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Pretentious Old Man.
26th Sep 2010, 09:53
That's right, folks, get ready for another nebulous, analytical POM thread! :D

Replaying DX1, I can't help but wonder at how truly excellent the sound design is. Really, marvellous. I play lots of other games from the era, and I realise just how far ahead of its time DX was in this respect, as well as others, of course. When I was playing it muted on the train the other day, I actually had to turn it off, because I realised that the experience was not the same.

Why? Well, even aside from the (in my opinion excellent) music and dialogue, if you analyse the original's sound design, it's EXTREMELY immersive. Sure, there are a few weird anomalies (like throwing a chair and getting a noise like throwing a cardboard box, for example), but overall I think it stands alone with Half-Life and Thief in truly giving an awesome set of sounds for various actions. Sound quality is good, sound numbers are diverse. Above all, of course, sound is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT. Make a loud noise? Yeah, your enemies can hear it too. That's what made carelessly walking over a metal bridge so stomach-crunching. It's what made carelessly dropping something only to have a "huh?" voice come in so very tense. It's what made crouching virtually everywhere, and barely hearing those soft footfalls, so exciting.

What I'm trying to say is, I hope DXHR's sound design is as good or better. A lot of modern games can be quite lazy here, only doing the bare minimum. (obviously there are exceptions, like Dead Space and Bioshock for example, both of which were brilliant at this).

Who r b with me? :)

Bluey71
26th Sep 2010, 10:08
Replaying DX1, I can't help but wonder at how truly excellent the sound design is. Really, marvellous. I play lots of other games from the era, and I realise just how far ahead of its time DX was in this respect, as well as others, of course. When I was playing it muted on the train the other day, I actually had to turn it off, because I realised that the experience was not the same.

Why? Well, even aside from the (in my opinion excellent) music and dialogue, if you analyse the original's sound design, it's EXTREMELY immersive. Sure, there are a few weird anomalies (like throwing a chair and getting a noise like throwing a cardboard box, for example), but overall I think it stands alone with Half-Life and Thief in truly giving an awesome set of sounds for various actions.

It's funny you mention those games in relation to their quality of sound - I think exactly the same. There are so many memories of DX and one is definitely the sound of boots on metal walkways...



Sound quality is good, sound numbers are diverse. Above all, of course, sound is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT. Make a loud noise? Yeah, your enemies can hear it too. That's what made carelessly walking over a metal bridge so stomach-crunching. It's what made carelessly dropping something only to have a "huh?" voice come in so very tense. It's what made crouching virtually everywhere, and barely hearing those soft footfalls, so exciting.

Exactly. Good thoughtful sound is all a part of it. Between good and bad sound sound, you can draw comparisons between a TPS and lean keys. One immerses you into the games world, the other doesn't.


What I'm trying to say is, I hope DXHR's sound design is as good or better. A lot of modern games can be quite lazy here, only doing the bare minimum.

Yeah well, think I've made stand on laziness quite clear with re to DX:HR. Looking at everything else they have done the natural assupmtion would be, no. But who really knows.

Hammich
26th Sep 2010, 10:41
... I just want to play Thief 4 now

xsamitt
26th Sep 2010, 12:53
That's right, folks, get ready for another nebulous, analytical POM thread! :D

Replaying DX1, I can't help but wonder at how truly excellent the sound design is. Really, marvellous. I play lots of other games from the era, and I realise just how far ahead of its time DX was in this respect, as well as others, of course. When I was playing it muted on the train the other day, I actually had to turn it off, because I realised that the experience was not the same.

Why? Well, even aside from the (in my opinion excellent) music and dialogue, if you analyse the original's sound design, it's EXTREMELY immersive. Sure, there are a few weird anomalies (like throwing a chair and getting a noise like throwing a cardboard box, for example), but overall I think it stands alone with Half-Life and Thief in truly giving an awesome set of sounds for various actions. Sound quality is good, sound numbers are diverse. Above all, of course, sound is ACTUALLY IMPORTANT. Make a loud noise? Yeah, your enemies can hear it too. That's what made carelessly walking over a metal bridge so stomach-crunching. It's what made carelessly dropping something only to have a "huh?" voice come in so very tense. It's what made crouching virtually everywhere, and barely hearing those soft footfalls, so exciting.

