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Happy
6th Dec 2010, 17:23
Not sure if you guys saw MyImmortals post from a different thread (thanks for this, MI) - but thought it was well worth having a separate thread for it - something to give us all hope and to focus on the positives :)


"What do you think of the new Deus Ex game?"

"I've only seen what's been shown at various trade shows – no inside information! – but based on what I've seen, the Eidos Montreal team have done a terrific job capturing the spirit and gameplay ideals of the original. I couldn't be happier or prouder (well, unless I'd made it myself, maybe!). And I sure can't wait to play it – I've never had the chance to play a Deus Ex game where I didn't know all the secrets! That'll be a nice change of pace." Warren Spector

Red
6th Dec 2010, 17:27
That was a damage control statement because he said that 3rd person is a fail in one of his previous interviews.

motsm
6th Dec 2010, 17:31
I've said it before, and I spose I'll say it again. Even if he truly thought Human Revolution was the greatest game ever created, it wouldn't give me the tiniest grain of hope for it.

Happy
6th Dec 2010, 17:50
^ Why not?

jd10013
6th Dec 2010, 17:55
the guy did pile the same praise on Harvey and IW.

motsm
6th Dec 2010, 17:57
^ Why not?Of course I respect the guy for his accomplishments, but his opinion doesn't somehow change any of HR's issues; issues that don't need to be brought up here.

WildcatPhoenix
6th Dec 2010, 18:13
the guy did pile the same praise on Harvey and IW.

Exactly. We heard the same garbage PR statements back in 2003. Followed by a lot of finger-pointing after the game released.

Warren's statement makes no difference to me either way. It doesn't mean the game will be bad, it doesn't mean the game will be good, it doesn't mean the game will/won't be Deus Ex.

Rindill the Red
6th Dec 2010, 18:15
Warren Spector will always live on in the pantheon of game designers simply because Deus Ex was his brain child. I agree with many of his philosophies on game design and think he's a visionary for the field as an art.

The only problem is, in a technical manner, practically none of the games he's worked on have turned out that great. I mean, they're good, but they could have been a lot better.



"I've only seen what's been shown at various trade shows – no inside information!"

-He knows as much if not less than any of us do, (this was before even the gameplay trailer).



– but based on what I've seen, the Eidos Montreal team have done a terrific job capturing the spirit and gameplay ideals of the original.


-Many of us agree with him here. It definitely seems to capture the "spirit" or "heart" of Deus Ex with the cyberpunk atmosphere, augmentations, philosophical,sociological, and literary under-pinnings, and it's managed to encapsulate the gameplay mechanics in combat, stealth, hacking, etc.
- However, the game clearly doesn't follow the philosophy of the immersive sim, which is what he was getting at earlier (EM making choices he wouldn't have).



I couldn't be happier or prouder (well, unless I'd made it myself, maybe!).


- Deus Ex is Warren Spector's pride and joy. Seeing something so polished and beautiful like the VW trailers, and knowing that it was all inspired by your own work would certainly make someone proud and boost their ego.



And I sure can't wait to play it – I've never had the chance to play a Deus Ex game where I didn't know all the secrets! That'll be a nice change of pace." Warren Spector


- Of course he'll want to see how it turns out... it's essentially his franchise and he really wants to find out what they did with it. Not to mention he wants to experience a Deus Ex game that he didn't have to make himself.

cartridge
6th Dec 2010, 18:21
When was this interview? Link? I would like to read it.

Lady_Of_The_Vine
6th Dec 2010, 18:30
I believe Warren said something like 3P wouldn't be the approach he would take.

This is ancient news anyway. Not sure why Happy wanted to make a new thread for it.
But if it makes Happy happy, then I'm happy. :D

St. Mellow
6th Dec 2010, 18:47
Old news.

JCpies
6th Dec 2010, 20:05
It's EM propaganda. They're trying to make people feel good by letting the figurehead speak out, but in truth he's just a pawn to them.

Mindmute
6th Dec 2010, 20:37
It's EM propaganda. They're trying to make people feel good by letting the figurehead speak out, but in truth he's just a pawn to them.

