just post a few screenshots of the UI so far? I understand maybe the menu and video options aren't fully implemented yet, so that's cool. But surely, the main game's interface is 99% complete, if you're able to actually prefer the PC version over its console counterparts. Just show us!


Yeah, we totally love all the awesome the best of the best PC screenshots and videos of the super awesome PC version you guys posted here. They're our favorite too!

Trainwreck was faster, but I like the way I formed the post.


This.

If you would just show us something from the PC version. Anything.

Fourth'd. But, of course, they can't show us anything now - it's not part of The Marketing Plan. We'll see some PC footage Soon.


Also, let me just say that the PC port of Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light was perfect. Really. Great mouse control,

Really? I played Guardian of Light on the PC too, and had to plug in a 360 controller for it to be decently playable. I thought the M&K controls were terrible.

JCpies
24th Mar 2011, 19:00
First I was like.... http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/j/c/jcseesplz.gif?1 Then I was like....http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/i/m/iminfinityseriousplz.png?1 And now I'm like... http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/i/m/imseriousplz.png

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 19:03
Really? I played Guardian of Light on the PC too, and had to plug in a 360 controller for it to be decently playable. I thought the M&K controls were terrible.

Same here. I read here people say that controls was great and so on but i didn 't find them to be so great. I actually pluged in my x360 controller and only then i started to enjoy the game.

pha
24th Mar 2011, 19:06
I've said before that many of us have played the PC version, and we loved it.

Surely there must be something to show us if it's playable and lovable?

AlexOfSpades
24th Mar 2011, 19:08
JCPie, your post is 33% made of win, 33% of lol and 33% of epic.

And 1% of zyme

motsm
24th Mar 2011, 19:09
Surely there must be something to show us if it's playable and lovable?Of course not. That makes far too much sense.

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 19:14
Surely there must be something to show us if it's playable and lovable?

Let's not get into this discussion again, please.

Showing PC footage is planned, and the timing is locked. Complaining about not having anything in this regard right now, so many months before release, will benefit no one, and will actually make my job more difficult. :( Think of the community manager!

pha
24th Mar 2011, 19:22
Showing PC footage is planned, and the timing is locked.

But why? If it's ready (and before anyone takes it out of context, obviously I don't mean ready to be published tomorrow ready) why is EM so defiant about releasing PC footage? I don't see you or anyone saying "so many months before release" about the console versions.


Complaining about not having anything in this regard right now, so many months before release, will benefit no one, and will actually make my job more difficult.

Any ETA when I can complain about it? Inb4 "soon".

subtlesnake
24th Mar 2011, 19:24
Fourth'd. But, of course, they can't show us anything now - it's not part of The Marketing Plan. We'll see some PC footage Soon.
There's always a semi-arbitrary marketing plan. Publishers mark off some time, and decide that that's when we'll see some aspect of the game, and not sooner. It's not 'time' to show off the various versions of the game, so we just get the standard 360 footage, or whatever.

To me, it doesn't necessarily say anything about the game itself. With a different marketing plan we'd be seeing different stuff.

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 19:30
Let's not get into this discussion again, please.

Showing PC footage is planned, and the timing is locked. Complaining about not having anything in this regard right now, so many months before release, will benefit no one, and will actually make my job more difficult. :( Think of the community manager!

No offence but i will ask you some harder questions about your job. How does it make your job difficult? You are a community manager, it's your work to discuss with us, to be a link between us and development team.
If the date is already locked for the first PC footage why just not to announce it so that we have something to look forward? Is it really so hard to boot up game and take one screenshot (let it be the first you see when you have control over Adam for example) and to upload it somewhere? You can do a lot to keep the community healthy just by giving a little bit info every week that we care to see but no, you just do whatever you think is right but somehow it doesn't give positive outcome here. I don't know who evaluates your job but after seeing how there is so many people unsatisfied here i must say it's not really job well done. Well if I worked with such results at my work most likely i would be unemployed now.