What I'm trying to say is, I hope DXHR's sound design is as good or better. A lot of modern games can be quite lazy here, only doing the bare minimum. (obviously there are exceptions, like Dead Space and Bioshock for example, both of which were brilliant at this).

Who r b with me? :)

From one old man to another.....You are more right than you even realize.I believe alot of people like DX1 so much is because of the music/sounds.....and the vibe you get.Which is why I was not happy having learnt AB wouldn't be the man doing the sound/music again.I feel this is a big mistake even though the new guy is very talented.It's akin to getting someone else to play Eric Claptons guitar solos.He may hit the notes but the original vibe is lost.That's not to say I want the same music in DX3....I DON'T,the same as I don't want Eric to keep releasing the same CD over and over.But want I had wanted was new music/sounds from the same source.

beastrn
26th Sep 2010, 13:37
I still maintain that you can easily identify good games from bad games by how good their soundtracks are.

Generic orchestra? Generic war symphony? Gotta be a console shooter! :)

lithos
26th Sep 2010, 13:46
This is why I asked about what sound API HR would be using in the questions for EM thread. This aspect of game design is the most interesting to me. And, sadly, one of the most neglected. MW2 has some of the WORST sound mixing in a game I've played. You can clearly hear a machine gun that's a forty metres away like it was right next to your head, from any angle, but in certain situations you won't be able to hear to your squadmate who's standing five yards away when all else is quiet.

The first time I played DX, it was one a Toshiba 2230 laptop, with an 800x600 passive screen. And I still had to use software rendering, the bare minimum settings, in a window, but, dammit, it had a full-on Sensaura sound card. Man, every time I ran DX, that little Sensaura splash and chord would run, and it meant AWESOME.

HRTF and 3DPA. Look it up. While DX still sorta supports it, it's pretty simply done. Deus Ex with Sensaura was spookily immersive through headphones. Half-Life with Aureal A3D was even better.

Of course, the blame for the current state of gaming audio can be squarely laid at one company's feet: Creative Technology. One of the most ironic names ever.

TrickyVein
26th Sep 2010, 14:30
Funny...perhaps from a sound-design perspective you'd be right, but most of my experience with DX's sound has been the result of truly crappy sound-engineering which makes everything sound "crushed" and more often than not. :hmm:

Pinky_Powers
26th Sep 2010, 14:37
Funny...perhaps from a sound-design perspective you'd be right, but most of my experience with DX's sound has been the result of truly crappy sound-engineering which makes everything sound "crushed" and more often than not. :hmm:

I think I know what you mean. There is a kind of crudeness to the final sound. But I rarely ever notice it. It's as you say, the design of the sound, it elevates my experience to something far and grand. It immerses me without pity.

Facebyface
26th Sep 2010, 14:39
I still maintain that you can easily identify good games from bad games by how good their soundtracks are.

Untrue. There are some truly epic soundtracks on bad games and some good games with generic soundtracks. But then again, subject of good sound or a good game is open to interpretation.

lithos
26th Sep 2010, 14:43
I still maintain that you can easily identify good games from bad games by how good their soundtracks are.

I don't hold much hope for Call of Duty: Black Ops or Medal of Honor, either...

Mindmute
26th Sep 2010, 14:45
I absolutely agree. The sound design made a few moments of the game from me and I still think DX has one of the best soundtracks of any games I've played.

A game I'd compare to it as far as sound quality is Stalker, not the effects or soundtrack, but the ambience the background audio provides (at least in the Stalker Complete 2009 mod, I've never played it unmodded as I am rather new to the series) is an amazing immersion tool with a good pair of headphones that completely block out the outside world.

beastrn
26th Sep 2010, 15:02
Untrue. There are some truly epic soundtracks on bad games and some good games with generic soundtracks. But then again, subject of good sound or a good game is open to interpretation.

