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ShadowRatchet6
29th Jan 2011, 20:48
I never played the other Deus Ex games before, and I see people saying that Invisible War was so bad, so why was it?

Freecell
29th Jan 2011, 21:04
Hi ShadowRatchet6!

You need to know why the first Deus EX was so great to understand why the second part was...you know really bad and a great dissapointment.

In the first Deus EX the way you played it was really your choice. Everything, really everthing you did in this game was followed by consequences. Good and bad ones.

The Skill System was based on Skillpoints. There were so many secrets, which where great opportunities to get extra amount of points. So based on the skillpoint system your choice to make your character as individual as possible was great.

The story from part 1 was like an epic movie. Every little fact mattered and was a tiny picture of a great one. You could say it was a puzzle. The story really was logical and followed by consequences.

So what was it about part 2?

In part 2 for example you had to choose between 2 gangs. No matter what you did in the end the result was always the same.

The story felt like glued together and didn't really go smooth. The skillpoint system was cancelled and replaced by a simple skilltree.

All in all you could say Deus EX 2 was a completely trimmed game...

AxiomaticBadger
29th Jan 2011, 21:04
Bad graphics, chunky interface, bad gameplay mechanics, poor level design, masses of loading screens made the world feel claustophobic, unlikable characters, godawful voiceacting.

And Bugs. Many, many bugs. Proper game-killers, too.

Some will say it's only a bad game compared to the original. They lie.

BigBoss
29th Jan 2011, 21:28
nothing bothers me more in a game where you "make decisions" and they don't count for ****. So far i'm unimpressed with how little has carried over from mass effect to part 2, but i'm reserving judgement because they claim over 1200 choices will carry to part 3. Kotor did it right, but dragon age was total fail. A little paragraph at the end of the game? Come on.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
29th Jan 2011, 21:32
IW is a good game, it's just not a proper sequel to DX, some tech issues, loading, UI etc. Also the storylines/endings are questionable perhaps. Personally, I think JCDenton was a humanistic character, who loved the Rentons, Hell's Kitchen, Jock, Shaney, Jordan, Smuggler, Paul etc... I can't see him ever merging with a machine, I doubt he would have killed everyone left in Area51 either, I enjoyed the fact that the Everett ending had a sad twist and was realistic, like real life and the fact that he was just a cog in a larger machine.

Rindill the Red
29th Jan 2011, 21:32
Ah, a post mortem.

There were two basic reasons I see DX:IW failed... an absolutely horrible engine and streamlining. The levels were just too damn small and loading times too damn long. The characters were ugly, the animations horrible, and the voice acting atrocious. The "streamlined" UI was terrible. The streamlined gameplay and inventory was terrible. The story was pretty bad too, especially when you compare it to the original.

AlexOfSpades
29th Jan 2011, 21:46
Honestly?

I liked the gameplay, i liked the guns, i liked the clothes, the graphics and so on.

I just hated the story. Close to the first DX, it was terribly stupid.

pi r squared
29th Jan 2011, 22:00
Some will say it's only a bad game compared to the original. They lie.I am one of those people, although I don't consider that I "lie". DX:IW wasn't a bad game per se, but it was a bad Deus Ex game, and it was also quite a bad PC game. I don't think it's entirely fair to cite bad graphics and poor voice-acting as reasons why DX:IW was a bad game, when we quite happily overlook the worse graphics and worse voice-acting in the first game to brand it the best game ever.

The choice-and-consequence system was quite good on the choices side - having two mutually-exclusive quests available did initially generate a feeling of choice and free will - but poor on the consequences side. Even something as simple as 'if you do X number of quests that piss off a particular faction, you can no longer work for that faction' would have added some realism and consequence to your actions. That said, the choice system is still better than had been seen in most console games to that date, so as a console game it probably "seemed" better. The game even did a reasonable job of preempting decisions you may have made, like in the original. For instance, I believe there were three different responses from the guy in the greasel pit depending on whether you hadn't encountered Tina's greasel yet, had killed it, or had simply tranq'ed it. At least that was in the spirit of the original game, even if the unified ammo and streamlined everything wasn't.

AxiomaticBadger
29th Jan 2011, 22:12
I don't think it's entirely fair to cite bad graphics and poor voice-acting as reasons why DX:IW was a bad game, when we quite happily overlook the worse graphics and worse voice-acting in the first game to brand it the best game ever.
... The graphics and voice acting were better in the first game. IW has serious uncanny valley issues. Each and every character looks like a puppet.
The only IW character who has halfway decent, emotive voiceacting is the AI jukebox. The rest of the cast sound forced and emotionally detached.
Where JC comes across as stoic, alex sounds semi-conscious.