mahmoudd
24th Mar 2011, 19:42
No offence but i will ask you some harder questions about your job. How does it make your job difficult? You are a community manager, it's your work to discuss with us, to be a link between us and development team.
If the date is already locked for the first PC footage why just not to announce it so that we have something to look forward? Is it really so hard to boot up game and take one screenshot (let it be the first you see when you have control over Adam for example) and to upload it somewhere? You can do a lot to keep the community healthy just by giving a little bit info every week that we care to see but no, you just do whatever you think is right but somehow it doesn't give positive outcome here. I don't know who evaluates your job but after seeing how there is so many people unsatisfied here i must say it's not really job well done. Well if I worked with such results at my work most likely i would be unemployed now.

they dont want to seal their fate by pulling out a date and then they must report it for whatever reason

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 19:45
they dont want to seal their fate by pulling out a date and then they must report it for whatever reason

well there is always an option to announce a delay :D It's not that it is something rare in gaming industry :p

andysk8
24th Mar 2011, 19:45
Not trying to be a PC fanboy, but it's really hard to just wait for small details (or even one or two screenshots or videos) for the PC version of a game that we care so much about it, while we keep seeing things about the console version and some worrying thoughts on the PC version, since there's no "real" info for us, just vague interview comments. This hurts the game itself, and how it is viewed by that specific public.

This is even worse because we keep hearing this "we will eventually talk about the PC version", "Showing PC footage is planned, and the timing is locked" and other things without any light of what, or when, we can expect. There's so many examples of consolized games (i hate this term, but the example is applicable here) where the PC version was considered in the same way, wait until nearly the game's release to hear about it, and bam, the PC version was all dissapointment. This isn't a rule, but it's hard to have any optimism when a PC series is getting a new game and there's only mistery about the PC version, leaving us all in the dark until then.

bartgesang
24th Mar 2011, 19:57
Just a hint: Take a look how cd project keeps in touch with its customers regarding The witcher 2. Constant flow of information, footage all other the place, discussion with the devs on base oft this footage and so one. I mean - you are interested in us actually buying the game, aren´t you?

Brockxz
24th Mar 2011, 19:59
Just a hint: Take a look how cd project keeps in touch with its customers regarding The witcher 2. Constant flow of information, footage all other the place, discussion with the devs on base oft this footage and so one. I mean - you are interested in us actually buying the game, aren´t you?

yes, that's a great example of good community work.

Nephthys
24th Mar 2011, 20:12
Continuing...

@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): @actionhp Did we say it was just a port?
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): Internet is an awesome medium for those who like to invent stories - we should hire them!
@Xav (shacknews): My assumption is that you mean the commenters and not the reporters...
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): It's a valid assumption ;)
@Xav (shacknews): It's so knee-jerk reactionary. I think your points on logistics were valid and Nixxes has a strong history.
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): Bah, we need to adapt, it's the 21st century after all!
@Xav (shacknews): Can you guys work on an augmentation to subside Internet hostility/stupidity? Ask JJB to draw something in black and gold...
@Jeffachoo (Jean-François Dugas): LOL!!

http://twitter.com/#!/Jeffachoo

That almost sounds like when you're sitting at a lunch table and the people behind you are making jokes about you, but know you can hear them.

JCpies
24th Mar 2011, 20:15
:( Think of the community manager!


http://a.deviantart.net/avatars/i/m/imseriouscombinedplz.gif?1

Fox89
24th Mar 2011, 20:19
I think what people need to take away from this is the creative team is still EM. The sister studio are essentially just the coders. As said in the OP, Eidos Montreal reviews everything that comes out of there. So if they get a build where the controls are rubbish, EM say "The controls are rubbish, change them to do this and this".

This is exactly the same process that would happen in-house. The coders give the designers a build, the designers tell them what they did right and what they did wrong, they go back and change it.