Examples, champ?

Facebyface
26th Sep 2010, 15:23
Examples, champ?

I never found the music of the Ratchet and Clank series to be outstanding, but it's still my favorite series on the PS2.

NKD
26th Sep 2010, 15:28
I still maintain that you can easily identify good games from bad games by how good their soundtracks are.

Generic orchestra? Generic war symphony? Gotta be a console shooter! :)

The fantastic Bear McCreary (BSG) did the soundtrack for Dark Void, but that game was a smoldering pile. A good soundtrack, I think, is a sign that the developers cared about their project and didn't forget the little stuff. Unfortunately you can still ship a huge pile with the best intentions.

It's icing on the cake really, and the subjective nature of what makes a fun game or enjoyable music makes it really hard to use that as any kind of serious indicator.

But on the other hand, sound design goes far beyond the music tracks themselves, and those aspects are far less subjective than music, and I agree with POM that they should not be ignored. Things like walking on a surface making a believable sound, or lack of sound as the case may be. Weapon sounds are also really important. A lot of games have really underwhelming sounds for weapons that make them seem like plastic toys, not military hardware.

I hope DXHR can live up to what some other games have done in that regard.

beastrn
26th Sep 2010, 15:30
I never found the music of the Ratchet and Clank series to be outstanding, but it's still my favorite series on the PS2.

That's it? You state that what I said it "Untrue." based on a personal preference of one mediocre game? HMMMMM. STILL VALID.

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Sep 2010, 16:17
Weapon sounds are also really important. A lot of games have really underwhelming sounds for weapons that make them seem like plastic toys, not military hardware.

THIS^^, 100%.

Again, I'm looking at CoD here. Damn, MW2 was awful with its sound mixing, and recording in general.

And indeed, I also got the impression that most of DX's sounds were recorded using some pretty primitive equipment. Nonetheless, the actual samples themselves were excellent, and there were many of them.

Facebyface
26th Sep 2010, 16:21
That's it? You state that what I said it "Untrue." based on a personal preference of one mediocre game? HMMMMM. STILL VALID.

You call it mediocre, I call it great. As I said, preference of music and games varies from person to person. I could say that I think DX: IW has fantastic music but I don't. I find it as just kind of there. It's really impossible to argue definitively.

JCpies
26th Sep 2010, 16:37
The only thing I hated about it, was the fact I blew up a load of petrol barrels, only to hear the guard say 'Did you hear something? I must've been imagining things'.

AlexOfSpades
26th Sep 2010, 16:42
I cant disagree with anyone here about the sounds.

But i must say that, above all, there were two things that i loved in the audio part of the game:

1st: The pistol sound. Damn it was crude and loud, sounded like i was firing a f** real pistol. Not like the "pop" from HL's Glock 17. Since i'm more of a gunslinger, i used the pistol to the very end of the game. And half of my love for it, was because of the sound it made.

2nd: The soundtrack. It had the Unreal system of "interactive" music. When exploring, it was a calm tune ; Then, when someone detected you, the music beat went faster, (so did your heart), until the combat started, when a frenetic tune starts and you almost sweat yourself when that MJ12 Commando fires his double machine guns.

I cant mention the audio without remembering of Paris. I was almost shooting Nicollette just to hear that super tune.

Bam bam bam dududududidi duu pam. pararam pam..!

EIDOS, please put the interactive musics again!

I have part of the Deus Ex soundtrack on my mp3 player (including the Paris one, op couz~)

TrickyVein
26th Sep 2010, 16:59
The sound of the assault-rifle was horrendously subdued by comparison. I can't bring to mind the sound the pistol made, by I can bring to mind that of the sniper-rifle. The plasma-rifle's firing noise was ballsy as well.

Ninjerk
26th Sep 2010, 17:07
THIS^^, 100%.

