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Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 21:35
Just a suggestion for Eidos Montreal. Since a "Deus Ex" difficulty level is confirmed, which is presumably designed around more hardcore gamers, why not include more hardcore options like removal/scaling back of highlighting and removal of the objective marker, which a lot of us in the hardcore community don't like. These are not difficult changes to make, as all it involves is removing a post-processing pass with these features. Please, this is a serious request Eidos Montreal. I have included a poll for good measure. This is a serious request, which will not be difficult for you to do at all from a coding or QA perspective, and is fairly standard in the industry.

Thank you. It's not even just the DX hardcore community who would appreciate this, I have no doubt that the wider group of "hardcore" gamers would also thank you.

AlexOfSpades
19th Mar 2011, 21:47
There are three options:

Yes
No
Dont care..


I voted Yes because simply there's no reason why not to. If i like highlightning i wont play hardcore mode.

Its an option. We play it that way if we feel like.

So the "No" option doesnt even make sense. If its an option, why not? Really.

The "Dont care" option also doesnt make sense, because that's the kind of thing that will use only a couple of hours to program. Hardly they will be able to assure quality in the game in such a short time.

And if adding options isnt assuring quality then i dont know what it is.

So, voted Yes.

Cronstintein
19th Mar 2011, 21:59
Personally I don't think those options should be married to the Dx mode. It's really just HUD preference for the player, it should be in the options menu.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:00
Ah, but "Deus Ex" is supposed to be a hardcore mode. I think that, in view of this, it really shouldn't have cheating options like objective markers on it.

Consider Hitman: Blood Money's system for what I'm thinking about. That's a good way to do things.

NKD
19th Mar 2011, 22:04
Remove quicksaves from "Deus Ex" mode too. That follows along the Hitman system as well, where higher difficulties had more limited saves.

Ilves
19th Mar 2011, 22:10
I agree with Cronk on this: I'm grown up enough not to need the all the visual pampering :rolleyes: but not hardcore enough to necessarily crave a one hit kill damage model. No need to link the two up.

Detailed customization really is the biggest courtesy a game can offer, and would be greatly appreciated. :thumb:

Irate_Iguana
19th Mar 2011, 22:12
While I'm completely supportive of having the hardest mode do away with these elements, I'm not optimistic about the team actually giving in to this. They've touted the measures as part of the overall experience. It doesn't seem likely that they'll now listen to people asking them to remove the highlighting or any other features.

If, by some cosmic gathering of good spirits, they are willing to change some options for the mode they've touted as being for the hardcore fanbase, I'd like to make a few suggestions;

Highlighting
Get rid of it. You've got a little pop-up that tells you when something can be interacted with and the manner in which you can interact with it. That is more than enough. There is no need to point out the glaringly obvious. For the most part the people who will play the hardest mode won't mind that not all cardboard boxes in a level aren't highlighted. When they miss some ammo because they didn't look around the level hard enough they will accept that as their own fault and not because you failed to highlight it.

Radar
This will be a permanent addition to the HUD and it won't be removed or limited to an optional augmentation. I'd like EM to take a hint from Hitman and change the visual information on the Radar depending on the difficulty level. As it stands now, at the base level of augmentation, the friendly indicators are Green and the enemies are Yellow. Thanks to the triangular shape of the indicators we know exactly which way the enemies are facing. I'd like to see four different changes;
- Change the distance at which the radar picks up NPC's. The shorter the distance the less helpful it will be. It will give players of the highest level an incentive to upgrade and presents a challenge in stealth.
- Change the color of the indicator. Right now it is obvious who is an enemy and who isn't. Some ambiguity until you are in visual range, or until you have upgraded, would make for a more difficult experience for the player.
- Change the shape of the indicator. Having a triangle for an indicator makes it immediately obvious which way an enemy is looking. This makes planning an assault really easy and removes the need for the radar upgrade that shows field of vision.
- Remove the marker for the objective. Hardcore players are going to do things their way and a big sign that says "GO HERE, YOU ****" is not exactly compatible with that.

