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Cristiavano
28th Jan 2011, 22:06
[Mod Edit: Merged 2 similar threads]

Originally posted by Alison Anderson:


Don't get me wrong! im not asking people to comments on her bosoms >.< i know there's alot to say ;)

but upon seeing her pic's i noticed something had changed :O Lara is a much more attractive ,realistic, and not over sexed <33

allright stop beating the bush and less get back on track :)
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First off what do you think of the new lara? (eg: sexy, cool, hot mess, Bad A**!1)
And also what do you think her measurements, weight, and height will be? Do you like the: breast reduction/resized body?
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AA's Answer: I love how Lara isn't over sexed in this game it makes her much more attractive and most of all more real. i loved lara from back in the day but (gahhh) it gave her an unrealistic look and if she was real she would topple over air cause of her breasts. her body and face are more proportional to me.
im a women so i think her measurements are probably
32-34 bust c-cup?
24 inch waist
34-36 inch hip?
5'9 height?
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PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC I KNOW BREAST (and other ahhem) ARE A REALLLLY TEMPTING :)
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almost forgot these are american measurements (i believe). don't worry, you DO NOT need to convert your sizes for people to understand. i will convert them for anyone that doesn't know ;)


______________________________


Originally posted by Lyle Croft:

How close does she look compared from legend-underworld facial features
to TOMB RAIDER features.

heres the OLD VERSION (http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/ae348/Tenjou_Night/tombraiderIXpromopose1editedversion1.jpg)

heres my new xna lara render which i prefer

width='500'

VS

width='500'

also what do you think of my xna render kinda (with editing) i tried to make the same facial expression in XNA LAra.

AdobeArtist
28th Jan 2011, 23:59
The new one is better simply because it's anatomiclly correct, giving the character a sense of reality, that this is now a genuine person and not a cartoon.

TrickyVein
29th Jan 2011, 02:04
Anatomically correct does not necessarily = better.

In the case of a videogame character known for her already disproportionate anatomy, it is far better to remain consistent, internally consistent, then forsake that consistency for realism.

Elliot Kane
29th Jan 2011, 02:25
Actually, Underworld was pretty anatomically correct, not least because they based the Lara animation on the same kind of movement scanning techniques as the new one. They got a professional athlete to run through the moves to make them look more real. Alison Caroll, IIRC, who doesn't look all that different to Underworld Lara.

If you look at Lara in Underworld, she's lost the old exaggerated cartoon-like curves in favour of a more athletic look.

I think each new game has slowly moved Lara towards a more realistic look, and I can't say I mind that at all. Real women are beautiful too, you know :)

AdobeArtist
29th Jan 2011, 02:31
The thing is, Lara was always meant to be a real person. Just that her design was limited by the technology of the time. But you can see from her first render that it was still based on the basic outline of realistic anatomy (as well as an idealized female physique, from now outdated ideas). But the tech was not able to produce all the ploygons and textures needed to capture the finer details of a fully realstic human.

Consider how much she has evolved from the beginning, from TR1 to AOD, to Legend (where her breasts got just a slight reduction in size and more naturally rounded from the old "pyramids"), to Underworld.

This new character model is simply the next stage in the continuous progression we've already seen, now utilizing the capabilities of modern technology to its fullest potential. The artist have been able to create a render that has a more natural and organic feel of a real human being (closer to ho an artist ould draw a woman in traditional media) far more successfully than what was done before.

Lara isn't like some other games character's such as Mario, Leisure Suit Larry, Princess Peach, or Ratchet. There you can clearly see they were always designed as cartoons, so would never be held to the standards of realstic human proportions, like how we gaugue Nathan Drake, Sam Fisher, Nico Belic, or a host of other human characters.

Error96_
29th Jan 2011, 04:39
Sorry but I think both of the pics are terrible. The top one has quite bad render problems and the bottom one makes Lara look tomboyish.


Anatomically correct does not necessarily = better.

In the case of a videogame character known for her already disproportionate anatomy, it is far better to remain consistent, internally consistent, then forsake that consistency for realism.

I agree completely. To me if the realism movement keeps pushing soon it just won't feel like you are playing Lara anymore. Is like dumping Sonic in a vat of red dye. It wouldn't work. If CD can't make things work within the constraints of Lara then they should just make a new character instead.


This new character model is simply the next stage in the continuous progression we've already seen, now utilizing the capabilities of modern technology to its fullest potential. The artist have been able to create a render that has a more natural and organic feel of a real human being (closer to ho an artist ould draw a woman in traditional media) far more successfully than what was done before.

Lara croft was intentionally created with an 'idealised' figure with a sort of embelished reality. Lara's shape has indeed evolved but always with the Lara image in mind. The new model is completely out in body from any of the other LC models and a break from the progression. As for this being 'far more successful' I don't think so, more like evolutionary miss-step.

I think Lara can have a top heavy body shape AND be realistic as a woman. Some girls do have large breasts. I think Alison Caroll represents very well what Lara would look like if Lara were real. I am not saying that Lara's breasts have to be really massive, just big enough to make her busty. Without that it is not really Lara.

Cristiavano
29th Jan 2011, 04:48
Sorry but I think both of the pics are terrible. The top one has quite bad render problems and the bottom one makes Lara look tomboyish.



I agree completely. To me if the realism movement keeps pushing soon it just won't feel like you are playing Lara anymore. Is like dumping Sonic in a vat of red dye. It wouldn't work. If CD can't make things work within the constraints of Lara then they should just make a new character instead.



Lara croft was intentionally created with an 'idealised' figure with a sort of embelished reality. Lara's shape has indeed evolved but always with the Lara image in mind. The new model is completely out in body from any of the other LC models and a break from the progression. As for this being 'far more successful' I don't think so, more like evolutionary miss-step.

I think Lara can have a top heavy body shape AND be realistic as a woman. Some girls do have large breasts. I think Alison Caroll represents very well what Lara would look like if Lara were real. I am not saying that Lara's breasts have to be really massive, just big enough to make her busty. Without that it is not really Lara.

the top one is supposed to have bad "render problems" in GIMP i put bump mapping in lighting settings xD

Cheese is nice.
29th Jan 2011, 04:51
I really like the reduction in breast size at least. I am a man and I hate huge breasts on tiny women, I think this direction is very good to go with. Lara is getting more and more real and I couldn't be happier. I just hope they make sure not to lose sight of the Lara essence which I'm afraid might be happening. But I'll be excited to play this game.

TrickyVein
29th Jan 2011, 13:42
I just hope they make sure not to lose sight of the Lara essence which I'm afraid might be happening. But I'll be excited to play this game.

It being a reboot, this may be exactly what is happening. :hmm:

Andy64
30th Jan 2011, 04:33
Losing the essense of Lara is exactly what is happening. As much as realism is a good, sacrificing the contunity is really really bad. I could never really have much respect for a Lara that dosn't have at least something of a lara shape.

Cheese is nice.
30th Jan 2011, 05:26
I think you guys are right, in a sense that is. I'm all for making her look a little more real, but she needs to remain somewhat reminescent of Lara. Plus I really DO NOT want to see her going all mushy. No siree.

TrickyVein
30th Jan 2011, 16:19
I agree.

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tombraideranniversary/images/image006.jpg

This is Lara.

Ruthless. Will let nothing and nobody get in her way.

AdobeArtist
30th Jan 2011, 16:53
I agree.

http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tombraideranniversary/images/image006.jpg

This is Lara.

Ruthless. Will let nothing and nobody get in her way.

You don't get a sense of that from the baner image? I mean that is an expression of pure determination right there. Her eyes are practically daring any man or god to even try and stand in her way.

dark7angel
30th Jan 2011, 19:23
You don't get a sense of that from the baner image? I mean that is an expression of pure determination right there. Her eyes are practically daring any man or god to even try and stand in her way.

I second that!!! :cool:

TrickyVein
30th Jan 2011, 20:46
Yeah, not so much.

Not getting that vibe.

Was really disappointed in Anniversary when Lara suddenly had pangs of regret over shooting someone.

Not interested in exploring the depth of Lara's character. You should really be looking beyond a video-game character if that's the kind of interaction you need.

All that being said, game-informer cover is good, but she's got a bit of a "deer caught in headlights" blank expression. Would appreciate up-front, aggressive Lara - more in keeping with her being murdering thief - more.

larafan25
31st Jan 2011, 00:43
The thing is, Lara was only ever a Murdering Thief in the actual game. The story did not show her like that. If this was the case then Lara should have always been on the run from the po po, not just in AOD (Something I never understood).

The expression on her face seems like nothing to me, simply because there is nothing to express, it seems numb, cold, she didn't come here to kill and try to survive, however she has to, and she will.

I think this willingness to survive will reflect in how she approaches treasure hunting, she is not willing to loose the treasure just as she is not willing to loose her life.

It would be hilarious to watch a cocky Lara totting guns and provoking enemies and then have her be killed, it would be an awkward embarrassment. Whereas now we have someone who keeps to herself the skill she has learned. She knows what she wants and she will stop at nothing, it's not something she needs to tell you. I think she fights with intelligence now.

Cheese is nice.
2nd Feb 2011, 06:52
My three complaints with Lara's new look are as follows.
1. I think she is waaaaay too banged up FOR THE COVER!!! I have no problem with her looking like this in game, but you have to clean up for pictures, dontcha know. :)
2. Her hair bothers me. She's got some phsyco layers and they make her look like a lion. That ain't cute. Sorry. I'm a hairdresser. ;)
3. To me, the cover on the magazine does not say "determination". It looks dead and expressionless. They tried to make her look like a model that was put through a blender before the shoot. She just looks blank. All I see is a cut up face of some girl who happens to be Lara. No determination at all.

Elliot Kane
2nd Feb 2011, 08:39
My honest first thought was that she looks like a MALE Manga character in that cover shot :D

BUT - the important point - this is all just art, really. As yet, we have absolutely no idea what she will look like in game.

Ants_27_
2nd Feb 2011, 09:11
3. To me, the cover on the magazine does not say "determination". It looks dead and expressionless. They tried to make her look like a model that was put through a blender before the shoot. She just looks blank. All I see is a cut up face of some girl who happens to be Lara. No determination at all.

Or another way to look at it is being the longer she's there the closer she is to insanity and possibly suicide if things generally are that bad. I'm going to be annoyed greatly if the game comes out and she doesn't change throughout the game... if she has the same emotional sanity as she does before going to the island then I'm sorry I probably won't even bother with it.

People might say that's sad, I call it being a writer. I don't play a game to look at virtual characters cause the fact is they never look 'sexy' and I play it to see the atmosphere and story. And it all comes under plot holes. Like I just hope to God (even though I don't believe) that she isn't going to come across the 'first' creature and automatically kill the damn thing the same way she does come the end of the game.:rolleyes:

Right, enough of me.:D

Flintmelody
2nd Feb 2011, 15:54
My three complaints with Lara's new look are as follows.
1. I think she is waaaaay too banged up FOR THE COVER!!! I have no problem with her looking like this in game, but you have to clean up for pictures, dontcha know. :)
2. Her hair bothers me. She's got some phsyco layers and they make her look like a lion. That ain't cute. Sorry. I'm a hairdresser. ;)
3. To me, the cover on the magazine does not say "determination". It looks dead and expressionless. They tried to make her look like a model that was put through a blender before the shoot. She just looks blank. All I see is a cut up face of some girl who happens to be Lara. No determination at all.

Agree completely with all of that. Clear they went for shock factor over capturing LC. Whoever came up with awful hairstyle? Just making her look a wreck for the sake of it. Would hate seeing pictures of battered model or celebrities on the front of a newspaper and kind of get that same cringe feeling seeing the banner. Add the MAJOR body shape problems with Lara and it ain't at all great thus far.


My honest first thought was that she looks like a MALE Manga character in that cover shot :D

Similar to my first thought too. She is one of the first and biggest female icons of gaming so to have her looking so masculine is terrible. Any picture where you could initially mistake LC for a boy is no good. To me it is just so out of tune with Lara.

AdobeArtist
2nd Feb 2011, 16:10
Agree completely with all of that. Clear they went for shock factor over capturing LC. Whoever came up with awful hairstyle? Just making her look a wreck for the sake of it. Would hate seeing pictures of battered model or celebrities on the front of a newspaper and kind of get that same cringe feeling seeing this. Add the MAJOR body shape problems with Lara and it ain't at all great thus far.

So they gave her that wrecked appearance just for the hell of it? The context of the story wouldn't have any bearing what so ever in the state of her appearance? Really?

As for the whole body remark, do people really want an image based on outdated technology that reflects unrealistic standards? That's the kind of thinking that will hold the series back and have it left behind in the wake of other games with better human representations. Standards have changed since 1996, and the series must keep up with it to survive.


Similar to my first thought too. She is one of the first and biggest female icons of gaming so to have her looking so masculine is terrible. Any picture where you could initially mistake LC for a boy is no good. To me it is just so out of tune with Lara.

While the degree of her attractiveness can be considered subjective (and most of which I disagree with when some have called her "ugly"), to actully say this looks masculine is just a massive facepalm. I have never seen a man with eyes, and especially not lips like that. That is a very feminine face, just the tone of it reflects the horrers of her ordeal. A lot of people here seem to be confusing expression and tone with actual facial features.

QiX
2nd Feb 2011, 16:10
My honest first thought was that she looks like a MALE Manga character in that cover shot :D


Similar to my first thought too. She is one of the first and biggest female icons of gaming so to have her looking so masculine is terrible. Any picture where you could initially mistake LC for a boy is no good. To me it is just so out of tune with Lara.

Manga characters and Justin Bieber are SOOOO far from my parameters for a manly figure. What's up with you guys? If a girl washes off all her makeup and gets hurt and dirty she automatically becomes a man?

Cristiavano
2nd Feb 2011, 21:20
My three complaints with Lara's new look are as follows.
1. I think she is waaaaay too banged up FOR THE COVER!!! I have no problem with her looking like this in game, but you have to clean up for pictures, dontcha know. :)
2. Her hair bothers me. She's got some phsyco layers and they make her look like a lion. That ain't cute. Sorry. I'm a hairdresser. ;)
3. To me, the cover on the magazine does not say "determination". It looks dead and expressionless. They tried to make her look like a model that was put through a blender before the shoot. She just looks blank. All I see is a cut up face of some girl who happens to be Lara. No determination at all.

oh exciting hairdresser and yeah i've been studying the render of lara on the game informer magazine and yeah it really has NO expression she just looking at a camera with that facial expression they could have done something like this
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tombraideranniversary/images/image006.jpg

same exact pose with one of those monster heads(ps im talking about copying the pose with her hair down in a render) and they could have put lara on a cliff at night with her hair in the air, lightening, and waves crashing on a wave. Yeah it looks good in my head but people won't understand what i mean ill have to show them using a 3d program(which are a pain to me :D)

Elliot Kane
2nd Feb 2011, 21:48
Manga characters and Justin Bieber are SOOOO far from my parameters for a manly figure. What's up with you guys? If a girl washes off all her makeup and gets hurt and dirty she automatically becomes a man?

Actually, my main point was that so many male Manga characters look like girls.

As I've already noted, we have yet to see any in-game footage at all, so we don't really know what she's going to look like in game.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I'm not sure this was entirely my point. While it's true that most Manga male characters do strongly resemble woman, Lara's jawline is a bit heavy for a woman in that picture...

Katie_Fleming
2nd Feb 2011, 22:16
Remember though, the cover isn't what she'll look like in-game. The cover was the work of 3 studios, specifically for marketing. If you look at the screenshots in-game she looks nothing like the Game Informer cover :wave:

Cristiavano
3rd Feb 2011, 20:59
Remember though, the cover isn't what she'll look like in-game. The cover was the work of 3 studios, specifically for marketing. If you look at the screenshots in-game she looks nothing like the Game Informer cover :wave:

thats what i don't like a bit about marketing they DECIEVE you a bit. Like some of the TR Underworld trailers looked awesome like the doppleganger blowing up Lara's house one but you didn't see that ingame.(hehe i don't own the game but i did research) anyway point is "looks can be decieving" its whats in her virtual heart that counts LOL this doens't make any sense

Tuneit
7th Feb 2011, 23:56
thats what i don't like a bit about marketing they DECIEVE you a bit. Like some of the TR Underworld trailers looked awesome like the doppleganger blowing up Lara's house one but you didn't see that ingame.

That my dearest friend, is called a Teaser Trailer.

Ranger275
8th Feb 2011, 04:11
Do we really care here...... Or are we all just very happy to do it again with Ms. Croft. (You can go there but thats not what I'm talking about.) This game will look better then the last. Tech alone will make sure that happen. I do think the new younger Lara is looks great and even if they dont get "Just like the teaser" I will still love her!

mr croft lopez
8th Feb 2011, 14:12
maybe eidos can present 3 pics of lara and have us fans vote.

Cristiavano
8th Feb 2011, 21:12
Do we really care here...... Or are we all just very happy to do it again with Ms. Croft. (You can go there but thats not what I'm talking about.) This game will look better then the last. Tech alone will make sure that happen. I do think the new younger Lara is looks great and even if they dont get "Just like the teaser" I will still love her!

i love her no matter what but honestly they should stick with one look and age her through out that look i really wish they had a hint of underworld looks in this game. just a hint. and her eyes confuse me they look kinda greenish to me :/ anyway lara is pretty no matter what even with a cut

Pulse
9th Feb 2011, 00:01
Her eyes look like they always have, but they did round out her face and make her mouth and nose more proportional. Which is good because I find Underworld's Lara to look rather ugly with her too small nose.

Cristiavano
9th Feb 2011, 00:37
Her eyes look like they always have, but they did round out her face and make her mouth and nose more proportional. Which is good because I find Underworld's Lara to look rather ugly with her too small nose.

i did too a bit but underworld lara looked good at certain angles so i can't wait to see this new laras bad angle

Tuneit
11th Feb 2011, 00:23
maybe eidos can present 3 pics of lara and have us fans vote.

God no!

i love her no matter what but honestly they should stick with one look and age

Well, this game is said to be the very beginning of the great adventures of Tomb Raider.

So the fact that Lara is younger makes sense.

Cristiavano
11th Feb 2011, 20:58
God no!


Well, this game is said to be the very beginning of the great adventures of Tomb Raider.

So the fact that Lara is younger makes sense.

ouch why'd i say age anyway i change my mind like every day or so on the game but anyway blah.

Cheese is nice.
15th Feb 2011, 05:44
oh exciting hairdresser and yeah i've been studying the render of lara on the game informer magazine and yeah it really has NO expression she just looking at a camera with that facial expression they could have done something like this
http://www.tombraiderchronicles.com/tombraideranniversary/images/image006.jpg

same exact pose with one of those monster heads(ps im talking about copying the pose with her hair down in a render) and they could have put lara on a cliff at night with her hair in the air, lightening, and waves crashing on a wave. Yeah it looks good in my head but people won't understand what i mean ill have to show them using a 3d program(which are a pain to me :D)
That's not sarcasm on the hairdressing comment is it? :eek: But I'd love to see your idea, that is if you can bear the pain. haha. :lmao:

Actually, my main point was that so many male Manga characters look like girls.

As I've already noted, we have yet to see any in-game footage at all, so we don't really know what she's going to look like in game.

EDIT: Thinking about it, I'm not sure this was entirely my point. While it's true that most Manga male characters do strongly resemble woman, Lara's jawline is a bit heavy for a woman in that picture...

Ha. Elliot. :D And I agree. But they always change up the face to shut up the fans anyway. Remember the Underworld fiasco?

Cristiavano
15th Feb 2011, 12:44
I really like the reduction in breast size at least. I am a man and I hate huge breasts on tiny women, I think this direction is very good to go with. Lara is getting more and more real and I couldn't be happier. I just hope they make sure not to lose sight of the Lara essence which I'm afraid might be happening. But I'll be excited to play this game.

lots of women have huge breasts but i don't really care about the breasts anymore i just hope this won't be another "Angel of Darkness"

Lara in Tomb Raider IX: My legs feel stronger now!

Nocharity
21st Feb 2011, 15:44
She's supposed to be a young Lara, right? Late teens maybe?

I guess that's why her features seem so... soft? I'm not sure that's the right word but, whatever.

