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View Full Version : Licensed James Bond game has better takedowns than Deus Ex?



Shralla
6th Oct 2010, 19:32
http://www.ign.com/videos/2010/09/27/james-bond-007-behind-the-scenes-combat-video?objectid=14303821

Interaction with the environment, takedowns straight out of and involving cover that he's hiding behind. Tossing bad guys over railings and slamming them into walls...

All more or less better than what we've seen from the takedowns in Deus Ex. They keep on pushing the big "contextual" aspect of the takedowns, but we haven't seen anything on the level of what's in that James Bond video. All we've gotten for environmental interaction is the single instance of punching through a wall, and not even any hints or statements that suggest we might see some takedowns that involve the environment.

I think that involving the environment with the takedowns could go a long way towards improving the visual and immersive aspects of the hand-to-hand combat. What do you guys think?

Pinky_Powers
6th Oct 2010, 19:37
Yeah, there's some cool stuff there. I might have to play that game. :)

NKD
6th Oct 2010, 19:53
Those ARE some pretty damn fantastic takedowns. Though I'm not going to lose any sleep if DX's aren't quite up to par with that. I imagine that must have been a hell of a thing to design.

JCpies
6th Oct 2010, 19:58
I almost had a heart attack, I thought the title was going to be 'Licensed James Bond game has been cancelled'.

lol.

NKD
6th Oct 2010, 19:59
I almost had a heart attack, I thought the title was going to be 'Licensed James Bond game has been cancelled'.

lol.

They've all but cancelled the next movie due to MGM's financial incompetence. A shame, because whenever they run into trouble like this, it means they recast Bond when they get back on track. I really like Daniel Craig's bond. My second favorite.

SageSavage
6th Oct 2010, 20:07
They sound like they have the right philosophy and it looks fluid but I am not sure how much of that impression comes from the way this promo-clip has been cut together. Also, the clip didn't sell me the game as it looks pretty much like an average action title for consoles. Nothing to get overly excited about, IMO.

JCpies
6th Oct 2010, 20:08
They've all but cancelled the next movie due to MGM's financial incompetence. A shame, because whenever they run into trouble like this, it means they recast Bond when they get back on track. I really like Daniel Craig's bond. My second favorite.

I know, but I see blood stone as the replacement for the movie. =)

Dead-Eye
6th Oct 2010, 20:20
They've all but cancelled the next movie due to MGM's financial incompetence. A shame, because whenever they run into trouble like this, it means they recast Bond when they get back on track. I really like Daniel Craig's bond. My second favorite.

I agree. Although I would say he is my favorite. Connery was just too cheesy for me.

Pretentious Old Man.
6th Oct 2010, 20:23
"We're not taking you out of the action with cutscenes or anything like that".

Nice to know someone understands what constitutes a good takedown system. Kudos to that guy.

Pinky_Powers
6th Oct 2010, 20:23
They sound like they have the right philosophy and it looks fluid but I am not sure how much of that impression comes from the way this promo-clip has been cut together. Also, the clip didn't sell me the game as it looks pretty much like an average action title for consoles. Nothing to get overly excited about, IMO.

It's true. The controls and the shooting still look nastily loose. And I'm positive I saw some auto-aim going on there. :hmm:

Blade_hunter
6th Oct 2010, 20:40
"We're not taking you out of the action with cutscenes or anything like that".

Nice to know someone understands what constitutes a good takedown system. Kudos to that guy.

That's what I appreciated to hear as well, just one question what the player is doing for making all these actions ?

Pinky_Powers
6th Oct 2010, 20:50
Button mashing, probably.

Pretentious Old Man.
6th Oct 2010, 20:54
It's a licensed 007 game. Of course it's going to be crap.

Shralla
6th Oct 2010, 20:57
They sound like they have the right philosophy and it looks fluid but I am not sure how much of that impression comes from the way this promo-clip has been cut together. Also, the clip didn't sell me the game as it looks pretty much like an average action title for consoles. Nothing to get overly excited about, IMO.

I'm just talking about the takedowns though, not the rest of the game. In fact, if anything, my point IS the fact that an "average action title for consoles" seems to have better takedowns than Deus Ex. I want some slamming people into walls. Make it REALLY contextual. Make the environment matter for your takedowns.