Objective marker
Please remove that little bouncing box that shows you the distance to the objective. Presumably the hardcore players are going to be scouring the maps anyway. They'll stumble across the objective eventually. There is no need to annoy them the entire time with a little box telling them how far they are from the next objective.


These are simple changes that are about the UI. They aren't about fundamentally changing any core gameplay issues. EM still has 5 months before the game ships. That should be plenty of time to make a few tweaks to the UI.

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 22:16
Deus Ex difficulty should be the Deus Ex experience. so i vote yes.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:18
Detailed customization really is the biggest courtesy a game can offer, and would be greatly appreciated. :thumb:

I can definitely agree with this. Even though I personally would probably just disable everything, more choice is better. :thumb:

pha
19th Mar 2011, 22:18
Remove quicksaves from "Deus Ex" mode too. That follows along the Hitman system as well, where higher difficulties had more limited saves.

You make it very hard to take you seriously.

EDIT: Ignore this.

Irate_Iguana
19th Mar 2011, 22:21
You make it very hard to take you seriously.

Well, I'd certainly not be against removal of quicksaves and a limit on the total number of saves per mission for a high difficulty level.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:21
You make it very hard to take you seriously.

Eh, sounded perfectly reasonable to me? That's an oft-used mechanic for making games more immersive and/or difficult.

puzl
19th Mar 2011, 22:21
It's not just the hardcore gamers who want the option to disable highlighting though.

I mean christ, until the last few years or so, highlighting didn't even exist. Does that make every person who played a game pre-2005 or so a hardcore gamer? ;)

Irate_Iguana
19th Mar 2011, 22:25
Does that make every person who played a game pre-2005 or so a hardcore gamer? ;)

Yes, it does. The definition changed a lot during the years.

Dead-Eye
19th Mar 2011, 22:27
I voted for don't care. But after reading through this thread, I realize that highlighting is for n00bs.

Still, they worked the HUD into the narrative so...

NKD
19th Mar 2011, 22:28
You make it very hard to take you seriously.

By making a serious suggestion with actual precedent? Not sure what you're getting at. I don't see where you've contributed anything to the thread.

Unlimited saving can basically trivialize any difficulty level by allowing fine-grained retry of every individual task in a mission.

Sure, you could say it's up to the user whether they use saves or not, but the whole point of a difficulty level is so that the game enforces rules in an attempt to set up a given challenge level. A hardcore mode isn't very hardcore if all it means is you have to save more often.

pha
19th Mar 2011, 22:29
My apologies to all three of you. English comprehension fail.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:30
It's not just the hardcore gamers who want the option to disable highlighting though.

I mean christ, until the last few years or so, highlighting didn't even exist. Does that make every person who played a game pre-2005 or so a hardcore gamer? ;)

I point you to my old thread on the changing definitions of hardcore in the modern games industry. :)

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 22:33
From what i have played so far Shogun 2 is a hard core game. it will punish you for even the smallest mistake.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:34
i will punish you for even the smallest mistake.

http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/oh_you.jpg

puzl
19th Mar 2011, 22:37
http://i.imgur.com/M7N1h.gif

All important aspects of this poll are highlighted for your assistance and convenience.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:39
http://i.imgur.com/M7N1h.gif

All important aspects of this poll are highlighted for your assistance and convenience.

http://media.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/image/youre-winner.jpg

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 22:40
Stupid microsoft keyboard coupled with the fact its so dark in here i cant even see the keys.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:41
Stupid microsoft keyboard coupled with the fact its so dark in here i cant even see the keys.

Why not circle each key in luminous orange marker, to help you?

puzl
19th Mar 2011, 22:41
Notice how in the image above, the poll is already done for you?

http://i.imgur.com/bn8Yu.gif

Irate_Iguana
19th Mar 2011, 22:45
Notice how in the image above, the poll is already done for you?

I thought it was a rather nice touch to speed up the entire process.

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 22:45
Why not circle each key in luminous orange marker, to help you?

