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Silvermoth
13th Jan 2011, 07:43
Do you think Lara should have a love interest in the new game or sequels? I wonder what sort of guy she would go after. I could see her being interested in Chris Redfield or maybe one of those old fashioned Hollywood movie star type guys like Clark Gable or whatever.

It doesn't have to be an in your face, twilighty sort of romance. Just a strong relationship with romantic intent sort of thing. Maybe even something similar to the relationship between Emma Peel and Steed in "The Avengers".

Jurre
13th Jan 2011, 11:33
Not in the upcoming game at least; on a filthy island full of monsters that is just out of place. But I wouldn't like it in any situation.

BraveNewGuy
13th Jan 2011, 11:49
No no no no and NOO
hell no , Lara don't need lovers or anything like that :mad2:
we don't need it to be like the films

GoranAgar
13th Jan 2011, 12:20
No! Some heroes just should not be watered with stuff like that.

RoombelinaUK
13th Jan 2011, 13:57
Do you think Lara should have a love interest in the new game or sequels? I wonder what sort of guy she would go after. I could see her being interested in Chris Redfield or maybe one of those old fashioned Hollywood movie star type guys like Clark Gable or whatever.

It doesn't have to be an in your face, twilighty sort of romance. Just a strong relationship with romantic intent sort of thing. Maybe even something similar to the relationship between Emma Peel and Steed in "The Avengers".

I agree, only if her lover dies a horrible, horrible death in the plot. And he'd better be hot - else I won't cry LOL

ZephNor
13th Jan 2011, 15:57
Speaking of love interests, remember Kurtis Trent from Angel of Darkness? Now that was interesting.

Fox89
13th Jan 2011, 17:22
Yes. Me. If anyone can tell me how to Tron my way into a video game I'll make it happen ;)

Kami
13th Jan 2011, 17:57
Maybe their idea of making her more human is giving her a love interest? I just wish they manage to avoid cliches if they go with it.

This guy in front of Conrad seems inmortant. ANd he seems to know what he is talking about when pointing at the map. SO he has to be an archaeologist too. And he is young. Could be a love interest. The reason why I am saying this is that he really reminds of Chase Carver from the TR comic books, who is this TR who had past with Lara.


http://www.videogameszone.de/screenshots/507x762/2010/12/tomb_raider_conrad_roth_screen.jpg

He especially looks like Chase Carver drawn by Joe Jusko
http://i.livescience.com/images/Jusko3-03.jpg

Melonie_TR
13th Jan 2011, 20:36
I'm open minded, but would prefer for their not to be a love interest. Perhaps her parents could have tried to arrange a marriage like in the original bio, which inevitably does not work out (maybe he could have died on the shipwreck?).

There's all kinds of possible scenarios, but like I said, I'd prefer for Lara not to have a love interest.

Pietras
13th Jan 2011, 20:39
I'm really not sure about this. I haven't seen a romance in a video-game outside Knights of the Old Republic II that wouldn't be an utter cliche-B-movie-camp fest. So it's just better not touch to this subject.

AdobeArtist
13th Jan 2011, 22:58
No! Some heroes just should not be watered with stuff like that.

Watered down? Are you serious? If anything, a romance would only add depth to Lara's character. This new series is an opportunity to expand on the humanization of Lara, fully fleshing out her characterization with emotional complexity and range. And part of that is posessing an underlying subtext of wants and needs, as all people have in one form or another.


I'm really not sure about this. I haven't seen a romance in a video-game outside Knights of the Old Republic II that wouldn't be an utter cliche-B-movie-camp fest. So it's just better not touch to this subject.

Just because it hasn't always been done right, doesn't mean it can't be, or shouldn't be attempted. Rather than take a defeatist attitude that "it's too hard, better not to try", that should signify how much more effort is needed.

=========

I too often see the subject of a love interest treated as a generality with comments like "she doesn't need it", or "she's too independant to have a relationship".

But if you look at this realistically, especially in the scope of years, who really spends their entire life alone? Or more for that matter, how many people go through life never meeting someone they spontaneously feel an attraction for? Desire and need are a very relevant part of the human experience and can't simply be ignored. And relationships do NOT compromise one's independace. Lots of people date and still pursue their passions & careers.

I have said before that love interests aren't always this idealized disney romance - that lovey dovey, heart eyed, happily ever after with the one true soul mate. It more often comes down to forming connections with people, and from there developing strong relationships, in what ever course it takes them on.

I want to see a human Lara, one with boths strengths and vulnerabilities, and that there's more to her life than just one expedition after another. In other words, aside from her vocation, she should have a life :) :wave:

dark7angel
13th Jan 2011, 23:21
Watered down? Are you serious? If anything, a romance would only add depth to Lara's character. This new series is an opportunity to expand on the humanization of Lara, fully fleshing out her characterization with emotional complexity and range. And part of that is posessing an underlying subtext of wants and needs, as all people have in one form or another.



Just because it hasn't always been done right, doesn't mean it can't be, or shouldn't be attempted. Rather than take a defeatist attitude that "it's too hard, better not to try", that should signify how much more effort is needed.

=========

I too often see the subject of a love interest treated as a generality with comments like "she doesn't need it", or "she's too independant to have a relationship".

But if you look at this realistically, especially in the scope of years, who really spends their entire life alone? Or more for that matter, how many people go through life never meeting someone they spontaneously feel an attraction for? Desire and need are a very relevant part of the human experience and can't simply be ignored. And relationships do NOT compromise one's independace. Lots of people date and still pursue their passions & careers.

I have said before that love interests aren't always this idealized disney romance - that lovey dovey, heart eyed, happily ever after with the one true soul mate. It more often comes down to forming connections with people, and from there developing strong relationships, in what ever course it takes them on.

I want to see a human Lara, one with boths strengths and vulnerabilities, and that there's more to her life than just one expedition after another. In other words, aside from her vocation, she should have a life :) :wave:

Once again I agree with you! :cool:

Kami
13th Jan 2011, 23:43
I don't think love interest and romance are the same thing :rasp:

Fox89
14th Jan 2011, 00:04
Also: love interest in the context of this game I would find pretty unbelievable. I mean... she's fighting for her life in a hostile environment. It would be as stupid, I dunno, Commander Shephard hooking up with one of his crew whilst out trying to save the galaxy.

O WAIT!!!

Seriously though, it wouldn't really be the time or the place! :)

AdobeArtist
14th Jan 2011, 00:31
Also: love interest in the context of this game I would find pretty unbelievable. I mean... she's fighting for her life in a hostile environment. It would be as stupid, I dunno, Commander Shephard hooking up with one of his crew whilst out trying to save the galaxy.

O WAIT!!!

Seriously though, it wouldn't really be the time or the place! :)

I'm pretty sure we're all agreed this first instalment of the reboot isn't the place for a romance. Definitely doesn't work in context of the scenario. This discussion is more about what will happen afterwards, when Lara returns to civilization. basically the general future of the series with this new starting point.



I don't think love interest and romance are the same thing :rasp:

You have piqued my curiosity. Please elaborate :wave:

LC is Me
14th Jan 2011, 00:44
Yes let's throw in irrelevant subject matter into the game.

I'll pass. I hate the idea of adding love interests into video games unless it fits the specific story.

Kami
14th Jan 2011, 00:55
You have piqued my curiosity. Please elaborate :wave:

Well Kurtis was a love interest. There was no romance. He obviously has a thing for Lara in aod and Lara was definitely intrigued by him. Even though before Lara has always been playful - she hasn't really been shown to be interested in someone and that was an interesting twist to see her like that. In a way that made her more human - which is what Crystal are aiming to do now.
Sure their relationship got a bit hyped in the community BUT nothing official shows fuzz :p


On the other hand, I personally really hate Lara's attitude towards Larson in Anniversary. She is so protective of her womanhood around him lol While in TR1 she OBVIOUSLY wasn't interested but was still playfully mocking with him.

ZeroPunctuation put it great in his review
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5-Tomb-Raider-Anniversary

Id rather see Lara slightly interested in someone,not enough to be all gasping when he eventually betrays her or whatever cliche they come up with, but just to show that she is a woman. If she notices a good looking man to show it. We live in times when women are equal to men right?

Then why is it still perceived that Hollywood tough-guys can be all over every chick they see and a strong independent women have to have chastity belts?

AdobeArtist
14th Jan 2011, 01:11
Well Kurtis was a love interest. There was no romance. He obviously has a thing for Lara in aod and Lara was definitely intrigued by him. Even though before Lara has always been playful - she hasn't really been shown to be interested in someone and that was an interesting twist to see her like that. In a way that made her more human - which is what Crystal are aiming to do now.
Sure their relationship got a bit hyped in the community BUT nothing official shows fuzz :p


On the other hand, I personally really hate Lara's attitude towards Larson in Anniversary. She is so protective of her womanhood around him lol While in TR1 she OBVIOUSLY wasn't interested but was still playfully mocking with him.

ZeroPunctuation put it great in his review
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/5-Tomb-Raider-Anniversary

Id rather see Lara slightly interested in someone,not enough to be all gasping when he eventually betrays her or whatever cliche they come up with, but just to show that she is a woman. If she notices a good looking man to show it. We live in times when women are equal to men right?

Then why is it still perceived that Hollywood tough-guys can be all over every chick they see and a strong independent women have to have chastity belts?

I remember that "review" (I check out Yahtzee's program every week, I love his stuff) and I couldn't agree more with him. It's become an all too common cliche that tough woman refuse to flirt with men or acknowledge their existence. Because that would surely compromise their independance and integrity, then they'd have to relenquish their adventurer card :rolleyes:

Now if my sarcasm wasn't thick enough, NO it doesn't! It's far more interesting to see a woman who can enjoy the flattery of men and not have it be seen as a demeaning act.

Yeah there was a time seeing a woman swoon was a sterotype. Problem is in the efforts to correct that, the media got so carried away with protecting female character's from a "soft image" that the cold indifference to men and attraction in general, became its own stereotype.

It's time to find that middle ground with realistic character's motivated by natural human behavior and experience, and finding acceptance that love interests can co-exist with strength and independance.

GoranAgar
14th Jan 2011, 07:06
Watered down? Are you serious? If anything, a romance would only add depth to Lara's character. This new series is an opportunity to expand on the humanization of Lara, fully fleshing out her characterization with emotional complexity and range. And part of that is posessing an underlying subtext of wants and needs, as all people have in one form or another.

Oh, I am dead serious. Lara has been just fine with the relationships that have been added so far. Except for Kurtis. That was way too much. Yes, you can add to a character, but please do not bring Lara "down" to what is normal. She needs to stay extraordinary. In my world she is more like Batman than Superman.

chriss_99
14th Jan 2011, 09:21
Adding a love interest into the game would ruin it for me so I'm definitely against it.
I really didn't like the "thing" Lara and Kurtis had in AOD. Lara is not a woman who would let herself be fingered.
Tomb Raider is about lonely adventures, struggle to survive and exploration. There's no room for romance.

RoombelinaUK
14th Jan 2011, 09:36
I think a little romance would weave itself perfectly into this one. And the people who disagree are just being selfish...:whistle:

Kami
14th Jan 2011, 10:44
I remember that "review" (I check out Yahtzee's program every week, I love his stuff) and I couldn't agree more with him. It's become an all too common cliche that tough woman refuse to flirt with men or acknowledge their existence. Because that would surely compromise their independance and integrity, then they'd have to relenquish their adventurer card :rolleyes:

Now if my sarcasm wasn't thick enough, NO it doesn't! It's far more interesting to see a woman who can enjoy the flattery of men and not have it be seen as a demeaning act.

Yeah there was a time seeing a woman swoon was a sterotype. Problem is in the efforts to correct that, the media got so carried away with protecting female character's from a "soft image" that the cold indifference to men and attraction in general, became its own stereotype.

It's time to find that middle ground with realistic character's motivated by natural human behavior and experience, and finding acceptance that love interests can co-exist with strength and independance.

Good points!

Have you read Witchblade? In one of the first comic books Sara Pizzini (Witchblade) sees this guy in a Japanese armor who jumps out of a helicopter, clearly with the intend to kill her. ANd she was like "I have been attacked with strange things, even at one case a toaster, but a sword and armor? Too bad. If the circumstances were different I wouldn't mind seeing what's under that armor. "

Thats the kind of thing I mean. No one is talking about love. A love interest is a better way of saying something else that would sound rude.

As for the batman analogy, Doesn't Batman has his occasional love interests like Wonder Woman, Cat woman? Why can't Lara have SOMETHING. Or at least be flirtageous once again

AdobeArtist
14th Jan 2011, 14:11
Oh, I am dead serious. Lara has been just fine with the relationships that have been added so far. Except for Kurtis. That was way too much. Yes, you can add to a character, but please do not bring Lara "down" to what is normal. She needs to stay extraordinary. In my world she is more like Batman than Superman.

Kami beat me to what I was going to say. Even Batman has had his trysts before. With Catwoman, Wonderwoman and Talia, the daughter of R'as Al Ghul. And they've often been complicated romances in the case of Catwoman and Talia, with the conflict of interests they represent. But you knwo what? Having complications in the protagonists life IS A GOOD THING. It's a rich source of drama, which is what makes for good story telling.

And I must emphasise once again, that having a romance or love interest (an attraction without deeper romantic feelings) in no way compromises the character's strength or their extraordinary quality. It didn't for Batman, so why should it for Lara?

Being extraordinary isn't about being above human. It's about being human, with all its inherint strengths & weaknesses, ambitions & needs, hopes & fears, and still accomplishing extrordinry feats of will.

There's a world of difference between seldom seldom having a love interests and never having a love interest. The former being still within reason and adding to the complexity of the character's life, the latter being completely unrealistic.

I also like Kami's Witchblade example. You really think Batman never took notice of a babe with a hot body so accentuated by tight leather (catwoman), and might have found it a turn on? He IS still a man underneath his costume. ;)

And on one final note, this is a little known fact - On one of Batman's encounters with Talia, when they weren't at odds and shared in their mutual attraction, he had a conquest of his own. And from that single night of passion, Talia had a baby. yes, batman's son. His whereabaouts are unknown today, but point being, he has a son that exists somewhere out there which he presently has no knowledge of.

GoranAgar
14th Jan 2011, 14:37
Batman has a son. Oh dear. According to the last movie, so does Superman. I am so looking forward to their teenager years. Anyone remember Angels son?

Being happily married without any drama, I can do very well without fictional drama of that sort.

But when you say it does not compromise the character's strength, isn't exactly that a prerequisite to actually allow a drama situation? In my eyes it is. :)

Pulse
14th Jan 2011, 17:18
What if she has a school girl crush on Carter... that'd be kind of... odd.

LC is Me
14th Jan 2011, 17:23
And the people who disagree are just being selfish...:whistle:

LOL @ stating opinion as fact

I don't agree with mindlessly tossing in romance with the game that is supposed to be putting Lara back on the map. They wanna do it in later installments? I still don't agree with it, but fine. Do it when people have become accustomed to the new Lara. Stop trying to clump such a huge personality change into her and then shove her in our faces and say "This is how she is now. Deal."

Just. No.
Not at all.
Progressive change. This reboot is a big enough change as it is and people aren't even happy with this. If anyone is being selfish, IN MY OPINION, it's people how are so eager to speed up the process of recreating Lara. I'm all for the change, but slow down. =/
Give people time to adapt and be willing to consider such a sensitive topic as a love interest.

Danielsun_
14th Jan 2011, 23:30
Progressive change. This reboot is a big enough change as it is and people aren't even happy with this. If anyone is being selfish, IN MY OPINION, it's people how are so eager to speed up the process of recreating Lara. I'm all for the change, but slow down. =/
Give people time to adapt and be willing to consider such a sensitive topic as a love interest.

This or agreed or whatever :p

QiX
15th Jan 2011, 04:32
No, we've had complications enough with the mummy mum saga to jeopardise the series with more personal relationship melodrama. Just give me the good old human versus environment feeling, this is the winning formula. Afterall we don't want the series to need another reboot in the tenth title :scratch:

Silvermoth
16th Jan 2011, 03:59
I think there's a right way and a wrong way to have a romantic angle. As Adobeartist mentioned, it could really add to her character (if not in this game than in a future game). After all, romance has helped define the coolest action characters of all time wether its the Wolverine/Jean/Cyclops love triangle in the X-men which transformed Wolverine from a dumb, one note rough as guts trucker type person into a man of contradictions and strengths or James Bond who was equally defined by Vesper Lynd or Tracy Di Vicenzo.

If it's done right it could be very interesting.

AdobeArtist
17th Jan 2011, 02:32
Thanks Silvermoth :) I think the friction from this topic arises because the idea of a love interest always assumes that it's about a commited relationship. But the term doesn't necessarily mean that. As pointed out by others, interest can mean just that - seeing someone that sparks an interest, a simple reaction of attraction, regardless of any established relationship. Having an interest doesn't obligate one to pursue anything from that, it's just a feeling, and even that can be enough to further the character development.

Once again going by Batman's example, just because he was attracted to Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul, and Wonder Woman, doesn't mean he got intimately involved with them in a commited relationship. Spiderman was both attracted to Black Cat and had his on again, off again flings before he got deeply involved with MJ.

So I want to tackle this from that direction, and ask all those still so adamantly opposed to this; taking the relationship aspect aside, do you really believe that Lara meeting someone she could feel an immediate & spontaneous attraction to is so completely out of the realm of possibility? Couldn't she enjoy the flattery from an attractive man as any woman would? Or that she could enjoy a kiss, just as a man would want to kiss her? Not leading to a relationship, just the kiss as an act in and of itself, no strings attached?

Elliot Kane
17th Jan 2011, 14:08
I always see Lara as being far too dedicated to her work to go in for relationships, honestly. She's absolutely driven to do what she does and that leaves no real time for romance. Being smart, she knows that and doesn't try to divide her time & attention from her one true love - tomb raiding!

I wouldn't think anyone who didn't share her lifestyle & interests stood a chance in any case, mind.

_Love2Raid_
18th Jan 2011, 00:07
Thanks Silvermoth :) I think the friction from this topic arises because the idea of a love interest always assumes that it's about a commited relationship. But the term doesn't necessarily mean that. As pointed out by others, interest can mean just that - seeing someone that sparks an interest, a simple reaction of attraction, regardless of any established relationship. Having an interest doesn't obligate one to pursue anything from that, it's just a feeling, and even that can be enough to further the character development.

