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alaspurpuras
24th Jan 2011, 20:30
I've seen the DE3 trailer and have noticed that weapons, equipment, personal arguments and visualization are more advanced than in DE1. I am not speaking of graphics details, speaking about techno-timeline. For example aesthetics as cities, in DE1 NY, Hong Kong, etc, look more conventional. I think there is a serious failure in the timeline of the saga, after this error the past looks like the future and the serie becomes meaningless.

¿what you think?

sonicsidewinder
24th Jan 2011, 20:33
i think i've got a serious case of Deja Vu.

mad825
24th Jan 2011, 20:36
Just think this as a reboot and then all this information becomes invalid.

ZakKa89
24th Jan 2011, 21:15
The first Deus Ex still had 4:3 tv screens. So, yeah it doesn't matter.

Ashbery76
24th Jan 2011, 21:52
The reason is 2000 era textures.The guns in DX1 would look very different if designed now.

koijotito
24th Jan 2011, 22:47
Wasn't there some sort of terrorism outbreaks before DeusEx events? I think I read that on the back of the cd case.

Dead-Eye
24th Jan 2011, 23:37
It's because the Illuminati doesn't want anyone to know Deus Ex existed!

Ashpolt
24th Jan 2011, 23:38
The reason is 2000 era textures.The guns in DX1 would look very different if designed now.

This is definitely true. Similarly, the fact that Deus Ex used 4:3 screens was due to texture limits. They couldn't accurately portray widescreen displays back in those days. You can't render advanced technology with poor graphics, you know. It's why games like System Shock don't exist. They simply couldn't make games set in the future back in those days. Similarly, it's why Unreal Tournament doesn't exist. They couldn't make convincing futuristic weapons with 1999 technology.

Man I hate that vague excuse for an argument. DX looked like it did through design. If Warren Spector and co had wanted the world and tech to look more futuristic, they would have made it look more futuristic. Sure, it would've been a low-poly, low texture resolution vision of the future, but nonetheless: their decision was to make the Deus Ex vision of 2052 very close to the current day. It was woven into the very core of the game.

You can argue that this is a reboot and so excused from continuity issues if you want - I disagree, but go for it. You can argue that, because Deus Ex takes place after the crash and DXHR before it, it excuses continuity issues if you want - and if you can also explain how all that tech simply disappears, rather than being scavenged and sold on the black market etc. You can even argue that you simply don't care - I'm fine with that. But you can't say Deus Ex's world and tech didn't look more futuristic because of graphical restrictions. It's a ridiculous argument, flawed from the start, and putting in the effort to give it even a modicum of thought rather than spewing it out mindlessly would expose that. Deus Ex worked because it was set the day after tomorrow. If Warren Spector and co remade it with today's tech, it wouldn't suddenly have a sleeker, sexier vision of the future: it'd have the same gritty, "we're almost here already" vision of the future it's always had, but with more polygons and better textures.

Rindill the Red
24th Jan 2011, 23:49
Just think this as a reboot and then all this information becomes invalid.

I agree. It's definitely more of a reboot than a direct sequel/prequel.

NKD
25th Jan 2011, 00:06
It's just one of those things you have to deal with in scifi prequels.

Look at the prequel TV series Enterprise. Their ship looks far more advanced than the ship from the 1960s TV series, despite being a hundred years older. Why? Because of 40 years of advancement in set and prop design. Yet we are asked to believe that it is truly set a century earlier, despite the ship appearing to be decades more advanced. The ships in the Star Wars prequels and Old Republic era games seem more advanced than the ships in the original Star Wars movies because of advancements in visual effects and graphics.

This complaint is a common one for prequels.

Ashpolt
25th Jan 2011, 01:04
It's just one of those things you have to deal with in scifi prequels.

Look at the prequel TV series Enterprise. Their ship looks far more advanced than the ship from the 1960s TV series, despite being a hundred years older. Why? Because of 40 years of advancement in set and prop design. Yet we are asked to believe that it is truly set a century earlier, despite the ship appearing to be decades more advanced. The ships in the Star Wars prequels and Old Republic era games seem more advanced than the ships in the original Star Wars movies because of advancements in visual effects and graphics.

This complaint is a common one for prequels.

Does that make it right? Using the Star Wars prequels, or even Enterprise, to justify anything doesn't work for me.