It's a conspiracy! ;)

"EM has more power than the government"

Coyotegrey
6th Dec 2010, 20:56
It's EM propaganda. They're trying to make people feel good by letting the figurehead speak out, but in truth he's just a pawn to them.

How so? Warren's his own man at a separate company. We had nothing to do with these comments, other than showing him the game when he asks to see it. Warren's free to say whatever he wants, as far as we're concerned. Of course, it's always flattering when the series creator says nice things.

JCpies
6th Dec 2010, 21:00
I always forget that jokes don't translate well on the internet... but judging by your response, I think something is up... IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Mindmute
6th Dec 2010, 21:01
I always forget that jokes don't translate well on the internet... but judging by your response, I think something is up... IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Didn't I just say that too? Hmpft!

Coyotegrey
6th Dec 2010, 21:05
I always forget that jokes don't translate well on the internet... but judging by your response, I think something is up... IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

haha my bad. Nah, nothing's up! I swear! This is just something I've seen a lot of, and I wanted to step in and say something.

Happy
6th Dec 2010, 22:00
I believe Warren said something like 3P wouldn't be the approach he would take.

This is ancient news anyway. Not sure why Happy wanted to make a new thread for it.
But if it makes Happy happy, then I'm happy. :D

Only just discovered it from your "Facebook reposts" in another thread - it might be o,ld but better to focus on some good stuff than negative I thought :)

VectorM
6th Dec 2010, 22:17
That was a damage control statement because he said that 3rd person is a fail in one of his previous interviews.

Pretty much the ONLY thing he said was fail. And people think he needs to somehow back off from a statement like that, like it will cost him his carrier, please now.

puzl
6th Dec 2010, 22:17
I'm a little torn on good old Warren Spector. On the one hand, he made DX, so it automatically elevates him to Godlike status. On the other, he really hasn't made a good game in nearly 10 years now. It really pained me when he formed Junction Point (you know, the home for a developer who doesn't become a publishers b*tch), said he was working on an epic fantasy/sci-fi RPG, then he gets bought out by DISNEY, pitches the project to them, gets rejected and then ends up making what has turned out to be a very disappointing Mickey Mouse game, on a console i'd never even get to play it on anyway (*cough* dolphin *cough*)

He'll always have my reverence for making DX, but I don't put as much weight into his words as I once did. Saying that, he has never been one to keep quiet about his opinion and I think he's being truly honest when he says he's looking forward to HR. Rightly so too, as it's looking super.

Deus_Ex_Machina
6th Dec 2010, 23:31
It's EM propaganda. They're trying to make people feel good by letting the figurehead speak out, but in truth he's just a pawn to them.

Reminds me of an epic MGS2 quote from the President :

"Even if a pawn becomes a queen, he's still just a playing piece."

Deus_Ex_Machina
6th Dec 2010, 23:35
I'm a little torn on good old Warren Spector. On the one hand, he made DX, so it automatically elevates him to Godlike status. On the other, he really hasn't made a good game in nearly 10 years now. It really pained me when he formed Junction Point (you know, the home for a developer who doesn't become a publishers b*tch), said he was working on an epic fantasy/sci-fi RPG, then he gets bought out by DISNEY, pitches the project to them, gets rejected and then ends up making what has turned out to be a very disappointing Mickey Mouse game, on a console i'd never even get to play it on anyway (*cough* dolphin *cough*)

He'll always have my reverence for making DX, but I don't put as much weight into his words as I once did. Saying that, he has never been one to keep quiet about his opinion and I think he's being truly honest when he says he's looking forward to HR. Rightly so too, as it's looking super.

Agreed for the most part.

I too have become disappointed with Spector in recent years.

A few years ago, he said something to the effect of "casual/social/browser-based games are the future of the industry." It made me sad face. :(

Also, I too think Epic Mickey is a disappointment. I played it for an hour before deciding that Spector's magic has long been spent.