Once again going by Batman's example, just because he was attracted to Catwoman, Talia Al Ghul, and Wonder Woman, doesn't mean he got intimately involved with them in a commited relationship. Spiderman was both attracted to Black Cat and had his on again, off again flings before he got deeply involved with MJ.

So I want to tackle this from that direction, and ask all those still so adamantly opposed to this; taking the relationship aspect aside, do you really believe that Lara meeting someone she could feel an immediate & spontaneous attraction to is so completely out of the realm of possibility? Couldn't she enjoy the flattery from an attractive man as any woman would? Or that she could enjoy a kiss, just as a man would want to kiss her? Not leading to a relationship, just the kiss as an act in and of itself, no strings attached?
I don't see why not, really. There was something like that in Angel of Darkness and even if the guy, Kurtis Trent, wasn't such a great character (sure I understand if you would find him 'cool', but he wasn't that great, honestly), there are still fans hoping for his return and countless of fan-fics have been written about the two. Why would that be? :)

Just introduce another one, and everybody will forget about Kurtis. ;)

QiX
18th Jan 2011, 03:59
One thing is to make a customisable game protagonist to have a love interest. See for instance Mass Effect series of Fallout 3, the main character is all by the players choices, be it gender, name, physical and personality traits, moral tendencies, you name it. When Shepard can demonstrate an attraction for any on the possible love interests there is also a number of options and decisions that are up to the player. Every playthrough in a RPGesque game with fully customisable character has such an ammount of decisions to be made that you hardly will develop the same character twice.

Tomb Raider has always been the complete opposite to this, it's the same Lara for everyone, she's morally in the line between good and evil so the identification with the player is more in his imagination. If you add a love interest to this formula you are most probably in the lines of one only possible guy to be put in the role. Remember Kurtis? While there are still fans of him claiming for his return the absolute majority of the Tomb Raider fans that I know hated him. Even if not a commited relationship I see it as greater chance of fiasco than success. Personally I don't want to be forced into a romance situation to enjoy a Tomb Raider game.

Elliot Kane
18th Jan 2011, 09:32
I'd have no problems with a proper RPG approach (In that I could have Lara ignore it. I just don't see her as the romantic type) but definitely not the JRPG approach where every response is predestined and I have no choice. Lara makes her OWN destiny. That's her whole thing.

AdobeArtist
19th Jan 2011, 05:09
One thing is to make a customisable game protagonist to have a love interest. See for instance Mass Effect series of Fallout 3, the main character is all by the players choices, be it gender, name, physical and personality traits, moral tendencies, you name it. When Shepard can demonstrate an attraction for any on the possible love interests there is also a number of options and decisions that are up to the player. Every playthrough in a RPGesque game with fully customisable character has such an ammount of decisions to be made that you hardly will develop the same character twice.

Tomb Raider has always been the complete opposite to this, it's the same Lara for everyone, she's morally in the line between good and evil so the identification with the player is more in his imagination. If you add a love interest to this formula you are most probably in the lines of one only possible guy to be put in the role. Remember Kurtis? While there are still fans of him claiming for his return the absolute majority of the Tomb Raider fans that I know hated him. Even if not a commited relationship I see it as greater chance of fiasco than success. Personally I don't want to be forced into a romance situation to enjoy a Tomb Raider game.

Why is a love interest only acceptable in an RPG context? In Action Adventure games (or basically any non-rpg genre) all other aspects of a character's personlity and behavioral traits are predetermined. If they're violent or diplomatic, demanding or encouraging, anti-social or outgoing, sacrificng or self-serving, or what have you, that's already pre-scripted by the game designers. Should those characteristics be changed to meet the approval of the player?

But forget about the relationship itself. Having an interest or attraction if you prefer can also mean the person will choose not to pursue it for personal reasons. But regardless of reasons, they have those feelings none the less. And this is at the core of what I'm talking about here. Not the actions taken, but what's happening beneath the surface. That emotional and psychological context that clearly defines a fully rounded human being.

So I ask once again to all the opposers, do you think Lara doesn't ever experience attraction, even if she doesn't pursue it?



I always see Lara as being far too dedicated to her work to go in for relationships, honestly. She's absolutely driven to do what she does and that leaves no real time for romance. Being smart, she knows that and doesn't try to divide her time & attention from her one true love - tomb raiding!

I wouldn't think anyone who didn't share her lifestyle & interests stood a chance in any case, mind.

I'm sorry, but this is just an excuse. Plenty of people are extraordinarily busy with their vocations. yet even doctors, lawyers, soldiers, and cops still date. They don't just stop living or socializing. Sure they may have long strectches where they don't see their family, spouses, or other people close to them, but at some point they DO put their careers aside for one night or a weekend. And you know what? That does NOT make them any less dedicated or passionate about their careers. Trust me, no lawyer finds himself questioned about his commitments just because he took a night to have a drink with a woman he met, or has been seeing for a couple of months.

The whole idea that dedicated people commit ALL their time to an occupation is just hyperbole. I don't care how passionate anyone is, NOBODY actually lives in their work to such a literal extent.

In fact I don't want Lara to ONLY be an archaelogist. That would make her boring. Character's are far more interesting who have more going on than just one thing. The crew of the Enterprise doesn't just save the galaxy from the Borg and the Romulans. Picard has his personal love of Shakespear and archaelogy. Riker plays Jazz. Data explores his potential for creativity with painting. And the whole gang gets together to play poker or socialize in Ten Forward, just having drinks. These are the little details which are most revealing and shows us the viewers what makes the character really tick.

Well developed characters have more going on than just their heroic exploits. They have a life. So I don't accept the "they're too busy with their work/career/vocation to have a social life" excuse. In the real world, there's no such thing.

QiX
19th Jan 2011, 06:03
Why is a love interest only acceptable in an RPG context? In Action Adventure games (or basically any non-rpg genre) all other aspects of a character's personlity and behavioral traits are predetermined. If they're violent or diplomatic, demanding or encouraging, anti-social or outgoing, sacrificng or self-serving, or what have you, that's already pre-scripted by the game designers. Should those characteristics be changed to meet the approval of the player?

I don't say only, but more acceptable. If you have the chance to choose to develop or not a romantic subplot, and if so you can make it in a way that reflects your personal preferences, then it will have a better chance to keep your interest. Or not. In Mass Effect 2 I played a female Shepard and I was not in the mood to flirt with the guys just for a stupid achievement. I was focused in the action and I skipped the romance. I'd say I'll rather have this chance to choose or not if TR ever implements romance as part of the gameplay.


But forget about the relationship itself. Having an interest or attraction if you prefer can also mean the person will choose not to pursue it for personal reasons. But regardless of reasons, they have those feelings none the less. And this is at the core of what I'm talking about here. Not the actions taken, but what's happening beneath the surface. That emotional and psychological context that clearly defines a fully rounded human being.

Exactly my thoughts, Lara may eventually make a choice to pursue it or not. But being only one character and not subject to the player's customisation, if the decision is imposed by the producers as part of the plot and not effectively as a player's choice it will be stupid. The emotional context that defines a human being, as you mentioned, if it doesn't reflect the human player in a way to form a true identity it's better be kept only as a suggestion, not explicitly. If the romance is implicit but not shown it's up to the player's imagination to fill in the blanks.


So I ask once again to all the opposers, do you think Lara doesn't ever experience attraction, even if she doesn't pursue it?

Again, whose Lara? Even if there is no player customisation every player out there has one different Lara in their minds. Even if they look the same and say the same lines, my Lara's personality traits are different than everybody else's.

Elliot Kane
19th Jan 2011, 13:46
Adobe - I didn't say dedicated, I said TOO dedicated. She pours all of her time and energies into her one obsession to the exclusion of all else - including romance. I don't see her having any real circle of friends, either, for that matter, and the games tend to bear that out. Lara has business associates and people who got caught up in her wake, but real friends? People she hangs out with or talks to regularly? Not really. She's obsessional and her obsession leaves no time for anything else.

I don't object to romance in games, when it fits. I've done all four romances in Dragon Age and plenty of romances in other games, too. But I just do not see Lara making the time. Wrong character, wrong games.

janchySoS98
19th Jan 2011, 20:56
Hey guys do u remember Kurtis Trent from AOD :DDD

Pulse
20th Jan 2011, 00:15
Hey guys do u remember Kurtis Trent from AOD :DDD

Yes. Unfortunately :mad2:

Elliot Kane
20th Jan 2011, 09:36
Hey guys do u remember Kurtis Trent from AOD :DDD

I'm still trying to forget the utter mess that was AOD, thanks! :D

AdobeArtist
21st Jan 2011, 01:47
Adobe - I didn't say dedicated, I said TOO dedicated. She pours all of her time and energies into her one obsession to the exclusion of all else - including romance. I don't see her having any real circle of friends, either, for that matter, and the games tend to bear that out. Lara has business associates and people who got caught up in her wake, but real friends? People she hangs out with or talks to regularly? Not really. She's obsessional and her obsession leaves no time for anything else.

I don't object to romance in games, when it fits. I've done all four romances in Dragon Age and plenty of romances in other games, too. But I just do not see Lara making the time. Wrong character, wrong games.

Now you're just arguing semantics. Whether you call it dedicated, too dedicated, super dedicated, or super uper duper dedicated, it still amounts to the same thing; a shallow excuse for poor character development, in not even trying to round out the character in question, polishing them with all the smaller details that fill them out and better define them.

No matter how proficient and spectacular the character is at what they primarily do (explore tombs, protect the inncent, save the planet from galactic threats, etc...) if that's all they have going for them they are just plain boring. To be interesting to the viewer, there has to be more than just that to hold their attention and interest.

And I've shown by example that this is a proven formula for success. Do you think Spiderman would have the lasting appeal of over 40 years if the only thing we saw of him was web swinging in New York and beating up the bad guys? No, he is relatable because he has to deal with other issues, like school, work, struggling to gain acceptance from his peers, wanting the pretty girls to notice him, taking care of his aunt may, struggling with money issues, and more. There's so much going on with him beneath the surface that readers connect with.

Hell just take any long lasting character - Superman trying to fit in as a normal person as Clark Kent. The Fantastic Four was strife with inter-family issues between Johnny and Sue storm as siblings, Johnny and Ben as friends and rivals, Ben and Reed as friends of diametrically opposite traits. And even Batman, another "dedicated" hero still had his charity work and flings with Catwoman, and Talia.

Has Lara seen such lsting appeal, aside from us very few niche fans? remember when she first came on the scene and was widely embraced by gamers across the board? But now, what I hear so many times on other forums is that the only thing she has going for her is her big boobs. Gamers who used to love her now see her as a shallow barbie doll. In direct contrast, other character's have shown much better character develolpment, and fans really connect to them.

Believe me, anyone can be greatly dedicated to their cause and STILL find time for things outside of that, and it doesn't make them any less commited. This whole "dedicated to a cause" angle you're playing is really hyperbole, but you're treating it like it's literal, which it's not. Nobody actually spends every waking minute at what ever their cause is and it's completely unrealistic to exepect it no matter who it is we're talking about, including Lara.

Gamers expect more from the story side of things. This new start is an opportunity for Lara to recaptivate the whole gaming community by really delivering on the story and character front, to make her interesting by being more than just a "hot action heroin". And I do NOT want to see Lara fade into obscurity beacuse she didn't rise to the occasion and meet modern standards.

But this whole discussion of Lara fitting in time for a relationship (or not) still evades what's at the heart of the issue. The whole point I've been driving at is not whether or not Lara takes the time for a commited relationship, but whether or not as part of her character development, do you believe she even feels any romantic interest, regardless of what she does with such feelings.

* sorry for the long post and my thanks to anybody who actually reads all of this. Funny, in my head it doesn't seem like that much text but then when I put it to "paper", just.... wow, lol :o:o

LC is Me
21st Jan 2011, 03:58
Now you're just arguing semantics. Whether you call it dedicated, too dedicated, super dedicated, or super uper duper dedicated, it still amounts to the same thing; a shallow excuse for poor character development, in not even trying to round out the character in question, polishing them with all the smaller details that fill them out and better define them.


It's not really arguing semantics when you look at it.
There are definitely different degrees in which people like something and obsess over something. I think Elliot's argument makes perfect sense and when you take a look back amongst all of the games, he makes a fine point.

Sure, I don't like the idea of romance (nothing I say can stop it from ever happening and I'd still play the games), but semantics or not, he's got a pretty spot on argument. And it's not like there people in the real world who are obsessive to Lara's extent as well. And honestly, if the idea is to also cater to gamers who only cared about her cup size, I'd hardly expect them to find any substance in whatever romance that would or could potentially be in a game.

Game characters don't have to be a model character or completely relatable in order to be "good" characters. Yes I think making them seem human is a good idea. Not robotic creatures. But they don't have to have the aspects in life people would expect them to have. The obvious "I pretty much have everything. I'm desired for it" type of appeal. I think Lara's obvious obsessive compulsiveness makes her relatable to the world as just as flawed as you and me. And of course, people in the world with those same traits have issues keeping friends, much less a relationship or small spark of romantic interest in a person. It's hard to take any focus away from the only drive you really have in life.

This may sound like a cheesy way of arguing, but this was the best way I could put it into words.
o.-

Angry Dog
21st Jan 2011, 04:12
In the previous trilogy I rather got the impression that Lara had more affection for Amanda that any of the other characters (Larson included), and excepting mother Croft (who didn't really have much of a role and was more of a plot device than actual character).

True this is a complete reboot, but why is she assumed to 'have' to be strictly heterosexual if a romantic subplot were to enter into the new series?

Elliot Kane
21st Jan 2011, 15:30
LC gets my point :)

***

Adobe, what you are talking about is 'Lara Croft: The RPG', which may or may not exist one day, as the franchise seems to be sneaking closer and closer to it. In order to fully play out any romance subplot beyond the utterly shallow you need a huge amount of character interaction and character development, as in Dragon Age. Now, unless you are talking about a full-on party based RPG (And does ANY TR fan actually want that? I know I don't!) then we're kind of reduced to "Oh, that guy is hot!" type comments with no follow up. I fail to see how that makes Lara any more human. In fact, I'd say it would look like a blatantly artificial attempt to humanise for the simple fact that there IS no follow up.

To borrow your penchant for comic metaphors, you might say it's pretty much the same as making Northstar gay, then never, ever, allowing him to date anyone. It looks artificial and tacked on.

Of course, Lara could go The Witcher route, but I don't think you're seriously arguing for that... are you?

dark7angel
21st Jan 2011, 16:55
I totally agree with Adobe's point of view in this subject!

I think it just doesn't make sence to expect Lara to have no social life whatsoever and be 365 days a year raiding tombs! The girl surely needs a break from time to time and she surely has a circle of friends she eventually hangs out with! And as any human being she might get interested in a guy...

Does the love interest angle NEED to be in the next game? Probably not! But would it be important to character development? Yes!!!

And saying this angle could only be done right in a RPG type of game doesn't make any sense! I'm sorry to bring Uncharted to the topic (I know a lot of people really don't like the game!) but this is a perfect example of a non-RPG game that delivers a good story with fantastic character development and that includes a love interest (even 2 in the second game!)

LC is Me
21st Jan 2011, 18:36
And saying this angle could only be done right in a RPG type of game doesn't make any sense! I'm sorry to bring Uncharted to the topic (I know a lot of people really don't like the game!) but this is a perfect example of a non-RPG game that delivers a good story with fantastic character development and that includes a love interest (even 2 in the second game!)

I'm sorry if I sound prudish, but Uncharted isn't really a fair example to use though.
The style of the game has been set in stone since the first game.
It's expected for Nathan Drake to be the sort of "lady's man" he is portrayed as. It goes along with the Hollywood style of the game and the developers took the right approach in making it actually worth with the game. Guy kicks butt, makes weird, cheesy one liners, saves the world (or a small portion of it), gets the girl: you know, along those lines. So of course it works. In all honesty, it's the perfect example of a Michael Bay film in game form
o___O

When we are talking about a game series that has had to reboot so many times, it's really hard to say what will and will not work for the game, especially if it is a particular transition that has been pretty much absent over the course of the entire series. Of course, if they go about it the right way, and progressively move into that direction, I think it could work. I'd just roll my eyes a lot while playing.

dark7angel
21st Jan 2011, 19:14
I'm sorry if I sound prudish, but Uncharted isn't really a fair example to use though.
The style of the game has been set in stone since the first game.
It's expected for Nathan Drake to be the sort of "lady's man" he is portrayed as. It goes along with the Hollywood style of the game and the developers took the right approach in making it actually worth with the game. Guy kicks butt, makes weird, cheesy one liners, saves the world (or a small portion of it), gets the girl: you know, along those lines. So of course it works. In all honesty, it's the perfect example of a Michael Bay film in game form
o___O

When we are talking about a game series that has had to reboot so many times, it's really hard to say what will and will not work for the game, especially if it is a particular transition that has been pretty much absent over the course of the entire series. Of course, if they go about it the right way, and progressively move into that direction, I think it could work. I'd just roll my eyes a lot while playing.

Honestly, I find Uncharted a lot better than most od Michael Bay's films, but that's not the point here!

Sure, maybe for you my example wasn't the best, but I still think that this can be done in a non RPG game, wich was my point in the first place. And I'm not saying this needs to be done in the next TR game but it could be interesting if it did happen in the future of this franchise.

LC is Me
21st Jan 2011, 19:30
Honestly, I find Uncharted a lot better than most od Michael Bay's films, but that's not the point here!

Sure, maybe for you my example wasn't the best, but I still think that this can be done in a non RPG game, wich was my point in the first place. And I'm not saying this needs to be done in the next TR game but it could be interesting if it did happen in the future of this franchise.
I could have sworn I related that reference back to your point, but okay, whatever....

I didn't say or expect that it would be in the next game either.
My point is that it works with Uncharted because that's the formula players are used to.
:hmm:

Elliot Kane
22nd Jan 2011, 00:02
I think LC makes a very good point, there. It's a LOT easier to sell people on an idea that is, essentially, a cliché. They kind of fill in all the blanks themselves. It's like James Bond doesn't have to be all that convincing to get the girl, as everyone expects him to get the girl, so they just see the formula, roll their eyes a bit, and accept it.