Where's the problem here? Outsourcing happens in the games industry all the time! Even completely in-house stuff is shared between different teams in different studios run by the same company. This really isn't anything to be worried about.

Knoted
24th Mar 2011, 20:20
Really? I played Guardian of Light on the PC too, and had to plug in a 360 controller for it to be decently playable. I thought the M&K controls were terrible.

Tomb Raider has always been a 3rd person game with a strong emphasis on console version, thus analogue thumbstick controls deserve most attention anyway.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to play any 3rd person game with WASD.

Nephthys
24th Mar 2011, 20:28
Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to play any 3rd person game with WASD.

If I have complete control over my camera, then I don't mind third person. If not, then I have a really hard time finishing the game. Still not a fan of the cover system that I've seen in the videos for DX, but at least there aren't forced camera views, you still appear to have a lot of flexibility with the camera.

foxh0und
24th Mar 2011, 20:28
First off all they claim to develop all 3 platforms simultaneously so if we had x360 footage and screens whats the reason for not releasing pc's footage of same levels and gameplay? (except "marketing plan") :rasp:

Second Development of DX3 started in late 2007 or so its roughly 4 years and you don't have anything decent to show from pc version

Third Its about 5 months till release scratch last month you have to stamp dvds print covers manuals pack everything ship to retailers etc. so we have 4 months Its not much time its good for final polishing gameplay tweak this and that so they should have something to show by this time.

Two conclusions come to my mind either the PC version i far better then console one so they don't want to affect sales of it or PC version is crappy port and now they try to fix and put it together.

Prove mi wrong EM and release decent gameplay from pc version.

nordoM
24th Mar 2011, 20:29
That almost sounds like when you're sitting at a lunch table and the people behind you are making jokes about you, but know you can hear them.

Oh wow, how did I miss the entire last page?

So do I get this correct? Making some biting remarks about the community to some guy from shacknews and dismissing everything said as kneejerk, easily done. But making a twitter or giving our community manager some official answers to stop the speculations and hyperbole, no time/don't care?

bartgesang
24th Mar 2011, 20:30
Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to play any 3rd person game with WASD.

Personally speaking, it worked absolutely fine for me in Max Payne 1 and 2.

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 20:31
There's always a semi-arbitrary marketing plan. Publishers mark off some time, and decide that that's when we'll see some aspect of the game, and not sooner. It's not 'time' to show off the various versions of the game, so we just get the standard 360 footage, or whatever.

To me, it doesn't necessarily say anything about the game itself. With a different marketing plan we'd be seeing different stuff.

The thing is though, marketing plans have to be fluid. Marketing as a field has to be reactionary to some degree - in the gaming world, that means reacting to public perception of your product. A fixed marketing plan with absolutely no room for deviation is a bad marketing plan. EM's marketing plan has been terrible from the start: while they may have won over the new market, they've actively turned their noses up at the existing, core market time and time and time again - and the thing is, winning over the two markets isn't mutually exclusive. Some PC footage here (or, rather, 6 months ago) wouldn't suddenly turn off the new market, but it would please the core. Either the PC version is currently a complete shambles and unshowable - which contradicts what EM are telling us, but what's new there? - or EM are just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. A healthy marketing plan is adaptive, fluid - not set in stone and unchangeable.

Incidentally, in case it's bought up again: Yes, I am a professional marketer. It is what I do for a living.

---

On the topic of the news in this thread, and JFD's snide Twitter remarks about it: OK, I'm willing to admit that my initial reaction was a bit knee-jerk, however, it's not like it came out of nowhere. Over the past year and a half, EM have treated their PC fanbase with as third-rate citizens (and that's putting it nicely: I honestly feel it borders on contempt) and news like this is just one more thing to add to the list - it's just that this piece was unexpected (to me at least - K^2 seemed to see it coming) and so came with the element of shock as well as the usual disappointment. If reactions are so poor, it's their own fault for the way they've handled this all along. Let's consider two separate scenarios:

Scenario #1: What has happened:
-No footage at all for 3 years after announcement
-First trailers are CG only, nothing of the game itself
-First gameplay screenshots come out: all console footage
-First gameplay trailer comes out: console footage
-Fans ask for PC footage: "it's coming soon"
-All further gameplay trailers and screenshots are from console versions
-All press demos are console versions, even when demoing to PC press
-News comes out that PC version is being outsourced
-Really, how did they expect anyone to react? Seriously?