Pinky_Powers
6th Oct 2010, 21:13
I want some slamming people into walls. Make it REALLY contextual. Make the environment matter for your takedowns.


But... really?

I mean, if you've got robo arms with blades in them, why would you ever need to do anything more than punch, choke, or stab a guy?

Corpus
6th Oct 2010, 21:16
Yes but thats probably the only gimmick they've worked on. I hope DX:HR at LEAST lets you slam people into walls.

Pinky_Powers
6th Oct 2010, 21:23
I hope DX:HR at LEAST lets you slam people into walls.


Or over railings like we saw in Bioshock Infinite. :thumb:

hem dazon 90
6th Oct 2010, 21:48
I am soo happy that there is a new Bond game.

Shralla
6th Oct 2010, 21:59
But... really?

I mean, if you've got robo arms with blades in them, why would you ever need to do anything more than punch, choke, or stab a guy?

Well what's the fun of super-strength robot arms if you can't bodily throw a guy off a ledge or something?

Spyhopping
6th Oct 2010, 22:26
DXHR's takedown animations are still very good in comparison, not as realistic but usually with quite an arty flourish (the tap on the shoulder for example) and they are still satisfying. Anyway, I should hope that HR will have something much more substantial to be remembered by than brutal takedowns with environmental gestures.

xsamitt
6th Oct 2010, 23:03
DXHR's takedown animations are still very good in comparison, not as realistic but usually with quite an arty flourish (the tap on the shoulder for example) and they are still satisfying. Anyway, I should hope that HR will have something much more substantial to be remembered by than brutal takedowns with environmental gestures.

I agree.....I'm not into DX because of any cool fighting moves.DX means and is so much more than that.If that's the goal then we are indeed doomed for round 3.

Rindill the Red
6th Oct 2010, 23:08
I couldn't care less about the contextuality of the take-downs in Deus Ex.

What I do care about is the freedom and variety imparted by both the augmentations and how they interact with each other, with the environment, with your enemies, and with any other tools at your disposal.

Say you have the super-strength and the camo-cloak.

I would like to see you able to enable both, sneak up behind a guy, put him in a choke hold, walk around with him as a shield and disguise, and if the opportunity presents itself, to use his gun to gun down your enemies.

My favorite style of play, in games that allow it, is to never have to use my own weapons, which I think is one reason Mirror's Edge was so appealing to me. In the Hitman series I would either stealth or get close enough to take my enemy's weapon.

We already know that augmented vision + super strength is affective for take-downs through walls.

One of the very interesting and entertaining things in DA:O was the ability for my wizard to combine spells in interesting and effective manners. And the combination spell system they are implementing for Two Worlds II has convinced me to check the game out when it's release in a few months.

Another possibility might be combining an explosive mod for a gun + augmented vision. You can see the structural load bearing points in a building from your advanced computer interface augmented vision, fire delayed explosives on all of them, then detonate to trap your enemies.

Jumping aug + armor aug = Use your own augmented body as a weapon (as did Mr. Boyscout in the trailer), launch yourself at enemies to take them out with the force of your jump and armor.

Obviously there are many many more possibilities that people could think up and I just realized I don't actually know what all the augmentations are going to be...

Shralla
7th Oct 2010, 02:31
I agree.....I'm not into DX because of any cool fighting moves.DX means and is so much more than that.If that's the goal then we are indeed doomed for round 3.

Everybody knows that. My point is that with the takedowns being such a central part of the game, don't you want them to be the best they can be?

Gordon_Shea
8th Oct 2010, 20:25
They've all but cancelled the next movie due to MGM's financial incompetence. A shame, because whenever they run into trouble like this, it means they recast Bond when they get back on track. I really like Daniel Craig's bond. My second favorite.

Nope. MGM is apparently out of the hole (they're axing their marketing and distribution arms to refocus on production) and they're planning to begin work on The Hobbit and the next Bond movie next year.

Also the takedowns from the video look pretty canned to me, and we have seen contextual elements in the DX3 takedowns. They just seem to ahve more to do with stuff like whether Adam's cloaked, number of enemies, etc.