There's no formula for Lara & romance, so the majority of gamers are going to need convincing - which means it needs to be a vastly more believable setup. People have to be convinced that Lara would find the guy interesting enough to go for, which means he would need to be a truly exceptional character in his own right.

LC is Me
22nd Jan 2011, 01:16
I think LC makes a very good point, there. It's a LOT easier to sell people on an idea that is, essentially, a cliché. They kind of fill in all the blanks themselves. It's like James Bond doesn't have to be all that convincing to get the girl, as everyone expects him to get the girl, so they just see the formula, roll their eyes a bit, and accept it.

There's no formula for Lara & romance, so the majority of gamers are going to need convincing - which means it needs to be a vastly more believable setup. People have to be convinced that Lara would find the guy interesting enough to go for, which means he would need to be a truly exceptional character in his own right.

Bolded is the kicker.
Everyone knows they wouldn't be pleased if the guy was a complete goofball or extremely stiff and dull (and BS to anyone who says they'd be happy because Lara's happy blah blah). Whoever Lara would go for (or force to chase her) would definitely have to be well developed himself.

The developers are (unfortunately) struggling themselves to develop Lara to their and, essentially, OUR liking. I don't expect them to try and delve further into Lara and her emotions when they haven't found the right personalities to suit her. There would have to be a lot of focus on him and making sure he is above par. In order for that to work, Lara needs to have all her ducks in a row.

Elliot Kane
22nd Jan 2011, 11:27
Absolutely, LC. And that kind of character building takes a lot of time to play out. I suspect it's why Core's original character background includes a 'long suffering fiancé' who is waiting patiently in the background for Lara, but who never actually appears in any of the games. Lara being engaged (Albeit to someone we never meet) takes romance off the table and allows the game designers to get right on with making Tomb Raider about, well, tomb raiding.

AdobeArtist
22nd Jan 2011, 17:26
LC gets my point :)

***

Adobe, what you are talking about is 'Lara Croft: The RPG', which may or may not exist one day, as the franchise seems to be sneaking closer and closer to it. In order to fully play out any romance subplot beyond the utterly shallow you need a huge amount of character interaction and character development, as in Dragon Age. Now, unless you are talking about a full-on party based RPG (And does ANY TR fan actually want that? I know I don't!) then we're kind of reduced to "Oh, that guy is hot!" type comments with no follow up. I fail to see how that makes Lara any more human. In fact, I'd say it would look like a blatantly artificial attempt to humanise for the simple fact that there IS no follow up.

To borrow your penchant for comic metaphors, you might say it's pretty much the same as making Northstar gay, then never, ever, allowing him to date anyone. It looks artificial and tacked on.

Of course, Lara could go The Witcher route, but I don't think you're seriously arguing for that... are you?

You are correct that a developed romance or love interest does require lengthy and detailed character interaction. But that's only possible in RPGs? It's never happened in traditional story based games? How about Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood, with Ezio's various encounters? Or Nathan Drake? Solid Snake? Alan Wake has a wife. Even in a cartoon sense, Mario is in love with Peach, lol.

In many examples, the way the main character's interact with their respective love interests is same as how they deal with their enemies and other allies - all based on the writers script. That's how it's been done for years. The scene played out before our eyes all being planned and scripted to forward the plot and advance the character development towards a goal.

It's great when the players can shape and direct the course of events for the character, believe me I am a huge RPG player and that's my favorite aspect of it. But that's for when you're role playing as your own character. When it's a pre-defined character you have to leave it in the writers hands, and hope they can craft a well rounded person, who is believable so that we can connect with them. Which does happen often enough, so a love interest is by no means the domain of just the RPG genre alone. It just takes talented writers who understand the human condition.

And getting back to my other point on emotional subtext to the character;

Just because someone feels something does NOT mean they will or are even required to act on it. Hasn't someone ever said or done something that made you want to just punch them? But you knew it was wrong or just not worth it, so you didn't. But that feeling and reaction you experienced was there beneath the surface. It's a tangible aspect to what makes you human.

Do you see what I mean now? Good character development is based on having a subtext to what makes the person how they are. It isn't always about the actions we see, but also what lies beneath the surface, made visible in expression and body language.

Lara may have reasons for not following up on an attraction, as many people is real life do. Be that too caught up in current situations, or where the attraction is countered by other internal factors like feelings of inadequecy, or too afraid to try (many people can relate to lost opprtunities of "should have" ), or numerous possibilities. In Lara's case in her earlier years she may feel undeserving of love until she's proven herself and earned her Croft legacy. I'm just spit balling here.

Going back to Spiderman, before he married MJ and was dating Gwen Stacy, back in his high scool years, just becuse he wasn't actively dating, doesn't mean he didn't want to. And if you read enough of the earlier comics you know that he very much wanted a woman's interest.

THE POINT BEING, while she doesn't need to be actively engaged in a relationship, there should at least be the emotional subtext that she has feelings and can experience a moment of attraction, regardless of what does or doesn't come of it. It's enough simply that the interest is there, even if just beneath the surface, which delivers a more fully developed and convincing human being, so that there's more to her than just being "the hot action heroin".

I hope I've been a bit clearer on that :)


I think LC makes a very good point, there. It's a LOT easier to sell people on an idea that is, essentially, a cliché. They kind of fill in all the blanks themselves. It's like James Bond doesn't have to be all that convincing to get the girl, as everyone expects him to get the girl, so they just see the formula, roll their eyes a bit, and accept it.

There's no formula for Lara & romance, so the majority of gamers are going to need convincing - which means it needs to be a vastly more believable setup. People have to be convinced that Lara would find the guy interesting enough to go for, which means he would need to be a truly exceptional character in his own right.

So in other words, it just takes some real effort on the part of the writers :) But isn't that what we as gamers should be wanting from them anyway? And not just in the romance area, but all aspects of the character development, from their general social attitutdes to the motivations of why they do what they do.

Elliot Kane
22nd Jan 2011, 22:29
Adobe,

I completely understand what you mean - I just don't happen to agree with you :)

As an RPG fan, if my character starts getting interested in something, I expect to be able to act on that. Anything from "I wonder what's in that cave?" to "S/he looks pretty cute!" I take as an in-game hint. So if Lara is thinking "Wow! Hot!" I would automatically assume I can get some meaningful dialogue going. If that's not the case, I'll just get annoyed.

I don't know if you ever read the Tomb Raider comics, but Chase Carver is pretty much the perfect example of how to build up a proper character for a relationship with Lara. Took a lot of time, a lot of dialogue and a lot of interaction, but you could see her realistically starting to get interested. Great - in a comic! The problem is that we're talking at least an hour of in-game dialogue spread over many months of game time. And a second playable character (Which, ya know, as long as he actually WORKS is not necessarily a bad idea...). Given that most TR adventures to date have taken place over the course of about a week, there's a problem built in right from the start.

The new game does look like it will take place over a longer time period than normal, but given that the main focus is survival and Lara will be totally up against it, the only real role for a love interest is to die horribly in the first ten minutes to give her something else to have to survive. Bit cruel, no? :D (Also cliché, which is worse!)

And the worst problem by far: selling the fanbase on the idea of what is sure to be dubbed 'The Lara Croft Dating Sim'...

pinkangel07
22nd Jan 2011, 23:06
Part of the attraction for many fans of the Tomb Raider games is that Lara is by herself, a self-made woman if you will, and doesn't rely on anyone else to get her through her adventures.

Most females in the media aren't depicting strong, independent women. (Yes it's gotten better since like, the 50s, but it's not progressing like it should...) Lara, I think, is a great role model because she's smart, athletic, classy, and doesn't throw herself after men.

I read somewhere that the game designers are trying to tone down Lara's sex appeal and are making her more vulnerable. I think this is great because it then showcases her will to survive, and not her perfect body. (ok so her body will always be showcased but that's part of Lara :))

SO to break it down... No Lara should not have a serious love interest, now or ever, unless it is with her trusty Desert Eagle ;)

Fickji
25th Jan 2011, 06:08
WOW, What's more passionate than Lara Croft's love life?


The fans interest in her love life.;)

Ummm.

Relationship - The being together with someone (in this case Lara) in a romantic way that has to do with true love, candlelight dinners and Romeo and Juliet viewings. Or Twilight for Twilight is good.

Love interest - The being together with someone (in this case Lara) with the sole purpose to flirt, check out or have a mutual limited time attraction for. Which ends in betrayal, death or friendly relationshipness.

I vote for Love interest cause I just don't see Lara as the chocolates and roses type of gal. Unless the true love wishes to give Lara the treasure map to a fabulas and deadly tomb.

It begs the question if AOD had been a good game would we still see Kurtis Trent in such a negative way. Blocky fingers still makes me shudder, in fear.

Cheese is nice.
25th Jan 2011, 08:04
Do you think Lara should have a love interest in the new game or sequels? I wonder what sort of guy she would go after. I could see her being interested in Chris Redfield or maybe one of those old fashioned Hollywood movie star type guys like Clark Gable or whatever.

It doesn't have to be an in your face, twilighty sort of romance. Just a strong relationship with romantic intent sort of thing. Maybe even something similar to the relationship between Emma Peel and Steed in "The Avengers".

First of all, Hi and welcome to forums if you haven't been here long, and if not, sorry I have been gone for quite a while. Now to address the above. . . er. . . situation. We get tons of threads like this all the time and I think the majority of the people will side with me when I say NO. Lara doesn't need a love interest and the first and last time they put in a love interest, Kurtis that is, the game didn't do too well. That being said, the main problem was with bugs in controls and stuff but I know that there is nothing in Lara's character that supports her ever needing or even wanting a man. She lives for archaeology and solving mysteries of the past. A man would slow her down and make her weak, and we ALL know how much the fans liked an angsty Lara what with the whole mother episode. (WHICH, BY THE WAY, I AM STILL INCREDIBLY SORE ABOUT AMELIA BEING A FRICKING THRALL!!!:mad2:) . . . But I digress. So no. No me gusta. :)

AdobeArtist
26th Jan 2011, 01:48
First of all, Hi and welcome to forums if you haven't been here long, and if not, sorry I have been gone for quite a while. Now to address the above. . . er. . . situation. We get tons of threads like this all the time and I think the majority of the people will side with me when I say NO. Lara doesn't need a love interest and the first and last time they put in a love interest, Kurtis that is, the game didn't do too well. That being said, the main problem was with bugs in controls and stuff but I know that there is nothing in Lara's character that supports her ever needing or even wanting a man. She lives for archaeology and solving mysteries of the past. A man would slow her down and make her weak, and we ALL know how much the fans liked an angsty Lara what with the whole mother episode. (WHICH, BY THE WAY, I AM STILL INCREDIBLY SORE ABOUT AMELIA BEING A FRICKING THRALL!!!:mad2:) . . . But I digress. So no. No me gusta. :)

First: Don't be too quick to discount the number of people who support Lara haveing a love interest. There are more than enough who wnt to see a fully developed and humanized Lara. If anything I would say this is the most divided issue.

Second: being passionate about one's pursuits does not preclude having a social life. I've been over that here and other topics of this discussion. It's simply not realistic that what ever the vocation is, no matter how dedicated they are love it, that it's the ONLY thing in their lives.

Third: Why why why WHY does it always come down to "a relationship would make her weak" ? Is this your outlook of relationships and human attraction in the real world? Really?

Cheese is nice.
26th Jan 2011, 03:03
First: Don't be too quick to discount the number of people who support Lara haveing a love interest. There are more than enough who wnt to see a fully developed and humanized Lara. If anything I would say this is the most divided issue.

Second: being passionate about one's pursuits does not preclude having a social life. I've been over that here and other topics of this discussion. It's simply not realistic that what ever the vocation is, no matter how dedicated they are love it, that it's the ONLY thing in their lives.

Third: Why why why WHY does it always come down to "a relationship would make her weak" ? Is this your outlook of relationships and human attraction in the real world? Really?

You are definately right about people having support of Lara in a relationship. You are right about tomb raiding not possibly being the only thing she had in her life. Obviously she is an aristocrat. Now to adress your third point. No, my personal opinions on relationships is not that they make you weak. But they do take up time. Lots and lots of time. Talking, flirting, texting, cuddling. . . all that jazz takes up time. Now am I saying that Lara will be doing all this? No. That being said, do you ever notice how workaholics barely have time for their families? Lara is a workaholic. She lives to raid tombs, explore the unknown and find answers to questions unanswered for centuries. A relationship, no matter how you slice it, takes time to build. After it is built, work is put into it to keep it together. Then you begin to trust and eventually love each other with all that other stuff in between. Now when you are Lara, you tend to have people who would love to see you fall and out of the way. What better way to go after someone than to go after the one person they love? That would make her weak to the enemy's attack. In my OPINION, her character was " weakened" if you will, more than enough with this whole mother thing. While a relationship may be nice, I personally do not think that Lara should have a relationship because 1. Loves her work, 2. Relationships take time to build and I'd rather just play the game than a dating sim, 3. It would make her weak both to enemies' attacks and possibly to the boyfriends attacks as well, 4. Mushy Lara is one Lara I really do not wish to see. Thank you for your time.:D

pinkangel07
26th Jan 2011, 03:09
Why why why WHY does it always come down to "a relationship would make her weak" ? Is this your outlook of relationships and human attraction in the real world? Really?

My opinion is that it takes away Lara's independence. As soon as you bring in a relationship that makes Lara "more human" as they say, that other character will need to be introduced to the audience carefully. It reminds me of Uncharted's relationship between Drake and Elena.

That being said, Elena is one of the main characters in Uncharted. I don't want Lara sharing the spotlight with another character, possibly as a dynamic duo. She doesn't need it =]

AdobeArtist
26th Jan 2011, 05:23
My opinion is that it takes away Lara's independence. As soon as you bring in a relationship that makes Lara "more human" as they say, that other character will need to be introduced to the audience carefully. It reminds me of Uncharted's relationship between Drake and Elena.

That being said, Elena is one of the main characters in Uncharted. I don't want Lara sharing the spotlight with another character, possibly as a dynamic duo. She doesn't need it =]

Where exactly is it written that dating means the immediate end of independence? A person involved in a relationship becomes incapable of doing anything on their own?

REAL couples do spend time togther for the simple enjoyment of each others company, AND they still do their own thing. They keep doing their jobs, hanging out with their guy/girl buddies, reading their favorite books, playing baseball, go rock climbing... what ever. Even though they have a shared life, they don't have to sacrifice their interests and personal pursuits. Not in a healthy relationship anyway.

So no, Lara getting hot for a guy wouldn't mean the end of her life of exploration. You think the guy would just sit at home waiting for Lara to get back? of course not. He'd have his own thing to do, until the next time they could get together and bask in hot passionate.... well no need to get into details, hehe :p:p

Point being, the whole idea that relationship means the end of life and independence is a MYTH.

But once again, this whole discussion has been heavily focused on a commited relationship, and I've been driving to get to the core of this - the human attraction which may or may not lead to a relationship. I directed a question to the opposers which still hasn't been answered;

Putting the whole relationship aspect aside, do you beleive Lara never simply experiences attraction to a man? Not ever?

jtr7
26th Jan 2011, 06:06
No. It means time must be taken to share that time and share of each other, which means a long-distance relationship for Lara or a tagalong, and then there's the easy leap to her companion getting kidnapped or killed or jealous, blah blah blah. It also could mean hiring another voice-actor, modeling another, and if the person isn't interesting or . She's not quite independent if her thoughts are divided, and she's thinking about and missing her companion, believes she needs the person, makes herself vulnerable if distracted, so these typical things need to be ignored or pasted on, reminding the player she's thinking of the other person. If the two of them totally never get in each other's way, and the other has no nagging problem with the danger she puts herself in (very rare among humans, and it's totally expected and extremely common), then she can seem independent while the other is an afterthought to the player, with only the fiction bringing the other into it. If you want her to be involved with someone in a meaningful way, then you must address her missions and endangerment in light of the other's wants and needs and time spent with her, thinking of her, and the same for her. I would expect heartbreak or gluttony for punishment and lots of time apart. It's rare for relationships like that to be relatable and successful.

It can mean any of that, or none of that. Just as you expect love to occur, we can expect love to not be part of the equation of the game itself. There is no rule that a person must find a match, and it's not an illness to love a lifestyle more than the idea of a mate.

Attraction is different than "love-interest", a component but not equal at all, and can come and go with a range of duration and intensity, with a range of distraction and guilt from fleeting to troublesome, without ever involving love, or needing to become love. So yeah, she can be attracted to many men, without it ever going beyond that, or needing to. Are you trying to "normalize" Lara?

Cheese is nice.
26th Jan 2011, 07:06
If all you want is attraction, she flirts with Larson in TRA a couple times. There. Done. But in our defense, you said " love-interest" which usually translates into either "boyfriend" or "friends with benefits", both of which seem INCREDIBLY out of character for Lara. I'd assume she'd want to settle down eventually, who wouldn't? But as long as these games keep coming, I forsee no "love-interest" until she's in her 40's at least. If video game characters are allowed to reach their 40's. She has a job to do. She doesn't have time to "experience attraction". She only has time to get her job done. That's how she's always been, and I personally want her to stay that way. No love interest. Flirt? Sure why not. Then kill him like she did Larson. :D

pinkangel07
26th Jan 2011, 23:48
Where exactly is it written that dating means the immediate end of independence? A person involved in a relationship becomes incapable of doing anything on their own?

REAL couples do spend time togther for the simple enjoyment of each others company, AND they still do their own thing. They keep doing their jobs, hanging out with their guy/girl buddies, reading their favorite books, playing baseball, go rock climbing... what ever. Even though they have a shared life, they don't have to sacrifice their interests and personal pursuits. Not in a healthy relationship anyway.

It's not written anywhere, it's just common that when people become involved in relationships they both compromise 50/50 on their lives, and I don't think Lara has the time for that. As you said, relationships take time and I don't really want to be stuck playing a Tomb Raider game where Lara is sharing in flirtatious banter with some guy that I don't really care about... I play the game to get to know Lara and her adventures =].

Cheese is nice.
27th Jan 2011, 01:55
It's not written anywhere, it's just common that when people become involved in relationships they both compromise 50/50 on their lives, and I don't think Lara has the time for that. As you said, relationships take time and I don't really want to be stuck playing a Tomb Raider game where Lara is sharing in flirtatious banter with some guy that I don't really care about... I play the game to get to know Lara and her adventures =].