Again, I'm looking at CoD here. Damn, MW2 was awful with its sound mixing, and recording in general.

And indeed, I also got the impression that most of DX's sounds were recorded using some pretty primitive equipment. Nonetheless, the actual samples themselves were excellent, and there were many of them.

I wish more movies and video games sounded like Heat and Collateral when it comes to gun sounds. Most guns don't feel threatening in video games. I think, although I can't attest to their "realism," certain weapons in Counter-strike they really got right. The AWP booms out across the map, and anyone who's played CS or CS:S for any length of time knows exactly what's in store for them if they didn't see one of their teammates buy an AWP. Same thing for the barking AK.

AlexOfSpades
26th Sep 2010, 17:23
The plasma rifle sound sounded... plasmatic.

Heh, i have no idea how would be the sound of such weapon.

One thing that i didnt liked about the assault rifle was the lack of a single shot. I could only fire at controlled bursts. :S

For me, the weapon sounds must be loud. The bigger the bullet, the louder the sound.

Shotguns and sniper rifles must sound mean, almost like a thunder.

Oh! Perhaps adding a little bit of echo in the sound would make it go more "powerful" perhaps?

Or would it be just a crappy effect?

hem dazon 90
26th Sep 2010, 17:24
For once I think you're right POM, like some of my favorite games have really bad sound design.

Slack
26th Sep 2010, 17:30
Yeah old man! You're correct! The sound was so well planned that if you drop something (like a lockpick, for example) on the ground, depending of what ambient you are, if it causes echo, the enemies can hear it! And go there to check! (AI + awesome sound design). The ambient cyber punk music was very good too: it wasn't sounded too artistically pretentious or forced to be epic... it just sound kind'a natural and very, very immersive. A Excellent sound design is essential for a excellent game.

Ilves
26th Sep 2010, 18:09
There was this problem that bugs me to this very day...

http://maddrhythms.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tap_shoes.jpg

hem dazon 90
26th Sep 2010, 18:24
There was this problem that bugs me to this very day...

http://maddrhythms.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tap_shoes.jpg


That's thief

pringlepower
26th Sep 2010, 18:59
That's it? You state that what I said it "Untrue." based on a personal preference of one mediocre game? HMMMMM. STILL VALID.

You based your argument on a personal preference of one good game? HMMMMM

Anyways there are plenty who don't consider Myst games "games", and instead interactive slideshows, but they have some of the best ambient and soundtrack music I've ever heard.

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Sep 2010, 19:01
That's thief

That's terror.

NKD
26th Sep 2010, 19:15
That's terror.

Within six months.

Pretentious Old Man.
26th Sep 2010, 19:23
Within six months.

No, Savage.

Desperate. Your turn.

xsamitt
26th Sep 2010, 19:29
terror built into the system ...911 anyone?

zombieturtle01
26th Sep 2010, 19:45
dialogue


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To2KassxUeE

Pinky_Powers
26th Sep 2010, 21:21
There was this problem that bugs me to this very day...

http://maddrhythms.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/tap_shoes.jpg

:lmao:

Yes! That was/is terrible. :D

beastrn
26th Sep 2010, 22:51
You based your argument on a personal preference of one good game? HMMMMM

Anyways there are plenty who don't consider Myst games "games", and instead interactive slideshows, but they have some of the best ambient and soundtrack music I've ever heard.

Anyway, Myst is great. +1 to my formula. :whistle:

Good music/sound = good game
Bad music/sound = bad game

Prove me wrong!

Blade_hunter
27th Sep 2010, 00:14
No, Savage.

Desperate. Your turn.

Desperate

Mindmute
27th Sep 2010, 00:18
Desperate

Get the hell out of here, Denton!

Blade_hunter
27th Sep 2010, 00:23
A bomb !
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/5438/2iazjuv.png

AlexOfSpades
27th Sep 2010, 01:42
Deus Ex HR needs a theme.

