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ShadowXOR
7th Feb 2011, 00:15
Honestly, I'm buying it without question, but mainly I want to see how it runs on my PC. If it doesn't run well I'll get it for 360.


*Moderator Edit*



We have total confidence in our design choices and this debate has given us the desire to create a demo to prove our points. Starting next week, we'll work with marketing and we'll do our best to release a demo. Attention, i'm not promising anything, but we'll try!

The debate is open and this time, i've invited JF, my director for the game, to join us. We'll have fun.
David Anfossi


If you wish to contribute, go here:
http://www.gameblog.fr/blogs/eidosmo...mo-ou-pas-demo


Thanks to MrFoxter for this info.


EM Blog (translation from FR) (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gameblog.fr%2Fblogs%2Feidosmontreal%2Fp_30212_demo-ou-pas-demo)


Demo or no demo?!
March 17, 2011 @ 18h35 - 17 Mars 2011 @ 18h35

I receive many requests from players who want a demo of the game in some cases, these players have already preordered the game (thank you to them).

First, you should know that it's all a challenge to produce a demo and even more for a game like Deus Ex are a few things that a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution should support:
o Introduce the world to the player but does not reveal too much history
o Educate the player controls
o Demonstrate experience of game (Fighting, Infiltration, Social Interactions and Hacking)
o Demonstrate the choices and consequences
o Demonstrate Multi Solutions
o Demonstrate the multi path
o Give you the urge to buy the game!

So if I take all these parameters into account, we are talking about a demo for about 45 minutes to 1 hour ... This is much longer than the usual 15 minutes.

So I ask the following questions:
• Do you want a demo of the game and why (are you skeptical about the quality of play, cautious to invest 70 Euros or just impatient)?
• I have given you my vision of what would be a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. But you, what do you expect from a game demo?

David Anfossi - PRODUCER
http://twitter.com/DavidAnfossi

I don't speak French, so feel free to correct the translation, you French speakers ;)

**
www.gameblog.fr/blogs/eidosmontreal/

If you don't understand French, you use an online translator:
http://translate.google.com/#

Dead-Eye
7th Feb 2011, 00:42
The first system it was confirmed for was the PC. Then, everything that came out was shown on the 360. Finally we got an Eyefinity demo, that wasn't super clear, but showed dx11 support and hardware tessellation. Now that the press is getting their hands on with the game, its all on the 360 and the PC version isn't ready.

All I'm saying is that the development of this game has been a constant back and forth, between disappointment and sighs of relief. Just keep your fingers crossed.

ranmafan
8th Feb 2011, 05:23
There was a tweet on one of the Deus Ex:HR related accounts with a poll regarding almost this exact thing: "Would you want a playable demo of DE:HR?"

I don't remember the account, but it shouldn't be TOO hard to find I hope.

jtr7
8th Feb 2011, 05:32
That's odd.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 06:35
There was a tweet on one of the Deus Ex:HR related accounts with a poll regarding almost this exact thing: "Would you want a playable demo of DE:HR?"

I don't remember the account, but it shouldn't be TOO hard to find I hope.

It was the twitter account of a fan site, if I remember correctly.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
8th Feb 2011, 07:01
Demo would be nice, but let's face it... it's Deus Ex, a demo is kinda unnecessary, everyone is going to try it, I'd rather see resources on DLC and SDK. If they managed both it would be groovy gravy for the next ten years.

Mindmute
8th Feb 2011, 11:18
Shadowrunner;1564165']Demo would be nice, but let's face it... it's Deus Ex, a demo is kinda unnecessary

A demo is *never* unnecessary. If I'm expected to shell out a somewhat relevant chunk of cash onto a product, I should at least know if the product's quality is worth the money I'm spending.
Thinking otherwise and buying based on the brand is part of the reason why this industry can chuck out more garbage than it should and still be economically viable.

Kvltism
8th Feb 2011, 11:35
a demo is *never* unnecessary. If i'm expected to shell out a somewhat relevant chunk of cash onto a product, i should at least know if the product's quality is worth the money i'm spending.
Thinking otherwise and buying based on the brand is part of the reason why this industry can chuck out more garbage than it should and still be economically viable.

this

Rindill the Red
8th Feb 2011, 14:32
The way I look at it... lack of demo==trying to push ****ty product on customers.

Kodaemon
8th Feb 2011, 14:46
no demo released -> people flock to torrents to try before they buy -> publisher says PC gamers are dirty pirates who should be glad they even get a ****ty port

puzl
8th Feb 2011, 15:20
After the complete PR disaster than was the DX:IW demo, don't expect a PC demo anytime soon, at least not until after the official release date.

puzl
8th Feb 2011, 15:24
Oh and FWIW, I played the original DX demo from a PC Gamer cover-disc back in 2001, which prompted me to buy the game. It was a huge demo too and let you play the first two stages from what I remember.

I even tried using the save data on my proper retail copy, but alas it wouldn't work.

Demos DO sell copies. But it's a double edged sword, because if the player doesn't like it, they're not going to buy it. There is a reason that most demos released today are for games that are either already released or assured to sell/review highly. Publishers don't want to take any chances, sadly.

Another sign of the times.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 16:15
The way I look at it... lack of demo==trying to push ****ty product on customers.

Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.

Pretentious Old Man.
8th Feb 2011, 16:16
It should be noted at this juncture that DX1 had one of the most generous demos of any games I've ever played (Liberty Island + UNATCO). I logged two hours just getting through the demo once. For a demo, that's pretty damn impressive. Naturally, I played it over and over though.

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:18
Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.

In before the "Without a demo how do we know it's a better end-product before putting down our hard-earned cash?" response. :)

It's an interesting question. Knowing what I know and having seen what I've seen, I'd choose the additional polish. I'm in a rather unique position among this community though, so I don't suppose that counts.

Pretentious Old Man.
8th Feb 2011, 16:29
In before the "Without a demo how do we know it's a better end-product before putting down our hard-earned cash?" response. :)

It's an interesting question. Knowing what I know and having seen what I've seen, I'd choose the additional polish. I'm in a rather unique position among this community though, so I don't suppose that counts.

With respect, that suggests that you thought it was unpolished.

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:34
With respect, that suggests that you thought it was unpolished.

It was only recently that the message came out that the game is fully playable from start to finish. I went up there way back in October. "Unfinished game is unfinished".

Edit:

It speaks a bit about the nature of yourself that you opted to focus on the "Thought it was unpolished" suggestion rather than the "I thought it was good enough to not need a demo closer to release" suggestion. Just an observation. :)

Aegrim
8th Feb 2011, 16:38
In before the "Without a demo how do we know it's a better end-product before putting down our hard-earned cash?" response. :)

It's an interesting question. Knowing what I know and having seen what I've seen, I'd choose the additional polish. I'm in a rather unique position among this community though, so I don't suppose that counts.


Gotta remember, you're part of the inner workings of the machine, you're part of the PR department which isn't too far from marketing.
We're never gunna take everything you say for face value.

Nothing personnel, just with the amount of over hyped, under performing but still selling games getting put out at the moment, we really do have to swim through lakes of **** to find islands of gold.

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:40
Gotta remember, you're part of the inner workings of the machine, you're part of the PR department which isn't too far from marketing.
We're never gunna take everything you say for face value.

Nothing personnel, just with the amount of over hyped, under performing but still selling games getting put out at the moment, we really do have to swim through lakes of **** to find islands of gold.

Well, uh, no I'm not. I don't presently work for Eidos Montreal. Or Square. I'm a free agent tasked with keeping this place in line. Not to mention I made that trip on my own dime and stayed with a friend.

Aegrim
8th Feb 2011, 16:42
Well, uh, no I'm not. I don't presently work for Eidos Montreal. Or Square. I'm a free agent tasked with keeping this place in line. Not to mention I made that trip on my own dime and stayed with a friend.

Yeah... suuurreee you did. ;)

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:44
Yeah... suuurreee you did. ;)

You may opt to call me a liar if you'd like. You would be wrong if you did so.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 16:46
Yeah... suuurreee you did. ;)

The man's telling the truth!

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:49
The man's telling the truth!

I'm open to being made a paid, biased employee though. Seriously. I'll take the money. :whistle:

Kodaemon
8th Feb 2011, 16:51
In this particular case, I don't doubt it. But since we're on the topic of Eidos' approach to truth:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4467/421830261h95gcl2.jpg

MaxxQ1
8th Feb 2011, 16:56
Well, uh, no I'm not. I don't presently work for Eidos Montreal. Or Square. I'm a free agent tasked with keeping this place in line. Not to mention I made that trip on my own dime and stayed with a friend.

Now see? You missed an opportunity:

Mr. K/Jerion went to EM on his own dime and stayed with friends.

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 16:57
Damn, I forgot that was there.

Pretentious Old Man.
8th Feb 2011, 16:58
It speaks a bit about the nature of yourself that you opted to focus on the "Thought it was unpolished" suggestion rather than the "I thought it was good enough to not need a demo closer to release" suggestion. Just an observation. :)

No game is good enough to not need a demo, Mr K (because that will always be your name dammit!) In fact, most of the truly awesome games I've played had awesome demos (Morrowind is an honourable exception).

If I hadn't been able to play DX's demo, I would never have gotten into it. I know it sounds odd now, but I was initially sceptical of DX1. It only took me about 10 minutes of play to fall in love with it, though. ;)

Rheinhold
8th Feb 2011, 17:00
And the rights of playing the game before release, sure!

What I think, is that if making a demo cuts away so much time from game polishing, there must have gone something wrong in the planning of the development. DX1 demo, for as far as I can tell, was just Deus Ex, excluding 80+ % of the game's content.
How long would it take to just cut everything but the first level and keep the 'training' level as well (if it was there)? You can have the demo finished by a rather small team then, within the week. If that demo really shows that the game is the 'island of gold' we are hoping for, we can wait that 'lost' week as well. At least I know I can. :)

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 17:07
No game is good enough to not need a demo, Mr K (because that will always be your name dammit!) In fact, most of the truly awesome games I've played had awesome demos (Morrowind is an honourable exception).

If I hadn't been able to play DX's demo, I would never have gotten into it. I know it sounds odd now, but I was initially sceptical of DX1. It only took me about 10 minutes of play to fall in love with it, though. ;)

Fair call I s'pose. I can't say I completely agree or sympathize with you here, as I've played very few demos prior to buying the full game (internet connection being too slow in the past to make it practical). Most games I pick up have sufficient gameplay and videolog materials available that I ended up taking a leap of faith. Only been burned by that twice: Invisible War and Far Cry 2. IWar had too many showstopper technical problems for me to even finish the damn thing, and FC2 just got frustratingly dull.

Edit:
I agree with the principle of the thing. If there were a title that I knew little about or was considering buying, I'd want a demo to check it out. For me personally, what I experienced of DX:HR made me confident enough to feel comfortable forgoing a pre-release public demo. As I said I'm in a rather unique position so I'm not sure my opinion qualifies with the responses to Kyle's question.

puzl
8th Feb 2011, 17:19
Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.

Make a demo AND polish the game. Then just release it when both are ready. Simples.

Publishers need to realise (or rather, re-realise) that there is NO better marketing tool than a demo of the full game. I'm sure I don't need to explain the reasons why.

I remember a time when all games were given an extra bit of development time for the demo. I miss that.

Dead-Eye
8th Feb 2011, 17:26
I thought Far Cry 2 was better then Fry Cry 1, although they really should have called it something else, seeing as the two games have nothing to do with each other.

As for a Demo, I agree with the statement that not being able to make a Demo off of the content they already have is a mess up in priorities. I mean, the Demo really should be just some content from the regular game packaged by itself. How hard can it be to make that if you knew in advance you are going to make it? I won't pretend to understand how the Crystal Dynamics engine works, but I would imagine if the engine is worth its salt, making a Demo would be fairly easy. All you need to do it copy the engine, the content you want for the Demo. Make a splash screen that says "Buy this game" after the player beats the demo, and then package the demo the same way you would any other game.

Sure it's work, but is it really that hard? Would it really take away from polishing, especially now that they have extra time?

Really, I'm hoping that the only reason we haven't seen the Demo yet is because they want to polish the game quit a bit more before they give us a demo. That's an acceptable excuse, IMO.

Ashpolt
8th Feb 2011, 17:30
Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.

In general? Gah, I can't choose. Obviously at the end of the day I'd rather the game's better, but not having a demo may lead me (and others) to never knowing if the game is any good or not.