This. Not only that, but I don't think I could stomach it. I love RPGs and all, but I always pass on that romance option. I don't think it fits her character anyways.

AdobeArtist
1st Feb 2011, 03:34
If all you want is attraction, she flirts with Larson in TRA a couple times. There. Done. But in our defense, you said " love-interest" which usually translates into either "boyfriend" or "friends with benefits", both of which seem INCREDIBLY out of character for Lara. I'd assume she'd want to settle down eventually, who wouldn't? But as long as these games keep coming, I forsee no "love-interest" until she's in her 40's at least. If video game characters are allowed to reach their 40's. She has a job to do. She doesn't have time to "experience attraction". She only has time to get her job done. That's how she's always been, and I personally want her to stay that way. No love interest. Flirt? Sure why not. Then kill him like she did Larson. :D

Do you actually mean the Larson encounter from the original Tomb Raider? Because I sure don't remember any flirtations or any indication of attraction in Anniversry.

Anyway "Love interest" itself can have two meanings. Sure one can refer to a casual dating encounter, but it does also imply just an "interest". As in she meets someone she finds an interest in, but that doesn't necessarily mean she would pursue it, for what ever reasons she may have not to. Like how many guys saw a woman they took an interest in, but didn't get involved with simply because they were too shy or afraid to ask her out.

Now when I'm talking about Lara experiencing attraction, I don't think you quite get my meaning. I mean when you say "she doesn't have time to experience attraction", you equate it with getting involved. Again I was NOT talking about relationships. I was describing feelings, that sudden attack of butterflies in the stomache, quickening of the heart, firing up of the loins, the "ohhhh my" reaction.... should i go on? ;)

Simply put, to encounter a man that she can feel an attraction to, regardless of what actually occurs between the two.

And finally, I can accept that Lara might not settle down until her 40's. But where "settling down" means committing to just one person and ending the time of dating around, it still allows for brief intimate encounters before that special someone comes along where one knows they don't need to look around any more.

So what I'm asking here is, for the next 20+ years until she might settle down, and let me emphasise this.... TWENTY YEARS, do you think Lara will never experience an attraction to any man? Never have a kiss or two? never have one night of intimacy? I'm sure as passionate and dedicated as Lara is to her craft (I never disputed that, only some people's ideas of what that really means) she can still have a single night of NOT tomb raiding.

Now what say you, cheese? You think she can't have at least a couple of intimate encounters over the next 20 years before she "settles down"? Or do you propose a healthy and vibrant woman will be a 40 year old virgin? :)

QiX
1st Feb 2011, 04:36
adobeARTIST, the issue here is simple: it's not about Lara, it's all about each player. If the player doesn't feel like flirting Lara also won't. If the player doesn't feel a strong enough bond with said character nothing will happen. I'm sure every Lara fan will feel connected with Lara, but everyone who plays the game will have different view on who would attract Lara. Some loved Larson, some loved Kurtis, the majority hated them. Some will even see Lara as a lesbian, why not? The point is: give them options and let them decide or simply cut off the love thing. If the romance can possibly annoy and upset a huge number of players it will be bad for business. They wouldn't think twice then before dumping the whole idea.

Elliot Kane
1st Feb 2011, 15:38
I think the bottom line is: will a romantic attraction/relationship/whatever add enough to the game that it's worth the time & effort involved in including it? I would personally say not.

Imagine the scenarios:

1: Lara being too shy to act on her attraction. Lara Croft. Too shy. Really? Does that sound like Lara to anyone? This would really damage the character, IMO. Lara's whole thing is that she is strong enough to go after what she wants.

2: Lara thinks some guy is attractive. The player then spends half the game trying to work out how in heck he can get Lara to follow up on that 'clue' and/or get her laid and/or AVOID ending up in an unwanted romance. Only to find it's not actually relevant to anything but is just a 'mood piece'. You wanna talk player frustration?

3. Lara is like James Bond: married to the job, but laying anything that moves. Completely careless of other people's feelings, she leaves a trail of broken hearts behind her, because it's all about the cheap thrills. Anyone see Lara like this? I know I don't!

4. Dedicated relationship. That's a few hours of game time right there, assuming it's not the 'long suffering fiancé' from the original TR. Good idea? You tell me...

5. 'The only man she has ever loved is dead'. Kinda boring but the only thing that might actually work. If it happens in game, though, CD will really have to sell that guy as amazing, which takes time.

Unless there's something major I've forgotten, every other option is some variation on one of those. Or - totally ignore it and leave the player to make up their OWN mind about what Lara gets up to romantically between missions. And ya know what? That sounds like the best idea, to me...

Cheese is nice.
2nd Feb 2011, 06:25
I think the bottom line is: will a romantic attraction/relationship/whatever add enough to the game that it's worth the time & effort involved in including it? I would personally say not.

Imagine the scenarios:

1: Lara being too shy to act on her attraction. Lara Croft. Too shy. Really? Does that sound like Lara to anyone? This would really damage the character, IMO. Lara's whole thing is that she is strong enough to go after what she wants.

2: Lara thinks some guy is attractive. The player then spends half the game trying to work out how in heck he can get Lara to follow up on that 'clue' and/or get her laid and/or AVOID ending up in an unwanted romance. Only to find it's not actually relevant to anything but is just a 'mood piece'. You wanna talk player frustration?

3. Lara is like James Bond: married to the job, but laying anything that moves. Completely careless of other people's feelings, she leaves a trail of broken hearts behind her, because it's all about the cheap thrills. Anyone see Lara like this? I know I don't!

4. Dedicated relationship. That's a few hours of game time right there, assuming it's not the 'long suffering fiancé' from the original TR. Good idea? You tell me...

5. 'The only man she has ever loved is dead'. Kinda boring but the only thing that might actually work. If it happens in game, though, CD will really have to sell that guy as amazing, which takes time.

Unless there's something major I've forgotten, every other option is some variation on one of those. Or - totally ignore it and leave the player to make up their OWN mind about what Lara gets up to romantically between missions. And ya know what? That sounds like the best idea, to me...

These scenarios are pretty much the only options. The majority (NOT EVERYONE) of players DO NOT want to see a " love interest". Simply because the majority don't, I don't forsee CD putting in a love interest. EVER. Maybe Scenario #5, But there is no way on this earth that you could sell any other of those scenarios to people who love TR as an adventure game and have followed the series from game one, and even if you could, there would be a mountain of other people who simply do not want this. Any way you slice it, it's kinda doomed.:flowers:

Oh wait I didn't see adobes post. To adress your question, Yes. I do think that Lara could be a 40 year old virgin. The Lara that I have come to know is one who goes after the things she wants. A man is not one of those things. She loves relics and history. I know people who have no sexual attraction at all. They live life absolutely fine. Not everybody needs romance and all that stuff. And I forsee IF(and that's a very big IF) Lara did any of that stuff, it would be to get to something she wants, like an artifact. I think Lara only needs "attraction" to one thing. . . Her work.

Katie_Fleming
2nd Feb 2011, 22:18
IMO, absolutely not. If Crystal wants to start over that's fine, but if they keep one thing similar, it should be that she remains single. Lara Croft bible anyone? Remember that? :rasp: This isn't a love adventure! Play the Sims if you want that ;)

Elliot Kane
2nd Feb 2011, 22:31
Actually, I think there is a way for fans of both ideas to get what they want, thinking about it. CD could continue to develop the Tomb Raider line as primarily action-puzzlers with Lara as the one and only main character, but the Lara Croft games (IE Guardian Of Light) could be developed into a party based RPG line with Lara as the main but not only character. This would allow a much greater focus on Lara as a character and the possibility of developing romances, should the player wish to do so.

Everyone wins, no-one loses, that way :) Well, except poor old CD who have to do twice the work, of course :D

Fickji
7th Feb 2011, 06:22
Side questing for love.


Those who wish it can do it.
Those who don't can ignore it.

Perfect. A purely optional thing.


Even if that means hitting the talk button to get the flirt option with the hot guy character. Or girl if you feel that way.

Tuneit
7th Feb 2011, 23:39
Speaking of love interests, remember Kurtis Trent from Angel of Darkness? Now that was interesting.

I remember that, and i think it sucked.
It just seemed out of place, Lara Croft is an incridible character, and she seem so unreachable! No one's good enough for her. Not even Kurtis... Or Nathan Drake for that matter.

I'd like to keep it that way.

AdobeArtist
12th Feb 2011, 20:40
Hey hey, been away a while, and I see I got some catchin up to do. So here goes :)





Oh wait I didn't see adobes post. To adress your question, Yes. I do think that Lara could be a 40 year old virgin. The Lara that I have come to know is one who goes after the things she wants. A man is not one of those things. She loves relics and history. I know people who have no sexual attraction at all. They live life absolutely fine. Not everybody needs romance and all that stuff. And I forsee IF(and that's a very big IF) Lara did any of that stuff, it would be to get to something she wants, like an artifact. I think Lara only needs "attraction" to one thing. . . Her work.

I don't think you know these people as well as you think you do. You may not see them with anybody, but that's only what you see on the surface. Underneath the surface they can and do feel attractions to other people or just have... to put it politely, urges... if you take my meaning. I may not have met them but it is inconceivable that any human being doesn't possess some measure of desire for intimacy.

And like I said before, it isn't always in the disney form of lovey dovey "oh this is the only one for me" romance. Attraction in its simplist form is that bological reaction, those funny little feelings we have all, at one point or another, experienced.

This idea that you and some other people have in which Lara can only feel something for her work and not any kind of human contact isn't even a human you're describing, it's more like a machine. That isn't what Lara should be.


Actually, I think there is a way for fans of both ideas to get what they want, thinking about it. CD could continue to develop the Tomb Raider line as primarily action-puzzlers with Lara as the one and only main character, but the Lara Croft games (IE Guardian Of Light) could be developed into a party based RPG line with Lara as the main but not only character. This would allow a much greater focus on Lara as a character and the possibility of developing romances, should the player wish to do so.

Everyone wins, no-one loses, that way :) Well, except poor old CD who have to do twice the work, of course :D

The problem with that idea, is that even if you split the franchise into two different game design series, they're still supposed to be about the same character.

My compromise is a much simpler one. What I have been driving at here isn't in making a love interest as part of the gameplay, just as part of Lara's background, in detailing her characterization, which is seperate from her physical abilities that pertain to her adventures.

So basically, she can possess the emotional depth of a person that reacts and feels, even if she doesn't actively pursue a relationship from that. This way, the pro group that want a humanized Lara get that, and the against group who don't want her being "entangled" in any commitments that take her away from her exploration, don't have to worry about those complications.

Everybody wins :) Though of course I myself would still endorse a fully developed relationship, and still say it doesn't compromise Lara's independance or her lifestyle as an adventurer.


I remember that, and i think it sucked.
It just seemed out of place, Lara Croft is an incridible character, and she seem so unreachable! No one's good enough for her. Not even Kurtis... Or Nathan Drake for that matter.

I'd like to keep it that way.

Nobody's good enough for Lara? Really now? You this, this is the problem with putting someone on a pedestal. It creates unrealistic expecations and standards.

***

And I wanted to touch again on the position that several people have taken; that the love interest element can only work as an RPG mechanic.

WHY?????

You speak about it like it's never been done in traditional scripted and linear story driven games before. I mean does the fact that Ezio, Solid Snake, Alan Wake, Sam Fisher (formerly married), Prince of Persia, Spiderman or numerous other pre-defined characters have or had a love interest, in any way ruins their characterization or the gaming experience?

In those non-RPG games you don't have the option to direct them on a path of solitude as you see fit. So does that make the game unplayable? Are you nay-sayers screaming at your screens, "no no no no [main character], don't go with her/him, that's totally wrong!!" ??

And I can show you my gamercard, I have very thoroughly played Mass Effect and Dragon Age series. yes, I do get the appeal in being able to develop the relationship as you choose to. But the reason you have that control in RPGs, what makes them RPGs in the first place, is that your are playing your own character creation. So of course they can be developed in which ever direction you desire, they have always been in your hands as what makes that type of gameplay.

http://card.mygamercard.net/nxe/adobe+ARTIST.png (http://profile.mygamercard.net/adobe+ARTIST)

Not the case with Lara. She is not your own creation, any more than Ezio or any of those afformentioned characters. They're the creations of the their respective develpers and as such, they're character development relies on the scripting provided. And I would say that in what has become very cinematic story driven games, it benefits the audience much more to have the most comprehensive & detailed characterization possible. Not just in romance but all facets of the person's background which would successfully bring to life a genuinely believable human being. The goal of all fictions.

Tuneit
12th Feb 2011, 21:26
I just cant't imagine Lara in a relationship.
I don't think her "relationship" with Kurtis worked out in Angel of Darkness.
The reason why it works out with other game-characters such as Solid Snake (as an example) is because it started from the very first game in the series, and therefore is a part of their character.

Also, the reason why i think Lara shouldn't have a relationship is simply because it's not important to the story.

Lara is not the only character i don't want to see in a relationship, i don't want to see Agent 47 in a relationship either.

The love element can work in any game genre, as long as it fits the character and the story of the game.

I'm not familiar with RPG's so i can't really comment on that subject :P

And yes, Lara is Crystal Dynamics's creation, they can do whatever they want, i just don't want to see them screw things up. That's it.

Elliot Kane
12th Feb 2011, 21:28
Adobe,


The problem with that idea, is that even if you split the franchise into two different game design series, they're still supposed to be about the same character.

Indeed. But 'same character, different emphasis' could work...


My compromise is a much simpler one. What I have been driving at here isn't in making a love interest as part of the gameplay, just as part of Lara's background, in detailing her characterization, which is seperate from her physical abilities that pertain to her adventures.

I was never opposed to the original 'long suffering fiancé who never appears' and I'm still not.

RosePetals
13th Feb 2011, 15:19
I'm a full-fledged Kurtis Trent fan girl, but personally I don't like the idea of Lara being in love (even if it is with a hot ex-Legionnaire with psychic powers). It's just not her. And it doesn't fit the whole Tomb Raider concept of lonely relic-searching, butt-kicking, free-falling adventures. She's a strong woman who always keeps people she cares for at an arms length, so I doubt she'd be into anything serious romance-wise.

Sure, if she were to fall in love, it'd make her more human, but the thing is, Lara Croft isn't human (and we have to accept that). She's a legendary video game icon. Yeah, I guess the upcoming new game makes her more realistic and believable as a person, but yeah, she'd still be a superhuman, right?

But who knows? :D

LC is Me
13th Feb 2011, 22:49
And I wanted to touch again on the position that several people have taken; that the love interest element can only work as an RPG mechanic.

WHY?????


Hell, can't stand love in RPGs.
But it's more tolerable because that's expected of RPGs.

QiX
15th Feb 2011, 05:11
And I wanted to touch again on the position that several people have taken; that the love interest element can only work as an RPG mechanic.

WHY?????

Because a linear story line don't leave space for choice, and the vast majority of the players are simply not interested in another relationship drama in the series. So here comes the usefulness of the RPG mechanic: if they come with another stupid Kurtis Trent at least give us the option to leave him talking to the hand while we simply go and explore yet another temple in ruins.

Cheese is nice.
15th Feb 2011, 05:19
Because a linear story line don't leave space for choice, and the vast majority of the players are simply not interested in another relationship drama in the series. So here comes the usefulness of the RPG mechanic: if they come with another stupid Kurtis Trent at least give us the option to leave him talking to the hand while we simply go and explore yet another temple in ruins.

This. However I disagree with making Tomb Raider an RPG. It's never been one and I sure as hell do NOT want to see it become one.

AdobeArtist
15th Feb 2011, 05:36
Ummm, guys, you only partially quoted me. :rolleyes: And the main reason I bring that up is because in the full post (previous page) I addressed the nature of love interests in linear story games where player choice isn't implemented.

LC is Me
15th Feb 2011, 21:16
Ummm, guys, you only partially quoted me. :rolleyes: And the main reason I bring that up is because in the full post (previous page) I addressed the nature of love interests in linear story games where player choice isn't implemented.
Too bad there was only one point in the entire post I wanted to focus on.
Because in some way or another, what you said in the entire post, you've already said, I've already responded to, and you are still going to think what you want to think. Which is ok.
But I won't make a chore out of circular debate.

Cristiavano
15th Feb 2011, 21:37
Maybe their idea of making her more human is giving her a love interest? I just wish they manage to avoid cliches if they go with it.

This guy in front of Conrad seems inmortant. ANd he seems to know what he is talking about when pointing at the map. SO he has to be an archaeologist too. And he is young. Could be a love interest. The reason why I am saying this is that he really reminds of Chase Carver from the TR comic books, who is this TR who had past with Lara.


http://www.videogameszone.de/screenshots/507x762/2010/12/tomb_raider_conrad_roth_screen.jpg

He especially looks like Chase Carver drawn by Joe Jusko
http://i.livescience.com/images/Jusko3-03.jpg
NO laras love should be a forbidden love like Conrad? i think

QiX
16th Feb 2011, 04:01
Ummm, guys, you only partially quoted me. :rolleyes: And the main reason I bring that up is because in the full post (previous page) I addressed the nature of love interests in linear story games where player choice isn't implemented.


And I wanted to touch again on the position that several people have taken; that the love interest element can only work as an RPG mechanic.

WHY?????

You speak about it like it's never been done in traditional scripted and linear story driven games before. I mean does the fact that Ezio, Solid Snake, Alan Wake, Sam Fisher (formerly married), Prince of Persia, Spiderman or numerous other pre-defined characters have or had a love interest, in any way ruins their characterization or the gaming experience?

In those non-RPG games you don't have the option to direct them on a path of solitude as you see fit. So does that make the game unplayable? Are you nay-sayers screaming at your screens, "no no no no [main character], don't go with her/him, that's totally wrong!!" ??