Maybe not a "menu theme", but a tune that when you think about the game, you remember of that music. Some classic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEKDF_WbMlg) games have such remarkable songs (Maybe battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9LrE6dRHn8) tunes, or specific stage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YWfb3ti4V8) songs)...

... Or just a remix of an original (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1oxIrAX39M) one.


Each one of those songs above bring me such memories. Ah! Something that only true gamers understand.

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 01:53
Anyway, Myst is great. +1 to my formula. :whistle:

Good music/sound = good game
Bad music/sound = bad game

Prove me wrong!

Well there is an adventure game called Total Distortion which had an interesting premise but ultimately convoluted gameplay that just wasn't that fun. It was definitely weird though. Oh, and one of the earliest game deaths causes this to happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6iT-lMgfAI

Also I don't consider the Tales of... games to be particularly good, but my friend is obsessed with them, so I have quite a bit of exposure to the games, and they all have good music. Anyways Tales of Legendia is apparently especially bad, but the soundtrack is just great.

beastrn
27th Sep 2010, 02:11
+2 to my formula. That Total Distortion sounds like rubbish (gameplay and music/sound), and the Tales of series is amazing and has great music.

beastrn
27th Sep 2010, 02:15
Great selection Alex (besides Mario) - Epic Mega Games always had the best (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWHu79H6kdM) music for their games.

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 02:32
Great selection Alex (besides Mario) - Epic Mega Games always had the best (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWHu79H6kdM) music for their games.

Oh that brings back the memories...

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 02:41
I still think Jesper Kyd's scores for the Hitman games were the best score I've heard for a game. The combination of the apocalyptic choral and orchestral music with morally ambiguous atonal music (a perfect aural metaphor for the game,) is genius.

Of course, if you want epic, there's really only man: Frank Klepacki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_qPFFem6UU&feature=related

Serendip1ty
27th Sep 2010, 03:24
Almost everybody thinks DX did a mighty fine job on the sound departement including me...

But what about the forgotten child:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Dxinvwar.jpg

It had the same people responsible (for the most part) but apart from the title music & the cairo themes I have to admit not much has stuck with me... & i completed it twice.

FrankCSIS
27th Sep 2010, 03:31
+2 to my formula

Grim Fandango.

+3 to your formula. Hell, +100 to your formula. Has there ever been such a great combination of awesome soundtrack, flawless voice acting, and really good sound effects? I still dream of Nick Virago's voice, and wake up with a 3-hour-lasting boner.

"I have a gun, Manuel. If I were you, I'd keep my jaaaaaaw shut".

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 04:52
Sigh. The days when Lucasarts made great games, instead of churning out nerdbait cash-ins.

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 05:16
Sigh. The days when Lucasarts made great games, instead of churning out nerdbait cash-ins.

Making more classic adventure games today would be nerdbait cash-ins too.

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 05:47
Making more classic adventure games today would be nerdbait cash-ins too.

What, more so than Star Wars? Star Wars has about a ten-year head start on Adventure games.

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 05:49
What, more so than Star Wars? Star Wars has about a ten-year head start on Adventure games.

Just saying, the only reason to start releasing adventure games again is to cash in on nostalgia.

Yeah Star Wars is a cash-in. But they're still quality games. People won't just buy crappy games for the franchise. Nerds are especially defensive of the franchise (*cough* deus ex *cough*).

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 05:56
Yeah Star Wars is a cash-in. But they're still quality games.

Quality? Star Wars?

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 06:08
Quality? Star Wars?

Yes.

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 06:14
Yeah. Who needs originality?

pringlepower
27th Sep 2010, 06:42
Yeah. Who needs originality?

You're right. Why not just copy a bunch of conspiracies and write a loose story around them?

teehee.

lithos
27th Sep 2010, 07:24
You're right. Why not just copy a bunch of conspiracies and write a loose story around them?

teehee.

Loose? Really? You haven't played Deus Ex, have you?