WildcatPhoenix
8th Oct 2010, 20:52
I agree.....I'm not into DX because of any cool fighting moves.DX means and is so much more than that.If that's the goal then we are indeed doomed for round 3.

Amen.

We've been talking about "rewarding" the player with all these awesome takedowns for so long that it almost seems to be taken for granted. EM lost the plot a long time ago on this issue.

BigBoss
30th Oct 2010, 19:40
that bond game looks really cool. A lot of ppl on the batman forums are complaining bond "stole" it from batman lol

Deus_Ex_Machina
31st Oct 2010, 00:28
It's a licensed 007 game. Of course it's going to be crap.

While I agree that all current and some previous Bond games weren't anything special, Goldeneye N64 is a get out of jail free card for the Bond franchise, IMO.

rubiomhs
31st Oct 2010, 03:48
any game that has proper character models> deus ex

pringlepower
31st Oct 2010, 04:10
While I agree that all current and some previous Bond games weren't anything special, Goldeneye N64 is a get out of jail free card for the Bond franchise, IMO.

Quantum of Solace was okay.

Rindill the Red
31st Oct 2010, 05:25
Quantum of Solace was okay.

There were icky parts to that game, but overall it was pretty good. I think it was more entertaining than the COD:MW it was based off of.

hem dazon 90
31st Oct 2010, 08:38
Quantum of Solace was okay.

Everything or nothing was equal to (if not better than) Goldeneye.

sonicsidewinder
31st Oct 2010, 14:51
'Goldeneye' - legend

'Tomorow Never Dies' - Game was awesome imo

'The world is not enough' - Got stuck on the poker game as a kid haha

Then i remember 'Nightfire' on ps2? - The multiplayer was very fun.

Pretentious Old Man.
31st Oct 2010, 15:14
While I agree that all current and some previous Bond games weren't anything special, Goldeneye N64 is a get out of jail free card for the Bond franchise, IMO.

It was a great shooter. I never felt that it made good use of the JB license, though. Felt more like a bona fide fps in the manner of Perfect Dark.

Facebyface
31st Oct 2010, 15:24
Felt more like a bona fide fps in the manner of Perfect Dark.

According to Stuttering Craig at Screwattack, they're the same exact game.

Pretentious Old Man.
31st Oct 2010, 15:45
Oh yeah, I remember that. Well, they are both Rare, are they not? ;)

Shralla
31st Oct 2010, 17:36
that bond game looks really cool. A lot of ppl on the batman forums are complaining bond "stole" it from batman lol

Stole what from Batman? If anything, it looks like pretty much the entirety of the takedown/mark and execute system was lifted straight out of Splinter Cell: Conviction.

Ninjerk
31st Oct 2010, 19:45
Oh yeah, I remember that. Well, they are both Rare, are they not? ;)

PD came after Goldeneye and from what I've read is considered its spiritual successor. I imagine they didn't have the license for the following movie, whatever that was (Tomorrow Never Dies?).

KSingh77
31st Oct 2010, 22:58
that bond game looks really cool. A lot of ppl on the batman forums are complaining bond "stole" it from batman lol

Holy rip off Batman!

BigBoss
1st Nov 2010, 16:15
Stole what from Batman? If anything, it looks like pretty much the entirety of the takedown/mark and execute system was lifted straight out of Splinter Cell: Conviction.

I was thinking more splinter cell chaos theory(conviction came out after Arkham), I did a play through of that game where the only equipment I used was the knife.

LostinTransplantation
3rd Nov 2010, 16:15
has to be said though that the last bond game was a FPS/TPS hybrid like DXHR - this is full-on TPS. if you're gonna act like this bond game shows DXHR the way you're also advocating auto-aim, gimmicky driving sequences, lots of scripting, completely linear gameplay, suicidal enemies that take cover next to explosive objects etc etc.
this game has talented animators and mo-cap actors but THAT'S PROBABLY IT.

Shralla
3rd Nov 2010, 17:23
First of all, you've never played it, so you don't know any of that for sure.