And I can show you my gamercard, I have very thoroughly played Mass Effect and Dragon Age series. yes, I do get the appeal in being able to develop the relationship as you choose to. But the reason you have that control in RPGs, what makes them RPGs in the first place, is that your are playing your own character creation. So of course they can be developed in which ever direction you desire, they have always been in your hands as what makes that type of gameplay.

http://card.mygamercard.net/nxe/adobe+ARTIST.png (http://profile.mygamercard.net/adobe+ARTIST)

Not the case with Lara. She is not your own creation, any more than Ezio or any of those afformentioned characters. They're the creations of the their respective develpers and as such, they're character development relies on the scripting provided. And I would say that in what has become very cinematic story driven games, it benefits the audience much more to have the most comprehensive & detailed characterization possible. Not just in romance but all facets of the person's background which would successfully bring to life a genuinely believable human being. The goal of all fictions.

Ezio, Solid Snake, Alan Wake, Sam Fisher, Prince of Persia... I couldn't care less about any of them actually. Maybe my lack of sympathy for them has something to do with them pushing soap opera elements down the player's throat, but there's more to it than just that. Actually most of them didn't even appeal to my interest enough for me to buy their games and get to play them. Except for Prince of Persia which I actually played a bit I didn't even know these games had romantic subplots. My point goes deeper to the character's conception.

Building a game character is easy, making him/her/it charismatic and interesting as a character is not. The odds are about the same as a winning lottery card being hit by a meteorite, tending to zero. Despite the fact that Ezio, Solid Snake, Alan Wake, Sam Fisher and Prince of Persia are the protagonists in awesome games they all seem shallow and unappealling to me. They fail epicly to hold my interest, even if their games are actually quite good. Lara is the opposite, specially the "new" Lara, so to speak. Even if I have no idea on how the new game will be, the character conception has something intriguing, compelling. Something clicks in my head and makes me want to buy the game right on the release day and play it all slowly, taking weeks or months to explore every little inch of the place and the story.

I don't say you need RPG mechanics for romantic plots work in a game, but to make it work in a linear story like TR would be like shooting flying bats in the head while blindfolded. To come with just one male character and expect the players to like him will simply not work. See by this thread, most of the fans hated the idea, people will whine all over the planet if they do it this way. As a marketing decision it would be too unpopular to be actually considered. Gaming companies don't bet their money just like that. It would be a fiasco, it's not going to happen.

Christie Luv
17th Feb 2011, 07:41
I'd like to see a lesbian love interest, but maybe that's me because I'd definitely picture myself as the other girl hehe. *love sigh*

Cristiavano
18th Feb 2011, 02:17
I'm a full-fledged Kurtis Trent fan girl, but personally I don't like the idea of Lara being love (even if it is with a hot ex-Legionnaire with psychic powers). It's just not her. And it doesn't fit the whole Tomb Raider concept of lonely relic-searching, butt-kicking, free-falling adventures. She's a strong woman who always keeps people she cares for at an arms length, so I doubt she'd be into anything serious romance-wise.

Sure, if she were to fall in love, it'd make her more human, but the thing is, Lara Croft isn't human (and we have to accept that). She's a legendary video game icon. Yeah, I guess the upcoming new game makes her more realistic and believable as a person, but yeah, she'd still be a superhuman, right?

But who knows? :D

she IS superhuman whenever you kill her she comes back to life unless since this game IS more real we would watch a computer screen for 5 years and watch Lara's virtual dead body rot...

Hoodedclaw
21st Feb 2011, 16:42
I hate the idea of a man in her life lol. But...................................................

Uncharted fans read on............................. If she had a relashionship like Chloe & Nate welll that would be good because at the end they could split up just like the game !!!! x

AdobeArtist
21st Feb 2011, 17:22
I hate the idea of a man in her life lol. But...................................................

Uncharted fans read on............................. If she had a relashionship like Chloe & Nate welll that would be good because at the end they could split up just like the game !!!! x

While you're generally against, I appreciate you still keeping an open mind :wave::flowers:

Charlie.T.Raider
24th Feb 2011, 01:47
I miss Kurtis. Couldn't they bring him back? He fit well with Lara.

mrskurtistrent
15th Mar 2011, 00:32
I miss Kurtis. Couldn't they bring him back? He fit well with Lara.

* tear* i wish they could atleast bring him in an upcoming game, or like some want ( like me) make a sequel to the angel of darkness! And bring karel back too for some more action! I thought playing him in the game was an interesting touch, i prefer lara still, but him as a character was awesome!

If TR9 doesnt turn out well like planned, i think as a reboot they should bring back the AoD story. But how rare that would be. That would be the day i discovered what is behind that door in Kameo: elements of power :(

WinterSoldierLTE
15th Mar 2011, 10:04
I'm up for Lara having a love interest. But I agree w/ a few people above: He (or she) would have to die. Not because of a "What?! Lara CAN'T fall in love!" reason. Just because a bit of tragedy such as that makes for interesting characters and/or character development. In my opinion, mind you. But I like things of a "dark" nature, so take that for what it's worth.

Silvermoth
15th Mar 2011, 10:57
I wonder if she would have a gay best friend?

Natla
15th Mar 2011, 12:21
I wonder if she would have a gay best friend?

Of course she would :)

As for Kurtis, is there any evidence that he was interested in women?

Silvermoth
16th Mar 2011, 08:58
Ha, I often wondered if Alastair was Lara's GBF

WinterSoldierLTE
19th Mar 2011, 12:53
Ha, I often wondered if Alastair was Lara's GBF

He seemed straight to me. Just a bit "nerdy" is all. Ok, ALOT "nerdy". Like, it's easy for me to see how he could go to a bar with every intention of meeting a girl and sparking a romance and not accomplish that goal. Then again, if a dude says: "Yeah, I spend LOADS of time with Lara Croft. She's great." how many girls are going to think: "Yeah, I've got a chance with him."?

LC is Me
19th Mar 2011, 13:28
He seemed straight to me. Just a bit "nerdy" is all. Ok, ALOT "nerdy". Like, it's easy for me to see how he could go to a bar with every intention of meeting a girl and sparking a romance and not accomplish that goal. Then again, if a dude says: "Yeah, I spend LOADS of time with Lara Croft. She's great." how many girls are going to think: "Yeah, I've got a chance with him."?
I think he was straight, just a bit of a metrosexual.
Spent a bit too much time on his looks...
I mean he could have been gay. LOL idk.
I don't care one way or the other, but it'd have been interesting.

xXTombRaiderXx
25th Mar 2011, 12:20
i think she should go out with like Drake person like her :)

tomb1fan
6th Apr 2011, 23:42
Do you think Lara should have a love interest in the new game or sequels? I wonder what sort of guy she would go after. I could see her being interested in Chris Redfield or maybe one of those old fashioned Hollywood movie star type guys like Clark Gable or whatever.

It doesn't have to be an in your face, twilighty sort of romance. Just a strong relationship with romantic intent sort of thing. Maybe even something similar to the relationship between Emma Peel and Steed in "The Avengers".

i dont Chris Redfield wouldn't match the concept of the game :mad2:i think Nathan Drake from Uncharted:thumb: would work though or bring back Kurtis Trent from tr angel of darkness

Jerion
7th Apr 2011, 04:11
I think Lara should have either a "flirt-interest" or an ex-SO. Active romantic relationships are really hard to sell in games, and usually kinda pointlessly done outside of a select few RPGs. A past relationship or something that could potentially become one are ingredients for a more interesting character.

Gemma_Darkmoon_
11th Apr 2011, 02:00
I think Lara should have either a "flirt-interest" or an ex-SO.

Lara having chemistry with a guy such as was done with TRA Larson and Kurtis is always good to see. I want to see more of that but not really a proper romance story.

Pulse
11th Apr 2011, 03:58
Laura shud totes dateee Kurtiss zomg!!!1!!!11! Dey r sooo cuteee!!!1!!1!1! :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I'm not being serious btw... just bored. Seriously a flirty relationship like with Larson, but more personal would be fine by me.

dashenjka13
11th Apr 2011, 18:24
I think it would be interesting:rolleyes:

Jilly The Taffer
21st Apr 2011, 02:00
She should meet Nathan Drake *___*

Natla
21st Apr 2011, 05:41
Maybe she could have sex with Conrad Roth and then kill him (like a Black Widow Spider).

RosePetals
21st Apr 2011, 09:07
She should meet Nathan Drake *___*

Definitely. :lmao:
That's be fun.

Greenas
21st Apr 2011, 22:22
Definitely. :lmao:
That's be fun.

NOOOO! She should kill him!!! hehehe.

I dunno, a relationship would kind of detract from Lara's strength of being independant. Or maybe Crystal could make it work...

WinterSoldierLTE
21st Apr 2011, 22:43
I've said before, and I'll say again: If Lara has a relationship, then he or she needs to die. Simply because a tragedy of that nature makes for an interesting character. That's just my opinion tho.


But.....




Didn't she and Duke Nukem have a fling back in the day? He's coming back, you know...

Denis..
22nd Apr 2011, 05:20
ya seems like that we will have a somewhat love story after all..

Greenas
22nd Apr 2011, 18:54
I've said before, and I'll say again: If Lara has a relationship, then he or she needs to die. Simply because a tragedy of that nature makes for an interesting character. That's just my opinion tho.

Yes I agree, to they can't stay together and some problem of a tragic nature must seperate them, possibly permanently.

Duckie1996
25th Jul 2011, 17:35
In Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life, remember Lara and Terry Sheridan, the part when they both kissed and at the end she kills him, I'd be surprised if something like that was in the game :\

LadyRufina
25th Jul 2011, 17:39
I'd love there to be a cutsie relationship. I don't want there to be a Terry Sherridan relationship where there's only witty remarks and banter, I want to see her really love the guy and then he DIES!! I know it sounds bad but it would really shape her character and I am all for seeing Lara shed a tear for once XD

sierra xb
25th Jul 2011, 23:17
I personally would not want to see Lara get involved with anyone in this game, because this is supposed to be all about Lara developing her character by surviving what she encounters on the island. Lara will have plenty of opportunities to have a relationship (short-lived or otherwise) in the next game or beyond, and I don't think it needs to happen here. I can appreciate why people might want to see that idea develop, but I think it is a little too soon for that. Lara will have to deal with enough emotional trauma simply by trying to stay alive, without having to over-complicate matters by giving her a love interest.

I have always found it a bit annoying the way that movies and tv portray people getting emotionally and romantically involved with eachoter after only a few hours of exposure. A realistic relationship takes a while to develop, so perhaps CD could introduce someone in the next game and a relationship could develop and THEN kill him off 2-3 games down the line.

LadyRufina
25th Jul 2011, 23:23
I personally would not want to see Lara get involved with anyone in this game, because this is supposed to be all about Lara developing her character by surviving what she encounters on the island. Lara will have plenty of opportunities to have a relationship (short-lived or otherwise) in the next game or beyond, and I don't think it needs to happen here. I can appreciate why people might want to see that idea develop, but I think it is a little too soon for that. Lara will have to deal with enough emotional trauma simply by trying to stay alive, without having to over-complicate matters by giving her a love interest.

I have always found it a bit annoying the way that movies and tv portray people getting emotionally and romantically involved with eachoter after only a few hours of exposure. A realistic relationship takes a while to develop, so perhaps CD could introduce someone in the next game and a relationship could develop and THEN kill him off 2-3 games down the line.

Oh no I don't mean in this game, that would be way too early, I mean in the future games so she develops more character and doesn't just suddenly turn into a badass right after this game comes out because really, they can't make another accidentaly shipwreck thing so they have to do something with a love interest branch to give her some depth further down the line. But like I said, too early to be worrying about that...

sierra xb
25th Jul 2011, 23:32
Oh no I don't mean in this game, that would be way too early, I mean in the future games so she develops more character and doesn't just suddenly turn into a badass right after this game comes out because really, they can't make another accidentaly shipwreck thing so they have to do something with a love interest branch to give her some depth further down the line. But like I said, too early to be worrying about that...

I would definitely agree. If we are interested in seeing a more personable and emotional Lara, then some kind of a relationship SHOULD develop in the future. Removing Lara's "nothing bothers me" teflon coating also means making her vulnerable to developing emotional attachments, so a future relationship would reinforce that and make her easier to relate to.

LadyRufina
25th Jul 2011, 23:46
I would definitely agree. If we are interested in seeing a more personable and emotional Lara, then some kind of a relationship SHOULD develop in the future. Removing Lara's "nothing bothers me" teflon coating also means making her vulnerable to developing emotional attachments, so a future relationship would reinforce that and make her easier to relate to.

And plus this game is going to a whole new market and maybe a good chunk of that market would like to see a love interest, it's the only way a can think forward of emotion in Lara after this game other than her friends and/or family dying...

IvanaKC
26th Jul 2011, 20:27
Since Lara is so young, she should have relationshipS. After a lot of disappointments, she just realizes that being on her own is the best and then she becomes independent, strong and fearless tomb raider. :D

VOLCOM20lovesLARA
26th Jul 2011, 21:18
like many others have said,
i do not think that Lara is the type of woman that needs
a male figure to keep her life interesting or satisfying.
if the developers of CD and SE do decide to create
a love interest for her, it could be bit appealing.
but otherwise,
Lara is well off the way she is ;)

LadyRufina
26th Jul 2011, 21:40
Since Lara is so young, she should have relationshipS. After a lot of disappointments, she just realizes that being on her own is the best and then she becomes independent, strong and fearless tomb raider. :D

Very much agreed!

LadyRufina
26th Jul 2011, 21:42
like many others have said,
i do not think that Lara is the type of woman that needs
a male figure to keep her life interesting or satisfying.
if the developers of CD and SE do decide to create
a love interest for her, it could be bit appealing.
but otherwise,
Lara is well off the way she is ;)

It's not to make her interesting, only to keep her down to earth and acting like a normal human being. Let's face it, Lara may not need a man to hold her hand in a life but she's not gonna become the badass she may be as a virgin will she now?

sierra xb
26th Jul 2011, 22:57
Looks like we might have a little teaser about this very question...has anyone seen the recent video posted by FirstPlay? It is a short little article on the new game and a short interview with Karl Stewart. Karl indicates that Lara and Roth have had a relationship, but does not specifiy what that relationship is...family friend maybe? Anyway, it got posted on YouTube so here's the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdD0Zht-SI0

Elliot Kane
26th Jul 2011, 23:28
It's not to make her interesting, only to keep her down to earth and acting like a normal human being. Let's face it, Lara may not need a man to hold her hand in a life but she's not gonna become the badass she may be as a virgin will she now?

Um... why not? Joan Of Arc wasn't exactly a coward was she? 'The Maid Of Orleans'? Then there's Elisabeth I, undoubtedly the greatest queen in England's history and one of the greatest monarchs of either gender: 'The Virgin Queen'.

I'm not entirely sure why Lara would need to have sex in order to be a badass. Indeed, one might argue that a certain degree of frustration might help! :D

***

EDIT: Rather more seriously, I think every Lara fan sees Lara in the way they want her to be, romantically. To some she is a sexual adventuress, to others she is a modern day goddess of the hunt - oft sought but never caught. Doubtless there are many shades between the two and every one of us will have our own opinion of what fits Lara best.

This is why I think it is best for any romance to happen off screen and in the players' imaginations only. None of us here are going to change our ideas of what Lara would be like in terms of her romantic (& sexual) activities. And that would include anything CD writes into the games.

Game glitches annoy. Centaur fights aggravate. But the real gunpowder barrel in the dormant volcano... is romance.

WinterSoldierLTE
26th Jul 2011, 23:52
The real gunpowder barrel in the dormant volcano... is romance.

Oh, that's good and so very true! Not just in games, but in RL. Mind if I use that line? I feel the need to replace my "It's always great 'till you realize what you've gotten in to" line.

I kid, I kid. Romance is fantastic, and relationships are absolutely worth every headache. So long as you're with the right person, that is. But that's another story altogether...

Elliot Kane
27th Jul 2011, 00:03
It has always been an ambition of mine to be 'The Quotable Kane'. :D

More seriously - I agree with you entirely, Winter Soldier :)

VOLCOM20lovesLARA
27th Jul 2011, 00:06
It's not to make her interesting, only to keep her down to earth and acting like a normal human being. Let's face it, Lara may not need a man to hold her hand in a life but she's not gonna become the badass she may be as a virgin will she now?


i stick by my opinion, but very well said! :lol:

LadyRufina
27th Jul 2011, 01:33
Um... why not? Joan Of Arc wasn't exactly a coward was she? 'The Maid Of Orleans'? Then there's Elisabeth I, undoubtedly the greatest queen in England's history and one of the greatest monarchs of either gender: 'The Virgin Queen'.

I'm not entirely sure why Lara would need to have sex in order to be a badass. Indeed, one might argue that a certain degree of frustration might help! :D

***

EDIT: Rather more seriously, I think every Lara fan sees Lara in the way they want her to be, romantically. To some she is a sexual adventuress, to others she is a modern day goddess of the hunt - oft sought but never caught. Doubtless there are many shades between the two and every one of us will have our own opinion of what fits Lara best.

This is why I think it is best for any romance to happen off screen and in the players' imaginations only. None of us here are going to change our ideas of what Lara would be like in terms of her romantic (& sexual) activities. And that would include anything CD writes into the games.

Game glitches annoy. Centaur fights aggravate. But the real gunpowder barrel in the dormant volcano... is romance.

I knew someone would bring in the whole 'Virgin Queen' thing but that was back then, when being a virgin was something seen as pure and innocent but now there's a stigma attatched and she can't be 'sexy' without having sex really in my opinion...

LadyHorus
27th Jul 2011, 03:33
I knew someone would bring in the whole 'Virgin Queen' thing but that was back then, when being a virgin was something seen as pure and innocent but now there's a stigma attatched and she can't be 'sexy' without having sex really in my opinion...

I think it's rather more the opposite when it comes to female leads and females in general really. If they're sexually active with men without commitments they're generally seen as being, for lack of a better word, sluts.

Personally I don't mind the idea of Lara having feelings for other people. Actually I would encourage that. And it's not just about relationships with men or women (romantically) but also as friends too. Take Conrad for instance, he was sort of a mentor figure for years. I'm sure he cares for her kind of like a father. And of course we all know about the mommy daddy story in the LAU trilogy (which personally drove me crazy). There's no reason she can't be involved with someone. I just wouldn't want it to become the center point of the storyline. And like someone mentioned earlier, I would hate it if they had whatever villain go after those she loved. It would be just like LAU all over again.