JCpies
29th Jan 2011, 22:16
I've literally just started IW, so here's a quick overview of what I think.

Most things seem forced, with characters just standing around, at one point one of the characters was just frozen on the spot. Everything seems like a triggered event and the dialogue seems so dull and boring, I've actually gived in to skipping it.

It's quite small and enclosed which, I don't mind for visual purposes, but it's akward when you're trying to get around. It also limits explorability and realism if you're forced through what I can compare to a maze made for labrats.

I also have issues with the interface. Not its appearance, but the way it works. Had it been Deus Ex 1's hud in a different shape, it'd be fair enough.
It's not terrible, it could entertain me for a few days, but I find it a bit clunky.

pi r squared
29th Jan 2011, 22:23
The graphics and voice acting were better in the first game. IW has serious uncanny valley issues.Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding you, the implication of DX:IW having uncanny valley issues is that you believe the graphics to be more realistic (and therefore "better") than in DX. Unless you're implying that DX had graphics that were barely distinguishable from the real thing, and that DX:IW took a step backwards into the valley, which I don't think you are somehow.

I only ever played the female Alex D so I can't speak for the male version, but the female certainly had more emotion and "oomph" in her voice than JCD did. There was still some dud acting, don't get me wrong, but on the whole I believe it is better - especially when you consider the non-homeland portions of the original game...

AxiomaticBadger
29th Jan 2011, 22:41
Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding you, the implication of DX:IW having uncanny valley issues is that you believe the graphics to be more realistic (and therefore "better") than in DX.
DX had better skin tones, better character proportions and consistant texturing. The character models in IW had more polygons but had flesh the colour of wax that shone worryingly in the lighting effects.
Sooo, better technology, worse craftsmanship.
especially when you consider the non-homeland portions of the original game...
The accents were corny, sure, but the emotive content just steamrollered any awkwardness.
With a few tragic exceptions.

ZakKa89
29th Jan 2011, 22:53
-The overall look and design. Invisible War looked more like star trek then deus ex. Weapons in deus ex for example should maintain that realistic style.
-loading times and small area's.
-story.
-voice actors.
-setting
-Graphics
-gameplay was mostly the samme multisolution gameplay, but it was less appealing. Level design was worse.
-changes made to the hud and augmentations.


I replayed deus ex a couple of months ago and it was GREAT. After I finished Deus Ex 1, I tried invisible war again, and I hated it from the start. They seriously screwed almost everything up. It was still a good game back then, but it doesn't hold up at all. Couldn't get trough it.

Rindill the Red
29th Jan 2011, 22:54
I can tell you why it sucks now. It won't play on my Windows 7. Crashes consistently loading the third level.

ZakKa89
29th Jan 2011, 23:07
I can tell you why it sucks now. It won't play on my Windows 7. Crashes consistently loading the third level.

I'm amazed you even got to the third level :)

The first deus ex is also giving me some technical problems with opengl. I had to restart deus ex in direct3d mode and then restart it in opengl for it to work. Weird. But you know what?| I didn't care, because it was worth the (little) trouble. <3


I'm trying to understand how people can see negative comments about DX:IW and yet, never see what those comments are. How is it easier to read new posts than any one of the dozens of existing threads where you saw the negative comments to begin with? Is it a mistaken belief that the passage of time improves the commentary? Starting yet another thread about it helps who how?

We need to rant on IW every now and then, so I am okay with this thread :)

AlexOfSpades
29th Jan 2011, 23:14
I'm trying to understand how people can see negative comments about DX:IW and yet, never see what those comments are. How is it easier to read new posts than any one of the dozens of existing threads where you saw the negative comments to begin with? Is it a mistaken belief that the passage of time improves the commentary? Starting yet another thread about it helps who how?

You say it like we had some kind of "search function", or any website with a searching mechanism to filter the web.

Zakka, well said. Alex Denton really dresses herself/himself with that Spock outfit.

And they took away the supercreativeandawesome mini crossbow and replaced it with some magical plasma arrow device.

Actually i cant even imagine how an energy-based weapon (energy = heat?) could be non-lethal (it burns and rips, damn.)