With regards to DXHR though (and let's face it, that's what's important here) - the game's been delayed, possibly for up to 9 months or so, and from the information we have it seems that this delay is more a strategic one, rather than one borne of necessity: i.e. SE are doing it to "juke the stats" (The Wire FTW) rather than because the game in its current state is unplayable (at least, on consoles, but let's ignore the whole PC debate for a second.) That being the case, you guys absolutely have the time to create a demo and release a decently polished product.

Picking up the PC debate again, but on topic: I won't be buying this game for consoles. I have both a 360 and a PS3, but this game is (mostly....apparently) first person, and I much prefer mouse and keyboard for that. So for me, it's PC or nothing. Sadly, the industry's attitude to PC releases at the moment, combined with the fact that we still haven't seen any officially released PC footage of this game, and it's still being demoed on 360 to PC-specific journalists, makes me very concerned that we won't be seeing anything more than a clumsy port here - and I won't buy a clumsy port either. So for me, a demo is pretty much a necessity just from a technical (performance, options, UI) perspective, even irrespective of gameplay (though, of course, that'd be nice too.)


It speaks a bit about the nature of yourself that you opted to focus on the "Thought it was unpolished" suggestion rather than the "I thought it was good enough to not need a demo closer to release" suggestion. Just an observation. :)

I don't think there's any game that's good enough to not need a demo, because without a demo, you may never know it's good. Game X could be the best game in the world, but until I've played it myself, I'm not going to know if it's worth the purchase - there's no way you can trust critical opinions (after all, critics think Halo and Gears of War are 95%+ games while STALKER gets low 80s.) As such, it's either demo or piracy, and neither I nor the industry likes the latter.

Ninjerk
8th Feb 2011, 18:06
I remember getting a demo disc from Incite magazine with the Deus Ex demo (which I played probably 25 times or so, didn't end up buying DX or playing it through until about 4 or 5 years ago) AND the UT99 demo (with the Coret CTF level on it). I can't tell you how many hours I sunk into UT99, but if I had been the age I am now back then I would have immediately bought both games.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 18:33
Few things...

There isn't a "mess up in priorities" here, as Dead-Eye suggests. Really, the team is pushing very, very, very hard to make DX:HR the absolute best it can be. If anything, the team is making the game bigger, and filled with more content, than they anticipated. They're fans, and this has been a dream project. Can you blame them?

Also, there seems to be a big misconception that publishers and developers don't understand the importance of a demo. That's not true. At all. We're gamers, too, and we know how a demo can influence our own purchasing decisions, as well as those of consumers with varying levels of purchase intent. As someone who used to pay the bills as a journalist, I often had opportunities to talk with developers of all kinds (from triple-A to MMO developers based in China), and almost all of them expressed a desire to get their products into the hands of consumers. The actual act of putting together the demo is sometimes a logistical nightmare, though, with the developers having to encapsulate the core game experience into a concise piece of code, not to mention finding the free time to put all this together. Add on top of that the complexities of distribution, syncing it all with marketing, and and and. I'm not at all saying this is what's going on here, this is what I've learned as a humble game journalist.

We really, really appreciate your interest in a demo. We know EVERYONE wants one at this point (how could we not?). But please, now that I've said all this, don't say that it's "easy" to release a demo, or that "the game is done and EM needs to now work on a demo." Neither are correct, and neither further the discussion in a positive way.

Ashpolt
8th Feb 2011, 18:41
Just a suggestion, but couldn't you release the Detroit Police Station press demo from last year? Obviously it'd need a few nips and tucks here and there, but as I understand it's a single game section that well encapsulates the multi-path, multi-solution nature of the game, and it's already been pulled out in standalone demo form.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 18:56
Just a suggestion, but couldn't you release the Detroit Police Station press demo from last year? Obviously it'd need a few nips and tucks here and there, but as I understand it's a single game section that well encapsulates the multi-path, multi-solution nature of the game, and it's already been pulled out in standalone demo form.

Not at all. There have been many, many changes to the game since then, including fine-tuning balance, better graphics...better everything. It was also absolutely riddled with bugs, as almost all preview codes are. If we wanted to release this as a demo, we'd have to go in, implement all the changes that have been made since that build, fix the existing bugs, and then find anymore bugs that might surface.

Jerion
8th Feb 2011, 19:08
Not at all. There have been many, many changes to the game since then, including fine-tuning balance, better graphics...better everything. It was also absolutely riddled with bugs, as almost all preview codes are. If we wanted to release this as a demo, we'd have to go in, implement all the changes that have been made since that build, fix the existing bugs, and then find anymore bugs that might surface.

Would be a fantastic demo though. Just saying.

Coyotegrey
8th Feb 2011, 19:11
Would be a fantastic demo though. Just saying.

haha we couldn't agree more. Which makes us both :) and :(

pi r squared
8th Feb 2011, 19:31
Without a demo i'll just torrent it to give it a try, i'd like the box etc since i'm a big Deus Ex fan.Such a big fan that you'd happily torrent the game, and then only go out and purchase it if you could be bothered (and didn't "laze out"). Gee, Deus Ex needs more fans like you... :rolleyes:

motsm
8th Feb 2011, 19:32
Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.It doesn't have to be either or.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Feb 2011, 19:33
I've never required a demo before deciding to buy a game.

Mindmute
8th Feb 2011, 19:42
I've never required a demo before deciding to buy a game.

I do. Without being disrespectful, you're likely a minority on that account.

Kodaemon
8th Feb 2011, 19:42
I've never required a demo before deciding to buy a game.

Yes, but you are a very special person.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
8th Feb 2011, 19:45
I do. Without being disrespectful, you're likely a minority on that account.
I'm sure you are correct, so no disrespect taken.
I don't own a "LOT" of games though - I'm very fussy about what I wish to spend my time on. I haven't been disappointed yet though, so I must be doing something right. :D



Yes, but you are a very special person.
Absolutely!

Shralla
8th Feb 2011, 19:55
Yes, but you are a very special person.

I would venture to say that her statement is true of the vast majority of people.

Red
8th Feb 2011, 21:03
The game is being polished. > MaxxQ1 :)

Rindill the Red
8th Feb 2011, 22:53
I think in the interest of capitalism... all consumers deserve to be fully informed about what they are purchasing. So that when I get a game I'm making a decision that will lead to the greatest satisfaction. Nevertheless, it's always a gamble I guess.

Ashpolt
9th Feb 2011, 01:06
Not at all. There have been many, many changes to the game since then, including fine-tuning balance, better graphics...better everything. It was also absolutely riddled with bugs, as almost all preview codes are. If we wanted to release this as a demo, we'd have to go in, implement all the changes that have been made since that build, fix the existing bugs, and then find anymore bugs that might surface.

Sorry, I didn't mean that exact demo, I meant simply couldn't you use that section of the game? Obviously it'd have to be re-compiled (or whatever the appropriate technical term is there) from the most up-to-date build, but in terms of story it's early on enough in the game that it shouldn't spoil too much (I assume?) and gameplay wise it's already apparently a great showcase for all the different "pillars" equally. Also, from what I understand from previews it sounds like it's a fairly self-contained area / mission, definitely not a hub area, so there's a clear start and end point to it (it's a Versalife HQ rather than a Hell's Kitchen.)

Basically, what I mean is you wouldn't have to create an entirely new area for the demo, or even significantly change existing areas (like the Bioshock / Arkham Asylum demos.) But hell, that's based on a whole lot of assumption on my part. For all I know, the press demo of Detroit PD HQ may itself have been a heavily edited form of the actual level.

FrankCSIS
9th Feb 2011, 02:45
Considering you guys have an extra level laying around for the pre-order exclusives, I wouldn't bring up the lack of time or ressource in the discussion :whistle:

Nothing is easy when it comes to such an enormous group project. Saying otherwise would simply be silly. It is, however, obviously possible. All depends where the priorities are.

Ashpolt
9th Feb 2011, 02:46
Considering you guys have an extra level laying around for the pre-order exclusives, I wouldn't bring up the lack of time or ressource in the discussion :whistle:

http://iworkfortheinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/youwin1internets.jpg

FrankCSIS
9th Feb 2011, 02:56
Splendid! It'll be on display atop the fireplace.

K^2
9th Feb 2011, 04:13
Considering you guys have an extra level laying around for the pre-order exclusives, I wouldn't bring up the lack of time or ressource in the discussion :whistle:
Man makes a good point. Demo brings in new sales. Pre-order bonuses merely bring in pre-orders on sales that will in all likelihood be made anyways.

And yes, I'm well aware of the fact that some people are going to make more money from high pre-order numbers rather than long-term sales. If these are the people who are calling the shots on the project, you don't really have a high ground to talk about demo vs quality.

Dead-Eye
9th Feb 2011, 06:23
Few things...

There isn't a "mess up in priorities" here, as Dead-Eye suggests. Really, the team is pushing very, very, very hard to make DX:HR the absolute best it can be. If anything, the team is making the game bigger, and filled with more content, than they anticipated. They're fans, and this has been a dream project. Can you blame them?

Also, there seems to be a big misconception that publishers and developers don't understand the importance of a demo. That's not true. At all. We're gamers, too, and we know how a demo can influence our own purchasing decisions, as well as those of consumers with varying levels of purchase intent. As someone who used to pay the bills as a journalist, I often had opportunities to talk with developers of all kinds (from triple-A to MMO developers based in China), and almost all of them expressed a desire to get their products into the hands of consumers. The actual act of putting together the demo is sometimes a logistical nightmare, though, with the developers having to encapsulate the core game experience into a concise piece of code, not to mention finding the free time to put all this together. Add on top of that the complexities of distribution, syncing it all with marketing, and and and. I'm not at all saying this is what's going on here, this is what I've learned as a humble game journalist.

We really, really appreciate your interest in a demo. We know EVERYONE wants one at this point (how could we not?). But please, now that I've said all this, don't say that it's "easy" to release a demo, or that "the game is done and EM needs to now work on a demo." Neither are correct, and neither further the discussion in a positive way.

I guess my complaint is more about game engines, then anything else. Good game engines make adding content and packaging that content for distribution a breeze, bad game engines, well they... they are something else entirely, that we wont go into.

It's just that if I was an engine programmer, I would make the file structure such that content files and the engine files would be separated, and compiled independently. That way if I had multiple games, all running the same engine, I could take content from one game and add it to another just by copying files over (This is essentially how the Unreal Engine works). This would allow me to make multiple games/demos that can easily share content, without the need to recompile from source every time I want to add content. This would also allow DLC to be implamented with little fuss(In comparison) as well. Then again, I can't assume that the crystal dynamics engine works like this, so it could be a lot harder (even if it's needlessly so).

As for Demos and Bugs, I pose a question to the community. Dose it really matter if the Demo has a lot of bugs? I mean, I almost don't see the point of polishing a Demo. There so short already and they generally never represent the game's polish and I think people know that. On top of that, strangely enough, Bugs give them good replay value. I just don't see the point in wasting time polishing a demo when your not even selling the damn thing. If it's horribly bug ridden, will that effect sales? IDK, but my gut tells me no because most demos are horribly bug ridden.

Still, again, I won't pretend to know anything about the crystal dynamic engine. If their polishing the game, just keep doing that. Demos aren't that impotent to me personally anyway (Although when the Demo dose come out I will probably play it more then any other demo I have played before because, after all, it is Deus Ex).


Considering you guys have an extra level laying around for the pre-order exclusives, I wouldn't bring up the lack of time or ressource in the discussion :whistle:


Unless the extra level IS the demo! *Deus Ex hum*

MaxxQ1
9th Feb 2011, 06:38
The game is being polished. > MaxxQ1 :)

Added.

Third one today AAMoF.

Coyotegrey
9th Feb 2011, 07:50
Considering you guys have an extra level laying around for the pre-order exclusives, I wouldn't bring up the lack of time or ressource in the discussion :whistle:

Nothing is easy when it comes to such an enormous group project. Saying otherwise would simply be silly. It is, however, obviously possible. All depends where the priorities are.

No. You have no extra incite into development here. You can't make sweeping statements and say they're based on facts. I can understand your frustrations and desire for a demo, but please don't act as if you know the intimate inner-workings of this, or any, studio, unless you have facts to back up your claims.

Edit: Dead-Eye, it's not best for us, or almost any other dev/publisher to release a demo riddled with bugs. Savvy, hardcore, and understanding consumers like yourselves may be okay with a product like this, but everyone else...maybe not so much. The end result can be...disastrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iddp4fGBFV8&feature=fvwrel

BigBoss
9th Feb 2011, 08:45
^^First paragraph is a win. To throw in my two cents as an average consumer on demos, I thought the case zero demo/self contained game prequel was brilliant. Oh...and it better be freaking polished. Low quality demo= low quality game in my eyes. You don't watch a movie trailer with incomplete effects.

