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View Full Version : A "strange" thought hit me about Joker...



Joseph Kerstein
14th Dec 2010, 08:07
Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

airblitz7
14th Dec 2010, 10:26
Joker isn't the type of person that can be interrogated that easily. Heck, if I were to empathize with Hugo Strange, I wouldn't trust Joker's word anyway. He may have been tortured and drugged; but I highly doubt he is the cause of the divulgence of Batman's identity.

Seriously, if he actually knew, but didn't care, wouldn't he tell anyone who asks? Remember, this is the joker we're talking about. He'll think it to be fun to let Hugo Strange know his identity, so thats an option, but interrogated? I highly doubt it.

gazzilla8000
14th Dec 2010, 11:29
Its a credible theory, but I can't see the writers straight up admitting the Joker knows Batman's identity.

FearGasVictim09
14th Dec 2010, 12:30
I had a quite similar theory in my mind when I saw the new trailer and what strange did to the tyga-captain.
what if strange just wanted to get information out of the joker and interrogated him for that? informations about batman, without believing that the joker knows batmans identitiy. maybe strange even thought the joker would know it, but he didn't, so he let joker free.
I think joker's illness could have something to do with hugo strange being in arkham city.

-The_Legend-
14th Dec 2010, 13:21
I don't belive the Joker knows how Batman really is. Remember when you walk into the building and the camera switches to 1st person mode (the name of the building escapes me at the moment), the first time you go in there he asks you a question. He says "Lets start with the big one. Who is that behind the mask? Why do you feel the need to go out in the world and stop people like me?" Unless Joker is playing around I don't believe he knows at this time.

Scarecrow007
14th Dec 2010, 13:38
I don't belive the Joker knows how Batman really is. Remember when you walk into the building and the camera switches to 1st person mode (the name of the building escapes me at the moment), the first time you go in there he asks you a question. He says "Lets start with the big one. Who is that behind the mask? Why do you feel the need to go out in the world and stop people like me?" Unless Joker is playing around I don't believe he knows at this time.

Well there is a time gap between Arkham Asylum and Arkham City...maybe something happened during that gap.

kadashi666
14th Dec 2010, 14:14
*looks at title of thread* Ahhhhh, i see what ya did there. ^_^

thejokethatkills
14th Dec 2010, 15:13
The thing with the Joker is even he did know who Batman is he would never tell anyone else. The reason why is that he believes that he and he alone should have the right to know who Batman is. He has been his arch enemy for years and there has been no other villain more hell bent on fighting Batman; to the Joker, Batman is his straight man who he needs to make his acts of violence have a punchline. Joker does not believe any other villain has the right to know.

As for Hugo Strange torturing the Joker, I really like that idea, but I think that perhaps Joker collaborated with Strange to perform experiments on him. We all know there is at least one case of titan left out there, perhaps Strange got a hold of it and is trying to perfect it even further or use several compounds from within in it to create a more dangerous substance. Maby that's why he's been testing Batman, to know his exact movements to make something formidable enough to take him down. In the magazine a few months back it said that Catwoman said Joker is working with Strange so I think Joker allowed himself to test an experiment out, it went horribly wrong, and now he is slowly dying.

rjh094
14th Dec 2010, 15:48
the Joker knowing Batman's identity is bit of a stretch. So i doubt it.

The Bat
14th Dec 2010, 16:22
I think there is going to be two separate stories in the game, with Joker and Two Face's rivalries that focus on gaining control of Arkham City or something like that THEN there is Hugo Strange who has has his own plans for Batman. Just my opinion.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
14th Dec 2010, 18:10
Im 100% sure Joker knows it but like you said he doesnt care. I bet Joker is so happy that there is a Arkham City that he would tell Strange as like a thank you or somthing.

Joseph Kerstein
14th Dec 2010, 18:16
Joker isn't the type of person that can be interrogated that easily. Heck, if I were to empathize with Hugo Strange, I wouldn't trust Joker's word anyway. He may have been tortured and drugged; but I highly doubt he is the cause of the divulgence of Batman's identity.

Seriously, if he actually knew, but didn't care, wouldn't he tell anyone who asks? Remember, this is the joker we're talking about. He'll think it to be fun to let Hugo Strange know his identity, so thats an option, but interrogated? I highly doubt it.

My dear lad, being that Joker is my top favorite villain of all time I know him quite well. I know his thought processes. I know how he wears his flippin underwear. I know he can be an incredibly tough egg to crack and I never intended for my post to come off as thinking he was going to break easily, if break at all, but a good enough amount of drugs can do a lot to a person and make them blab. Fact is that he has been forced into doing things he never wanted to do even in the comics, though it always took extreme measures. Someone like Hugo Strange would indeed go as far as he could to gain info.