Scenario #2: What could have happened with a better, more flexible marketing plan:

And you know what? I'll even say things could've been the same up to about 6 months ago. They could've turned this around, even despite the terrible, terrible communication for 3 years after the announcement. So here we go:

-No footage at all for 3 years after announcement
-First trailers are CG only, nothing of the game itself
-First gameplay screenshots come out: all console footage
-First gameplay trailer comes out: console footage
-Fans ask for PC footage: "it's coming soon"
<<Break point from scenario #1>>
-PC footage actually gets released - and let's assume here that EM are telling the truth when they say that it's great, has a custom UI, etc
-PC fans get to see for themselves that the PC version is being given adequate care, attention and respect, rather than having to trust in the vague, ill-defined promises of the very people who are trying to sell them the game
-News comes out that the PC version is being outsourced

In this scenario, the reaction would've been far, far less severe. It still wouldn't have been good news because however you play it it shows that the PC version isn't your focus or priority, but if we'd got to see beforehand that the PC version was looking good, I guarantee that people wouldn't have had such a problem with the outsourcing. It's very hard to be annoyed at something like this if you've seen the results of it first hand, and the results are good. Heck, you could have even spun it as "....and these guys are the reason the PC version looks so good, we knew they'd do a great job and they have, as you have already seen!"

Knoted
24th Mar 2011, 20:40
Personally speaking, it worked absolutely fine for me in Max Payne 1 and 2.

Well, I haven't played either.... but if I'm not mistaken...the main gameplay of Max Payne consists of shooting, right ? In contrast to Tomb Raider, which is mostly about acrobatic/precise character movement.

Different nature of games, different emphasis of controls.

motsm
24th Mar 2011, 20:41
Scenario #1: What has happened:
-No footage at all for 3 years after announcement
-First trailers are CG only, nothing of the game itself
-First gameplay screenshots come out: all console footage
-First gameplay trailer comes out: console footage
-Fans ask for PC footage: "it's coming soon"
-All further gameplay trailers and screenshots are from console versions
-All press demos are console versions, even when demoing to PC press
-News comes out that PC version is being outsourced
-Really, how did they expect anyone to react? Seriously?That is the answer right there folks. With circumstances like that, you can't blame anyone on these boards or elsewhere for making negative accusations about the game being a port. Even if there's absolutely no truth to it at all, they brought it on themselves, so they should be the only ones defending their position.

68_pie
24th Mar 2011, 20:42
First off all they claim to develop all 3 platforms simultaneously

Actually, to begin with they only announced the PC version.

bartgesang
24th Mar 2011, 20:45
Well, I haven't played either.... but if I'm not mistaken...the main gameplay of Max Payne consists of shooting, right ? In contrast to Tomb Raider, which is mostly about acrobatic/precise character movement.

Different nature of games, different emphasis of controls.

Yes, thats true. But after all, I just wanted to show that its possible on PC. And as far as I´m concerned Deus Ex is a bit closer to the New York-detective than to the hot adventuress. I mean, gameplay and stuff.

And b.t.w.: Do yourself a favour and get Max Payne 1 and 2. Now.

pall
24th Mar 2011, 20:46
It's shame , small game developers like larian Studios have time to talk to their fans personally and give them regular updates and respect without any community managers, but big studios like EM want to keep silent or simply don't care because they can afford angry fans. EM could learn many good things about healthy fan-developer relationship from them.

foxh0und
24th Mar 2011, 20:48
Actually, to begin with they only announced the PC version.