ZakKa89
9th Feb 2011, 08:51
You guys remember the half life 1 demo which was basically stand alone and more of a tutorial? It was called hazard course and that's an awesome way to do a demo.

jtr7
9th Feb 2011, 10:07
You don't watch a movie trailer with incomplete effects.

We do. Often. So it helps to keep up with entertainment insiders so we can make sure some bad effects in the trailers will be polished when the movie comes out.

Kodaemon
9th Feb 2011, 10:32
You guys remember the half life 1 demo which was basically stand alone and more of a tutorial? It was called hazard course and that's an awesome way to do a demo.

Half-Life actually had multiple demos, the one I played was called Uplink, and was a whole new level not included in the game.

F.E.A.R also had an interesting demo, it was sort of stitched together from parts of various levels from the game.

ranmafan
9th Feb 2011, 10:41
It's just that if I was an engine programmer, I would make the file structure such that content files and the engine files would be separated, and compiled independently. That way if I had multiple games, all running the same engine, I could take content from one game and add it to another just by copying files over (This is essentially how the Unreal Engine works). This would allow me to make multiple games/demos that can easily share content, without the need to recompile from source every time I want to add content. This would also allow DLC to be implamented with little fuss(In comparison) as well. Then again, I can't assume that the crystal dynamics engine works like this, so it could be a lot harder (even if it's needlessly so).


No. You have no extra incite into development here. You can't make sweeping statements and say they're based on facts. I can understand your frustrations and desire for a demo, but please don't act as if you know the intimate inner-workings of this, or any, studio, unless you have facts to back up your claims.
etc. etc.

Agree with Coyotegrey, sadly. No one game, regardless of the engine used, is THAT compartmentalized - Every single game is a specific series of exceptions for any number of gameplay features unique to that game. The engine itself changes over projects as well - Asset handling code, LUA script and legacy support, etc. change over each iteration of the engine.

So no, a demo wouldn't be as easy as plug and play. In our company our 'demos' are specifically created with the 'God of War' mentality - the 1st hour of gameplay is a large vertical slice that fits into the complete product while at the same time being an independent playable entity. It's ALWAYS the first to be developed, polished and completed before the rest of the game, and our games are childishly simple compared to AAA titles. Even so, our engine evolves every project so much so that something we released 6 months ago wouldn't run on a current-iteration engine.

It might be hard to create a demo of DE:HR that encompasses enough features to whet a potential buyer's appetite while holding back enough to keep us wanting more.

That said, I still want a demo!! >_<

puzl
9th Feb 2011, 11:42
The God of War 3 demo was from an E3 build wasn't it? In fact, I played it back at the Eurogamer convention in London back in 2009. This exact build was eventually released as a demo months later, even though the final game used completely different rendering processes and looked much, much better.

I still say a demo should be part of the development cycle from day 1 and time should be allocated prior to retail launch so that they can be released. Nowadays, they're put on the back burner or not released at all.

Coyote says that the devs/pubs are all gamers and that they know what gamers want. Why is it that he always seems to be on damage control every time he posts here? :lol:

Anyway, I hope we do get a demo... and a PC one at that.

K^2
9th Feb 2011, 11:50
Unreal is a bit of a separate story. Fact that the hard-coded core engine is fixed across multiple games is what allows resources to be moved freely. It's a good way to write plug-and play engine, sure, but it doesn't make it a universally good way to write any engine.

That said, Dead-Eye is right on the main points. A well-written engine allows for relatively painless way to make a demo. And the Crystal Dynamics engine that the EM is using is more than sufficiently compartmentalized to allow for that. Keep in mind that we've already seen one demo run on that engine. Resource management should not have changed too much, and the rendering/physics, which is where the engine has been modified, don't enter into this. So making HR demo should be no more difficult than making TRU demo.

Also keep in mind that EM already had to write one demo. One that they've been showing off at places. Yes, it's more of a quick-and-dirty version, but they don't need to sit down and develop a demo from scratch. They need to take a demo they already have, and make it presentable to general public.

ranmafan
9th Feb 2011, 12:02
Unreal is a bit of a separate story. Fact that the hard-coded core engine is fixed across multiple games is what allows resources to be moved freely. It's a good way to write plug-and play engine, sure, but it doesn't make it a universally good way to write any engine.

That said, Dead-Eye is right on the main points. A well-written engine allows for relatively painless way to make a demo. And the Crystal Dynamics engine that the EM is using is more than sufficiently compartmentalized to allow for that. Keep in mind that we've already seen one demo run on that engine. Resource management should not have changed too much, and the rendering/physics, which is where the engine has been modified, don't enter into this. So making HR demo should be no more difficult than making TRU demo.

Also keep in mind that EM already had to write one demo. One that they've been showing off at places. Yes, it's more of a quick-and-dirty version, but they don't need to sit down and develop a demo from scratch. They need to take a demo they already have, and make it presentable to general public.

Although I must argue here - the Demos you've seen at these shows have almost always been carbon copies of each other in terms of the steps the person demo'ing took (pull out pistol, point at guy, talk to bouncer, etc.). Something about it strikes me as a 'linear' demo - you can't deviate from the content shown because there IS nothing else in it.

It's merely my suspicion, but I suspect EM has some major bugs that need quashing in time for their planned release, and things aren't going well. I doubt a demo will be released until after the game is released (and possibly an after-release patch...)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Feb 2011, 12:02
I would venture to say that her statement is true of the vast majority of people.
Logic would suggest this is correct. There must be more games sold, than demos played.

VectorM
9th Feb 2011, 12:03
You don't watch a movie trailer with incomplete effects.

I have seen movie trailers, where the effects in the trailer didn't match the effects in the movie.

Mindmute
9th Feb 2011, 12:08
Logic would suggest this is correct. There must be more games sold, than demos played.

I hope that's not true for the sake of good games in general, since that's a big step towards contributing to the "game sells just because it's the generic sequel to generic game number twenty three" market plan that some videogames keep pushing.

I'm not talking about you specifically, you obviously have good taste in games otherwise you wouldn't be here, but the ridiculous ammounts of buyers who aren't voting with their wallets are contributing to the way this industry is "growing up".


For me, personally, the demo is part of that vote and I'll rarely buy a game without trying it first.

Kodaemon
9th Feb 2011, 12:15
Logic would suggest this is correct. There must be more games sold, than demos played.

Your original statement said you never required a demo before deciding whether to buy a game.

I postulate that most people sometimes require a demo, not that they always require one.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
9th Feb 2011, 12:20
... you obviously have good taste in games otherwise you wouldn't be here...
Correct. :)


Your original statement said you never required a demo before deciding whether to buy a game.
I postulate that most people sometimes require a demo, not that they always require one.

Of course. My original statement expressed my own personal opinion on the matter.

ZakKa89
9th Feb 2011, 12:35
I have seen movie trailers, where the effects in the trailer didn't match the effects in the movie.

This is actually quite common. Also, scenes sued in the trailer sometimes end up not being in the final movie.


Half-Life actually had multiple demos, the one I played was called Uplink, and was a whole new level not included in the game.

F.E.A.R also had an interesting demo, it was sort of stitched together from parts of various levels from the game.

Yeah I remember Uplink as well. Great stuff.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
9th Feb 2011, 12:47
I play Uplink all the time, when I want a quick bit of action.

7h30n
9th Feb 2011, 13:15
Unfortunately, I find it hard to believe, but it is true that a lot of people buy video games solely based on how many ads they see for it or how cool the box in a store looks like. I know it happens in my country where we have 0 (zero, nil) commercials on tv or anywhere else for a video game. I can only guess how strong the marketing is in countries where there are ads for video games on tv.

Demo is a risk for developers. They have to invest a lot of work into a demo and it can backfire on them because people experience the game and realise the gameplay doesn't suit them but they were willing to buy the game solely on trailers.
On the other hand, Demo can redeem itself by being better than any trailer for the game and attract even more people.

The most recent example where demo backfired would be Aliens vs Predator (3). The trailers looked awesome and people were willing to buy the game. Then Rebellion & Sega released the demo and people realised how horrible job Rebellion did. Although they tried to cover it up by stating that demo is a work in progress (I'm not excluding that it was) but the final product wasn't any better.

Bulletstorm has a demo released on consoles but not on PC. Do you know why?
Trailers look good, but a friend of mine who works for a video games magazine got the Bulletstorm demo on xbox 360 and he states the game is boring and will fail on PC. The combat is slow although it was advertised as the return of fast paced shooter in vein of UT and Quake, there is no jump button which constricts movement and skill, most cool moves are done with a simple push of a button - almost no skill. He doesn't think the game will work on PC especially so when people still play Quake 3 and do some amazing feats of agility.
It was the right decision for them not to release Bulletstorm demo on PC because people won't know how bad the game is until they buy it.

Honestly, I don't see it being worthwile for Eidos to release the demo of the game. The game looks attractive enough solely based on trailers and I don't think they will (or should) risk scaring away buyers with a demo.

I would really love to play a demo because I never, ever buy a game without trying it out first, but people like me are a minority and I doubt it we will hurt sales of this game. The real/expected profit will come from buyers on the release day/week. Everything else is an extra (some people buying later by word of mouth, buying after trying the pirated copy, buying it on discount...).

Anyways, to bring my pessimistic (or realistic?) post to an end. From my point of view (consumer, I'm not finance expert) I don't see releasing a demo for Human Revolution before the game comes out financialy viable.

Red
9th Feb 2011, 13:23
On the topic of Crystal dynamics engine demos: Demos of EVERY Legacy of Kain and Tomb Raider game exist.

puzl
9th Feb 2011, 15:06
Bulletstorm has a demo released on consoles but not on PC. Do you know why?
Trailers look good, but a friend of mine who works for a video games magazine got the Bulletstorm demo on xbox 360 and he states the game is boring and will fail on PC. The combat is slow although it was advertised as the return of fast paced shooter in vein of UT and Quake, there is no jump button which constricts movement and skill, most cool moves are done with a simple push of a button - almost no skill. He doesn't think the game will work on PC especially so when people still play Quake 3 and do some amazing feats of agility.
It was the right decision for them not to release Bulletstorm demo on PC because people won't know how bad the game is until they buy it.

I played the Bulletstorm demo on the PS3 and it isn't slow at all. In fact, with the slide key, it's easily as fast as any PC shooter, including Q3A. Very different gameplay though and I will agree that it is VERY simple to play. Slide in/kick the enemy, go into slow mo, line up shots, done. It is very much a console-centric game (press x to jump over object, etc..) but it is quite fun and i'll deffo give it a try on the PC. It doesn't take itself too seriously either.

ZakKa89
9th Feb 2011, 15:20
a friend of mine hated the bulletstorm demo as well. Wasn't surprised, doesn't look a whole lot better than painkiller if you ask me. The 'lasso' is basically the same weapon as you had in painkiller only with a different design. I will not buy bulletstorm now. Firstly, because there is no demo on PC so I can check it out and second because I did not like Painkiller.

Dead-Eye
9th Feb 2011, 15:21
Dead-Eye, it's not best for us, or almost any other dev/publisher to release a demo riddled with bugs. Savvy, hardcore, and understanding consumers like yourselves may be okay with a product like this, but everyone else...maybe not so much. The end result can be...disastrous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iddp4fGBFV8&feature=fvwrel

Oh man, that was funny. I guess I'm the only one here who finds moments like this worth more then playing the demo by itself. To bad everyone can't have my opinion on demos. :flowers:


Unreal is a bit of a separate story. Fact that the hard-coded core engine is fixed across multiple games is what allows resources to be moved freely. It's a good way to write plug-and play engine, sure, but it doesn't make it a universally good way to write any engine.


Yeah, I'm probably giving EM too hard of a time here. Unreal has been developing for decades, and is used by hundreds of AAA titles. Even then a new version of the core engine is released every month, which I don't imagine porting to is super easy.



The most recent example where demo backfired would be Aliens vs Predator (3). The trailers looked awesome and people were willing to buy the game. Then Rebellion & Sega released the demo and people realised how horrible job Rebellion did. Although they tried to cover it up by stating that demo is a work in progress (I'm not excluding that it was) but the final product wasn't any better.
But if the game was good, wouldn't that have effected this example differently? Personally, I buy games based on reviews, not on the guilty of the Demo. I mean, AVP was just a bad game, so it makes sense the Demo wouldn't help.