Ashpolt
7th Dec 2010, 00:27
A few years ago, he said something to the effect of "casual/social/browser-based games are the future of the industry." It made me sad face. :(

Exact wording time here - did he say it was the future of the industry, or that it should be the future of the industry? Because if it's the latter, I agree with you, facepalm time. If it's the former though, sadly he was spot-on with that prediction. Do you know how many people play Farmville? It's a sad state of affairs, for sure, but it's what's happening.


Also, I too think Epic Mickey is a disappointment. I played it for an hour before deciding that Spector's magic has long been spent.

I haven't played Epic Mickey (yet) but I read in Kotaku's review (http://kotaku.com/5707333/review-epic-mickey-reveals-the-price-of-mischief-but-with-camera-obscured) that it starts slowly - basically an overlong glorified tutorial - but gets a lot better over time. If you've still got it, stick with it. An hour's not a lot of time to judge a game - think of all the people put off by Liberty Island in DX!

BigBoss
7th Dec 2010, 00:35
That was a damage control statement because he said that 3rd person is a fail in one of his previous interviews.

The exact quote was "I'm curious why they chose 3rd person"......why does every pessimist who hates the 3rd person decision, interpret this as a "I hate it", "complete fail" statement?

Tecman
7th Dec 2010, 01:14
Exact wording time here - did he say it was the future of the industry, or that it should be the future of the industry? Because if it's the latter, I agree with you, facepalm time. If it's the former though, sadly he was spot-on with that prediction. Do you know how many people play Farmville? It's a sad state of affairs, for sure, but it's what's happening.

If I remember his speech right, it can basically be boiled down to "Guys, you won't like this, but we have to get rid of the stigma of playing games and bring way more people in with more accessible games, so the medium will be secure from political games, have a huge userbase - then when we reach critical mass we can go back and make niche titles again, since the niche of that huge player-base will be able to support such projects".

Unfortunately, all folks heard was "WARREN WANTS TO DUMB STUFF DOWN A BLOO BLOO BLOO". :hmm:

Unless he's referring to and older quote I'm not familiar with. :)

dixieflatline
7th Dec 2010, 01:30
I'm not saying Warren doesn't think what he said, but I would like to say that, like the film industry, the game industry is a fairly small world, so as a general rule the vast majority of people in it would go distances to avoid saying anything that could be considered negative about another person's product. This is because any negative comments made are often blown out context or porportion by the gaming media.

thedosbox
7th Dec 2010, 01:33
The exact quote was "I'm curious why they chose 3rd person"......why does every pessimist who hates the 3rd person decision, interpret this as a "I hate it", "complete fail" statement?

There's a tendency among people with strongly held views to interpret/interpolate facts to suit their own world view. Everyone does it, but some people are better at resisting that tendency than others.

3rdmillhouse
7th Dec 2010, 01:58
He just made a game about Mickey Mouse, his mental sanity is questionable.

Tecman
7th Dec 2010, 01:59
He just made a game about Mickey Mouse, his mental sanity is questionable.

Nothing questionable about it, dude is a huge Disney nerd.

Deus_Ex_Machina
7th Dec 2010, 02:03
I haven't played Epic Mickey (yet) but I read in Kotaku's review (http://kotaku.com/5707333/review-epic-mickey-reveals-the-price-of-mischief-but-with-camera-obscured) that it starts slowly - basically an overlong glorified tutorial - but gets a lot better over time. If you've still got it, stick with it. An hour's not a lot of time to judge a game - think of all the people put off by Liberty Island in DX!

I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't like ANYTHING about the game. Granted, I'm not a fan of Disney or of Mickey Mouse, but I kept an open mind while playing and I was disappointed with just about every aspect of the game. I think as a game itself, coming from Spector, it was a disappointment, because it could have been so much more.

3rdmillhouse
7th Dec 2010, 02:09
Nothing questionable about it, dude is a huge Disney nerd.

It only proves my point.

thedosbox
7th Dec 2010, 02:13
It only proves my point.

I assume you must love the view on that not-so-high horse, because the same is said about gamers by non-gamers.

3rdmillhouse
7th Dec 2010, 02:29
I assume you must love the view on that not-so-high horse, because the same is said about gamers by non-gamers.