Because no one's done it before? Because despite that, they're still creating an original world for the characters to inhabit, rather than looking up in the Star Wars to find out what colour lightsabre Darth Interchangeable would use?

And in the end, you're still copying a bunch of movies that were ripped off from the Westerns, and samurai films.

xsamitt
27th Sep 2010, 13:31
Almost everybody thinks DX did a mighty fine job on the sound departement including me...

But what about the forgotten child:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Dxinvwar.jpg

It had the same people responsible (for the most part) but apart from the title music & the cairo themes I have to admit not much has stuck with me... & i completed it twice.

I can't remember any music fron DX2....For me it was very forgettable in many respects.The one thing I do remember is how lame the main character was........what ever his name was.

TrickyVein
27th Sep 2010, 13:47
Wait, no.

DX's strength was not it's sounds, not by a long shot. Sounds are separate from music - which was well done. Sounds are also separate from voice acting - which was not so great across the board. Main characters, like JC, some others, were well acted, but the entirety of France was laughably bad. Sounds are those in-game effects, which as some have pointed out, included powerful-gunshots as well as tap-dancing feet. If one considers the whole gamut of sound-effects within the game I think the majority of them were not so great. Some more examples:

That horrible "clanging" sound of metal on metal whenever you swung your crowbar against something hard; That horrible "tinny" sound made by swinging a sword against a hard surface; breakable crates are made out of balsa-wood; the high-pitched, hollow sound that decorative objects made hitting the floor.

When talking about in-game sounds, one is not talking about music, or voice acting, but primarily sound-effects. And one must consider the above examples, as well as others I have not mentioned if one wants to be honest.

hem dazon 90
27th Sep 2010, 19:28
Loose? Really? You haven't played Deus Ex, have you?

Because no one's done it before? Because despite that, they're still creating an original world for the characters to inhabit, rather than looking up in the Star Wars to find out what colour lightsabre Darth Interchangeable would use?

And in the end, you're still copying a bunch of movies that were ripped off from the Westerns, and samurai films.

Yeah loose Deus ex (compared to ther games with great stories) falls flat.

AlexOfSpades
27th Sep 2010, 20:02
Games with great stories...

... such as?


Great selection Alex (besides Mario) - Epic Mega Games always had the best (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWHu79H6kdM) music for their games.

Oh, and i thought that the Mario tune would be praised, and the rest would be ignored o.o


Video Games Live should play the DX theme!

Pretentious Old Man.
27th Sep 2010, 23:07
Wait, no.

DX's strength was not it's sounds, not by a long shot. Sounds are separate from music - which was well done. Sounds are also separate from voice acting - which was not so great across the board. Main characters, like JC, some others, were well acted, but the entirety of France was laughably bad. Sounds are those in-game effects, which as some have pointed out, included powerful-gunshots as well as tap-dancing feet. If one considers the whole gamut of sound-effects within the game I think the majority of them were not so great. Some more examples:

That horrible "clanging" sound of metal on metal whenever you swung your crowbar against something hard; That horrible "tinny" sound made by swinging a sword against a hard surface; breakable crates are made out of balsa-wood; the high-pitched, hollow sound that decorative objects made hitting the floor.

When talking about in-game sounds, one is not talking about music, or voice acting, but primarily sound-effects. And one must consider the above examples, as well as others I have not mentioned if one wants to be honest.

I did consider them, indeed I made passing reference to the less than stellar nature of a number of the physics sounds. However, given the breadth of sound, and the fact that unlike most of today's games, sound actually makes a difference to the gameplay, I fear I cannot agree with you.

Weapon sounds were good, too. I think the main reason the sound department was good was that there was a more-or-less unique sound for a great number of actions. This helps...you guessed it...immersion.

Shralla
27th Sep 2010, 23:09
And in the end, you're still copying a bunch of movies that were ripped off from the Westerns, and samurai films.