Also, I think there is a diffrence between bad, and bug ridden. Vampire: Bloodlines was a great game that was sadly super bug ridden.

Coyotegrey
9th Feb 2011, 15:22
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

Dead-Eye
9th Feb 2011, 15:24
^^ Some screens with Anti-Aliasing on max.

Coyotegrey
9th Feb 2011, 15:34
^^ Some screens with Anti-aliasing on max.

Of course!

And as a reminder...I can't say WHEN or IF you'll get everything you request, I just want to have a list of requests to be able to send to our marketing man and say "HERE!"

puzl
9th Feb 2011, 15:39
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

RELEASE DATE :D :D :D

But seriously, i'd like all the above, as well as:

1) Confirmation that we can remap controls properly, including the ability to turn off Mouse Accel/smoothing
2) FOV adjustment, just in case it has console-centric 50/60 degree FOV. I play Q3A with a FOV of 105 in comparison, but anything above 90 is acceptable. The BF:BC2 initial PC FOV is an example of how NOT to do it. Seriously, that ***** felt like I was playing the whole game with the zoom key mashed down.
3) A comprehensive list of current PC-exclusive graphical/gameplay features, such as DX11, enhanced AI, etc...
4) Mod/SDK support? (even though we all know the answer to this in our hearts, sadly)

Thankoo.

AxiomaticBadger
9th Feb 2011, 15:49
Oh! Oh! Keymap!

Proof that the main menu is navagatable via the mouse!

7h30n
9th Feb 2011, 16:30
I played the Bulletstorm demo on the PS3 and it isn't slow at all. In fact, with the slide key, it's easily as fast as any PC shooter, including Q3A. Very different gameplay though and I will agree that it is VERY simple to play. Slide in/kick the enemy, go into slow mo, line up shots, done. It is very much a console-centric game (press x to jump over object, etc..) but it is quite fun and i'll deffo give it a try on the PC. It doesn't take itself too seriously either.

I can't give my personal opinion because I have no means to try the game. I was just relegating the opinion of a friend I know who tryes to give the most objective opinion (atleast that's what I think he will try to do since he writes reviews...)


But if the game was good, wouldn't that have effected this example differently? Personally, I buy games based on reviews, not on the guilty of the Demo. I mean, AVP was just a bad game, so it makes sense the Demo wouldn't help.

Also, I think there is a diffrence between bad, and bug ridden. Vampire: Bloodlines was a great game that was sadly super bug ridden.

I completely agree with you. Too bad the game wasn't any better because I loved the AvP series (one of my favourite games)

Edit: I forgot to mention, I also buy games if a friend recommends it to me, but still I have to try it at his place. Unfortunately, I've stopped taking reviews as a buyers guide (especially so after certain PC exclusive game has 80 and that other certain game 90 on metacritic). I definitely want to check everything before buying (watch trailer, gameplay vids, reading reviews and finally trying it/asking a friend about it) New PC games cost here atleast 70$ (console ones have a min of 100$) so I definitely need to spend my money very wisely.



I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

What I would really love to see is how the game breathes on PC. It would be nice if they showed us booting up the game, going through menus and loading the game. Then showing some gameplay and how interaction with menus, inventory and ingame objects feels and works on PC. Lately I've been playing (shooter) games on a gamepad although they should be easier on mouse + keyb because of badly implemented inputs.
And ofcourse, it would be nice if we could saw what is it that makes the PC version different and unique (better gfx, ai, whatever else has been said) from console versions

Oh, and the most important thing: Thanks for still participating on this forum! (and not having a nervous breakdown xD )

ZakKa89
9th Feb 2011, 17:04
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

Yes. And what would be absolutely perfect is this: A gameplay video (not trailer) where the specs of the machine are shown and where the game runs on highest settings.

Irate_Iguana
9th Feb 2011, 17:35
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

- Menus. To be more specific, evidence that menus are designed for use with a mouse and a keyboard and not just ported lazily. This includes HUD, inventory and the main menu.
- Options. Ways to remap keys, lower or raise graphics, adjust mouse sensitivity, adjust FoV, adjust AA and so on. The more options the merrier.
- How saving, loading and quitting the game works.
- Character control. How smooth Adam walks, talks and fights when someone is driving him via kb+mouse.

K^2
9th Feb 2011, 23:33
And again, the best way to cover ALL of these bases is to simply release the demo. :p

Pretentious Old Man.
9th Feb 2011, 23:46
Ironically, we PC old guard crowd are relatively easy to please. Just show us some keymapping, options menus, and AA dialled up and we'll be very happy. You could get your tea boy to record it in Fraps, no expensive cutting together or post-processing at all.

That torn bit of paper with the values of regen on it was definitely an awesome way to express info. Hoping we see a lot more of this low-tech, low-budget information communication as the weeks progress! ;)

To everyone here, if you think you're being starved of information, try being a fan of Stronghold 3. There's almost no info being released at all, and most of the fanbase are non-native English speakers who are barely literate in the language enough to converse. This forum ain't as bad as popular myth. ;)

BigBoss
9th Feb 2011, 23:49
We do. Often. So it helps to keep up with entertainment insiders so we can make sure some bad effects in the trailers will be polished when the movie comes out.

Oh really? Give several examples to prove that it's often.

Also, I think you are on borderline harassment now, keep it up!

Ashpolt
10th Feb 2011, 00:35
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

Just some proof that the PC version will actually be a PC game, not a port of a console game that happens to be running on PC. The UI is going to be a big part of that: there's a world of difference between a UI designed for a controller and one designed for keyboard and mouse, and it's very easy to tell the difference between the two. Obvious example: Morrowind's UI was obviously designed with K+M in mind, while Oblivion's is very controller-centric.

From what I understand, you guys have a subset of the team of x number of guys working specifically on the PC version, so hopefully we should be getting more than a simple port.

Unfortunately, the overall quality of a PC game can't really be judged without a demo. You can release all the screenshots and videos you like (and please do!) but at the end of the day, it's really something you've got to experience yourself, and not simply see in a video. Videos and screens are absolutely great, and definitely something I'd love to see more of, but a pre-release demo is an absolute necessity if I'm going to be convinced this is a worthwhile PC title and worth spending my money on.

uberajnn
10th Feb 2011, 00:53
RELEASE DATE :D :D :D

But seriously, i'd like all the above, as well as:

1) Confirmation that we can remap controls properly, including the ability to turn off Mouse Accel/smoothing
2) FOV adjustment, just in case it has console-centric 50/60 degree FOV. I play Q3A with a FOV of 105 in comparison, but anything above 90 is acceptable. The BF:BC2 initial PC FOV is an example of how NOT to do it. Seriously, that ***** felt like I was playing the whole game with the zoom key mashed down.

Have to echo this one. It seems every ****ty game that comes out these days has built-in mouse accel/smoothing, mouse delay and the likes. AFAIK the last games that did this stuff right was Call of Duty 1 and 2. CoD 4 onwards suffers from a limited Field of View (although adjustable). The feel of the game is drastically improved when the mouse is responsive, smooth and accurate. I know the types who are most aware of this are people who have played FPS games competitively, but I believe more casual types notice it too, even if they don't know exactly what's wrong. Also limited FoV ruins everything.

Another thing I would like to have confirmed is the option to change monitor refresh rates. And for the love of god, PLEASE no letterboxing for people with 4:3 aspect ratio monitors!

BigBoss
10th Feb 2011, 01:00
@Ashpolt, Are you telling me that if this game doesn't have a demo, you won't be buying it day one?

Ashpolt
10th Feb 2011, 01:19
@Ashpolt, Are you telling me that if this game doesn't have a demo, you won't be buying it day one?

Absolutely. It doesn't necessarily mean I won't buy it at all (though that may end up being the case) but I certainly won't be buying it day one unless I've experienced it myself somehow, either via a demo, hands-on event or....other means. And I'd really rather not have to do it via "other means."

I know a lot of people on here seem to assume purchasing this game is a foregone conclusion for everyone on here, but it's not - for me at least. I won't rush out and buy something simply because it has "Deus Ex" in the title - I bought Invisible War on launch day, and look how that turned out! - it's got to actually be a good game as well, and the only way I will know that is through playing it myself, because let's face it, games journalism is a joke nowadays. To bring up Invisible War again, PC Gamer gave that 90%+, and they're one of the better magazines.

singularity
10th Feb 2011, 01:48
Absolutely. It doesn't necessarily mean I won't buy it at all (though that may end up being the case) but I certainly won't be buying it day one unless I've experienced it myself somehow, either via a demo, hands-on event or....other means. And I'd really rather not have to do it via "other means."

I know a lot of people on here seem to assume purchasing this game is a foregone conclusion for everyone on here, but it's not - for me at least. I won't rush out and buy something simply because it has "Deus Ex" in the title - I bought Invisible War on launch day, and look how that turned out! - it's got to actually be a good game as well, and the only way I will know that is through playing it myself, because let's face it, games journalism is a joke nowadays. To bring up Invisible War again, PC Gamer gave that 90%+, and they're one of the better magazines.

I can relate to this in a lot of ways... at this moment in time, a game is a little expensive, considering it is a luxury purchase... and the PC version isn't even something I can share with a friend easily, like a console game. I'd like to test drive it before I put money on it. Might purchase on day one... might wait a week and talk to my buddy (who IS purchasing on day one). We'll see how it goes... depends on info that has yet to be released, really.

As for what I want... well... I'm with the crowd it seems. Give us high quality screen shots and videos of the game in action. I want to see the HUD and the menus for myself. It would also be nice to see a comparison of the game running on max settings and lower/ lowest settings and to see the game running on the consoles vs. the PC. Minimum specs and recomended specs, and key re-maping.

Or a demo and a release date. :)

Seriously though... hud, menus, and pics/ video of the game in action are gravy.

Firepith
10th Feb 2011, 02:26
Here's my angle on the whole demo thing.

I need a demo. Me. The fan. The customer. I am rabid with anticipation.

Square/Eidos would benefit from providing that demo. Me, and people like me will play it over and over, explore every tiny detail of it, discuss it online, tell our friends and families, write about it, give feedback on it prior to release... you get the picture.

And I, for one, would be plenty patient for whatever release date they landed on.

There just has to be a demo though. The anticipation at this point is only going to drive up expectations.

Pinky_Powers
10th Feb 2011, 03:17
I know everyone wants a PC demo, but what kind of info do you want specifically of the PC version?

Lemme take a guess...

High res screenshots with and without the HUD
Video footage
Minimum and recommended specs

And...?

Video footage is paramount. But not a gameplay trailer. Whenever you people cut together a trailer, you lose all sense of how the game actually plays. You lose the pacing. You lose the strategic thinking that goes into how the player negotiates challenges. You lose almost all understanding of how the AI behaves.

Quick cut, quick cut, quick cut... it's bulls**t. You can still cut the thing to avoid spoilers, but cut it in long segments of continual gameplay.

The Hunting the BigDaddy video Irrational released for the first Bioshock was brilliant. In fact, all the footage they released was great. You really got a good sense of how the thing handled.

FrankCSIS
10th Feb 2011, 03:18
@Ashpolt, Are you telling me that if this game doesn't have a demo, you won't be buying it day one?

He won't be the only one.

I may be inexperienced in the mysterious ways of inner-studio politics which are aparently impossible to understand to the non-initiate (seriously what is this, some sort of leftovers from college fraternities?), but I still understand how some of us spend our money.

SO easy to please we are, and yet so prone to anger. A strange beast it is, this pc player.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 09:36
I have confidence in EM and DX:HR... there is no way I'm not firing up this game on the first day of release.
No way can I wait! I'm too curious, too impatient, too in-love with the story already. I'm totally hooked, and I don't mind admitting it. :D

pha
10th Feb 2011, 09:53
Frankly Kyle, if the game used UE3 (as most people hoped until 2008) I would be less hesitant, because most UE3 games can be tweaked if they have problems like spastic mouse behavior or other console-oriented controls and design e.g. low FOV intended for TV's instead of monitors, crouch or zoom bound to toggle, etc. I'm not saying these should be left to the player of course, but it's better than nothing.

I'm not familiar with this "modified" Crystal engine of yours, but releasing a PC demo will remove our doubts about mouse behavior and other stuff. If there's a major problem which somehow slipped out of your testers (like the asinine hacking minigame in Alpha Protocol which was a ***** to play without a controller, or if one button is used for multiple functions because it was designed for a controller and it causes accidental unintended actions, like the sprint/use/cover key in ME2) we can post our feedback here and who knows, maybe EM will tune it before release.