If this reboot becomes a new series, I hope they make this new Lara grow up a little for future installments, I'm not sure if I can reconsile a teenage Lara doing the things that original Lara used to do.

Hoodedclaw
21st Feb 2011, 16:26
Hi...

I do like ur Lara image but i think that it makes her look like TRU lara.

I think i would stick with the new 1 but it is really gd. xxx

Cristiavano
21st Feb 2011, 19:37
Hi...

I do like ur Lara image but i think that it makes her look like TRU lara.

I think i would stick with the new 1 but it is really gd. xxx

it is tru lara i just added blood to her face

Charlie.T.Raider
24th Feb 2011, 01:57
If they had just based her look on TRL/TRA Lara then she would have looked better. I can't reconcile this new image to Lara at all but that is just one pic and so maybe the trailers will reassure me.

Rhanyan
29th Mar 2011, 19:23
She looks exotic and sensual. Her eyes are filled with fiery passion and determination.

She also looks hurt. I must save her.

AdobeArtist
29th Mar 2011, 21:33
She looks exotic and sensual. Her eyes are filled with fiery passion and determination.

She also looks hurt. I must save her.

YES!! Somebody else who sees it too. I just can't beleive the number of "vacant stare" comments I've seen :scratch:

WinterSoldierLTE
29th Mar 2011, 22:24
That's not a vacant stare. It's the 1,000 Yard Stare. The lights are on, and someone IS home, they're just not answering the door at the moment is all.

Denis..
30th Mar 2011, 09:17
That's not a vacant stare. It's the 1,000 Yard Stare. The lights are on, and someone IS home, they're just not answering the door at the moment is all.

i like that lara now looks boylish on her face, she kinda looks like me lol!

u think it's a good idea though to make her so victim/hunted looking in the game?
im curious..

AdobeArtist
30th Mar 2011, 11:18
The victim/hunted look is a reflection of the context of the game. Just like the glamorous look in the Tokyo level of Legend was a reflection of that context.

This won't be a permanent image as she'll move past that afterwards.

And "tomboyish"? Is that merely because she's all dirty and grimy here? If that's the case, it's not a look by choice, but by circumstance.

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Mar 2011, 22:09
i like that lara now looks boylish on her face, she kinda looks like me lol!

u think it's a good idea though to make her so victim/hunted looking in the game?
im curious..

Well I'll not lie, her looks have never really been that big of a deal to me before, and now is no different. I would love to voice an opinion on the matter in the context of the game, yeah, but I feel I don't know enough about the storyline and/or enviornments within it to say "yay" or "nay". Once it's come out and I've had a sitdown or two with it, yeah, I'll give an opinion, but until then I'm going to try and not get too involved with speculation or assuming I know what's what, much fun as it may be. But that is definately the 1,000 yard stare, and there's only 1 way to get that. And in that matter, then yeah, her looking victimized, hunted, beat up, wounded, whatever you want to call it fits perfectly and is realistic in the sense that more then likely she wouldn't be walking away w/o a few smudges on her at the least.

Andy64
31st Mar 2011, 00:16
i like that lara now looks boylish on her face

I REALLY hate that she looks boyish. Lara's cheek-bone structure in the banner is awful.

Lara is a great bastion for femininity in the games industry. Part of her appeal is that she uncompromising in her feminine nature from her attitude to her clothes. She is completely different to the sea of male gaming heroes and to the average stereotype of an archeologist or explorer. Why lose what is unique about her and push her into a saturated sea? A masculine Lara is not true to her intended vision, not true to who Lara is as a person. For me an over-masculinised Lara would be plain incorrect. I don't have any problem with her stare though.

LC is Me
31st Mar 2011, 02:33
I REALLY hate that she looks boyish. Lara's cheek-bone structure in the banner is awful.

Lara is a great bastion for femininity in the games industry. Part of her appeal is that she uncompromising in her feminine nature from her attitude to her clothes. She is completely different to the sea of male gaming heroes and to the average stereotype of an archeologist or explorer. Why lose what is unique about her and push her into a saturated sea? A masculine Lara is not true to her intended vision, not true to who Lara is as a person. For me an over-masculinised Lara would be plain incorrect. I don't have any problem with her stare though.

So you can't be toned/physically in shape and feminine at the same time?

AdobeArtist
31st Mar 2011, 03:45
So you can't be toned/physically in shape and feminine at the same time?

Well said LC, very well said. Lara's features are well defined, that of an athletic woman, but still very feminine in her features.

QiX
31st Mar 2011, 04:14
Now seriously. The boy that first comes to your mind when you see Lara's pic should go immediately to an urologist and check his hormones. Anyone with functional testicles must not resemble Lara Croft :cool:

AdobeArtist
31st Mar 2011, 04:31
Now seriously. The boy that first comes to your mind when you see Lara's pic should go immediately to an urologist and check his hormones. Anyone with functional testicles must not resemble Lara Croft :cool:

:lmao::lmao:

You put it better than any of us. Now PLEASE can we put this "boyish look" to rest already.

:nut::nut:

Denis..
31st Mar 2011, 04:40
Now seriously. The boy that first comes to your mind when you see Lara's pic should go immediately to an urologist and check his hormones. Anyone with functional testicles must not resemble Lara Croft :cool:

now seriously,
she is just a game character and everyone has his own tastes and likes!

i like her boylish face not coz she looks like me but coz now she has a difference from all the other game female characters!

she is sexy, but she is not trying to look sexy and that's the best type of women!
and before u ask yes im gay and it doesn't mean that i look like a woman imo :rasp:

QiX
31st Mar 2011, 04:50
Allow me to correct you:


she is sexy, because she is not trying to look sexy...

When they quitted trying to make her look sexy they acomplished to make her sexier than ever before.

Andy64
31st Mar 2011, 10:24
Now PLEASE can we put this "boyish look" to rest already.

Look at how CD handled feedback on boss battles after Legend. A few people gave feedback saying there were too many so then CD gave us none in TRU which was more silly. If the seeded idea of a more masculine Lara grows then CD may continue it and before we know it Lara ends up with a defeminised look like Faith Conners or an all out man look like Nathan Drake. Best we air our objection to it now before it can go that far. Lara is more unique if she is doesn't get too masculinised.

When someone called Denis says 'her face looks like mine' then that has to ring alarm bells. The idea of the 'boyish look' for Lara should be put to rest already ... in the minds of the CD designers.

I did remember your quote from the questionare thread which I liked.

If there is one thing I think is essential to retain from her old days, is wearing dresses, like in Tokyo and the Opera House.

I want Lara wearing dresses again too. If that is to happen Lara needs to be kept feminine. If she is allowed slip too much towards a tomboy image then dresses become implausible.

KasigiYabuSama
2nd Apr 2011, 04:12
I went on a wild rant in the FAQ thread before I saw this one, but though I'm in general agreement that CD should take care not to turn Lara into a completely different character, I've mellowed out a tad since the initial shock when I first saw the cover image and the screenshots. Since these are also preliminary images, we should assume they're not final and that significant tweakage will occur between now and release. However, comma,

My take: The cover shot (at the top of this) is great in terms of realism, but it just doesn't look like Lara, even allowing for the fact that this is set earlier in her life. I'm warming in a big way to the idea of an episode from her younger years, incidentally, particularly when I recall that the training levels in Last Revelation (Lara at 16,) were an immediately-interesting story variant. I just don't want to play a character whose skills are lame for inexperience, though I'm not particularly worried about that. But if I'm playing Tomb Raider, I want the main character to be Lara Croft, not someone else. This cover shot and screen shots do not look like her at all, facially or physically, even allowing for a younger age.

My other criticism of the new images is that she's been made too masculine (if you're curious you can read my more detailed soapboxing on FAQ thread page #3.) The masculinity thing is mostly evident in the screenshots. The cover image above does have a tomboyish quality, but it's plenty feminine (my beef is that it looks like Hilary Swank, not Lara Croft. Kudos to the obvious skill of the 3D artists, but it's a completely different person, even allowing for age.) In the screenshots her body is as significantly different as her face - again even if you allow for a younger age, and even in comparison to the Lara of Legend and Anniversary, much less the earlier versions. She's much more masculine - too much, IMO.

Boob size is not so much a point of contention, but rather the hip-waist ratio. Boob size would plausibly change with age, though not if this younger Lara is past her teens. On the other hand, hip-waist ratio generally wouldn't change with age, assuming it's the same person (hem-ahem!) and assuming consistent physical athleticism as she gets older. But here we've got a supposedly younger Lara who's virtually straight as a tree trunk from ribcage to feet? :scratch:

So I concur with some of the posts above, that what could be driving some of the rendering choices is not a quest for "realism," but rather conformity to the stylistic fads of contemporary media (or: timidity in the face of the circular "PC" fad's comically neo-Medieval view of human sexual mores.) We can only hope that more courageous heads will prevail and the result will look at least a little more like the Lara we know and love.

/soapbox
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QiX
2nd Apr 2011, 08:30
Adding my two cents: I don't see Hilary Swank in the cover picture, her face has something from Jessica Biel IMO, but in a more brunette tone. In a sexiness scale she scores higher than Hilary Swank and Jessica Biel together though. To my taste she does look like Lara, but more than that, she looks like what Lara should have always looked before. She has the same facial proportions and overall shape but less cartoony. This Lara from the cover art is what every Lara before wanted to be.

Cartoony is also what I call the body proportions you want to return. The classic hip-waist ratio were somewhat Jessica Rabbit to my taste. It's sexy for a cartoon figure, but it doesn't work in a realistic anatomic conception. I love the proportions in the full body render, a bit more waist but far from 'square'. She does have curves, she's just doesn't look like she's about to break in the half spine.

I don't see her tomboyish at all, with all the mud and blood stains we still see a girl there, and a very attractive one. In a survival context the GI cover is the most fitting possible, no one should expect her to be in the Vogue magazine, or rather in Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition. The concept art shown so far is simply flawless. In the other hand I'm not yet happy with the screenshots, I trully hope they improve the in-game model for it makes justice to the artwork.

AdobeArtist
2nd Apr 2011, 14:13
THANK YOU QIX!! You echo my sentiments exactly. I was saying this right when the images were revealed, that when you closely examine the new face, it has the basic foundation of eyes and lips, but then applied to a more anatomically detailed facial structure.

The new Lara only seems to "not be Lara" IF you are rigidly adhering to the outdated and unrealistic standards of the older models. But we can't cling to those antiquated standards if the character is to progress and rmain relevant to modern gaming. So basically this IS Lara, as she would have always been, had the technology been capable of rendering realistic human features 14 years ago.

This also goes for the overall body proportions. If you look back, and I'll even post my wallpaper below that gives us an accurate comparison, you can see how ridiculous the waist/hip ratios used to be. "Jessica Rabbit" is a pretty apt comparison to Lara's previous bodies, and that just doesn't hold up to modern standards of realism.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/adobeartist/lara/Lara_wallpaper004_preview.jpg

And again, as for the "tomboy" debate, I just can't see how people can claim this. These are very attractive feminine features. Yes one can say they are strong and well defined, but that's because Lara has an overall athletic physique and countenance. Plenty of athletic women out there aren't mistaken for guys. On closer examination, you can see how her features has that just right blance between chiseled and soft graceful curvature in the cheeks and jawline.

It certainly shouldn't be because of the mud and grime that we call her a tomboy. Clear all that away and nobody would think she's a tomboy. Understand that tomboy is deliberate choice in image to emulate masculinity, and Lara's appearance of down and dirty toughness, in what we see in the banner image, is a reflection of her context. In other words, it's not her choice, it's her circumstance, that she projects this image we're seeing up above.

And as far as celebrity comparisons go, I'm not seeing Hilary Swank or Jessica Beil. I don't know what celebrity I would see in that face if any at all. I just see Lara from the old games transitioned into a fully realized human being :) :)

Error96_
3rd Apr 2011, 03:32
The new Lara only seems to "not be Lara" IF you are rigidly adhering to the outdated and unrealistic standards of the older models. But we can't cling to those antiquated standards if the character is to progress and main relevant to modern gaming. So basically this IS Lara, as she would have always been, had the technology been capable of rendering realistic human features 14 years ago.

The this IS Lara... statement has me cringing. The new Lara appears NOT to be Lara if you look at any LC model over the last eleven years. Sure if you had taken todays political correctness back to the 90's then she would have ended up different. Take the tech alone then the target image and marketing would have probably still pushed her near to the Lara we got. Is such a hypothetical arguement anyway and taking tech back could mean Lara Croft may have never come to be (dread the thought). She did though and was designed as shown in all but the right image of your wallpaper.

The reason the TR series hasn't been on form recently is problems with the games rather than Lara. AOD had dreadful controls, TRL was too short and linear and TRU had a story that didn't hold together and weak level design. Lara's iconic and recogniseable image has done alot to save the series when rival games often toped TR games. Updating Lara is fine but bulldozing her till you have lost half of her sure isn't.


If you look back, and I'll even post my wallpaper below that gives us an accurate comparison, you can see how ridiculous the waist/hip ratios used to be. "Jessica Rabbit" is a pretty apt comparison to Lara's previous bodies, and that just doesn't hold up to modern standards of realism.

I don't have any problems with them shrinking Lara breasts A BIT to fit her younger self and more realism but this isn't a decrease to fit that. It is a decrease to a completely different person with a completely different body shape. Looking at adobe's wallpaper and taking general body shapes you see a row of Lara's with a top heavy silhouette and just the last one without. She don't have to be Jessica Rabbit but she needs a top heavy figure to be Lara. The hip/waist ratio is too far out in this model. At least the screenshots show a Lara that looks a bit better.


It certainly shouldn't be because of the mud and grime that we call her a tomboy. Clear all that away and nobody would think she's a tomboy. Understand that tomboy is deliberate choice in image to emulate masculinity, and Lara's appearance of down and dirty toughness, in what we see in the banner image, is a reflection of her context.

It ain't the grit. The hairstyle is masculine, the chin-line is masculine and the outfit is masculine. The concept art has deliberately gone so boyish with trying to fit the context that it has ended up missing capturing Lara.


We can only hope that more courageous heads will prevail and the result will look at least a little more like the Lara we know and love.

I do hope so too.

KasigiYabuSama
3rd Apr 2011, 03:35
Hmm, now that you put them side by side, her face isn't so horribly off the mark, but there's definitely a more exotic set of facial features that aren't present in the new version. It's mostly in the eyebrows (granted they're a little obscured by hair in this render,) but also in the narrowness of her face in previous versions. On that I can grant some suspension of disbelief because a younger woman could have a more full-looking face than an older one. But then again we're not talking about a huge age difference here either, maybe ten years or so? Also, people's faces just as often tend to get wider with age rather than narrower. 'Could just be the angle she's positioned in here too.

On the hip-waist thing, you inescapably get into the wider debate between "realism" and "fiction." Yes, the new body definitely looks more "realistic" than the thoroughly-unrealistic previous ones, but fiction is about idealization, not journalism. YMMV, but as a TR fan I don't want Lara to look like an ordinary person.

Heroism is all about larger-than-life. and please, no potshots about bust size - I'm talking about a character's overall presence. Exaggeration is essential to fiction; to a quasi-superhero, doubly so. Unless they started out that way, the more "real" a game character gets, the more that "stage presence" is diminished. I would argue that Lara has always been and always should be just a bit over-the-top, in terms of her abilities, her attitudes, her personality, and her appearance. That's the lifeblood of fictional heroism: a larger-than-life persona. Go read one of Lee Child's Jack Reacher novels. (I recommend "Gone Tomorrow" as a good place to start. :cool:) To the degree to which this latest Lara looks "ordinary" rather than somewhat exaggerated, the more lackluster her presence as the game's heroine IMO.

Look again at adobeARTIST's wallpaper from that perspective - there're five stylized heroines, and a stock character from a TV movie. There's such a thing as too much realism, and "Jessica-Rabbit-cartoonish" is a hollow criticism - just ask Frank Miller (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Xog8o7QXmRE/TKDJVPUq_-I/AAAAAAAAACg/1cfzGy9YhlU/s1600/sin_city_gail.jpg).
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QiX
3rd Apr 2011, 05:25
Excuse me but I'll have to abandon the thread for a while. I just realised my own opinion on the matter is not valid until I read a handful of novels to base my argumentation on. Off to the library, be back in a couple days :scratch:

AdobeArtist
3rd Apr 2011, 06:33
The this IS Lara... statement has me cringing. The new Lara appears NOT to be Lara if you look at any LC model over the last eleven years.



But that is exactly the problem. Those 11 year old models are exactly that... eleven years out of date. If you're going to hold a character to such obsolete standards, you're holding back their relevance to modern times. This is stagnation, which is far more detrimental to the progressive development of a series than linearity, game length, or level design.

This has nothing to do with political correctness either. The very first Lara model is a product of such outdated tech, that limited how realistically and detailed her anatomy could be. And don't forget, this isn't like Mario or Ratchet & Clank games. Lara wasn't supposed to be a cartoon, these games were always meant to be a representation of a real human character. They were just limited in how the tech could depict said person.

But that limitation no longer exists, so rendering a character as if it still is 1996 is tantamount to career suicide. It's imperative to evolve the design and make it a creation of modern tech. That means the old unreastic facial structure can't stll be used, not when there's potential to create proper human features.

And like I said before, when you see how they took the basic eye and lip design, and applied that to correct facial proportions, this IS Lara as a fully realized human being. It's what they were striving for 14 years ago but could never fully realize because it just wasn't possible then.





It ain't the grit. The hairstyle is masculine, the chin-line is masculine and the outfit is masculine. The concept art has deliberately gone so boyish with trying to fit the context that it has ended up missing capturing Lara.



* the chin masculine?? No way, its as feminine as her cheeks and jawline.

* the outfit is just a modernized reimagining of the original. Just look at the two side by side, the new one takes the basic color & pattern theme and adds more fabric and design detail, from the over simplified outfit that was closer to old style comic book costumes of the 60s.

* the hair is not a style choice of Lara, it's a result of circumstance. She's stranded in savage wilderness, totally exposed to the elements and deteriorating conditions. So of course her hair will be out of her control, as it gets messed up and disorderly. She doesn't exactly have the opportunity to clean and style it according to some womanly design.

Tomboy is when a look is deliberate, but that's not the case here. You have to factor in the context.

KasigiYabuSama
4th Apr 2011, 02:59
But that is exactly the problem. Those 11 year old models are exactly that... eleven years out of date. If you're going to hold a character to such obsolete standards, you're holding back their relevance to modern times. This is stagnation, which is far more detrimental to the progressive development of a series than linearity, game length, or level design.

This has nothing to do with political correctness either.

But...your entire preceding paragraph is talking specifically about "political correctness," which, to recap, has always been a comical circular-argument-in-terms. It begs the question: "Who gets to define 'correct'?" The answer, IOW: "I am correct because I said so!" :D So...who gets to define what is "relevant," what represents "stagnation" or "progressive development?" There is a stunning bit of presumption that's always resided at the core of the whole "PC" cult, which is why it's so unintentionally hilarious.
But I digress.


The very first Lara model is a product of such outdated tech, that limited how realistically and detailed her anatomy could be. And don't forget, this isn't like Mario or Ratchet & Clank games. Lara wasn't supposed to be a cartoon, these games were always meant to be a representation of a real human character. They were just limited in how the tech could depict said person.

But that limitation no longer exists, so rendering a character as if it still is 1996 is tantamount to career suicide. It's imperative to evolve the design and make it a creation of modern tech. That means the old unreastic facial structure can't stll be used, not when there's potential to create proper human features.

And like I said before, when you see how they took the basic eye and lip design, and applied that to correct facial proportions, this IS Lara as a fully realized human being. It's what they were striving for 14 years ago but could never fully realize because it just wasn't possible then.

You're sidestepping one critical fact: All of the technical advancements that have been created in the fifteen years since TR1 relate to: shape resolution, textures/mats and atmospheric detail. Which means current technology makes it easier, not harder, to create a model that more closely resembles the persona of the original character.