If your buying. but im more a fan of Red on black myself.

puzl
19th Mar 2011, 22:46
Oops, sorry I forgot the highlight:

http://i.imgur.com/QSlm8.gif

:D

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 22:57
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff489/Hykeham94/xzibit.png


HOLD [HOLD FOR A TUTORIAL ON XZIBIT] FOR A TUTORIAL ON XZIBIT

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 23:01
Thats orange not Red ! . i wanted red and it gave me orange...i think the staff have some kind of plot.

puzl
19th Mar 2011, 23:03
http://i.imgur.com/ClUDu.jpg


hold [hold for a tutorial on xzibit] for a tutorial on xzibit

yo dawg, i heard you like highlights...

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:19
I have a feeling that "accessibility options" is defined by any mechanics in the game that you guys don't like. Am I right?

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 23:24
I have a feeling that "accessibility options" is defined by any mechanics in the game that you guys don't like. Am I right?

On the contrary. Features I personally don't like usually happen to be accessibility options. Why do we need a patronising highlight and a patronising objective marker? And why do you object to having the option to disable it? It would only take a matter of hours to fully implement. Everybody wins.

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:25
On the contrary. Features I personally don't like usually happen to be accessibility options. Why do we need a patronising highlight and a patronising objective marker? And why do you object to having the option to disable it? It would only take a matter of hours to fully implement. Everybody wins.

Ok, then what else would you define as an accessibility option? And I'm not advocating against options. Believe me, if you read my earliest posts, you would know I want options for everything(including a toggle for perspectives) I'm trying to get at another point.

Also, you are not advocating options in this thread, you are asking "Would you like Deus Ex difficulty level to disable some of the accessibility options?" Which, from my understanding, means if you want to play on hard, then certain features are shut off for everyone who tries on hard.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 23:27
Ok, then what else would you define as an accessibility option?

Objective marker, obtrusive item highlight as here, radar. In fact, come to that, I could live with any of these things if they were augs that had to be installed and use up power.

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:30
Objective marker, obtrusive item highlight as here, radar. In fact, come to that, I could live with any of these things if they were augs that had to be installed and use up power.

And do you like any of those things?

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 23:32
Which, from my understanding, means if you want to play on hard, then certain features are shut off for everyone who tries on hard.

Hitman did this, and I know from your profile that you like that series of games. At the end of the day, an objective marker (which I see as the larger evil) is a massive cheat, and it really shouldn't be in a supposedly hard playthrough. I could live with independent choices, of course, but bear in mind that this game will be released on the consoles, where we have achievements/trophies. Now, given that there will presumably be an achievement/trophy for finishing the game on DX difficulty, don't you think it really should present a genuine challenge to the player?

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 23:33
And do you like any of those things?

No, I don't. Not on a hard difficulty, anyway. By all means give those struggling with the game more help, as per Htman on rookie difficulty. Isn't this why we have difficulty levels?

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:43
Hitman did this, and I know from your profile that you like that series of games. At the end of the day, an objective marker (which I see as the larger evil) is a massive cheat, and it really shouldn't be in a supposedly hard playthrough. I could live with independent choices, of course, but bear in mind that this game will be released on the consoles, where we have achievements/trophies. Now, given that there will presumably be an achievement/trophy for finishing the game on DX difficulty, don't you think it really should present a genuine challenge to the player?

Only as much as a player want in terms of what you consider "accessibility options" (More on that later) hitman only did that with the map and saves, but even then you could always see your objective. I think if they made those other things additional augs or something on a harder difficulty there wouldn't be a problem. After all, then they miss out on other abilities that you could have.


No, I don't. Not on a hard difficulty, anyway. By all means give those struggling with the game more help, as per Htman on rookie difficulty. Isn't this why we have difficulty levels?

My philosophy on difficulty levels must differ from yours. I think it's lazy of game makers to make enemies have more health, and you have less(same with damage) and then call it a higher difficulty, I don't consider that fun to play because that's more of an exercise in monotony if the exact same tactics work like in halo or whatever. Hitman is different because with each difficulty, yes it does remove saves and limits a radar to a degree, but it adds new mechanics such as leftover evidence after the level, and increased AI behavior with different routines. BUT the player still has equal access to all his gear.