The interface is also very important.


@Ashpolt, Are you telling me that if this game doesn't have a demo, you won't be buying it day one?

He's Ashpolt not Sheepolt. And he won't be alone.

jtr7
10th Feb 2011, 10:04
I will not buy any game on Day 1 without my questions answered, and I take advantage of all who do buy and play on Day 1, Week 1, Month 1, to see all the player reviews, and form the bell curve of opinions, who will answer the questions marketing never answered beforehand.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 10:44
He's Ashpolt not Sheepolt. And he won't be alone.

^
:scratch:

If he isn't alone, then that means he's part of a group... or flock. ;)
Baa-aaaaa, bleet, baa. :D



...and I take advantage of all who do buy and play on Day 1, Week 1, Month 1, to see all the player reviews, and form the bell curve of opinions...

That's a good idea for those who remain unsure. :thumb:

pha
10th Feb 2011, 11:02
Weak. :)

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 11:05
We all flock together. :D

Red
10th Feb 2011, 12:38
I have it preordered (29GBP for a collector's edition? Why not?). But that's easily overridden by a click on a button called "cancel my preorder". Honestly, I'm also almost inclined to do so. Might as well just go for the "flow of the bits" version. Will try to buy the soundtrack though if that's the case.

Demo will sure be a major key in the development of things - as in I'm cancelling it if there is none.

uberajnn
10th Feb 2011, 12:59
Hey 29 GBP? Where's that from?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 13:10
^
Yeah, I think Red is quoting the original pre-order price. It was a bargain not to be missed.
If he chooses to cancel his earlier pre-order, he will pay a higher price if he chooses to order again.
Afaik....

Tool of Isis
10th Feb 2011, 13:26
So cancel it red, because there is none.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 13:41
I'm open to being made a paid, biased employee though. Seriously. I'll take the money. :whistle:

I'll be happy with a DX crate-full of signed goodies from EM. :cool:

Red
10th Feb 2011, 13:44
So cancel it red, because there is none.

There's no release date either.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 13:48
So cancel it red, because there is none.
To be fair, and not to confuse any new members, a demo is neither confirmed or denied.

Personally, I'd rather they used the time and money to make any necessary improvements to the game.

uberajnn
10th Feb 2011, 14:22
It's really difficult to properly demo a game like Deus Ex. I didn't like the liberty island mission in the least when I first played it. The game became more and more interesting to me over the course of several missions, slowly getting increasingly engrossed by the mechanics and the universe. If I were to play just the first mission I would've dismissed the game offhand.

For me gameplay trailers (PC footage) and trustworthy reviews will be sufficient.

Red
10th Feb 2011, 14:41
Personally, I'd rather they used the time and money to make any necessary improvements to the game.

Which is an infinite loophole. Time extension - more content - more balance - more bugs - more polish - time extension - more content - more balance - more bugs -...

You see how it goes? There's only so many bugs you can fix before new ones surface and you don't get to ever publish the game. Each improvement comes with exponentially larger cost. Because unfixed bugs don't fix themselves and the undiscovered bugs are a seed of evil waiting to happen. You just have to cut the loop somewhere.

This project is overdue even with the stretched original projected 24 months of development.

(Mandatory Gaem needs moar polish! )

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 16:32
^
Sure, I am aware of the logistics but it doesn't really change my viewpoint, ie. I don't care if there is a demo or not. :p

Red
10th Feb 2011, 17:31
I don't mind that. It's just that some people here say all kinds of thing except the thing they want to say. Had you clarified that your viewpoint you don't care if the demo will come or not might just save the bile of pointing out how pointless is the "I want them to take infinite time to fix bugs(polish the game" statements are. And you are not the only one doing that, don't mistake this as an attack on you particularly.

Happy
10th Feb 2011, 17:35
^ "A forgotten virtue like honesty is worth at least twenty credits."

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 17:39
Had you clarified that your viewpoint you don't care if the demo will come or not might just save the bile of pointing out how pointless is the "I want them to take infinite time to fix bugs(polish the game" statements are. And you are not the only one doing that, don't mistake this as an attack on you particularly.

:scratch:

My original statement about not caring whether there is a demo can be read on page 2 of this thread.

Red
10th Feb 2011, 17:45
Right.


Personally, I'd rather they used the time and money to make any necessary improvements to the game.

And as I said it's not just about you.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
10th Feb 2011, 17:49
Right.
And as I said it's not just about you.

Yeah, if they have a choice whether to spend time/money on tweaking the game, or making us a demo... then I choose they tweak the game. :)

Happy
10th Feb 2011, 18:00
^ 1,000X agree

Dead-Eye
10th Feb 2011, 18:13
The Hunting the BigDaddy video Irrational released for the first Bioshock was brilliant. In fact, all the footage they released was great. You really got a good sense of how the thing handled.

Indeed, that footage alone made Bioshock a day one purchase for me.

motsm
10th Feb 2011, 20:27
Indeed, that footage alone made Bioshock a day one purchase for me.Yeah, but Bioshock ended up having mouse acceleration that couldn't be turned off by any means. No video is going to show that, and for me, it ruined the entire game. Not that I was overly impressed with it anyway, but the mouse acceleration turned the entire experience into me fighting with the controls, rather than the enemies.

I can't buy games anymore without a demo, developers are just too stupid or too lazy for me to trust, and I mean that in the most direct and insulting way I possibly can.

BigBoss
10th Feb 2011, 20:28
I don't mind that. It's just that some people here say all kinds of thing except the thing they want to say. Had you clarified that your viewpoint you don't care if the demo will come or not might just save the bile of pointing out how pointless is the "I want them to take infinite time to fix bugs(polish the game" statements are. And you are not the only one doing that, don't mistake this as an attack on you particularly.

Quite sensitive, you are....

Pretentious Old Man.
10th Feb 2011, 20:36
Quite sensitive, you are....

Do, or do not, there is no try.

Dead-Eye
10th Feb 2011, 20:53
Yeah, but Bioshock ended up having mouse acceleration that couldn't be turned off by any means. No video is going to show that, and for me, it ruined the entire game. Not that I was overly impressed with it anyway, but the mouse acceleration turned the entire experience into me fighting with the controls, rather than the enemies.


I must be one of the lucky ones then, because I never notices mouse acceleration in that game. In fact, I never noticed mouse acceleration in any of the games you people are talking about. I only noticed it recently in IL-2, and even then that was only on the menu.

I think mouse acceleration is an Illuminati conspiracy. It only works if you believe in it.

motsm
10th Feb 2011, 21:16
I must be one of the lucky ones then, because I never notices mouse acceleration in that game. In fact, I never noticed mouse acceleration in any of the games you people are talking about. I only noticed it recently in IL-2, and even then that was only on the menu.

I think mouse acceleration is an Illuminati conspiracy. It only works if you believe in it.No conspiracy, as they fixed it in the last Bioshock patch, but it was months after most of the community had either beaten the game apprehensively, or given up on it.

I imagine some people just aren't as sensitive to it.

Pinky_Powers
10th Feb 2011, 22:58
No conspiracy, as they fixed it in the last Bioshock patch, but it was months after most of the community had either beaten the game apprehensively, or given up on it.

I imagine some people just aren't as sensitive to it.

lol. I guess I'm one of those people. I never noticed any issue with the mouse in-game. I remember it being sluggish in menus, but not in-game.

I'll take your word for it, though. I know how annoying things like that can be when you're aware of them. I can't stand cheap CRT monitors that only run at 30hz. Gives me a headache. But some folk don't notice a thing.

motsm
11th Feb 2011, 00:08
lol. I guess I'm one of those people. I never noticed any issue with the mouse in-game. I remember it being sluggish in menus, but not in-game.

I'll take your word for it, though. I know how annoying things like that can be when you're aware of them. I can't stand cheap CRT monitors that only run at 30hz. Gives me a headache. But some folk don't notice a thing.I still don't understand how people don't get the insta death from low refresh CRT's. I get a headache too, pretty much anything 60hz or under, within seconds really.

DirtSpider
11th Feb 2011, 03:55
I agree with what a lot of people are saying about the distribution and time to make a demo but don't they already have one? They have been showing off this game at E3 and to journalists over the past couple years. Was it literally just the first couple hours or what?

jtr7
11th Feb 2011, 04:20
As has been explained, that demo is not reflective of the game in its current state, and wasn't even supposed to be shown publicly, but it was leaked. That demo is over half-a-year bhind in development, and is missing elements we've been asking to see ever since.

Look through the threads for Coyotegrey's posts. He's employed at EM and is the Community Manager. Here's one post from this very thread:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1564796&postcount=56

Pinky_Powers
11th Feb 2011, 05:53
I still don't understand how people don't get the insta death from low refresh CRT's. I get a headache too, pretty much anything 60hz or under, within seconds really.

Oh, maybe it was 60hz I'm thinking of. It's been a long, long time since I've had to deal with a CRT of any kind, let alone a s**ty one. My last monitor was a refurbished 19' Trinitron, and I had her running at 120hz.

But for the last few years I've enjoyed a high quality Samsung 22' LCD. It was the first LCD I saw that looked like it might be even better than my old Trinitron... and it is indeed a lot better. Over the last few years LCD tech has gotten amazing.

MaxxQ1
11th Feb 2011, 05:59
Oh, maybe it was 60hz I'm thinking of. It's been a long, long time since I've had to deal with a CRT of any kind, let alone a s**ty one. My last monitor was a refurbished 19' Trinitron, and I had her running at 120hz.

But for the last few years I've enjoyed a high quality Samsung 22' LCD. It was the first LCD I saw that looked like it might be even better than my old Trinitron... and it is indeed a lot better. Over the last few years LCD tech has gotten amazing.

19 *feet?* Damn! That's a hella big monitor.

:rasp:

I think you meant to type 19".

Pinky_Powers
11th Feb 2011, 06:22
What can I say? It was a big monitor. ;)

MaxxQ1
11th Feb 2011, 07:28
What can I say? It was a big monitor. ;)

Gotcha! :thumb:

IOS
12th Mar 2011, 20:15
http://shogungamer.com/news/deus-ex-human-revolution-live-blog-pax-east-2011

No release date for it confirmed yet

Topic is just for speculation for the demo. What section(s) will they show off? Will it be somewhere we've seen or somewhere completely new? Speculate away!

EDIT: Turns out its a false alarm. Sorry folks.

ArcR
12th Mar 2011, 20:19
http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk/smile/party/party0003.gif (http://www.dogproductshop.co.uk)

ZakKa89
12th Mar 2011, 20:27
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.

Sorry for repeating it it´s just that I love the news so much that I want to read it over and over.

Irate_Iguana
12th Mar 2011, 20:29
[url]What section(s) will they show off?

Probably the mission after Adam gets his augs installed or the section they just demoed on PAX. Depends a bit what that section entails.

Tecman
12th Mar 2011, 20:29
Very, very good news. :)

EricaLeeV
12th Mar 2011, 20:30
The no date announced thing though...

*sigh*

Well I'm glad they aren't short-cutting PC gamers like a lot of companies tend to do with demos.

ArcR
12th Mar 2011, 20:32
What do you mean "short-cutting"?

EricaLeeV
12th Mar 2011, 20:36
I guess I mean that I am glad EM/Square Enix is including a demo for PC gamers. I know EA in particular has had times where they give demos for only the console platforms despite the fact that the full game will be released on PC as well.

sonicsidewinder
12th Mar 2011, 20:46
Well would you look at that.

Hahaha, Chuffed.

Igoe
12th Mar 2011, 20:50
WOW!!!!

I was not expecting that!!

GREAT MOVE EM!

(Now, I was going to buy the game demo or not, so this changes little, but it's still a little shocking we actually get a PC demo!)

That being said, I'm assuming it's going to be a small bit of the hub in Detroit, that lets us wander between maybe Adam's apt and the streets/sewers during a middle, unnamed portion of the storyline to keep us in the dark, but still allow us to wander and citycrawl and converse with people.

vallux
12th Mar 2011, 20:50
I guess I mean having no demo for PC gamers even though the game is going to get released in that particular platform. I know EA tends to do that sometimes; like with Dead Space 2.

Uhh, Steam? Like it says there.

Or did you mean "aren't shortcutting"

EricaLeeV
12th Mar 2011, 20:53
Uhh, Steam? Like it says there.

That was a post to clarify something I said earlier. I which I stated that I was glad they had a PC demo coming

And yes that was a typo on my part.