I don't think anyone here is saying that present state-of-the-art resolution and mat capabilities should be used to create a highly-detailed rendering of... a 230 polygon character. That's just silly. My argument, and I think those of others here, is that just because present-day technology makes creating a realistic Hilary Swank or Claire Danes (the face in Legend, IMO,) lookalike possible, doesn't mean that CD should. There's nothing "unrealistic" about the early facial structure except poor resolution. I have met women who look remarkably similar to the very first Lara figure at the left of the wallpaper. Granted, the in-game character was significantly blockier than the cover characters, but that again is a function of resolution, not general appearance.

The technical limitations of the late '90s certainly were a factor in defining the angular look of the early Lara versions, and whether she was intended to be a representation of an ordinary person or a larger-than-life heroine is a matter that only Toby Gard can answer. Like it or not, that original look, whatever its cause, became Lara Croft's identity. It is a simple, inescapable fact that the most direct individuating aspect of a human being is visual appearance - physical appearance. The way you look is integral to your identity. It's how we recognize one another. Lara Croft, whether by design or by the limitations of media or by a combination of them, became a particular identity as a result, with a corresponding physical appearance.

Which brings us, full circle, back to my original point: If you decide that "the earlier Lara was a cartoonish caricature necessitated by limited technology" and that "now we can make her look like she should have looked from the start," you're still engaged in turning a particular character into a completely different one. It may be a brilliantly designed and rendered one, but it's still: someone else.

The Croft character's very essence is a product of technology, and her appearance - therefore her entire persona - was shaped in part by those early technological limitations. The task of CD, if they want to remain true to the franchise's essence, should be to use the latest technology to create the most detailed and realistic rendering possible... of the woman whose distinct visual identity, for whatever reason, emerged as Lara Croft. If you ditch the original look of a character for the sake of some narrow, passing political-cultural trend, you have still created... a completely different character, no matter what you might name her. It is also a fact that the Lara Croft persona has offended the bizarre "PC"-"Moral Majority" fusion from virtually the day TR1 hit the shelves, and will likely continue to offend the easily-offended no matter what she looks like. I don't think the people at CD - or Eidos - have ever been hamstrung by that weirdness, thankfully.

As for her clothing and hair, I agree with you. Those are incidental and dependent on circumstance. When I look at the cover image and assume the storyline of Lara being stranded for an extended period, I can imagine that hairdo being the result of her taking a sharp rock and hacking away at it herself, just to get it out of her way.

Clothes are interchangable too, though to an extent a kind of "uniform" helps retain a character's feel, unrealistic as that would be in real life. Maybe at some point in this game she'll get annoyed with the tightness of the material on her quads and calves and just hack the pant legs off too - creating her later, iconic short-shorts. If I'm slogging through a humid jungle, I don't want long pants, no matter how vulnerable shorts would make my legs to minor cuts and vermin.

Ach - another book. That's all for now. Thanks for the hearty debate - this never gets old. :cool:
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QiX
4th Apr 2011, 04:48
Ok, I agree when you say about this larger than life persona in the realm of personality traits, but admit it: having the waist-hip ratio of an ant queen doesn't help here at all, except for your personal taste for a vintage silhouette. This is the most beaten comic book cliché, women in a hourglass contour, men in an inversed triangle, this is how superheroes are drawn for near one century. It's a cliché, dull and outdated. In a video game it doesn't add to the story in terms of suspension of disbelief, au contraire. Lara was becoming a walking doll, only the old fans seem pleased by the sight of her figure, and, let's admit it, these old fans are getting old and dying (no offense meant here, I'm myself included among these dying old fans ;))

One point for the need of renewing Lara's physical appearance then: she is becoming cartoony (yes, a Jessica Rabbit. I insist on the comparison) and loosing appeal. But there's a paradox on her evolution: while her silhouette maintained the cartoony proportions, the textures are evolving towards photographic realism. For internal coherence would you support cell shaded games from now on, * la Borderlands or Prince of Persia? Or even reducing the colours to a 256 graduated RGB palette, like the Sin City poster you linked to Frank Miller's name? Personally I love Frank Miller both as comic book artist or film director. And while his drawing is highly stylised I don't think he would endorse the palette in any of the versions of Lara. For a cartoony Lara I would choose TRL model with 8 bit colour range or less cell shaded, making something near Frank Miller's version of The Spirit, my favourite film on his career.

As for Lara is a different person now I wholeheartedly disagree, she's depicted differently now, for aesthetic choices. See the evolution in the timeline of any superhero, they change all the time, even simultaneous versions of them differ due to different artists drawing them. Even in one only magazine, oftenly the front cover looks different than the same hero on the second page. Times are a changin', You don't see the Batman from the sixties or Superman from the fourties anywhere today, why freeze Lara in her old days image then. Grow up guys, it's not a big issue. You're just being cranky now.

Natla
4th Apr 2011, 06:16
these old fans are getting old and dying

I'm not :)

Great thread though. It's all very interesting. I think the 'new' Lara looks like Lara and I'm personally happy that she looks like a tomboy whose escaped from a bukkake video. However I am sick of the constant reboots. Will it really boost sales or is it just neophilia for the sake of it? Or is it a sneaky/diplomatic way to go back to the Core Lara without offending Crystal Dynamics fans?

Andy64
4th Apr 2011, 13:28
Lara was becoming a walking doll, only the old fans seem pleased by the sight of her figure, and, let's admit it, these old fans are getting old and dying (no offense meant here, I'm myself included among these dying old fans ;))

Us old skoolers certainly are not gone yet. It's a good thing anyway that a series has so many fans who been kept interested in Lara for so very many years.

Nobody has said they want Jessica Rabbit. Just that she should have large breasts and a larger breast measurement than hip measurement. If Lara is truely what they want to make then that shouldn't be a problem for CD to make. They can do that with realism and high resolution detail. If they want to make a completly different hero then they should, just not with Lara's name. The question is not if Lara shape will be changed from her classic figure to make her more realistic because even I know it will. It is if the scale of the change is leaves her shape plausable as Lara or not. In the crudest terms would you notice the large size of her breasts if you met her.


Grow up guys, it's not a big issue. You're just being cranky now.

Leting Lara become Lara in nothing but name would be a disaster. Have to try and save as much of her as we can while the time frame to do it still exsists. After the next couple of games we have to try keep some of the girl we love still there in the end.


I think the 'new' Lara looks like Lara and I'm personally happy that she looks like a tomboy whose escaped from a bukkake video.

I don't know what to say to that one:eek:.

WinterSoldierLTE
4th Apr 2011, 21:37
Yeah I only know of one Bukkake, and I hope beyond all doubt that you're not reffering to that.

LC is Me
5th Apr 2011, 00:59
I don't know what to say to that one:eek:.

I don't know if I should laugh or barf in my mouth.
=x

Lets just pretend Natla is referring to the pouring of UDON.
^_________________________________^

Natla
5th Apr 2011, 06:11
Lara isn't reknowned for her cooking skills. I'm sure if she tried to make ...

http://0.tqn.com/d/japanesefood/1/I/x/Z/bukkakeudonpicture.jpg
http://japanesefood.about.com/od/udon/r/bukkakeudon.htm

... she'd end up getting all dirty.

QiX
5th Apr 2011, 07:13
I'm not :)

Great thread though. It's all very interesting. I think the 'new' Lara looks like Lara and I'm personally happy that she looks like a tomboy whose escaped from a bukkake video. However I am sick of the constant reboots. Will it really boost sales or is it just neophilia for the sake of it? Or is it a sneaky/diplomatic way to go back to the Core Lara without offending Crystal Dynamics fans?


Us old skoolers certainly are not gone yet. It's a good thing anyway that a series has so many fans who been kept interested in Lara for so very many years.

Nobody has said they want Jessica Rabbit. Just that she should have large breasts and a larger breast measurement than hip measurement. If Lara is truely what they want to make then that shouldn't be a problem for CD to make. They can do that with realism and high resolution detail. If they want to make a completly different hero then they should, just not with Lara's name. The question is not if Lara shape will be changed from her classic figure to make her more realistic because even I know it will. It is if the scale of the change is leaves her shape plausable as Lara or not. In the crudest terms would you notice the large size of her breasts if you met her.

Leting Lara become Lara in nothing but name would be a disaster. Have to try and save as much of her as we can while the time frame to do it still exsists. After the next couple of games we have to try keep some of the girl we love still there in the end.

Don't take my words too literally: I used 'getting old and dying' meaning decreasing in number. When Legend was released 100% of the fans where from the Core age, one trilogy and one spin-off later we can say Crystal has built a fanbase of their own. So the number of fans who didn't ever play any of the Core games is irreversibly increasing now, while dinosaurs like us are becoming more of a small niche among the total fanbase.

What I say is dead for real is Core's Lara and her Jessica Rabbit shape, these are gone for good and no whining in the world will bring them back. Crystal makes the decisions now, and apart from a few ups and downs I must say they're doing an excellent job for my taste. Being an old fan doesn't imply being hermetically sealed against changes. Even if I love the series since 1998 I admit Crystal Dynamics proved so far capable enough to make me a happy dinosaur. :D

BigBoss
5th Apr 2011, 08:07
Leting Lara become Lara in nothing but name would be a disaster. Have to try and save as much of her as we can while the time frame to do it still exsists. After the next couple of games we have to try keep some of the girl we love still there in the end.

And in this whole discussion, 10% is on her overall figure and face and 90% is that she needs bigger T and A. Anyone arguing against the idea that the original games were not going off sexploitation and were instead trying to "design/realize her as much as consoles would allow" is just being ridiculous.

Natla
5th Apr 2011, 08:51
And in this whole discussion, 10% is on her overall figure and face and 90% is that she needs bigger T and A. Anyone arguing against the idea that the original games were not going off sexploitation and were instead trying to "design/realize her as much as consoles would allow" is just being ridiculous.

Core designed Lara just like they wanted her - a big sexy woman with two big guns. (I don't believe the Toby Gard story about his mouse slipping.)

Flintmelody
6th Apr 2011, 03:18
And in this whole discussion, 10% is on her overall figure and face and 90% is that she needs bigger T and A.

Nobody has said Lara should have a bigger bum. In fact that would mean that her breasts would need to be ever bigger to give type Lara proportions.


Don't take my words too literally: I used 'getting old and dying' meaning decreasing in number. When Legend was released 100% of the fans where from the Core age, one trilogy and one spin-off later we can say Crystal has built a fanbase of their own. So the number of fans who didn't ever play any of the Core games is irreversibly increasing now, while dinosaurs like us are becoming more of a small niche among the total fanbase.

What I say is dead for real is Core's Lara and her Jessica Rabbit shape, these are gone for good and no whining in the world will bring them back. Crystal makes the decisions now, and apart from a few ups and downs I must say they're doing an excellent job for my taste. Being an old fan doesn't imply being hermetically sealed against changes. Even if I love the series since 1998 I admit Crystal Dynamics proved so far capable enough to make me a happy dinosaur. :D

Small nieche:eek:. We are still quite a big proportion of the fanbase and hopefully CD don't repel too many out of that with their moves to change Lara. The nature of the fanbase will have rapid change but it's not to going to make us ancient nieche dinosaurs for a while yet.

Sadly you are correct that a full reveral of the changes to Lara's figure won't happen. It's still worth trying to get her breast size up to a lesser extent so a sence of continuity is possible. After all a small increase would make the pureists happier and not unpset those who like a more realistic Lara. CD have done well but I would say things like the mother story do knock it down a bit.

I am not as worried by the masculinity things as the screenshots don't show that as a problem. Probably just a heavy handed concept artist when it came to the chin. With a small dash of green to the T-shirt (or DLC outfit) and a small breast enlargement I don't think that making the pureists way happier would be that tough.

Pulse
6th Apr 2011, 22:05
Why does everyone always say they need to enlarge her breasts??? They aren't minuscule, are they? Why can't she be attractive without supporting DD's...

tomb1fan
6th Apr 2011, 22:18
The new one is better simply because it's anatomiclly correct, giving the character a sense of reality, that this is now a genuine person and not a cartoon.

i agree

tomb1fan
6th Apr 2011, 22:20
THANK YOU QIX!! You echo my sentiments exactly. I was saying this right when the images were revealed, that when you closely examine the new face, it has the basic foundation of eyes and lips, but then applied to a more anatomically detailed facial structure.

The new Lara only seems to "not be Lara" IF you are rigidly adhering to the outdated and unrealistic standards of the older models. But we can't cling to those antiquated standards if the character is to progress and rmain relevant to modern gaming. So basically this IS Lara, as she would have always been, had the technology been capable of rendering realistic human features 14 years ago.

This also goes for the overall body proportions. If you look back, and I'll even post my wallpaper below that gives us an accurate comparison, you can see how ridiculous the waist/hip ratios used to be. "Jessica Rabbit" is a pretty apt comparison to Lara's previous bodies, and that just doesn't hold up to modern standards of realism.

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r242/adobeartist/lara/Lara_wallpaper004_preview.jpg

And again, as for the "tomboy" debate, I just can't see how people can claim this. These are very attractive feminine features. Yes one can say they are strong and well defined, but that's because Lara has an overall athletic physique and countenance. Plenty of athletic women out there aren't mistaken for guys. On closer examination, you can see how her features has that just right blance between chiseled and soft graceful curvature in the cheeks and jawline.

It certainly shouldn't be because of the mud and grime that we call her a tomboy. Clear all that away and nobody would think she's a tomboy. Understand that tomboy is deliberate choice in image to emulate masculinity, and Lara's appearance of down and dirty toughness, in what we see in the banner image, is a reflection of her context. In other words, it's not her choice, it's her circumstance, that she projects this image we're seeing up above.

And as far as celebrity comparisons go, I'm not seeing Hilary Swank or Jessica Beil. I don't know what celebrity I would see in that face if any at all. I just see Lara from the old games transitioned into a fully realized human being :) :)

compare from then and now much improvements

mlwalton13
24th Apr 2011, 04:27
Personally, I'm a tad disappointed about a couple of things...first off, maybe I'm getting old (which I am, but still a gamer) but I'm not particularly pleased that the rating is going to be M for Mature. As it is, I do not have an appreciation for bloody, gory graphics...I don't want to see blood splatter, don't feel the need to shoot up bad guys just for the action of killing, for survival yes, for sport...not so much. I don't care for the increasingly exorbitant violent nature of video games as technology progresses.

Also, I like a little animation-esque quality to Lara, I don't want extreme realism in my adventure (fantasy in the sense of escapism) fantasy gaming experience. And I don't want Lara to look like a "Heroin chic model that fell down got dirty and bloody" and then stays that way throughout the game.

Sometimes with technology there's a propensity to do or make use of all the new fangled pop and sizzle....just because you can, doesn't always mean that you should.

And honestly, I've got my own emotions and issues in life and I don't want to deal with Lara's fear, angst, anger, and regret, whatever. I want to be entertained and have fun whilst playing.

Just my two cents...

RoombelinaUK
24th Apr 2011, 08:21
:eek: Are you people insane? Lara doesn't look boyish at all, in fact, she looks gorgeous - even with all those layers of dirt & blood.. Look at the image of Lara on page three of game informer titled "Teflon Beauty". If you compare her face there with the one from the cover, you'll notice she has the same exact bone structure & facial features minus the blood & dirt

_awestruck_
24th Apr 2011, 21:04
Sorry but the original is better.

Greenas
24th Apr 2011, 21:59
The new Lara is waaay better. I actually thought that the Underworld Lara's face looked disproportionate.

I think the new Lara captures that essence of classic beauty, while still remaining much more down to earth, relatable and rugged (mainly due the mud and blood though :D).

The new face is one of the many steps forward in the right direction...

Cheese is nice.
27th Apr 2011, 07:37
I think we need to be reminded that she's an aristocrat. I don't see high class in this photo. She looks like a semi mannish Victoria Secret Hilary Swank/ Jessica Biel-esque model thrown through a blender (her hair included. :lol:) Why don't I see an aristocrat? Not even her clothes remind me of her class. She looks like she shopped at Target. I want to see a dress once in a while. It's been nearly three games that still haven't had a reminding of aristocracy aside from the brief appearances of Croft manor. I want to be reminded she's a lady, not only a slightly tomboyish girl who enjoys raiding tombs. You want to flesh her out? Let me see one trace of her high class. Thaaaaats all.

LC is Me
27th Apr 2011, 22:34
I think we need to be reminded that she's an aristocrat. I don't see high class in this photo. She looks like a semi mannish Victoria Secret Hilary Swank/ Jessica Biel-esque model thrown through a blender (her hair included. :lol:) Why don't I see an aristocrat? Not even her clothes remind me of her class. She looks like she shopped at Target. I want to see a dress once in a while. It's been nearly three games that still haven't had a reminding of aristocracy aside from the brief appearances of Croft manor. I want to be reminded she's a lady, not only a slightly tomboyish girl who enjoys raiding tombs. You want to flesh her out? Let me see one trace of her high class. Thaaaaats all.
Sorry Cheese, but at age 21, you have to earn any sort of title, especially anything along the lines of "aristocrat"; you aren't just given it.
She's supposed to look rough. That's the point.
The minute any one can find any sort of glamour spot in the middle of East Jesus Nowhere, lemme know. We can redirect her. Just because she looks tomboyish doesn't take away any sort of femininity people know her to have. And frankly, I'm a little confused. If I don't dress "like a lady" 24/7 and enjoy sports a lot (which I do), does that mean I'm always a tomboy and I never portray myself as such? What do you think of girls and women in life who partake in rougher activities and look a bit leaner and more ripped than others? That they might as well be a man? That she must not be a lady? No, no, she clearly doesn't have any manners, much less own a dress or a pair of heels. How could she?! She was stranded on that damned island. What does she know about femininity?
I feel a little offended, Cheesy. :nut:

Pulse
27th Apr 2011, 22:38
Checklist for archeological expedition:

Mani/Pedi
Evening Gowns
Hair Salon
Heels
Make Up
Jewelry


:p

AdobeArtist
27th Apr 2011, 22:57
I think we need to be reminded that she's an aristocrat. I don't see high class in this photo. She looks like a semi mannish Victoria Secret Hilary Swank/ Jessica Biel-esque model thrown through a blender (her hair included. :lol:) Why don't I see an aristocrat? Not even her clothes remind me of her class. She looks like she shopped at Target. I want to see a dress once in a while. It's been nearly three games that still haven't had a reminding of aristocracy aside from the brief appearances of Croft manor. I want to be reminded she's a lady, not only a slightly tomboyish girl who enjoys raiding tombs. You want to flesh her out? Let me see one trace of her high class. Thaaaaats all.

It's caaaaaalled, CONTEXT.

You can't seriously expect Lara to be looking glamorous and all high society like in her current setting and circumstances, which plays a crucial role in the game.

And I too very much want to see the return of evening gowns and such, especially with the new Lara, but c'mon, that's not gonna happen here. We can expect (or hope) in future titles after Lara returns to civilization, but it's ridiculous to expect that here.

Denis..
28th Apr 2011, 02:22
Checklist for archeological expedition:

Mani/Pedi
Evening Gowns
Hair Salon
Heels
Make Up
Jewelry


:p

i tried to be serious in this thread but this did made me laugh..:rasp:

CaddieShepherd
28th Apr 2011, 07:23
Regarding the two renders, the new TR render is OF COURSE more detailed because it's a CGI render while that one is barely a display of the model without any lighting or details so comparing the two models will certainly be unfair.

I prefer the Underworld model in general because it was the best Lara we've known by far along with the AOD style Lara, she's not young, yet she looks very young, she's athletic, she's emotional, she's strong, she's detailed and a little bit dark too. and she was fun to be with, I doubt that dealing with an unexperienced Lara will be as fun as the professional superwoman we've always known.

RosePetals
29th Apr 2011, 16:56
^ Actually, if you look at the new in-game screenshots that were release a couple of days ago (not the old concept arts), Lara looks a lot like her Underworld model, only with baby fat--her cheekbones aren't as prominent, and just look at how her arms lack muscles. But it's definitely TRU Lara. :p

Just take a look at this...
(Sorry for the not-so-good resolution.)

http://i53.tinypic.com/2sam0jm.jpg

and this:

http://i53.tinypic.com/2e5i3qe.jpg

:D

Angy1996
30th Apr 2011, 22:50
If u want my opinion lara from tru is very nice but u miss a point CD makes a reboot!no more cartoon lara!as for the new render RosePetals showed us that the in-game lara looks like the one from underworld! if u want the lara "i have pyramids for boobs and breasts"then play the classics! Oh something more! can please someone answer me my question?why we believe that someone is weak if he or she has emotions?if u cant answer here sent me a pm..

