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View Full Version : Sticking to walls in FPS.....Is this hard to do?



FreedomForever
20th Nov 2010, 21:45
Well when deus ex 3 was announced, I was hoping for lean/peak like in pc but I pretty much gave up on the idea since it was coming for consoles and console games usually dont have peak and lean.



Now I know the game is gonna feature the same third person wall sticking like all other games(masseffect,gow,etc).

Now I seen the gameplay it doesn't look that bad but still Im not big fan of looking over the corner without risking myself, its kind of too easy and it kinda ruins the experience imo.



So Im wondering why couldn't they just leave it in FPS when sticking to walls?....Im not sure if a game has done this so maybe there is a reason why......actually I think killzone has it(I want to be able to see my gun when sticking in walls tho to make it more realistic)



I think it will make battle way more funner, I mean imagine having aug where you run supper fast and sticking to walls and peeking all out all fast.



I know is to late to change this mechanic but maybe on a future game(deus ex 4 or Deus ex remake)?.....and im wonder what you guys think of this too lol.


Also FPS sticking to walls will make it standout.....all games these days have the same cover system, is kinda boring.

FrankCSIS
20th Nov 2010, 23:06
IOOI and I suggested such a system, some 6 months back (possibly more). It would have your back pressed against a wall, with your shoulders leaning in the direction you are heading. I suggested doing the exercise at home, to see what kind of vision you would get, especially around corners or while peeking through door entries.

This system would ensure that while in cover, you still get to see parts of your surrounding, instead of always facing a wall. Full body awareness would greatly help retain control, and position yourself the way you intend to.

I don't have the ability nor the knowledge to build this up and test this, but in theory I don't see any immediate limitations to such system. As far as I know it only doesn't exist because up until now no one has deemed it necessary to spend such amount of time and ressources into it. Just like third person wall huging did not exist until one game attempted it, and others perfected it.

KSingh77
20th Nov 2010, 23:14
Yes it is too hard to do for Eidos to attempt and will not try cause it is too hard.

Or it's the bs they say that players want to look at their character while in third person cover.

If I want to look at the character I'm playing,I'd look at the front or back cover of the game case or look on the internet.

Fox89
20th Nov 2010, 23:23
It's just a gameplay decision. The 3rd person camera gives players a much better view of whatever it is they're taking cover from. I do hope that 'leaning' from DX1 is back. I think when I'm trying to sneak around it'd be nice to stay in first person and learn from time to time rather than having to change to the third person view every time.

Tverdyj
20th Nov 2010, 23:32
we do get a crouch button in FP.
combined with strafe keys, you might be able to to do quick peeks, but it will depend entirely on the guards' AI nad response time.

Shralla
21st Nov 2010, 04:17
Yes it is too hard to do for Eidos to attempt and will not try cause it is too hard.

Or it's the bs they say that players want to look at their character while in third person cover.

Or maybe it's just marketing and you're a condescending ****.

Anyway, to the original poster, it really seems like the closest thing to what you're looking for is in Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad. Not yet out, they claim to be aiming to make the "most realistic weapon handling system" in video games.

I just spent half an hour trying to find this video for you, in the process watching a bunch of videos I hadn't seen before, and in every single one, there was some kind of feature that I've never heard of anybody doing before, but every last one seemed like such a natural evolution of the first-person wargame. Things that should have been in Call of Duty forever ago.

Anyway, check it out: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-red-orchestra/55367

KSingh77
21st Nov 2010, 04:30
Or maybe it's the smokes and mirriors you bought into.

Anywho,ignoring the s.o.b,a simple first person cover system like the leaning option isn't so hard.It worked well in F.E.A.R,worked will in Killzone 2.

God forbid a third person cover mechanics in a COD game.

Shralla
21st Nov 2010, 04:42
Or maybe it's the smokes and mirriors you bought into.

Oh yeah. I'm interested in this game because of the third-person mechanics. It's not because Deus Ex is my favorite game of all time or anything.

