View Full Version : Lore and Identity.

10th Apr 2014, 23:23
One of the biggest problems I'm seeing with this game is that there is nothing "iconic" in the game. Is the lore there? Yes. But we don't have anything that's exactly "iconic". We don't see Sarafan Warriors, the Vampires look almost nothing like their in-game counterparts (there's all sorts of evolution and de-evolution talk), but the fact remains: We need something iconic.

We need a human melee class with a shield, we need glyph magic users (who explicitly say GLYPH MAGIC). We need something that can be put forth right and center, that everyone can see, and say "Yeah, that's Legacy of Kain". Game Modes could even help reflect this: At the center of a map is the famous Soul Reaver! However, it's lost it's power... you must return it to your base, power it up, then rush it to the enemies base and destroy the altar of their God!

The twist? The two Gods, appearing different, are actually the Elder God, who is corrupting the Soul Reaver with his energies, and since he can't hurt himself with his own energies... it all ends up being a giant play to keep them fighting with one another, when he is the true enemy.

Classes... as stated, we need a Sarafan Knight pronto. The Humans need a melee class that can go toe to toe, but require strategy and skills, IE, shield blocking and bashing. Or a two hander that can crush foes and stun vampires. We also need to take advantage of Glyph Magic (Human Wraith/Hylden Agent), and Sorcery (Vampire Pillar-Charged/Chosen). This would immediately bring back thoughts of the spells and mechanics used in the old games, and align it more with the flavor of the original games.

I'm not sure how far the art along in the game is, but people are judging it less for it's merits as a standalone game, and more for the name that it holds. It needs to connect with the series it takes it name from, not just in lore, but in it's classes and it's art. It needs to be out there front and center, and give new players an idea of what they're playing into, and why they're doing it. You can tell a story with the stages and objectives, rather than simply using them as gameplay mechanics.

10th Apr 2014, 23:38
I agree ... while pretty, the art style is rather generic, and does not evoke memories of LOK. I think the evolved vampire models will be a step in the right direction, but the game doesn't have much of a LOK "feel" as of yet.

edit: I don't think the Sarafan or Glyph Magic have a place in this age, but more LOK themed imagery would certainly be welcome. And as cool as it would be, a melee human class is probably not an option because of gameplay mechanics.

11th Apr 2014, 01:39
I agree with the general sentiment that the game only stands to gain by embracing its link to the LoK franchise, and would benefit by incorporating more familiar imagery and concepts from the series.

However, I firmly disagree that a Sarafan Knight would be welcome, let alone needed. Their order has no place in this age, because they are all long dead as per the mythos of Soul Reaver. Their only representation during the era comes in the form of Kain's lieutenants, whose blissful ignorance of their own origins is a major part of the thematic irony in LoK. Kain has completely perverted the brotherhood, converting them to his cause, and they don't even know it. The lieutenants are the Sarafan.

To invent another faction using the same name, just for the sake of audience recognition/namedropping, would inevitably feel played out, and would be a serious contradiction and/or retcon. It didn't entertain many people when Blood Omen 2 did just that, as far as I remember. Personally, I thought the Sarafan were already well exploited in the series by the time Defiance rolled around, and I'd be happy to see them used much more sparingly in the future. The Ironguard/vampire hunters should remain their spiritual successors during this period.

Glyph magic also should be kept far away, at least in its past form. It doesn't have any traction in this timeline – it's introduced by the Hylden Lord after he escapes imprisonment due to the paradoxes in Soul Reaver 2, and shouldn't persist into the Soul Reaver era. As Hylden technology designed to wipe out other races, I really don't see it going down in history as a signature weapon for the humans – especially given that Blood Omen 2 heavily implied that it's nothing more than harvested human soul energy.

11th Apr 2014, 03:58
The problem with this is, your "Capture the Reaver" game-mode isn't feasible, really, if we're sticking to the Lore. Kain has the Reaver and wouldn't leave it laying about.

"It's a less-serious game mode!" ....Well. Alright. Fine. But I'm still against it personally, if not against its mechanics in that situation.

if we're taking Game Modes, I'd rather have a "Juggernaut" styled game mode where one of the players is chosen to be a random Lieutenant, with all the game-breaking powers a vampire his age and quality would entail. He hunts down the players. WHoever manages to take him down becomes the next Lieutenant until the end of the game-mode, where whoever got the most kills as the Lieutenant wins.

IE: Juggernaut from Halo. Predator Hunt from AVP 2010 (or whatever year. I cant remember right now), or Pitch Black mode from Riddick's Assault on Dark Athena (*Still ******* LOVED that game mode*)\
Howssat for Iconic.

11th Apr 2014, 09:58
As stated, the Sarafan don't belong in this game, at all.

Also, why would the Soul Reaver lose its power? We shouldn't have factions fighting for the EG, and some other God. The EG should remain nameless right now to all in Nosgoth. At the most, a vague reference, or so, where it's not clear what is being referred to -- that much might work. However, that "surprise" encounter with Raziel should remain that, and leave this devoid of him. First of all, he should have no reason to intercede. As long as the humans are dying (the vampires dying do not serve him one way, or another, since they stay anchored to their corpses and he can't get his grubby tentacles on them) and he's able to feast on their souls, he should be happy enough, while he waits for what he's truly waiting for: Raziel to wake up.

I do like the idea of both shields being used for a human class, and magic. That much, sure I'm all for.

The "talk" of evolved appearances is more than talk. Evolved skins are coming and that will deliver the iconic symbolism you speak of, which I agree this game needs more of. They also have a new class in the Prophets which may hold more linkage back to the series that people will like.

11th Apr 2014, 10:31
if we're taking Game Modes, I'd rather have a "Juggernaut" styled game mode where one of the players is chosen to be a random Lieutenant, with all the game-breaking powers a vampire his age and quality would entail. He hunts down the players. WHoever manages to take him down becomes the next Lieutenant until the end of the game-mode, where whoever got the most kills as the Lieutenant wins.

I love this idea! I had something similar in mind. So... my idea was that it would be a 5-player game mode. It would consist of 5 rounds, 5 minutes per round, and each round another player would take the role of Lieutenant, while others would be humans. Lieutenants would have a ridiculously high amount of health (50k or even more for example).

Now, I'm not sure how points system would work... As a Lieutenant, you would get a point for each human you kill, and as a human, you would get a point for every 1k or 2k damage you do to Lieutenant. After all rounds are done, the player with the most points wins the match. Maybe if you manage to "kill" a Lieutenant you or all humans would get extra 5-10 points.

For each Lieutenant, there would be a specific map which could be set somewhere in their territory or even in the same place where we battled them in Soul Reaver. Every clan except for Razielim has their Lieutenant patriarch. So... in order to have the same number of Lieutenants and vampire classes, I think it would be a cool idea to add Kain! :D also, it could allow using Sanctuary of the Clans as a map.

Now, here's the lore explanation for adding Kain and Sanctuary of the Clans. Maybe Kain periodically appeared during his time travels to see what's happening in Nosgoth. Remember, Melchiah said this to Raziel about Kain: "He makes himself known when He sees fit - not when commanded.". So it seems possible that he didn't jump in time straight from Raziel's execution to his resurrection. Now... since he is a vampire and needs to feed, maybe he used his mind control to persuade a group of hunters to infiltrate Sanctuary of the Clans, one part of which was left intentionally open and unguarded to lead the humans into a trap. Also, if Kain is implemented, using the Soul Reaver for his melee attacks is a must!