Secondly, no ****. I missed the part of the topic where I said "Hey guys this is everything that Deus Ex should have been."

OwlSolar
4th Nov 2010, 00:23
It has everything I would want in a James Bond game. I'm just going to leave it at that.

Rindill the Red
4th Nov 2010, 00:41
I rented the game this evening. I hope Deus Ex: Human Revolution adds a little more variety to the take downs, I'm already tired of seeing the exact same one's over and over again.

I also found myself missing the interactiveness of the QoS takedowns... even though they were rather simple... and their repetitiveness didn't bother me as much, probably because I was less concerned with how they looked as I actually had something to do other than just sit back and watch.

I'm starting to think the DX:HR takedowns might be improved by adding some sort of interactiveness. Quick-time, or something, I don't know, some sort of mini-game skill needed.

About Bloodstone in general:
You can tell it's made by people who made racing games...
The visual effects that are neat when you are pretending to be behind the wheel and front wind-shield of a car are less cool and in place while running around as Bond.

Someone here once complained about guns sounding puny... usually this doesn't bother me, but bloodstone has achieved a whole new level of puny-sounding guns.

It plays A LOT like Splinter Cell: Conviction... except you can't crouch.

I hated Convicition, I felt it was a betrayal to the Splinter Cell franchise... maybe that's colored my impression negatively.

I just don't like it's feel.

OwlSolar
4th Nov 2010, 00:46
There are quite a few people who would hate that even more.

Personally though, I would like the takedowns a lot more if each button press corresponded with a blow. It feels a lot more satisfying to beat people up that way.

Rindill the Red
4th Nov 2010, 01:01
There are quite a few people who would hate that even more.

Personally though, I would like the takedowns a lot more if each button press corresponded with a blow. It feels a lot more satisfying to beat people up that way.

Exactly, some way of connecting yourself to the physicality of the situation. You want to feel like it is YOU who is being violent.

OwlSolar
4th Nov 2010, 01:06
I don't really care about that. I just find it more satisfying in general.

oscarMike
4th Nov 2010, 10:58
I always thought that, since we're about to have takedowns, they should resemble "Escape From Butcher Bay" melee combat mechanics! They are conducted in First Person, not ONCE do they take you out of game experience and there is nothing more rewarding then to see with "your own eyes" how you stuck a shotgun in guards mouth after he tried to hit you with gun stock! Priceless...

I can go with regenerated health... christ I can even made peace with third person view from time to time, but those cutscene-takedowns are ridiculous, pointless and just unnecessary glamour made for younger mainstream audience!

But, what's done is done! No point in arguing now what would be better or worse...
..either you like it(takedowns) and play the game.. or you don't like it and play the game or you totally hate it and still play the game.

BigBoss
4th Nov 2010, 17:14
I always thought that, since we're about to have takedowns, they should resemble "Escape From Butcher Bay" melee combat mechanics! They are conducted in First Person, not ONCE do they take you out of game experience and there is nothing more rewarding then to see with "your own eyes" how you stuck a shotgun in guards mouth after he tried to hit you with gun stock! Priceless...

I can go with regenerated health... christ I can even made peace with third person view from time to time, but those cutscene-takedowns are ridiculous, pointless and just unnecessary glamour made for younger mainstream audience!

But, what's done is done! No point in arguing now what would be better or worse...
..either you like it(takedowns) and play the game.. or you don't like it and play the game or you totally hate it and still play the game.

I think mirrors edge had kind of a cool idea with the quick flash on the weapon that you had to time to hit. If you time it right, it initiates the disarm in first person, but if you time it wrong, the guard punches you in the face.

Mindmute
4th Nov 2010, 17:37
I think mirrors edge had kind of a cool idea with the quick flash on the weapon that you had to time to hit. If you time it right, it initiates the disarm in first person, but if you time it wrong, the guard punches you in the face.

I wouldn't mind something like that, as long as it was balanced to avoid becoming a gimmick. It'd present to you the non-arbitrary chance of failure and require more player interaction than the ones DX:HR seems to be going for.

oscarMike
4th Nov 2010, 18:48
I think mirrors edge had kind of a cool idea with the quick flash on the weapon that you had to time to hit. If you time it right, it initiates the disarm in first person, but if you time it wrong, the guard punches you in the face.