St. Mellow
12th Mar 2011, 20:59
http://ijustwanttofitin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/hory-shet.jpg


I guess I mean having no demo for PC gamers

Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL.

U blind?

EDIT: Ninja'd. By ten minutes... :p

EricaLeeV
12th Mar 2011, 21:03
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL.

U blind?

EDIT: Ninja'd. By ten minutes... :p

:/ Yep.

VectorM
12th Mar 2011, 21:06
I guess I mean having no demo for PC gamers even though the game is going to get released in that particular platform. I know EA tends to do that sometimes; like with Dead Space 2.

But...it doesn't say that at all.

God Damn it, ninja post invasion.

St. Mellow
12th Mar 2011, 21:07
:/ Yep.

Sorry! I was just reading other threads and didn't reload before posting. The "HORY SHET!" still stands though. :D Awesome news!

vallux
12th Mar 2011, 21:11
That was a post to clarify something I said earlier. I which I stated that I was glad they had a PC demo coming

And yes that was a typo on my part.

Ahh...got it. Sorry for being the Grammar Police, and for some possible douchery.

II J0SePh X II
12th Mar 2011, 21:14
Great news!

EricaLeeV
12th Mar 2011, 21:14
Sorry! I was just reading other threads and didn't reload before posting. The "HORY SHET!" still stands though. :D Awesome news!


Ahh...got it. Sorry for being the Grammar Police, and for some possible douchery.

It's fine, just a minor misunderstanding. :)

MrFoxter
12th Mar 2011, 21:23
Nice. I hope it will be playable on my laptop. In the worst case, I might borrow more powerful one from a friend for a week ;)

Dr_Bob
12th Mar 2011, 21:24
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.
Demo will be released on Steam, PSN, and XBL. No date announced.

Sorry for repeating it it´s just that I love the news so much that I want to read it over and over.

Sorry for quoting you, it's just that I love the news so much that I want to read it over and over.

Human
12th Mar 2011, 21:43
Demo!

Seems like they are doing the right thing. Now NO ONE will have an excuse for pirating the game. Devs, give yourselves a pat on the back - well done! Now all you have to do is finish the game lol!

Plus, it will give the faithful players and preorderers some sweetness of the game to counter the bitterness of the August delay.

Pretentious Old Man.
12th Mar 2011, 21:46
This sums up my current mood.

qF4RCOcz9ow

ZakKa89
12th Mar 2011, 21:47
Hope it's a lengthy demo. It's hard to understand the greatness of Deus Ex gameplay in just 1 short level.

By the way, remember back in the days, when you could get a whole chapter (1/3 of a game) for free? Shareware, hehe.

AlexOfSpades
12th Mar 2011, 21:49
I... uh... you... always find a way to... surprise me, eh Pretentious Old Man...!

Anyways, nice news!

I'll be the first one to play the Demo, i can bet.

FrankCSIS
12th Mar 2011, 22:00
At last a triumph for the Demo Brotherhood

Blackbird SR-71C
12th Mar 2011, 22:01
http://shogungamer.com/news/deus-ex-human-revolution-live-blog-pax-east-2011

No release date for it confirmed yet

Topic is just for speculation for the demo. What section(s) will they show off? Will it be somewhere we've seen or somewhere completely new? Speculate away!

Meh. First the game gets pushed back to August, then a demo is anounced without a date. Don't get me wrong, I would totally freak out now like you guys, but it's probably comming out no earlier then ~2 weeks before release so the more you get hyped up now the longer the wait will be.

wowlace
12th Mar 2011, 22:29
Meh. First the game gets pushed back to August, then a demo is anounced without a date. Don't get me wrong, I would totally freak out now like you guys, but it's probably comming out no earlier then ~2 weeks before release so the more you get hyped up now the longer the wait will be.

This, and they didn't even release a new gameplay vid. :scratch:

Rainbow6Team
12th Mar 2011, 22:34
Release date for the demo:One month before August.

H.D.Case
12th Mar 2011, 22:44
That is wonderful news! Thanks EM. I can even forgive you the preorder bonuses faux pas now :p I am happy, because I will be able to check if I can actually run the game. The bad thing is that it will be on steam - this abomination takes up the resources that I will probably need to run the game itself.
One month, if it is really true, is good too. There will be time to buy new hardware, if needed :D

Thumbs up EM, you definitely earned it! :wave:

Dead-Eye
12th Mar 2011, 22:58
Good news, bad news, good news, bad news... that's this games development cycle.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed nothing bad happens... we already had massive tidal waves in japan the other day, don't need more bad news now.

pha
12th Mar 2011, 23:12
Good news.

Blackbird SR-71C
12th Mar 2011, 23:29
That is wonderful news! Thanks EM. I can even forgive you the preorder bonuses faux pas now :p I am happy, because I will be able to check if I can actually run the game. The bad thing is that it will be on steam - this abomination takes up the resources that I will probably need to run the game itself.
One month, if it is really true, is good too. There will be time to buy new hardware, if needed :D

Thumbs up EM, you definitely earned it! :wave:

I can't tell wether you're really just joking there or not. Afaik the resources steam takes up are minimal at worst, both from personal experience and others. If steam impacts your computers performance at a higher level then you should be lucky to run Deus Ex (1) on high settings.

Irate_Iguana
12th Mar 2011, 23:54
Please don't turn this thread into yet another Steam discussion.

Senka
13th Mar 2011, 00:04
Well that's the first good thing to happen to me in the last few days.

Ashpolt
13th Mar 2011, 00:23
Bad news guys: Kyle just said via Twitter that the demo report is false, they haven't confirmed a demo.

Crap.

sonicsidewinder
13th Mar 2011, 00:40
And it's all gone quiet over there! :rasp:

Ahh well. Back to square one, and in all honesty, it's not that bad a square.

We'll manage.

ZakKa89
13th Mar 2011, 00:49
F you shogungamer. The liveblog was terrible and it even contained false information. Just great.

Pretentious Old Man.
13th Mar 2011, 01:08
9-gSJW3sHXE

pha
13th Mar 2011, 01:13
Ash that's a bummer.

But maybe they'll release a demo after all.

Senka
13th Mar 2011, 01:20
Well that's the first good thing to happen to me in the last few days.

.....or not

ArcR
13th Mar 2011, 01:20
Damn POM.... steel on target with that clip. First 40 seconds were like having my mind read.

Is Kyle tweeting disinfo or is Quinn Sullivan a liar.

H.D.Case
13th Mar 2011, 01:23
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (http://nooooooooooooooo.com/)

Tecman
13th Mar 2011, 01:25
RE: ArcR, from Something Awful:



Didn't Eidos supposedly announce the demo at PAX?



Not at all. I was at the panel and they never mentioned anything about it. Also, the combat rifle was, I think, the art director's favorite gun.

MrFoxter
13th Mar 2011, 01:30
Reading news about DX:HR is like watching a soap opera. My daily amount of emotions has been exceeded.

Edit: sorry for that live blog, the guy was apparently drunk or not there at all...

Senka
13th Mar 2011, 01:44
Reading news about DX:HR is like watching a soap opera. My daily amount of emotions has been exceeded.

new sig quote <3

daklog
13th Mar 2011, 01:45
BLEH! OP should change thread title to reflect these developments. Not being able to touch this game for another 6 months is depressing!

ArcR
13th Mar 2011, 01:50
Should have stayed frosty. Time to regroup. Thanks for the update gents.

TrickyVein
13th Mar 2011, 02:18
This makes me sad.

motsm
13th Mar 2011, 08:34
All I want to do is download this demo and do everything in my power to mod the bastard.

sackyhack
13th Mar 2011, 15:16
I hope there's a demo, especially a PC one. I know the majority of piracy happens because people simply want free stuff, but there's a decent chunk of people who pirate because there's no demo and they want to try the game 1st or they're not sure if their system can run it. Just a simple demo could help secure thousands of sales. I mean if the game sucks, then yeah a demo could backfire, but from what I've seen of DXHR that's highly unlikely.

Dr_Bob
13th Mar 2011, 15:20
Why would that ShogunGamer guy lie about something like this?

What a shame.

MrFoxter
13th Mar 2011, 15:27
Why would that ShogunGamer guy lie about something like this?

What a shame.

Dunno. Maybe it was not on purpose. He was typing a lot and he possibly couldn't pay full attention to the stage.

JCpies
13th Mar 2011, 17:56
That sucks, at least there's a chance they may release a demo after the game is released. It'd seem like something they'd do.

At this rate I probably will only buy the soundtrack on release and wait until the game gets cheaper.

MrFoxter
13th Mar 2011, 18:00
But hey, they neither confirmed nor denied the demo.

Donvermicelli
13th Mar 2011, 18:23
But hey, they neither confirmed nor denied the demo.

they denied the confirmation though.

MrFoxter
13th Mar 2011, 19:33
they denied the confirmation though.

So the situation is the same as before.

Pinky_Powers
13th Mar 2011, 22:03
This sums up my current mood.

qF4RCOcz9ow

I was mulling over my own sentiments as to establish them properly in a post, here in this thread. But this fine document you've shared with us is the best representation of my inner rumblings at this unexpected news. And so I quote it for motherf**king truth!

-~::Edit::~-
Goddamn it! I just read through page two, and now there's no announcement on a demo at all.
:mad2:

ZakKa89
13th Mar 2011, 22:14
awww Pinky you just read this? I feel your pain mate :'(

pi r squared
13th Mar 2011, 22:21
-~::Edit::~-
Goddamn it! I just read through page two, and now there's no announcement on a demo at all.
:mad2:
Yeah, we really need to get the title of this thread changed until/unless we get formal confirmation, because as it stands it's just one giant cocktease...

Lady_Of_The_Vine
13th Mar 2011, 22:32
Yeah, we really need to get the title of this thread changed until/unless we get formal confirmation, because as it stands it's just one giant cocktease...

Merged into existing general demo discussion thread.

ShadowXOR
13th Mar 2011, 23:44
Not sure how my thread became the official demo discussion thread but I like it. :D

MrFoxter
13th Mar 2011, 23:56
Not sure how my thread became the official demo discussion thread but I like it. :D

In fact it was consumed by official demo discussion thread. It's no shame to be a food for offcial threads ;)

jd10013
14th Mar 2011, 02:11
I hope there's a demo, especially a PC one. I know the majority of piracy happens because people simply want free stuff, but there's a decent chunk of people who pirate because there's no demo and they want to try the game 1st or they're not sure if their system can run it. Just a simple demo could help secure thousands of sales. I mean if the game sucks, then yeah a demo could backfire, but from what I've seen of DXHR that's highly unlikely.


+1. I just want to make sure the damn thing will run on my computer. I can live with spending $50 and not thinking it was the best game I ever played, or not even thinking its great. but $50 for something I can't even play would piss me off enough that I won't make the purchase if I'm not sure.

Vasarto
14th Mar 2011, 02:32
I have sent Eidos a message to their main people and begged them for a Demo for Xbox Live.

VectorM
14th Mar 2011, 02:50
I have sent Eidos a message to their main people and begged them for a Demo for Xbox Live.

Did you also ask them why stores refused to sell their game on March 8?

ArcR
15th Mar 2011, 03:09
Did you also ask them why stores refused to sell their game on March 8?

:lol: ...that was good.

Rainbow6Team
15th Mar 2011, 03:25
So they can release and sell more of their comics and merchandise.

vallux
15th Mar 2011, 06:45
There is something trollish about RainbowSixTeam's posts. Just cant put my finger on it.

Also. I would love a demo. Too bad it might not come in a while or at all.

jcd3nt0n
16th Mar 2011, 21:57
It's real!! :group_hug:

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3498/omgwtflol.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/omgwtflol.jpg/)

No sorry, just kidding. :naughty:

But please make it real soon!

MrFoxter
16th Mar 2011, 22:11
It's real!! :group_hug:

No sorry, just kidding. :naughty:

But please make it real soon!

You bastard. I had nearly a hearth attack! :lol:

I'd just agree with my previous post once again:

Reading news about DX:HR is like watching a soap opera. My daily amount of emotions has been exceeded.

AlexOfSpades
16th Mar 2011, 22:45
That was mean, D3nt0n.

Pretentious Old Man.
16th Mar 2011, 23:05
Jesus Christ, d3nton.

Ashpolt
17th Mar 2011, 00:22
Get out of here, d3nt0n!

Vladimyre
17th Mar 2011, 01:39
How about instead of either polish or demo we get mod tool development instead ;)

Gotta stir the pot here ;)

V

jtr7
17th Mar 2011, 01:59
Another "Coming Soon" button in disguise.