AdobeArtist
1st May 2011, 02:35
If u want my opinion lara from tru is very nice but u miss a point CD makes a reboot!no more cartoon lara!as for the new render RosePetals showed us that the in-game lara looks like the one from underworld! if u want the lara "i have pyramids for boobs and breasts"then play the classics! Oh something more! can please someone answer me my question?why we believe that someone is weak if he or she has emotions?if u cant answer here sent me a pm..

I actually covered this in another thread;

We really do need to dispel this myth that "emotional = weak". Nothing could be further from thr truth.

If you look at all the best war stories, those which are most critically acclaimed and praised, they feature very richly developed characters, ones who can realistically feel their experiences. Just take a look at The Pacific, Saving Private Ryan, We Were Soldiers, and so on... Forget about that old school hollywood archetype of the "fearless soldier" who's so eager to take down the enemy, and rushes into the fray of bullets, relishing the heat of battle. In these war stories, the characters are all experiencing the emotional trauma's of the arduous conditions that must endure; or to put it simply the "hell of war".

They're real people who can feel fear of what they're going through. They even cry some times. That doesn't make them weak or wimps. Far from it it just shows how much they're real people that the harsh circumstances affect them so, and its this detailed character work which supports the story, giving it its credibility and compelling drama.

Story telling and character development in video games too has come a long way since 1996. It isn't just about the stoic hero that rushes head long into the fire, laughing in the face of danger, acting as if they're invincible. We now see characters who are aware of their own mortality and must balance their bravery with sense and caution, as well as being able to feel their experiences.

If Lara is to survive the 21st century, she must evolve to the current standards of game design and character development. Otherwise she will fade into obscurity, and I do NOT want to see that happen.

On a final note about heroes and emotional context; people like to throw the word "fearless" around a lot. But most don't understand what that truly means. Fearless is NOT the absense of fear, only a fool would be unaware of things that should be feared. Fearless is being capable of both acknowleding fear and that which poses a risk to yourself and still being able to face it & confront it. It's about controlling yourself against fear and not allowing the fear to control you (letting it influence your decisions and actions). Fearless is taking ownership of your fears (what ever they are) and understanding that you may live with them, but you won't live your life by them.

Pulse
1st May 2011, 03:59
That screenshot makes her look awful. Surely there are better ones :hmm:

Natla
1st May 2011, 08:47
I prefer my Lara to like my Martinis - dry. All this talk of "close-ups where we see the pain and anguish on her face" reminds me of (a) the ridiculous moment in Legend when she saw blood on her hands and (b) ... not sure how to put this, but sadism? Is that the right word? That combined with tying her up and hanging her from then roof of a cave ... as I've said elsewhere, I'm a little uneasy.

Angy1996
1st May 2011, 10:59
Thank u adobeARTIST u covered me completly..the new render looks very nice ! she doesnt look like a boy at all..but she cant be unhurted in her condition!imaging being in her state! Survivor from a wreck full of wounds bleeding! what would u think? Oh my god i look awful lets put a new dress on and go hunt some monsters! I try to be logical..if im not say to me..

Angy1996
1st May 2011, 11:00
^ for some guys thinking she looks awful

AdobeArtist
1st May 2011, 14:17
I prefer my Lara to like my Martinis - dry. All this talk of "close-ups where we see the pain and anguish on her face" reminds me of (a) the ridiculous moment in Legend when she saw blood on her hands and (b) ... not sure how to put this, but sadism? Is that the right word? That combined with tying her up and hanging her from then roof of a cave ... as I've said elsewhere, I'm a little uneasy.

And don't you think the person undergoing these experiences is feeling "uneasy"? That might even be putting it mildly based on the exact situation.

If you are feeling such, that just means the game accomplished exactly what it set out to do. Good writing in any media means evoking a response from the viewer/reader, and creating an emotional connection between you and the character.

Denis..
1st May 2011, 14:49
And don't you think the person undergoing these experiences is feeling "uneasy"? That might even be putting it mildly based on the exact situation.

If you are feeling such, that just means the game accomplished exactly what it set out to do. Good writing in any media means evoking a response from the viewer/reader, and creating an emotional connection between you and the character.

sorry for going off topic but i couldn't keep this..

you are a very interesting person judging from your posts hands down!
how old are you?
just that no other off topic post

AdobeArtist
1st May 2011, 15:02
Wow, thank you for making me blush there Denis :o:o
And I'm old enough to be sensitive to the question, haha ;) :p

Natla
1st May 2011, 17:22
And don't you think the person undergoing these experiences is feeling "uneasy"? That might even be putting it mildly based on the exact situation.

If you are feeling such, that just means the game accomplished exactly what it set out to do. Good writing in any media means evoking a response from the viewer/reader, and creating an emotional connection between you and the character.

I meant uneasy at the concept, not during the alleged gameplay.

Andy64
2nd May 2011, 00:29
http://i53.tinypic.com/2sam0jm.jpg

She looks just like Kate Austen from Lost in that image.


I prefer my Lara to like my Martinis - dry. All this talk of "close-ups where we see the pain and anguish on her face" reminds me of (a) the ridiculous moment in Legend when she saw blood on her hands and (b) ... not sure how to put this, but sadism? Is that the right word? That combined with tying her up and hanging her from then roof of a cave ... as I've said elsewhere, I'm a little uneasy.

The blood/hands thing was in anniversary and it was a bad attempt to copy the first cutscene from AOD. In AOD it fit in context but in TRA it just seemed stupid.

Lara being tied up is a good idea but having close ups of her face with an anguish look will soon get tiresome. Hope they don't over-use it.

Natla
2nd May 2011, 07:46
The blood/hands thing was in anniversary and it was a bad attempt to copy the first cutscene from AOD. In AOD it fit in context but in TRA it just seemed stupid.

Oopsie. I tend to get the three games (or is that two games and a "re-imagining"?) in the Trilogy (or is that TwoAndAHalf-logy?) confused. :nut:

Denis..
2nd May 2011, 09:09
Wow, thank you for making me blush there Denis :o:o
And I'm old enough to be sensitive to the question, haha ;) :p

oups! my bad, ok no problem
and i ment what i said on my previous post really!

so back to topic with a simple question..

do we really need the new 20 year old lara looking like the 40 year old underworld lara?
isn't it strange?

Pulse
2nd May 2011, 21:55
I don't think they look that similar...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



(Wasn't Underworld Lara ageless, like all of CD's renditions???)

dark7angel
2nd May 2011, 22:09
I agree with Pulse! The new Lara doesn't look that much as Underworld Lara. She is still recognisable as Lara, keeping the same features but the two models are very distint from each other.

(And yes Pulse, you are right, Underworld Lara was supposed to be ageless as all the other CD Lara's. I think I read somewhere that they said she was in her late twenties or something...)

Cristiavano
3rd May 2011, 02:32
I don't think they look that similar...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)



(Wasn't Underworld Lara ageless, like all of CD's renditions???)

in my perspective she kind of looks the same. Maybe Crystal dynamics reused the underworld mesh and tweaked it a bit to a recognizably yet different Lara. (in my perspective) and textures also do make a difference sometimes a skin texture on different model can change the appearance.

Driber
3rd May 2011, 11:25
Pulse, in the future please use the forum BB code [thumb] for very large images to prevent the forum from stretching out on lower resolutions. I went ahead and fixed it in your post. You can read how to use this code here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#thumb).

You can also use my Forum Thumbnailer tool (http://driber.net/os/forumthumb.php) to do this quicker.

Thanks :)

Cristiavano
3rd May 2011, 22:22
Pulse, in the future please use the forum BB code [thumb] for very large images to prevent the forum from stretching out on lower resolutions. I went ahead and fixed it in your post. You can read how to use this code here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#thumb).

You can also use my Forum Thumbnailer tool (http://driber.net/os/forumthumb.php) to do this quicker.

Thanks :)

thank you i dind't know how to shrink it down in a quote i don't know how ever i shall pay you back

Odonata
4th May 2011, 14:02
Hello eveyone! I'm new to the forums, although I do visit occasionally.

Just my 2 cents on the debate about her figure. (not sure if it's been said yet) I think the developers realizing that there are quite a few more female gamers out there than there were 10+ years ago. I think they would like to attract more female gamers. I know myself, as a female, the only "eye candy" I want to oggle is the amazing enviroment. I had a few eye-rolling moments during some of the early games cut scenes. (forgot which game, but she's stowing away on some boat.) I really don't mind that she has a more realistic figure. I'm just glad they didn't go with (my biggest fear)blonde hair and blue eyes.lol

Ants_27_
4th May 2011, 17:49
Well, welcome aboard Odonata.:D

And you your biggest fear would be possible. Just said she'd been put in cyro sleep which caused antibodies to delevop meaning she would become pale and blond hair. Oh wait... that's Capcom.;)

But going off that comparison in the quote above the I actually prefer the look of the new one! :D

Driber
4th May 2011, 22:34
i don't know how ever i shall pay you back

I can think of a way :naughty:

Dress up as Lara and.......do the Macarena while standing on your head drinking a frozen bottle of Mountain Dew!

_Love2Raid_
4th May 2011, 23:36
in my perspective she kind of looks the same. Maybe Crystal dynamics reused the underworld mesh and tweaked it a bit to a recognizably yet different Lara. (in my perspective) and textures also do make a difference sometimes a skin texture on different model can change the appearance.
I don´t think so. It´s far too different, it would be a waste of time to remodel TRU Lara that much. Might as well start over from scratch. Remember that they modeled her after real women (I read that in one of the early articles). Usually, an in-game model is a downscaled version of a higher detailed ´render´ model. Not sure if this is the case here but I would think so. Doesn´t make sense to make a model twice, you know.

@Odonata: Welcome! :)

Denis..
5th May 2011, 09:17
I can think of a way :naughty:

Dress up as Lara and.......do the Macarena while standing on your head drinking a frozen bottle of Mountain Dew!

hahahaha i like your crazyness!
judging from your older posts i would say that you were all serious!

as for lara being ageless i gonna say a big no!
for me at least she was 40 in underworld as she was 37 in legend with core's biography!
as cd didn't gave us a new biography and a specific age it can be truth!

chriss_99
5th May 2011, 10:25
I would never say that Lara in Underworld was 40. She looked much younger, then again I'd never thought of Lara's age. I'd rather think of her as "forver young" character. :)

As for similarities between the new model and the Underworld one, I think that CD built the new model from scratch. However, I can see some similarities between the old and new Lara. All in all, it's the same character in a more realistic version.

The model itself is nice but it still needs some slight improvements in the overall appearance. Someone may call it nitpicking, but I think there's something wrong with her hair. You can see it in some screens which I can't post due to forum regulations.
Nevertheless, the new Lara feels like the good old Lara I've known. ;)

Odonata
5th May 2011, 10:58
Thanks for the welcoming posts everyone!

Every time a new TR game comes out, I'm afraid I'll be dissapointed that they've changed something drastically. I think this is because I hate change.lol The only game that I was really dissapointed with was AOD and that was only because of some serious glitches I experienced. I am looking forward to this game though.

Driber
5th May 2011, 19:57
hahahaha i like your crazyness!
judging from your older posts i would say that you were all serious!

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

_Love2Raid_
5th May 2011, 20:25
I would never say that Lara in Underworld was 40. She looked much younger, then again I'd never thought of Lara's age. I'd rather think of her as "forver young" character. :)

As for similarities between the new model and the Underworld one, I think that CD built the new model from scratch. However, I can see some similarities between the old and new Lara. All in all, it's the same character in a more realistic version.

The model itself is nice but it still needs some slight improvements in the overall appearance. Someone may call it nitpicking, but I think there's something wrong with her hair. You can see it in some screens which I can't post due to forum regulations.
Nevertheless, the new Lara feels like the good old Lara I've known. ;)

Yeah, I agree about the hair. It looks unfinished, the transparency maps are kinda bad, lol (alpha channel). I'm sure they'll improve that some time before release.

LC is Me
5th May 2011, 22:05
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
D:

Stop that stop that stop that.

AdobeArtist
6th May 2011, 00:50
oups! my bad, ok no problem
and i ment what i said on my previous post really!

so back to topic with a simple question..

do we really need the new 20 year old lara looking like the 40 year old underworld lara?
isn't it strange?

No worries there mate, just messin around :rasp:

And Lara's appearance isn't so much about age correlation, since you would expect to see a connection of how a 21 year old would lead to what they look like when over 30.

Now it's about how much more realistic she is, shedding the disproportionate anatomy of the pst games in favor of more accurate facial and body structure.


I can think of a way :naughty:


Such reckless abuse of power.

How do I become a mod? :naughty:

Flintmelody
6th May 2011, 03:12
Now it's about how much more realistic she is, shedding the disproportionate anatomy of the pst games in favor of more accurate facial and body structure.

Realism is all well and good but if Lara ends up some average girl rather than distinctly Lara then it is no good at all. If the face structure is wrong or her breasts turn out average sized for a 21 year old then that would really damage the game. A slightly less realistic painting of an apple makes a far better picture of an apple than a perfect realistic painting of an orange.

monwolf
6th May 2011, 05:46
The way I understand it is this is supposed to be an origins story right? It supposed to tell a story of how Lara became the Lara we love. She is on this journey because she doesn't want to live in her prestigous family's shadow. Based off of that and the fact of where and how she is traveling, I can understand the look. She's not going to be wearing a dress with a bunch of men on a boat going on an adventure. She's not going to want to look like a noble lady from a high class British family because she wants to be her own person. Basically, her look is the poduct of setting and circumstances.

I can't wait to see how the story unfolds to explain how a young lady became a hardnened explorer. That being said, I could care less about how she looks. As long as the gameplay and story are good then I can forgive facial and body proportions.

ps. ok, if I HAD to pick a celebrity she looks like.... Jessica Alba

Driber
6th May 2011, 07:36
Such reckless abuse of power.

How do I become a mod? :naughty:

The ones that ask, never do :p

Denis..
6th May 2011, 11:24
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

lol THIS!
btw whose jack buddy? AW CAN I BE ROSE?

to the users now,
anyway talking about laras look the are more things that makes a game character realistic except the number of polygons they have on them!
have u seen heavy rain?!
i bet the characters in heavy rain have less polygons than drake in uncharted but yet they look more realistic!

TrickyVein
6th May 2011, 15:14
ps. ok, if I HAD to pick a celebrity she looks like.... Jessica Alba

Not only is that just wrong, like inaccurate,

that's just...

so wrong.

Jerion
6th May 2011, 20:03
The ones that ask, never do :p

The ones that do, never asked.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4426/dxmeme.jpg



:D

TrickyVein
6th May 2011, 21:54
...whatever happened to "crossing the streams?"

There's no going back, now, it seems.

We shall continue to post funny internet memes,

and stay a while until someone screams.

AdobeArtist
7th May 2011, 02:57
...whatever happened to "crossing the streams?"

There's no going back, now, it seems.

We shall continue to post funny internet memes,

and stay a while until someone screams.

That, was so full of WIN!!! :D:D:D

monwolf
7th May 2011, 06:14
Not only is that just wrong, like inaccurate,

that's just...

so wrong.

lol... ok maybe it was just because I had just watched "Little Fockers"...

n that... was wrong.. lol

AlexOfSpades
7th May 2011, 06:19
No, but she really looks like Jessica Alba in the forum layout top image.

What?

I think she does.

Guys, put the guns down...

Alison Anderson
29th Aug 2011, 23:08
Don't get me wrong! im not asking people to comments on her bosoms >.< i know there's alot to say ;)

but upon seeing her pic's i noticed something had changed :O Lara is a much more attractive ,realistic, and not over sexed <33

allright stop beating the bush and less get back on track :)
-----------------------------------------------------------
First off what do you think of the new lara? (eg: sexy, cool, hot mess, Bad A**!1)
And also what do you think her measurements, weight, and height will be? Do you like the: breast reduction/resized body?
-----------------------------------------------------------
AA's Answer: I love how Lara isn't over sexed in this game it makes her much more attractive and most of all more real. i loved lara from back in the day but (gahhh) it gave her an unrealistic look and if she was real she would topple over air cause of her breasts. her body and face are more proportional to me.
im a women so i think her measurements are probably
32-34 bust c-cup?
24 inch waist
34-36 inch hip?
5'9 height?
------------------------------------------------------------
PLEASE STAY ON TOPIC I KNOW BREAST (and other ahhem) ARE A REALLLLY TEMPTING :)
------------------------------------------------------------
almost forgot these are american measurements (i believe). don't worry, you DO NOT need to convert your sizes for people to understand. i will convert them for anyone that doesn't know ;)

Error96_
30th Aug 2011, 01:25
I feel almost the opposite. I have been with Lara since the start and she has become such a huge icon to me. Having spent so many many hours playing as her I have really fallen for her. Not like a crushing on her thing as I don't see her in that way but more just a real connection to the character.

Lara has done so much to change video gaming and especially in bringing female protagonists to the forefront of the industry. I will definately remember Lara till the day I die BUT.... the image I will remember and the image I love so much is the old one and NOT the new one. Even if CD spend the next 20 years making games with the new look Lara that would not change. I feel a sence of sorrow for the new Lara in that she had to have her image changed due to other peoples preconcieved oppinions of her based on her looks.

The image below represents what I see as the perfect representation of Lara. A absolutly stunning updated graphics version of Core's original model. Beauty encapsulated. In the new girl I see someone who looks completely different to Lara and so have to say I really don't like it. I am stilll so proud of the original look - The first lady of video games, the superstar, the icon ... Lara croft.

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss237/error96/LaraTRA.jpg

Elliot Kane
30th Aug 2011, 02:14
Physically, Underworld Lara is the one that works best, for me. She's totally believable as an athletic and beautiful woman. Probably because they body-scanned one to get her :)

AdobeArtist
30th Aug 2011, 04:51
I feel almost the opposite. I have been with Lara since the start and she has become such a huge icon to me. Having spent so many many hours playing as her I have really fallen for her. Not like a crushing on her thing as I don't see her in that way but more just a real connection to the character.

Lara has done so much to change video gaming and especially in bringing female protagonists to the forefront of the industry. I will definately remember Lara till the day I die BUT.... the image I will remember and the image I love so much is the old one and NOT the new one. Even if CD spend the next 20 years making games with the new look Lara that would not change. I feel a sence of sorrow for the new Lara in that she had to have her image changed due to other peoples preconcieved oppinions of her based on her looks.

The image below represents what I see as the perfect representation of Lara. A absolutly stunning updated graphics version of Core's original model. Beauty encapsulated. In the new girl I see someone who looks completely different to Lara and so have to say I really don't like it. I am stilll so proud of the original look - The first lady of video games, the superstar, the icon ... Lara croft.

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss237/error96/LaraTRA.jpg

I do agree that Lara has done more for advancing the role of female protagonists in gaming than any other character. But her physique is least of the qualities that helped her accomplish this. It was first and foremost her character that helped push the boundaries for women in video games. She was a take charge, self reliant, woman of strong convictions.

And don't get me wrong, her sex appeal certainly was a factor in that, just not in the more obvious way. I guess what I mean is that her true sex appeal came from her attitude, that cheeky playfulness with which she engaged in banter with various male encounters.

Also of note, and something I have stated several times as what set her apart from any other female character, is her diversity in style that makes her so sexy. Whether its the athletic exploration gear, a curve hugging catsuit, a stylish and elegant evening gown, casual denim attire, urban military, diving suits - basically be it high fashion to a "super hero" image, Lara pulled it all off with flare and confidence.

And that didn't require comically exaggerated proportions either. And this IS also coming from someone who has been with the games and the characters since her debut in 1996, but I don't fixate it all on the body. It's about a woman who is confident in her looks and doesn't mind flaunting it, but also without motivation of vanity either. Lara combines sensuality with culture and sophistication, which is truly unique.