I don't believe he'd tell anyone. Ever. Batman to him is just Batman. Whoever is behind the mask may or may not be important to him. He has.... issues.... with those that wear tights like his and parade around either as his side-kick or stand-in. Recall in "Return of The Joker" where he calls Terry's Batman a "Batfake"? If one person knew who Batman was, then in due time everyone under the sun would know and Bruce Wayne would be in serious danger. If Bruce Wayne dies, so too does Batman, and _no one_ has the right to actually succeed at snuffing out the Bat. Sure, Joker sends millions of thugs and even allows villains to throw Batsy around, but to Joker that's just a silly game they're playing. He thinks... no... he KNOWS Batman won't die because he's just that good.


Glad I got some people discussing it. It's a "plausible" theory and even I doubt it, but it got my mind thinking about all the possible explanations for Strange's knowledge of Batman's identity, Joker's ill conditions, and then some.

FearGasVictim09
14th Dec 2010, 19:50
The thing with the Joker is even he did know who Batman is he would never tell anyone else. The reason why is that he believes that he and he alone should have the right to know who Batman is. He has been his arch enemy for years and there has been no other villain more hell bent on fighting Batman; to the Joker, Batman is his straight man who he needs to make his acts of violence have a punchline. Joker does not believe any other villain has the right to know.

As for Hugo Strange torturing the Joker, I really like that idea, but I think that perhaps Joker collaborated with Strange to perform experiments on him. We all know there is at least one case of titan left out there, perhaps Strange got a hold of it and is trying to perfect it even further or use several compounds from within in it to create a more dangerous substance. Maby that's why he's been testing Batman, to know his exact movements to make something formidable enough to take him down. In the magazine a few months back it said that Catwoman said Joker is working with Strange so I think Joker allowed himself to test an experiment out, it went horribly wrong, and now he is slowly dying.


yeah I just remembered that article too and I think your theory sounds very plausible. it would be fitting if strange is the reason for joker's physical condition.
I really like the way the story seems to be built so far.
with this joker/strange backstory overshadowing the whole situation of gang wars and the fight for 'the crown of arkham city'.
very cool idea to mix it all up. :thumb:

BigBoss
14th Dec 2010, 21:08
So pretty much.......we don't know anything

martian1127
14th Dec 2010, 21:11
Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

Well there are a lot of flaws with an idea like that. When we saw Joker in the first trailer, there was an explosion outside and Harley Quin kissed him on the cheek. Also, he was laughing his guts out, so he was happy about something. If Hugo tortured Joker and gained info, against Joker's will, Joker would not be to happy about that. One could say that Joker and his team managed to corrupt Hugo's plans, which then would explain why he was laughing in the trailer. Joker, however does not know who Batman is. He even asked Batman during a segment in the visiting center. One of his funny questions was "Who is it behind the mask"

As for Oracle, I could see that being the reason why Hugo knows Batman's identity. But, the only way for Hugo to find out where Oracle is, is if someone told him. The only person that would know is Riddler. Remember in the first game, how he hacked the batman commutation signal? Some how he could have gotten enough information and traced it back to the source. As soon as you find all the Riddler clues, he gets arrested. Arkham City takes place a year after the events from the first game, so Riddler has probably escaped from jail by then. Riddler, could have easily offered his information to Hugo Strange for a small price. That price could have been money or a seat on the party list.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
14th Dec 2010, 22:44
Remember that the Warden does have chemeicals similart to titan that makes people like zombies

martian1127
15th Dec 2010, 04:09
Remember that the Warden does have chemeicals similart to titan that makes people like zombies

Yes I do. Hugo Strange experimented with this in a hospital that he owned in the Batman detective comics. Hugo Strange has a wide variety of things he has done. He even did something similar to fear toxin. But his most handy work comes from turning people into hulking zombies and using a concentrated lightning machine to create dense fog. Hmm, I wonder if Hugo Strange owns Gotham General Hospital? We saw this on Joker's suction bag on his wheel chair. It is possible that Joker could be recovering from these symptom.

Wait a minute. That makes perfect sense. In the comics Strange owned a private hospital for Gotham's wealthy citizens. During the series, Bruce Wayne checks into the hospital, having recovered from radiation burns from a battle with Doctor Phosphorus. Strange, manages to find out who Batman is. Who decides to auction this information to villains like Penguin, Joker, and Rupert Thorne. Rupert Throne however orders to have Stange beaten up in order to reveal the information and Strange dies; but some how comes back to life to haunt Thorne.