If you actually bothered reading what I said instead of jumping down my throat because I called you out for being obnoxious and condescending, you would realize that what I was SAYING is that third-person is a marketing decision. A decision which WILL generate interest in people who have never played Deus Ex before.

FreedomForever
21st Nov 2010, 08:30
Or maybe it's just marketing and you're a condescending ****.

Anyway, to the original poster, it really seems like the closest thing to what you're looking for is in Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad. Not yet out, they claim to be aiming to make the "most realistic weapon handling system" in video games.

I just spent half an hour trying to find this video for you, in the process watching a bunch of videos I hadn't seen before, and in every single one, there was some kind of feature that I've never heard of anybody doing before, but every last one seemed like such a natural evolution of the first-person wargame. Things that should have been in Call of Duty forever ago.

Anyway, check it out: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/gc-09-red-orchestra/55367
Thanks for the video, I actually have red orchestra, I didn't know they were making a sequel, can't wait.

Yeah thats the kind of system I would of like to be in Deus ex...allthough when I stick to walls I would like if I could aim my weapon in the direction I'm moving.....What I mean by this is like this picture lol

http://thetimes-tribune.com/polopoly_fs/1.958266!/image/2663827123.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_490/2663827123.jpg
http://209.197.7.114/f4n6v3z2/cds/weinterrupt.com/wp-content/uploads/swat.jpg?dopvhost=cdn.weinterrupt.com&doppl=1886e950546e3351543e335185fb348a&dopsig=7b8ac0c99d4de9382e87a4cc20659d42

you see how the guy is stuck to the wall but can still aim infront of him and not necessarly just stare at the wall and pop out like the clip you showed.....thats kinda what I want......it would make the game a whole lot fluid then to press a button to unstick to aim infront of you in case a guy comes out of the corner when you are staring at the wall.

Being able to stick to the wall like swat team guy in a matter of speaking and be able to shoot anybody that comes out of the corner....and of course pop out like the red orchestra game...maybe red orchestra already has this feature ,they just didnt show it.

I hope you guys understood lol.

I totally agree that the red orchestra covering should be in call of duty,all though call of duty is arcady, a system like this would make it more interesting. Im gonna check out some red orchestra clips now....thanks.

FreedomForever
21st Nov 2010, 08:36
IOOI and I suggested such a system, some 6 months back (possibly more). It would have your back pressed against a wall, with your shoulders leaning in the direction you are heading. I suggested doing the exercise at home, to see what kind of vision you would get, especially around corners or while peeking through door entries.

This system would ensure that while in cover, you still get to see parts of your surrounding, instead of always facing a wall. Full body awareness would greatly help retain control, and position yourself the way you intend to.

I don't have the ability nor the knowledge to build this up and test this, but in theory I don't see any immediate limitations to such system. As far as I know it only doesn't exist because up until now no one has deemed it necessary to spend such amount of time and ressources into it. Just like third person wall huging did not exist until one game attempted it, and others perfected it.

This is what I kinda want lol....stick to the wall but not stare at it and be able to see my surroundings incase somebody comes out from the side....staring at a wall will make it hard for me to react...but the system you described with make the gameplay way more fluid.

kdawg88
21st Nov 2010, 08:43
I think the less there are of these game mechanics, the more challenging the game becomes, and hence the more interesting it is. I've taken a liking to being able to leaning around corners, but I find things like looking down the gunsight and 3rd person cover mechanics quite tacky due to their cinematic effect.

TheYouthCounselor
21st Nov 2010, 12:55
Hmmm, I remember some of these game mechanics in a UT99 mod called Infilitration (my personal favorite) but Red Orchestra has really taken it to another level. These are very interesting innovations.

However I can see the weapon collisions with world objects would become annoying, such as when you're trying to turn and the gun gets you stuck.

Bluey71
21st Nov 2010, 13:40
IOOI and I suggested such a system, some 6 months back (possibly more). It would have your back pressed against a wall, with your shoulders leaning in the direction you are heading. I suggested doing the exercise at home, to see what kind of vision you would get, especially around corners or while peeking through door entries.