Rainhands
17th Mar 2011, 03:59
The current trend is not to a release a demo to the public. At least not to the PC crowd. As a PC gamer I can't say that I blame them. Just look at Crysis 2, it got slated on a bunch of forums before the game was even released. I think gamers handled it in a childish manner.

Some developers do not release a demo as the game is not brilliant and they do not want to be flamed along with a flurry of cancelled pre-orders. Homefront comes to mind.

I don't even care if Human Revolution is a straight console port. As long as they optimise it well there should not be a problem.

TrickyVein
17th Mar 2011, 04:17
Some developers do not release a demo as the game is not brilliant and they do not want to be flamed along with a flurry of cancelled pre-orders. Homefront comes to mind.

That is absolutley ridiculous.

I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you.

More of a reflection of the times we live in.

VectorM
17th Mar 2011, 05:00
That is absolutley ridiculous.

I'm not saying you're wrong, mind you.

More of a reflection of the times we live in.

And yet Crysis got slammed after they released the demo. And Homefront looked like a decent game when it didn't have a demo :rolleyes:

Pinky_Powers
17th Mar 2011, 09:22
When your game is really good, a demo is worth the developers time and money as it will bring in more sales. But if your game is not good, it will lose you major sales, while still costing you a lot of time and money to make.

Educated buyers are a terrible, really awful thing when you're trying to sell them s**t. :)

That said, we have months yet before we have any right to expect a demo for Human Revolution... months before its absence holds any meaning for the quality of the game.

We all need to calm down and practice patience, and vigorous self-gratification.

ZakKa89
17th Mar 2011, 09:33
And Homefront looked like a decent game when it didn't have a demo :rolleyes:

No it didn't. :p

Pinky_Powers
17th Mar 2011, 09:40
No it didn't. :p

Well okay. It "sounded" like a decent game, with all their talk of measured, dramatic storytelling and heavy Half-Life influence. ;)

vengeancepuppy
17th Mar 2011, 10:20
The current trend is not to a release a demo to the public. At least not to the PC crowd. As a PC gamer I can't say that I blame them. Just look at Crysis 2, it got slated on a bunch of forums before the game was even released. I think gamers handled it in a childish manner.

Have you tried playing it at all? I found it really fun, excellent demo...BUT

It can't deal with 2 or more machines being on the same NAT.
It checks the first network controller it finds and if that's not connected to the internet it doesn't look for more.

And those are after the second patch There are a ton of other mistakes that I'm willing to look over, since they aren't obvious but coding something so that those two happen... I think that people can tolerate basic errors but when you put out something that is quite this bad you should expect hate.

MrFoxter
17th Mar 2011, 19:02
EM Blog (translation from FR) (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gameblog.fr%2Fblogs%2Feidosmontreal%2Fp_30212_demo-ou-pas-demo)


Demo or no demo?!
March 17, 2011 @ 18h35 - 17 Mars 2011 @ 18h35

I receive many requests from players who want a demo of the game in some cases, these players have already preordered the game (thank you to them).

First, you should know that it's all a challenge to produce a demo and even more for a game like Deus Ex are a few things that a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution should support:
o Introduce the world to the player but does not reveal too much history
o Educate the player controls
o Demonstrate experience of game (Fighting, Infiltration, Social Interactions and Hacking)
o Demonstrate the choices and consequences
o Demonstrate Multi Solutions
o Demonstrate the multi path
o Give you the urge to buy the game!

So if I take all these parameters into account, we are talking about a demo for about 45 minutes to 1 hour ... This is much longer than the usual 15 minutes.

So I ask the following questions:
• Do you want a demo of the game and why (are you skeptical about the quality of play, cautious to invest 70 Euros or just impatient)?
• I have given you my vision of what would be a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. But you, what do you expect from a game demo?

David Anfossi - PRODUCER
http://twitter.com/DavidAnfossi

I don't speak French, so feel free to correct the translation, you French speakers ;)

ZakKa89
17th Mar 2011, 19:14
Tell him his view of what a demo should look like is absolutely PERFECT

MaxxQ1
17th Mar 2011, 19:31
Originally Posted by David Anfossi
Demo or no demo?!
March 17, 2011 @ 18h35 - 17 Mars 2011 @ 18h35

I receive many requests from players who want a demo of the game in some cases, these players have already preordered the game (thank you to them).

First, you should know that it's all a challenge to produce a demo and even more for a game like Deus Ex are a few things that a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution should support:
o Introduce the world to the player but does not reveal too much history
o Educate the player controls
o Demonstrate experience of game (Fighting, Infiltration, Social Interactions and Hacking)
o Demonstrate the choices and consequences
o Demonstrate Multi Solutions
o Demonstrate the multi path
o Give you the urge to buy the game!

So if I take all these parameters into account, we are talking about a demo for about 45 minutes to 1 hour ... This is much longer than the usual 15 minutes.

So I ask the following questions:
• Do you want a demo of the game and why (are you skeptical about the quality of play, cautious to invest 70 Euros or just impatient)?
• I have given you my vision of what would be a demo of Deus Ex: Human Revolution. But you, what do you expect from a game demo?

David Anfossi - PRODUCER
http://twitter.com/DavidAnfossi


I don't speak French, so feel free to correct the translation, you French speakers ;)

Sounds to me like he's genuinely interested in what we would like to see. Whether we get a demo from this or not is debatable, however.

I don't do twitter, so I guess I can't answer his questions directly, but on the off-chance he peeks in here, I answer here.

First off, where does it say that a demo *has* to be about 15 minutes long? I've played plenty of games where the demo was anywhere from 1-3 hours long, or even more. The original DX had the entire beginning Liberty Island/UNATCO HQ levels up until you get on the boat, as well as the tutorial. That could be as much as 2-3 hours right there (it was for me when I first played it). Homeworld's demo included the tutorial and first two or three levels/maps, which again was about 2 hours or so of playtime. Freespace, Pharoah, Stronghold 1 and 2, all did the same thing, and all were no less than an hour of playtime.

All of these games I mentioned were bought by me based on my playing of the demos for each of them. For a more recent example, I also bought DA2 based on my experience with the demo, which was about an hour or so.

Conversely, the demo for DX Invisible War was enough to show the glaring flaws of the game, and realistically, I shouldn't have bought the full game after playing the demo. Still, I guess I had hopes that the final full version could only improve. I was wrong.

I think that a DX:HR demo should just simply include the pre-augged Adam level, the post-augged level, and maybe part of the following level/map. This is going to be the part of the game where people decide how they're going to play in the full game anyway, so that should be enough for everyone to get a feel for the game and its mechanics. I mean, you've got the social combat with the hostage-taker, the stealth play to *get* to the guy, there's been mention of combat in this area, as well as hacking.

Seems to me that everything is included, and unless the writing is worse than we think (doubtful as Mary and James - with the help of Pacotti - seem to have things well in hand) and you reveal the entire plot in the first two levels, you'll still be able to introduce the player to the world without giving everything away.

As for my reasons for a demo, they're mainly that I want to decide if the game is worth it. I hope it is. I *WANT* it to be, but I'm still doubtful of some of the design decisions that were made. I *will* say that I've warmed considerably towards the game based on the few snippets of info we've gotten over the past month or so, but it just hasn't been enough to remove, even slightly, that small kernel of doubt in the back of my mind.

Final answer: A demo could sell me immediately on the game. Or, it could make me wait for the price to come down. Either way, as long as it's not a travesty of game development (such as a certain Romero game), you'll get a sale. A demo could go a long way towards making it a day-one purchase, rather than year-one.

Ashpolt
17th Mar 2011, 22:05
I think Anfossi's outline of the demo sounds pretty much spot on. As MaxxQ1 said, I don't think the fact that would require more than 15 minutes is a bad thing, especially bearing in mind that DXHR is apparently 25-50 hours long: if the demo's an hour long, even taking the lowest estimate of full game time you're still only looking at 4% of the game in the demo. Compare that to (say) Modern Warfare, which had a half an hour demo and a 6 hour campaign (so 8.3% of the game, says my mental math) and the idea seems fine. Just as a mention, Shogun 2's demo took me about 3 hours to complete.

I wouldn't want to see the pre-aug section in the demo though: from what we understand, most of it's story, which isn't what a demo's really about (that much can be shown in trailers etc) and on rails, and the part that is fully playable is just a straightforward shooter, according to the previews.

If tomorrow's gameplay trailer isn't the Purity First hostage mission, then that sounds like it would make the ideal demo. EM should do what they did for the press: give us a few praxis points (more than they'd have in the actual game) and let us go nuts. As it's the kind of demo you'll probably play multiple times, EM should probably lock off some of the higher end augs so there's stuff we can't see in the demo, or even lock off entire branches so long as we still get the chance to create different builds - e.g. allow run silent for the stealth player, but lock off invisibility, allow claymore for the action player (because God knows EM seem to be in love with that aug and will surely want to show it off in the demo!) but lock off multi-person takedowns, etc etc. That way you'll still be able to make a stealth build and an action build, but without seeing too many of the augs.

If tomorrow's gameplay trailer is the Purity First hostage mission, then the Detroit PD sounds like it would work, so long as it's not too far into the game and so not too spoileriffic.

Though I'm still really keen to see one of the hub areas in a video, and see what the game is like when there aren't enemies around, I don't think that's necessary for a demo, as it'd take too long and require too many sidequests to do that in the timeframe a demo allows, even if that's an hour or so.

Ooh, the demo should include hacking as well.

As for why I want a demo? There are 2 reasons, really:

1) To check that the PC version has been given sufficient love and attention, and it isn't just a console port. You can tell me that it's being treated well until you're blue in the face, but until I actually sit down with it, see the UI, get used to the controls, fiddle with the options, see how it runs, and check there's not a "Press Start" screen (looking at you, Crysis 2) I'm not going to believe it - and until I believe the PC version is properly tailored to the platform, I won't be buying it. Also, if you make the demo console exclusive (or even timed exclusive) even though the game itself isn't, you'll lose yourself a potential customer, as that'll be enough of a sign to me that you don't care about the PC audience.

2) Related to the above: just to check that I want to buy the game at all. I love Deus Ex, but unlike some people on here, simply slapping the name on the front of the box isn't enough to get me to buy a game. There are a number of design choices I disagree with in this game, and we keep getting told that they work well when you actually play the game - well that's great, but I'm not going to put money down on some vague promises from the very people who are trying to sell the game to me. One way or another, I will try the game before I buy it: either it's a demo, which is the vastly preferred option, or I'll have to look to other less legitimate means. I really don't want to do that, but I will if it's my only option.

[EDIT] Just tweeted the following to David Anfossi, so he knows people are discussing the topic here:


@DavidAnfossi Response to your questions about a DXHR demo here: http://bit.ly/DXHRdemo - They start about 15 posts down the page. Enjoy!

MrFoxter
17th Mar 2011, 23:04
^ I think that some players will be confused without the fleshy tutorial level. Too steep learning curve ->*no purchase. It would make appropriate part of the demo, and I can imagine the ending being right after social battle with Zeke. It has everything - tutorial with basics (combat), hub exploration (Sarif HQ), sidequests, choice and consequence (hostages die if you don't shake a leg), some actual gameplay in the warehouse (including stealth and hacking), social battle with Zeke and you can make a nice story cliffhanger at the end. Contains all four pillars and together makes nice representation of game if you ask me.


Just tweeted the following to David Anfossi, so he knows people are discussing the topic here:

Thanks, I was going to do that when there will be some replies here :thumb:

mentalkase
17th Mar 2011, 23:51
Maybe I just take even longer than I thought to go through a game but I don't recall ever playing a 15 minute demo. If I had i'd have felt extremely ripped off to be honest. It seems like the majority of demos i've tried recently have taken me at least 30-60 minutes.

Rindill the Red
19th Mar 2011, 02:27
I'm on the fence about buying the game. A demo would definitely help me decide. That being said, I don't need a demo, I'd probably just wait for the general consensus of the board, or ****** the game and see if I like it.

ArcR
19th Mar 2011, 02:41
Wow. I wasn't expecting that kind of response from EM. David Anfossi nailed every single point on the head. Just wow...

I'm have to sleep on this.