Could this be a semi-plot for Hugo Strange. Other than dying, Strange find out who Batman is when Wayne checks into Gotham General? Could Joker have also been a subject to Hugo's zombie experiments? If so, how did he manage to recover?

thejokethatkills
15th Dec 2010, 05:04
Yes I do. Hugo Strange experimented with this in a hospital that he owned in the Batman detective comics. Hugo Strange has a wide variety of things he has done. He even did something similar to fear toxin. But his most handy work comes from turning people into hulking zombies and using a concentrated lightning machine to create dense fog. Hmm, I wonder if Hugo Strange owns Gotham General Hospital? We saw this on Joker's suction bag on his wheel chair. It is possible that Joker could be recovering from these symptom.

Wait a minute. That makes perfect sense. In the comics Strange owned a private hospital for Gotham's wealthy citizens. During the series, Bruce Wayne checks into the hospital, having recovered from radiation burns from a battle with Doctor Phosphorus. Strange, manages to find out who Batman is. Who decides to auction this information to villains like Penguin, Joker, and Rupert Thorne. Rupert Throne however orders to have Stange beaten up in order to reveal the information and Strange dies; but some how comes back to life to haunt Thorne.

Could this be a semi-plot for Hugo Strange. Other than dying, Strange find out who Batman is when Wayne checks into Gotham General? Could Joker have also been a subject to Hugo's zombie experiments? If so, how did he manage to recover?

That's a good idea, but I think that branches a little too off territory for the AA/AC universe. Yeah, they had people turn into monsters, but to have people dying and then coming back would be a little too bizarre and out of style for this type of atmosphere. Then again this is only my opinion, so who knows?

Joseph Kerstein
15th Dec 2010, 05:55
That's a good idea, but I think that branches a little too off territory for the AA/AC universe. Yeah, they had people turn into monsters, but to have people dying and then coming back would be a little too bizarre and out of style for this type of atmosphere. Then again this is only my opinion, so who knows?

Before it was fully solved, the whole "Spirit of Arkham" thing was really awesome. I loved that ghostly feeling it gave off. A lot of the first game had that creepy, almost horror movie feel to it. Between the spirit of Arkham, Scarecrow, the graveyard, and the looneys that Joker sprung, it had a very creepy atmosphere. A real ghost appearing, if only one, wouldn't seem all that out of place in AC.

At least not in my opinion.

HA_laughingfish_HA
15th Dec 2010, 08:00
I still get the vibe that Joker and Hugo hate each other tons. It makes sense honestly:
Hugo knows who Batman is; therefore, Joker hates him because he's a threat to ruin all of Joker's "fun" by spilling the beans. On the other side of this Hugo would hate Joker for all of his troublesome chaos and discord in Arkham City. Hugo is absolutely obsessesed with Batman and through the trailer we have seen the lengths he is willing to go through to study/decode him. Problem here being, who knows Batman almost better than Batman himself? Joker. I'm sure Hugo will have had multiple sessions with Uncle J probably to no avail which only fuels his madness. Joker does like to screw with people :)
All of this comes down to the fact that it might be as simple as Hugo tried to kill Joker with poison out of anger and yet he survived, but for how long? dun dun dunnnnnn

Joseph Kerstein
15th Dec 2010, 08:30
I still get the vibe that Joker and Hugo hate each other tons. It makes sense honestly:
Hugo knows who Batman is; therefore, Joker hates him because he's a threat to ruin all of Joker's "fun" by spilling the beans. On the other side of this Hugo would hate Joker for all of his troublesome chaos and discord in Arkham City. Hugo is absolutely obsessesed with Batman and through the trailer we have seen the lengths he is willing to go through to study/decode him. Problem here being, who knows Batman almost better than Batman himself? Joker. I'm sure Hugo will have had multiple sessions with Uncle J probably to no avail which only fuels his madness. Joker does like to screw with people :)
All of this comes down to the fact that it might be as simple as Hugo tried to kill Joker with poison out of anger and yet he survived, but for how long? dun dun dunnnnnn

Imagine if we have a mission to save Joker's life? Now that'd be interesting. Oh boy, I'd love to hear all the chatter Joker would give Batman if that were the case. It's happened before in the comics, so why not here?

Clayface
15th Dec 2010, 17:52
Well I was just pondering over everything and thought I would throw my suggestion in;

Strange mentions he is 'testing' Batman - could this be to do with Batman resisting Titan? Perhaps Strange is attempting to make intelligent Titan monsters. Although I'd be a bit dissapointed if this was the case. He does mention that 'soon we will be strong enough' to beat Batman.