The weapon design is truly terrible. The submachinegun sounds and looks impressive, but actually deals no damage. The pistol is a joke. The Magrail, that was supposed to be the gun, wasnt thaaat much.

DX:IW = Sniper + Sword

The energy-katana thing looks cooler than DX1's Dragon Tooth, however. And it has a weird sound when touching objects. Pewn!

TrickyVein
29th Jan 2011, 23:56
I remember when IW first came out, it boasted fully dynamic-lighting, which was pretty freaking awesome. I remember that was a big selling point for me.

The game had tons going for it in the beginning. Seattle, Mako ballistics, Cairo, all were really enjoyable.

But then you met Tong in Germany, and then...yeah.

The story, mostly, is what sucked so hard about the game. And lack of customization, challenge.

Serendip1ty
30th Jan 2011, 00:00
Here's what the lead designer of Deus Ex: Invisible War has to say about "his" project in retrospect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGIdYl2oN74

3rdmillhouse
30th Jan 2011, 03:46
I never played the other Deus Ex games before, and I see people saying that Invisible War was so bad, so why was it?

Terribly retarded AI and universal ammunition.

Dresden
30th Jan 2011, 04:08
Because "choice" in DX:IW simply means there's an unlocked vent literally right next to a locked door 75% of the time.

sonicsidewinder
30th Jan 2011, 04:41
It just didnt convey a good enough atmosphere.

I didnt give a **** about any of the groups whom were after my co-operation.

It's just one of those games were u just think "meh it's just...it's just...dargh its ****."

That's IF you can get it to run.

BigBoss
30th Jan 2011, 04:44
Because "choice" in DX:IW simply means there's an unlocked vent literally right next to a locked door 75% of the time.

yes

Kvltism
30th Jan 2011, 09:47
- No skill-points.
- Botched augmentation system.
- SO.MANY.LOAD.SCREENS.
- Ugly, clunky HUD/user interface.
- Terrible inventory system.
- Speech is extremely sluggish.
- Half-arsed storyline that never really gained traction.
- Levels are boring. Whatever happened to VersaLife, Hell's Kitchen and Paris?
- Lack of consequences attached to your choices.

etc, etc. With that being said, I don't think Invisible War is a bad game. It is just terrible when you compare it to the original Deus Ex.

biofuel
30th Jan 2011, 10:56
Yeah it was more of a case that the first game was like, so great, that everybody had major expectations that weren't fulfilled even nearly really.

Crane
30th Jan 2011, 11:15
I will say, I think there were some things IW did right though. A few, anyway.
Weapon mods were more interesting, for one thing. I want to see more things like the Glass Destabiliser in HR.
Augs were... More meaningful, it seemed to me. I won't say better, but I felt like I was getting more bang for my buck, as it were, than I did in the original.
I also think that IW had more varied choice of augs than the original. The system for choosing between them and the distribution of upgrades sucked, though.

I confess, I can't think of any other areas where IW compares favourably to DX though.

Oh, and to my mind, the worst, most slipshod, down-right lazy piece of console-to-PC porting was the hacking controls. What's that you say, you've just finished hacking into a computer! Well, you navigate its interface with the movement keys, not your mouse! What do you mean there's a distinct difference between keys and a mouse? It's just like having two analogue sticks! After all, we hard-coded it to respond to the movement inputs of the left analogue stick on the X-box, so damn it, you'll use WASD and like it!


And they took away the supercreativeandawesome mini crossbow and replaced it with some magical plasma arrow device.


I actually really liked the boltcaster, if only because it was fun to listen to enemies when you shot them.

*PTUNK* *THOCK*
"Argh! Ungh, some kind of poison!"
"Argh! Agh, neurotoxin!"
"Argh! Hnh, ...acid!?"

pi r squared
30th Jan 2011, 12:06
The AI was improved too in DX:IW, aside from the fact that you could throw objects into the face of friendly NPCs forever and never have them turn enemy.

I'm not suggesting this was necessarily better, but one interesting by-product of the consolisation of DX:IW came about from them replacing keypad entries and computer logins with automatic versions of the same. As a result, if you wanted to log in to that machine, you had to go and speak to the NPC, or sacrifice a multitool to open the safe to get the datacube, or go off on some mission to find it. In DX, you could easily expend a lockpick opening a cupboard to find the keycode, go and open the door, get shot in the face by a turret, reload a previous save, and go straight to the door armed now with both the keycode AND the lockpick you had to sacrifice before. I would take manual entry of logins and keycodes any day of the week over IW's automated system (and I'm extremely pleased to see evidence of its return in DX:HR) for the sake of increased realism, but that unrealistic flaw was at least countered in IW, intentionally or (as is more likely) not.