Besides whoever she would be with would have to be equally as interesting, strong and independent as she is. Just like the relationships they had in the comic series I think. That's one of the things I really liked about those is because they actually showed her to have human feelings. Don't get me wrong, I love Lara for her strengths, independence and drive to do what she loves but I don't think she's so far beyond being human. Growing up with her games since I was 12, I always thought it would be cool to actually get to know who she is someday haha. I don't think we've ever truly seen that. LAU was personally a flop for me, I just was unable to believe it lol. If they do want a more intricate storyline that involves relationships and such, they need to develop something really really well first.

The only reason I kept up with TR all these years and have bought every game is because I love the gameplay and what Lara represented to me. That a woman can be strong, smart, independent and classy while still being sexy. But I still would like to know who she really is and understand her personal struggles. Relationships are all part of that, and I have no quarrel with that. Games these days have very intricate storylines, so I don't see why Tomb Raider should be an exception. It just has to be carefully done, is all.

Oh and for the record- I did like how they introduced and presented Kurtis in AOD. He was interesting to Lara for some reason, and I liked that for once she was rather human to someone else who wasn't either some old guy she knew forever (like Werner lol) or just some accomplice. She had that so called "attraction" moment lol. I wouldn't go so far to say they were 'in love' but I enjoyed the chemistry that was there because it was written better. He was a mystery and somehow attractive while also being her competition, maybe enemy or possibly friend, she didn't know which. And she was never blind to her own personal goals just because of him being involved, either. Was a really well written story in my opinion, outside of Kurtis too of course. It's a shame we'll never be given it in its entirety.

dark7angel
27th Jul 2011, 09:26
I agree with LadyHorus in pretty much everything!
I also loved Lara's relationships in the comics, specially her relation with Chase Carver! I was so mad when they killed him off the story right when that relation was starting to develop...
And yeah, I loved the dynamic between Lara and Kurtis in AOD! It was really well written IMO (as was the whole storyline of that game!). And it showed really well that Lara can be attracted to someone and that doesn't have to interfere with whatever she's doing!

I'm all for a well written love interest to be included in a TR game! I would love someone alas Chase from the comics or something like Nate and Elena from Uncharted!

By the way, LadyHorus, are you Horus-Goddess from devaintART????

Driber
27th Jul 2011, 11:14
Karl indicates that Lara and Roth have had a relationship, but does not specifiy what that relationship is...family friend maybe?

Well, obviously not a romantic relationship. The guy is twice her age and he knows Lara since she was a little kid. Somehow I don't think the devs would encourage pedophilia :lol:

I think it's more some kind of a substitute father-daughter / uncle-niece relationship.

Yeah, that's it! Uncle Conrad :D

dark7angel
27th Jul 2011, 11:18
Well, obviously not a romantic relationship. The guy is twice her age and he knows Lara since she was a little kid. Somehow I don't think the devs would encourage pedophilia :lol:

I think it's more some kind of a substitute father-daughter / uncle-niece relationship.

Yeah, that's it! Uncle Conrad :D

I second this! :thumb:

Elliot Kane
27th Jul 2011, 12:05
Well, obviously not a romantic relationship. The guy is twice her age and he knows Lara since she was a little kid. Somehow I don't think the devs would encourage pedophilia :lol:

I think it's more some kind of a substitute father-daughter / uncle-niece relationship.

Yeah, that's it! Uncle Conrad :D

Sounds right to me.

d1n0_xD
27th Jul 2011, 12:15
Well, I need to write something too muahahahahahaha :p

Generally, I would go for Lara to have a boyfriend, but nothing related to the story, I don't want a soap-opera. Remember in the trailer, when she hang that map (did she? xD) ? My point is, it would be cool that she hang, like, a picture of her and her boyfriend, just for us to know that she has one, you know, college years, young, beautiful, smart girl, of course she'd have a boyfriend... BUT, nothing related to the story!!! Just a detail of her life, seen a second or two in the trailer. :D Hope I made myself clear XD

dark7angel
27th Jul 2011, 12:44
Well, I need to write something too muahahahahahaha :p

Generally, I would go for Lara to have a boyfriend, but nothing related to the story, I don't want a soap-opera. Remember in the trailer, when she hang that map (did she? xD) ? My point is, it would be cool that she hang, like, a picture of her and her boyfriend, just for us to know that she has one, you know, college years, young, beautiful, smart girl, of course she'd have a boyfriend... BUT, nothing related to the story!!! Just a detail of her life, seen a second or two in the trailer. :D Hope I made myself clear XD

That's actually quite nice, I think... just a little hint of her life, relevant to the character but with no connection with the actual story line of the game...

d1n0_xD
27th Jul 2011, 12:49
^ Exactly my point! ^^

WinterSoldierLTE
27th Jul 2011, 22:59
Well, I need to write something too muahahahahahaha :p

Generally, I would go for Lara to have a boyfriend, but nothing related to the story, I don't want a soap-opera. Remember in the trailer, when she hang that map (did she? xD) ? My point is, it would be cool that she hang, like, a picture of her and her boyfriend, just for us to know that she has one, you know, college years, young, beautiful, smart girl, of course she'd have a boyfriend... BUT, nothing related to the story!!! Just a detail of her life, seen a second or two in the trailer. :D Hope I made myself clear XD

That's brilliant. I like that.

sierra xb
28th Jul 2011, 00:04
Well, obviously not a romantic relationship. The guy is twice her age and he knows Lara since she was a little kid. Somehow I don't think the devs would encourage pedophilia :lol:

I think it's more some kind of a substitute father-daughter / uncle-niece relationship.

Yeah, that's it! Uncle Conrad :D

That's kind of what I was thinking as well. When Karl said in the interview that Lara and Roth had a relationship going back to when she was a child, I was thinking..."uh...I'm not sure I want to know about this", but you are right, I definitely like the Uncle Conrad thing. To, me that means there would be no room in this game for another relationship of any kind to develop, but certainly doesn't rule it out for the next game.

LadyHorus
28th Jul 2011, 07:10
I agree with LadyHorus in pretty much everything!
I also loved Lara's relationships in the comics, specially her relation with Chase Carver! I was so mad when they killed him off the story right when that relation was starting to develop...
And yeah, I loved the dynamic between Lara and Kurtis in AOD! It was really well written IMO (as was the whole storyline of that game!). And it showed really well that Lara can be attracted to someone and that doesn't have to interfere with whatever she's doing!

I'm all for a well written love interest to be included in a TR game! I would love someone alas Chase from the comics or something like Nate and Elena from Uncharted!

By the way, LadyHorus, are you Horus-Goddess from devaintART????

Exactly! :) If a future "love interest" ever were to happen, I would love it to be written equally or better as AoD and the comics. :) It would be perfect!

Oh, and yes, I am one and the same Horus-Goddess! ^_^ I'm glad someone recognized me hahaha. :3


Well, I need to write something too muahahahahahaha :p

Generally, I would go for Lara to have a boyfriend, but nothing related to the story, I don't want a soap-opera. Remember in the trailer, when she hang that map (did she? xD) ? My point is, it would be cool that she hang, like, a picture of her and her boyfriend, just for us to know that she has one, you know, college years, young, beautiful, smart girl, of course she'd have a boyfriend... BUT, nothing related to the story!!! Just a detail of her life, seen a second or two in the trailer. :D Hope I made myself clear XD

I also really really like that idea! :O

QiX
28th Jul 2011, 11:43
Well, obviously not a romantic relationship. The guy is twice her age and he knows Lara since she was a little kid. Somehow I don't think the devs would encourage pedophilia :lol:

I think it's more some kind of a substitute father-daughter / uncle-niece relationship.

Yeah, that's it! Uncle Conrad :D

This situation reminds me of something I noticed when I played Mass Effect 2 for the first time. Shepard (she-Shepard in my case) is given the chance to flirt and build a relationship with the most of the crew members. But the quest that made Shepard more humanlike to me was not romantic at all. It's when we give Dr. Chakwas a bottle of brandy and they get drunk in the medical bay. They laugh a lot reminding old times stories and raise glasses in a toast, then fade out and cut to the best hang oven scene I ever saw in a video game. I'm totally in for getting drunk with Roth, it could make an awesome scene.

dark7angel
28th Jul 2011, 14:19
Exactly! :) If a future "love interest" ever were to happen, I would love it to be written equally or better as AoD and the comics. :) It would be perfect!

Oh, and yes, I am one and the same Horus-Goddess! ^_^ I'm glad someone recognized me hahaha. :3

I also really really like that idea! :O

Ah! I knew it!!! :D You have some really awesome artwork!!!! And I LOVE your TR fanarts!!!! ^____^

nirvana1
28th Jul 2011, 22:16
will the guy who have sex whit lara have suffer? because she is so strong

LadyRufina
29th Jul 2011, 00:12
will the guy who have sex whit lara have suffer? because she is so strong

Let's not get carried away here, she may be strong but she's not bloody Xena! ;)

d1n0_xD
29th Jul 2011, 10:02
For the love of... :lol:

nirvana1
29th Jul 2011, 12:37
Let's not get carried away here, she may be strong but she's not bloody Xena! ;)

hmmm, you think maybe she love light and easy sex? :confused: :rolleyes:

Driber
29th Jul 2011, 17:33
Alright, that's quite enough, nirvana1.

I don't know if you're trying to troll, but lets get back to the subject.

LadyRufina
29th Jul 2011, 18:45
Alright, that's quite enough, nirvana1.

I don't know if you're trying to troll, but lets get back to the subject.

LMAO, agreed, I don't wanna hear about Lara's sex life I just wanna make the point that in my opinion you can't be sexy without having sex...

nirvana1
29th Jul 2011, 22:40
Alright, that's quite enough, nirvana1.

I don't know if you're trying to troll, but lets get back to the subject.

if i had mistake i'm sorry :(,but can u tell me what is really troll?

Driber
30th Jul 2011, 06:33
I'm sure you didn't mean any harm, so don't worry about it :)

If you still would like to know what "trolling" means on a forum, send me a PM and I will explain. I wouldn't like this thread to go off topic even further :)

WinterSoldierLTE
30th Jul 2011, 10:24
Lara needs someone who is willing to not only sit by and wait as she ventures out into the wild on her quests, but is also caring and willing to go the extra mile for emotional support when needed. Someone who will wake her up with breakfast in bed and a smile on his face everyday without fail. Someone who's funny, yet also able to treat the proper aspects of life with seriousness and the respect they deserve. She needs to be with a creative personality as well. Also suave and sophisticated. A cool cat that whenever he walks into a room of strangers, everyone looks and says: "My God! Who IS that absolutely ravishing man?". And he should be a mans man, as well, but still not afraid to put on the pink "Kiss the cook" apron when he's barbequeing because Lara thinks he looks cute in it.

Who is the only person on the planet that is not only fitting, but more importantly WORTHY of Lara's affection?

You guessed it! Frank Stallone.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm209/WinterSoilder/frank.jpg

h0n24
4th Feb 2013, 01:59
I've always wondered what's her love interest.

I think a) she is a girl "you're not good enough for me"

or b) there is a big sad story, maybe she was raped in past or something similar


This topic made me wanna create a picture. Maybe you'll like it! :)

http://h0n24-cz.deviantart.com/#/d5triav

Wh1t3Kn1te
4th Feb 2013, 02:00
yes she has a love interest.

ohh wait your talking about the Lara Croft in the game world, lol

umm, she's typically a loner and isnt interested in relationships of that type, but im sure if the right guy came along she would take a stab at it.

gtbka
4th Feb 2013, 02:05
Maybe she love woman! Games need to give people to imagine something!

Relight-TRHQ
4th Feb 2013, 02:11
http://h0n24-cz.deviantart.com/#/d5triav
LOL well definitely a good way to resurrect a topic, nice fan art! By the way, check out the fan art thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=118167)!

On the topic, the FAQ (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=124504) does have an answer from Karl confirming that a love interest isn't happening. But he does leave the door open, so now I guess we can continue the speculating for a future game!


Karl Stewart: “I’ve read and fed into the script now on many, many occasions, and I can tell you that there is no love interest in this game. She is trying to survive. She is busy. Surviving the situation is all she can cope with right now; surviving a relationship would be a bit tough. In one of the next releases we could possibly see this more human Lara meet someone, but that is way over the horizon.” [From official forum Q&A session #1 (January 2012)]

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 02:36
snap, this is a hell of a bump :lol:

Stringer2355
4th Feb 2013, 03:12
They are using the "Hero's Journey" as a model for Lara's story , no need for a love interest.

Extra T
4th Feb 2013, 03:18
No! I dont think she needs one. But I would love to have CD bring a character who is important like for ex. Kurtis he was important to the plot in AOD let Lara get use to the person and so will the players. Then snap his little NECK!!!:lol:


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw66qd48nb1r6mr02o1_500.gif

MagnaBass
4th Feb 2013, 07:07
No! I dont think she needs one. But I would love to have CD bring a character who is important like for ex. Kurtis he was important to the plot in AOD let Lara get use to the person and so will the players. Then snap his little NECK!!!:lol:


http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lw66qd48nb1r6mr02o1_500.gif

I would certainly love to see that in a tomb raider game:)

Metalrocks
4th Feb 2013, 07:49
i personally woulndt mind to see lara having a person she cares for. even if its a close friend (male or female). but her having an actual boyfriend or even girlfriend would be an interesting view as well.

why i say girlfriend!? maybe because of laras survival on an island full of scavengers, that are clearly male (at least from what we saw), lara is afraid or very uncomfortable to get close to a man and feels saver to be among her own sex.
i know not everyone would agree with me here, im just expressing my opinion to this situation. i just think it would make sense as well, because it psychologically affects lara. that would be an understandable reaction in future titles.

understandably no relationship in this game but in future titles it could happen. maybe even give the player the choice if they want lara to have a relationship. choosing any of these actions could affect the outcome.

Jurre
4th Feb 2013, 12:58
It all depends on how it is executed.

There is a love scene in the first Ubisoft Prince of Persia game that is just perfect in my opinion. It's tender and beautiful, and it serves the story. And it is perfectly serious: no Leslie Nielsen style toilet humour...

Don't worry; there's no adult material in there - it's on Youtube after all, so there's nothing that Youtube wouldn't allow...

by3vfozKbfg

If Tomb Raider would handle a relationship and/or sexscene like that I'm all on board.

Driber
4th Feb 2013, 13:56
snap, this is a hell of a bump :lol:

Heh, new members putting the forum search feature to good use :)

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 14:31
I remember that scene in PoP. It not only illustrates a love scene with artistic integrity, but is also a great example of how such moments drive the story and character development when provided underlying context.

Metalrocks
4th Feb 2013, 14:35
yes, it really depends how they execute it. maybe not that romantic but at least an emotional moment as we saw in the mass effect games. especially when you romance liara.
even the sex scenes were well done without revealing body parts.

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 16:34
yes, it really depends how they execute it. maybe not that romantic but at least an emotional moment as we saw in the mass effect games. especially when you romance liara.
even the sex scenes were well done without revealing body parts.

This is the key to it. Most people focus only on the external action, and not enough on the internal emotional subtext. And that's what drives the character development.

Thetford
4th Feb 2013, 16:54
I suppose if it could be handled subtly - maybe a read in between the lines, a throwaway line of speech, or just the subtle odd reference where if you do not pay that close enough attention, you miss it.

Though I disagree with many that Lara has to be with an adventurous athletic guy akin to Larson Conway, I think she thinks that those sort of guys are beneath her, and merely teases them. Instead I think she would be more suited to someone who appealed to her academic and scholastic side of her, the more geeky adorkable type, this means that while he stays back in Britain (assuming that is still going to be her permanent place of residence, well you never know, she could have a penthouse in Vancouver for all we know at the moment), it means such a love mechanic isn't intrusive to those who wish not to be intruded on by such a mechanic.

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 18:48
I suppose if it could be handled subtly - maybe a read in between the lines, a throwaway line of speech, or just the subtle odd reference where if you do not pay that close enough attention, you miss it.

Though I disagree with many that Lara has to be with an adventurous athletic guy akin to Larson Conway, I think she thinks that those sort of guys are beneath her, and merely teases them. Instead I think she would be more suited to someone who appealed to her academic and scholastic side of her, the more geeky adorkable type, this means that while he stays back in Britain (assuming that is still going to be her permanent place of residence, well you never know, she could have a penthouse in Vancouver for all we know at the moment), it means such a love mechanic isn't intrusive to those who wish not to be intruded on by such a mechanic.

I actually had the same thoughts myself. Namely because going for the adventurer type seemed too obvious, and I like more unconventional things. I also found it could provide some amusing contrast - an academic type to whom mythology is all abstract, that what he studies as theory only, is very real to Lara :p

Also it could serve to ground Lara outside the times she off on extraordinary adventures.

But even that said, I still think a great match for Lara would be the strong adventurer type, who also shares similar background of rich upper society upbringing, as well as the common ground of parental tragedy.

Yep, I DO mean BATMAN :D:D

dark7angel
4th Feb 2013, 18:50
I actually had the same thoughts myself. Namely because going for the adventurer type seemed too obvious, and I like more unconventional things. I also found it could provide some amusing contrast - an academic type to whom mythology is all abstract, that what he studies as theory only, is very real to Lara :p

Also it could serve to ground Lara outside the times she off on extraordinary adventures.

But even that said, I still think a great match for Lara would be the strong adventurer type, who also shares similar background of rich upper society upbringing, as well as the common ground of parental tragedy.

Yep, I DO mean BATMAN :D:D

Or Oliver Queen! :rasp::naughty::naughty:

nevillet
4th Feb 2013, 18:54
the more geeky adorkable type

"Adorkable"? Love it!! :lmao:

Weemanply109
4th Feb 2013, 18:57
I wouldn't mind if it was a crush, kind of thing. Basically Lara likes one of the men in the game, but doesn't cling onto them too much, afterall, she's supposed to be a really independent female. Nothing that affects the story too much, preferably.

Maybe just like, flirting and stuff between her interest during dialogue and maybe they can pursue a relationship in a future game. :p

pomeranianpuppy
4th Feb 2013, 19:09
I suppose if it could be handled subtly - maybe a read in between the lines, a throwaway line of speech, or just the subtle odd reference where if you do not pay that close enough attention, you miss it.