Mirrors edge always seemed to me a bit peculiar! When you write down the concept, things you do and what is the game all about, the most logical choice would be, you think, third person view.. since you jump, slide, glide all the time... great game indeed.
And also a good example of melee mechanics in which your immersion is intact.
I'm a stealth player myself. And I can't imagine every time I'm about to slit some throat, break some neck or just back-stab someone, that I must observe a mini cut-scene... from this point, I does look to me utterly ridiculous..


I wouldn't mind something like that, as long as it was balanced to avoid becoming a gimmick. It'd present to you the non-arbitrary chance of failure and require more player interaction than the ones DX:HR seems to be going for.

Interaction and immersion!! Two key words that boys from Eidos missed in their "book of games"...

BigBoss
4th Nov 2010, 19:25
Mirrors edge always seemed to me a bit peculiar! When you write down the concept, things you do and what is the game all about, the most logical choice would be, you think, third person view.. since you jump, slide, glide all the time... great game indeed.
And also a good example of melee mechanics in which your immersion is intact.
I'm a stealth player myself. And I can't imagine every time I'm about to slit some throat, break some neck or just back-stab someone, that I must observe a mini cut-scene... from this point, I does look to me utterly ridiculous..



Interaction and immersion!! Two key words that boys from Eidos missed in their "book of games"...

I think when it comes to free running games, first person is way better. Assassins creed would sometimes get messy at tight points when the computer would decide which ledge you were going to jump onto next, but I didn't have that problem in mirrors edge because you had far more control.

As for the camera jump, I thought it was coo the way they pulled it off in turok, but maybe that was because the dinosaurs were so big, if it stayed in 1st person, all you would see is a knife going into a neck.

OwlSolar
4th Nov 2010, 23:14
I'm a stealth player myself. And I can't imagine every time I'm about to slit some throat, break some neck or just back-stab someone, that I must observe a mini cut-scene... from this point, I does look to me utterly ridiculous..Don't look at it like a cutscene, then. A perspective switch does not automatically make it a cutscene.

Rindill the Red
4th Nov 2010, 23:18
Don't look at it like a cutscene, then. A perspective switch does not automatically make it a cutscene.

No, but pulling to third person, your character doing something without any interaction on your part, and then pulling back into first person where you get to control things... sounds a lot like a cut-scene to me.

OwlSolar
4th Nov 2010, 23:22
There are many, many instances where your character does something without interaction from you. Like reloading, for example. And you don't see anyone referring to takedowns in other games as cutscenes. The perspective switch is the only difference, and I would argue that a perspective switch is not enough to make a cutscene.
Honestly, referring to takedowns as cutscenes is thoughtless and inaccurate. Either that, or it's a derogatory term with the intent of being inaccurate.

Rindill the Red
5th Nov 2010, 00:30
There are many, many instances where your character does something without interaction from you. Like reloading, for example. And you don't see anyone referring to takedowns in other games as cutscenes. The perspective switch is the only difference, and I would argue that a perspective switch is not enough to make a cutscene.
Honestly, referring to takedowns as cutscenes is thoughtless and inaccurate. Either that, or it's a derogatory term with the intent of being inaccurate.

Does reloading stop you from controlling your character, pull the camera out to third person, while your character is interacting with other characters, for 2 to 5 seconds, and then bring you back in once done?

No.

And the pitfall of the non-interactivity of reloading has made significant progress in games like Gears of War and Alien Swarm.

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 00:39
Reloading is just an example, and not a particularily strong one. I love how you automatically jump on that point. Besides, virtually nothing you said had anything to do with my point anyway. I was just saying that the animation for reloading has your character doing things without your interaction. And as for your point about that, for every person who likes that sort of thing, there's another who complains that it's become a minigame. Sound familiar?

Anyway, you keep going back to complaining about third-person. Again (for the third time), I don't see why third-person automatically makes it a cutscene.