H.D.Case
30th Jan 2011, 13:09
Because the hot holo-AI-singer had squint eyes. Period.

motsm
30th Jan 2011, 13:43
Bad graphics, chunky interface, bad gameplay mechanics, poor level design, masses of loading screens made the world feel claustophobic, unlikable characters, godawful voiceacting.

And Bugs. Many, many bugs. Proper game-killers, too.

Some will say it's only a bad game compared to the original. They lie.They lie? No, they have a different opinion. Ass.

Anyway, IW is fine, it's just nothing compared to Deus Ex. Of course it has all the typical issues you get from a console port, but if we are really being honest, that's basically every single shooter, and nearly every big budget game released in recent years, so it's kind of a given.

Kvltism
30th Jan 2011, 13:49
Of course it has all the typical issues you get from a console port, but if we are really being honest, that's basically every single shooter, and nearly every big budget game released in recent years, so it's kind of a given.

That doesn't make it acceptable.

motsm
30th Jan 2011, 13:58
That doesn't make it acceptable.Of course not, but when almost every single game has such issues and one still allows some similar game play choices found in Deus Ex that almost no other games have, it's something that can be taken in stride, IMO.

As others have already said, I think most of the hate for IW is just based on expectations. It even took me around 4 years to end up enjoying IW, as I hated it as a Deus Ex game when I first played it. I re bought it years later with different expectations, and found it to be an enjoyable game once unlinked from the original.

Edit: With that said, I've already prepared myself for Human Revolution in that way, I know for certain it won't be anything like Deus Ex, and I already know I am going to despise a number of elements found in the game, perhaps to levels of down right anger and frustration if I ever play it. However, if the game has some enjoyable qualities beyond some of that, it may be worth playing once detached from any and all expectations the IP brings.

biofuel
30th Jan 2011, 15:57
I will say, I think there were some things IW did right though. A few, anyway.
Weapon mods were more interesting, for one thing. I want to see more things like the Glass Destabiliser in HR.
Augs were... More meaningful, it seemed to me. I won't say better, but I felt like I was getting more bang for my buck, as it were, than I did in the original.

Concepts are OK, but if the actual game sucks then they become rather meaningless. The game itself has to be sweet for these concepts to shine, which is why they didn't in Invisible War, and I still had way more fun with Deus Ex 1's augs and weapon mod concepts because the game itself was way better overall. :p

Dead-Eye
30th Jan 2011, 16:31
The Illuminati placed a Hex on it.

Pinky_Powers
30th Jan 2011, 16:35
The Invisible War J.C. Denton looked like a psychopathic villain from a bad 80s movie.

"That is why you fail."

-:end of transmission:-

singularity
31st Jan 2011, 01:36
It really boils down to a handful of things.

Atmosphere: IW looked like a more traditional sci-fi venture than anything relating to cyberpunk. Everything was purple-ish, smooth and chromed, and the world felt too high-tech for it's own good, despite the fact that humanity was rebuilding from a horrible colapse. As was mentioned before, it looks more like star trek than Blade Runner (especially the new, JJ Abrahms star trek). Bad voice acting and bland characters did little to help this. Also, certain things that were done with the DX mythos (like JC's character, Tong in Germany, etc) didn't sit well with a lot of fans. Also -- every damn gun took the same ammo... seriously. Flamethrower, crossbow, sniper rifle... all just generic "ammo" that every gun shared. You can immagine the difficulties with that, and the nightmare associated with running out of ammo. Which brings us to...

Simplification: The original DX was great because it let you customize the experience in a lot of ways -- from the weapons you carried, how you upgraded those weapons, the augs you installed and how you upgraded the augs, and your personal skills. Large, intricate, areas were also riddled with secret areas and cool things to find. Also, the choices you made had consequences on how you played through parts of a level. With IW, this simply wasn't so. The invintory was hacked to pieces, weapons could only be upgraded slightly (2 upgrades per gun), and most weapons were useless. The skill-point system was completely removed, and the aug system was vastly simplified (and no longer permentant -- you could swap installed augs at will). DXIW essentially removed or simplified every RPG aspect that was available in DX1. IW also took the large, detailed enviornments that were filled with goodies and secret areas and replaced it with cramped, sectional locations where there was little to find and few reasons to explore. It didn't appeal to shooting fans because there were long conversations, stealthy parts and weak guns. It didn't appeal to RPG fans because all the RPG elements had been nerfed and the game was very simple. It didn't appeal to stealth fans because the opportuinty to use stealth wasn't very rewarding. All of this was compounded by...