Look at my horse, my horse is amazing, give it a lick....:nut:

Deus_Ex_Machina
7th Dec 2010, 02:33
Look at my horse, my horse amazing, give it a lick....:nut:

lol

FrankCSIS
7th Dec 2010, 02:52
And DE:HR loves Warren back!

The circle is complete.

Kodaemon
7th Dec 2010, 09:54
All this talk of Disney made me remember something: Disney and Square Enix have some serious collaboration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts) going on.

Which is not to say I suspect any influence on Warren here, more that it could open up some interesting possibilities in the future.

puzl
7th Dec 2010, 13:48
Kingdom Hearts is actually quite decent, as far as hybrid Disney/RPGs go. Epic Mickey had some good ideas, but I just never liked Mickey Mouse all that much and it seems to be tainted by a crap camera and frustrating controls. I'll probably play the emulated version in dolphin eventually, but i'm not expecting much.

I'm kinda glad it has bombed critically actually, as it might give Warren some incentive to go back to making games he is actually good at making again.

WildcatPhoenix
7th Dec 2010, 14:50
I love me some Warren, but I also think the guy bears a lot more responsibility for the IW debacle than many of us care to admit.

And truthfully, I would be complaining about the same issues if Warren were behind the helm of DXHR and tried to integrate TPP, regen health, cutscenes, etc. At least, I'd like to think I would.

Here's hoping he gets another shot at the DX franchise somewhere down the line.

Rindill the Red
7th Dec 2010, 14:55
Kingdom Hearts is actually quite decent, as far as hybrid Disney/RPGs go. Epic Mickey had some good ideas, but I just never liked Mickey Mouse all that much and it seems to be tainted by a crap camera and frustrating controls. I'll probably play the emulated version in dolphin eventually, but i'm not expecting much.

I'm kinda glad it has bombed critically actually, as it might give Warren some incentive to go back to making games he is actually good at making again.

Wouldn't it be awesome if the Disney+Square Enix collaboration is also about a Deus Ex movie spear-headed by Warren?

Kodaemon
7th Dec 2010, 15:29
How about a spiritual sequel to Tron 2.0, with gameplay envisioned by Spector and art by EM... I know it's not going to happen, but I drool uncontrollably at the very thought.

motsm
7th Dec 2010, 15:34
How about a spiritual sequel to Tron 2.0, with gameplay envisioned by Spector and art by EM... I know it's not going to happen, but I drool uncontrollably at the very thought.Tron 2.0 never seems to get the credit it deserves, I think people forget just how much more than a simple shooter it was. Just replayed it a few months ago, great fun.

Jehuty91
7th Dec 2010, 15:39
Because I'm a big Rpg player, I do want to eventually play Kingdom Hearts because I've heard great things. But I find it strange how people can be such Disney nerds. It kind of disappoints me that Warren is, especially given how crooked Disney actually is.

http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Disney.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL6FYxIuJlA&feature=fvst

motsm
7th Dec 2010, 15:45
It kind of disappoints me that Warren is, especially given how crooked Disney actually is.You people are just too much. :lol:

ⓣⓐⓕⓕⓔⓡ
7th Dec 2010, 16:13
Agreed for the most part.

I too have become disappointed with Spector in recent years.

A few years ago, he said something to the effect of "casual/social/browser-based games are the future of the industry." It made me sad face. :(

Also, I too think Epic Mickey is a disappointment. I played it for an hour before deciding that Spector's magic has long been spent.

Is he wrong to say that? Do tell. It's no secret that games like Guitar Hero and Wii Sports etc have a new niche in the market and I can see the appeal.

Doesn't mean he prefers it or endorses it.

Happy
7th Dec 2010, 18:14
I understand where you're coming from, but I didn't like ANYTHING about the game. Granted, I'm not a fan of Disney or of Mickey Mouse, but I kept an open mind while playing and I was disappointed with just about every aspect of the game. I think as a game itself, coming from Spector, it was a disappointment, because it could have been so much more.

So can I take it from your post that Mickey does not roam an elaborate setting of urban enivornments looking for answers to some deeply buried plots while carrying an array of firepower?