Though I disagree with many that Lara has to be with an adventurous athletic guy akin to Larson Conway, I think she thinks that those sort of guys are beneath her, and merely teases them. Instead I think she would be more suited to someone who appealed to her academic and scholastic side of her, the more geeky adorkable type, this means that while he stays back in Britain (assuming that is still going to be her permanent place of residence, well you never know, she could have a penthouse in Vancouver for all we know at the moment), it means such a love mechanic isn't intrusive to those who wish not to be intruded on by such a mechanic.

Yeah no muscle men types. I'd like it to be someone like Zachary Levi's multiplayer character :D

Weemanply109
4th Feb 2013, 19:15
If Lara gets any offers from guys that she isn't into she can pitch their number to me. :p

#FatSingleAndEatingAllThePringles

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 19:23
Or Oliver Queen! :rasp::naughty::naughty:

shewt, how could I forget him? :whistle: :o But wait, were his parents murdered also, or departed under dubious circumstances? I know in the TV series (and woot WOOOOOT, it's back!! :D ) his father is dead, but not the mother. I'm not as sure with the comics source material.


"Adorkable"? Love it!! :lmao:

seal of approval :D :thumb::thumb::thumb:

dark7angel
4th Feb 2013, 19:27
shewt, how could I forget him? :whistle: :o But wait, were his parents murdered also, or departed under dubious circumstances? I know in the TV series (and woot WOOOOOT, it's back!! :D ) his father is dead, but not the mother. I'm sot as sure with the comics source material.


His parents were mauled by lions in a safari accident and his hesitation to shoot cost them their lives.

AdobeArtist
4th Feb 2013, 19:40
His parents were mauled by lions in a safari accident and his hesitation to shoot cost them their lives.

YIKES!! :eek::eek: That is a hell of a way to go.
I mean even being shot by a mugger is gentle by comparison.

dark7angel
4th Feb 2013, 21:42
YIKES!! :eek::eek: That is a hell of a way to go.
I mean even being shot by a mugger is gentle by comparison.

That was exactly my reaction when I read it!

I thought it was already pretty bad that Ollie had to watch his father kill himself to give him a chance to survive on the TV series, but when I read the comic cannon, man, the series was actually pretty gentle on that aspect.

Tallantis
5th Feb 2013, 02:26
I'm not totally against a love story, I love good ones but when I think about the last try with Kurtis. And I puked...xD No please no, Lara is a fine lone wolf add some good friends, mates, "nakama (anime fans will approve)" like in Legend (yes I know Zip is from Cronicles) and everything is fine. Better a good team than a bad love story.

But i you can't resist, let the lover die again xD.

Relight-TRHQ
5th Feb 2013, 03:06
Yeah no muscle men types. I'd like it to be someone like Zachary Levi's multiplayer character :D
:lol:

Zac and Lara, I can just see it now... :p

I absolutely agree though, no muscle men types :)

Karenich
21st Mar 2013, 14:56
Hey, everyone!

I would like to ask you if you think Lara having a love interest in a future game is a good idea or not?

Personally I believe it would be quite cheesy and would become really jealous too)

Jurre
21st Mar 2013, 15:19
It all depends on how it is done. Sure love stories are usually cheesy, but if someone can write one that is not - well... great!

If it is done right I have no problem with Lara having a love interest, preferably straight, and as long as it does not become too permanent - maybe let the guy die after one game ... I think he also shouldn't be too manly or too badass, or look like a guy who belongs on a chippendale calendar.

Maybe it's best if the relationship is more flirtatious than 'true love'; that way it keeps the tension high... I have referenced the love scene from Prince of Persia The Sands of Time before; if a sexscene was done this way I would love it, as it is really beautiful...

AdobeArtist
21st Mar 2013, 15:52
Heeeeeeeeere we go AGAIN :nut::lol::D

Relight-TRHQ
21st Mar 2013, 15:57
I would like to ask you if you think Lara having a love interest in a future game is a good idea or not?

Heeeeeeeeere we go AGAIN :nut::lol::D
Heh, I think we can keep this discussion going in the existing thread on this exact topic ;) since the OP does ask whether Lara should have a love interest in the new game, or sequels...

Now that Tomb Raider is released and we know what's happened, does that change your opinion on whether she should have a love interest? And... go!

jcsrplumply
21st Mar 2013, 15:59
Please noo, she's mineeeeeee!

AdobeArtist
21st Mar 2013, 16:03
Heh, I think we can keep this discussion going in the existing thread on this exact topic ;) since the OP does ask whether Lara should have a love interest in the new game, or sequels...

Now that Tomb Raider is released and we know what's happened, does that change your opinion on whether she should have a love interest? And... go!

heh, and now that it's brought back here, the guy who made the new thread, and all the other newcomers, can retrace this to see all the posts I made with my position on this subject.

Namely bringing out Lara's emotional depth, the variations on human relationships, character structures founded on underlying wants & needs, treating Lara like a mature adult (as well as respecting tha audience the same way) and all that other rich stuff :D

blackseed32
21st Mar 2013, 18:39
What if Lara would be a crush for someone in the game and the guy is trying to go where Lara is adventuring and then he goes in trouble and then Lara needs to save him instead of finding a great mystery.




But still I don't want love in TR.

Driber
21st Mar 2013, 18:48
Head's up, folks - looks like we'll be merging these 2 threads soon, as they are both basically discussing the same topic:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=116011

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=134386

AdobeArtist
21st Mar 2013, 19:14
But still I don't want love in TR.

I think the issue with some people stems from a very homogenized idea of "love" without taking into account the wider emotional range it really encompasses. The word in it's simplistic usage evokes the traditional and overly idealized fairy tail "true love" cliche. We're talking heart dazzled eyes, music in the air, where have you been all my life, the prince meets his princess, swept off her feet, happily ever after sort of deal.

People always refer to this overly idealized love affair in the context of a committed long term relationship. A simplified scenario that two people who meet are so perfectly ideal for each other, the proverbial match made in heaven.

So let's not even use "love" for this discussion. All I'M talking about (what I've been talking about from the beginning) is simply getting in touch with Lara's feelings in an emotional context of attraction. Simply realizing that she, like any human being, has wants, needs, and desires.

And let me be clear on this, those traits while being common to most people, do not manifest in the same way from one individual to another. For some it's purely raw sexual desire on a physical level. For others it may be an emotional intimacy, but even that doesn't necessarily mean long term commitment. Just that the needs of the moment are satisfied. People are social by nature. Even shy people, while they have difficulty engaging in social interaction, that does not mean they don't want to.

Lara deserves all the consideration of a mature adult treatment, that she does have feelings same as anybody else. In what form they reside beneath her surface is open to many possibilities. Like I said, we can stay far away from the Disney Princess romance. My outlook has always been to keep it grounded.

It need only be as simple as Lara meets a man that she (as a woman) finds attractive. That's it really, it's the foundation of all relationships, from one night stands to the long term that leads to marriage. And maybe all we need for now, is the casual relationship to start - they have a few dates, they kiss from time to time, tease one another, flirt, get to know one another, aaaaand even if it does lead to sex, guess what? That doesn't mean they made any commitment or are gonna get married the next day.

You know, something like how attraction and dating applies in the real world. It may only last for a week, or maybe a few months, and like most people, she may date a few guys for how ever long it lasts (from all the times she'll be asked out, how many times do you expect her to say no?) until she does find a more suitable partner. But either way it provides tangible character development for Lara. Let's try it that way and see where it goes from there ;)

blackseed32
21st Mar 2013, 19:59
I think the issue with some people stems from a very homogenized idea of "love" without taking into account the wider emotional range it really encompasses. The word in it's simplistic usage evokes the traditional and overly idealized fairy tail "true love" cliche. We're talking heart dazzled eyes, music in the air, where have you been all my life, the prince meets his princess, swept off her feet, happily ever after sort of deal.

People always refer to this overly idealized love affair in the context of a committed long term relationship. A simplified scenario that two people who meet are so perfectly ideal for each other, the proverbial match made in heaven.

So let's not even use "love" for this discussion. All I'M talking about (what I've been talking about from the beginning) is simply getting in touch with Lara's feelings in an emotional context of attraction. Simply realizing that she, like any human being, has wants, needs, and desires.

And let me be clear on this, those traits while being common to most people, do not manifest in the same way from one individual to another. For some it's purely raw sexual desire on a physical level. For others it may be an emotional intimacy, but even that doesn't necessarily mean long term commitment. Just that the needs of the moment are satisfied. People are social by nature. Even shy people, while they have difficulty engaging in social interaction, that does not mean they don't want to.

Lara deserves all the consideration of a mature adult treatment, that she does have feelings same as anybody else. In what form they reside beneath her surface is open to many possibilities. Like I said, we can stay far away from the Disney Princess romance. My outlook has always been to keep it grounded.

It need only be as simple as Lara meets a man that she (as a woman) finds attractive. That's it really, it's the foundation of all relationships, from one night stands to the long term that leads to marriage. And maybe all we need for now, is the casual relationship to start - they have a few dates, they kiss from time to time, tease one another, flirt, get to know one another, aaaaand even if it does lead to sex, guess what? That doesn't mean they made any commitment or are gonna get married the next day.

You know, something like how attraction and dating applies in the real world. It may only last for a week, or maybe a few months, and like most people, she may date a few guys for how ever long it lasts (from all the times she'll be asked out, how many times do you expect her to say no?) until she does find a more suitable partner. But either way it provides tangible character development for Lara. Let's try it that way and see where it goes from there ;)

I got your idea. A relationship may even come in this sequel. If CD decides to put Lara in a relationship, they would go for casual kisses, dates, flirting, coming close to one another but I don't think for sex, IMO they wouldn't go that far. It's a major risk for them because the fans could react in a thousand different ways like : "Great love story. She deserved him after all the things she's been through!" or "That guy is such a jerk, If Lara stays with him I will never buy another TR!" but of course there are people who understand Lara's feelings and who don't.
Lara evolved, emotions too, I wouldn't mind Lara getting on with someone on a relationship as long as it does not last forever.

Jurre
28th Mar 2013, 11:31
Would Jonah not be a suitable boyfriend for Lara? I mean although his head looks like potato he's a giant burly gentle sweetheart, perhaps this represents the sort of character traits miss Pratchett and probably many other women would like to see in a man...?

DrCroft
28th Mar 2013, 13:31
Poor Alex didn't last long enough to be placed in this discussion :nut:

GrimAquatic
28th Mar 2013, 13:36
Now that Tomb Raider is released and we know what's happened, does that change your opinion on whether she should have a love interest? And... go!

No, neither in upcoming sequel, nor in any of the following games.

Elessar78
28th Mar 2013, 14:08
I'm open to pretty much everything, as long as it's done well.

IRON LOBSTER
28th Mar 2013, 14:58
Lara needs a young, handsome, male love interest in a, caring, supportive, 'rescue me' role in the next game just to troll all those creepily possessive TR fans that don't want her to have a romance option so that they mentally appropriate her for themselves.

And to troll all those players that would feel 'weird' watching a female lead under their control kiss a dude...

_Ninja_
28th Mar 2013, 15:09
Love interest could add something or it could more easily ruin it.

GrimAquatic
28th Mar 2013, 15:09
Lara needs a young, handsome, male love interest in a, caring, supportive, 'rescue me' role in the next game just to troll all those creepily possessive TR fans that don't want her to have a romance option so that they mentally appropriate her for themselves.

And in the game after that he'll go mad and will pose as Jimmy Hoffa, back from vacation. All labor leaders will bow before him, and help him utilize the giant industrial complex to build The Forced Vertoconvector. It will create millions of tiny steaming geysers that will actually lift people several inches off the ground, immobilizing them.


And to troll all those players that would feel 'weird' watching a female lead under their control kiss a dude...

You can do that in Mass Effect and Dragon Age.

IRON LOBSTER
28th Mar 2013, 15:12
I loved Thane...

AND KEPRAL'S SYNDROME TOOK HIM FROM ME!!!

DrCroft
28th Mar 2013, 15:33
And to troll all those players that would feel 'weird' watching a female lead under their control kiss a dude...

Remember me? ;)

I do hope if there are any hints of a love interest in upcoming games that there is a kurtis Easter egg, like his teeshirt on a chair or something. No particular reason other than I'd find it amusing :D

Daftvirgin
28th Mar 2013, 16:42
Lara needs a young, handsome, male love interest in a, caring, supportive, 'rescue me' role in the next game just to troll all those creepily possessive TR fans that don't want her to have a romance option so that they mentally appropriate her for themselves.

And to troll all those players that would feel 'weird' watching a female lead under their control kiss a dude...

We are not creepy! We just love Lara and rather have the devs not inflict more pain to us because the fact that we are well aware that Lara is a fictional character is painful enough.

Splorin
28th Mar 2013, 18:56
I think Lara's been around (and single) for so long that if they do give her a love interest, everyone and their uncle is going to have an opinion about it and throw hissy fits left and right. They'd probably upset people more than please them because that's usually how it goes. Or is that just me transferring my personal feelings on the matter..? ;)

Seriously though, they could always do that, but I'd rather they didn't. That's not to say I'd automatically dislike whoever got her attention. I'd probably be jealous, but let's ignore that, shall we?

Lara_Fan_84
28th Mar 2013, 19:15
I wouldn't like it. As others have said, it would be too out of place.

Rinu
28th Mar 2013, 20:04
I hope they will try to build strong friendships or work-like relationships through the franchise that feel real instead of "Omg, you're so awesome" admirers. It's something pretty rare and needed.

As for love interest, sure. Something like Uncharted Nathan/Elena relationship could be cool. Very subtle, more about having an intimate bond than having a sexual relationship. I'm all for female interest in that case but not Sam. I don't need it however I'd welcome it.


I'm open to pretty much everything, as long as it's done well.
Elessar78 sums it up nicely :).


Also: love interest in the context of this game I would find pretty unbelievable. I mean... she's fighting for her life in a hostile environment. It would be as stupid, I dunno, Commander Shephard hooking up with one of his crew whilst out trying to save the galaxy....
Soldiers visit brothels and people get married or hook up during wartime. I don't really see any reason for overdramatization regarding ME personal storylines, especially considering that Shepard's saga covers time span of 3 years.

Wild
11th Apr 2013, 13:30
Would prefer if she had a female love interest.
Or no love interest at all.

Elliot Kane
11th Apr 2013, 14:05
And to troll all those players that would feel 'weird' watching a female lead under their control kiss a dude...

I think that's a bizarre fantasy created by people in the industry, honestly. I've never seen or heard any actual gamer say that.

What's weird to me is that after the enormous success of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect anyone might think it was a problem.

Any gamer who genuinely feels too weird playing a gender different to their own (Not sure how many of those there are, either, but probably not that many) isn't going to play games with a lead of the other gender anyway, I'd guess.

Gitb97
11th Apr 2013, 17:04
Using my phone so lotsa typos :(
Lara being in a relationship or having a love interest to me is irrelevent but having a male charactrr eho Lara may become attatched to in some way and have a twist about him or something wpuldnt be that bad.

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 18:16
I think that's a bizarre fantasy created by people in the industry, honestly. I've never seen or heard any actual gamer say that.

What's weird to me is that after the enormous success of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect anyone might think it was a problem.

Any gamer who genuinely feels too weird playing a gender different to their own (Not sure how many of those there are, either, but probably not that many) isn't going to play games with a lead of the other gender anyway, I'd guess.

If you're a female gamer like me, you're going to get over playing as dudes kissing girls really quickly if you want to play about 90% of any games released.

Argaios
11th Apr 2013, 18:26
I'm male, but somehow it depends on the game for me. My Shepards are mostly male, but in Dragon Age or Oblivion most of my characters were female.

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 18:30
If I have a choice I pretty much always choose to be female in games. Mostly because there really aren't enough games that I have the opportunity to play as my own gender.

Elliot Kane
11th Apr 2013, 18:30
If you're a female gamer like me, you're going to get over playing as dudes kissing girls really quickly if you want to play about 90% of any games released.

Absolutely, JRod. I think it's incredibly patronising of the industry to assume that guys either can't or won't do the same.

I can only speak for myself, but I like to think most gamers would agree that it doesn't matter if you're playing a guy or a girl as long as the game is good.

AdobeArtist
11th Apr 2013, 18:35
If you're a female gamer like me, you're going to get over playing as dudes kissing girls really quickly if you want to play about 90% of any games released.

In RPGs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I go both ways ;)

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 18:37
Absolutely, JRod. I think it's incredibly patronising of the industry to assume that guys either can't or won't do the same.

I can only speak for myself, but I like to think most gamers would agree that it doesn't matter if you're playing a guy or a girl as long as the game is good.

I would hope so. If not, then we aren't going to see a change in the predominance of white, buff, stubbly male protagonists for a very long time. Which is sad because this industry has so much room for diversity.

@ adobe, I pretty much stuck with LiaraxFemshep but I couldn't figure out who I liked best for Dragon Age. The character are all so different from each other.

meimeiriver
11th Apr 2013, 18:40
In RPGs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I go both ways ;)

Me too, but I'm cheating a bit: when I play straight male Shepard I get the girl; when I play gay femshep... I get the girl too. :D So I guess that doesn't really count.

However, Femshep, ftw! And all hail Jennifer Hale! :worship:

Elliot Kane
11th Apr 2013, 18:43
In RPGs like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I go both ways ;)

As do I. I don't actually have a preference in terms of the gender I prefer to play. If I have a good character idea, I create the character and that's that. In games where the gender is set, I'm just as happy with Cate Archer or Lara Croft as I am with Geralt of Rivia or George Stobart.


I would hope so. If not, then we aren't going to see a change in the predominance of white, buff, stubbly male protagonists for a very long time. Which is sad because this industry has so much room for diversity.

Completely agree. So much potential for great stories is being completely ignored with the current approach. The industry can and should do better.

meimeiriver
11th Apr 2013, 19:03
Lara needs a young, handsome, male love interest in a, caring, supportive, 'rescue me' role in the next game just to troll all those creepily possessive TR fans that don't want her to have a romance option so that they mentally appropriate her for themselves.

Well, "mentally appropriate her for themselves" is adding a bit of a negative slant on what we'd normally simply call 'role-playing.' I think ambiguity surrounding Lara's romantic relationships would help people identify with her more strongly.

Having said that, I now really want her to be with Sam. Yes, perhaps less ideal for the neutrality of role-playing, but I've come to believe Lara & Sam would simply be good for each other: so much mutual caring and nurturing between them, growing into an ever closer bond, that I feel taking away from that is taking away from love itself.