This system would ensure that while in cover, you still get to see parts of your surrounding, instead of always facing a wall. Full body awareness would greatly help retain control, and position yourself the way you intend to.

There were so many good suggestions like your's given to EM to consider. In addition to the above, do you remember in Rainbow Six Ravenshield, we could open doors slowly one inch at a time by using the middle mouse wheel. That kind of mechanic combined with your suggestion and stealth play, might work very well also.

FrankCSIS
21st Nov 2010, 16:18
However I can see the weapon collisions with world objects would become annoying, such as when you're trying to turn and the gun gets you stuck.

Don't see it as a problem. If you mean turn around corners, the system would handle it just as 3rd person cover handles corners. You lean as you turn, and either storm or blind fire. Blind fire here, as we said back then, would be a true defensive move, as it is in real life, because you really couldn't see where you are shooting.

If you mean turning around, there is no collision possible either. Your back is to the wall, with your shoulders inclining in the direction you are heading, with your weapon drawn. If you want to turn the other way, you must do a 180, just as you would in life. This would be a quick spin on yourself, takes less than half a second to do, and you're facing the other way.

As for doorways, the system could recognise them, just like cover shooters tend to do now. It could easily incorporate Bluey's suggestion. Your non-trigger hand can slowly push open a door while you maintain your weapon drawn. The possibility either to slowly push it opened or storm the entrance shouldn't be too complicated to manage, at least with a mouse and keyboard. I can see it being tougher on a console, but one of the two analog sticks could be used with as much precision, when the system knows you are in "door entry" mode.

Of course this would all require a learning curve from the player, but the beauty of it is that it is optional. You use what you master, and may miss out on some moves while still retaining a solid experience.

Shralla
21st Nov 2010, 18:20
I think he's talking about the way when you raise your weapon for iron sights, it will collide with walls and stuff in the environment on the sides to give you a sense of your gun actually being there.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you do get a hang up, you can just jerk your mouse and complete the turn, or just lower your iron sights since you're going around a corner anyway. And of course, I would say the benefit of the system (being able to take partial cover without actually going into cover, and you're still assured that your bullets aren't going to ping uselessly off the wall next to you because of poor sense of self) far outweigh any issues that might arise.

If you guys liked that one video, I would definitely check out some more videos about it, especially some of the newer ones that show off things like sniper scopes. I swear, given how big a company Activision is, and the fact that Call of Duty is the industry leader in wargames, Call of Duty should have had pretty much every single one of these features for years.

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/mechanics-walkthrough-red-orchestra/703582

Cronstintein
21st Nov 2010, 21:06
Why try something new and run the risk of some people not liking it when you can release the exact same game year after year and break sales records.
$$$

IOOI
21st Nov 2010, 23:03
Ok, I've been trying to perfect the FP cover system (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1403532&postcount=84) - taking inspiration from HR and R6V cover systems - and this is what I got so far.





"FrankCSIS - F.P. Cover System" by IOOI


System #2

-There is one button needed to operate the cover system and it can be mapped in one of the following ways, in order for you to operate the movement keys (WASD) comfortably:

using the Mouse (for instance, the right mouse button) - like in R6V, hold the button to get into cover and release it to get out (cover can still be toggled);
using the keyboard (for instance, the Ctrl key) - hold the button to get into cover and release it to get out (cover can still be toggled).


Controls:------cover----------------scope/zoom---fire mode-----holster---action(s)---crouch---jump/turn body---drop/throw

Mouse --------RMB (hold or tap)---MMB-----------C--------------Q--------E------------Ctrl------Space-------------Alt
Keyboard -----Ctrl (hold or tap)----RMB-----------MMB-----------Alt------E------------C--------Space--------------Q
Keyboard 2 ---C (tap)--------------RMB-----------MMB-----------Q--------E------------Ctrl------Space-------------Alt
Keyboard 3 ---C (tap)--------------Tab------------backslash/<---Alt------RMB---------Ctrl------Space-------------MMB


-When near a wall (crate, pillar, ... any object liable to make cover) pressing the cover button will put your back against the wall.
-As an option, there could be a way to switch between "backing" against cover and facing cover.
-You'll be able to control the vision (head movement) with the mouse movements - you'll have the same range of motion like IRL*.
-You'll be able to move along walls (left and right keys), crouching (backward key) and standing up (forward key) when needed.