Ah well who knows - it's all just speculation!

martian1127
15th Dec 2010, 21:05
Well I was just pondering over everything and thought I would throw my suggestion in;

Strange mentions he is 'testing' Batman - could this be to do with Batman resisting Titan? Perhaps Strange is attempting to make intelligent Titan monsters. Although I'd be a bit dissapointed if this was the case. He does mention that 'soon we will be strong enough' to beat Batman.

Ah well who knows - it's all just speculation!

I was also paying close attention to Strange's words. If he is testing Batman, then the story is going to be interested. It's probably a simple implied message. "How far is Batman willing to go, in order to save Oracle or Catwoman? Talia Al Ghul, must play a huge part in this.

Here is my speculation. Ras, Talia and Hugo Strange are all trying to crack Batman. They do this by kidnapping two people that he cares about the most. Those two people are Catwoman and Oracle. In the mix, Joker intervenes with Hugo's plans because Joker, would rather see Batman fall another way. In order to stop Hugo, Joker teams up with original villains, Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze and a few others to stop Hugo from exposing Batman's true identity. Batman plays the odds by allowing Joker & friends to cause an extensive amount of damage; hoping that in the aftermath Hugo Strange will die. But along the way, Joker & friends do their usual and threaten innocent lives and Batman must also play the odds and fight them.

What side will Batman choose? Will he choose to allow Joker to cause havoc; which means playing on his side. Or will he stop Joker's plans for killing Hugo, which then allows Hugo to expose Batman's true identity. It becomes a tough choice between Hugo and Joker. Here is a small script I have made for this idea.

Joker: Bat's, me and you have had good times and bad times. But never in my life would I let someone spill the beans on who you really are. The only one that pulls the string to that curtain, is me.

Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.

Joker: Well Bat's it all comes down to a matter of choice. My father always told me, "sometimes it's better to trust the bad guy that you know, rather than trusting the one that you don't know". And we both know that nobody loves you better than me.

Batman: Very touching, but I will not let my integrity run short. Even if it means, the whole world knowing who I am.

Joker: Have you gone mad? Hugo will expose you and your life would never be the same. Everything in your procession would be taken from you. Whoever it is you are, I can imagine that your loved ones would suffer even more than Oracle and Catwoman. Let those those two bite the dust; they both knew the risk. So what do you say, let me get a clean shot at Hugo. In the aftermath a few innocent people may die, but at least me and even more importantly YOU, would live to see another darkened day. But if you shut down my plans, both of us will get the city spotlight shined on us and our lives will be over. Use yoir brain, he wants to kill us both. For once, let good & evil unite and take down that which threatens our city.

Joker: Are you game or night?

The Caped Crusader
15th Dec 2010, 21:47
I was also paying close attention to Strange's words. If he is testing Batman, then the story is going to be interested. It's probably a simple implied message. "How far is Batman willing to go, in order to save Oracle or Catwoman? Talia Al Ghul, must play a huge part in this.

Here is my speculation. Ras, Talia and Hugo Strange are all trying to crack Batman. They do this by kidnapping two people that he cares about the most. Those two people are Catwoman and Oracle. In the mix, Joker intervenes with Hugo's plans because Joker, would rather see Batman fall another way. In order to stop Hugo, Joker teams up with original villains, Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze and a few others to stop Hugo from exposing Batman's true identity. Batman plays the odds by allowing Joker & friends to cause an extensive amount of damage; hoping that in the aftermath Hugo Strange will die. But along the way, Joker & friends do their usual and threaten innocent lives and Batman must also play the odds and fight them.

What side will Batman choose? Will he choose to allow Joker to cause havoc; which means playing on his side. Or will he stop Joker's plans for killing Hugo, which then allows Hugo to expose Batman's true identity. It becomes a tough choice between Hugo and Joker. Here is a small script I have made for this idea.

Joker: Bat's, me and you have had good times and bad times. But never in my life would I let someone spill the beans on who you really are. The only one that pulls the string to that curtain, is me.

Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.

Joker: Well Bat's it all comes down to a matter of choice. My father always told me, "sometimes it's better to trust the bad guy that you know, rather than trusting the one that you don't know". And we both know that nobody loves you better than me.

Batman: Very touching, but I will not let my integrity run short. Even if it means, the whole world knowing who I am.

Joker: Have you gone mad? Hugo will expose you and your life would never be the same. Everything in your procession would be taken from you. Whoever it is you are, I can imagine that your loved ones would suffer even more than Oracle and Catwoman. Let those those two bite the dust; they both knew the risk. So what do you say, let me get a clean shot at Hugo. In the aftermath a few innocent people may die, but at least me and even more importantly YOU, would live to see another darkened day. But if you shut down my plans, both of us will get the city spotlight shined on us and our lives will be over. Use yoir brain, he wants to kill us both. For once, let good & evil unite and take down that which threatens our city.