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:45
Now back on topic, would you agree that accessibility options are there for less skilled players?

Irate_Iguana
19th Mar 2011, 23:46
I have a feeling that "accessibility options" is defined by any mechanics in the game that you guys don't like. Am I right?

You're wrong. If it were just options that we don't like you'd see mentions of 3rd person takedowns, 3rd person cover, health regeneration and all the other things we've been having polls over for the last few years.

Pretentious Old Man.
19th Mar 2011, 23:47
Only as much as a player want in terms of what you consider "accessibility options" (More on that later) hitman only did that with the map and saves, but even then you could always see your objective. I think if they made those other things additional augs or something on a harder difficulty there wouldn't be a problem. After all, then they miss out on other abilities that you could have.



My philosophy on difficulty levels must differ from yours. I think it's lazy of game makers to make enemies have more health, and you have less(same with damage) and then call it a higher difficulty, I don't consider that fun to play because that's more of an exercise in monotony if the exact same tactics work like in halo or whatever. Hitman is different because with each difficulty, yes it does remove saves and limits a radar to a degree, but it adds new mechanics such as leftover evidence after the level, and increased AI behavior with different routines. BUT the player still has equal access to all his gear.

I don't like the "harder enemies" thing either, I like a hard setting to be a realistic setting, not a masochistic setting. I really don't see how removing the objective marker and only having objects highlight when the cross-hair is over them would make the game unwinnable, or even much harder frankly. I think it would just remove a chafing irritant.

By the way, I did enjoy most of what was in that video, and it seems we basically agree on most points. Out of curiosity, if you could disable the objective marker and lessen the pervasiveness of the highlighting, would you?

Reven
19th Mar 2011, 23:49
I only wish the video was longer it ended just as it was getting to the most interesting part.

Angel-A
19th Mar 2011, 23:50
hardcore mode for hardcore
HARDCORE TO THE MAX HARDCORE FANS HARDCORE

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:55
But that's taking mechanics away from the player instead of adding more mechanics to increase difficulty, which I am firmly against. I think if a person wants to do that, they should just play through it and give themselves as much of a handicap as they want rather than make it mandated. As I mentioned before, "you are not advocating options in this thread, you are asking 'Would you like Deus Ex difficulty level to disable some of the accessibility options?' Which, from my understanding, means if you want to play on hard, then certain features are shut off for everyone who tries on hard."

Edit: And I know you drew a link to hitman which has been discussed, I'm just saying it again because you haven't fully explained why these things should be disabled for everyone who wants to try hard

BigBoss
19th Mar 2011, 23:58
You're wrong. If it were just options that we don't like you'd see mentions of 3rd person takedowns, 3rd person cover, health regeneration and all the other things we've been having polls over for the last few years.

So you don't think those things were put in there for accessibility options for the masses?

Irate_Iguana
20th Mar 2011, 00:07
So you don't think those things were put in there for accessibility options for the masses?

No, I think they were put in to attract the masses. They deliver a certain style of gaming and familiar concepts so that a certain segment of the population would be attracted to the title that otherwise might not have been. Now, once you have attracted the masses you want them to actually play the game as well. In order to get them to do this they've added in the accessibility options. These guide the player into the game so that they don't immediately become frustrated and start talking about what a rubbish game this is.

I totally understand what you are saying about providing a toggle for these options in a menu instead of locking them out permanently because of a selected difficulty level. I could get behind that. On the other hand I do quite like the options being disabled based on difficulty level. There is something about beating a predetermined set of conditions.

BigBoss
20th Mar 2011, 00:16
ok, so are there any mechanics made to 'attract the masses' that you like?