Rindill the Red
5th Nov 2010, 01:20
Reloading is just an example, and not a particularily strong one. I love how you automatically jump on that point. Besides, virtually nothing you said had anything to do with my point anyway. I was just saying that the animation for reloading has your character doing things without your interaction. And as for your point about that, for every person who likes that sort of thing, there's another who complains that it's become a minigame. Sound familiar?

Anyway, you keep going back to complaining about third-person. Again (for the third time), I don't see why third-person automatically makes it a cutscene.

So, how do you define a cut-scene?

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 01:21
It'd definitely have to involve more than a perspective change.

Ninjerk
5th Nov 2010, 02:35
Loss of control of your character while you watch them do stuff.

The takedowns almost look like quicktime events. What I wouldn't give to have a combo system or something that would have you enter "takedown mode" and you have to choose what body parts to target.

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 02:37
Many other games have takedowns. I don't see people calling those cutscenes.

BigBoss
5th Nov 2010, 05:00
Pretty much everything would be a cutscene then by this definition. If "pulling to third person, your character doing something without any interaction on your part, and then pulling back into first person where you get to control things" is a cutscene, which seems to be hated by this forums hardcore, then that means the dialogue system of even the original deus ex was a cutscene. The exact same arguement could be pulled saying that takes away immersion......I have the slightest feeling it's just diehards kind of jumping the gun here on any changes the devs make for the series, no one has played the game after all......

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 05:08
A lot of people would say that the dialogue portions are cutscenes.

Rindill the Red
5th Nov 2010, 05:11
You get to choose your dialogue... so no, it is not a cut-scene, it is interactive.

And I'm not against third person take-downs, or the third-person/first-person mix. I actually think I'll rather enjoy it.

I was merely commenting that one possible reason to include some sort of interaction during the take-down is to help them avoid becoming repetitive.

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 05:23
The funny thing is that I'm actually more against takedowns than for them. :p Except for the one where he taps the guy on the shoulder and sucker punches him. I'm never going to get tired of that one.

Rindill the Red
5th Nov 2010, 05:29
The funny thing is that I'm actually more against takedowns than for them. :p Except for the one where he taps the guy on the shoulder and sucker punches him. I'm never going to get tired of that one.

Lol. That's my favorite by far too, and what I'm basing most of my optimism off of.

I like the personality injected into that take down... it's really somewhat Bond-like (before Royale).

That's an interesting concept, if the personality of the character infuses the take-downs, and you control what personal characteristics of Jensen are most prominent... then would the game change the take-downs to match your play-style? That would actually be pretty cool.

You play an aggressive angry character, and your take-downs are fast and violent.

You play an almost entirely stealth based character, and your take-downs are silent, quick, and graceful.

You play a suave talker, and your take-downs have as much personality as your communication.

You play a hacker and you... well... your take-downs are nerdy.

BigBoss
5th Nov 2010, 05:31
You get to choose your dialogue... so no, it is not a cut-scene, it is interactive.

And I'm not against third person take-downs, or the third-person/first-person mix. I actually think I'll rather enjoy it.

I was merely commenting that one possible reason to include some sort of interaction during the take-down is to help them avoid becoming repetitive.

Like the same kind of thing for the reload in gears? I could see that.....then if you miss the punch, it initiates a brawl or an alarm. But then again, you wouldn't feel very badass would you? I mean batman never misses his punches is all i'm sayin.

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 05:33
Batman can't always be completely quiet, though. If you attack someone head-on in Arkham Asylum, it makes a lot of noise. Then again, Batman never screws up his silent takedowns, either.
But still, Batman is Batman. He's on a completely different level.


That's an interesting concept, if the personality of the character infuses the take-downs, and you control what personal characteristics of Jensen are most prominent... then would the game change the take-downs to match your play-style? That would actually be pretty cool. Well, when it comes to violence and brutality, there's a huge gap between the lethal and non-lethal takedowns, from what we've seen. That's probably the closest the game is going to get. :hmm:

BigBoss
5th Nov 2010, 05:41
Batman can't always be completely quiet, though. If you attack someone head-on in Arkham Asylum, it makes a lot of noise. Then again, Batman never screws up his silent takedowns, either.
But still, Batman is Batman. He's on a completely different level.