BigBoss
25th Jan 2011, 01:19
Just think this as a reboot and then all this information becomes invalid.

Agreed.

NKD
25th Jan 2011, 02:03
Does that make it right? Using the Star Wars prequels, or even Enterprise, to justify anything doesn't work for me.

That's because I'm not trying to justify anything. I'm just making a statement about how things are, and how they've always been in scifi. In a scifi setting, more detailed and intricate design elements often give the audience the perception that technology is more advanced, even if the story indicates otherwise.

Its a drawback of visual entertainment mediums. They don't age as well as literature because the visual representation of a given level of technology as imagined by the artists changes based on trends in real-life technology, and visual effects limitations.

In games, this is often exacerbated by the fact that the gameplay itself can muddy the waters. Look at Adam Jensen's vast array of augs compared to JC Dentons. We can hand-wave these differences by citing story and saying mechanical augs are less advanced than nano augs, but ultimately Adam has more "stuff he can do" than JC. Is this because Adam is more advanced? No. But it's sure going to appear that way to people who aren't familiar with the story, just like the Star Trek and Star Wars examples I gave.

Visual scifi doesn't age well, and adding prequels to the mix only makes things worse.

Whompa
25th Jan 2011, 03:09
grasping at straws...keep in mind Deus Ex 1 looks like...well it was limited...if the opportunity ever rises, it would be redesigned from the ground up on a conceptual level.

Jerion
25th Jan 2011, 03:31
Deus Ex's visuals were by deliberate design, but there's no denying that such design had to work around the tech limitations of the time. To say otherwise would be silly. We will never know precisely how much Spector's vision, and the visions of the artists working on the original, was altered based on the technological capabilities of 1998-99. Sure, they may have not done anything differently because they accepted the limitations, but that doesn't mean they would or wouldn't have done anything differently with the assets had the then-accepted 3D graphical standards been as high-fidelity as they are now. What I'm getting at here is that we will never quite know how the visual design of DX would have translated to modern graphics because it was conceived for lower-fidelity graphics. I'm leaving alone the issue of the apparent technological discrepancy between the new and old installments here.

Unless, of course, they explicitly talked about that in the Post-mortem and I just don't remember it.

masume21
25th Jan 2011, 04:17
I think everybody needs to stop whining.

jtr7
25th Jan 2011, 04:30
May I accuse you of whining?

Read this very carefully and thoroughly:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1542296&postcount=1

MaxxQ1
25th Jan 2011, 06:07
May I accuse you of whining?

Read this very carefully and thoroughly:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1542296&postcount=1

Bravo! :thumb: :thumb:

IdiotInAJeep
25th Jan 2011, 07:55
I like to think that Deus Ex 1 took place in the real underworld of cities. The ghettos of New York and the crime ridden Wan Chai being the best examples. Human Revolution is instead showing the rich, developed areas of cities such as the upper level of Shanghai and the rebuilt Detroit. I'm sure that supporting the transhuman or anti-aug factions will see the game shifting to more slummy or futuristic locations respectively. Still holding out for a true Witcher Neutral possibility where you just try to track down the people Adam will "never stop looking" for.

VectorM
25th Jan 2011, 10:27
JJB said it himself, that they wanted to have their own visual style, so he is pretty much ignoring the style of the original.

Donvermicelli
25th Jan 2011, 15:19
I've seen the DE3 trailer and have noticed that weapons, equipment, personal arguments and visualization are more advanced than in DE1. I am not speaking of graphics details, speaking about techno-timeline. For example aesthetics as cities, in DE1 NY, Hong Kong, etc, look more conventional. I think there is a serious failure in the timeline of the saga, after this error the past looks like the future and the serie becomes meaningless.

¿what you think?

I and many others (as far as I can remember) have been saying this for years but to no avail.

alaspurpuras
25th Jan 2011, 17:23
I am not convinced. Insist that the graphical limitations are not the reason of the irregularity. For example DE1, NY conventional looks conventional and I think that was a hit, in 2055 a city like NY will not change too much. In DE3 city looks clearly upset (Blade Runner's "massive" touch). Ok, DE1 was a bitmap that could have different design if they had considered that the future would be so drastic, but it was so ... was not a technical limitation, was a native concept differently.