"Ripped off" is a pretty powerful term, and is one that doesn't really apply when talking about Star Wars. If you want to follow that logic, Westerns "ripped off" from adventure novels from the 1800s and early 20th century. Not to mention westerns "ripping off" from the same samurai films you're talking about. Nothing is completely original, but there is a huge difference between taking aspects from a bunch of different things, and assembling them into something coherent, and "ripping off" something.

Pretentious Old Man.
27th Sep 2010, 23:25
I've said this many times before here, but Dune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Wars.

AlexOfSpades
27th Sep 2010, 23:36
i've said this many times before here, but dune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> star wars.



Its growing o.o

Pretentious Old Man.
27th Sep 2010, 23:44
Its growing o.o

Dune Wars, Episode V: The Intelligentsia Strike Back.

Shralla
28th Sep 2010, 00:25
I don't think anybody could properly stage an argument that Star Wars is better than Dune. Obviously as a piece of literature it is leagues beyond Star Wars. But Star Wars isn't just about the literature.

Pinky_Powers
28th Sep 2010, 01:12
Well this thread's taken on a weird gimp.

Cronstintein
28th Sep 2010, 02:00
Jumping in late to this party but I just wanna say the only sound I clearly remember from DX1:

Shooting someone with the tranq gun. "Ugh.........ugh.........ugh............ugh..........." <body falling>

pringlepower
28th Sep 2010, 02:24
Jumping in late to this party but I just wanna say the only sound I clearly remember from DX1:

Shooting someone with the tranq gun. "Ugh.........ugh.........ugh............ugh..........." <body falling>

I like how after being shot they randomly ran around, maybe to get some exercise before they fell.

TrickyVein
28th Sep 2010, 02:42
Like "headless chickens" as I recall. Women, all the while, running so much more slowly than the men. So, so sexist.

lithos
28th Sep 2010, 03:03
I still wish Aureal A3D were still around and developing their tech.

Ilves
28th Sep 2010, 05:48
Like "headless chickens" as I recall. Women, all the while, running so much more slowly than the men. So, so sexist.

Wrong. They were running in high heels = max cruising speed -65%. http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/22.gif

Pinky_Powers
28th Sep 2010, 10:36
Wrong. They were running in high heels = max cruising speed -65%. http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/22.gif

Goddamn it, where are those Rollerblade Augs when you need 'em?!

AlexOfSpades
28th Sep 2010, 12:13
Goddamn it, where are those Rollerblade Augs when you need 'em?!

lmao!!

xsamitt
28th Sep 2010, 16:54
Music that any DX fan should enjoy....I sure do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEVUX8FI7zs&a=GxdCwVVULXdONhZCF2ve0HzgZ6DHUAN3&list=ML&playnext=2

hem dazon 90
28th Sep 2010, 18:36
I've said this many times before here, but Dune >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Star Wars.

No **** Sherlock but still star wars is good

Pretentious Old Man.
28th Sep 2010, 18:59
No **** Sherlock but still star wars is good

Clearly you have not been witness to my many, many arguments with SW fanboys, who find it the greatest work of science fiction ever, then.

Trust me, not everyone can see that Star Wars is merely excellent, rather than superlative.

pringlepower
28th Sep 2010, 22:52
Clearly you have not been witness to my many, many arguments with SW fanboys, who find it the greatest work of science fiction ever, then.

Trust me, not everyone can see that Star Wars is merely excellent, rather than superlative.

One thing I didn't like about Dune was how unrelatable the characters are. They're deep and very interesting people, but evidently taking too much spice turns you into a total dick (with Leto II being a prime example).

hem dazon 90
28th Sep 2010, 22:53
Clearly you have not been witness to my many, many arguments with SW fanboys, who find it the greatest work of science fiction ever, then.

Trust me, not everyone can see that Star Wars is merely excellent, rather than superlative.