Well, when it comes to violence and brutality, there's a huge gap between the lethal and non-lethal takedowns, from what we've seen. That's probably the closest the game is going to get. :hmm:

There HAS to be non lethal takedowns, how else would you get through the game? I hope it's not just "Here's a tranq gun!! There, we covered stealth" That would be extremely disapointing

OwlSolar
5th Nov 2010, 05:45
Huh? I know there are non-lethal takedowns. I'm just saying that the lethal takedowns look like they'll be far more violent and brutal.

Rindill the Red
5th Nov 2010, 05:47
There HAS to be non lethal takedowns, how else would you get through the game? I hope it's not just "Here's a tranq gun!! There, we covered stealth" That would be extremely disapointing

Have you read the stickies yet? Non-lethal take-downs are all but completely confirmed for the game. In the demo reels they demonstrate both. In fact, I believe they've mentioned the mechanic too. You press down (the trigger?) all the way to kill, and you press it down some of the way for a non-lethal.

BigBoss
5th Nov 2010, 05:50
Have you read the stickies yet? Non-lethal take-downs are all but completely confirmed for the game. In the demo reels they demonstrate both. In fact, I believe they've mentioned the mechanic too. You press down (the trigger?) all the way to kill, and you press it down some of the way for a non-lethal.

That's good, but i'm a little worried about that....what if i'm in a tense situation and I pull the trigger hard accidentally? I think it would be a little better if they were just separate buttons.

btw I don't read stickies, I sometimes find info that I don't want to know, namely plot elements.

oscarMike
5th Nov 2010, 10:21
I think when it comes to free running games, first person is way better. Assassins creed would sometimes get messy at tight points when the computer would decide which ledge you were going to jump onto next, but I didn't have that problem in mirrors edge because you had far more control.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-kVnw4RA80&feature=channel

In that case this could be interesting! It resembles Mirrors a lot, have something like parkour moments, shootouts..
It also looks extra cool..(watch some gameplay too)


Many other games have takedowns. I don't see people calling those cutscenes.

Whenever I played Batman, not once did I feel I was out of control! Even when there was like 10 guys around me it was always through my control and skill that I overcome the situation!

Anyway, you say that it has to have more than a perspective change! Well it does. What happens is you sneak up to an npc, press a button and then you observe in different view for 5 seconds: Adam walking slowly towards the npc, then he grabs him, pulls out his blades, stabs him trough spine, pulls them back; and then you're in control again! It's even worse and more absurd when you are doing double takedown. I remember playing Riddick it required interaction, skill, precision and flawless timing to execute a successful takedown. So it's not just a different perspective.. but at this moment I really wish it was.

OwlSolar
6th Nov 2010, 05:17
Of course, if you're ever surrounded by ten guys in a shooter, then you're doing something wrong.

And tell me, what did you just describe? All I got from that was a perspective change. You didn't seem to describe anything else. I keep seeing whining about this being non-interactive, or that you have no control. This is nothing new. There are a lot of games that take away control for brief moments. Let's go back to Batman. The game takes away control when you're strangling someone or snapping their leg. I don't see anyone calling those cutscenes.

BigBoss
6th Nov 2010, 05:31
Every conversation is instantly 10 times better when you add batman to it....and you're right Owl, I personally just like watching batman do his thing to the criminals during those, uh, whatever you guys end up calling them.

Badmaker
6th Nov 2010, 06:19
yeah its better, and the takedowns idea for DX was a fail from the start.

Ninjerk
6th Nov 2010, 08:21
I would agree that the dialogue portions in DX were cutscenes or cutscene-ish at least (although I tend not to mind them while playing).

The perspective change by itself doesn't bother me if it's used to make up for the fact that video games can't simulate certain aspects of touch, leverage, etc. that you might need if you're going to do an e.g. MMA type takedown. Unfortunately this isn't the point of the perspective change in DX:HR.


There are a lot of games that take away control for brief moments.

I don't see other games doing this or that by itself as a good reason to do anything.

oscarMike
6th Nov 2010, 12:04
Of course, if you're ever surrounded by ten guys in a shooter, then you're doing something wrong.