DE3 developers were wrong and insurance will not give answers in the game. I love the new aesthetic, but I am little disappointed with the decision to ignore the basic concepts of the prequels.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jvb_zWfEPsg/TFFnPvfcHuI/AAAAAAAAA_A/fpdvlbQQZTs/s1600/deus+ex.jpg

http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Deus-Ex-HR_02.jpg

BigBoss
25th Jan 2011, 18:53
I am not convinced. Insist that the graphical limitations are not the reason of the irregularity. For example DE1, NY conventional looks conventional and I think that was a hit, in 2055 a city like NY will not change too much. In DE3 city looks clearly upset (Blade Runner's "massive" touch). Ok, DE1 was a bitmap that could have different design if they had considered that the future would be so drastic, but it was so ... was not a technical limitation, was a native concept differently.

DE3 developers were wrong and insurance will not give answers in the game. I love the new aesthetic, but I am little disappointed with the decision to ignore the basic concepts of the prequels.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jvb_zWfEPsg/TFFnPvfcHuI/AAAAAAAAA_A/fpdvlbQQZTs/s1600/deus+ex.jpg

http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Deus-Ex-HR_02.jpg

Yeah, the first screen shot is clearly superior. They need to make it look more like that. Oh wait, that's completely ******* retarded.

[FGS]Shadowrunner
25th Jan 2011, 19:19
There's a feel in DX1 that Denton is in a world that is in decline. The plague has left the world in ruin. Trashcans and trashbags everywhere, the Socal earthquake, shanty towns in battery park. Detroit in DX3 is reminiscent of this DX1 atmosphere.

Maybe check out JJB's podcast, he answers this question in a very direct way. They didn't try to fit into DX1's techline, instead they did a huge research project to ascertain what tech in 2027 will be exactly. So DX3 is designed to be a realistic vision of 2027.

nomotog
25th Jan 2011, 19:49
I am not convinced. Insist that the graphical limitations are not the reason of the irregularity. For example DE1, NY conventional looks conventional and I think that was a hit, in 2055 a city like NY will not change too much. In DE3 city looks clearly upset (Blade Runner's "massive" touch). Ok, DE1 was a bitmap that could have different design if they had considered that the future would be so drastic, but it was so ... was not a technical limitation, was a native concept differently.

DE3 developers were wrong and insurance will not give answers in the game. I love the new aesthetic, but I am little disappointed with the decision to ignore the basic concepts of the prequels.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jvb_zWfEPsg/TFFnPvfcHuI/AAAAAAAAA_A/fpdvlbQQZTs/s1600/deus+ex.jpg

http://www.ripten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Deus-Ex-HR_02.jpg

Two different cites there. The one on top is new york. A city in the middle of a depression. The second city is Chang high (Catch me if I am wrong, but it's over by china.) In the middle of a huge technology boom.

When it comes to the city there is not much of gulf. They are using different cites in different times. DX:HR is the boom time, All this new tech is coming out and people what to show off, DX1 is after the boom when everyone is dieing from the plague. They don't have the money or the inspiration to repaint the 16chapple with a robot arm.

The weapons and augs are less excusable, but there is also a smaller gulf. The rifles in DX:HR look better, but the ones in DX1 are smaller and more high tech(Look at the ammo they take and you will see what I mean). The augs also look more flashy with exploding arms and punching threw walls, but DX1 has a aug that explodes other people's explosives. That is way more advanced. Another real quick example is the Laser cannon Vs the plasma rifle. The laser cannon looks like a big bulky prototype but the plasma rifle looks like it's almost ready for full production.

And now I have talked too much.

demon boy
25th Jan 2011, 20:26
Again with this thread...

Look there's no way to make sense of it. It is what it is. While the new game is supposed to take place prior to DX1, it was actually made ten years later. As such, you are going to have that issue of some things in HR looking sleeker and more advanced than they logically should if they exist at an earlier point in the same timeline.

There is no way to explain it as making sense within the context of the story. The idea that economic decline would lead to the use of less advanced technology is a bit silly. It might lead to prolonged use of existing technology or slowed technological progress but not regression. Unless DX1 took place in a post appocalypse (which it didn't) there is no reason to believe that the technology shouldn't be far more advanced than it was 25 years earlier.