Technical Errors: While the xbox verson (my prefered way of playing IW) was mostly glitch free, the PC version of IW is still practicly unplayable to this day. After the release of IW, it seemed as if many of the problems terrorizing the game were forgotten, and it wasn't supported nearly as well as fans hoped it would be after release. Also, for the technology available at the time, the game seemed very limited. Graphics were poor, AI was passable, but not great, and loading times were far too long and too frequent. For a good reference point, look at the original Splinter Cell and it's sequel, Pandora Tomorrow. Both were released around the same time as DXIW and featured vastly improved graphics, sound, and AI, even when viewed on a console.

IW wasn't horrible... but DX had built a legacy by the time it came out, and it didn't exactly show up with it's game-face on. Sub-standard sequel.

Shralla
31st Jan 2011, 01:44
Weapon mods were more interesting, for one thing. I want to see more things like the Glass Destabiliser in HR.

Disagree. General improvements on your weapons are better than superpowers for your gun.


Augs were... More meaningful, it seemed to me.

Yeah, especially the way you could just hotswap them anytime you wanted. More meaningful for sure. Really gave me a sense of finality in my decisions.

Really I didn't see anything about Invisible War that was better than the first one, with the exception of the graphics and AI obviously.

TrickyVein
31st Jan 2011, 02:34
It really boils down to a handful of things.

For what it's worth, I'm a fan of Invisi War's sleek, smooth, high-tech architecture. Especially upper Seattle and the Archology in Cairo. The Black Gate compound in Trier.

The Versalife Base in Antarctica, now that I'm remembering, was absolutley amazing. And creepy, with that music. That level felt most like a DX environment than any other in that game.

And again, am I not remembering correctly when I say that Invisi War's dynamic-lighting was practically unprecedented? :confused:

rhalibus
31st Jan 2011, 02:36
Really I didn't see anything about Invisible War that was better than the first one, with the exception of the graphics and AI obviously.

You could pick up bodies and throw them at other people. :) Other than that, yeah too claustrophobic and simplified. DX1 seemed to have limitless possibilities, while DX2 was like a "choose-your-own-adventure" book with limited options.

TheYouthCounselor
31st Jan 2011, 08:13
You could pick up bodies and throw them at other people. :)

You could do that in the first. Unless you're pointing out that this featured was improved by ragdolls, which I would disagree on. Ragdolls are fun and add to immersion, but Invisible War had noodle people.

Red
31st Jan 2011, 16:10
The dumbest thing was that you could do all the missions for all the factions in one playthrough and all the others did was say "Man, not cool! But okay, we forgive you if you do next job for us."

Well, actually once they send 2 NPCs to "take you down". At that stage in the game you were indestructible machine, capable of killing 5 enemies with a single fart. And after you kill them you get a message "OK, we couldn't kill you, fine, we forgive you for your treachery. Here's your new assignment".

Loltastic I'd say.

H.D.Case
31st Jan 2011, 16:56
OFC DX:IW had good points. Like the info terminals, for instance. Or a new idea of an AI. The problem is it all was executed poorly and the overall plot was pretty shallow, simplistic. And the main character, at least the male version, was annoying - he was a lump. The graphics, although more advanced, looked uglier.
Anyway, topic like that were covered like 2 years ago or so.

JCDentonMale
3rd Feb 2011, 10:03
Why did I found Deux Ex 2 to be bad ? Well, simple answer : Because I played Deux Ex 1.

Angel-A
4th Feb 2011, 16:45
Deus Ex: Real conspiracies, severe consequences.
Invisible War: ...

Rockn-Roll
4th Feb 2011, 18:18
I wouldn't say DX:IW was bad...I'd give it like an 80% or so even. The reason it has a bad rep is because it could easily have been better. From an overall perspective...recalling from the last time I played it which was at least 5 years ago...I can remember that the missions were well written and the maps were well designed and the graphics were well implemented and the gameplay felt easy to control and the weapons were cool, etc. But, they had different directions. The overall story seemed to be more of a pieced together thing and not a driving constraint. Many of the missions could have been played at any point in the game...it really didn't matter to the story i.e. with a few changes in the dialog and the objective the missions could have been played in any order.