Joker: Are you game or night?

Nice, but Batman Doesn't really talk like that he would never say something like " i can see that" to the Joker.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
16th Dec 2010, 01:02
I think The league of assassians and the Tyger mercs will team up eventually

FearGasVictim09
16th Dec 2010, 09:38
I think The league of assassians and the Tyger mercs will team up eventually

wouldn't that be a little bit too much? I would like it more if ra's and/or talia would appear in the end and hint to a sequel where he can be the main villain or something like that.

The Batfan
16th Dec 2010, 13:55
I was also paying close attention to Strange's words. If he is testing Batman, then the story is going to be interested. It's probably a simple implied message. "How far is Batman willing to go, in order to save Oracle or Catwoman? Talia Al Ghul, must play a huge part in this.

Here is my speculation. Ras, Talia and Hugo Strange are all trying to crack Batman. They do this by kidnapping two people that he cares about the most. Those two people are Catwoman and Oracle. In the mix, Joker intervenes with Hugo's plans because Joker, would rather see Batman fall another way. In order to stop Hugo, Joker teams up with original villains, Penguin, Riddler, Mr. Freeze and a few others to stop Hugo from exposing Batman's true identity. Batman plays the odds by allowing Joker & friends to cause an extensive amount of damage; hoping that in the aftermath Hugo Strange will die. But along the way, Joker & friends do their usual and threaten innocent lives and Batman must also play the odds and fight them.

What side will Batman choose? Will he choose to allow Joker to cause havoc; which means playing on his side. Or will he stop Joker's plans for killing Hugo, which then allows Hugo to expose Batman's true identity. It becomes a tough choice between Hugo and Joker. Here is a small script I have made for this idea.

Joker: Bat's, me and you have had good times and bad times. But never in my life would I let someone spill the beans on who you really are. The only one that pulls the string to that curtain, is me.

Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.

Joker: Well Bat's it all comes down to a matter of choice. My father always told me, "sometimes it's better to trust the bad guy that you know, rather than trusting the one that you don't know". And we both know that nobody loves you better than me.

Batman: Very touching, but I will not let my integrity run short. Even if it means, the whole world knowing who I am.

Joker: Have you gone mad? Hugo will expose you and your life would never be the same. Everything in your procession would be taken from you. Whoever it is you are, I can imagine that your loved ones would suffer even more than Oracle and Catwoman. Let those those two bite the dust; they both knew the risk. So what do you say, let me get a clean shot at Hugo. In the aftermath a few innocent people may die, but at least me and even more importantly YOU, would live to see another darkened day. But if you shut down my plans, both of us will get the city spotlight shined on us and our lives will be over. Use yoir brain, he wants to kill us both. For once, let good & evil unite and take down that which threatens our city.

Joker: Are you game or night?



Your grammar sucks. What's going to happen when people like this run the world?

thejokethatkills
16th Dec 2010, 16:34
Your grammar sucks. What's going to happen when people like this run the world?

Take it easy, there's a way to criticize people in a polite fashion.

Matches Malone
16th Dec 2010, 16:45
Take it easy, there's a way to criticize people in a polite fashion.
Yeah, like this.


Batman: I can see that, but there are lives at steak and I can't just let you kill people.
MMM steak
http://www.steakmeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/steak.jpg

martian1127
16th Dec 2010, 16:52
Sorry if my grammar was not good. I was so excited to post my idea.

FearGasVictim09
16th Dec 2010, 17:44
this whole joker-batman-conversation is a bit weird, sorry^^ a bit too melodramatic if you ask me. ;)

Batman The Trailer Hunter
16th Dec 2010, 18:52
Well if there is co-op some one hhas to team up

FearGasVictim09
16th Dec 2010, 21:18
Well if there is co-op some one hhas to team up


we don't even know if the league of assassins is part of the game. and why would they have to team up with somebody just because there's co-op? :confused:
doesn't co-op mean that you are able to play the game with a friend? what do the villains have to do with that?

Joseph Kerstein
16th Dec 2010, 21:32
Well if there is co-op some one hhas to team up

Or, you know, there could just be a few more of the same type of bad guys to counter the co-op partner. The League of Assassins and Ra's deserve their own game if they're going to be actual opponents. Besides, that's way too much. We've got Two-Face, Joker, multiple other smaller villains and gangs, Strange and his Tyger goons. There's LOTS in all of that. The League and Ra's would be overkill and the story would lose both focus and impact.

Save them for a later installment.