And these qualities & personality traits can only be further benefited by a more realistically styled woman, who's presence is made more captivating by being more believable as a "dream come true" kinda gal, and ultimately as a convincing person.

Oh and welcome to the forums, Alison Anderson. Hey, we got the same initials :) :wave::flowers:

Driber
30th Aug 2011, 08:47
Personally, I'm a bit disappointed that her cup size seems to be drastically decreased. I sense it's done because of "politically correctness" and to say I'm not a fan of PC would be an understatement.

To anyone who agrees with the argument "Lara's boobs were unrealistic", I suggest spending a few days in the Czech Republic and you will realize that boobs of that size are definitely not unrealistic :D


I KNOW BREAST [...] ARE A REALLLLY TEMPTING :)

:lol:

LadyRufina
30th Aug 2011, 08:58
I feel almost the opposite. I have been with Lara since the start and she has become such a huge icon to me. Having spent so many many hours playing as her I have really fallen for her. Not like a crushing on her thing as I don't see her in that way but more just a real connection to the character.

Lara has done so much to change video gaming and especially in bringing female protagonists to the forefront of the industry. I will definately remember Lara till the day I die BUT.... the image I will remember and the image I love so much is the old one and NOT the new one. Even if CD spend the next 20 years making games with the new look Lara that would not change. I feel a sence of sorrow for the new Lara in that she had to have her image changed due to other peoples preconcieved oppinions of her based on her looks.

The image below represents what I see as the perfect representation of Lara. A absolutly stunning updated graphics version of Core's original model. Beauty encapsulated. In the new girl I see someone who looks completely different to Lara and so have to say I really don't like it. I am stilll so proud of the original look - The first lady of video games, the superstar, the icon ... Lara croft.

http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss237/error96/LaraTRA.jpg

I am sorry but you can have an itsy bitsy abdomen and bloody e-cups, it's one or the other i'm afraid :( The new Lara has a totally realistic body. 32 Cs sound about right, even if a bit too big if she does have a naturally athletic body. She isn't ridiculously curved but you can notice it. She has a realisticly beautiful face like a girl-next-door type, not a porn-star kind of beautiful. Defo this new Lara is the best.

IvanaKC
30th Aug 2011, 09:24
Lara's body doesn't look the best so far, but the only thing I'm complaining about is breast size and face. That's not even that important to me because she is still beautiful. I just wanna play the game and then say if she looks good or not.
Anyway, I bet she would look different if she would be wearing shorts and tops like in previous games. Besides, whenever some TR game would come out, everyone's first comments would be 'Oh, look how great Lara looks' because everyone remembers old games when Lara looked a bunch of colored squares. Maybe Crystal Dynamics wants us to concentrate on the gameplay FIRST not how sexy Lara is, if you know what I mean. In my opinion, they made her sexy enough because she's still young.

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Aug 2011, 09:58
Beauty and sexiness is all in the eye of the beholder, and I personaly like what I see. She looks fairly atheletic yeah, tho not as atheletic as we've seen her before but it's her first adventure so that makes sense to me. As far as the sexiness goes I think that sometimes less is more, and in this case that applies. But I've always had the opinion of "It's not what you wear or what you've got, it's who you are" that makes a person sexy, so take that for what it's worth.

Still tho, I really dig the fact that she's been sexed-down. I'm hoping it'll give people who always just looked at her as T & A a chance to see that she's more then that. And my guess is that is exactly why she's been sexed-down. I doubt it had anything to do with being PC. Besides, shedloads of other games out there nowadays with overly proportioned females for people to ogle. "Mass Effect" springs to mind.

Flintmelody
30th Aug 2011, 14:31
It's good that they went for more realism and the adjustment associated with that BUT they went further than that for smaller breasts for the sake of political correctness and I really hate that. They could and should have made her more top heavy than the new model whilst they would have still been able to keep full realism. It was an extremely poor choice to go with the reduction they did. They need to get her back up a cup size to stop me heavily rating the game down over it. I was really glad to see Error's thoughts as it's very nice to see people showing support for the original model.


don't get me wrong, her sex appeal certainly was a factor in that, just not in the more obvious way. I guess what I mean is that her true sex appeal came from her attitude, that cheeky playfulness with which she engaged in banter with various male encounters.

Also of note, and something I have stated several times as what set her apart from any other female character, is her diversity in style that makes her so sexy. Whether its the athletic exploration gear, a curve hugging catsuit, a stylish and elegant evening gown, casual denim attire, urban military, diving suits - basically be it high fashion to a "super hero" image, Lara pulled it all off with flare and confidence.

Part of Lara's success comes from her looks but I agree with you that sexiness doesn't just come from looks. Part of her sexiness comes though fantastic stylish outfits but just look at the horrid boring, unsexy outfit they have stuck her in for the new game. That outfit choice represents non of Lara's style and represents another effort to erode who Lara is. She goes for style and functionality AND CERTAINLY NOT just functionality alone. This more emotional Lara probably ain't going to have as much wit dealing with the guys either.

My fav CD Lara moment is when she turns up at the party in the Japan dress. Really sexy yet so classy too and combined with Lara attitude is just amazing. The desexualisation of Lara that some of CD want if achieved would be nothing short of disastrous for the character. To lose that would be losing a massive part of who Lara is (far more than breast tissue).


Personally, I'm a bit disappointed that her cup size seems to be drastically decreased. I sense it's done because of "politically correctness" and to say I'm not a fan of PC would be an understatement.

To anyone who agrees with the argument "Lara's boobs were unrealistic", I suggest spending a few days in the Czech Republic and you will realize that boobs of that size are definitely not unrealistic :D

I know where I am going on holiday next year :eek::eek::eek::lol: ... Just kidding. Being more serious I completely agree with Driber

LadyRufina
30th Aug 2011, 14:41
It's good that they went for more realism and the adjustment associated with that BUT they went further than that for smaller breasts for the sake of political correctness and I really hate that. They could and should have made her more top heavy than the new model whilst they would have still been able to keep full realism. It was an extremely poor choice to go with the reduction they did. They need to get her back up a cup size to stop me heavily rating the game down over it.

I totally disagree. It's not just for political correctness, it's for all the laws of physics correctness! You can't be an D/E cup and be jumping around and climb up horizontal cliff-faces all day long. It just doesn't happen. I have never in my life seen an athlete with D cups. Lara should have a naturally athletic body and athletic bodies very rarely go above Cs, if that. I think they have done a great job. Bear in mind the fact she is only 21 as well.

LARALOVERnr1
30th Aug 2011, 15:54
I agree with LadyRufina.

http://www.sport1.nl/files/thumb/g/o/Infostrada_Gymnastics%20-%20Artistic_2010_11_auto_auto_c651_c370_od41_q95_goud-voor-turnster-rijken-in-osijek.jpg
Does this look like a cup D to you?
Athletes just have small boobs, and for Lara to look younger and more agile, they had to change her melons to oranges. It's as simple as that :)

Elliot Kane
30th Aug 2011, 16:13
They don't all look like that, either.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/ElliotKane/Alison.jpg

Alison Carroll is also a professional gymnast and trainer of gymnasts.

LARALOVERnr1
30th Aug 2011, 16:39
@Elliot Kane
Ofcourse there are some exceptions, but big boobs usually don't fit in the idea of an athletic woman -_-

Elliot Kane
30th Aug 2011, 16:56
Oh, I don't think Lara's breasts should be enormous. It's why I prefer the Underworld model to the earlier versions. I think Underworld Lara looks like a very athletic but still believable woman.

I think Alison herself is probably the best of the Lara models, for that matter. She has the right kind of athletic look.

Alison Anderson
30th Aug 2011, 17:56
These replys are so interesting. It's really fascinating how this thread became a debate.
----------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Adobe for the warm welcoming! Yes we do have the same initials. This is actually my first ever gaming forum I joined so I'm really pumped and excited to get to know more about what peoples prospective are. Tomb raider was a game I grew up with. It's also one of the few games I play.
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@ ladyrufina yes! finally someone that knows what I mean. I know its a,videogame and there has to be some unrealistic factors. But come on! Your scaleing mt. Kilimanjaro in booty shorts and kicking antagonist butt while doing olympic gold metal back flips. This makes thw game fun and memoriable but it seems too unrealistic. I thought it was cool when I first started playing when I was 7. But as people get older and newer generation of video games are born things will change to meet the market. I don't know of any games that is rated m and doesn't have some sense of realism and adrenalin. I'm a athletic girl and sure as he11 I don't have e-d cups lol Don'tf orget this is Tomb raider and not ff where girls have a more cartoonish look. ;)
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@adobeartist @driber @flintmelody so true all of your means a lot to me. :) Lara croft is definitely my idol. She inspired me to things I would have never done (hit the gym :P) and that's turned my life around. Yes I know Lara is not about her body I've looks further beyond that. Lara atrabute and attitude are striking especially the old Lara confident independent and genuine i'll never forget that.
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Overall: the old Lara is irreplaceable but for me its time to switch the game up. The new Lara is really intrests because it will explain how 21 year old Lara became a tomb raider. Unlike the old Lara who knows exactly what she is doing. By changing up the concept and giving it a " fish out if water" feel is what makes the game so intriguing. Lara has no idea what to do, where to go, and ultimately how to survive. just put it this way Lara just got pushed into mile high poo and we want to know how shes going to get out of it. <-- sorry for giving you the image. Whether its new or old lara. Lara will allways be my cup of tea.
--------------------------------------------------------
I'm in the US having the second cup of coffee I've ever had. Jittering so much! this took me ages to type since I on a mobile phone. So if there are any mistakes i'll correct them

LARALOVERnr1
30th Aug 2011, 18:26
@Elliot Kane

Still count this as big :P

But I have to agree, it does look realistic. I think Anniversary (especcially the pic posted above) was a bit too big... :/ (Don't get me wrong, I like big b00bs, and I think she looks sexy on that pic, but for an athletic adventurer it looks a bit weird :S)
I think Legend was perfect.

Not to big, not to small, realistic and agile figure; perfect :D

Alison Anderson
30th Aug 2011, 18:34
:lol:[/QUOTE]


I agree with LadyRufina.

http://www.sport1.nl/files/thumb/g/o/Infostrada_Gymnastics%20-%20Artistic_2010_11_auto_auto_c651_c370_od41_q95_goud-voor-turnster-rijken-in-osijek.jpg
Does this look like a cup D to you?
Athletes just have small boobs, and for Lara to look younger and more agile, they had to change her melons to oranges. It's as simple as that :)

sooo true! Athletes have a compact build. by giving Lara a more athlete look makes her more agile. my cousin commented on old lara's breast and said "woah did she just give birth or something she'll feed Europe for months!" but i noticed that alot of athletes are not only compact their also very petite petite girls are smaller everywhere for Lara's sake a few "speed bumps" here and there won't hurt ;).
---------------------------------
@ driber hahaha i don't need to go to Czech Republic to realize there are natural E-cups. im at the US and the chicks have BAZOOOOKAZ! stood next to a american lady at 7-11 the difference is tremendous. D:

Elliot Kane
30th Aug 2011, 18:46
LaraLover,

Well, to be fair, she IS leaning forward in that shot. I like Legend Lara, too, though, I must admit. Not even entirely sure why I prefer Underworld Lara to Legend Lara. Might be the waist. Legend's is a bit exaggerated, maybe. Underworld's seems more natural. The overall balance of her body seems about right, there.

Driber
30th Aug 2011, 18:59
I agree with LadyRufina.

{ pic of a very petite athlete }

Does this look like a cup D to you?
Athletes just have small boobs, and for Lara to look younger and more agile, they had to change her melons to oranges. It's as simple as that :)


I totally disagree. It's not just for political correctness, it's for all the laws of physics correctness! You can't be an D/E cup and be jumping around and climb up horizontal cliff-faces all day long. It just doesn't happen. I have never in my life seen an athlete with D cups. Lara should have a naturally athletic body and athletic bodies very rarely go above Cs, if that. I think they have done a great job. Bear in mind the fact she is only 21 as well.

Pish posh. Wear the right kind of clothes and your agility will not be hindered by having a D cup.

Elliot Kane's example of Alison Carroll serves perfectly to make this point. Not quite sure if she's a D, but certainly does not have "oranges" as LARALOVERnr.1 put it, lol.


These replys are so interesting. It's really fascinating how this thread became a debate.

Hehe, welcome to the Eidos forums, were Lara's boobs are a never ending debate :D


@ driber hahaha i don't need to go to Czech Republic to realize there are natural E-cups. im at the US and the chicks have BAZOOOOKAZ! stood next to a american lady at 7-11 the difference is tremendous. D:

At first, I figured you as a female member, going by your username. But your "chicks" remark now make me think otherwise, haha.

Just sayin'

Alison Anderson
30th Aug 2011, 19:12
well it was a new phrase i learned when i came to US "allways refer girls as chicks it's a compliment" but instead i end up sounding like a man. who ever told me that shall be tortured beyond belief by AA :)

(im a women don't worry!)

Elliot Kane
30th Aug 2011, 19:16
There are three basic conventions when it comes to names, I find: male, female and American :D

Driber
30th Aug 2011, 19:34
"allways refer girls as chicks it's a compliment"

hmmm, must be a Jersey thing :lol:

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Aug 2011, 22:12
@Alison Yeah, take it from me (a dude that lives in the U.S.) not all chicks like being called "chicks". Unfortunately, chicks is part of my natural vocabulary so I've found this out the hard way. It's part of the reason why I started calling both males and females "dude". Most chicks are ok with being called "dude" as it's kind of like "buddy" or "pal". Well, the chicks I know and talk to are, anyways.

Alison Anderson
30th Aug 2011, 22:46
@winter :lol: lucky for you you actually find out sooner. now that i think of it, i called every female at the airport a "chick" and i wondered "hmm where is that laughter coming from :confused:?" now i know haha @ driber the person that gave the head up was in fact a man from new Hampshire :o
so awkward being a "fob" from UK.
--------------------------------------------------
anyhow BACK ON TOPIC :cool:

d1n0_xD
30th Aug 2011, 23:32
Hehe, welcome to the Eidos forums, were Lara's boobs are a never ending debate :D

Hahahahah true that, true that :D

Well, as much as I like that Anniversary shot, I couldn't help but observe ( :D ) those lines better, and those boobs are pretty huge, and the waist :thumb: :D
That aside, I also like the new model, it just seems normal :D (I'm actually the guy that doesn't care about this stuff as long as the face reminds me of Lara :D ) Underworld and Legend Lara were ok, but again, this new look is awesome IMO. :D

sierra xb
30th Aug 2011, 23:33
ok, time for me to "weigh in" on Lara's breast size...;) I don't know if it has anything to do with being introduced to Lara in Legend instead of the Core games, but Lara's boobs for me have nothing to do with the character...it was her attitude that mkaes her who she is for me. From my perspective, Lara's cup size never has, and never will have anything to do with my interest in the games or Lara in general. Most (not all, mind you) of the women that I know that have D+ cup sizes also tend to be a little heavier in other areas as well. , so I have no problems with C's on a 21 year old. In any case, she is not in any danger of being mistaken for a man...just look at the screenshots from the trailer when she slips from holding Roth's hand and falls in the water....those are NOT small.

d1n0_xD
30th Aug 2011, 23:41
just look at the screenshots from the trailer when she slips from holding Roth's hand and falls in the water....those are NOT small.

Let me help you with that :p

http://i53.tinypic.com/2yuek48.jpg

:D

sierra xb
30th Aug 2011, 23:46
Let me help you with that :p

:D

yep, that's the one...I would have put it up, but didn't want to go hunting for someplace that had it hosted already. If the in-game Lara has the same "features" as trailer Lara, then I don't really see how that would be considered "too small"....oh well, to each his own :)

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Aug 2011, 23:50
@Sierra & D1n0 Geez I never noticed how "not small" they were in the preview 'till you both just pointed that out. And here I was thinking there'd been a massive reduction, not a tiny one.

sierra xb
31st Aug 2011, 02:57
so you take this screenshot...

http://i53.tinypic.com/2yuek48.jpg


Now compare that to this from Underworld (similar angle)...

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k334/star_stockpb/374bc6c0.jpg

There is a difference, but I'm wondering if it's not as much as we'd think

Elliot Kane
31st Aug 2011, 03:27
None that could not be accounted for by a still-growing Lara, in fact.

At 21, Lara is yet to achieve her full womanly shape, after all. Still got a bit of filling out to do...

Driber
31st Aug 2011, 07:39
just look at the screenshots from the trailer when she slips from holding Roth's hand and falls in the water....those are NOT small.


Let me help you with that :p

width='150'

:D

You guys can't compare that pic with one where she is, for example, sitting still. These are not "normal conditions".

1) She is having her arms up here and that lifts up your boobs IRL too. So it could be the engine rendering them like this in this particular still, to mimic real life skin movement. Notice how her left boob appears to be 1 or 2 cups bigger than her right, because she is stretching her left arm out much more.

2) She is falling here, so gravity (this game being so heavily focused on physics and all) could also play a role in lifting them up even further.

So this example image is invalid; it's the equivalent of someone with a C cup wearing a push-up bra.

And just for the record, I don't think Lara's new boobs are "too small", nor do I have a big (no pun intended) problem with it; just stating that they are a lot small-ER compared to her previous models ;)

Charlie.T.Raider
31st Aug 2011, 09:56
Visual vs visual. I think the original look was more eye catching and iconic. Not that it is everything to LC but I certanly think they went too small.

LadyRufina
31st Aug 2011, 10:25
Pish posh. Wear the right kind of clothes and your agility will not be hindered by having a D cup.

I must say I disagree. When I was back at school, not 6 years ago, There was a particular girl who developed much faster than others (at 14 years of age she had Ds). When we used to do P.E. with proper rugby tops in the winter, which were quite tight fitting, and did cross-country she had to hold her boobs in one hand so they wouldn't keep smacking her in the face. So anything above a C would have a massive impact on athletic activies.

Alison Carrol isn't really a good example of an exception to athletic bodies as she is probably a 36c and who knows whether she's had implants. Well probably someone knows but I don't.

Sure not all athletic women are that petite but if you are that petite then you have a massive advantage and i'm guessing only girls that petite can perform maneuvers that Lara has done in the past.

d1n0_xD
31st Aug 2011, 10:30
When I was back at school, not 6 years ago, There was a particular girl who developed much faster than others (at 14 years of age she had Ds). When we used to do P.E. with proper rugby tops in the winter, which were quite tight fitting, and did cross-country she had to hold her boobs in one hand so they wouldn't keep smacking her in the face.

God, I laughed so hard! :lol: But that's true, there are examples in almost every school, mine included :D

LadyRufina
31st Aug 2011, 10:36
God, I laughed so hard! :lol: But that's true, there are examples in almost every school, mine included :D

I know. And this girl wasn't like fat, she was chunky but she weren't fat and she was good at some sports but the ones like cross-country she could not do to save her life! So imagine Lara with those two delicate little layered tank-tops and her slim frame, with Ds and imagine her trying to run away from that scary man in the cavern. I really can't imagine what could hurt more: Being stabbed to death or walloped to death with your own boobs?!! :scratch:

LARALOVERnr1
31st Aug 2011, 10:55
I'm loosing the discussion now... We're discussing about wether it was a smart idea to reduce Lara's cupsize, and wether they're big/small enough now, right? :S

Just to clarify, my ideas of big, normal and small:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/archive/0/0e/20091114161257!Ivy_Valentine.png
Big (okay, HUGE (although she's sexy :P)!)

http://images.wikia.com/residentevil/images/7/78/Jill_Valentine_BSAA.jpg
Normal (still sexy)

http://www.gelderlander.nl/multimedia/archive/00853/Turnster_Johnson_be_853558a.jpg
Small (NOT sexy)

I think Lara went from semi-huge to the normal catagory, which is good.