The root of the problem is that Deus Ex set the bar really high and DX:IW drew up short.

Pretentious Old Man.
4th Feb 2011, 18:26
There was a game called Invisible War?

H.D.Case
4th Feb 2011, 20:24
II can remember that the missions were well written ... graphics were well implemented
Let us not exaggerate, I wouldn't say those were good ;) You could see what they might've wanted to do with the missions, but imo they failed to make them interesting. Many IW maps were interesting, but pretty small - you could feel that there was something wrong with those supposedly big cities. Graphics were ugly, even though more advanced than in DX, no doubt here. You may just not remember ;)
Still, that were my impressions :)

sonicsidewinder
5th Feb 2011, 03:34
There was a game called Invisible War?

eheee.

Rindill the Red
5th Feb 2011, 03:56
There was a game called Invisible War?

Yes, that's what we really need here... a case of mass self-delusion. I've been trying to forget for years.

http://i51.tinypic.com/5l2yww.jpg

Knight_Kin
6th Feb 2011, 02:22
Bad graphics, chunky interface, bad gameplay mechanics, poor level design, masses of loading screens made the world feel claustophobic, unlikable characters, godawful voiceacting.

And Bugs. Many, many bugs. Proper game-killers, too.

Some will say it's only a bad game compared to the original. They lie.

I second this statement. I figured i'd give the game another go a few months ago after playing Deus Ex 1 (owned since game first came out in 2000). I knew it was bad compared to the first one, but it's not just a bad sequel, it's a bad game period. I couldn't tolerate it for more than an hour... I just wanted to punch myself in the face.

It seriously sucks and I can't believe I actually used to play it on original Xbox when it came out in what 2002-2003? Just ignore the game entirely and play something worthwhile. Hell play the original twice then just go to DX:HR

Archy
6th Feb 2011, 03:02
the game felt really weird, kind of trippy almost
egypt was a huge sterotype. i mean, look at the cairo protests, and then the cairo portrayed ingame. along with that the graphics were goddawful even by 2003 standards. the writing was absolutely horrible i might add.

jd10013
6th Feb 2011, 18:51
I guess I fall into the camp of IW wasn't a bad game until you start comparing it to the original. I think the problem was, when the sequel was first announced, everyone assumed it would be more of what was great in DX We thought they'd try to make a more emergent game, with more options of how to play. but in reality, they wanted a more accessible game, and like some many other developers, wanted to go more mainstream. the first consequence of that was console co-development. and if that wasn't bad enough, it was being developed for older generation consoles. that more than anything else is what led to the small levels. But it didn't end there. in going for the mass market, somebody determined that the average gamer must be about 12-15 years old, which is probably what gave us the incredibly short play time, and over emphasis on graphics. that seemed to be all we heard about during development. the wonderful lighting, physics and so on. and finally, there were the poor design choices that led to universal ammo, removal of skill, constantly changeable augs and so forth.

but I still think, someone playing it without having played the first would like it. in the end, it became an entirely different game than the first. as where with DX we had some weird hybrid game that was about 40%RPG, 30%, action/adventure, and 30% shooter; with IW we ended up a game that was probably 60% , shooter, 30% action/adventure, and 10% RPG.

TheWoodsieLord
6th Feb 2011, 21:53
What makes DXIW suck compared to DX1:
- It does not remind of our world at all. The stuff we saw in DX 1 was a product of the conspiracies that were happening now. IW didn't feel that much like a conspiracy.
- The protagonist. Alex sounded like he was high all the time. You just felt stupid playing this guy after the epic badass that JC was.
- The stealth (or lack of thereof). I sneaked up on a bastard, hit him with a sword, and he just turns around and shoots me. In DX stealth was a real option.
- The UI. It was so consolized that I couldn't believe it. Especially the inventory. It takes just as much strength/room to carry a mag rail as it does for a candy bar? How?
- The length. By the time I was done with DX, and remembered how it all began, I felt nostalgic, and thought "Ah, those were the days". It took me less time to do three replays of IW than it did to play through DX 1...
- ... that is, loadings excluded. The loadings were so frustrating in IW. The areas seperated by loading screens were so small, and the loadings were so long.
- The augmentations were much better made in DX 1. Every significant part of the body could have an augmentation (well... except for THE most significant one). How many augs could you have in IW anyway?