Yes i know i didn't want to start form very beginning i was referring to time when they confirm console version, but that proves my point again they could show at least some pre alpha footage or similar early stage build.

Reven
24th Mar 2011, 21:08
Cd projekt made a name for themselves in the PC market by breaking their backs for their fans and going out of the way to fix problems with the witchers game engine and speak to the forums about problems with the inventory system. those guy earned alot of respect from this. its just a shame every other company is still in the dark ages waiting for the internet to be invented.

Fluffis
24th Mar 2011, 21:09
@ Kyle, mostly: Put yourself in our shoes (the PC crowd). We're in a really bizarre position here. Just months before release, the PC crowd still not only just have your word (not knocking you here, just so you know) that the PC version is good (even the best version) - we just have EM's word that there even is a PC version of the game we have been seeing console footage of over the course of the last months. And added to that, the news drops that EM aren't even the ones working on the PC version any more. Do you see how weird this situation is?

Now, I know that this is pushing it to very edge, as far as argumentation goes, but ironically it is, in essence, where we're at right now.

pha
24th Mar 2011, 21:10
its just a shame every other company is still in the dark ages waiting for the internet to be invented.

Word.

Tverdyj
24th Mar 2011, 21:24
Tomb Raider has always been a 3rd person game with a strong emphasis on console version, thus analogue thumbstick controls deserve most attention anyway.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't want to play any 3rd person game with WASD.

I have played both Soul Reavers, Blood Omen 2, and Defiance on PC. all 4 a purely 3rd person. Aside from some stupid camera twists here and there, they handle just fine with WASD+space+ctrl+alt as basic control scheme.

bartgesang
24th Mar 2011, 21:25
its just a shame every other company is still in the dark ages waiting for the internet to be invented.

Just to add another good excample for community-hugging:

http://www.frictionalgames.com/site/

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 21:25
@ Kyle, mostly: Put yourself in our shoes (the PC crowd). We're in a really bizarre position here. Just months before release, the PC crowd still not only just have your word (not knocking you here, just so you know) that the PC version is good (even the best version) - we just have EM's word that there even is a PC version of the game we have been seeing console footage of over the course of the last months. And added to that, the news drops that EM aren't even the ones working on the PC version any more. Do you see how weird this situation is?

Now, I know that this is pushing it to very edge, as far as argumentation goes, but ironically it is, in essence, where we're at right now.

Totally! I understand. :) Like I said, I'm a hardcore PC guy, I can sympathize. Unfortunately when and how PC footage is revealed isn't up to me! It's absolutely out of my hands! But it IS coming, and it is sexy time.

And yeah, I'm COMPLETELY aware of good community practices in the industry. I'm an information nut. But remember that sometimes the practices of smaller independent companies can't be identically replicated to a bigger one. That said, I'm always looking at ways of growing this community, and am busting my buns every day to deliver!

andysk8
24th Mar 2011, 21:30
Totally! I understand. :) Like I said, I'm a hardcore PC guy, I can sympathize. Unfortunately when and how PC footage is revealed isn't up to me! It's absolutely out of my hands! But it IS coming, and it is sexy time.
Could you just give an "yes or no" to this: Can we expect an real turnaround from our current impression when that happens?

Coyotegrey
24th Mar 2011, 21:31
Could you just give an "yes or no" to this: Can we expect an real turnaround from our current impression when that happens?

What do you mean?

ZakKa89
24th Mar 2011, 21:34
Well how do you know. Kyle just said pc footage is planned! Good to hear, good to hear.

andysk8
24th Mar 2011, 21:34
What do you mean?
If we can trust that, when that happens, we will really change our negative impression from the things we know right now (or from the lack of info we still have). If that will truly change our current impression.

nordoM
24th Mar 2011, 21:36
Could you just give an "yes or no" to this: Can we expect an real turnaround from our current impression when that happens?

I'd have prefered the question: Is there a chance that EM will extend a hand towards the "hardcore" PC gamer crowd and might consider some sort of change to the highlighting.