FearGasVictim09
16th Dec 2010, 21:49
Or, you know, there could just be a few more of the same type of bad guys to counter the co-op partner. The League of Assassins and Ra's deserve their own game if they're going to be actual opponents. Besides, that's way too much. We've got Two-Face, Joker, multiple other smaller villains and gangs, Strange and his Tyger goons. There's LOTS in all of that. The League and Ra's would be overkill and the story would lose both focus and impact.

Save them for a later installment.


exactly my thoughts. we can't have all villains in one game...would ruin the experience and you aren't able to portray that many villains in an acceptable way without doing them wrong.

Matches Malone
16th Dec 2010, 21:54
Joseph is right, and Ra's isn't really a "Gotham Rogue" he usually takes Batman across the globe, or at least out of Gotham. Ra's isn't a good fit for this game, neither is his crime family.

A Dark Hunter
17th Dec 2010, 00:21
Just thought of something....Joker is immune to toxins and drugs...how did he get jacked up on Titan in the first place?

Joseph Kerstein
17th Dec 2010, 00:40
Just thought of something....Joker is immune to toxins and drugs...how did he get jacked up on Titan in the first place?

Maybe it's so much that it'll transform you anyway, but perhaps a possible reason for why he wasn't reduced to a complete grunting idiot? Then again, Batman resisted the change by force of will.......... I call plot convenience!

A Dark Hunter
17th Dec 2010, 00:42
I call plot convenience!

Exactly!

HA_laughingfish_HA
17th Dec 2010, 04:08
buuuuuuuuuuuuut Batman used the antidote

Joseph Kerstein
17th Dec 2010, 04:30
buuuuuuuuuuuuut Batman used the antidote

How many minutes AFTER being injected with Titan? Let's see... First he's shot, then his arm pulses like he's gonna start getting really super buff, he punches Joker, Joker has his rant, shoots himself with some Titan, gasps, turns into Julker, takes Batsy up to the roof, straps Gordon to an electric chair, has his little speech while admiring the press he's getting, kicks Batman around, picks him up, tells him that he should "give in and change" and THEN Batman injects himself with the antidote.

That's.... quite a long time compared to EVERYONE ELSE who turned into a monster immediately upon being injected with Titan. Joker even admits that Batman is resisting the change at least twice.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
17th Dec 2010, 04:49
How many minutes AFTER being injected with Titan? Let's see... First he's shot, then his arm pulses like he's gonna start getting really super buff, he punches Joker, Joker has his rant, shoots himself with some Titan, gasps, turns into Julker, takes Batsy up to the roof, straps Gordon to an electric chair, has his little speech while admiring the press he's getting, kicks Batman around, picks him up, tells him that he should "give in and change" and THEN Batman injects himself with the antidote.

That's.... quite a long time compared to EVERYONE ELSE who turned into a monster immediately upon being injected with Titan. Joker even admits that Batman is resisting the change at least twice.

eh that would be 5 minutes

Joseph Kerstein
17th Dec 2010, 04:51
eh that would be 5 minutes

Even still, not immediate and was resisted. By the way I'd put that as more like 10 minutes, but regardless my point stands. :rasp:

HA_laughingfish_HA
17th Dec 2010, 04:59
My point being that he didn't just completely resist it all together, he was obviously losing thus used the antidote on himself. Joker wanted it badly and took it in the face-ish so why would he resist? blah blah blah different formulas throughout the game blah blah blah everyone else wasn't Batman. The whole thing about Joker being immune to toxins is interesting me in regards to what he's sick with in AC.

Matches Malone
17th Dec 2010, 14:58
Not all incarnations of the Joker have complete immunities to toxins & drugs.

Joseph Kerstein
17th Dec 2010, 19:05
Not all incarnations of the Joker have complete immunities to toxins & drugs.

That's right. Heck, even once in the animated series Joker wore a helmet to protect himself from his own laughing gas, but in all other episodes he never had to...... :scratch:

HA_laughingfish_HA
18th Dec 2010, 08:51
That's right. Heck, even once in the animated series Joker wore a helmet to protect himself from his own laughing gas, but in all other episodes he never had to...... :scratch:

I thought that was because the garbage smelled so bad :o He's seen later in the episode without it, while Batman is still wearing his gas mask.. then again.. Captain Clown

The Comedian
18th Dec 2010, 09:01
Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

I dont think Joker would give in so easily, in one comic it took all of Martian Manhunters powers to make Joker sane for a brief period of time to pull information from him.

I think you're alot closer with Oracle being missing. The Clocktower probablly has all the information Strange would need on Batman.

Joseph Kerstein
18th Dec 2010, 09:18
I dont think Joker would give in so easily, in one comic it took all of Martian Manhunters powers to make Joker sane for a brief period of time to pull information from him.