Nyysjan
7th Dec 2010, 18:51
So can I take it from your post that Mickey does not roam an elaborate setting of urban enivornments looking for answers to some deeply buried plots while carrying an array of firepower?

Shocking, isn´t it.

But seriously, it´s a mickey Mouse game, it´ll (probably) have child friendly story, a moronically cheerfull protagonist with annoyingly high pitched voice and most likely facepalmingly stupid plot twists, what are you going to expect from it?
And from what i could see from the one piece of cinematic i watched, the whole thing starts with Mickey breaking and entering some dudes home and messing with his stuff, not like there´s much you can safe from that. :p

Happy
7th Dec 2010, 19:28
lol

luminar
7th Dec 2010, 19:32
Honestly I think deus ex was a bit of a fluke. Not that its unreplicatable. I respect ken levine as a developer more. Despite the whole system shock dumb down deal.

AlexOfSpades
7th Dec 2010, 19:42
http://www.clubedos5.com.br/games/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Epic-Mickey-08.jpg

http://www.portallos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/horrormickey.jpg



... yea

luminar
7th Dec 2010, 20:05
http://www.clubedos5.com.br/games/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Epic-Mickey-08.jpg

http://www.portallos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/horrormickey.jpg



... yea

Is that concept art? Or just fan stuff.

jd10013
7th Dec 2010, 23:25
I love me some Warren, but I also think the guy bears a lot more responsibility for the IW debacle than many of us care to admit.



most of it wasn't' his fault. he handed the project over to Harvey. I think at that point he was more running the studio then making games. what in the hell got into Havey's mind is the question.

jd10013
7th Dec 2010, 23:27
Honestly I think deus ex was a bit of a fluke. Not that its unreplicatable. I respect ken levine as a developer more. Despite the whole system shock dumb down deal.


I think Warren said as much in an interview. I thought I remember seeing one somewhere in which he basically said everyone was so focused on Romero and the Daikatana nightmare that nobody was paying attention to him and he was free to design the game the way he wanted.

Happy
8th Dec 2010, 14:48
Well you can't say that Harvey didn't have his own vision for the game. Some of his ideas had merit, even if some of us felt they didn't work for IW.

For example, you guys remember him wanting to do the reticule stuff on his (I chose to forget the character's name) eyes? As an idea it was a good one - better integration/immersion, designed to appear as though you were looking out through the character's eyes...

It sucked! I hated it and I know I was not the only one. Wherever Harvey is now, I'm sure he's still going to keep trying out new things to "advance the game industry" and I wish him all the best.

Warren designed the best game I've ever played and for that, he'll always hold a special place in history. I sincerely hope that he'll come back to the origins of his past that will benefit both his professional career and gamers.

SageSavage
8th Dec 2010, 15:14
For example, you guys remember him wanting to do the reticule stuff on his (I chose to forget the character's name) eyes? As an idea it was a good one - better integration/immersion, designed to appear as though you were looking out through the character's eyes...

It sucked! I hated it and I know I was not the only one. Wherever Harvey is now, I'm sure he's still going to keep trying out new things to "advance the game industry" and I wish him all the best.

I think it's the execution that sucked, the idea is still nice. Something lile the Terminator's view (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQZNHThqMgo&NR=1) (even makes the object highlighting work; just loose the red hue and replace the info with something more useful) or this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s52miouZM2U&feature=fvw).

This is probably more what EM seems to be going for (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSfKlCmYcLc) but I want it more 80ies-style.

Happy
8th Dec 2010, 17:07
^ very good finds, Fox! Thanks man :)

Rindill the Red
8th Dec 2010, 18:22
I think it's the execution that sucked, the idea is still nice. Something lile the Terminator's view (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQZNHThqMgo&NR=1) (even makes the object highlighting work; just loose the red hue and replace the info with something more useful) or this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s52miouZM2U&feature=fvw).

This is probably more what EM seems to be going for (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSfKlCmYcLc) but I want it more 80ies-style.

In terms of providing more information about the environment, I think that would be an awesome idea to add depth to the background, interactivity, and believability of the game world.