Fluffis
24th Mar 2011, 21:38
Totally! I understand. :) Like I said, I'm a hardcore PC guy, I can sympathize. Unfortunately when and how PC footage is revealed isn't up to me!

... which begs the follow-up question: Do The Powers That Be see how weird the situation is? (Especially if you add in the fact that the PC version was the first one that was announced.)

It's weird, but I find myself chuckling a bit when I think about it all. The whole situation is really quite absurd.

It's kind of like how people claim they've seen the Loch Ness Monster... only, there's more footage of that. :nut: :D

ArcR
24th Mar 2011, 21:45
Totally! I understand. :) Like I said, I'm a hardcore PC guy, I can sympathize. Unfortunately when and how PC footage is revealed isn't up to me! It's absolutely out of my hands! But it IS coming, and it is sexy time.

And yeah, I'm COMPLETELY aware of good community practices in the industry. I'm an information nut. But remember that sometimes the practices of smaller independent companies can't be identically replicated to a bigger one. That said, I'm always looking at ways of growing this community, and am busting my buns every day to deliver!

Makes sense. I blame the marketing department... namely the marketing goon in the last JJB video. :D

PC footage is cool. PC demo... you'd be a rockstar. I'll give you till August to pull that rabbit out of your hat :rasp:

Good Luck Sir.

Lucifer
24th Mar 2011, 21:51
Eidos answer about pc gameplay and footage => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

Ganjadk
24th Mar 2011, 21:54
http://images1.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/5976530/Cool-Story-Brah.jpg

IOS
24th Mar 2011, 21:55
That almost sounds like when you're sitting at a lunch table and the people behind you are making jokes about you, but know you can hear them.

This sums up pretty much everyone on this board when they were in high school.

sonicsidewinder
24th Mar 2011, 21:56
heh heh

Reven
24th Mar 2011, 21:57
I think what everyone is asking for is a gesture of goodwill on EM's part to the hardcore PC fanbase that make up a significant majority of the fanbase here and in the market in general who have been asked to show alot of faith to very little reward. faith like that deserves to be rewarded. and the price being asked for it not a unreasonable one.

Ashpolt
24th Mar 2011, 22:17
Totally! I understand. :) Like I said, I'm a hardcore PC guy, I can sympathize. Unfortunately when and how PC footage is revealed isn't up to me! It's absolutely out of my hands! But it IS coming, and it is sexy time.

And yeah, I'm COMPLETELY aware of good community practices in the industry. I'm an information nut. But remember that sometimes the practices of smaller independent companies can't be identically replicated to a bigger one. That said, I'm always looking at ways of growing this community, and am busting my buns every day to deliver!

As usual, Kyle, my comments aren't directed at you personally, but at EM's marketing effort as a whole. I know it's not you making these decisions, but it's someone, and that person needs to be slapped in the face. Preferably with a printed out wad of posts by irritated PC gamers. Mine alone could probably inflict some fairly serious tissue damage!

We know EM can't (actually, scrap that: won't) release PC footage now, but can you at least give us a reasonably precise idea of when to expect it? "Soon" (from JFD, at PAX) is too vague, especially as we've been told "soon" for quite some time now.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
24th Mar 2011, 22:23
Doesn't bother me at all that it's being farmed out, that we haven't seen it and totally doesn't bother me that I have to take their word for it. Similar responses to the first trailers led on to more complex and immersive trailers, which excited people more than the first ones.

We haven't played the game, so it's very hard to tell from trailers, if that is a shooter or an action RPG we are watching. The orange glow says "brainless shooter". The script and concepts say otherwise.

chip5541
24th Mar 2011, 22:26
My bet would be during E3. The thing with marketing is that it is just not the marketers here but the media outlets, fan sites, etc., that may have worked out some sort of exclusivity deal. I am positive that PC previews and trailers are on the way. I would suggest to please be patient.



BTW. House Rulz!