Boobs... They'll never get boring :)

d1n0_xD
31st Aug 2011, 11:00
^ I'm with you, LARALOVER :D

And yeah, that's about where the discussion went XD

Driber
31st Aug 2011, 11:18
Boobs... They'll never get boring :)

You're such a typical Dutch guy :p :D

LARALOVERnr1
31st Aug 2011, 11:21
@d1n0_xD
lol. It was getting confusing XD

@Driber
Since when are Dutch guys famous for their interest in boobs? :P ;)

IvanaKC
31st Aug 2011, 11:26
I must say I disagree. When I was back at school, not 6 years ago, There was a particular girl who developed much faster than others (at 14 years of age she had Ds). When we used to do P.E. with proper rugby tops in the winter, which were quite tight fitting, and did cross-country she had to hold her boobs in one hand so they wouldn't keep smacking her in the face. So anything above a C would have a massive impact on athletic activies.

Alison Carrol isn't really a good example of an exception to athletic bodies as she is probably a 36c and who knows whether she's had implants. Well probably someone knows but I don't.

Sure not all athletic women are that petite but if you are that petite then you have a massive advantage and i'm guessing only girls that petite can perform maneuvers that Lara has done in the past.



:lol::lol::lol::lol: It's boobs discussion again, but even I have that girl in my class, and trust me, she wishes she has smaller boobs because of the back pain (yup, if you didn't know boys, boobs can do that and there is actually an esthetic operation to reduce breast size).

About Alison Carroll, she DOESN'T have big boobs, she must be wearing a push-up. Look at this pic: http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/103/1037750/alison-carroll-20091022051645580-000.jpg

LARALOVERnr1
31st Aug 2011, 11:31
About Alison Carroll, she DOESN'T have big boobs, she must be wearing a push-up. Look at this pic: http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/103/1037750/alison-carroll-20091022051645580-000.jpg
AHA! There goes your argument about athletes like Allison being able to have big boobs, Elliot Kane :rasp: ;) !

IvanaKC
31st Aug 2011, 11:44
AHA! There goes your argument about athletes like Allison being able to have big boobs, Elliot Kane :rasp: ;) !

Even I, who is complaining about Lara's breasts, can't deny reality. :D We all know what boobs are - glands and fat. Gymnasts usually train from childhood so they don't have fat. No fat, no boobs.

Driber
31st Aug 2011, 12:19
@Driber
Since when are Dutch guys famous for their interest in boobs? :P ;)

Not for their interest, but for their directness about it ;)


:lol::lol::lol::lol: It's boobs discussion again, but even I have that girl in my class, and trust me, she wishes she has smaller boobs because of the back pain (yup, if you didn't know boys, boobs can do that and there is actually an esthetic operation to reduce breast size).

So that is why my gf often wants me to give her backrubs! :lol:

But seriously, I'm well aware of that ;)


About Alison Carroll, she DOESN'T have big boobs, she must be wearing a push-up. Look at this pic: http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/103/1037750/alison-carroll-20091022051645580-000.jpg

Unless she got implants later on.

Wait....why am I even talking about this! What was the original subject again? :nut:

d1n0_xD
31st Aug 2011, 12:21
About Alison Carroll, she DOESN'T have big boobs, she must be wearing a push-up. Look at this pic: http://starsmedia.ign.com/stars/image/article/103/1037750/alison-carroll-20091022051645580-000.jpg

Haha, now that's a shock :eek: :lol: Once again, we were deceived by the wonders of push-up bras, tsk tsk tsk:D

Elliot Kane
31st Aug 2011, 13:17
AHA! There goes your argument about athletes like Allison being able to have big boobs, Elliot Kane :rasp: ;) !

Not really. It's pretty obvious in the picture I posted earlier that she's wearing a push up bra. My main point was that 'athletic' does not have to mean 'totally flat'. From more normal photos, she's probably a C-cup, which is fine, from my POV.

As long as Lara looks like a (Young as she's 21) woman, I have no problems. If she looks like she's stuck at age 12, the way many gymnasts do, I will not be happy...

Alison Anderson
31st Aug 2011, 15:35
haha yes another boob discussion lovely, my main point of this thread was to talk about her body overall not just her breasts. but it has gotten quiet interesting haha
----------------------------------
as long as CD doesn't decide to give lara "super implants" to meet the needs of the more "busty" public ehhmm.. this i suppose isn't correct. just imagine this women scaling a mountain.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUEkwrK9R3M

LadyRufina
31st Aug 2011, 16:01
Haha, now that's a shock :eek: :lol: Once again, we were deceived by the wonders of push-up bras, tsk tsk tsk:D

Not even a £1,000,000 push up can add 3 whole cup sizes, she has to have had implants. Which proves my point. It's not very suprising to see from what I know of who are the boys want Lara to have bigger boobs and the girls who want her to have smaller, but hey, that's obvious.

d1n0_xD
31st Aug 2011, 16:49
^ I'm really indifferent about those things, it's fine by me, one way or another :D
Now, it'd be weird to see flat-chests Lara, but you get my point :D

GoggleboxUK
31st Aug 2011, 17:42
As long as they're not using the original pyramids I think they'll be fine.

:lol:

Elliot Kane
31st Aug 2011, 17:46
I think I'm stepping back from the boob discussion, at least a bit, and returning to 'Underworld Lara has the best overall body shape, IMO'.

Athletic or not, I don't think any of us want Lara to resemble the proverbial Russian shot-putter. So it's really about the ideal mix between aesthetics and functionality. A degree of unreality is certainly desirable for any video games character, IMO.

Lara's strong = muscles like a shot putter
Supple = chest like most gymnasts (IE no boobs)
High endurance = legs like a marathon runner

Anyone REALLY want to see that Lara? I know I don't!

Lara_Fan_84
31st Aug 2011, 19:31
I've been with Lara since the beginning too. I'm very happy with her new look. She looks more realistic and more believable as a real person. I got tired of her large breasts because it wasn't realistic. Skinny people don't have a large breast size unless there's work done because all it is is fat. Obviously, the heavier you are the bigger the size and the skinnier you are the less size. Get the picture? :P

I especially like how she shows more emotion and isn't the tough guy we know. We'll be able to learn the stuff she went through and watch her become the Lara Croft we know. Despite the fact that we know this has nothing to do with the previous games.

LadyRufina
31st Aug 2011, 19:36
I think I'm stepping back from the boob discussion, at least a bit, and returning to 'Underworld Lara has the best overall body shape, IMO'.

Athletic or not, I don't think any of us want Lara to resemble the proverbial Russian shot-putter. So it's really about the ideal mix between aesthetics and functionality. A degree of unreality is certainly desirable for any video games character, IMO.

Lara's strong = muscles like a shot putter
Supple = chest like most gymnasts (IE no boobs)
High endurance = legs like a marathon runner

Anyone REALLY want to see that Lara? I know I don't!

She has a naturally athletic body, it doesn't mean she's an athlete. I'm not saying give her mosquito bites, just that if they're going to be utra-realistic then you can't just pick and choose what's going to be real and what can be 'mildly' exaggerated. Cs are fine that's all im saying. Any bigger and it's over-exaggerated again.

LARALOVERnr1
31st Aug 2011, 19:39
She has a naturally athletic body, it doesn't mean she's an athlete. I'm not saying give her mosquito bites

That made a nasty picture pop into my mind... Ewwwww.... :S

Anyways, I recommend reading all the comments from start to end again. It's pretty hilarious :lol:

Lara_Fan_84
31st Aug 2011, 23:37
I am a woman and I have to add to the fact that I play the game for Lara and her character. I get aggrivated though when I hear lots of people saying they want her to have bigger boobs (what do you want a triple D?) and one member wanted customizable boob size. So, I take it those members don't care about the game or about Lara as a character but only about her boobs. Sorry but as a woman I find this insulting. That is why I seem stuck on this subject. I don't want the new game ruined with extra large boob size or something as stupid as customizable boob size. I am happy with her size in the gameplay we saw. People want this game to be more realistic. Well, all I'm saying is extra large boob size on someone who is skinny isn't realistic unless it's surgical.

OK enough on that. I'm just trying to get it into the heads of the makers of the game especially that's all. I want to keep bringing it up until they either get the point and won't do it or until the game comes out.

Lara_Fan_84
31st Aug 2011, 23:39
She has a naturally athletic body, it doesn't mean she's an athlete. I'm not saying give her mosquito bites, just that if they're going to be utra-realistic then you can't just pick and choose what's going to be real and what can be 'mildly' exaggerated. Cs are fine that's all im saying. Any bigger and it's over-exaggerated again.

I agree. People want more realistic but then say they want unrealistic things, such as extra large breast size. :scratch:

Gemma_Darkmoon_
1st Sep 2011, 01:18
I do think Lara should have larger breasts but not super-large. I really like the notion that Lara has the sort of figure of the girls that are at risk of ending up down more sleezy modeling. Yet Lara is an inspiration in that she shows such tastefulness whilst being so sexy. She chooses a career based very much on her passion and uses her knowledge rather than her looks to succeed. It sends such a great message. A reduction of this scale sends such a bad signal to those girls with large breasts that they won't be taken seriously. To go too small isn't true to Lara either. There needs to be a balence between realism and the 'Lara look' and seems they went too far one way to too far the other. I wouldn't want her to fit pure athletic realism.

Looking at the new Lara I don't see her usual sexyness but that is far more down to the outfit choice than breast size. I am sure if they start geting some more revealing outfits out again then the guys will be happier. It's a shame Alison Carrol isn't the Lara model now as she looks just like I would imagine a real life Lara to look.

Elliot Kane
1st Sep 2011, 01:28
I do think Lara should have larger breasts but not super-large. I really like the notion that Lara has the sort of figure of the girls that are at risk of ending up down more sleezy modeling. Yet Lara is an inspiration in that she shows such tastefulness whilst being so sexy. She chooses a career based very much on her passion and uses her knowledge rather than her looks to succeed. It sends such a great message. A reduction of this scale sends such a bad signal to those girls with large breasts that they won't be taken seriously. To go too small isn't true to Lara either. There needs to be a balence between realism and the 'Lara look' and seems they went too far one way to too far the other. I wouldn't want her to fit pure athletic realism.

Yes! Exactly this! This is my view of Lara, too.

aussie500
1st Sep 2011, 01:39
I think it is great that the new Lara actually looks human for once. The old Lara with her oversize eyes and mouth and tiny nose always looked like some alien, which was fine back in the 90's when because of the graphics nothing looked realistic. Lara just never changed from her stylised exaggerated look though, she looked terrible when placed up against a more realistic looking character. And although I have never had any complaints about the breast size in the game model, the FMV model in the classic games looked gross, making Lara look like a blow up sex doll did nothing for her image as a serious adventurer.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Tomb%204/TR1-1.jpghttp://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j215/aussie500/Tomb%204/TR4FMV5.jpg

Driber
1st Sep 2011, 07:00
I am a woman and I have to add to the fact that I play the game for Lara and her character. I get aggrivated though when I hear lots of people saying they want her to have bigger boobs (what do you want a triple D?) and one member wanted customizable boob size. So, I take it those members don't care about the game or about Lara as a character but only about her boobs. Sorry but as a woman I find this insulting. That is why I seem stuck on this subject. I don't want the new game ruined with extra large boob size or something as stupid as customizable boob size. I am happy with her size in the gameplay we saw. People want this game to be more realistic. Well, all I'm saying is extra large boob size on someone who is skinny isn't realistic unless it's surgical.

I don't know where you heard the idea of customizable boob size, but that's pretty lame, I agree. Though you shouldn't lump it in with the discussion here and make it seem like people are boob obsessed.

Also, why does it aggravate you to hear people wishing Lara's boobs to be "restored"?

Lara has always had big boobs; it was part of her image for 15 years, even though some may argue that it was not.

If Lara has always had the same "moderate" boob size as in TR9 and then people would start to wish for bigger boobs, yes, that would be an entirely different thing and then you would have every right to be aggravated.

But people's wish for Lara to remain big busted because it's a part of her image since TR1, is a valid argument in my opinion.

(Again: personally, I'm happy to just sit back and see how this game will work out; I'm just standing up for those in the pro-big boob camp who seem to be unfairly criticized for their valid opinion.)


I do think Lara should have larger breasts but not super-large. I really like the notion that Lara has the sort of figure of the girls that are at risk of ending up down more sleezy modeling. Yet Lara is an inspiration in that she shows such tastefulness whilst being so sexy. She chooses a career based very much on her passion and uses her knowledge rather than her looks to succeed. It sends such a great message. A reduction of this scale sends such a bad signal to those girls with large breasts that they won't be taken seriously. To go too small isn't true to Lara either. There needs to be a balence between realism and the 'Lara look' and seems they went too far one way to too far the other. I wouldn't want her to fit pure athletic realism.

:thumb:


... making Lara look like a blow up sex doll did nothing for her image as a serious adventurer.
{pics}

I have to disagree. The TR1 pic you posted was her image. Lara wasn't a "serious adventurer", as you claim. It's always been "for sports" (direct quote from TR1) to her.

Just because you don't like that part of Lara's image, doesn't mean it didn't exist :cool:

LadyRufina
1st Sep 2011, 10:28
I don't know where you heard the idea of customizable boob size, but that's pretty lame, I agree. Though you shouldn't lump it in with the discussion here and make it seem like people are boob obsessed.

Also, why does it aggravate you to hear people wishing Lara's boobs to be "restored"?

Lara has always had big boobs; it was part of her image for 15 years, even though some may argue that it was not.

If Lara has always had the same "moderate" boob size as in TR9 and then people would start to wish for bigger boobs, yes, that would be an entirely different thing and then you would have every right to be aggravated.

But people's wish for Lara to remain big busted because it's a part of her image since TR1, is a valid argument in my opinion.

(Again: personally, I'm happy to just sit back and see how this game will work out; I'm just standing up for those in the pro-big boob camp who seem to be unfairly criticized for their valid opinion.)



:thumb:



I have to disagree. The TR1 pic you posted was her image. Lara wasn't a "serious adventurer", as you claim. It's always been "for sports" (direct quote from TR1) to her.

Just because you don't like that part of Lara's image, doesn't mean it didn't exist :cool:

I agree with it being Lara's image back then but times have changed and if Lara has to be rebooted and realistic-ed, then so do her boobs im afraid :\

LARALOVERnr1
1st Sep 2011, 17:00
Wow, is this discussion still going?

hiMe
1st Sep 2011, 20:50
I think Legend Lara is beautiful. Although Underworld Lara would suit a more athletic physique.

And honestly D+ with what she wears...nuh-uh. Not possible.

I find it hard to run without holding onto my bosoms. I can't imagine Lara having Bosoms like in the older games. Realisticly, she'd be lucky if she can jog away from dinosaurs. :lol:

But I like how she looks in TOMB RAIDER. Her physique looks very realistic for a 21yr old :3

Alison Anderson
2nd Sep 2011, 02:21
I think Legend Lara is beautiful. Although Underworld Lara would suit a more athletic physique.

And honestly D+ with what she wears...nuh-uh. Not possible.

I find it hard to run without holding onto my bosoms. I can't imagine Lara having Bosoms like in the older games. Realisticly, she'd be lucky if she can jog away from dinosaurs. :lol:

But I like how she looks in TOMB RAIDER. Her physique looks very realistic for a 21yr old :3

correct, Newton's law of inertia states that a body in motion tends to stay in motion. So, girls! your bosoms (if you walk or run) do bounce and move alot under your shirt. not to sound super preverted but if CD want's a a realistic look they should make Lara's breast realistic also. not perky.

just saying. :whistle:

The_Hylden
2nd Sep 2011, 04:58
Er ... I think her body and her face, like the banner above anyway, are all great. She has the best look of being the most realistic that I've seen (one of the most realistic character models yet) and I can't wait for the game. I did like her look from Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld. Underworld gave her some sweet shoulder muscles and really made you feel like she was as strong as her upper body should be for all she was out doing, as well as pretty amazing facial animations. Shame the game, overall, wasn't as great as the graphic and audio upgrades.

This looks to be the whole package that CD is capable of producing, so I definitely am waiting with anticipation :)

Driber
2nd Sep 2011, 09:45
^ hehe, first post which answers the OP's actual question without touching Lara's boobs (no pun intended) (...maybe)


Yes, I agree. Visual Works did an amazing job on the face/skin/muscles/expression/etc

In some of the trailer stills it's hard, if possible at all, to differentiate Lara from a photo of a real person :eek:

This result just begs for a full theatrical CGI movie!

d1n0_xD
2nd Sep 2011, 10:50
This result just begs for a full theatrical CGI movie!

Amen to that :D

Flintmelody
2nd Sep 2011, 13:18
I think her body and her face, like the banner above anyway, are all great.

The banner for me represents exactly how not to do a Lara Croft face. LC has a smooth rounded chin and nothing like the chin in the banner. The whole look is too boyish and I find the concept arts are the worst Lara look ever. We are so fortunate the in-game stuff looks way better.

The CGI trailer Lara aside from the breast size being too small really looks fantastic. They should have screengrabbed that and would be ten times better as a banner here and for other media releases. If they could just get a little more top-heavyness to her profile and a more sexy outfit then would be superb.

LadyRufina
2nd Sep 2011, 14:00
The banner for me represents exactly how not to do a Lara Croft face. LC has a smooth rounded chin and nothing like the chin in the banner. The whole look is too boyish and I find the concept arts are the worst Lara look ever. We are so fortunate the in-game stuff looks way better.

The CGI trailer Lara aside from the breast size being too small really looks fantastic. They should have screengrabbed that and would be ten times better as a banner here and for other media releases. If they could just get a little more top-heavyness to her profile and a more sexy outfit then would be superb.

But she has a slim frame and she's only 21. She is supposed to have those sized boobs. She can't be that slim with Ds. Those boobs are quite big for her body as it is. And a sexy outfit would just be ridiculous on this kind of expedition. I'm sure if she minced around in tiny shorts like she did in the originals, Roth would say something if it was real life. Her outfit is perfectly adequate for her expedition.

Elliot Kane
2nd Sep 2011, 14:59
I don't think she needs sexier outfits, but otherwise I agree with Flint.

LARALOVERnr1
2nd Sep 2011, 15:31
Wait, are we starting about outfits now? :S I can't see what's wrong with the outfit she has now. The only thing that's missing is a jacket for cold situations or something.

As for the CGI movie; Hell yes, but that's something for another thread.

hiMe
2nd Sep 2011, 18:52
If anything her clothes are more suitable now than they ever were before! :P

Plus it's cosplay friendly for those winter-y seasons >> hehe...

I think her skin looks very fresh and young too and a perfect tone for a traveller. She's still recognisably Lara, so for me that's fine. As long as they don't add a huge bum chin and knobbly knees. Or anything drastic :3

d1n0_xD
2nd Sep 2011, 21:11
She's still recognisably Lara, so for me that's fine.

Exactly! :thumb:

Lara_Fan_84
2nd Sep 2011, 22:26
]I don't know where you heard the idea of customizable boob size, but that's pretty lame, I agree. [/B]Though you shouldn't lump it in with the discussion here and make it seem like people are boob obsessed.

Someone put it as one of their wishes on the wish thread. ;)

Lara_Fan_84
2nd Sep 2011, 22:29
I don't know where you heard the idea of customizable boob size, but that's pretty lame, I agree. Though you shouldn't lump it in with the discussion here and make it seem like people are boob obsessed.

Also, why does it aggravate you to hear people wishing Lara's boobs to be "restored"?

Lara has always had big boobs; it was part of her image for 15 years, even though some may argue that it was not.


Someone's wish for the wishes thread was for customizable boob size. It bothers me because I don't want her to have overly large boobs. It's not realistic for someone of her weight and size. People want more realistic but then they ask for nonrealistic things. I am just tired of Lara being seen by some as a sex symbol instead of a female video game character.

Elliot Kane
2nd Sep 2011, 22:53
I am just tired of Lara being seen by some as a sex symbol instead of a female video game character.

Can't she be both?

I don't think anyone wants total realism. We're just debating the degree of unrealism that's desirable :)

WinterSoldierLTE
2nd Sep 2011, 23:22
I am just tired of Lara being seen by some as a sex symbol instead of a female video game character.

Agreed. While she is both, to the mass populace of non-TR fans, Lara was, is, and always will be T&A. But really, if you go and look up some of the old adverts for the first 6 TR games, it's how she was marketed so it's not Joe Blow Neverplayedone's fault for thinking that. When the only positive review on the box of a game comes from Maxim Magazine, you know the world only sees one thing in her (that'd be "A.O.D."s box art, btw. No one's gonna convince me that anyone at Maxim,then or now, knows diddly poo about video games. They're much too worried about getting Alyssa Milano on the phone to scheduled a pohoto shoot to be bothered.)