While in cover:

-To peek You'll need to get to the edge of which side of the wall you intend to look (left or right) using the movement keys and tap the movement key (left, right or forward) to peek** - you'll be able to control the vision around the corner.

To peek above cover, tap forward (W key); to get down, tap backward (S key);
To peek to the sides, tap left (A key) or right (D key); to get back into cover, tap the opposing movement key; hold the movement key, to continue around the corner, in cover mode;
While peeking, to quickly peek on the other side of a pillar or column, hold the oppossing movement key for a short period of time (until the movement is done);
To shoot, just press the primary fire button (left mouse button) while peeking;
When peeking you'll still be able to use your scope/ironsight - if a weapon is drawn - or zoom in - if a weapon is on holster - by pressing the scope/zoom button;
If there are any stealth/stalking missions involved, the act of peeking around a corner (in cover mode) with weapons on holster when in a crowded city street, shouldn't be seen as suspicious behaviour, unless you use the cover mode to walk long distances. (Of course that there are other ways to watch someone around a corner without peeking, like using reflections from shop windows).

-To blindfire, you'll need to move as close to the edge as you can without peeking**, point the mouse at the desired side (up, left or right) and then press the primary fire button - the gun will be out around the cover as long as you press primary fire, and you'll still be able to control the gun's direction.
-To turn the body 180ยบ (switch between having the back against cover or facing cover), just press jump/turn body (Space key) - if you like/have to face cover when the situation demands;
-To crouch when in cover, tap backward (S key) - usefull when passing by in front of windows;
-To get out of cover, press the cover button - if the cover is turned off while you're peeking, you'll be facing in the direction you're aiming in order to feel like a natural movement.


Optional features and improvements:

-While standing up close and facing a guardrail, by pressing the action button and then forward, you should be able to lean forward in order to see whats happening in a lower and upper level (with the mouse movement). To get out just press the action button.
-Some actions can be toggled: "True to DX, doors should be pushed-opened by the player, meaning that when around the corner of a door entry you should be able to open the door while still in cover mode, and risk leaning your head in to see what's going on in the room. Cover fire could of course also apply here, as well as grenades or other throwable tech, but it would always be done blindly, as in real life." (FrankCSIS (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1403563&postcount=86))
-If a weapon is drawn when peeking, it will obviously be seen as threat for the NPCs on the other side of the corner. This could work well when an unarmed opponent is caught by surprise and is forced to stay quiet, then you should be able to get closer in order to Knock him out, by tapping the action button, or take him as a meat shield, by holding the action button. The meat shield as a duration though. Once it has soaked enough bullets - rendering it unusable - the PC should let go off the body. Also, if you abuse this feature, AI awareness should increase in later levels - that means no more pair of guards talking to each other with their backs turned to you;




* - almost 360-degree field of view when turning the head from side to side.
** - To let you know you're getting closer to the edge, there should be a change on the pace or the movement should be stopped (and then you should be able to use the movement key again to peek).

3rdmillhouse
21st Nov 2010, 23:38
Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad has a great system on that subject, and it's incredibly realistic.

Rindill the Red
22nd Nov 2010, 00:54
Ok, I've been trying to perfect the FP cover system (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showpost.php?p=1403532&postcount=84) - taking inspiration from HR and R6V cover systems - and this is what I got so far...

Proof in point that dedicated intelligent video game connoisseurs should be leading development teams (with the assistance of professionals to guide them through the other non-creative aspects of video game design).

So long as there is no other third person in the game... I would love to play a game like that.

IOOI
22nd Nov 2010, 15:56
R6: Ravenshield, MoH: Airborne and Red Orchestra seem to have interesting concepts on cover. I'll try those if I can find them.