Pretentious Old Man.
20th Mar 2011, 00:17
No, I think they were put in to attract the masses. They deliver a certain style of gaming and familiar concepts so that a certain segment of the population would be attracted to the title that otherwise might not have been. Now, once you have attracted the masses you want them to actually play the game as well. In order to get them to do this they've added in the accessibility options. These guide the player into the game so that they don't immediately become frustrated and start talking about what a rubbish game this is.

I totally understand what you are saying about providing a toggle for these options in a menu instead of locking them out permanently because of a selected difficulty level. I could get behind that. On the other hand I do quite like the options being disabled based on difficulty level. There is something about beating a predetermined set of conditions.

You pretty much summarised what I wanted to say, so I will just nod pompously and occasionally mutter "hear, hear!"

BigBoss
20th Mar 2011, 00:30
Do you guys realize what you're saying??? All the things you don't like about the game are either things to 'attract the masses' and 'accessibility options' and that the higher difficulty should lock out these things, effectively making the hard experience for only the people who play the way, or like the things that you do!

Irate_Iguana
20th Mar 2011, 00:41
ok, so are there any mechanics made to 'attract the masses' that you like?

Perhaps yes, but that depends on how you count. Allow me to ramble a bit. I don't like the switch between 3rd person and 1st person at all. Pick a viewpoint and stick to it. It makes any element tied to the switches immediately unlikeable. That is not the sole reason for disliking certain elements though. While I would have enjoyed a 1st person cover system, the cheating aspect of the current 3rd person system ruins it. The effect it has on level design is also a pity. My biggest problem with the takedown system is the inability to fail. Get close, press button and win. Both the 3rd person cover and takedowns would have been perfectly salvageable as far as I'm concerned and even be kept sufficiently flashy to broaden the appeal of the game.

Where it gets a bit muddy is the hacking system. Making a minigame out of it seems aimed at the masses. I don't like minigames. I'm still not too keen on the idea of having to play the minigame, but if they have managed to make it sufficiently involved it could turn out reasonable.

The current health regeneration system seems adequate enough to me. I'm fine with the resource management it brings and the regen speed makes it difficult to use as a get-out-of-jail-free card during combat. Although I do not know if this implementation would still count as attracting the masses.

Shralla
20th Mar 2011, 02:44
To be fair, we don't even know what Deus Ex mode brings with it. We don't even know what differences there are between the various difficulty levels other than the speed of health regen. For all we know, Deus Ex mode could be a compilation of all the things we've been asking for the whole time.

K^2
20th Mar 2011, 02:52
Do you guys realize what you're saying??? All the things you don't like about the game are either things to 'attract the masses' and 'accessibility options' and that the higher difficulty should lock out these things, effectively making the hard experience for only the people who play the way, or like the things that you do!
All of the people who want the hard difficulty seem to agree on this. There used to be time when hardcore difficulty was the only difficulty. The lower levels are accessibility options to attract masses. Why not keep all of such options in one place?

3rdmillhouse
20th Mar 2011, 03:01
Too late for that now.

TheUnbeholden
20th Mar 2011, 05:18
Ah, but "Deus Ex" is supposed to be a hardcore mode. I think that, in view of this, it really shouldn't have cheating options like objective markers on it.

Consider Hitman: Blood Money's system for what I'm thinking about. That's a good way to do things.

In other words... HardcoreMode for the Hardcore.

HARDCORE <-- (warning cover eyes!!?)

Accessibility is for general convenience and the uninitiated.
Lower difficulties are for the uninitiated, higher difficulty for those who are wanting a challenge and they are the ones who will learn to adapt. A big mistake is assuming your audience cannot adapt.

Another mistake is assuming that accessibility means only highlighting everything interactable from afar, and objective markers. When in actuality accessibility means alot of things, most of which I would be open to.

I'm all for accessibility aslong is its not telling me where to go, or what I can interact with merely by looking at its general direction from afar... those are 2 extremes which IMO are unnecessary visual noise.


Health regen would be something I would prefer disabled as well as 3rd person cover on Hardcore mode, those things serve to make the game easier IMO. But that would implementing a 'lean left and right', as well as making sure that without health regen that the game isn't to hard and has health restoratives in key places.