Rainbow6Team
19th Mar 2011, 07:42
Looks like he bullcraping everyone.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
21st Mar 2011, 17:49
EM Blog (translation from FR) (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gameblog.fr%2Fblogs%2Feidosmontreal%2Fp_30212_demo-ou-pas-demo)
I don't speak French, so feel free to correct the translation, you French speakers ;)

Thanks, added this info to first post. :thumb:


Comments from David Anfossi, taken from recent EM blog (French) - 25 March 2011:


"Starting next week, we will work with the Marketing department and do our best to release a demo. Attention, I promise nothing, but we'll try!"

Senka
26th Mar 2011, 02:50
will delete this one asap.
(nope)

:rasp:

BigBoss
26th Mar 2011, 03:13
The current trend is not to a release a demo to the public. At least not to the PC crowd. As a PC gamer I can't say that I blame them. Just look at Crysis 2, it got slated on a bunch of forums before the game was even released. I think gamers handled it in a childish manner.


Yeah, I'm loving crysis 2 right now and was thinking about joining their forums. But when I saw a kid getting a "lawsuit from his uncle" ready against crytek for not having proper day 1 matchmaking on the ps3 or something, I quietly left.

Moeez
26th Mar 2011, 07:59
Without a demo i'll just *snip*...
Umm, are you threatening on these official forums to torrent the game?! You know what happened with EA, people were banned from playing their Dragon Age 2 because they badmouthed on the official forums.

Torrenting is NEVER a good idea. No single justification for it.

TheYouthCounselor
26th Mar 2011, 08:05
I always try a game before I buy the full version. Demos are what makes me buy games without pirating.

wheresmyskulgun
26th Mar 2011, 09:45
Umm, are you threatening on these official forums to torrent the game?! You know what happened with EA, people were banned from playing their Dragon Age 2 because they badmouthed on the official forums.

Torrenting is NEVER a good idea. No single justification for it.

Despite the fact that nothing in this post should be construed as encouraging others to torrent, I do understand the mindset which says 'if there's no demo, I'll torrent, try the first hour of the game, if it's good I'll buy it, and if not I'll delete it." Again, not supporting torrenting, but developers push players into doing it when they don't release demos. Same goes for when they use multiple exclusive pre-order packs; if there's no way to get everything aside from torrenting, people will torrent.

EM could easily avoid this, and while I won't download illegally myself, I won't exactly shed any tears if their own silly mistakes cause them to lose money.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
26th Mar 2011, 11:34
Umm, are you threatening on these official forums to torrent the game?! You know what happened with EA, people were banned from playing their Dragon Age 2 because they badmouthed on the official forums.
Torrenting is NEVER a good idea. No single justification for it.

Ugh, his post was overlooked. Deleted now and warning issued.
Let's move away from this sort of discussion folks. Thank you.



(nope)

:rasp:

Done now. I had to go to bed, early hours of the morning 'n all... :p

mahmoudd
26th Mar 2011, 12:42
Shadowrunner;1564165']Demo would be nice, but let's face it... it's Deus Ex, a demo is kinda unnecessary, everyone is going to try it, I'd rather see resources on DLC and SDK. If they managed both it would be groovy gravy for the next ten years.

they need to make some tech demo to see if the game runs fine on the computer

SageSavage
26th Mar 2011, 13:05
So I ask the following questions:
• Do you want a demo of the game and why (are you skeptical about the quality of play, cautious to invest 70 Euros or just impatient)?
Eh, what is that supposed to mean?

Lady_Of_The_Vine
26th Mar 2011, 13:09
Eh, what is that supposed to mean?

What he says, I guess.
Do we just want the demo because we aren't sure of the quality of gameplay and wish to be cautious before spending our money, or is it because we are impatient to play, knowing that we have to wait until August.

SageSavage
26th Mar 2011, 13:11
My question was about the bit with "70 Euros" - they are not trying to raise the standard pricing level like EA did with MW2, are they?

[FGS]Shadowrunner
26th Mar 2011, 13:20
I don't want a demo, I want the team to invest time and money in the game itself. I believe in the team. I am horrified that highlighting of objects at distance will occur and not allow me to investigate rooms, but otherwise I support every last decision I've seen. Even if they have inadvertantly removed some crucial aspects of the magic, it's still obviously a game far better than IW and with many features far better than DX1. DXHR is a game that is worth buying, even if you are not yet a Deus Ex fan or franchise customer.

Also, it is not clear how to respond to David's request. Where do we give our answer? This thread? or on the original site?

pall
26th Mar 2011, 13:27
I want demo to check gameplay personaly, and decide if it's worth to buy game or not.

Nyysjan
26th Mar 2011, 15:59
What he says, I guess.
Do we just want the demo because we aren't sure of the quality of gameplay and wish to be cautious before spending our money, or is it because we are impatient to play, knowing that we have to wait until August.

All of the above.
I am doubtfull of the quality of gameplay (and design, devs claim highlighting is not as obnoxious, when plying, but we got no actual proof of that, and the level design in the gameplay vid seemed simplistic at best), i dislike having to use money on games i am not sure of (i don't have excess of it to begin with, so i only buy games i really, really want to play, otherwise i wait until i get one on sale (Alpha protocol, bought it last month, decided i made the right decision to wait until i got it for 20€ on sale) or not at all), and i am impatient to get to play the game (Dragon Age 2 will only last for so long, no intention of trying RIFT, tired of WoW and SW:TOR will get released god knows when, might buy sims medieval but kinda strapped for cash).

Rainhands
26th Mar 2011, 16:51
Shadowrunner;1588874']I don't want a demo, I want the team to invest time and money in the game itself. I believe in the team. I am horrified that highlighting of objects at distance will occur and not allow me to investigate rooms, but otherwise I support every last decision I've seen. Even if they have inadvertantly removed some crucial aspects of the magic, it's still obviously a game far better than IW and with many features far better than DX1. DXHR is a game that is worth buying, even if you are not yet a Deus Ex fan or franchise customer.

Are you trolling? I don't mean to be rude but you stand by every single thing the company does and pounce on any minor criticism a forum member makes. I also like how the game is shaping up for the most part, but even I don't agree with everything. I bet the developers also harbor personal grievances that cannot be altered at this point.

Now you are even against a demo so that people can try before they buy? We want to know how it runs on our system, get a feel for the controls, discover if the yellow filter ruins the atmosphere, accustom ourselves to a typical map layout and see how well the third person cover system adjusts in the new game. And you are against it? I won't waste any more time on this response. You are worse than a fanboy. That is all.

VectorM
26th Mar 2011, 17:04
If he was he stood by everything EM did, he would like the highlighting. Which he doesn't. At all.

raz3r
26th Mar 2011, 17:32
I don't need to try the gameplay, it's a Deus Ex game and I am pretty much sure they're doing a wonderful job. That said a tech demo would be more interesting because it won't spoiler anything and will allow players to see if their PCs are capable to run the game or not.

Anyway, I preordered my Augmented Edition months ago, if my PC won't be enough powerfull I'll upgrade it, Deus Ex deservers it.

Srosa
26th Mar 2011, 17:47
Remember, putting together a demo could also take out time from polishing the game. What would you prefer, a better end-product or a demo for a less polished end-product. I'm not saying this is the case with DX:HR, I'm just wondering.

DX3 is already wrong in many aspects so having it polished or unpolished at this point wouldn't be a big issue.

Let's just hope for DX4 or Crysis 3 or anything else to look less like a game made after a dumb superhero comic and more like a serious and darkness and violent game/movie: ultra fantastic both externally (graphics) and internally (gameplay).

Or let's just hope for some talented and dope people to re-catch the initial feelings that got me when it was just DX3 to turn it into a movie.

Ashpolt
26th Mar 2011, 17:54
I don't need to try the gameplay, it's a Deus Ex game and I am pretty much sure they're doing a wonderful job. That said a tech demo would be more interesting because it won't spoiler anything and will allow players to see if their PCs are capable to run the game or not.

You realise a full playable demo would allow people to see if their PCs are capable of running the game as well, right? And if chosen well, wouldn't spoiler any more than we already know? But you'd still rather not be able to play the game before you buy than be able to.

Oy vey.

pha
26th Mar 2011, 17:56
I don't need to try the gameplay, it's a Deus Ex game and I am pretty much sure they're doing a wonderful job.

What do you think about Invisible War?

ArcR
26th Mar 2011, 18:01
What he says, I guess.
Do we just want the demo because we aren't sure of the quality of gameplay and wish to be cautious before spending our money, or is it because we are impatient to play, knowing that we have to wait until August.

I've learned patiences. I'm deciding if it worth preordering. I don't know how they can create a demo that would accomplish everything D. Anfossi lists but thats pretty much what it would take. Otherwise I'll wait for a bargain. The exception is if Amazon reviews and the forums start raving about it. Then I'd buy it without a demo at the 20-30 price point.

OrlanduMike
26th Mar 2011, 18:07
To try it, what is the definition of demo.

OrlanduMike
26th Mar 2011, 18:09
Since it would be my fiest Deux Ex game, it would nice to start the scenarios with more experience.

I'm also interested in seeing the graphics and play it and it would probably encourage me to pre-order the game, otherwise, I may forget it or bought something else.
Also, if the game convince me and there is plan for a multiplayer experience, I will convience friends.
Good example of nice campaign and multiplayer system : Starcraft 2

Thanks

ArcR
26th Mar 2011, 18:26
Since it would be my fiest Deux Ex game, it would nice to start the scenarios with more experience.

I'm also interested in seeing the graphics and play it and it would probably encourage me to pre-order the game, otherwise, I may forget it or bought something else.
Also, if the game convince me and there is plan for a multiplayer experience, I will convience friends.
Good example of nice campaign and multiplayer system : Starcraft 2

Thanks

In general this game is about your personal journey through the world they made. Hard to explain why you shouldn't care if you haven't played the first but. Your decisions affect your experience. Although I can this game becoming an awesome multiplayer in the future it isn't the main focus.

Brockxz
26th Mar 2011, 18:29
So I ask the following questions:
• Do you want a demo of the game and why (are you skeptical about the quality of play, cautious to invest 70 Euros or just impatient)?
What kind of bull**** question it is? I really don't understand gaming industry today. Since when demo isn't the best way to promote game?
But of course we are cautious to spend money on product we haven't tried for ourselves. Of course we want to test out system if we can actually run the game. Of course a lot of people are impatient to play the game.
We have been already fooled to buy games by flashy trailers and we don 't want to buy blindly anymore. For myself i can say that i'm really cautious about the game because you are new developement team and I don 't know if you can actually deliever what you are promising and also not everything I see in your trailers I like. And if you repeate that players have to play the game and those things we are *****ing about doesn 't look that bad as we say then how can we reassure ourself if you don 't give us a chance.
Maybe ask yourself a question what are you afraid of if you don't release the demo before game hits release day? Are you afraid that we won 't actually like the game? Are you afraid that we will be right about all those things we have discussed here?

raz3r
26th Mar 2011, 18:31
You realise a full playable demo would allow people to see if their PCs are capable of running the game as well, right? And if chosen well, wouldn't spoiler any more than we already know? But you'd still rather not be able to play the game before you buy than be able to.

Oy vey.
I just expressed my opinion, a playable demo would be good for me as well, as long as they don't spoiler too much. But if they do a playable demo they need to be really carefull. Look at what happened with Dragon Age II, they released an old version wich had nothing to do with the final game. I am pretty sure that most of the people who played the demo said "wtf is this ****?".


What do you think about Invisible War?
I enjoyed Invisible War, despite all the bad comments I still think it is a good game, not as much as the first Deus Ex of course but again, I did enjoy it. And by the way Human Revolution has nothing to do with Invisible War, at all.

ArcR
26th Mar 2011, 18:35
In terms of spoilers to the story I was thinking that they could use the beginning of the game. That way you will be introduced to the story and can potentially pick up right were you left off. The catch of course is that you won't have all the cool augmentations that will sell everyone else. Maybe the takedowns will sell that crowd. Or maybe they could have a tutorial with badass Aug usage to demonstrate what the game will later be like. They could show it off as a Serif Technology demo.

Brockxz
26th Mar 2011, 18:37
I just expressed my opinion, a playable demo would be good for me as well, as long as they don't spoiler too much. But if they do a playable demo they need to be really carefull. Look at what happened with Dragon Age II, they released an old version wich had nothing to do with the final game. I am pretty sure that most of the people who played the demo said "wtf is this ****?".
Most of the gamers said wtf is this **** not because it wasn't final product but because it was so different than Origins was. Combat was so fast and it looked like RPG elements was absolutely stripped away.
And how can you say that demo had nothing to do with the final game when the first part of the demo is actually the tutorial part of the game? It was exactly the same in the final version.