Anyways, I'm with ya, and I'm sure everyone else is as well. There is a character there (a great one at that), the trick is to show everyone else who's never bothered to look. I'm hoping this game does that.

Right then, rant over, raid on.




As in "Tomb Raid" on, not cockroach killer "Raid" on. Tho if anyone does have roaches they most certainly should Raid raid on.

Gemma_Darkmoon_
3rd Sep 2011, 01:12
If anything her clothes are more suitable now than they ever were before! :P

More suitable perhaps but I just think there is something missing. Lara has always chosen great fashionable and sleek outfits and wouldn't feel like her if we get just plain more realistic stuff. When I play Resi 5 I have Sheva dressed in an over the top red riding hood costume or a rather skimpy tribal outfit which is completely daft in a realism sence for fighting zombies. What I am saying is that given the choice of outfits I would always choose the flamboyant and stylish over the completely realistic. Is much better if CD give us that choice and so I hope some more signiture Lara outfits make it into the game.


Someone's wish for the wishes thread was for customizable boob size. It bothers me because I don't want her to have overly large boobs. It's not realistic for someone of her weight and size. People want more realistic but then they ask for nonrealistic things. I am just tired of Lara being seen by some as a sex symbol instead of a female video game character.

Customisable breast would be terrible as would draw even more attention to them than before and it cheepens the game.

Lara is both a female video game character AND a sex symbol. It would take such a large move to shift Lara completely away from being a sex symbol and the result probably wouldn't be that great anyway. The new game will have a Lara that is far less sexualised and I don't think that the desexualisation should go too much further than that. Sex appeal is a part of Lara's identity and she should remain sexy. Myself, I would like to see some more cheeky flirting like she did with Larson in the new game.

LARALOVERnr1
3rd Sep 2011, 12:09
More suitable perhaps but I just think there is something missing. Lara has always chosen great fashionable and sleek outfits and wouldn't feel like her if we get just plain more realistic stuff. When I play Resi 5 I have Sheva dressed in an over the top red riding hood costume or a rather skimpy tribal outfit which is completely daft in a realism sence for fighting zombies. What I am saying is that given the choice of outfits I would always choose the flamboyant and stylish over the completely realistic. Is much better if CD give us that choice and so I hope some more signiture Lara outfits make it into the game.
I also liked Sheva and Chris' extra outfits, but that's because they where optional and a reward for completing the game.
I'd love to have some additional outfits in TR, but only if they're unlockable and can't be worn during the first playthrough. Her basic outfit should be realistic and fit the game and environment, and that's excactly what it does now.

Driber
3rd Sep 2011, 14:19
Someone's wish for the wishes thread was for customizable boob size.

And I added it to the list? Shame on me, lol.


...in a realism sence for fighting zombies...

Realistically fighting.......zombies? :lol:


Sex appeal is a part of Lara's identity and she should remain sexy. Myself, I would like to see some more cheeky flirting like she did with Larson in the new game.

I'm sure we'll get to see her playful cheekiness / flirting again.

Maybe not in this game, if it doesn't fit anywhere in the story, but I can't imagine Lara turned into a tom boy for the rest of the franchise.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 14:26
Can't she be both?

I don't think anyone wants total realism. We're just debating the degree of unrealism that's desirable :)

But can't a female video-game character just be a video-game character? Why does she have to be a sex symbol? I know Lara needed that to break through to the video-game industry but surely she still doesn't need it. This is CDs' chance to make a game with a female antagonist without the 'sexy' stigma attatched to it.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 14:43
But can't a female video-game character just be a video-game character? Why does she have to be a sex symbol? I know Lara needed that to break through to the video-game industry but surely she still doesn't need it. This is CDs' chance to make a game with a female antagonist without the 'sexy' stigma attatched to it.

Why do you think 'sexy' is a stigma, Lady R? Is it really wrong for beautiful girls to be seen as capable, confident and intelligent, too?

I think Lara appeals to female gamers because she is all of those things. You can't take any of those things away without detracting from the whole.

Lara has always been sexy, but she's sophisticated with it. It's the sexiness of natural beauty allied to confidence, not the faux-sexiness of falling out of her clothes at every opportunity. There's a huge difference in those two things.

Lara is THE female video game icon. She has been from the moment she first appeared. And part of the reason for that is that she is sexy.

Driber
3rd Sep 2011, 15:47
But can't a female video-game character just be a video-game character? Why does she have to be a sex symbol? I know Lara needed that to break through to the video-game industry but surely she still doesn't need it. This is CDs' chance to make a game with a female antagonist without the 'sexy' stigma attatched to it.

By calling sexiness a "stigma", you are suggesting that being sexy is a bad and unwanted thing. This isn't, or if it is because it's the PC thing to believe, then it shouldn't be.

And I don't think anyone argues that a female videogame character has to be a sex symbol; there are plenty of female characters in other games that aren't.

BTW, I'm sure you meant protagonist ;)

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 16:16
By calling sexiness a "stigma", you are suggesting that being sexy is a bad and unwanted thing. This isn't, or if it is because it's the PC thing to believe, then it shouldn't be.

And I don't think anyone argues that a female videogame character has to be a sex symbol; there are plenty of female characters in other games that aren't.

BTW, I'm sure you meant protagonist ;)

Yes yes, I though I wrote protagonist but just wrote antagonist I don't look back at what I write when I type. But in a way it is a stigma. I just think that most of the people posting in here, and maybe just sub-contiously, are saying that she has to have big boobs which will make her sexy. I just don't want her to appeal to new people to the franchise to buy the game because of her big boobs. Maybe i'm not too worried about her being sexy but just the fact that a lot of the people posting are asking for big boobs because she doesn't look sexy enough, like a woman can't be sexy without Ds.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 16:23
Why do you think 'sexy' is a stigma, Lady R? Is it really wrong for beautiful girls to be seen as capable, confident and intelligent, too?

I think Lara appeals to female gamers because she is all of those things. You can't take any of those things away without detracting from the whole.

Lara has always been sexy, but she's sophisticated with it. It's the sexiness of natural beauty allied to confidence, not the faux-sexiness of falling out of her clothes at every opportunity. There's a huge difference in those two things.

Lara is THE female video game icon. She has been from the moment she first appeared. And part of the reason for that is that she is sexy.

Sexy and beautiful are two different things. You can be beautiful without being sexy and I just think Lara looking sexy in this installment will take away the whole feel of the game. Sure she's going to be beautiful and I have nothing whatsoever against that. But I just can't see why there would be any sexiness to her character in a survival/horror game. I know you might add Sheva and Jill in your next post as a counter but maybe it's just I need to see it from a boys perspective but I just see Sheva and Jill as beautiful, not sexy but know it's probably what the makers of RE:5 tried to make them as.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 17:28
Sexy and beautiful are two different things. You can be beautiful without being sexy and I just think Lara looking sexy in this installment will take away the whole feel of the game. Sure she's going to be beautiful and I have nothing whatsoever against that. But I just can't see why there would be any sexiness to her character in a survival/horror game. I know you might add Sheva and Jill in your next post as a counter but maybe it's just I need to see it from a boys perspective but I just see Sheva and Jill as beautiful, not sexy but know it's probably what the makers of RE:5 tried to make them as.

A beautiful woman who is both intelligent and confident is by definition sexy, Lady R. Throw in that beautiful cultured voice Lara has and it's completely inescapable.

There are two types of sexy - those people who just have sex appeal because they are born with it and those who make themselves sexy because of who they are. Lara's always been the latter type and I don't think there's any way of really removing it short of changing everything about her.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 18:12
A beautiful woman who is both intelligent and confident is by definition sexy, Lady R. Throw in that beautiful cultured voice Lara has and it's completely inescapable.

There are two types of sexy - those people who just have sex appeal because they are born with it and those who make themselves sexy because of who they are. Lara's always been the latter type and I don't think there's any way of really removing it short of changing everything about her.

Sexy, I guess, is another thing that people have to decide by themselves what they think is. Obviously I guess different things attract different people. I guess things like accents can be sexy to people like I know a lot of english girls including me who find Italian and French accents sexy. Obviously intelligence and confidence is sexy to you. I don't really find intelligence sexy, I don't know how to find intelligence sexy. But hey, i'm a heterosexual girl so i'm never gonna find Lara sexy but I see how she can be seen as sexy to boys and men, just that I don't think sexy is the definition of a D cup breast so why can't a 21-year-old, athleticly built Lara just have a C cup or below because that is what she would naturally have and still be seen as 'sexy?'

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 18:31
Sexy, I guess, is another thing that people have to decide by themselves what they think is. Obviously I guess different things attract different people. I guess things like accents can be sexy to people like I know a lot of english girls including me who find Italian and French accents sexy. Obviously intelligence and confidence is sexy to you. I don't really find intelligence sexy, I don't know how to find intelligence sexy. But hey, i'm a heterosexual girl so i'm never gonna find Lara sexy but I see how she can be seen as sexy to boys and men, just that I don't think sexy is the definition of a D cup breast so why can't a 21-year-old, athleticly built Lara just have a C cup or below because that is what she would naturally have and still be seen as 'sexy?'

Not quite sure how we got back onto boob size, here. 'Sexy' is not related to the size of a woman's boobs, no. Sexy is a lot more about who she is.

As for 'naturally', there are plenty of women who are very fit AND have boobs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 18:51
Not quite sure how we got back onto boob size, here. 'Sexy' is not related to the size of a woman's boobs, no. Sexy is a lot more about who she is.

As for 'naturally', there are plenty of women who are very fit AND have boobs. The two are not mutually exclusive.

No not exclusive but women born with a naturally athletic body tend to have smaller boobs, not tiny, but very very rarely above a C and Lara should have an edge at birth and be built athletically. A C cup is quite generous but obviously Lara would have the biggest sized breasts realisticly possible but I don't think a D is unless she wasn't born with an athletic build and she wouldn't be as supple and fast as some other girls her age so wouldn't be exceptional at what we know her to be.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 19:00
Not always the case, Lady R. I've met some otherwise slim girls with large busts. They're rare, sure, but they happen.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 19:22
Not always the case, Lady R. I've met some otherwise slim girls with large busts. They're rare, sure, but they happen.

Not just slim, but athletic. There is a big difference. You got your Slender Scarlets, Fit Fionas, Curvy Carlas, Booty Bettys, Plus-size Pennys and so on. And even then, probably the slim girls were bigger before but kept their big boobs. I've always said it's rare, never impossible but why does Lara have to be the exception and defy the fact that women with Cs can be seen as sexy?

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 19:35
Not just slim, but athletic. There is a big difference. You got your Slender Scarlets, Fit Fionas, Curvy Carlas, Booty Bettys, Plus-size Pennys and so on. And even then, probably the slim girls were bigger before but kept their big boobs. I've always said it's rare, never impossible but why does Lara have to be the exception and defy the fact that women with Cs can be seen as sexy?

Nothing at all says women with Cs can't be sexy. Doesn't mean Lara has to have Cs. Or any other size, for that matter. I think most would agree that Lara has 'big' boobs - but 'big' is relative, anyway.

I couldn't actually say what size boobs Lara has in Underworld, just that her body looks properly proportioned, to me, so that's the model I favour most.

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 20:00
Nothing at all says women with Cs can't be sexy. Doesn't mean Lara has to have Cs. Or any other size, for that matter. I think most would agree that Lara has 'big' boobs - but 'big' is relative, anyway.

I couldn't actually say what size boobs Lara has in Underworld, just that her body looks properly proportioned, to me, so that's the model I favour most.

She most probably has Ds and she is the best proportioned other than this Lara but I still think her boobs were a cup size too big in Underworld because she did have a very athletic frame i.e muscley arms and legs and broader shoulders. Im just saying if they want her to be realistic then they have to go the full hog and not just put in some of the stuff because the guys want it.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 20:30
She most probably has Ds and she is the best proportioned other than this Lara but I still think her boobs were a cup size too big in Underworld because she did have a very athletic frame i.e muscley arms and legs and broader shoulders. Im just saying if they want her to be realistic then they have to go the full hog and not just put in some of the stuff because the guys want it.

If Lara were a new character, no-one would care. You only have to look at the Final Fantasy girls to see that. Most of them are very slim with B cups (Or C at absolute most, but they're rarer). I've never yet seen 'Rinoa needs bigger boobs' or 'Yuna should be a DD'.

But Lara Croft has big boobs. Every gamer knows it, even those who have never played a TR game. It's like her hair being brown and her eyes the same - it's just a part of her established physique.

Sure, a character model could be created who is blue eyed, blonde haired and with B cup boobs. She could be entirely realistic looking in every way. But would she be Lara Croft?

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 20:52
If Lara were a new character, no-one would care. You only have to look at the Final Fantasy girls to see that. Most of them are very slim with B cups (Or C at absolute most, but they're rarer). I've never yet seen 'Rinoa needs bigger boobs' or 'Yuna should be a DD'.

But Lara Croft has big boobs. Every gamer knows it, even those who have never played a TR game. It's like her hair being brown and her eyes the same - it's just a part of her established physique.

Sure, a character model could be created who is blue eyed, blonde haired and with B cup boobs. She could be entirely realistic looking in every way. But would she be Lara Croft?

But that's like saying every gamer knows that Lara has dual pistols yet in this game she doesn't (from what we know). Besides, the FF girls are all like ridiculously skinny, like anorexic skinny from what I know of as I don't really play those games so having big boobs would just be ridiculous.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 21:04
But that's like saying every gamer knows that Lara has dual pistols yet in this game she doesn't (from what we know). Besides, the FF girls are all like ridiculously skinny, like anorexic skinny from what I know of as I don't really play those games so having big boobs would just be ridiculous.

No-one ever complains that they don't because that's the characters as they were created to be.

And if Lara does not get her twin pistols by the end of TR9, how long do you think it'll be until the complaints start?

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 21:11
No-one ever complains that they don't because that's the characters as they were created to be.

And if Lara does not get her twin pistols by the end of TR9, how long do you think it'll be until the complaints start?

Not very long but what's the point of a reboot if you can't reboot anything? Odds are someone's always gonna moan about something being taken out and so far i'm happy with what CD has decided to take out including the massive boobs. To be honest i'll be a little unhappy without the dual pistols but I don't think it'll be the weapon of choice for Lara really seeing as it doesn't look like she's had any weapon training so why weild two weapons when it would seem hard enough for her to weild one?

LARALOVERnr1
3rd Sep 2011, 21:16
People, Final Fantasy isn't related to Tomb Raider in any way other than Square Enix, so I don't think you can compare the female characters with Lara.
I think we can compare her better with someone who does the same things Lara does to.
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2009/10/340x_custom_1255520386859_chloe-01.jpg
Chloe here is an adventurer, just like Lara, and has a busy lifestyle, just like Lara. However, Chloe has a very different built. She is rather slim and not very muscular, and judging by this picture, I'd say she has a cup B, or maybe even a small C. Though she looks rather realistic, it's very unlikely she could be raiding tombs and running away from badguys while dodging bullets and stuff almost every day, and still stay that slim.
Lara has more muscles, due to her active lifestyle, and has some junk in the front trunk (totally made that up lol) as well.
Bottom line is: Big boobs don't fit that look, so they had to me made smaller in order for her to look more realistic.
I think realistic boobs should be smaller than the head of the person they are attatched to. Anything larger and it'll look fake.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gundamjehutykai/wonder%20festival/bayonettacolour3.jpg:S

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 21:36
Not very long but what's the point of a reboot if you can't reboot anything? Odds are someone's always gonna moan about something being taken out and so far i'm happy with what CD has decided to take out including the massive boobs. To be honest i'll be a little unhappy without the dual pistols but I don't think it'll be the weapon of choice for Lara really seeing as it doesn't look like she's had any weapon training so why weild two weapons when it would seem hard enough for her to weild one?

That's my own argument in favour of leaving the twin pistols out of the first game, so I'm hardly about to dispute that! :)

Overall look is something else, though. Lara needs to look like Lara, else where's the point in a reboot at all?

Might as well create an entirely new character, say she's Lara's daughter and let her take over the franchise: 'Sara Croft, Tomb Raider'. She can have boobs whatever size you like, seeing as she's a new character! :D

Still not sure why the fascination with boobs, though...

***

Laralover,

I came across Chloe amongst the XNA Lara characters, but I figured she was a girlfriend or a sidekick or something. She doesn't look remotely like a Tomb Raider type, to me. Too feeble looking. Where's she from?

LadyRufina
3rd Sep 2011, 21:49
That's my own argument in favour of leaving the twin pistols out of the first game, so I'm hardly about to dispute that! :)

Overall look is something else, though. Lara needs to look like Lara, else where's the point in a reboot at all?

Might as well create an entirely new character, say she's Lara's daughter and let her take over the franchise: 'Sara Croft, Tomb Raider'. She can have boobs whatever size you like, seeing as she's a new character! :D

Still not sure why the fascination with boobs, though...

But Laras' frame can only hold up to a C! If you were a woman you would know that slim girls can't handle Ds, I think only a girl can understand that big girls have big boobs because they have more fat and all boobs are are fat so the fatter you are the bigger the boobs. Lara's frame would get back pain from a D cup just from standing up let alone running all over the joint on some japanese island the poor thing would snap! Plus how is she going to handly jumping from cliff to cliff when her boobs will bang into it and trust me, I got hit there with an iron accidentally and I cried for like 7 hours. Maybe i'm trying to make the game too realistic and taking the fun away from the game but CD are doing the right thing by making her boobs size smaller.

Elliot Kane
3rd Sep 2011, 22:40
Just so we're totally clear, this is Underworld Lara, which I am in favour of:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/ElliotKane/th_UndLara.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v41/ElliotKane/?action=view&current=UndLara.jpg)

It is the actual model, as ported to XNA Lara. I lowered her arms, lowered her pony tail then took the shots from right, left and front.

Does anyone think Lara's boobs look disproportionate or in any way out of scale for her, there? Coz I have to say I don't...

RosePetals
4th Sep 2011, 04:23
@Topic (Since the thread is "Lara's body" and not "Lara's boobs" :D:

Just a theory: I feel like her body was modeled on one of the designers daughters. I'm loving all the baby fat! It's so natural! :)

d1n0_xD
4th Sep 2011, 08:21
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2009/10/340x_custom_1255520386859_chloe-01.jpg
Chloe here is an adventurer, just like Lara, and has a busy lifestyle, just like Lara. However, Chloe has a very different built. She is rather slim and not very muscular, and judging by this picture, I'd say she has a cup B, or maybe even a small C. Though she looks rather realistic, it's very unlikely she could be raiding tombs and running away from badguys while dodging bullets and stuff almost every day, and still stay that slim.


Man, do I love her :D And you're right, she doesn't have big cups but still is sexy... ( I LOVE female protagonists, but not in that weird way, it's just you rarely see that in the games :D for example, I always pick Zoe in L4D :D that's why I love Lara and Tomb Raider, kick-ass women disproving the men-are-stronger-and-all-kinds-of-stuff-than-women steretype :D )


To be honest i'll be a little unhappy without the dual pistols but I don't think it'll be the weapon of choice for Lara really seeing as it doesn't look like she's had any weapon training so why weild two weapons when it would seem hard enough for her to weild one?

Funny thing is, I always prefered that magnum pistol instead of the dual-pistols :D Seeing the game long-term, yeah, it would be kinda weird if she doesn't weild those, but in this game, I wouldn't even mind if she doesn't get them, mid-game or at the end of the game :D I expect that, in the next game, she'll just have them... No drama how she got them, 'cause you know, she probably buyed them :D


Where's she from?