Neuromancer07
20th Mar 2011, 05:29
I'd rather it be a toggle accessible on all difficulty settings, also toggling those button prompts; Left 4 Dead 2 for instance has tool-tips enabled by default but can be easily turned off in the menu once one's acclimatised. I don't want to be forced to play the highest difficulty just to remove hand-holding when the game should prove a challenge on just normal.

Shralla
20th Mar 2011, 05:29
Health regen would be something I would prefer disabled as well as 3rd person cover on Hardcore mode, those things serve to make the game easier IMO.

A more accurate statement would be that removing those things makes the game harder, given that the entire game was balanced around both of them.

IdiotInAJeep
20th Mar 2011, 06:02
That's what he said.

Shralla
20th Mar 2011, 06:18
It's not the same thing, to be perfectly frank.

BigBoss
20th Mar 2011, 07:15
All of the people who want the hard difficulty seem to agree on this.

I'm having trouble with this, do you mean everyone on the thread who voted wants that? Or that people in general want a hard difficulty?

BigBoss
20th Mar 2011, 07:29
I'd rather it be a toggle accessible on all difficulty settings, also toggling those button prompts; Left 4 Dead 2 for instance has tool-tips enabled by default but can be easily turned off in the menu once one's acclimatised. I don't want to be forced to play the highest difficulty just to remove hand-holding when the game should prove a challenge on just normal.

This^ Because let's be honest guys, no one gives a **** if you beat the game with the "Hand holding" mechanics on or off, or even what difficulty you beat it on. It's something that you do for yourself, for your own satisfaction. No one is going to know what you accomplished in the game. Hell, I beat every mgs title on the hardest difficulty without killing anyone or knocking them out and never even seen. THAT is a challenge, but there is no way to prove I did it and that doesn't matter cuz I know I did it.

So if they leave those options in there for people to toggle it on or off, everybody wins. You can play dxhr on hard with them off, and someone else can beat it with them on. This idea that a whole difficulty should be customized to your liking and then everyone else should play that way is selfish, and not what dx is.

biofuel
20th Mar 2011, 07:29
To answer the question of this thread - they could but they won't.

VectorM
20th Mar 2011, 07:58
NO. It should be independent from the difficulty option, just like the Hardcore Mode in New Vegas.

Dragon Age 2 only added friendly fire, assassins stealing our options and all of the other cool **** only on the Highest difficulty. Which means, that I have to suffer through boring, 40 minute battles against people with 50000000 hp, just to make the game as tactical as the first one. It was bull****.

This is, ofcourse, assuming that difficulty works like in all other games. If the only changes were, say, less resources, more aggressive AI and such, then fine, put that in the highest difficulty. If not, separate mode please.


Unlimited saving can basically trivialize any difficulty level by allowing fine-grained retry of every individual task in a mission.

Sure, you could say it's up to the user whether they use saves or not, but the whole point of a difficulty level is so that the game enforces rules in an attempt to set up a given challenge level. A hardcore mode isn't very hardcore if all it means is you have to save more often

People don't like me for this, but i think, that a quick save option should not exist in a Deus Ex game at all. Right now, they have a limit of 4 hack attempts for example, which means jack squat, when you can pres one button before the hack attempt and save yourself from any negative consequences.

You should be limited to 4 or so saves per map and that should be it.

Senka
20th Mar 2011, 08:23
You should be limited to 4 or so saves per map and that should be it.
That would be interesting.

ZakKa89
20th Mar 2011, 08:34
4 saves per map is something for the hitman franchise. Doesn't fit in deus ex gameplay. Give it a rest already, if yo don't want to use quicksave DONT USE IT. Let those who want it use it.

BigBoss
20th Mar 2011, 08:50
It's this same old mindset of "I completed a challenge with this many handicaps, now everyone else should have to as well!"

VectorM
20th Mar 2011, 09:03
4 saves per map is something for the hitman franchise. Doesn't fit in deus ex gameplay.

And why does it not fit with Deus Ex gameplay?