Togglable of course... Adam walks into the room and immediately you get readouts on things in quick succession, prioritizing threats (and marking them permanently), moving to opportunities (like explosive barrels or fire extinguishers, etc.), then to points of egress, and finally you can walk around analyzing minute details like the objects or furniture.

Imagine walking into a room in Tong's hideout.
Your retinal aug outlines and marks two guards. Then it draws your attention to an explosive barrel on a push cart. You kick the pushcart towards the enemy and fire, killing them both. Next it outlines the door the guards were standing at, then goes to a vent to the right. Next it briefly outlines the many objects in the room you can get more detailed information on.

Walking up to a couch you get a read-out on some furniture he has... turns out the couch is a collectors piece that was stolen from some important person's house. After escaping, you meet that same important person later and tell them about it, leading to that person helping you locate and neutralize Tong and his men.

Imagine just looking at a painting on the wall and reading some relatively useless information about who painted the original (if it's a copy), when, and other factoids. Useless from a gameplay perspective but interesting none-the-less (and educational if the painting is from real life!).

Jong
8th Dec 2010, 19:32
I agree. This is what I posted in another thread 3 weeks ago:


My interpretation of this is that it is an "augmented reality" system, where your "retinal prosthesis augmentation" provides you with more information on objects that a) it has spotted and b) it knows something about.

................


Given all the other tech available, it seems totally credible that any implanted (or even headset based) AI system would be trying to assist you with contextual information. The only issue for me is the same as it would be in the real world - information overload. If you are busy spotting threats etc. the last thing you need are zillions of popup boxes with, for example, the mass and volume of every object!

I agree it should be possible to tune it or at least turn it on/off, but not because I want probable tech dumbed down to give me more of an "old-school challenge", but because in the real world it would make sense to be able to say "shut up and let me concentrate!". Sometimes in a sticky corner I might want to do the exact opposite and say "scan the area with all possible augs and give me some options"

So, as with so much, we really need to chill a little until we see the implementation.



Up front, as I said before, I totally agree this should be able to be turned on or off. It's just sensible, to allow for different play styles, but mainly because if I had that kind of aug I would want to be able to turn it off, especially when off duty!! But you guys are all so agreed this is a bad idea you won't even enter into a debate on it, which I have to say is not at all like this forum! :)

No modern fighter pilot would expect to work without AI helping him to pick and track targets. For sure I'd expect Jensen's opponents to be using all the technology at their disposal to quickly track and bring him down.

If this turns out to be just dumb highlighting, to make it easier for those with consoles, I'll be 100% behind you in saying to sucks, but if it is, as they've suggested, a form of augmented reality that allows Jensen to work at a faster pace and with better decision making than by sight alone then IMO it is totally realistic (in this game world) and supports true immersion. What's more, it would be needed to realistically combat opponents with similar tech.

Serendip1ty
11th Dec 2010, 14:01
Honestly I think deus ex was a bit of a fluke. Not that its unreplicatable. I respect ken levine as a developer more. Despite the whole system shock dumb down deal.


I think Warren said as much in an interview. I thought I remember seeing one somewhere in which he basically said everyone was so focused on Romero and the Daikatana nightmare that nobody was paying attention to him and he was free to design the game the way he wanted.

I wouldn't call it a fluke. More like alot of trial & error before getting it right, both Warren & Harvey have admitted this. Luckily for them they had time on their side.

In an interview Warren mentioned they've asked (begged?) Eidos for an extra 6 months after coming to the realisation the story was incoherent & full of plot holes. They didn't say it with so many words but basically getting these "extra" months saved DX & were desperately needed to polish things up.

As an example of one of things they did in these last months is that of integrating characters into the storyline. Take Ghunter for instance, after the first couple of missions he just disappeared & never came back on the radar... so basically the whole "chasing plot" was added. They tried to do this with as many characters as possible.

SageSavage
22nd Dec 2010, 21:01
Wired: Pentagon Wants to Give Troops Terminator Vision (http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12/pentagon-wants-to-give-troops-terminator-vision/)

LeMoN_LiMe
22nd Dec 2010, 21:41
I'd like to see an updated interview..........