I think you're alot closer with Oracle being missing. The Clocktower probablly has all the information Strange would need on Batman.

I have the scans of just that scene, so trust me, I know how tough he is. Let me just say that when I say "Strange drugs Joker" I don't mean once or twice, I mean to the point that it would be like how badly Bane looked in Arkham Asylum while drained, only like it happened a bunch of times over and over again.

However, I'm going to stick with the more plausible theory and say that Oracle is the link to this situation, and not Joker.... but now the question remains; what's wrong with Joker?

The Comedian
18th Dec 2010, 15:30
I have the scans of just that scene, so trust me, I know how tough he is. Let me just say that when I say "Strange drugs Joker" I don't mean once or twice, I mean to the point that it would be like how badly Bane looked in Arkham Asylum while drained, only like it happened a bunch of times over and over again.

However, I'm going to stick with the more plausible theory and say that Oracle is the link to this situation, and not Joker.... but now the question remains; what's wrong with Joker?

I think Joker is just having some Titan after effects.

Joseph Kerstein
18th Dec 2010, 20:37
I think Joker is just having some Titan after effects.

For over a year? Also, the magazines (and Rocksteady I think) said it had nothing to do with Titan....

mwkcope
26th Dec 2010, 19:04
For over a year? Also, the magazines (and Rocksteady I think) said it had nothing to do with Titan....

They said it might have nothin' to do with the Turn-Bane-into-an-idiot serum.

thedarknight2016
26th Dec 2010, 21:16
Sorry if my grammar was not good. I was so excited to post my idea.

Lol, Yea that happens, especially when your dealing with a game the scope and quality of Arkham City.:D

Websy
27th Dec 2010, 00:04
Somehow this is all the work of Damian Wayne.

May he die many painful deaths.

puppet627
27th Dec 2010, 03:27
I thought in the comics that the Joker didn't want to know who Batman was because it would ruin the whole everything? Something along those lines..

Also, to support Joseph Kerstein:
In the recent Batman and Robin comics (with Dick as Batman and Damian as Robin) the Joker stops committing crime and even helps out the Dynamic Duo, all because he believes his Batman is gone.

martian1127
6th Jan 2011, 22:53
It was always left open for readers to contemplate. Some people thought that Joker overlooked the possibility that Batman and Bruce Wayne were the same person. He never really had anything to draw the lines with. Batman and Bruce Wayne acted totally different from one another. When Bruce would put on the batsuit, his whole attitude and voice would change. One would think that Joker would have linked Wayne Enterprises to Batman and his gadgets, but I guess he overlooked it.

The same thing can be said about Batman's knowledge on Joker. Does Batman know Joker's name? I doubt he carries in ID on him. If so, he probably looks nothing like he did when he was a kid or teenager.

puppet627
7th Jan 2011, 00:46
I doubt Batman knows who the Joker is..
If he did know who he was he would use that information about him.

rjh094
7th Jan 2011, 01:10
isn't it kind of weird that the world's greatest detective hasn't found out joker's real identity by now? a simple blood test would've solved this.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
7th Jan 2011, 04:24
isn't it kind of weird that the world's greatest detective hasn't found out joker's real identity by now? a simple blood test would've solved this.

Remember in the Dark knight when they captured the joker? No one could I.D him.

Marcus
7th Jan 2011, 10:25
I doubt Batman knows who the Joker is..

I doubt that even the Joker knows know the Joker is!

thedarknight2016
7th Jan 2011, 13:05
isn't it kind of weird that the world's greatest detective hasn't found out joker's real identity by now? a simple blood test would've solved this.

What if he has never been to the hospital before, And he has destroyed all records of when he was conceived? He could also be born in another country. Improbable,but not impossible.

martian1127
7th Jan 2011, 14:42
It's very interesting to contemplate who the Joker is. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the comics talk about where he originated from. Was he a Gotham native? Was he from Bludhaven? As far as hospital records on him, I don't think he has been in a hospital long enough for the nurses to really ID him. Sometimes I want to think he is from another country and came here as a kid. So most of his records are from wherever he came from.

Batman probably wonders the same thing that Joker wonders. Who is he?

andries.alexandru
7th Jan 2011, 16:44
I think Joker know who is he. The big question for him is, and will be forever, who is Batman?!

Batman The Trailer Hunter
7th Jan 2011, 17:27
I dont think The Joker knows who he was anymore. i remember in one episode of The Batman joker had only 1 strand of memory of his original self but batman accidentally destroyed it so that everypart of the Joker's normal self had been alterted to fit his new persona

martian1127
7th Jan 2011, 21:50
I think Joker know who is he. The big question for him is, and will be forever, who is Batman?!

Exactly.