Also, if you don't like the radar, don't look at it! If you don't like third person cover, don't use it! If you don't like the BioShock revival chambers, quick load when you die!

The players should fix all issues themselves!

Irate_Iguana
20th Mar 2011, 10:09
To be fair, we don't even know what Deus Ex mode brings with it. We don't even know what differences there are between the various difficulty levels other than the speed of health regen. For all we know, Deus Ex mode could be a compilation of all the things we've been asking for the whole time.

I for one would welcome that. I would also like them to start mentioning to us what DX mode would entail. There is no reason to be secretive about the options present at higher modes and it could serve as a marketing tool. I doubt that DX mode will mean more than a slightly larger amount of damage for the NPC's and less ammo for the player. EM seems very keen on making everything the same on all platforms and difficulty levels.



People don't like me for this, but i think, that a quick save option should not exist in a Deus Ex game at all. Right now, they have a limit of 4 hack attempts for example, which means jack squat, when you can pres one button before the hack attempt and save yourself from any negative consequences.

You should be limited to 4 or so saves per map and that should be it.

That would be perfect. Given that HR is all about the multipath solutions there will always be an option to complete the map no matter how bad you screw up. You will never be forced to start the entire mission again. All it will do is make you live with the consequences.

Ninjerk
20th Mar 2011, 18:17
And why does it not fit with Deus Ex gameplay?

Also, if you don't like the radar, don't look at it! If you don't like third person cover, don't use it! If you don't like the BioShock revival chambers, quick load when you die!

The players should fix all issues themselves!

Modding community should fix game balance keke

VectorM
20th Mar 2011, 18:21
Modding community should fix game balance keke

They won't give us mod support though. I've given up on that a long time ago.

GepardenK
20th Mar 2011, 18:39
In general game terms I do not think a hardcore mode is needed. It is very possible to make a game that is appealing to both casual and non-casual gamers. Minecraft, Morrorwind and the Classic Supermarios are a few examples, but even in an RPG/adventure shooter this should be perfectly possible (not often, if ever, attempted though).

In DX:HR as it looks today however a Hardcore mode with less handholding (read radars, markers and highlighting) would be nice. Also, love me some non regenerating health

xaduha
20th Mar 2011, 18:47
I wonder if Kyle reads every post on this forum...

Mindmute
20th Mar 2011, 18:51
NO. It should be independent from the difficulty option, just like the Hardcore Mode in New Vegas.

I'm agreeing with VectorM here. I'd preffer a be a toggle or a slider for the intensity of the outline/number highlighted of objects. Even an option to set the radius around the crosshair that causes objects to be highlighted would be welcome.

mahmoudd
20th Mar 2011, 19:14
Do you guys realize what you're saying??? All the things you don't like about the game are either things to 'attract the masses' and 'accessibility options' and that the higher difficulty should lock out these things, effectively making the hard experience for only the people who play the way, or like the things that you do!

go to option > turn off highligh/radar/thirdpersonwhatever

no?


They won't give us mod support though. I've given up on that a long time ago.

i hope there will be work arounds like what happened for GTA 4

VectorM
20th Mar 2011, 19:53
i hope there will be work arounds like what happened for GTA 4

What happened for GTA 4 exactly?

ArcR
21st Mar 2011, 00:46
Well... we haven't seen the PC HUD yet. I know they are going to add number key inventory and they may adjust other things. One thing that bugs me a bit is that it may be too late to change major concerns like 3rd person ladders. I don't pretend to know what is involved in removing things like the radar and accessibly features. I'm just hoping that the PC version makes it easier to select/remove these things.

FuzzyPuffin
21st Mar 2011, 16:31
That would be perfect. Given that HR is all about the multipath solutions there will always be an option to complete the map no matter how bad you screw up. You will never be forced to start the entire mission again. All it will do is make you live with the consequences.

The multiparh options is the reason I like unlimited saves. Not because I want to "cheat," but because after I've played through the game once and lived with the consequences (I can make myself live with them, I don't need the game enforcing me), I can go back to any point and try a different approach.