MaxxQ1
6th Feb 2011, 23:53
How many augs could you have in IW anyway?

All of them, at one time or another, since you could hot-swap them. No consequences to your choice(s) of augs in IW.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
7th Feb 2011, 00:31
Remember, during play, please be nice to the Omar. :p

jd10013
7th Feb 2011, 22:31
All of them, at one time or another, since you could hot-swap them. No consequences to your choice(s) of augs in IW.

IIRC, there were also enough augs laying around or for purchase that you could not only change at will, but fully upgrade what you changed due to the merging of the actual augs and the upgrade canisters from DX

Pinky_Powers
7th Feb 2011, 23:18
Remember, during play, please be nice to the Omar. :p

Or, save the game first so you can reload after you've let loose the SpiderBots of war. And you certainly don't want a record of you prowling through the streets, flogging random citizens with the ragdoll corpses of slain Omar... like they're large wet noodles.

TrickyVein
7th Feb 2011, 23:24
The physics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzdQw3u9Zps#t=1m40s)may have been the best part of the game for me.

Lobbing TNT into people's faces.

Seeing guards flip backwards 720 degrees after getting shot in the head with a shotgun modified with explosive rounds.

Fun!

BigBoss
8th Feb 2011, 01:22
At that point for me the framerate would slow to a crawl, thus making it ten times funnier

AxiomaticBadger
9th Feb 2011, 12:42
Hmmmm... we maybe change thread to "what invisible war did right"?

ZakKa89
9th Feb 2011, 13:12
The physics (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzdQw3u9Zps#t=1m40s)may have been the best part of the game for me.

Lobbing TNT into people's faces.

Seeing guards flip backwards 720 degrees after getting shot in the head with a shotgun modified with explosive rounds.

Fun!

It was actually pretty revolutionar for that time (the physics) now I think about it. I checked wikipedia, and the game came out well before Far Cry and Half Life 2 (games praised for their physics). I believe one of the few or maybe only game which utilized ragdoll physics was Hitman 1.

Neuromancer07
9th Feb 2011, 13:42
I could personally handle all of Invisible War's numerous flaws if it wasn't for the ridiculously minuscule size of the levels and the implications of that for level designing. Deus Ex's elegant and almost peerless (Thief 2 is an obvious rival) multi-approach design was woefully adumbrated in the sequel, often there was merely a token alternative in the form of an incongruous or awkwardly placed ventilation shaft.

I mean Upper Seattle felt like a food court instead of a metropolitan plaza. Of course, the lack of skillpoints, the inventory, the minimisation of world-building in-game text, peripheral details and so forth were also sore points that weren't compensated by a requisite increase in complexity, sophistication or elegance in other areas.

I did however enjoy many of the ideas, the Arcology, the literal social stratification of Seattle, the dehumanisation of the Omar and the corporate machinations of the coffee brands. But at the same time Deus Ex had far more erudite observations in just one sentence in an off-hand conversation.

Ultimately it felt quite small and meagre compared to the first.

Red
9th Feb 2011, 13:53
Hmmmm... we maybe change thread to "what invisible war did right"?

Never a good thing to divide by 0.

3rdmillhouse
9th Feb 2011, 14:31
Hmmmm... we maybe change thread to "what invisible war did right"?

It would have one post, and it's content would say "nothing".

AxiomaticBadger
9th Feb 2011, 15:46
The omar were pretty cool, although they didn't do nearly enough with them. And the Jukebox was interesting.
...
Umm.
...
Hmm.
...
The helicopter pilot was hot.

Srosa
9th Feb 2011, 16:09
The helicopter pilot was hot.

Which one? :o

AxiomaticBadger
9th Feb 2011, 16:20
Ava Johnson. The one with the helicopter. :P

Srosa
9th Feb 2011, 16:27
Ava Johnson. The one with the helicopter. :P
I'm sorry, I did not see that you had specified the means of transport.

Donvermicelli
9th Feb 2011, 20:22
The omar were pretty cool, although they didn't do nearly enough with them. And the Jukebox was interesting.
...
Umm.
...
Hmm.
...
The helicopter pilot was hot.

It fustrated me that I couldn't join the omar during the game, with the exception of the ending.
If they did one thing right in IW.... hmm... I guess it's the versalife base on antartica (antartica itself blows but still) the base left such an impression. You could read how people were experiencing the blackout. They knew it happened but refused to accept it. It was the only moment of true DX gameplay for me.