Joker is more fascinated by causing mass havoc throughout Gotham. When Batman shows up it sends fire works to his sense of pleasure. I believe he enjoys the mystery of searching for the true answer behind Batman.

Yabab
11th Jan 2011, 13:08
Just now I was thinking about Joker and his illness. Ever since we saw that trailer, it seems everyone is focused on Hugo Strange and of course the awesomeness of the mercs and such... and then a bizarre idea popped into my mind. We all know Joker is ill, but from what we've no idea. Some think it's possibly Titan, but it's been a whole year and the devs (I think) dropped hints that it had nothing to do with Titan.

Some think cancer or some other deadly ailment, but just now something hit me. We all know that Joker doesn't care about who Batman is under the mask - he only cares about "the mask" itself; Batman. We also saw Hugo Strange torturing that captain to gain any info out of him, and finally the man died apparently from the abuse... What if Joker KNOWS Batman's identity, but just doesn't care? That'd go along with the comics and how they often hinted that Joker knows, just doesn't give a crap.

I know it's a stretch, but my mind is just going nuts with ideas. What if Joker knows, was captured by Hugo and interrogated and resisted for a long time? What if after the torture Joker was too drugged to resist anymore and blurted something out? Hugo drops Joker back into the city to let him rot or whatever. I do still think that Oracle being captured is a more likely reason for his knowing of his secret identity, but this one had some appeal and did lend a possible explanation for Joker's sickness. Just a thought.

Anyone else got some crazy ideas or opinions on this one?

This would actually be a nice explanation for the bruises and the wounds. But they said it is a disease.

Although I must say I do not recall seeing the Joker state he knows the identity of Batman, or how he came around this information. I know The Riddler knows, as seen at the end of HUSH series, but he wouldn't tell anyone.

Not to mention that the universe of Rocksteady may be based on the comics universe, but it doesn't follow it, with that in mind it is quite possible that the Joker somehow figured it out and that would be the challenge of the game, figuring out how. They might even kill him, you know, the Joker... That would be... satisfying.

martian1127
11th Jan 2011, 19:14
This would actually be a nice explanation for the bruises and the wounds. But they said it is a disease.

Although I must say I do not recall seeing the Joker state he knows the identity of Batman, or how he came around this information. I know The Riddler knows, as seen at the end of HUSH series, but he wouldn't tell anyone.

Not to mention that the universe of Rocksteady may be based on the comics universe, but it doesn't follow it, with that in mind it is quite possible that the Joker somehow figured it out and that would be the challenge of the game, figuring out how. They might even kill him, you know, the Joker... That would be... satisfying.

Speaking of Dr. T. Elliot, I think it's cool how nobody at Arkham has discovered he is Hush.

Batman The Trailer Hunter
11th Jan 2011, 20:37
Speaking of Dr. T. Elliot, I think it's cool how nobody at Arkham has discovered he is Hush.

Maybe cuz it hasnt happened yet

Matches Malone
11th Jan 2011, 21:44
I don't think Rocksteady meant to imply Thomas Elliot actually works at Arkham, it was just an Easter Egg. He is a surgeon not a psychiatrist. Just like Ra's would never be in Arkham, but his body was in there just for an easter egg.

martian1127
18th Jan 2011, 19:37
I don't think Rocksteady meant to imply Thomas Elliot actually works at Arkham, it was just an Easter Egg. He is a surgeon not a psychiatrist. Just like Ra's would never be in Arkham, but his body was in there just for an easter egg.

Actually Hush may be playing more of a role than what we would like to think. Him and Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow are actually close friends. In the comics, Jonathan Crane was an intern at a psych ward and he released Thomas Elliot from the ward. Later on they met in the criminal world. Hush actually coined his name from Scarecrow's reference to a lullaby. All this can be read on wikipedia and comic books. With Thomas Elliot having connections with Scarecrow, this would explain how Scarecrow had the hide out through the vent near the elevator. This would also explain how Scarecrow was able to make the fear Toxin, while in Arkham. Remember, he was a prison a patient at Arkham until he broke free. From there he lurked in the shadows of the Asylum. As for Thomas Elliot, he is a surgeon by day and Hush in the criminal world. The day job at Arkham gives him a decent salary. While there, he can work with criminals that he is doing surgery on. It's the most legit way to make connections with criminals. Most of them get hurt in fights, so become a surgeon at the one place most of them will go to.

It wouldn't surprise me if Thomas Elliot helped Mr. Freeze escape. Just think, of where Mr. Freeze's cell was. They probably kept his suit in another part of the Asylum. He wouldn't have made it off the Island alive because it would have been to hot for him to bare. Therefore, Thomas Elliot would come in handy during an escape.