Uncharted :D


Just so we're totally clear, this is Underworld Lara, which I am in favour of:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v41/ElliotKane/th_UndLara.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v41/ElliotKane/?action=view&current=UndLara.jpg)



You're right, she's perfect there ^^


Just a theory: I feel like her body was modeled on one of the designers daughters. I'm loving all the baby fat! It's so natural! :)

And cute too haha :D She looks awesome in-game, no doubt about that :D


P.S. Sorry if I'm little offtopic :D

AdobeArtist
4th Sep 2011, 08:37
Part of Lara's success comes from her looks but I agree with you that sexiness doesn't just come from looks. Part of her sexiness comes though fantastic stylish outfits but just look at the horrid boring, unsexy outfit they have stuck her in for the new game. That outfit choice represents non of Lara's style and represents another effort to erode who Lara is. She goes for style and functionality AND CERTAINLY NOT just functionality alone. This more emotional Lara probably ain't going to have as much wit dealing with the guys either.

My fav CD Lara moment is when she turns up at the party in the Japan dress. Really sexy yet so classy too and combined with Lara attitude is just amazing. The desexualisation of Lara that some of CD want if achieved would be nothing short of disastrous for the character. To lose that would be losing a massive part of who Lara is (far more than breast tissue).



I have said several times, that I am a huge fan of the outfit selections, especially the ones that diversify Lara's style. But as I keep saying repeatedly, you gotta also look at the CONTEXT of the game as well.

I did say that what defined Lara's sexiness was her sense of style and culture, far more than her body. But where this game's setting is one of survival - being completely cut off from civilization and any stability, having to endure the most grueling of hardships without any support of supplies, save that which she can salvage, and mainly having only her wits and resourcefulness to rely on, style has no place here at all.

Her appearance must be a reflection of the hard conditions that she must endure. I LOVED the dress she wore in Tokyo, but where will she get one on an uncharted island? The whole point of the story is that Lara is left with NO options at all, and must make it through this only with what she has, as little as that is.

In this case her sexiness will come far more from her character, which I did also say was a crucial factor in what made Lara beautiful, not merely her body ;)

Now in all this, I am not saying that a pleasing figure doesn't factor into the equation. Yeah she's gotta have some curves, all part of being a woman after all. What I AM debating is how some people place too much emphasis on getting so specific on her physique. It's like they're taking a measuring tape and comparing her new body to the old and quibbling over inches here and there.

As it stands, the new Lara does have a very womanly appeal in her body, and it shouldn't matter that it's not an exact match to what we has before. She's still got curves in all the right places, only now with a more anatomically realistic and proportionate way, that it makes the sex appeal far stronger for being more believable.

The old Lara is a product of outdated standards of what the tech was able to produce, and where most characters were still a cartoonish attempt to depict "real" human characters, as a result of limited polygons to work with. Lara should NOT be held back by those standards any more, it's time to bring her into the contemporary age of game and character design.


By calling sexiness a "stigma", you are suggesting that being sexy is a bad and unwanted thing. This isn't, or if it is because it's the PC thing to believe, then it shouldn't be.

And I don't think anyone argues that a female videogame character has to be a sex symbol; there are plenty of female characters in other games that aren't.



Oh god Driber, you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear this. I am SO tired of sex appeal being so criminalized in this day and age. :mad2: Why did it become so wrong? Well I guess it is if that's the ONLY quality a woman has going for her.

But we KNOW that's just not the case for Lara. She's got intelligence, wit, charm, culture, courage, dedication, grace, and sophistication going for her as well. Those other qualities shouldn't be diminished by sex appeal, and the sex appeal doesn't have to exclude the other.

It doesn't have to be that a woman can only be hot or strong/intelligent, just one or the other, when it can easily be BOTH, which always makes for the more compelling character.

I'll put it another way. I think we'd all agree that a beautiful woman should also be appreciated for her other qualities (humour, charm, intelligence, compassion, etc...). Not to allow looks to blind you to what's inside should always be practiced. But it seems some people get this idea that the looks must be completely ignored to show that they're "admiring all the good traits" of a woman. Does beauty not deserve just as much attention as everything else?

I would even go so far as to say, that dismissing beauty in order to compliment the other qualities is just as much a disservice, as paying attention only to her looks and not seeing the inner qualities.

I'm a totally straight dude, but I might have a man crush now ;) :o :flowers:

Elliot Kane
4th Sep 2011, 09:35
Thanks for telling me where Chloe's from, d1no :)

(And yes, Underworld Lara is perfect :))

LadyRufina
4th Sep 2011, 10:46
I have said several times, that I am a huge fan of the outfit selections, especially the ones that diversify Lara's style. But as I keep saying repeatedly, you gotta also look at the CONTEXT of the game as well.

I did say that what defined Lara's sexiness was her sense of style and culture, far more than her body. But where this game's setting is one of survival - being completely cut off from civilization and any stability, having to endure the most grueling of hardships without any support of supplies, save that which she can salvage, and mainly having only her wits and resourcefulness to rely on, style has no place here at all.

Her appearance must be a reflection of the hard conditions that she must endure. I LOVED the dress she wore in Tokyo, but where will she get one on an uncharted island? The whole point of the story is that Lara is left with NO options at all, and must make it through this only with what she has, as little as that is.

In this case her sexiness will come far more from her character, which I did also say was a crucial factor in what made Lara beautiful, not merely her body ;)

Now in all this, I am not saying that a pleasing figure doesn't factor into the equation. Yeah she's gotta have some curves, all part of being a woman after all. What I AM debating is how some people place too much emphasis on getting so specific on her physique. It's like they're taking a measuring tape and comparing her new body to the old and quibbling over inches here and there.

As it stands, the new Lara does have a very womanly appeal in her body, and it shouldn't matter that it's not an exact match to what we has before. She's still got curves in all the right places, only now with a more anatomically realistic and proportionate way, that it makes the sex appeal far stronger for being more believable.

The old Lara is a product of outdated standards of what the tech was able to produce, and where most characters were still a cartoonish attempt to depict "real" human characters, as a result of limited polygons to work with. Lara should NOT be held back by those standards any more, it's time to bring her into the contemporary age of game and character design.



Oh god Driber, you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear this. I am SO tired of sex appeal being so criminalized in this day and age. :mad2: Why did it become so wrong? Well I guess it is if that's the ONLY quality a woman has going for her.

But we KNOW that's just not the case for Lara. She's got intelligence, wit, charm, culture, courage, dedication, grace, and sophistication going for her as well. Those other qualities shouldn't be diminished by sex appeal, and the sex appeal doesn't have to exclude the other.

It doesn't have to be that a woman can only be hot or strong/intelligent, just one or the other, when it can easily be BOTH, which always makes for the more compelling character.

I'll put it another way. I think we'd all agree that a beautiful woman should also be appreciated for her other qualities (humour, charm, intelligence, compassion, etc...). Not to allow looks to blind you to what's inside should always be practiced. But it seems some people get this idea that the looks must be completely ignored to show that they're "admiring all the good traits" of a woman. Does beauty not deserve just as much attention as everything else?

I would even go so far as to say, that dismissing beauty in order to compliment the other qualities is just as much a disservice, as paying attention only to her looks and not seeing the inner qualities.

I'm a totally straight dude, but I might have a man crush now ;) :o :flowers:

But sex appeal is a bad thing for Lara in this case. A lot of people that posted in here want her to have big boobs, end of. They can't see her as being sexy without Ds. I don't want the game to be succesfull just because she has big boobs and none of the gamers admire Lara for her other qualities like her intelligence and wit because let's be honest, quite a few of the male gamers here don't care about. I wouldn't mind for Lara to be sexy but the stigma attatched to it is that Lara isn't sexy with C cups or lower and people have proved that stigma to be true by in a nut-shell, saying that she doesn't look sexy now because she doesn't have big boobs.

Cristiavano
4th Sep 2011, 14:53
so you take this screenshot...

width='200'


Now compare that to this from Underworld (similar angle)...

width='200'

There is a difference, but I'm wondering if it's not as much as we'd think

like mother like daughter they both have similar breasts :O and yes i'm reffering to this Lara as a daughter

d1n0_xD
4th Sep 2011, 15:13
Boobs aside, their face is similar too :D

AdobeArtist
4th Sep 2011, 15:38
Boobs aside, their face is similar too :D

When the GI cover was first revealed, people fought me when I said that even being adjusted along realistically proportioned facial structure (nose, eyes, cheek bone, etc..), her face was still immediately recognizable as Lara :wave:

Andy64
5th Sep 2011, 01:43
It doesn't have to be that a woman can only be hot or strong/intelligent, just one or the other, when it can easily be BOTH, which always makes for the more compelling character.

Maybe CD have made it look too much like they are treating hotness and intellegence as opposites on a scale where reducing one increases the other. Not a good viewpoint. If they want to show intellegence or connectability more should really bring it out rather than subtracting from other traits. Lara is both hot and strong/intellegent and they need to show both.


But sex appeal is a bad thing for Lara in this case. A lot of people that posted in here want her to have big boobs, end of. They can't see her as being sexy without Ds. I don't want the game to be succesfull just because she has big boobs and none of the gamers admire Lara for her other qualities like her intelligence and wit because let's be honest, quite a few of the male gamers here don't care about. I wouldn't mind for Lara to be sexy but the stigma attatched to it is that Lara isn't sexy with C cups or lower and people have proved that stigma to be true by in a nut-shell, saying that she doesn't look sexy now because she doesn't have big boobs.

It's not that Lara needs to have large breasts to be sexy. That is just not true. The massive HOWEVER is that if you make a Lara Croft with average sized breasts then you havn't made Lara at all. Large breasts are fundamental to the Lara concept. Is like Mario without his red cap, Pikatue without his red cheeks or Sonic without his spikes. It has no affect on gameplay but is a constant visual error the whole game through. There is far too much focus on this being about sexiness. Do you want to see Sonic with half size spikes? I wouldn't want that. I don't want Lara to get crazyily massive breasts but I think if they just went up a little bit in size then the result is so much better - True to realism and the Lara image. Everyone a winner :wave::D:wave:.

I don't find the new Lara sexy BUT not because of breast size. Who would look sexy with such messed up hair and what looks like a prison outfit on? We will be much better able to judge how sexy the new Lara is when the survival contextual blockers against sexiness are gone. I do feel if they do keep playing down sexyiness from now on it only renforces the connection between Lara's sex appeal and large breast size. Sex appeal is a good thing for Lara and a big part of her cultural identity.


When the GI cover was first revealed, people fought me when I said that even being adjusted along realistically proportioned facial structure (nose, eyes, cheek bone, etc..), her face was still immediately recognizable as Lara :wave:

I still think the concept art is nowhere near instantly recognisable as Lara. I have to keep saying to myself that is 'supposed' to be her. Having said that the trailer vid and actual game model are so different in this and they are 100% instantly recognisable as Lara.

sierra xb
5th Sep 2011, 03:05
When the GI cover was first revealed, people fought me when I said that even being adjusted along realistically proportioned facial structure (nose, eyes, cheek bone, etc..), her face was still immediately recognizable as Lara :wave:

I would have to agree with this...when i got my copy of the magazine in the mail and saw the cover, no one had to tell me that was Lara Croft. While the face is in no way identical to the version in TRU, there are still more than enough features there to make her recognizable. Even though i am used to seeing the LAU versions of her, I am very satisfied with everything about her (figure, clothes, etc.) as long as they keep as close as possible to what we saw in the trailer.

LadyRufina
5th Sep 2011, 07:35
I would have to agree with this...when i got my copy of the magazine in the mail and saw the cover, no one had to tell me that was Lara Croft. While the face is in no way identical to the version in TRU, there are still more than enough features there to make her recognizable. Even though i am used to seeing the LAU versions of her, I am very satisfied with everything about her (figure, clothes, etc.) as long as they keep as close as possible to what we saw in the trailer.

Aside from the big debate because it's obvious no one will budge, girls have their views on Laras' boobs and boys have theirs, even though it's not that thin of a line. I agree with sierra and adobeartist, I think the concept does look a lot like a young Lara. She still keeps her features: the m-shaped lips and so on but with a fresher face. I'm just as happy with her in concept and trailer as I am with the in game :D

d1n0_xD
5th Sep 2011, 07:40
I'm just as happy with her in concept and trailer as I am with the in game :D

Me too ^^ :thumb:

Ants_27_
5th Sep 2011, 11:31
I still think the concept art is nowhere near instantly recognisable as Lara. I have to keep saying to myself that is 'supposed' to be her. Having said that the trailer vid and actual game model are so different in this and they are 100% instantly recognisable as Lara.

You should all feel sorry for fans of Devil May Cry. I'm not really a fan so it doesn't bother me but Jesus, that's a change.

I guess 'Beauty' becomes annoying when it's abused. Like drugs, they aren't really 'harmful' until people start abusing their use. I suppose...

d1n0_xD
5th Sep 2011, 14:20
^ Yeah, they really messed up DMC by drastically changing Dante... Ok, it will surely be a nice game, but like you said, imagine how it is for DMC fans... I'm not much of a fan, but I surely don't like the new Dante. The old, bleach-haired, bad-ass Dante was :thumb:

Christie Luv
5th Sep 2011, 16:48
(copy & pasting this from the TR General forum because they said it wasn't the place to talk about it and referred me here lol)

They have gone in a couple directions with the new game that I wouldn't have chosen, for example, I don't think they needed a reboot, and this game seems to be more about gore and trying to survive, rather than discovering mysterious, and beautiful ancient places. I'm just getting that from the screenshots though. Maybe they have something they haven't shown in the game. Which would be great! I can't wait in either case!

Though I'm okay with her look. There wasn't anything more wrong with the way she used to look than when they make male characters all muscle, macho, and handsome looking. I think the new body figure is okay since it's more realistic, and teen girls are usually less developed anyway.

I think they could have made her more pretty, and still maintained the stranded in the jungle, and trying to survive look. I agree it is stereotyped that pretty girls, or girls with those kind of bodies can't do things like that. That's an aspect I loved about it the previous games. She was breaking those stereotypes, and many real life women do as well. Though if they are trying to break gender stereotypes that is great, but why not with guys too then in the same light? Make just a couple guys pretty in the game if we want to break gender stereotypes, and have them not be bad guys, which stupidly usually happens if a guy is a tomgirl. If they can't think of a way to fit them in this game, and probably not since they probably already have the game all planned out, and are in the middle of making it, then in other games where the scenario can fit them in. I just don't see that enough.

I also heard the game designers say they have heard nothing but good things about her new body figure, but from my experience it has been 50/50.

Ants_27_
5th Sep 2011, 17:01
They have gone in a couple directions with the new game that I wouldn't have chosen, for example, I don't think they needed a reboot

I think the poor sales of Underworld didn't help and as more competition began being released, it was easier for Crystal to incorporate new things into the series than tying to slot them into "the old" format.

I actually like the reboot, shows change and that is a good thing---shows maturing of a development team I guess?


That's an aspect I loved about it the previous games. She was breaking those stereotypes, and many real life women do as well.

True, but do we need to get this across anymore? I mean, Woman are accepted (in most cases) to be as equal to men -- I and my mates have never doubted that as we've all be predominately raised by female figures. Back then I think having Lara prove that woman can doing anything equal was needed but not so much now, as for me there is no real stereotype to break anymore.


I also heard the game designers say they have heard nothing but good things about her new body figure, but from my experience it has been 50/50.

They'll say that obviously, but outside of this forum I've never made any comment (or notice), nor have I heard anybody else pass comment on "how different" she looks.

That whole male thing again maybe?:scratch:

But seriously, I guess the only people that'll pass comment will be the hardcore lot, otherwise (to most) it's not that big of a fuss, or that drastic of a change(s).

Elliot Kane
5th Sep 2011, 17:42
Or to put it another way - the people most likely to comment on Lara's look are also those most likely to buy the game :)

d1n0_xD
5th Sep 2011, 17:46
True, but do we need to get this across anymore? I mean, Woman are accepted (in most cases) to be as equal to men -- I and my mates have never doubted that as we've all be predominately raised by female figures. Back then I think having Lara prove that woman can doing anything equal was needed but not so much now, as for me there is no real stereotype to break anymore.

I second this! ^^

kadosho
5th Sep 2011, 19:30
As a longtime Lara fan, I am humbly surprised that they gave her a completely revamped design. In addition, it fits with the theme of a "new beginning" and it doesn't feel tacked on. Its as if we're getting to see Lara in a brand new light.
Looking forward to what she will be capable of in her new adventure.

hiMe
5th Sep 2011, 23:21
What I am saying is that given the choice of outfits I would always choose the flamboyant and stylish over the completely realistic. Is much better if CD give us that choice and so I hope some more signiture Lara outfits make it into the game.

You're saying that yet they haven't even released the game yet :lol:

For all you know if you complete the game on easy mode you could unlock some different clothes, like her "old" clothes. Or something more glamorous.

Driber
6th Sep 2011, 09:49
Anything larger and it'll look fake.
width='100':S

And yet you have her on prominent display in your sig :p


Oh god Driber, you have no idea how refreshing it is to hear this. I am SO tired of sex appeal being so criminalized in this day and age. :mad2: Why did it become so wrong?

The world is becoming way too PC, I guess. Did you know that certain retail store employees are instructed to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas because it "may offend non-christians". Ugh.

The same with sex appeal; if a woman has it, then it shouldn't be mentioned, as it may offend her because you are "ignoring her intellect". I'm sorry, but when I see a beautiful woman on the street, my instant thought is not "Oh yeah baby, I would really love to hear what your opinions on the financial crisis are!" :lol:

Disclaimer: Before anyone interprets that as a typical macho comment, I actually love discussing the crisis and all other political/philosophical topics with my gf, who is both intelligent and beautiful :p

I just think that we should not forget ourselves. We all have "animal" instincts which makes us attracted to physical beauty. I read earlier that "boys will always prefer boobs". Yeah, so, what's wrong with that? :p

Ladies also drool over guy hunks. While I'd probably go like "ack" (picture finger stuck half-way into mouth), they have every right to and I wouldn't discourage them from doing so.

I appreciate both beauty and brains. It's nonsense to deliberately suppress one of those just because it's PC. And I think we all know what suppression can lead to...

Oh boy, I guess I got a little off topic and political there. This will be my last post on the PC issue.

I'll just say that IMO, it's HEALTHY to be attracted to sex appeal.


But we KNOW that's just not the case for Lara. She's got intelligence, wit, charm, culture, courage, dedication, grace, and sophistication going for her as well. Those other qualities shouldn't be diminished by sex appeal, and the sex appeal doesn't have to exclude the other.

I'll put it another way. I think we'd all agree that a beautiful woman should also be appreciated for her other qualities (humour, charm, intelligence, compassion, etc...). Not to allow looks to blind you to what's inside should always be practiced. But it seems some people get this idea that the looks must be completely ignored to show that they're "admiring all the good traits" of a woman. Does beauty not deserve just as much attention as everything else?

I am Driber and I approve of this message.


I would even go so far as to say, that dismissing beauty in order to compliment the other qualities is just as much a disservice, as paying attention only to her looks and not seeing the inner qualities.

Very good point. You know, if this was a forum about woman's rights in Iran, I believe some would suddenly be on the exact opposite of their opinion of Lara :whistle:


I'm a totally straight dude, but I might have a man crush now ;) :o :flowers:

Lets make out.


I agree it is stereotyped that pretty girls, or girls with those kind of bodies can't do things like that. That's an aspect I loved about it the previous games. She was breaking those stereotypes, and many real life women do as well.

Yup. That's I guess why TR has such a huge female fan base; Lara knows how to kick ass plus she has the looks......which, face it, 99% of woman would strive for if given the chance.


Make just a couple guys pretty in the game if we want to break gender stereotypes.

C'mon, Kurtis was just thrown into there for you ladies :p

LARALOVERnr1
6th Sep 2011, 12:22
And yet you have her on prominent display in your sig :p


I didn't say I don't like fake boobs ;)

LadyRufina
6th Sep 2011, 15:27
I appreciate both beauty and brains. It's nonsense to deliberately suppress one of those just because it's PC. And I think we all know what suppression can lead to...

No one is saying anything bad about beauty. Even all the girls (from what I know) want Lara to be beautiful. We're arguing whether or not Lara should have big boobs or not. A girl can be pig-ugly but still have massive boobs or tiny boobs so beauty is completely irrelevant to the debate.

Valkyrie_C
6th Sep 2011, 16:14
I agree with LadyRufina, boobs are not the criteria for beauty ! A lot of models have tiny boobs, and some have brains too. Angela Merkel have big boobs and brains. And according to you, boobs = beauty ?