The greatest work of SF ever is debatable though

hell one of my favorite SF novels ever is the relatively obscure

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SniTwfm5BwE/TCvDTKcqA2I/AAAAAAAACjQ/txaFHv00jdk/s1600/The+Dervish+House+USA.jpg

Senka
29th Sep 2010, 00:37
^ I would buy that if it wasn't $16 for the kindle edition! :@

Could you explain the difference between this version: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dervish-House-ebook/dp/B003XNTTZ8/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=A24IB90LPZJ0BS&qid=1285720548&sr=1-1

and this one: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dervish-House-ebook/dp/B003S9VOS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A24IB90LPZJ0BS&s=digital-text&qid=1285720548&sr=1-1
?

beastrn
29th Sep 2010, 01:34
He has no idea - he just googles all this **** to try and fit in.

hem dazon 90
29th Sep 2010, 01:37
^ I would buy that if it wasn't $16 for the kindle edition! :@

Could you explain the difference between this version: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dervish-House-ebook/dp/B003XNTTZ8/ref=tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&m=A24IB90LPZJ0BS&qid=1285720548&sr=1-1

and this one: http://www.amazon.com/The-Dervish-House-ebook/dp/B003S9VOS2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=A24IB90LPZJ0BS&s=digital-text&qid=1285720548&sr=1-1
?



No clue really. I just read the (American?) watercolour painting cover rather than the "blue" one.


I'd ask around on a dedicated literature board.



He has no idea - he just googles all this **** to try and fit in.

You're source?

Senka
29th Sep 2010, 03:30
Your* (I noticed they had two version of another book with quite a price gap - probably a revised edition)

hem dazon 90
29th Sep 2010, 18:28
Your* (I noticed they had two version of another book with quite a price gap - probably a revised edition)

This early into the release though?

Archy
30th Sep 2010, 23:43
i disagree with the op
deus ex was very lacking in sound, especially in the gun and voice acting department

Pretentious Old Man.
1st Oct 2010, 15:21
i disagree with the op
deus ex was very lacking in sound, especially in the gun and voice acting department

Not in the slightest. Even the voice acting is really quite good given that it's 2000 we're talking about here.

AlexOfSpades
1st Oct 2010, 15:23
Well France and China were laughable. But mostly, it was fantastic for the game's age.

Pretentious Old Man.
1st Oct 2010, 15:30
Well France and China were laughable. But mostly, it was fantastic for the game's age.

True, but even they were not so bad given the game's age, and the fact that they actually bothered to voice the whole, gigantic game the way they did.

AxiomaticBadger
5th Oct 2010, 17:45
There was one sound that drive me insane in DE: The silencer.
Specifically when added to to assault rifle. Hearing a single silenced shot every 10 rounds was a serious immersion breaker.

Comparing dune to starwars is like comparing caramel and steak. Both are good, but for entirely different reasons.
Sure both are science fantasy with internally consistant settings, but that's the only thing they have in common.

pringlepower
6th Oct 2010, 00:18
There was one sound that drive me insane in DE: The silencer.
Specifically when added to to assault rifle. Hearing a single silenced shot every 10 rounds was a serious immersion breaker.

Comparing dune to starwars is like comparing caramel and steak. Both are good, but for entirely different reasons.
Sure both are science fantasy with internally consistant settings, but that's the only thing they have in common.

And sand.

TrickyVein
6th Oct 2010, 00:39
...and giant worm-like creatures that occupy aforementioned sand?

JCDentonMale
6th Oct 2010, 17:38
How many of you actually have the DX 1 complete soundtrack in their playlist ? Just curious. I have. Also the Unreal 1 soundtrack.

MaxxQ1
6th Oct 2010, 17:55
How many of you actually have the DX 1 complete soundtrack in their playlist ? Just curious. I have. Also the Unreal 1 soundtrack.

I have:

DX
Homeworld
The Witcher (also a second folder with Music inspired by The Witcher)
Vampire - The Masquerade: Bloodlines*
X3
Baldur's Gate
music inspired by No One Lives Forever (came with the game)

*Swamped by Lacuna Coil impressed me enough to go out and buy three Lacuna Coil CD's. Still looking for CD's by other artists whose music was used in the game.