AdobeArtist
11th Apr 2013, 19:13
@ adobe, I pretty much stuck with LiaraxFemshep but I couldn't figure out who I liked best for Dragon Age. The character are all so different from each other.

I had

a MaleShep romance with Ashley
a MaleShep romance with Liara
a MaleShep who romanced Liara first, then Tali
2 different Femshep romances with Kaiden (different classes)

And after finishing Tomb Raider, I decided to create a new ME game (currently in the middle of ME2) where my FemShep romances Liara (will stay Loyal to her), takes Ashley as the survivor (the only play through where a FemShep takes the female squad member across the trilogy) and sacrificed the Council in ME1.




However, Femshep, ftw! And all hail Jennifer Hale! :worship:

Here here!!!!

http://www.thegirlsguidetobeer.com/Portals/100483/images/beer-cheers-toasting.jpg

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 19:25
I had

a MaleShep romance with Ashley
a MaleShep romance with Liara
a MaleShep who romanced Liara first, then Tali
2 different Femshep romances with Kaiden (different classes)

And after finishing Tomb Raider, I decided to create a new ME game (currently in the middle of ME2) where my FemShep romances Liara (will stay Loyal to her), takes Ashley as the survivor (the only play through where a FemShep takes the female squad member across the trilogy) and sacrificed the Council in ME1.

I could never get into BroShep. Mark Meer's voice just gets on my nerves too much to get through multiple games with him, so that's are very large reason as to why I don't play as male in Mass Effect. Other people love him, but he's just not my cup of tea.

I'm such a goody-goody in ME. I always leave the Council alive lol. Well, maybe not that good. My canon Femshep was a Sole Survivor and thus reacts very negatively when people threaten her person or team. But other than that, she's pretty good. I can't get through I largely Renegade playthrough. It makes me feel so bad for the NPCs. :lol:

Wild
11th Apr 2013, 19:34
Having said that, I now really want her to be with Sam. Yes, perhaps less ideal for the neutrality of role-playing, but I've come to believe Lara & Sam would simply be good for each other: so much mutual caring and nurturing between them, growing into an ever closer bond, that I feel taking away from that is taking away from love itself.

:thumb:

Kipp
11th Apr 2013, 19:37
I could never get into BroShep. Mark Meer's voice just gets on my nerves too much to get through multiple games with him, so that's are very large reason as to why I don't play as male in Mass Effect. Other people love him, but he's just not my cup of tea.

I'm such a goody-goody in ME. I always leave the Council alive lol. Well, maybe not that good. My canon Femshep was a Sole Survivor and thus reacts very negatively when people threaten her person or team. But other than that, she's pretty good. I can't get through I largely Renegade playthrough. It makes me feel so bad for the NPCs. :lol:

I'm the same way. Nothing wrong with liking Broshep, but his voice wasn't for me. :p

I also always had Paragon maxed out. I'm like this with all games that give you such options. I know NPCs are just uh... NPCs, but I always feel so bad lol.

AdobeArtist
11th Apr 2013, 19:44
I could never get into BroShep. Mark Meer's voice just gets on my nerves too much to get through multiple games with him, so that's are very large reason as to why I don't play as male in Mass Effect. Other people love him, but he's just not my cup of tea.

I'm such a goody-goody in ME. I always leave the Council alive lol. Well, maybe not that good. My canon Femshep was a Sole Survivor and thus reacts very negatively when people threaten her person or team. But other than that, she's pretty good. I can't get through I largely Renegade playthrough. It makes me feel so bad for the NPCs. :lol:

I'm also typically a Paragon player, but of course I've tried out a Renegade play through just to see what it's like. Sometimes pick renegade dialog choices because a given character is a real prick and it feels damn good to tell them off :o But I see renegade dialog as fairly harmless compared to action choices.

I would say the moral drama with the most impact is in ME1, Bring Down the Sky DLC, where you have to stop the asteroid from colliding with the planet below. It's that moment you catch up with the Batarian terrorist leader, only he's holding the staff hostage with a bomb.

After what I went through to get that far, I reaaaaally didn't want Balak to get away. It was just too hard to accept that kind of defeat. I figured with a high enough paragon or renegade score, I'd be presented with an option to somehow capture the terrorist and save the hostages.

But nope, the game actually forced you choose from a genuine ethical dilemma. It had to be one or the other and you couldn't have this total victory. Of course the first time I let him go for the sake of the hostages. The other time when I tried to take him down (figuring I might still get a chance to disarm the bomb) and you hear that explosion. The price you paid for your "win" in defeating the terrorist carries such a terrible reality.

Never before had a game given the consequence of my action such a sense of genuine responsibility to my decision. The morality had tangible weight to it.

pomeranianpuppy
11th Apr 2013, 19:49
This mass effect is intriguing me I must play it

AdobeArtist
11th Apr 2013, 19:53
This mass effect is intriguing me I must play it

You... you haven't???? :eek::eek:

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 19:56
:eek: The first and second ones are great. The third is debatable.

As for BDtS, I always chose to save the hostages. I felt bad if I didn't.

pomeranianpuppy
11th Apr 2013, 20:03
You... you haven't???? :eek::eek:

:em: no and i'm a fan of Yvonne Strahovski so I really need to.
I hope she's in it alot

Elliot Kane
11th Apr 2013, 20:05
You... you haven't???? :eek::eek:

I haven't either. On the PC version, the DRM is abusive from first to last.

A shame. I'd have been all over it, else.

AdobeArtist
11th Apr 2013, 20:14
:em: no and i'm a fan of Yvonne Strahovski so I really need to.
I hope she's in it alot

Yvonne only comes into the story in the second game, and in the third her appearances (Miranda) are mainly as cameos. But with the latest DLC "Citadel" all characters from all the previous installments are available as a joinable squad mate on the mission, provided they survived.

Even though your crush only makes her entrance in ME2, I still highly recommend starting with ME1. You will have to suffer through performance issues (frame rate, loading lags as environmental areas stream in) but it will allow you to shape the choices that carry across the trilogy, and overall make for a more cohesive experience.

I actually had a single play through in ME2, just creating a new character to start in there to see how much difference there would be. And let me tell you, the gaps are HUGE. There is a great deal of missing content and story missions if you don't import from ME1.

I would have thought these events could occur, just that the player would simply miss the context, lacking the frame of reference. But nope, many possible encounters won't happen at all if you don't import from the previous game, which determines all those NPC situations.

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 20:21
Personally, I like the first game the best. I just loved the heating mechanic and was terribly disappointed that Bioware scrapped it entirely rather than fixed it like any good, non-lazy developer would do.

That and you could be a biotic god in that game. It's soooo awesome.

pomeranianpuppy
11th Apr 2013, 20:25
Yvonne only comes into the story in the second game, and in the third her appearances (Miranda) are mainly as cameos. But with the latest DLC "Citadel" all characters from all the previous installments are available as a joinable squad mate on the mission, provided they survived.

Even though your crush only makes her entrance in ME2, I still highly recommend starting with ME1. You will have to suffer through performance issues (frame rate, loading lags as environmental areas stream in) but it will allow you to shape the choices that carry across the trilogy, and overall make for a more cohesive experience.

I actually had a single play through in ME2, just creating a new character to start in there to see how much difference there would be. And let me tell you, the gaps are HUGE. There is a great deal of missing content and story missions if you don't import from ME1.

I would have thought these events could occur, just that the player would simply miss the context, lacking the frame of reference. But nope, many possible encounters won't happen at all if you don't import from the previous game, which determines all those NPC situations.

Thanks for the tips I'm off to ebay to nab em all :thumb:

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 20:26
Be a biotic. It's awesome. :D

Wild
11th Apr 2013, 20:28
Be a biotic. It's awesome. :D

xInfinity. Biotics rule.

meimeiriver
11th Apr 2013, 21:00
I also always had Paragon maxed out. I'm like this with all games that give you such options. I know NPCs are just uh... NPCs, but I always feel so bad lol.

Hehe, I'm exactly that way! :) I'm 100% Paragon. I even chose to play Femshep, largely for that reason. (Naturally, Jennifer Hale having the bestest voice, ever, didn't exactly hurt either. :p) Now, *hand to God*, I'm not feminite in RL at all, but with Femshep I felt I could really bring home what it means to be Paragon.

Yep, I saved the Council, and tried to be a 'good girl' in every other way possible (not that a woman can, or should, only be the 'good girl', but Paragon is simply what I felt most comfortable with). And I got so emotionally involved with it, I even cried for a moment during the "I Remember Me" mission, trying to save that poor Talitha girl. It's really *that* immersive! And sometimes, honestly, I regret Tomb Raider can't be role-played to that degree.

Actually made some fanart about it once. I was *that* involved:

Paragon (https://www.dropbox.com/s/p8jb2vb3r6qztyn/paragon.jpg?m)


As for BDtS, I always chose to save the hostages.

Nope, this is the one-and-only time, ever, I took the Renegade road, and blew that scumbag's f**king head right off. Maybe's it's a male thingy, I dunno, but it just had to come off. :)

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 21:09
:eek: But the 'sloded peeps! :( Lol, seriously though the only time my Femshep goes for a Renegade option is when people are putting guns in her face and it's not for a good reason.

meimeiriver
11th Apr 2013, 21:56
:eek: But the 'sloded peeps! :(

I briefly just conveniently reduced the 'sloded peeps' to merely being the NPC's that they really are. But that man just *had* to be pushed (blown, rather) out of existence, is all. :whistle:

JRod108
11th Apr 2013, 22:10
I connect too much with NPCs. I think about their poor, pixel, virtual families that will never see them again because you made them explode. :p

The only game in which I have successfully ever completed and evil run was Kotor 1. In which all of the NPCs were so... exaggerated that what came out from a Dark Side choice was usually highly amusing due to over acting rather than making me sad.

Metalrocks
12th Apr 2013, 14:20
in ME i played as femsheps and one maleshep and with both i still ended up with liara as my favorite partner. sure i have romanced others when i played it several times but liara was for me the best choice.

in TR just think lara would be better if she had someone. since CD cares so much to make her human, its just natural that she has someone she actually cares for. as my sig clearly shows, lara and sam should be together. i can actually see them as a couple. they really care for each other so its ,in my view, obvious that they will stick together and not just go separate ways.

AdobeArtist
12th Apr 2013, 16:12
Heyyyyy Metalrocks, where did ya get that illustration? Particularly the one shared between your sig and avatar? :)

Metalrocks
12th Apr 2013, 17:02
Heyyyyy Metalrocks, where did ya get that illustration? Particularly the one shared between your sig and avatar? :)

google :D
just enter lara croft and sam in to the search field.

meimeiriver
12th Apr 2013, 17:21
google :D
just enter lara croft and sam in to the search field.

Not to be a meanie here, as I love the sig to death, but did you ask psyduck-mcgee for permission to use his work (http://psyduck-mcgee.deviantart.com/art/Let-s-get-you-home-362176684)? Not saying you didn't, but DA artists generally want a say in who is using their work. :)

Metalrocks
12th Apr 2013, 17:38
Not to be a meanie here, as I love the sig to death, but did you ask psyduck-mcgee for permission to use his work (http://psyduck-mcgee.deviantart.com/art/Let-s-get-you-home-362176684)? Not saying you didn't, but DA artists generally want a say in who is using their work. :)

im not claiming that these pics are mine ;) and maybe he/she doesnt mind if i use it for this purpose.

AdobeArtist
12th Apr 2013, 17:38
I also wanted to say Metal, I agree with your position of how a relationship provides so much more opportunity for Lara's character development and progressing her along human growth.

Though I'm probably a bit more old fashioned and would prefer to see her hook up with a guy :o

Metalrocks
12th Apr 2013, 17:57
I also wanted to say Metal, I agree with your position of how a relationship provides so much more opportunity for Lara's character development and progressing her along human growth.

Though I'm probably a bit more old fashioned and would prefer to see her hook up with a guy :o

no probs with me. :) if CD wants her to have a boyfriend, i can accept it as well.
i would not say old fashioned. thats clearly a taste thing. i have no problem 2 girls being with each other. it generally never bothered me.

Jurre
12th Apr 2013, 18:06
I also wanted to say Metal, I agree with your position of how a relationship provides so much more opportunity for Lara's character development and progressing her along human growth.

Agreed, but don't you also agree that that relationship has to somehow be implemented into the plot of the game's story, rather than to be tagged on? Otherwise I think it would feel like it's shoehorned into the game...

Wild
12th Apr 2013, 18:48
Though I'm probably a bit more old fashioned and would prefer to see her hook up with a guy :o

Heh, nothing wrong with that. Just like how I want Lara to be with a girl.. ;)
But think about it, how often do we see same sex relationships in games? (RPG don't count)... It would've been so refreshing to see this kind of relationship in a game and since Tomb Raider absolutely has the potential for this, would've been good to see Lara finally with a girl and later with a guy, etc so nobody would be disappointed. :D
Tomb Raider can easily be the first kind of game that has a same sex relationship, a nice step for the new generation.

But if CD can't do this, i'd say then, that the best they could do is making Lara a 'free bird', as she always was. :)


Also, wish we had this option as Metalrocks says, but sadly, Tomb Raider is not a RPG game. There are no options. :(

AdobeArtist
12th Apr 2013, 18:54
Agreed, but don't you also agree that that relationship has to somehow be implemented into the plot of the game's story, rather than to be tagged on? Otherwise I think it would feel like it's shoehorned into the game...

What do you mean implemented into the plot of the games story? That part of the gameplay itself is Lara going out on the town with her boyfriend (or girlfriend), where the level design and interaction is to take a stroll, hold hands, eat at a restaurant, cuddle on the couch while watching a blu ray at home?

I'm sure I'm misreading your post, or at least hope I am, lol :o

As far as I'm concerned, all it takes is a few moments in cinematics, same as with any other scripted interaction Lara has with her friends and crew mates. Those scenes that define her relationship to them, and thus Lara's own character in the type of attitude she has towards other people.

It's all about establishing background to the character we play as an avatar. As with any medium including books and film/TV, it's the moments in between the action that really speaks volumes about the character and provides insight into what lies beneath the surface. That's what truly makes us connect with them, and therefore care about what happens to them both during the action and those in between moments of introspection or socialization.

Weemanply109
12th Apr 2013, 18:58
What do you mean implemented into the plot of the games story? That part of the gameplay itself is Lara going out on the town with her boyfriend (or girlfriend), where the level design and interaction is to take a stroll, hold hands, eat at a restaurant, cuddle on the couch while watching a blu ray at home?

:lol:

I wonder why they'd do with the sequel after that game? ;)

AdobeArtist
12th Apr 2013, 19:10
:lol:

I wonder why they'd do with the sequel after that game? ;)

Tomb Raider: Honeymoon Adventures ?? :naughty::naughty:

Jurre
12th Apr 2013, 19:13
Well for example, Lara's friendship with the other Endurance crewmembers had a function in the story: they were in danger because of Lara suggesting to go to the Dragons Triangle and she felt responsible for them getting in trouble. She therefore committed herself to get them to safety.

Without this premise there probably wouldn't be need for such a large number of secondary characters. Sure Roth and Sam would still be there but I think Alex, Reyes and Jonah would probably be totaly useless to the story and better left out...

What you say about character building is totaly true, but at the same time a story needs to be streamlined: in TR2013 we don't learn about Lara's favourite colour or what her perfect sunday looks like because it that doesn't matter to this perticular story. A bit extreme examples of course but I guess you'll know what I mean... Basicly everything we learn about Lara in Sam's videos is about her relationship with her friends and that influences her decisions later when they are in danger...

So I think Lara having a relationship in a game would be preferable if it means something to the premise and/or plot of the game. It can give lots of suggestions, but it doens't really matter how that would be accomplished...

Metalrocks
13th Apr 2013, 10:53
Also, wish we had this option as Metalrocks says, but sadly, Tomb Raider is not a RPG game. There are no options. :(

spec ops the line isnt a RPG either and we have 4 different endings. ;)
so it is possible.

Wild
13th Apr 2013, 12:05
spec ops the line isnt a RPG either and we have 4 different endings. ;)
so it is possible.

Well then, from your keyboard to dev's eyes. :D

DrCroft
13th Apr 2013, 12:52
I think if anyone suggested anything like this thirteen years ago I think we would have had medipack chucked at us :p before being told to not be stupid, go measure up that jump.

Amazing how time changes things :D

Driber
13th Apr 2013, 13:22
I think if anyone suggested anything like this thirteen years ago I think we would have had medipack chucked at us :p before being told to not be stupid, go measure up that jump.

Amazing how time changes things :D

You think fans weren't speculating about Lara's love life during the days of the classic games?

*cough* AoD *cough*

italibabee
13th Apr 2013, 13:31
Alex didn't die and he's going to be Lara's boyfriend in the next game.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif

DrCroft
13th Apr 2013, 13:32
You think fans weren't speculating about Lara's love life during the days of the classic games?

*cough* AoD *cough*

Thirteen years ago was chronicle times, poor little Kurtis hadn't sashayed into our lives yet :D



Alex didn't die and he's going to be Lara's boyfriend in the next game.
http://www.tombraiderforums.com/images/smilies/privateeye.gif

The trinity bring him back and sends him after Lara, freaking her out after a. she though he'd died b. He actually managed to get off Yamatai without everyone else and c. she only gave him a peck on the cheek after that journal entry. He wins her trust and then the trinity infiltrates his mind, then he's after Lara to kill her. Shhh you didn't hear it from me :cool:


:D

Driber
13th Apr 2013, 13:37
Thirteen years ago was chronicle times, poor little Kurtis hadn't sashayed into our lives yet :D

13 years ago, 10 years ago...big difference :p

Though now you got me wondering what a kid version of Kurtis would look like.... :D

DrCroft
13th Apr 2013, 13:39
Oh Driber you spoiled my argument :p Nevermind, back on topic :D

Driber
13th Apr 2013, 14:17
Sorry :o

I can still chuck a medipack at you, if you want :D

Or you at me :D

Metalrocks
13th Apr 2013, 14:55
Well then, from your keyboard to dev's eyes. :D

lol. i think i have already. since some of them do check the forum, and especially our lovely meagan, it is the possibility that it might be considered.
obviously the wishlist we had for this title was an indicator to them what we want more or less.