And tell me, what did you just describe? All I got from that was a perspective change. You didn't seem to describe anything else. I keep seeing whining about this being non-interactive, or that you have no control. This is nothing new. There are a lot of games that take away control for brief moments. Let's go back to Batman. The game takes away control when you're strangling someone or snapping their leg. I don't see anyone calling those cutscenes.

You're missing the point mate! What I'm trying to say is that: while playing batman (in TP view), in order to successfully participate in melee combat you are required to articulate your movement, have precise timing, reflexes and some basic skill too(point is, you are in total control over the outcome, and if you're to slow or your timing ain't right you get a hit in the head ).. also your view wont change when you're doing takedowns...

In DX:HR it seems that only thing you need to do is be close enough to npc!!.. then you press a button, cut-scene is triggered, perspective change and in 5 seconds it's done!.. no skill needed(of your own, not in-game skill), no timing and no interaction of your own in battle.. also no penalty and no chance of mistake.

Major difference! In one scene of DX:HR gameplay, we see how Adam storms toward the guard (frontally) and press a single button which allows him in "takedown" to beat the crap out of guard...
You could't do that in Arkham Asylum!

I see what you're trying to point out! It is similar!!! But from this point, to me it does look a bit simplistic, non-interactive and resembles a cut-scene ... that's what I'm trying to say.

OwlSolar
6th Nov 2010, 22:27
You're missing the point mate! What I'm trying to say is that: while playing batman (in TP view), in order to successfully participate in melee combat you are required to articulate your movement, have precise timing, reflexes and some basic skill too(point is, you are in total control over the outcome, and if you're to slow or your timing ain't right you get a hit in the head ).. also your view wont change when you're doing takedowns... I agree with the first part. But what do you mean by your last sentence? :scratch:


In DX:HR it seems that only thing you need to do is be close enough to npc!!..
It was exactly the same in Arkham Asylum. As soon as you got close to anyone, they were completely screwed.


then you press a button, cut-scene is triggered, perspective change and in 5 seconds it's done!..
Did you even read my posts? No wait, let me rephrase that. Did you even understand my posts? My entire argument is that it's not a cutscene, and that perspective change does not make i a cutscene.


no skill needed(of your own, not in-game skill), no timing and no interaction of your own in battle.. also no penalty and no chance of mistake. Again, I don't see how it's any different in Batman. Once you got close to someone, they were dead (figuritively speaking).
And for the record, the "brawler" portions or Arkham Asylum do not have anything to do with this conversation. At no point in Deus Ex will you ever come into a situation like the many parts where you're in fisticuffs with ten thugs. There will however, be many parts where there are many guards with guns, similar to the stealth sections in Arkham Asylum. Which basically completely invalidates your point about skill in melee combat and being surrounded by ten thugs or whatever.


Major difference! In one scene of DX:HR gameplay, we see how Adam storms toward the guard (frontally) and press a single button which allows him in "takedown" to beat the crap out of guard...
You could't do that in Arkham Asylum!
:scratch: ...What? I've done that many, many times.


I see what you're trying to point out! It is similar!!! But from this point, to me it does look a bit simplistic, non-interactive and resembles a cut-scene ... that's what I'm trying to say.
Takedowns in many games are simplistic and non-interactive, including Batman. Why are those not cutscenes? :)


I don't see other games doing this or that by itself as a good reason to do anything.
Again, you're completely missing my point. My point is that you don't call those cutscenes. I'm not trying to justify or support takedowns, I'm just saying that calling them cutscenes is stupid.

BigBoss
7th Nov 2010, 06:13
Again, you're completely missing my point. My point is that you don't call those cutscenes. I'm not trying to justify or support takedowns, I'm just saying that calling them cutscenes is stupid.

agreed

Rindill the Red
7th Nov 2010, 15:45
Again, you're completely missing my point. My point is that you don't call those cutscenes. I'm not trying to justify or support takedowns, I'm just saying that calling them cutscenes is stupid.

Cut-scene: a sequence in a video game over which the player has no control, often breaking up the gameplay...

1. Player has no control
2. Breaking up gameplay...

OwlSolar
7th Nov 2010, 20:04
Citation needed.